You've seen the awesome Marneus Calgar comic series, but we're proud to announce that we're continuing our partnership with Marvel Comics to bring you a series on the Sisters of Battle this August! Keep an eye out for more information.
Marvel Comics Division must really need the injection from GW if they are making another. It was my, perhaps wrong, understanding that Calgar was a flop.
Might be contractual, might have already paid for the run, or maybe it sold enough to warrant a small extra run. I thought the Calgar story was dreadful, but you can do only so much with space marines so not unexpected.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Marvel Comics Division must really need the injection from GW if they are making another. It was my, perhaps wrong, understanding that Calgar was a flop.
Well, Comic Books are a notoriously dead and unprofitable media, so...
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Marvel Comics Division must really need the injection from GW if they are making another. It was my, perhaps wrong, understanding that Calgar was a flop.
Well, Comic Books are a notoriously dead and unprofitable media, so...
Which is why the aptly named Bad Idea Comics baffles me. Why a publishing company would intentionally hamstring the actually profitable ways for stores to sell just to try and get back to feel of pre-Marvel bankruptcy stores and the practices that led to said bankruptcy is... well, I'll once again point out how apt the name is.
Well, I did read only the first volume of the last comic, but it was far better than what I expected from a Marneus Calgar comic. And I kinda liked that Crixus guy.
Marvel Comics seems to be printing a lot of random stuff that exists only to be pulped (as most of it cannot be returned), so a single, purported flop ain't gonna stop them.
Good luck with this one - SoB aren't exactly easy to write, even compared to Marines, and the cover doesn't inspire faith in the visual side of the product.
I genuinely thought the cover is nice, compared to the ultra-sanitized Calgar ones? Like, this would not be out of place in BL when they were going through their photoshop blur phase.
I think the cover is really class!
Is there any data supporting the assertion that Calgar was a flop, or is it anecdotal only? I thought it was okay-not great, but not terrible either.
grahamdbailey wrote: Is there any data supporting the assertion that Calgar was a flop, or is it anecdotal only? I thought it was okay-not great, but not terrible either.
I've not seen any, and it seemed to have done well enough to justify the GW store exclusive second print run (unless that was in the contract from the start).
Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong, but something seems quite off with the way the two sisters on either side are holding their bolters. It's as if they've been poorly added in afterwards and not properly meshed in with the rest, like the one on the right has her arms positioned in such a way that the bolter should not be facing in that direction and doesn't appear to actually be gripping anything with her other hand, while the left one isn't holding hers properly either
Mentlegen324 wrote: Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong, but something seems quite off with the way the two sisters on either side are holding their bolters.
Yeah - either there's an unseen side grip or just a poor hold on the magazine (or the artist sucks)?
Marvel doesn't look at how well comics sell off the shelf on initial runs, they look at how many the stores buy for the initial run. Shops usually order higher on issue number 1, cut back a couple on issue number two and even further on number 3 (by which time usually number one is out on the shelves and they can see how well a title is selling and either order more or less after that. If a shop sells Gaming materials too, they might think this will be a quick sale and bulk up on the number 1 orders, only to get shafted if the quality is bad. If a shop doesn't sell gaming or has little knowledge of it, then they may have heard about games workshop and think this might be the stepping stone to get into games and have ordered a bunch. With this being the second title in the line (I think), if it is a flop too I can see the end coming pretty quickly for the partnership.
Theophony wrote: Marvel doesn't look at how well comics sell off the shelf on initial runs, they look at how many the stores buy for the initial run. Shops usually order higher on issue number 1, cut back a couple on issue number two and even further on number 3 (by which time usually number one is out on the shelves and they can see how well a title is selling and either order more or less after that. If a shop sells Gaming materials too, they might think this will be a quick sale and bulk up on the number 1 orders, only to get shafted if the quality is bad. If a shop doesn't sell gaming or has little knowledge of it, then they may have heard about games workshop and think this might be the stepping stone to get into games and have ordered a bunch. With this being the second title in the line (I think), if it is a flop too I can see the end coming pretty quickly for the partnership.
First issue sold between 22k and 25k from the Distributor to the Retail fronts, but I couldnt find sales to individual customers.
Cronch wrote: The artist probably drew pistol poses, then got the notes how a bolter looks, and just...embiggened the pistol into a bolter.
