It can either be a pre-game thing, that would make you call a game off, or a mid-game thing, where you'd swear to not play them again.

If I was bringing a for-fun list and they were trying to play their ITC power list.

Incomplete/unbuilt miniatures

Putting down a bunch of bases or just the legs on bases and saying "This is my Tactical Squad!" is a no no.

auticus wrote:If I was bringing a for-fun list and they were trying to play their ITC power list.

I'm assuming that'd be only if you had told them it was meant to be a casual game, and not just in general.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Incomplete/unbuilt miniatures

Putting down a bunch of bases or just the legs on bases and saying "This is my Tactical Squad!" is a no no.

Yeah, I getcha.

Back in 7th, it was triple Riptide or Wraithknight lists. Or worse, triple Forge World Riptide lists

Getting rules frequently wrong. There is a player in my area who i've essentially silently black listed from future games, just by the sheer volume of bad information they have. They aren't even a cheater i'd say, just so inherently bad at the game after over two years of playing that the experience is like pulling teeth.

I don't know. I've been playing for over 20 years and I've yet to refuse a game. What's the worse thing that happens if you play someone on a Saturday afternoon at the FLGS?

There is somebody that I don't play any more, sadly one of the few people who ever get around to actually playing at my nearest game store.
1) Exploit lists. If this player is at the table it's with some kind of gimmick that is aimed at making the game unplayable as an opponent, even against first time players. If it's known to be the most broken thing, that's what he has this week and I'm not about buying counter meta models.

2) Delays. Yeah I'll play you (even at events) after some pizza, and a few convos and yeah ok you keep rolling imma go get a soda.

3) Rules gone wrong. Well here we play it this way, right guys (cronies chime in, yeah). Even when the book clearly says otherwise.

 JNAProductions wrote:
It can either be a pre-game thing, that would make you call a game off, or a mid-game thing, where you'd swear to not play them again.

These weren't "swear to not play them again" situations, but I have straight up turned down games against armor-skew lists before. In 5th, I'd just politely decline offers to play against parking lots because I didn't feel like taking triple fire dragons to have a hope of cracking all those tanks. I think conceded pre-game against a knight player at a tournament in 7th once because I didn't have nearly enough anti-tank to threaten it and I didn't feel like going through the motions of unpacking and repacking my army over the course of 2 hours.

But those were more a matter of refusing to play lists rather than people.

Wyldhunt wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
It can either be a pre-game thing, that would make you call a game off, or a mid-game thing, where you'd swear to not play them again.

These weren't "swear to not play them again" situations, but I have straight up turned down games against armor-skew lists before. In 5th, I'd just politely decline offers to play against parking lots because I didn't feel like taking triple fire dragons to have a hope of cracking all those tanks. I think conceded pre-game against a knight player at a tournament in 7th once because I didn't have nearly enough anti-tank to threaten it and I didn't feel like going through the motions of unpacking and repacking my army over the course of 2 hours.

But those were more a matter of refusing to play lists rather than people.

Yeah. Can't blame you for not wanting to play an unfun game.

For me it’s a more abstract thing: simply not understanding that a game, even in a tournament, is meant to be a pleasant pastime. I don’t mind playing great players or exploit lists, but I can’t stand guys that are trying to game every conceivable advantage. It’s seldom the big names that do this, but the local big fish try hards.

I’m not overly keen on rules lawyers either. I interpret rules for a living, I’m not impressed by attempts to argue nonsensical outcomes based on some strained reading of the rules.

It's almost entirely about bad communication for me. I don't mind people playing their power lists so long as they're up-front about what they're doing, but when someone tries to re-interpret a rule in the middle of a game or tries to walk back actions based on something they say they intended and didn't communicate or something like that I stop finding the experience fun.

Known for cheating
Being someone I already know I don't enjoy gaming with for whatever reason
Extensive proxies/non-WYSIWYG stuff concerning your special/heavy/vehicle weapons.
Being "That Guy" who thinks it's reasonable to shoot via areal tips etc.
Expecting me to adhere to tourney rules/suggestions outside of tourneys.

1. past personal experience.

I know of a player who is generally not welcome at our FLGS group who has a history of cheating going all the way back to 4th ed as well as being an antagonistic person to game with. i will never willingly play a game with him involved.

2. List tailoring or otherwise obvious abusive power gaming.

Example-in 7th ed if you dropped a terminator deathstar on the table in a casual game i would just concede, pick up my stuff, and find somebody else to play games with.

For most games, I only refuse if I know the person is a jerk from previous experience. And I avoid known cheaters.

However, when it comes to 40K, I prefer to play with a very small group of well-known folks (my brother, my sons and a handful of vetted mutual friends). I've had too many bad experiences from a local club who hangs out at the FLGS. I also will not play someone at a convention or in a tourney game.

Eh I've got no problem with power gaming as there is nothing stopping me doing it too. I'd prefer to play against a fluffy army than a cheesy one but I'll do it.

Extensive proxying. I won't be too stickler for cool proxies. This M1Abrams is a Leman Russ? Cool. That bottle is not a Carnifex though. I'm also not too much of a stickler for complete or even painted models. I can accept a stack of legs as the latest and greatest unit, especially if they are painting before construction, but not a whole army of incompleteness.

But I'm willing to play against someone who's enthusiastic. That'll make me forgive a lot. Wrongly read rules, misunderstading how things gel, mis understanding the spirit of the game is all part and parcel of learning.

My 100% decider on blacklisting is hygiene. Sure we can't all smell like roses all the time but FFS. Even if you've just got to hit yourself with some Axe and have some chewing gum before the game you don't have to be a stereotype.

Someone has a fully painted nazi or communist style army. Only type of person I would never play.

 Stormonu wrote:
For most games, I only refuse if I know the person is a jerk from previous experience. And I avoid known cheaters.

However, when it comes to 40K, I prefer to play with a very small group of well-known folks (my brother, my sons and a handful of vetted mutual friends). I've had too many bad experiences from a local club who hangs out at the FLGS. I also will not play someone at a convention or in a tourney game.

Same. In previous editions of 40k, you could relatively comfortably get a game with a stranger. Even if it was a "hard" list, you generally had a good idea of what they were capable of and what to look out for. Nowadays, 40k has fallen too much into the ol' "Muhahaha! You've activated my trap card!" type of game where you can have literally no idea what you are going up against, even with two otherwise identical armies.

My time is finite, I have no shame in saying I will only play friends or vet someone before even considering to play them. I have no time for people who simply want to stroke their own fragile egos with the latest netlist that their favourite waifu tourney winner just used when I can play amongst friends.

The only time I refuse to play someone, is if it is a person I do not like.

Other than that, have at it. I never take the game that seriously, if someone has proxies or ork armies with lots of non-gw models. Doesn't bug me in the slightest.

Bad odor, bad manners, cheaters and ITC power lists (especially those non-interactive lists that hide the entire group inside the ground level of a ruin)

They play Space Marines.

feth that book(s)

some of you lot sound great fun to play against. I think only filthy hygiene and manners would put me off. for so called casual players some of you sure do not like losing

 Bosskelot wrote:
They play Space Marines.

feth that book(s)

given how common marine armies are you must not get many games.

Referencing 4chan memes and buzzwords.

Dai wrote:
Referencing 4chan memes and buzzwords.

What about 1d4chan memes and buzzwords?

Elfric wrote:some of you lot sound great fun to play against. I think only filthy hygiene and manners would put me off. for so called casual players some of you sure do not like losing

It's not about losing - it's about enjoying the game. I'd be pretty liberal with my "not playing you again"-hammer, but luckily, everyone I've played recently has been an exceptionally good *person* first and foremost. The winning and losing doesn't factor in on if they're a pleasant person to play against - I'm honestly willing to overlook hygiene if they're a genuinely pleasant and charming person.

So, not cheating, playing to enjoy the game, friendly - those are my baseline requirements.

I don't play with portuguese people.


Ok now being serious, loud people is the worst. When you are playing in a tournament and you ear more that guy playing 3 tables away from you than your own mind, is horrible, if hes playing agaisnt you? I can't bear that, I end up with a horrible headache.

I'd refuse playing if one (or more) of the following scenarios is applied:

1) I personally dislike the guy.

2) I've brought SW and the opponent has an imperium army (I don't play imperium vs imperium, it's not a matter of game balance)

3) The opponent insists in using proxies that aren't compatible with the original models in size/dimensions or cool conversions, but just something like cans and bottles instead of tanks or the old ghaz instead of the new one. .

4) The opponent insists on playing with house rules I'm not familiar with.

5) I've already played a game, it's late and I don't have time to play a second time.

 Blackie wrote:
... or the old ghaz instead of the new one.

Hold up. You'd refuse to play someone using this:


That seems a bit extreme. I mean if they're trying to use this guy as Ghaz, sure, but the last version is a no-go for you?

Would you deny a game to someone who owns original Wraithguard? What about someone using the first Talos GW made? None of them are exactly the same size as the current ones.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
They play Space Marines.

feth that book(s)

given how common marine armies are you must not get many games.

This is what almost killed local 40k in my area before lockdown; people were just not wanting to play vs Marine armies.

 Bosskelot wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
They play Space Marines.

feth that book(s)

given how common marine armies are you must not get many games.

This is what almost killed local 40k in my area before lockdown; people were just not wanting to play vs Marine armies.

Mate of mine, fanatical IH purist, took a look at the IH supplement when it came out. Started laughing in the midst of the store, put it back , runs now custom trait lads.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
... or the old ghaz instead of the new one.

Hold up. You'd refuse to play someone using this:


That seems a bit extreme. I mean if they're trying to use this guy as Ghaz, sure, but the last version is a no-go for you?

Would you deny a game to someone who owns original Wraithguard? What about someone using the first Talos GW made? None of them are exactly the same size as the current ones.

The new ghaz has a 80mm base, the old dude only a 40mm. He's also 4x in volume than the classic ghaz. The old talos has the same base size of the new one, and basically the same dimensions. The old wraithguard are just like old terminators, a bit smaller than the current models and on 25mm bases instead of 40mm so with some attention (aka playing like they were on 40mm) they'd be absolutely legit.

The old ghaz is now good only as a standard meganobz, which is what I'll also do.

Not played since 7th, hoping to start again in 9th.

But generally, people who chime in while I play with others with 'useful' tips.

My favourite is when the local neckbeard tells me how I've equipped my models with the wrong gear 'after' I've assembled them... Like yeah, dude, I'm totally going buy a new box of of warriors, yet another Tyrant and half a dozen boxes of 'gaunts based purely on your suggestion.

I like learning the books myself and using even the most inefficient models that I have (that usually over-perform as soon as my opponent writes them off as inefficient). I don't mind comments on how I can add to my list or slight tweaks, but I don't like explaining my entire army composition, what I'm trying out in the book, and how I like to play just because someone else thinks what I'm doing is stupid.

From past experience in the hobby and in MTG people like that become even worse when you play against them.

When it comes to hyper competitive list's, I never minded them much because you can see those players a mile off and I tend to enjoy them once in a while to see where the holes are in my jank list. I think the trick is not playing against them too often, they can actually be quite fun even when you're stomped once you see all the cool things they can do.

Karol wrote:
Someone has a fully painted nazi or communist style army. Only type of person I would never play.

That's sad, saw a beautifully painted "red army" themed guard army based on WWII era at a GT in 2010.

As a history buff i thought it was a nice touch.......so do you hate the black templars since their entire look is modeled on the knights hospitaller. from the crusades?

The winning and losing doesn't factor in on if they're a pleasant person to play against

Bingo sgt_smudge.

Just showed a regular at the FLGS , who only played 8th, how to play 5th last night. helped him make up a couple lists for his khorne army ....and he kicked the crap outta me...we had a blast, he really likes 5th to, so bonus!

 aphyon wrote:

Karol wrote:
Someone has a fully painted nazi or communist style army. Only type of person I would never play.

That's sad, saw a beautifully painted "red army" themed guard army based on WWII era at a GT in 2010.

As a history buff i thought it was a nice touch.......so do you hate the black templars since their entire look is modeled on the knights hospitaller. from the crusades?

What is the head count of communists and nazis have with your family, because on both sides of my moms and my dads family it goes in to 30+ people? And my step father family had the same head count, I know that the part of his whole family that lived in elblang were shot in 1940.

I don't care about hospitaler knights, but if someone would pop up with a teutonic XIX nationalismthemed army, I wouldn't play them either. Those people later ended up being prussian nazis and durning Operation Warta killed multiple people in my family, and the rest was chased out of their homes to rot in generaly guberny.

Karol wrote:

 aphyon wrote:

Karol wrote:
Someone has a fully painted nazi or communist style army. Only type of person I would never play.

That's sad, saw a beautifully painted "red army" themed guard army based on WWII era at a GT in 2010.

As a history buff i thought it was a nice touch.......so do you hate the black templars since their entire look is modeled on the knights hospitaller. from the crusades?

What is the head count of communists and nazis have with your family, because on both sides of my moms and my dads family it goes in to 30+ people? And my step father family had the same head count, I know that the part of his whole family that lived in elblang were shot in 1940.

I don't care about hospitaler knights, but if someone would pop up with a teutonic XIX nationalismthemed army, I wouldn't play them either. Those people later ended up being prussian nazis and durning Operation Warta killed multiple people in my family, and the rest was chased out of their homes to rot in generaly guberny.

You do understand that every group has screwed over every other group at some point in human history. some are more recent than others. in some parts of Europe they are still salty over things that happened between them many hundreds of years ago. i don't equate bad character or game experience with historical themes.

Aphyon, I would not tell a polish how he should fell about communism.

People running sucessor chapter custom rules.

Can you imagine the amount of bitching there would be if T'au were allowed to run sub-septs where you choose one of the main septs, get all the strategems but could swap out the sept trait for the custom traits?

 Galas wrote:
Aphyon, I would not tell a polish how he should fell about communism.

I agree communism is a horrible failed system that can never work and has killed millions, however were not talking political ideology here, we are talking about painting our 40K armies to reflect historical imagery.


One of the guys at the FLGS has his titan legion all painted up in heraldry from a real noble house dating back centuries.

 aphyon wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Aphyon, I would not tell a polish how he should fell about communism.

I agree communism is a horrible failed system that can never work and has killed millions, however were not talking political ideology here, we are talking about painting our 40K armies to reflect historical imagery.


One of the guys at the FLGS has his titan legion all painted up in heraldry from a real noble house dating back centuries.

Whether or not it makes sense to you, what Karol feels is perfectly valid.

Accept that, and move on. You can feel differently, and quite clearly do, so accept that that and just let it be.

 aphyon wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Aphyon, I would not tell a polish how he should fell about communism.

I agree communism is a horrible failed system that can never work and has killed millions, however were not talking political ideology here, we are talking about painting our 40K armies to reflect historical imagery.


One of the guys at the FLGS has his titan legion all painted up in heraldry from a real noble house dating back centuries.

I suggest you stay the feth away from politics, and leave Karol to his valid point of view.

The noble house from hundreds of years ago is irrelevant.

 aphyon wrote:


You do understand that every group has screwed over every other group at some point in human history. some are more recent than others. in some parts of Europe they are still salty over things that happened between them many hundreds of years ago. i don't equate bad character or game experience with historical themes.

Salty? My moms grandmother, her sister, all their daughters and grand daughters were raped and then killed after the siege of goldap, and non of them were german. You have no idea what was going on in Poland durning the war or durning the soviet occupation.

But I understand that. You have an american flag, so I guess you care for what happened in europe is unimportant to you. But imagine if someone waltz in to your store with a full blown KKK army, including hanging racks and custom made objectives. How long would that person stay at your store. There are people in my family that remember WWII, my grandparents grew up on post WWII ruins, till this very day there are buildings in my area that have bullet holes in them. Also in case of both russians and germans it was not like they tried to kill us of for the first time. They tried to do it for over 200 years. If someone in my country thinks that it is okey to be pro nazi or pro communist, then one of two things has to be true. Either they are insane or they are pro nazi/communism. And I would not play against either of the type of people.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 harlokin wrote:

I suggest you stay the feth away from politics, and leave Karol to his valid point of view.

The noble house from hundreds of years ago is irrelevant.

Has nothing to do with politics. Tell me when a solider nails a 6 year old to a door, what "politics" are behind it. Or when nazi flyers to use up all ammo decide to shot up columns of civilians. There is no politics in those things. Just one side being evil. Or does someone here questions the evilness of the 3ed reich?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:
Aphyon, I would not tell a polish how he should fell about communism.

Thanks. In a way it would be as if someone in Spain decided to have an interesting army and went full Condro Legion with it.

Karol wrote:
Has nothing to do with politics. Tell me when a solider nails a 6 year old to a door, what "politics" are behind it. Or when nazi flyers to use up all ammo decide to shot up columns of civilians. There is no politics in those things. Just one side being evil. Or does someone here questions the evilness of the 3ed reich?

You misunderstood my objection. My family were communist partisans in Yugoslavia, and several were killed by the Nazis.

Karol wrote:
Someone has a fully painted nazi or communist style army. Only type of person I would never play.

Hope you never get into bolt action then.

 warmaster21 wrote:

Karol wrote:
Someone has a fully painted nazi or communist style army. Only type of person I would never play.

Hope you never get into bolt action then.

Thats what Bolt Action is though. It is not what WH40K is.

Kayback wrote:

 warmaster21 wrote:

Karol wrote:
Someone has a fully painted nazi or communist style army. Only type of person I would never play.

Hope you never get into bolt action then.

Thats what Bolt Action is though. It is not what WH40K is.

Also, Karol does not (as far as I know) play Bolt Action. And, given what they just said, I doubt they want to play it.

 aphyon wrote:

Karol wrote:
Someone has a fully painted nazi or communist style army. Only type of person I would never play.

That's sad, saw a beautifully painted "red army" themed guard army based on WWII era at a GT in 2010.

As a history buff i thought it was a nice touch.......so do you hate the black templars since their entire look is modeled on the knights hospitaller. from the crusades?

There is a difference between utilizing elements(tabards, helms, sword pommels, etc) and flatout just copy/pasting something in.

This is something that comes up time and time and time again whenever things like this are discussed and pulling examples like the Black Templars out is disingenuous at best, trolling at worst. Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not there is a sizeable difference in the two concepts.

Just wanted to chime in with support for Karol on this one. The "Red menace" for a lot of people here in the US is a sort of distant 80s action movie bogeyman. In eastern europe the feeling is a little bit different.

 warmaster21 wrote:

Karol wrote:
Someone has a fully painted nazi or communist style army. Only type of person I would never play.

Hope you never get into bolt action then.

I think reasonable people recognize some degree of difference between accurately depicting a historical regime in a historical wargame, versus going out of your way to depict that same historical regime in a wholly unrelated sci-fi/fantasy game.

I don't have a problem with historical themes in 40K armies, but I would refuse to play against someone who I feel is deliberately glorifying a distasteful part of history. For me, iconography is where I draw the line, but it's going to be different for everyone- and quite likely related to how close to home a particular historical allegory hits.

Rules lawyering and gotcha tricks (knowing opponent makes a mistake yet does not inform untill it most beneficial). Its killing peoples joy and mood for the game, it does not belong.

Besides that i dont care if people rage or whine. A game can go sideways and dice can betray. Ive been playing Khorne and Wolves for many years, so gak going sideways is normal for me.

 warmaster21 wrote:

Karol wrote:
Someone has a fully painted nazi or communist style army. Only type of person I would never play.

Hope you never get into bolt action then.

That isn't necessarily an excuse or a cover. People I know who play Bolt Action are generally uncomfortable with swastikas, the folks with German armies stick to the straight cross. If I ran into someone who had plastered swastikas all over their force and was using historicity as an excuse I don't think I'd be comfortable taking that game.

C'mon guys, let's go back to the perfidious alb... people that make playing them quite the unfun time instead of delving into politics. There are off-topic subforums in Dakka, after all.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 warmaster21 wrote:

Karol wrote:
Someone has a fully painted nazi or communist style army. Only type of person I would never play.

Hope you never get into bolt action then.

That isn't necessarily an excuse or a cover. People I know who play Bolt Action are generally uncomfortable with swastikas, the folks with German armies stick to the straight cross. If I ran into someone who had plastered swastikas all over their force and was using historicity as an excuse I don't think I'd be comfortable taking that game.

Not many Nazi fighting vehicles or even units had Swastikas.

There are more reasons than I can count that I wouldn't play a game against a person.

Those same reasons are why I wouldn't spent time with the same person doing anything else. One of the joys of being an adult is deciding who you spend your time with (at least, off work!). If you're a crap human being, I'm not wasting that time with you.

I think we've covered the real world politics angle here now TBH.

Best we accept people's views and move on.

deleted

Anyone who may be concealing wildlife about their person, once got horribly distracted by what appeared to be indepedent lady lump movement turned out was poorly albino hoglet in a pouch sling on its way to the vets

I have a couple pieces of an ork army that are set up as a joke communist army. An ork warboss on a bike named Che Guevorka, a bearded weirdboy named Karl Morks, Da Red Gobbo, a bunch of rebel grots, etc etc. The whole point of it is to be a joke about socialist orks, just like the GRC in Gorkamorka was.

If someone got offended by that I'd be rather puzzled given that's it's built off an actual canon part of the game and the whole point is to take the piss out of them, not to glorify the Soviet Union... but of course they're entitled to their opinion.

On the original topic, BO, cheaters, and people who apply one standard to themselves and a different standard to everyone else - i.e. the guy who asks you to let him take back a move when he realizes he made a mistake, you let them, then he doesn't let you do the same next turn.

Cheaters
Heavily proxied armies (unless it’s a test run)
Unbuilt or completely unpainted armies. Sorry, but a big chunk of 40k for me is the spectacle, and I take no joy from fielding an army I've spent hundreds of hours painting for someone to whack down a bunch of grey plastic that will never even see undercoat.

phillv85 wrote:
Cheaters
Heavily proxied armies (unless it’s a test run)
Unbuilt or completely unpainted armies. Sorry, but a big chunk of 40k for me is the spectacle, and I take no joy from fielding an army I've spent hundreds of hours painting for someone to whack down a bunch of grey plastic that will never even see undercoat.

Agreed on the first.

Agreed on the second.

Partial disagreement on the third-I don't care about painting, though I'd be irked if someone had a bunch of empty bases. But, to each their own.

 JNAProductions wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
Cheaters
Heavily proxied armies (unless it’s a test run)
Unbuilt or completely unpainted armies. Sorry, but a big chunk of 40k for me is the spectacle, and I take no joy from fielding an army I've spent hundreds of hours painting for someone to whack down a bunch of grey plastic that will never even see undercoat.