That does seem like it might be the case, their poses look far more suitable for a pistol. I think it lets down the whole thing quite a lot really, just looks so poorly done.
Theophony wrote: Marvel doesn't look at how well comics sell off the shelf on initial runs, they look at how many the stores buy for the initial run. Shops usually order higher on issue number 1, cut back a couple on issue number two and even further on number 3 (by which time usually number one is out on the shelves and they can see how well a title is selling and either order more or less after that.
Marvel is somewhat infamous for overshipping issue one to stores even. I.e they ship more issues then what the stores actually bought (the extra issues are free but the stores have to eat the extra shipping cost). That's one reason for why orders drop so drastically after the first issues.
This is mostly for more prestigious titles though, so they might not do that for semi-obscure GW tie-ins.
First issue sold between 22k and 25k from the Distributor to the Retail fronts, but I couldnt find sales to individual customers.
In comics we can usually get the unit sales to comic shops through Diamond (I wonder if this will change with the new round of distributor chaos). You generally can't get sell through numbers, only the stores have that and they don't share. That number would also leave out digital sales which are direct.
For a miniseries TPB sales are also important.
With all those cavets 22k is not great for a first issue since #2 will be less than half that and it will decline from there.
But Marvel may want to keep a hold of the property hoping to find the right writer/artist/property combo. Could I see a 40k comic selling 100k copies, or becoming an evergreen hit with steady TPB sales, sure. And were I an editor I'd want to try a few times to find that combo.
Cronch wrote: Wow, 100k? I doubt there's that many warhammer players in the world...
These days 100k is kind of the ceiling for a US comic, that's like a new X-Men #1 level. Is it achievable for 40k, maybe.
IIRC White Dwarf circulation was around 100k for years, and then there are casual fans of novels and video games, lapsed fans and comic fans who'd pick it up as something cool.
I wonder what the number of app subscribers is or the starter set sales?
So let's say a Siege of Terra comic detailing the last hours on Horus' battle barge by an all-star comic team?
With the right marketing and distribution.
Then yeah, maybe.
And if I were Marvel that's the Brass Ring I'd be reaching for, demonstrate capacity, build an audience for Marvel 40k and go for it.
Cronch wrote: Wow, 100k? I doubt there's that many warhammer players in the world...
There has to be alot more than 100k players in the whole world? I mean there are Warhammer Youtube-channels with several hundred thousand subscribers.
I've definitely felt that the last couple of years of video games, novels and all the other non-gaming stuff have drawn in a few Warhammer-fans that don't even touch the miniatures. Not saying it's a big crowd but a Sisters Of Battle comicbook should be able to sell a 100k copies if it's well done and marketed.
Cronch wrote: Wow, 100k? I doubt there's that many warhammer players in the world...
And? You see '40K fans only' anywhere on the cover? There is plenty of female comic audience that would love to read well written comic with all-women badass cast, especially seeing 95% of comics are pure sausage fest. You grow the market by trying new things, not retreading same-same stuff appealing only to old, small minority that is way oversaturated at the moment.
Cronch wrote: The artist probably drew pistol poses, then got the notes how a bolter looks, and just...embiggened the pistol into a bolter.
Um, no. That's not how it works. Artists, who have really gakky deadlines, will combine stock poses (in this example, 'woman firing submachine gun') and clipart, 3D model of a weapon, to save time. Alas, GW probably insisted on their stupid, 'heroic' 3D models of bolters (and not thin, more realistic weapons some of their artists draw) and what is really reasonable pose now looks dumb because no real weapon has comical proportions/handling of brick bolters. Pistol? How? Literally none of them, especially top ones, look anything like handling any pistol I have ever seen...
Comics are a dying media, their age is long past us. Nobody buys physical comics. Nobody talks about physical comics. Nobody really gives a gak about physical comics. Even making them more 'diverse', which has been going since forever, with making established characters into women and minorities isn't remotely saving them. And personally? Good, the entire comic industry can go die in a fire.
Cronch wrote: Wow, 100k? I doubt there's that many warhammer players in the world...