Agreed on the first.

Agreed on the second.

Partial disagreement on the third-I don't care about painting, though I'd be irked if someone had a bunch of empty bases. But, to each their own.

Yea that’s fine, we both play for different reasons. I have no problem with people just wanting to play the game, but for me the game isn’t that good, and I take more enjoyment from the visual aspect than the game mechanics. As you said, each to their own.

I can't believe I'm the first person to say this but:

Children.

I mean, yeah, usually if I'm at my local store for gaming night there are going to be some snotlings around. It can't really be helped. Honestly I don't mind playing against the ones in high-school or even the well behaved ones that are younger and I've gotten to know them (there are a few at my store that are about 12-14 that are extremely polite, knowlegeable, and great to play with... but I held off a bit at first because I just didn't know.)

But then there are the REAL younguns. Honestly, I just don't enjoy the game when I have to play it with a ten year old. I've seen players at the table next to me throw fits, cry, storm off. I mean, sure, that happens to adults sometimes too (heh, tournaments...) but, well, there it is.

As a rule I just don't care to play against children.

Yeah I wouldn't play with someone under 13 unless I knew them.

If someone brings a completely unpainted, grey tide, latest meta cheese list I'll usually avoid playing them again.

Competitive is perfectly fine, and having a few unpainted models is perfectly fine, it's the combination that turns me off. I don't really get much out of playing games like that. 40k is not a good enough game at a mechanical level for that to be worth it for me.

Oh I've also had people conveniently 'have to leave early' after being visibly annoyed at losing too hard by T3. Like man, just concede at that point, no need to make up some dumb excuse. This happened to me with a father in his late 40s or early 50s, I was honestly shocked at his behavior.

leerm02 wrote:
I can't believe I'm the first person to say this but:

Children.

I mean, yeah, usually if I'm at my local store for gaming night there are going to be some snotlings around. It can't really be helped. Honestly I don't mind playing against the ones in high-school or even the well behaved ones that are younger and I've gotten to know them (there are a few at my store that are about 12-14 that are extremely polite, knowlegeable, and great to play with... but I held off a bit at first because I just didn't know.)

But then there are the REAL younguns. Honestly, I just don't enjoy the game when I have to play it with a ten year old. I've seen players at the table next to me throw fits, cry, storm off. I mean, sure, that happens to adults sometimes too (heh, tournaments...) but, well, there it is.

As a rule I just don't care to play against children.

I dislike them too been wupped at x-wing twice by the same one

I haven't had an incident that made me say "never play that gank ever again" to myself. The few people I've had really bad experiences against (cheating, power gaming) only motivate me to beat them in as Troops heavily as possible. One player insisted on remeasuring every measure I made, even ones where he helped lay out my tape or ones where it was a short range target against a long range weapon with 80% of the tape past the target. I want to play him again solely so I can pull out a pair of tin snips and cut his tape measure off when he constantly remeasures. I would hand him a brand new tape measure alongside a warning that the remeasuremnt shenanigans will end in the same fashion from here on out, but without a replacement tape measure.

I'm assuming that'd be only if you had told them it was meant to be a casual game, and not just in general.

If I'm sitting somewhere and someone comes up and wants to play 40k or any other game, and I have a casual for fun list with me and they have their ITC list, there is no fun to be had in a game against that.

So I would say no thanks. Thats not a personal insult to the person or saying I'd never play that person ever, thats saying thats what causes me to refuse games.

I have no desire to chase after the latest power builds to have fun games. The cost, time, and storage of doing that for years has left me with no room in my house for anything and I said enough was enough.

I don't go out of my way to chase down ITC players to play 40k either. If I ever play 40k its in a campaign for fun environment and usually in a private setting where everyone knows the deal and doesn't show up with their adepticon list.

Creepy Guys.

That's probably about it.


I am not going to refuse a game because my opponent has a good list or is better than me, that would be being a very poor sport about a game.
I am not going to refuse a game because someone is being a little obnoxious about the rules [targeting antennae, etc.] because they are, in fact, playing by the rules and forcing people to play by one's houserules is definitely bad.
I am not going to refuse a game because my opponent is using unpainted models or proxies, because enthusiasm to play is commendable, I'm not going to gatekeep on proficiency or readiness to go all-in, the game is expensive to start and I don't expect someeone to have 2k points right away, and where would I have been if my friends had not been willing to play against Green Army Men way back when I only had like 40 real guardsmen and a tank.

Powergaming: I don't mind people who forget the rules, or ask to go back a bit if they forget something, but the powergaming attitude puts me off that level of play.

I always make a point of asking how competitive someone wants to go when arranging a game. I have no real interest in powergaming, while I have the odd unit which is deemed super-competitive such as a Leviathan, I'm not a fan of the brutally-competitive scene. I did encounter a guy who said he's fine with playing semi-competitive, then rocked up with the standard Broadside-bomb with 2x Riptides and 30+ Shield Drones, his justification being that taking his single Sunshark Bomber made it a semi-competitive list.

I don't have any issues against unpainted models, some of us just don't have the time or resources to crack out a whole army in a short time. If someone wants to proxy some new stuff I'm all for it; if however they decided to proxy their whole army as another one that's where I'd draw the line.


Bad hygiene: come on people, it's not difficult. I get it, after an 8-hour shift we all get a bit pongy, but keep a can of spray in your bag for Christ's sake.

Cheating: Goes without mention, guy pulled a massive hissy after I noticed his cheating at a small scale tourney, kinda put me off tournaments for good.

General bullying: In a few clubs I've been to in the past I've seen people who are...a few pencils short of a pack, and these guys seem to be targets for general ridicule and teasing. Wouldn't ever play them.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Creepy Guys.

That's probably about it.


I am not going to refuse a game because my opponent has a good list or is better than me, that would be being a very poor sport about a game.
I am not going to refuse a game because someone is being a little obnoxious about the rules [targeting antennae, etc.] because they are, in fact, playing by the rules and forcing people to play by one's houserules is definitely bad.
I am not going to refuse a game because my opponent is using unpainted models or proxies, because enthusiasm to play is commendable, I'm not going to gatekeep on proficiency or readiness to go all-in, the game is expensive to start and I don't expect someeone to have 2k points right away, and where would I have been if my friends had not been willing to play against Green Army Men way back when I only had like 40 real guardsmen and a tank.

I have to say, a great policy! Pick up games take some level of tolerance, and when we are tolerant with each other we get a good gaming community. We start to pick up cues about each other and make adjustments. Exception would be for “out of game” personality/safety reasons.

leerm02 wrote:
I can't believe I'm the first person to say this but:

Children.

I mean, yeah, usually if I'm at my local store for gaming night there are going to be some snotlings around. It can't really be helped. Honestly I don't mind playing against the ones in high-school or even the well behaved ones that are younger and I've gotten to know them (there are a few at my store that are about 12-14 that are extremely polite, knowlegeable, and great to play with... but I held off a bit at first because I just didn't know.)

But then there are the REAL younguns. Honestly, I just don't enjoy the game when I have to play it with a ten year old. I've seen players at the table next to me throw fits, cry, storm off. I mean, sure, that happens to adults sometimes too (heh, tournaments...) but, well, there it is.

As a rule I just don't care to play against children.

We have a necron player at our store who is 14, his dad also plays. both are great gamers to hang out with. the MTG groups has one of the members nephew play regularly and he is a bit younger. my problem has never been with younger players in general because most are over 12. the unsupervised game store kid however is a problem.

We had one player in one of the other game groups who let his kid run wild i the store deliberately destroying store terrain. to the point we had to give him an ultimatum-control your child or you are not allowed to play in our store.

It wasn't directly a "i won't play against you" directly but it was kind of indirectly the same thing.

I have a gaming group of long standing and we all know each other and play at the same level of semi-competitive (as in, build lists more for fluff, coolness, or background, but play the best we can). So I have a luxury. I love the hobby side and have multiple tables with lovingly built terrain etc, but do not expect that from you. Show some enthusiasm and you're cool at our table!

(Purposefully being a bit over the top and hyperbolic here)
I will say it is the uber competitive side that turns me off a bit. As others have said before, the game mechanics themselves are not designed well enough for it to really be a game of skill, so list building, buying, and chasing the meta have more to do with "killer" lists than any genius. So who doesn't get a return game from me?

1: The table you by turn two is my goal, lists. Rarely a real feat in 40k. Just google for 3 minutes and get the most efficient damage dealer, then insist on Planet Bowlingball. If I hear you bragging about some broken combo, you're out. (I always remember the clerk from Last Grenadier who never tired of talking about how Deathmaster Snihk could get 40+ attacks that wound on 2+ and give no save...yeah, takes skill to win a game with a model that doesn't appear on the table until you say, appears where you say, and destroys the enemy general and his entire unit every time.)

2: It's only fun to win guy. Wrong. It's fun to play. Losing a game by 1-2 VP's is generally far more fun than winning by 4+ for me. This is 3-4 hours of my time (or more), why use that not having fun?

3: Not involved opponent. Play the game, have fun, joke and discuss and laugh. Do not sit there on your phone, or spend the majority of the time away from the table. if you'd rather be doing that, go do it. Hey, if you want to talk movies, or video games or whatever, I'm there man! I probably love them too!

4: The person who gets their self-worth from telling others how poor their (choose any or all): unit choices, gear choices, tactical choices, etc etc etc. We all have insecurity, please recognize that most the behavior stated is insecurity, and we aren't fooled by your attempts to boost your own self-esteem. This is my definition of Neckbearding, others may vary. (Okay, simplified, I know, and yeah, I absolutely have my own insecurities and fall under this at times as we all do.)

Hmmm, may have taken this a bit too serious. I really can't say enough about having your own long-term group of people to play with.

Outright Nazi imagery on their minis. Swastika armbands and gak like that. That's probably it.

For me it's simple:. I refuse to play people where I don't have a fun game against them consistently. The criteria for that is rather vague I admit, but it's just a feeling I have after the game where I don't feel like I had fun whether due to their list or how they played or anything else. If I don't feel like I enjoy games against particular people I try to avoid playing them.

Unfortunately a few people like this are actually pretty good friends of mine and I enjoy talking to them about the game, but I don't enjoy playing them.

The only real disqualifier for me is attitude.

Context:
I am a behavioral analyst. I deal with children who have been victims of abuse and neglect. I work for the state. My decisions oftentimes are used in determining whether or not Timmy gets to go home to his family or if he needs to be taken away. I assist in investigations by the state. I have seen, heard, and watched gak that would keep you from sleeping for a while.

This is all to say that when I play Warhammer 40,000, its a release from all of that. It's an opportunity to not worry about any of those things (like most others, I'm sure). The last thing I personally want is to feel stressed and anxious about playing a game. So for me, if the person is angry, complaining, frustrated, (and I'm not talking about just being irritated at a string of bad rolls, we all have been there), or otherwise just kind of being an ass about playing, then I'm not interested in playing them.

I tend not to play a lot of competitive games because I tend to build my armies based on what I like more than what is actually the mathematically strongest at the time, but if someone asks for a game and they want to play a hard list that's fine, I will warn them that I might not give them the challenge they may be asking for, but I can try and as long as we have a few laughs and enjoy the game, I don't really care otherwise.

BO/Bad hygiene

Reading this, it’s reassuring to see no one say they refuse to play with new players like myself.

 Khalith wrote:
Reading this, it’s reassuring to see no one say they refuse to play with new players like myself.

I love to bring people into the gaming community so no there is no hostility towards new players no matter the game system. without community why do we even build armies?


the one thing i always see as a sign that i did a good job teaching or demoing is if the new play had fun.

When i see some players go all hardcore/tournament on somebody trying to learn the game is annoys me because it gives them a negative incentive to move further into the game. why continue play when your first experience is to be curb stomped?

 Khalith wrote:
Reading this, it’s reassuring to see no one say they refuse to play with new players like myself.

I actually like playing new people. Nothing gets a group going again (or me) than a new, enthusiastic player who finds surprise and wonder in the game. It brings some of the same to me! So step up to the table my friend and have fun!

I've had people threaten to out me, be maliciously and aggressively transphobic, and the FLGS backed the guy, as did the local 40k community, so unless I'm playing by myself, there's no one locally that I feel safe with, and no store that is safe.

In 3ed or 4th edition at a store that is now closed i had my tau army fully wysiwg but i had the choice of 2 opponents. One was a proxies person having a few mismatched models (squad of necrons, space marines, guard and what nought.) The other had a fully painted sisters but something seemed off. and boy how it was off during the game faith points reload every turn type bad. that was a fun summer the other close flgs was on a warhammer not 40k year theses games got me into warhammer finally. only modern time was in a tournament and space marine gunline versus my custodians terrain screwed me all tournament till i got to the last game i said screw it after him shooting clear though a 12 inch building because my weapon was showing I conceded right there.

 Blndmage wrote:
I've had people threaten to out me, be maliciously and aggressively transphobic, and the FLGS backed the guy, as did the local 40k community, so unless I'm playing by myself, there's no one locally that I feel safe with, and no store that is safe.

I'm sorry to hear that. :(

I hope you're able to find some friends you can enjoy the hobby with, or whatever makes you happy.

My gut answer to this is a Space Wolf army.

If they didn't took a bath or a shower in the last 24 hours.

 Khalith wrote:
Reading this, it’s reassuring to see no one say they refuse to play with new players like myself.

Everyone likes new players. Well, at least anyone who is going to be in the position to play a new player. I wouldn't be the least bit self-conscious about being new pr cautious you're not going to be welcomed, all you have to do is let people know it's your first game / first few games but you're eager to learn. Generally speaking, there's nothing people like more than helping someone else get into the game.

 Khalith wrote:
Reading this, it’s reassuring to see no one say they refuse to play with new players like myself.

now way! new players are my favorite! they seem to be more into the lore and the discovery, and the games tend to be more relaxing (and I like helping them win when they think they cant!)

Plus where else are you going to get easy victories new friends?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Plus where else are you going to get easy victories new friends?

They usually kick my butt because i help them write a decent list

 aphyon wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Plus where else are you going to get easy victories new friends?

They usually kick my butt because i help them write a decent list

LOL. Exact same here. I will walk through a few concepts of how to play and help them make a good decision or two against me and then BAM! i end up loosing, no matter how hard i try! (I swear, the luck gods see this happening and they are like "oh, you are helping them huh? well, I better join in and give them a little hand up. Those lascannons into your repulsor, how does 11 damage sound? Those BS4 autocannons, how about you fail every save and go ahead and lose that squad early...)

Hmmm. IRL there was a player who would bring a Taunar Drone spam list to the store. To be fair, it was usually the only model on the table and we would have a higher points advantage but the thing was still unbeatable. Every game was just shooting drones your whole turn, then it would just heal up wash, rinse repeat.

Hypothetical, someone's 3D printed Armored Company would be a big nope. Tank lists arent fun to play against to begin with, you could at least spring for actual models.... Take your win. I'll just paint today.

I can’t think of anyone I’d refuse a game with. At least, a first game. Most of my games are against a close group of friends, but my few forays into the world ended well.

I could imagine running into someone I wouldn’t want to play with again, but I have a pretty wide tolerance for the socially “slowed” and enjoy games against different types of players from the freshly minted to bitter old grumps that want their virus bombs back. The isn’t this pretty to the isn’t this wombo combo insane? Types. I’m pretty easy going.

In short, the only thing that would make me refuse a future game would be a complete jerk, or a “void” to interact with. If my saying “they duck” when you declare shooting at my Guardsmen doesn’t at least crack a smile... or later saying “it ducks” when you shoot at my tank get some kind of a reaction... I don’t know. I play games with people, in person, to have fun socializing. Having a shared interest to practice my abysmal small talk skills with. If that doesn’t happen than I probably would rather try to rofl-stomp a computer because I can’t hurt it’s feelings, than try to stimulate conversation with a void.

 Bosskelot wrote:
They play Space Marines.

feth that book(s)

I kind of avoid marine armies too.

Mostly because I like building a narrative in my head around the game and playing custodes (and when I was playing my own marines) it made it harder to justify a reason while marines and my guys were fighting and that took a lot of the fun out of the game for me.

I think the only time I'd play against marines now is from a purely competitive mindset of "Can I beat this guy's power list".

 aphyon wrote:

Karol wrote:
Someone has a fully painted nazi or communist style army. Only type of person I would never play.

That's sad, saw a beautifully painted "red army" themed guard army based on WWII era at a GT in 2010.

As a history buff i thought it was a nice touch.......so do you hate the black templars since their entire look is modeled on the knights hospitaller. from the crusades?

The winning and losing doesn't factor in on if they're a pleasant person to play against

Bingo sgt_smudge.

Just showed a regular at the FLGS , who only played 8th, how to play 5th last night. helped him make up a couple lists for his khorne army ....and he kicked the crap outta me...we had a blast, he really likes 5th to, so bonus!

The vast majority of people I know that have some commie themed armies are not commies. Heck I've met a trump voter playing a valhallan force with a red army theme, and one of the people I play against regularly has a red army themed gene cult army.

I have never met someone who made a big deal about having a nazi themed army that wasn't actually a nazi, but I have seen wehrmacht looking miniatures from people who don't really bring it up that seem fine.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Anyone who may be concealing wildlife about their person, once got horribly distracted by what appeared to be indepedent lady lump movement turned out was poorly albino hoglet in a pouch sling on its way to the vets

And they stopped to play a game of warhammer? What?

 Blndmage wrote:
I've had people threaten to out me, be maliciously and aggressively transphobic, and the FLGS backed the guy, as did the local 40k community, so unless I'm playing by myself, there's no one locally that I feel safe with, and no store that is safe.

I'm sorry. There are a number of transphobic and homophobic members of my local community that make me distinctly uncomfortable to be around, but I am always too scared to speak up when they are cracking bigoted jokes in the corner. *hug*

This is a serious issue in the broader miniature gaming community and one that communities, like here on dakkadakka, are loathe to address. either through fear of alienating the donkey-caves who espouse these views, or through some of the store managers, owners, mods, what have yous in authority, espousing some of these beliefs themselves. For every donkey-cave you don't drive away, you are preventing the people they prey on from joining the community.

 greatbigtree wrote:
I can’t think of anyone I’d refuse a game with. At least, a first game. Most of my games are against a close group of friends, but my few forays into the world ended well.

I could imagine running into someone I wouldn’t want to play with again, but I have a pretty wide tolerance for the socially “slowed” and enjoy games against different types of players from the freshly minted to bitter old grumps that want their virus bombs back. The isn’t this pretty to the isn’t this wombo combo insane? Types. I’m pretty easy going.

In short, the only thing that would make me refuse a future game would be a complete jerk, or a “void” to interact with. If my saying “they duck” when you declare shooting at my Guardsmen doesn’t at least crack a smile... or later saying “it ducks” when you shoot at my tank get some kind of a reaction... I don’t know. I play games with people, in person, to have fun socializing. Having a shared interest to practice my abysmal small talk skills with. If that doesn’t happen than I probably would rather try to rofl-stomp a computer because I can’t hurt it’s feelings, than try to stimulate conversation with a void.

Really really really bad hygiene? Maybe they put their fingers in dark moist places then touch your dudes?

stratigo wrote:
And they stopped to play a game of warhammer? What?

When you gotta play, you gotta play.

Wait... that's not how that phrase goes...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

stratigo wrote:
And they stopped to play a game of warhammer? What?

What you gotta play, you gotta play.

Wait... that's not how that phrase goes...

I ain't a playa I just crush a lot.

Broadly speaking, I'll refuse a game if I don't think it will be fun.

This could be for a wide variety of reasons, but typically it will be based on a previous experience. There are some people who earn reputations in every store that people often avoid playing, but in fact some people I get a long with just fine and who are capable players, but I don't enjoy playing because what they get out of the game and play it for is very different from what I am in it for, or likewise often someone may bring a list that will be stupidly one sided one way or the other, both of us can find better uses of our evening. I will generally be less enthused to play someone running something painfully unfluffy however, particularly for the sake of exploiting rules mechanics just to make a more powerful army list (e.g. Blood Angels/Dark Angels/SW biker/TWC 7E deathstars).

I've never outright refused a game to anyone new just looking for a pickup game except for a handful of times when someone obviously brought a face crushing netlist and I hadn't brought anything that would pose a challenge, otherwise unless they were particularly obnoxiously offensive in some way I don't think I generally would, it'd have to be pretty outrageous.

For me:

• If they are a raging judgemental bigot. Be it racist, sexist or rabid fundamentalist of any description (I include ‘angry atheists’, ‘red pill’ MRAs and OTT ‘woke’ SJWs in that list)
• Dudes that have repeatedly creeped out my female friends
• Any dude with a USSR or Nazi themed army
• Rule cheaters
• Dudes that rip on other players painting, skills or abilities, or makes fun of their accent, disability etc. or is otherwise a bully or douche… Yeah… nope.
• Anyone that:
o has a problem with either of my daughters watching us play and asking questions, and practising our second (non-English) language (which they are much better at than me) or
o has been mean or rude to my daughters in any games they played against them, or were otherwise rude to them, or make rude comments about their painting or even being there in the FLGS (they often paint their models whilst I play in the store)

I’m cool with proxying to an extent, one or two models a couple of time is OK, anything beyond that… yeah, nah.

Don’t care about painted or unpainted models. I am more than happy to play against ‘power gamers’ and ITC ‘power list’ nerds, even if I know I will lose. I am also more than happy to play against players I know are better than me and will kick my behind.

 XeonDragon wrote:
Any dude with a USSR or Nazi themed army

Presumably if you were playing a WWII based game this wouldn't necessarily apply, right?

I only play 40k. Given my what both the soviets and the nazis put my family through, I will not play WW2 based games. Period.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 XeonDragon wrote:
Any dude with a USSR or Nazi themed army

Presumably if you were playing a WWII based game this wouldn't necessarily apply, right?

 XeonDragon wrote:

• Anyone that:
o has a problem with either of my daughters watching us play and asking questions, and practising our second (non-English) language (which they are much better at than me) or

People have a right to be wary of young kids hovering around expensive and easily breakable models. Now, your kids might not do that but a stranger does not know that. I've seen many a model be broken and/or go missing from curious hands and distracting kids.

I have, personally, had very few interactions with people I wouldn't want to play against. I came close once, in very early 8th edition. I had been out of the hobby for a while, and I only had two games of 8th in before this tourney. Someone I had never met before came up to me and chewed me out for my army's "crap look" and that it made him want to vomit. Luckily I never faced him.

One my hypothetical list:
1. People that are not in a fun mood. I do this game for pleasure, not to be with a grump.
2. Anyone being extremely political during the game. Do you love Trump/Sanders/Biden/Antifa/BLM/MRA? Good for you, but not during the game please.... unless it's funny.
3.Anyone that isn't careful with my stuff. I saw someone at the FLGS once brush his opponent's casualties off the board with his arm and into his hand and toss them across the table. They weren't even my models and I wanted to kill the guy.

Wanting to use "House Rules" which basically boil down to "Buff Unit I like, Nerf Unit I Dislike".

yukishiro1 wrote:

 Khalith wrote:
Reading this, it’s reassuring to see no one say they refuse to play with new players like myself.

Everyone likes new players. Well, at least anyone who is going to be in the position to play a new player. I wouldn't be the least bit self-conscious about being new pr cautious you're not going to be welcomed, all you have to do is let people know it's your first game / first few games but you're eager to learn. Generally speaking, there's nothing people like more than helping someone else get into the game.

Everyone on the forums I’ve been to and the discord I joined have been very welcoming and supportive. I’ve been asking a lot of questions and everyone has been very constructive with advice, answers, and criticism. There’s always that concern when wanting to get involved in a new community as they can become very insular and tribal. I am happy to say that my experience has been a positive one.

I didn't refuse to play altogether, but my last game of 8th I walked away from the table on turn 1. My opponent and I were playing the same army and he constantly queried how stuff worked and refused to believe me until I got the book out and showed him, and acted like everything I was doing was an attempt to cheat. Explaining what I'm doing is fine, getting the codex out to reference something is fine, but if someone is insistent on going to the book multiple times on the first turn to answer basic questions about an army we both have that is too much. On his turn he tried to argue one of my units was out of cover based on a completely faulty understanding of the cover rules and again started getting heated when I disagreed with him. This was a nothing mid-table game at a tournament and I just shrugged and told him if he wanted the win that bad he could have it and packed up. Literally the only tournament game in 10 years of attending them where I've felt like I had to do that.

For me it’s really down to personality and hygiene.

If my opponent is a stinky person, the game just isn’t going to be terribly pleasant, is it? Bit of BO isn’t necessarily a deal breaker - it depends how, ah....matured it is. Some people are after all just naturally whiffier than others, that can’t be helped and shouldn’t be criticised. But when it’s clear it’s not just that days whiffs? Yeah I’m out.

Personality? Bit trickier to define. But I’ll try to explain.

Right now, I’m so far out of practice and knowledge of modern 40k it’s not even funny. So the few games I’ve recently had were taxing. My opponents were doing things that just made no sense to me - like declaring charges against multiple units, including ones which they couldn’t properly engage due to a screening unit (well, a unit in the way! I wasn’t screening with intent).

My opponents took the time to explain it all to me. And sometimes I blundered into a ‘Gotcha’. They let me make the mistakes, and I stuck to them. But because they explained things, I learned and improved. So I can only sing their praises.

But if they refused to explain, and I’m left floundering with no context to their actions? Not so keen. By all means give me my well deserved pasting. Just don’t be a Richard about it. Can’t be much if any honour and glory in stomping a NooB!

Also, people that don’t banter during a game. Bemoan your god awful roll, celebrate your unlikely pay off. Be human. Show you’re actually enjoying yourself.

Overall, people that lose sight of the fact each game is meant to be fun. The challenge is meant to be fun. Yes you need to make allowances, not everyone has the same social skills and preferences. Once again, it really boils down to was my opponent a Richard? If they’re just naturally socially awkward, that’s fine. But if they adopt a ‘game face’ and treat it all super serial? Nah, I’m out.

And one thing I‘ll always object to are Compulsory House Rules. No demanding we use ITC etc. I’ve no beef with them as such, but unless we’re both preparing for a Tournament, please do not just add further rules. Whether I’m still learning the base game, or more advanced, House Rules should be optional, as they affect how I might want to arrange my list and deployment etc.

@ stratigo

Was a MTG pre-release, guessing they just dropped in for the new cards and a game or two, still a good rule of thumb for any game

stratigo wrote:

This is a serious issue in the broader miniature gaming community and one that communities, like here on dakkadakka, are loathe to address. either through fear of alienating the donkey-caves who espouse these views, or through some of the store managers, owners, mods, what have yous in authority, espousing some of these beliefs themselves. For every donkey-cave you don't drive away, you are preventing the people they prey on from joining the community.

That is absolutely not the case here, we have exactly zero tolerance for that kind of behavior, if you see anyone post in such a manner report it or PM a moderator and that person will very quickly be unable to post here.

I mean, Dakka is famous for it's double standards.

@Mad Doc Grotsnik: I agree with you here, if you make a mistake, take your lumps and learn from it.

 cuda1179 wrote:

2. Anyone being extremely political during the game. Do you love Trump/Sanders/Biden/Antifa/BLM/MRA? Good for you, but not during the game please.... unless it's funny.

Nope, quiet the opposite for some & more so for the others. I can envision making some fun politically incorrect SoB/GSC style armies to mock most of them.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I mean, Dakka is famous for it's double standards.

Thats a pretty big accusation there, you want to back that up with some evidence? PM it to me.

There is a player in my group I try to dodge as much as possible.
He is wailing crybaby when he loses and a arrogant prick when he wins.
I am living on the countryside and we have to drive 40-60 min for a match.
He has a tendace to surrender after the first or second turn if it is not going his way and that is an absolute no-go for me
I don´t want to drive over 1:30-2 hours just for one round

I only play with people I know, and never play in public. I've read too much online and seen enough FLGS activity as a bystander to know I wouldn't enjoy it.

One came to mind while I was at work, but I'm not cure how to categorize it.


Years upon years ago, White Dwarf featured an army by Joe Orteza that was 95-98% green stuff sculpted into flames, a giant scorpion, and whatnot. He claimed it was his Chaos Space Marines army. No, it really isn't. It's a 7 year old's Milliputt project. I would scoop, no matter how much I paid to be in that tourney, no matter how close I was to the title.

I can understand proxies or non-GW models, I have no problem with that within reason. But when you literally cannot tell what someone's army is without a damn road map, it's too far. Whatever Orteza's army was, or whatever kind of player that is, I wouldn't play them.

I will generally avoid games with people who are:

1: Defeatist. There's nothing which drags a game down more than when one player fluffs one of their rolls, then approaches the entire game with a depressed expectation of failure and a "why am I even bothering" attitude. yes, your "I can pull off a turn 1 charge" unit failed to pull off it's turn 1 charge. get over it, there are 5-6 more turns for you to play before the winner is decided.

2: Predictable. Back in 7th I played a lot more than I do now, and played a greater variety of people. 95% of people took varied lists, and you never knew what you would get. the remaining 5%, you would expect the same list as last time you played them, and the time before, and the time before - the one they copied off the internet and win most games with. (Pleased to say my Orks usually trow such lists off kilter and make people have to think a bit!)

3: Unprepared people who "quickly throw a list together" once they know what you're bringing. Played a Space Wolf player before Corona kicked off. He asked what I was playing, I said Orks, and he "threw a list together" - all anti-infantry, purely tailored to kill hordes. His loss - I brought a dreadbash!

4. Not a fan of playing anyone with a maturity of under 18. I can make exceptions for younger people who take it seriously, but there is an element of "whiny kid" which I cannot stand, and to prevent me from teaching said whiny kid the merits of an advanced (if slightly colourful) vocabulary, I avoid the games.

I've never discounted any army choice, I'll play against anything as long as they don't mind me questioning the abilities of units which I am unfamiliar with. I was actually looking forward to facing Iron Hands when they were the new hotness, but I didn't get the chance. I see it as a challenge for my Orks - I've never been afraid of losing; it's a game, and for me to win I expect my opponent to lose, and I should never expect them to do anything which I cannot do myself.

i agree, on a lot of points, but i'd like to expand on vakathis a bit.

See, i don't own a car, transporting minis is annoying, so i in general bring out a small portion of my collection and call it a day, now, i normally set up a match before i go , now if a newbie shows up and i have brought what ammounts to comp list and hes has what is in essence babies first whaagh, then there is not really a point for a match, because i'd like for a match to be able to go either way not because of the army selection but the skill involved.

vice versa i also refuse comp or SM+ Supplements if i field my R&H army. Because that is just a onesided stomp regardless of how well i play.


As for the nazi commi lists, ifeel like there's a difference, in many ways, between those that do it along the lines of the satire of old 40k. 40k has these themes as Satire of the real world counterparts in their ideology.
Then of course as someone that occaisonally plays bolt action you face these armies, and if there are history buffs, they will probably paint as accurately as possible, there's however a difference between someone wanting to do such an army as accurately as possible and someone genuinly in favour of their respective ideology and you will get rather easy clues from their behaviour as to what is the case.
the later, i reccomend to avoid like the plague. Now that is personal and Karols point is perfectly understandable to completely refuse such matches aswell. (also, there's a distinct difference between such armies showing up in historicals and in 40k, and just because the satire theme exists doesn't mean that now that the lore turned more wanabee ernest to condone that)


As for the transphobia /homophobia, considering the store i go to has atleast one player that is trans ( i rarely play at the store due to transport but have a table at home and am working on a second one) , is just unaceptable, even when you are conservative, at the end of the day live and let live is one of the basics of a liberal democratic society most of the western world claims to fall under.

I pretty heavily curate the people I prefer to play with (as I've got the luxury of a really really large pool) so if I've already played someone multiple times, you've got factors like

-hasn't painted any miniatures in their entire army, has been around for long enough to have started doing so

-is incredibly defeatist when losing/gloating when winning, generally doesn't make the game playing a good light hearted experience

-army has a 'gimmick' that makes basically every game exactly the same and I'm not in the mood to play that kind of game (All Superheavy army, 100% all infantry horde, full deep strike alpha strike, 6 flyers, stuff like that)

but in terms of the first game I'm playing against someone, we've arranged in advance they turn up and I refuse the game, it's pretty much only

1) they have some kind of army or attitude that is going to make some other member(s) of the group feel unwelcome/is going to generate complaints to the FLGS. Whether that's heavy scare quotes "politics", one of those riotously hilarious scatalogical slaanesh armies the kids these days are all getting into with their tiktoks and their fidget spinners, or just smelling real real real real bad, doesn't matter. I know as one of the people that organizes the club I'm going to get to chat with the store owner about it later if we do get complaints about the guy, so generally I err on the side of caution with newcomers.

2) Clear cheating. showing up with blatantly 1,000+ points more than they're supposed to have, repeatedly fudging die rolls right in front of me, inventing rules whole cloth (not just misremembering/remembering rules from old eds). Happens more often than you'd think, and people are fully conscious of it (generally justifiying it internally by believing their units are hard done by in the rules and need advantages regardless of whether your opponent agrees to them or not).

Zuwi wrote:
There is a player in my group I try to dodge as much as possible.
He is wailing crybaby when he loses and a arrogant prick when he wins.
I am living on the countryside and we have to drive 40-60 min for a match.
He has a tendace to surrender after the first or second turn if it is not going his way and that is an absolute no-go for me
I don´t want to drive over 1:30-2 hours just for one round

I remember a guy like that, he would copy/paste winning lists from tourneys in the 3rd/4th/5th era and try them on us....but he was really bad at execution of the tactics, so if he wasn't winning by turn 2/3 he would give up. we would have to coax him to play it out and often times he would have a comeback win.


As keyboard warriors here , we have the tendency to say things we would not say in person where we can gauge the mood in the room so i take everything said about social interactions with a bit of a hedge because often we only hear one side of the story.. as an example, i think it was maybe a year or two ago we had a new guy come into our FLGS and the big MTG guy, who is super helpful and a pretty cool dude, hooked the guy up with some of his decks and showed him the ropes.

The guy wanted him to come back and play more on a day the MTG guy could not...that whole real life thing getting in the way of gaming. the the new guy apparently got all offended and went on a rant on the stores page throwing out accusations of bigotry, homophobia and the like (i saw the posting) and we were all like WTF????? the MTG guy was baffled as he let the new guy use his stuff to learn how to play. personality conflict perhaps? who knows, but if you only read the rant you would think terrible things about the MTG guy and the store atmosphere. .

 aphyon wrote:

Zuwi wrote:
There is a player in my group I try to dodge as much as possible.
He is wailing crybaby when he loses and a arrogant prick when he wins.
I am living on the countryside and we have to drive 40-60 min for a match.
He has a tendace to surrender after the first or second turn if it is not going his way and that is an absolute no-go for me
I don´t want to drive over 1:30-2 hours just for one round

I remember a guy like that, he would copy/paste winning lists from tourneys in the 3rd/4th/5th era and try them on us....but he was really bad at execution of the tactics, so if he wasn't winning by turn 2/3 he would give up. we would have to coax him to play it out and often times he would have a comeback win.


As keyboard warriors here , we have the tendency to say things we would not say in person where we can gauge the mood in the room so i take everything said about social interactions with a bit of a hedge because often we only hear one side of the story.. as an example, i think it was maybe a year or two ago we had a new guy come into our FLGS and the big MTG guy, who is super helpful and a pretty cool dude, hooked the guy up with some of his decks and showed him the ropes.

The guy wanted him to come back and play more on a day the MTG guy could not...that whole real life thing getting in the way of gaming. the the new guy apparently got all offended and went on a rant on the stores page throwing out accusations of bigotry, homophobia and the like (i saw the posting) and we were all like WTF????? the MTG guy was baffled as he let the new guy use his stuff to learn how to play. personality conflict perhaps? who knows, but if you only read the rant you would think terrible things about the MTG guy and the store atmosphere. .

My personal favorite guys who give up are guys who get incredibly mad at perfectly statistical dice rolls. Nothing makes me laugh like someone rolling 6 space marine armor saves, getting 2 fails, and slapping the table in frustration yelling "come ON!!!"

I hope I've never ejected a player from the group over a false allegation of anything, but ultimately as an administrator you don't have a heck of a lot of choice, particularly if you don't own the space and the person who does is the one bringing you the complaint. Over the years I'm sure something has come my way exaggerated from some entitled Karen who heard a potty word and complained to the manager, but it is what it is, and it isn't like we aren't the only game store in the area people can go to. Stay a preferred partner of the store you work with, and you get many more new people than those you have to kick when you weren't personally there to see/hear the offending incident.

I did manage to defuse an allegation of stealing back in 6th ed when the owner found a clampack of tigurius that had the back ripped out and the mini stolen. I pointed out that one, nobody plays Ultramarines here, two, tigurius is one of the worst models in the game, and three, he came from the very bottom of a shelf and was stolen in exactly the manner that a child would steal something, i.e. not just the whole damn clampack that you could easily slip into a pocket and leave with.

 cuda1179 wrote:

3.Anyone that isn't careful with my stuff. I saw someone at the FLGS once brush his opponent's casualties off the board with his arm and into his hand and toss them across the table. They weren't even my models and I wanted to kill the guy.

Don't touch the opponent's miniatures should be 40k's rule number one. It is for me.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 XeonDragon wrote:

• Anyone that:
o has a problem with either of my daughters watching us play and asking questions, and practising our second (non-English) language (which they are much better at than me) or

People have a right to be wary of young kids hovering around expensive and easily breakable models. Now, your kids might not do that but a stranger does not know that. I've seen many a model be broken and/or go missing from curious hands and distracting kids.

That's fair enough, but by way of context my daughters are likely to ask question like 'what warlord traits does your captain have?' and 'Is that a relic blade?' or 'can I look at the drop pod after the game?', they have been around long enough to know not to touch, and regulars at my FLGS all know them

 Blndmage wrote:
I've had people threaten to out me, be maliciously and aggressively transphobic, and the FLGS backed the guy, as did the local 40k community, so unless I'm playing by myself, there's no one locally that I feel safe with, and no store that is safe.

That's super messed up and I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you find a good group to play with that accepts you for who you are and that don't feel the need to be hateful a**holes.


I'm usually pretty casual about who I play games with, while I always try to win a game I playing, I'm not a mega competitive person and as such bring lists that tournament players would describe as "sub-optimal" because most of my forces for my games are fluff based.

Generally the people I won't play against are people that have bad manners/are rude/aggressive/poor sportsmanship.

I don't really care if someone doesn't know the rules super well, is playing a competitive list, doesn't have a painted army, etc. as long as they are friendly and fun to play the game with.

Ideally I want to play with people who enjoy playing the game and are happy just to roll the dice whether they are rolling all 6s or all 1s.


From my experience, the Blood Bowl tournaments I've played in have been really awesome and all the folks I have played have been great. Most of the people I have played 40k with have been pretty cool, though a couple were probably the worst gamers I have ever encountered. Playing MtG I encountered a lot of people that were very socially awkward (mind you this was mostly 10+ years ago), but were generally pretty nice, Warcry and I Mordheim I have both had excellent experiences with.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I mean, Dakka is famous for it's double standards.

Uh...what? You know the post in question here is about attitudes towards transphobic views specifically and more generally about intolerance? Are you suggesting Dakka does allow transphobic views on its forum? I know sometimes the moderating isn't perfect (where is it perfect though?) but I have no idea where you get this idea of double standards from as far as this specific topic is concerned.

Back to the original topic, I think the only people I would refuse to play against are people I know I won't have a good time with. That's pretty vague and it covers a lot of areas but it's rare that any one specific thing is enough to make me annoyed enough not to play someone, beyond the really obvious things like outright cheating. In general it would come down to managing expectations. I'll happily play anyone from completely new player to a tournament veteran as long as I have a rough idea of what to expect from the game.

I very rarely refuse to play someone, but a general list of reasons would be:

Frequently cheating
Terrible sport(one threw a land raider when I killed it in the game)
Not fun to play against(person not the army)

When I see "competitive" army lists I see all kinds of fluff-destroying crap. A renowned Tau character leading an army of drones, a Chapter Master leading scout squads. You know, like those countless examples from real life where renowned heroes led an army of noobs.

Also, min-maxing and repetition. Pretty much the same thing as above but three squads of Centurions all with the same guns, three Troops choices all with the same guns, three heroes with the same powers and abilities. My first game against this opponent would probably be my last.

I am coming into this hobby to have fun using all the models I like regardless of whether they will win tournaments or not. Only one person can win a tournament. Therefore the focus is to enjoy myself, not turn into someone who complains a weapon or troop choice is overcosted by one point!

Sorry for the rant!

 NoPoet wrote:
When I see "competitive" army lists I see all kinds of fluff-destroying crap. A renowned Tau character leading an army of drones, a Chapter Master leading scout squads. You know, like those countless examples from real life where renowned heroes led an army of noobs.

Also, min-maxing and repetition. Pretty much the same thing as above but three squads of Centurions all with the same guns, three Troops choices all with the same guns, three heroes with the same powers and abilities. My first game against this opponent would probably be my last.

Like in real life, when renowned heroes always fight in the wars. I remember just recently the conflict in Libya when Barack Obama mounted up in his robot suit and duked it out with Gaddafi in the centre of a swirling melee to win the day!

...also, why is it unrealistic to have troops with all the same guns? Isn't that what you'd normally expect? All 3 of my storm guardian squads are identical, because there's really only 2 ways to play them and one of them just plays way better in my opinion (the one that turns them into an actual threat to tanks at close range) but it's not like thats a realism problem.

 aphyon wrote:

Zuwi wrote:
There is a player in my group I try to dodge as much as possible.
He is wailing crybaby when he loses and a arrogant prick when he wins.
I am living on the countryside and we have to drive 40-60 min for a match.
He has a tendace to surrender after the first or second turn if it is not going his way and that is an absolute no-go for me
I don´t want to drive over 1:30-2 hours just for one round

I remember a guy like that, he would copy/paste winning lists from tourneys in the 3rd/4th/5th era and try them on us....but he was really bad at execution of the tactics, so if he wasn't winning by turn 2/3 he would give up. we would have to coax him to play it out and often times he would have a comeback win.


As keyboard warriors here , we have the tendency to say things we would not say in person where we can gauge the mood in the room so i take everything said about social interactions with a bit of a hedge because often we only hear one side of the story.. as an example, i think it was maybe a year or two ago we had a new guy come into our FLGS and the big MTG guy, who is super helpful and a pretty cool dude, hooked the guy up with some of his decks and showed him the ropes.

The guy wanted him to come back and play more on a day the MTG guy could not...that whole real life thing getting in the way of gaming. the the new guy apparently got all offended and went on a rant on the stores page throwing out accusations of bigotry, homophobia and the like (i saw the posting) and we were all like WTF????? the MTG guy was baffled as he let the new guy use his stuff to learn how to play. personality conflict perhaps? who knows, but if you only read the rant you would think terrible things about the MTG guy and the store atmosphere. .

Did you happen to have, say, a couple dudes in the back cracking gay jokes?

Maybe someone who uses homophobic slurs as a description of literally anything that goes wrong for him in a game?

There's a lot of casual homophobia that can go on in a shop, from people who don't even think what they're saying is wrong.


Likely the guy would not speak out in public because, well, he'd rather not get beaten up, which is a thing that's a constant fear in the back of anyone's head if they're lgbt. Being outed among an unknown community? That's scary as gak.

Wow, after reading some of these, I now realize how much healthier my FLGS community really is!

stratigo wrote:

 aphyon wrote:

Zuwi wrote:
There is a player in my group I try to dodge as much as possible.
He is wailing crybaby when he loses and a arrogant prick when he wins.
I am living on the countryside and we have to drive 40-60 min for a match.
He has a tendace to surrender after the first or second turn if it is not going his way and that is an absolute no-go for me
I don´t want to drive over 1:30-2 hours just for one round

I remember a guy like that, he would copy/paste winning lists from tourneys in the 3rd/4th/5th era and try them on us....but he was really bad at execution of the tactics, so if he wasn't winning by turn 2/3 he would give up. we would have to coax him to play it out and often times he would have a comeback win.


As keyboard warriors here , we have the tendency to say things we would not say in person where we can gauge the mood in the room so i take everything said about social interactions with a bit of a hedge because often we only hear one side of the story.. as an example, i think it was maybe a year or two ago we had a new guy come into our FLGS and the big MTG guy, who is super helpful and a pretty cool dude, hooked the guy up with some of his decks and showed him the ropes.

The guy wanted him to come back and play more on a day the MTG guy could not...that whole real life thing getting in the way of gaming. the the new guy apparently got all offended and went on a rant on the stores page throwing out accusations of bigotry, homophobia and the like (i saw the posting) and we were all like WTF????? the MTG guy was baffled as he let the new guy use his stuff to learn how to play. personality conflict perhaps? who knows, but if you only read the rant you would think terrible things about the MTG guy and the store atmosphere. .

Did you happen to have, say, a couple dudes in the back cracking gay jokes?

Maybe someone who uses homophobic slurs as a description of literally anything that goes wrong for him in a game?

There's a lot of casual homophobia that can go on in a shop, from people who don't even think what they're saying is wrong.


Likely the guy would not speak out in public because, well, he'd rather not get beaten up, which is a thing that's a constant fear in the back of anyone's head if they're lgbt. Being outed among an unknown community? That's scary as gak.

I had never thought of that they would need to worry about being beaten up in a flgs just for being LGBT. The flgs in my area are very progressive and one has several openly LGBT players and the other has a few LGBT employees and I have yet to see that be an issue, I think someone spouting anti-LGBT comments or rhetoric would be much more at risk of facing an adverse reaction from the people at the flgs. I play on a very conservative part of the US and most people I know are surprisingly accepting of others, it sure why dakkadakka has me tagged with the wrong flag.

That would be another thing to add to the list of reasons I would refuse a game.

I've played against plenty of very right-wing opponents. This doesn't surprise me at all.

stratigo wrote:

 aphyon wrote:

Zuwi wrote:
There is a player in my group I try to dodge as much as possible.
He is wailing crybaby when he loses and a arrogant prick when he wins.
I am living on the countryside and we have to drive 40-60 min for a match.
He has a tendace to surrender after the first or second turn if it is not going his way and that is an absolute no-go for me
I don´t want to drive over 1:30-2 hours just for one round

I remember a guy like that, he would copy/paste winning lists from tourneys in the 3rd/4th/5th era and try them on us....but he was really bad at execution of the tactics, so if he wasn't winning by turn 2/3 he would give up. we would have to coax him to play it out and often times he would have a comeback win.


As keyboard warriors here , we have the tendency to say things we would not say in person where we can gauge the mood in the room so i take everything said about social interactions with a bit of a hedge because often we only hear one side of the story.. as an example, i think it was maybe a year or two ago we had a new guy come into our FLGS and the big MTG guy, who is super helpful and a pretty cool dude, hooked the guy up with some of his decks and showed him the ropes.

The guy wanted him to come back and play more on a day the MTG guy could not...that whole real life thing getting in the way of gaming. the the new guy apparently got all offended and went on a rant on the stores page throwing out accusations of bigotry, homophobia and the like (i saw the posting) and we were all like WTF????? the MTG guy was baffled as he let the new guy use his stuff to learn how to play. personality conflict perhaps? who knows, but if you only read the rant you would think terrible things about the MTG guy and the store atmosphere. .

Did you happen to have, say, a couple dudes in the back cracking gay jokes?

Maybe someone who uses homophobic slurs as a description of literally anything that goes wrong for him in a game?

There's a lot of casual homophobia that can go on in a shop, from people who don't even think what they're saying is wrong.


Likely the guy would not speak out in public because, well, he'd rather not get beaten up, which is a thing that's a constant fear in the back of anyone's head if they're lgbt. Being outed among an unknown community? That's scary as gak.

....well considering the best gay jokes come from the married gay couple who are regulars in our group (same goes for jewish jokes, my jewish friends have the best) and one of the full time employees at the store is also gay, you can kind of understand why we were surprised by the rant. the MTG group meets at one of the front tables so i wasn't really paying attention to the event when it all went down since mini gaming is more in the back of the game area.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
They play Space Marines.

feth that book(s)

given how common marine armies are you must not get many games.

This is what almost killed local 40k in my area before lockdown; people were just not wanting to play vs Marine armies.

Mate of mine, fanatical IH purist, took a look at the IH supplement when it came out. Started laughing in the midst of the store, put it back , runs now custom trait lads.

Why?

 Togusa wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
They play Space Marines.

feth that book(s)

given how common marine armies are you must not get many games.

This is what almost killed local 40k in my area before lockdown; people were just not wanting to play vs Marine armies.

Mate of mine, fanatical IH purist, took a look at the IH supplement when it came out. Started laughing in the midst of the store, put it back , runs now custom trait lads.

Why?

Because he isn't and wasn't interested in Broken matches due to balance Issues, he prefers close Battles decided on the game Table not the Table he wrote the list on. (His word's) And he felt that that supplement literally would not work that way.

He later after the nerf s still bought it but didn't really bother to field it outside Comp matches.

Many years ago I was playing in a "for funsies" 4k points apoc tourney, and one opponent plonked down a cardboard Imperator titan.

That was his army, 1 Imperator titan.

I was like "well, good luck with that' I'm gonna go grab lunch".

 aphyon wrote:

stratigo wrote:

 aphyon wrote:

Zuwi wrote:
There is a player in my group I try to dodge as much as possible.
He is wailing crybaby when he loses and a arrogant prick when he wins.
I am living on the countryside and we have to drive 40-60 min for a match.
He has a tendace to surrender after the first or second turn if it is not going his way and that is an absolute no-go for me
I don´t want to drive over 1:30-2 hours just for one round

I remember a guy like that, he would copy/paste winning lists from tourneys in the 3rd/4th/5th era and try them on us....but he was really bad at execution of the tactics, so if he wasn't winning by turn 2/3 he would give up. we would have to coax him to play it out and often times he would have a comeback win.


As keyboard warriors here , we have the tendency to say things we would not say in person where we can gauge the mood in the room so i take everything said about social interactions with a bit of a hedge because often we only hear one side of the story.. as an example, i think it was maybe a year or two ago we had a new guy come into our FLGS and the big MTG guy, who is super helpful and a pretty cool dude, hooked the guy up with some of his decks and showed him the ropes.

The guy wanted him to come back and play more on a day the MTG guy could not...that whole real life thing getting in the way of gaming. the the new guy apparently got all offended and went on a rant on the stores page throwing out accusations of bigotry, homophobia and the like (i saw the posting) and we were all like WTF????? the MTG guy was baffled as he let the new guy use his stuff to learn how to play. personality conflict perhaps? who knows, but if you only read the rant you would think terrible things about the MTG guy and the store atmosphere. .

Did you happen to have, say, a couple dudes in the back cracking gay jokes?

Maybe someone who uses homophobic slurs as a description of literally anything that goes wrong for him in a game?

There's a lot of casual homophobia that can go on in a shop, from people who don't even think what they're saying is wrong.


Likely the guy would not speak out in public because, well, he'd rather not get beaten up, which is a thing that's a constant fear in the back of anyone's head if they're lgbt. Being outed among an unknown community? That's scary as gak.

....well considering the best gay jokes come from the married gay couple who are regulars in our group (same goes for jewish jokes, my jewish friends have the best) and one of the full time employees at the store is also gay, you can kind of understand why we were surprised by the rant. the MTG group meets at one of the front tables so i wasn't really paying attention to the event when it all went down since mini gaming is more in the back of the game area.

When a person walks into the store, they get a snap shot of that instant, and maybe in that instant something has happened that isn't indicative of the overall culture, or in context isn't what it seems. But as an LGBT person, if I walk into a store and here some people cracking gay jokes, I can't know they are a self deprecating gay couple. And it takes an emotional effort to force yourself to stick around because, well, most people cracking gay jokes aren't gay people, and, like, that doesn't make it necessarily okay to make homophobic comments in any regard. There's actually interesting research that goes being people making fun of their ethnicity, religion, or sexuality as a defense mechanism and how that can itself get internalized and normalized.

And, so, especially in the context of modern America, it behooves someone to take a minority at least somewhat at their word and try and find out why exactly they felt discriminated against. And on occasion it really is nothing, but that occasion is much rarer than what a lot of people glibly assume.

stratigo wrote:


When a person walks into the store, they get a snap shot of that instant, and maybe in that instant something has happened that isn't indicative of the overall culture, or in context isn't what it seems. But as an LGBT person, if I walk into a store and here some people cracking gay jokes, I can't know they are a self deprecating gay couple. And it takes an emotional effort to force yourself to stick around because, well, most people cracking gay jokes aren't gay people, and, like, that doesn't make it necessarily okay to make homophobic comments in any regard. There's actually interesting research that goes being people making fun of their ethnicity, religion, or sexuality as a defense mechanism and how that can itself get internalized and normalized.

And, so, especially in the context of modern America, it behooves someone to take a minority at least somewhat at their word and try and find out why exactly they felt discriminated against. And on occasion it really is nothing, but that occasion is much rarer than what a lot of people glibly assume.

that's fair, though I daresay most people who make gay jokes aren't homophobic - they simply focus on the "joke" part of it. I myself am guilty of making jokes in which feature gay people, but I am in no way homophobic, and I make the joke because I think that the joke is funny - there's no subtext, and every person I know who's made such jokes does so for the joke, not the homophobia. It's the same as I am not anti-male when I make a "a man walks into a bar" joke, nor am I anti-Jehovah's witness when I make a "knock knock" joke, or racist for making an "an englishman, an irishman and a scotsman" joke.

I know that may not be representative of American groups, but in the UK I feel that getting offended by a joke is something of a joke itself. It's unfortunate that anyone, for any reason, feels that they have to be excluded from a group for the jests of those already in it. People shouldn't feel that they cannot have a joke, and people should not feel that they are unsafe around those that do. I would feel mortified if I found out that my making a joke had caused someone to leave for fear of prejudice.


Back on topic, I've never encountered people throwing or mishandling models. If anyone mistreated mine, I'd explain to them that if they did it again, I'd be packing up and leaving - or just pack up and leave, depending on the severity of it.

I concur with many here, I love playing newbies and they have been some of my funnest games. Kids are a case by case basis. I wouldn't write anyone off for being a particular age. I know some very mature 12 year olds and some very immature 40 year olds.

I'm normally quite easy going and I don't like hearsay and gossip. So normally I will have had to play the person myself or had some first hand experience with that person in order to not play them again.

Many have been covered here already, but for me its:

WAAC players. If your self worth comes from winning games of little plastic men you seriously need to reevaluate your life. Some of the funnest games I have played are ones I have lost. The fun of the game isn't the outcome it's the playing. On that note, the funnest games are the ones where you don't know which way it's going to turn out until the end. Sometimes something will happen and it can become clear that you are not likely or not going to win, but you should still play as that's not important (and also, miracles do happen sometimes ). I won't play people who rage quit or suddenly need to "leave early" because it's not going their way. Saying that, if one player happens to have a amazingly good round of shooting the first turn and absolutely decimates the other army, wiping out 90% of their army, I don't mind getting a pint and having a laugh about it or starting a new game if both parties are ok with it.

People who always bring super competitive lists. Soup, min/maxing, spamming particular units or just have things that are plain un-fluffy together, like a chapter master leading a battalion of scouts and some dreadnoughts with no other marines present.

People without a sense of humour. Half of this game is chatting and having a laugh while doing the tedious stuff like moving models and rolling multiple dice.

People with extreme political views and -phobias, regardless of whether they bring it up in game I just don't want to associate with such people.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

I am not going to refuse a game because my opponent has a good list or is better than me, that would be being a very poor sport about a game.

Or saving time for both and ensuring neither has to "enjoy" game with foregone conclusion.

Yeah. I don't understand that whole concept that if you refuse a game because your list is for fun and their list is ultra competitive, why refusing that game makes you a bad sport. Thats one of the more ridiculous things I have ever heard. There is zero fun to be had by getting tabled in a turn for either player.

That the insinuation of them having the better list also means they are better than me is also pretty funny, because it takes very little skill to copy an ITC netlist, and people do create for fun lists intentionally to use in... you know... for-fun games that aren't about exploiting the meta or the bad balance of the game.

 some bloke wrote:

stratigo wrote:


When a person walks into the store, they get a snap shot of that instant, and maybe in that instant something has happened that isn't indicative of the overall culture, or in context isn't what it seems. But as an LGBT person, if I walk into a store and here some people cracking gay jokes, I can't know they are a self deprecating gay couple. And it takes an emotional effort to force yourself to stick around because, well, most people cracking gay jokes aren't gay people, and, like, that doesn't make it necessarily okay to make homophobic comments in any regard. There's actually interesting research that goes being people making fun of their ethnicity, religion, or sexuality as a defense mechanism and how that can itself get internalized and normalized.

And, so, especially in the context of modern America, it behooves someone to take a minority at least somewhat at their word and try and find out why exactly they felt discriminated against. And on occasion it really is nothing, but that occasion is much rarer than what a lot of people glibly assume.

that's fair, though I daresay most people who make gay jokes aren't homophobic - they simply focus on the "joke" part of it. I myself am guilty of making jokes in which feature gay people, but I am in no way homophobic, and I make the joke because I think that the joke is funny - there's no subtext, and every person I know who's made such jokes does so for the joke, not the homophobia. It's the same as I am not anti-male when I make a "a man walks into a bar" joke, nor am I anti-Jehovah's witness when I make a "knock knock" joke, or racist for making an "an englishman, an irishman and a scotsman" joke.

I know that may not be representative of American groups, but in the UK I feel that getting offended by a joke is something of a joke itself. It's unfortunate that anyone, for any reason, feels that they have to be excluded from a group for the jests of those already in it. People shouldn't feel that they cannot have a joke, and people should not feel that they are unsafe around those that do. I would feel mortified if I found out that my making a joke had caused someone to leave for fear of prejudice.


Back on topic, I've never encountered people throwing or mishandling models. If anyone mistreated mine, I'd explain to them that if they did it again, I'd be packing up and leaving - or just pack up and leave, depending on the severity of it.

In my own experience from dealing with situations when I'm there, the explanation of "it was a joke and they got offended" tends to be about as gross an exaggeration as someone claiming religious bias against jehovah's witnesses or mormons because you made a "knock knock" joke. The ingredients you would tend to see when something is a "joke" - delivery style, intended audience, audience reaction - can be entirely absent and someone can still claim that something muttered at someone while they walk by them or a frustrated grumble about something going on during the game was "a joke."

If you're actually serious about creating a space that's good and inclusive to all categories of people and that space is for nerd/gaming stuff, you might think that means a lot of racism and homophobia but that's not the commonly discriminated against category of folks who most gravitate to tabletop wargaming communities. Odds are, take a random sampling of 25-50 people interested in congregating to play some DND or MTG or warhammer and your crowd is going to be a lot more neurodiverse than ethnically diverse. And a lot of the time those people are going to check a lot more boxes that make people think it's OK socially to gak on them - white, dudes, overweight, poor, not conventionally attractive.

And it's rare that you get to be put in a position where you have someone who is just a real huge blank-ist sack of crap or where you have someone totally making up stories for oppression points (I would say never on that latter one, but it certainly gets brought up enough that maybe it happens somewhere, I don't know). Much more often, you have to figure out how to square someone honestly making an honestly gakky comment who also has a condition that makes social judgement a lot more difficult for them.

And if that don't just suck.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 auticus wrote:
Yeah. I don't understand that whole concept that if you refuse a game because your list is for fun and their list is ultra competitive, why refusing that game makes you a bad sport. Thats one of the more ridiculous things I have ever heard. There is zero fun to be had by getting tabled in a turn for either player.

That the insinuation of them having the better list also means they are better than me is also pretty funny, because it takes very little skill to copy an ITC netlist, and people do create for fun lists intentionally to use in... you know... for-fun games that aren't about exploiting the meta or the bad balance of the game.

Yes folks please do this thing. You don't need to be all moralistic about it, just if you know someone brings a real competitive list, you've played them before and you know they're after some more serious practice for a local tournament and you don't play that sort of game, don't turn up to the table, have a completely one sided game and get real mad at each other. That'd be great.

Uhhh, big yikes on the "I make jokes about gay people but I don't mean anything by it" comments coming from some people. If you're not the marginalised group targeted by something, I'd respectfully suggest you shouldn't be appointing yourself the arbiter of how it's received by that group. And even if you are, it's probably a good idea to bear in mind that, in a public context (which includes a gaming store/club) not everyone's going to feel as chill about it as you are, tbh.

 auticus wrote:
Yeah. I don't understand that whole concept that if you refuse a game because your list is for fun and their list is ultra competitive, why refusing that game makes you a bad sport. Thats one of the more ridiculous things I have ever heard. There is zero fun to be had by getting tabled in a turn for either player.

That the insinuation of them having the better list also means they are better than me is also pretty funny, because it takes very little skill to copy an ITC netlist, and people do create for fun lists intentionally to use in... you know... for-fun games that aren't about exploiting the meta or the bad balance of the game.

Yep. Obviously don't be dick about refusing but politely refusing should be no issue. Nobody OWNS anybody a game. Gaming is voluntary and if game is walkover anyway what fun is it for either? Won't be even good practice game for tournament for the competive player...

 Nazrak wrote:
Uhhh, big yikes on the "I make jokes about gay people but I don't mean anything by it" comments coming from some people. If you're not the marginalised group targeted by something, I'd respectfully suggest you shouldn't be appointing yourself the arbiter of how it's received by that group. And even if you are, it's probably a good idea to bear in mind that, in a public context (which includes a gaming store/club) not everyone's going to feel as chill about it as you are, tbh.

Well you are in England where people get arrested for offending other people in public, things are a bit different here in the US where we have freedom of speech enshrined in our founding. most people don't care one way or the other. the old adage of live and let live. you have a right to be offensive or be offended (but i am sure you will get over it eventually). speech that everybody agrees with does not need protection.

The only speech not protected are communication of threats, inciting violence/panic, and slander/liable (but the burden of evidence is very high on that last part)

I stand by the moniker -you have the right to say what you want no matter how stupid, ignorant, crazy, mean or evil i think it is (so long as it doesn't violate the above) and i will fight to the death to defend your right to say it. by doing so i defend everybodies right to it. more speech not less is the proper path.

 Nazrak wrote:
Uhhh, big yikes on the "I make jokes about gay people but I don't mean anything by it" comments coming from some people. If you're not the marginalised group targeted by something, I'd respectfully suggest you shouldn't be appointing yourself the arbiter of how it's received by that group. And even if you are, it's probably a good idea to bear in mind that, in a public context (which includes a gaming store/club) not everyone's going to feel as chill about it as you are, tbh.

As a (begrudging) member of one of the said groups on the LGBTPIAQQWTFBBQ++ alphabet soup, I officially give everyone permission to make whatever jokes you find funny, because comedy is ALWAYS going to make someone the butt of the joke, whether it's a group of people, the person telling the joke, or the person being told the joke. Especially gay jokes, they love being the butt of the joke (get it, haha).

Happy now Nazrak?

 aphyon wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
Uhhh, big yikes on the "I make jokes about gay people but I don't mean anything by it" comments coming from some people. If you're not the marginalised group targeted by something, I'd respectfully suggest you shouldn't be appointing yourself the arbiter of how it's received by that group. And even if you are, it's probably a good idea to bear in mind that, in a public context (which includes a gaming store/club) not everyone's going to feel as chill about it as you are, tbh.

Well you are in England where people get arrested for offending other people in public, things are a bit different here in the US where we have freedom of speech enshrined in our founding. most people don't care one way or the other. the old adage of live and let live. you have a right to be offensive or be offended (but i am sure you will get over it eventually). speech that everybody agrees with does not need protection.

The only speech not protected are communication of threats, inciting violence/panic, and slander/liable (but the burden of evidence is very high on that last part)

I stand by the moniker -you have the right to say what you want no matter how stupid, ignorant, crazy, mean or evil i think it is (so long as it doesn't violate the above) and i will fight to the death to defend your right to say it. by doing so i defend everybodies right to it. more speech not less is the proper path.

The mistake you've made there is you've conflated "freedom of speech" with "I want to be an arsehole to people without being criticised for it". They're not the same thing at all.

Also, you seem to have got all your information re England from our gak right-wing press, which I'd advise you take with an extremely large grain of salt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
Uhhh, big yikes on the "I make jokes about gay people but I don't mean anything by it" comments coming from some people. If you're not the marginalised group targeted by something, I'd respectfully suggest you shouldn't be appointing yourself the arbiter of how it's received by that group. And even if you are, it's probably a good idea to bear in mind that, in a public context (which includes a gaming store/club) not everyone's going to feel as chill about it as you are, tbh.

As a (begrudging) member of one of the said groups on the LGBTPIAQQWTFBBQ++ alphabet soup, I officially give everyone permission to make whatever jokes you find funny, because comedy is ALWAYS going to make someone the butt of the joke, whether it's a group of people, the person telling the joke, or the person being told the joke. Especially gay jokes, they love being the butt of the joke (get it, haha).

Happy now Nazrak?

See my second point. Just because it doesn't bother you, that doesn't mean it doesn't bother anyone.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
Uhhh, big yikes on the "I make jokes about gay people but I don't mean anything by it" comments coming from some people. If you're not the marginalised group targeted by something, I'd respectfully suggest you shouldn't be appointing yourself the arbiter of how it's received by that group. And even if you are, it's probably a good idea to bear in mind that, in a public context (which includes a gaming store/club) not everyone's going to feel as chill about it as you are, tbh.

As a (begrudging) member of one of the said groups on the LGBTPIAQQWTFBBQ++ alphabet soup, I officially give everyone permission to make whatever jokes you find funny, because comedy is ALWAYS going to make someone the butt of the joke, whether it's a group of people, the person telling the joke, or the person being told the joke. Especially gay jokes, they love being the butt of the joke (get it, haha).

Happy now Nazrak?

On topic of the thread: BCBs attitude here is a reason I wouldn't play them. I don't find it fun playing with folks who have a terrible sense of humour and an oversensitive hair trigger to being asked to be polite.

I will game vs anyone - don’t mind what colour, creed or persuasion they are - might draw the line if they have to spit the dice onto the table to roll them, depends on how close it gets to me. Don’t even mind what army composition/completeness, so long as it’s legal and identifiable.
It is unfair if you single one group out for hatred - they may get the idea they are special. Hate everyone equally, then there is no predjudice. No one has the right to be unoffended - they might get the idea they are special. Remember, the Universe is big place, and no matter what happens, you will not be missed.

Moriarty wrote:

It is unfair if you single one group out for hatred - they may get the idea they are special. Hate everyone equally, then there is no predjudice. No one has the right to be unoffended - they might get the idea they are special. Remember, the Universe is big place, and no matter what happens, you will not be missed.

This sort of nihilistic edgelord defence may play ok in certain segments of the internet, but do it in real life and you're just being a dick to people for no reason.

Killing this thread before it gets really off the rails.