100K players world wide would be a massively conservative underestimation of player numbers alone and I can tell you from past experience working at Barnes and Noble and selling tons of Black Library novels to people who admit to never playing that there are way more 40K FANS than there will ever be actual players. 100K people buying a #1 issue of a 40K comic would definitely be possible, but it's a very LOW possibility that has nothing to do with how many players of the game there are.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Comics are a dying media, their age is long past us. Nobody buys physical comics. Nobody talks about physical comics. Nobody really gives a gak about physical comics. Even making them more 'diverse', which has been going since forever, with making established characters into women and minorities isn't remotely saving them. And personally? Good, the entire comic industry can go die in a fire.
You seem to post a lot of very 'negative' posts in almost every GW thread (and the Wargames Atlantic thread). Your tagline is a diatribe against GW.
Why are you punishing yourself by continually leaping into everything in this industry that appears to leave you cold?
Anyhoo, stating opinion as fact doesn't make you correct.
I have been a regular reader of 2000AD since 1982 and have no intention on ending my hard copy subscription anytime soon.
Therefore, stating 'nobody' is incorrect. There is at least one person who reads and cares.
Care to expand on why the comics industry should 'die in a fire'?
You may be hiding some very good points that others haven't considered behind your contentious statements.
I mean, comics aren't dying. Mass produced superhero comics are, but indie stuff still sells.
and what is really reasonable pose now looks dumb because no real weapon has comical proportions/handling of brick bolters.
If I never touched a marvel comics your jedi mind-trick might've worked, but I've seen some of the absolute refrigerators that pass as handguns there so..
There's a lot to complain about mass print media comic books, from the utter disonance of some modern creators with the figures they work with.
To the questionable poltisation following out of above, or the flandersiation running whole ip's and charachters into the ground....
To just talentless writers and painters...
but being negativ for negativity sake... dunno ... i mean i am highly negative torwards gw as a company. doesn't mean i hate the IP, much less the tabletop Hobby.
You appear to be another reason why I don't take my enjoyable and secure job, my loving family and ability to breathe in the morning for granted. I am lucky and fortunate.
If you get your jollies trying to make people miserable, good luck but remember that behaviour breeds behaviour.
Cronch wrote: I mean, comics aren't dying. Mass produced superhero comics are, but indie stuff still sells.
and what is really reasonable pose now looks dumb because no real weapon has comical proportions/handling of brick bolters.
If I never touched a marvel comics your jedi mind-trick might've worked, but I've seen some of the absolute refrigerators that pass as handguns there so..
This is from The Fantastic Four. The best guess is that the artist (Rob Liefeld?) forgot Franklin was supposed to be holding a gun and added it later.
His Master's Voice wrote: You gotta add some qualifiers when you say 'comics are dying'. Manga seems to be thriving, and European comic industry is doing okay.
Dunno, maybe the US market is going down the drain, but even if it is, it doesn't really mean much globally.
The US market is doing fine, especially including indies and publishers like IDW. When people talk about "the comic industry dying", they really either mean super hero comics/the Big 2(and even then the vast majority of the time they really mean they don't like the direction they're going and justify it as the industry dying) or they mean the environment they're used to, ie. physical comics in a physical shop. Digital sale for comics are very healthy sales wise and most physical locations are keeping afloat by also offering Magic singles and/or selling the rare variants for secondary market prices online. "The comic industry is dying" is generally grognard for "I don't like change!"
beast_gts wrote: This is from The Fantastic Four. The best guess is that the artist (Rob Liefeld?) forgot Franklin was supposed to be holding a gun and added it later.
Spoiler:
Sometimes, I look at my portfolio and ask myself "why would anyone hire you?".
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Marvel Comics Division must really need the injection from GW if they are making another. It was my, perhaps wrong, understanding that Calgar was a flop.
Well, Comic Books are a notoriously dead and unprofitable media, so...
Which is why the aptly named Bad Idea Comics baffles me. Why a publishing company would intentionally hamstring the actually profitable ways for stores to sell just to try and get back to feel of pre-Marvel bankruptcy stores and the practices that led to said bankruptcy is... well, I'll once again point out how apt the name is.
I think thats kind of a questionable take - one could argue that the reason retailers are having to sell comics in such a manner is because publishers have made it that way through their own questionable practices (i.e. forcing retailers to buy x many copies of a comic that they won't sell in order to get 1 copy of a premium cover that can be sold at a higher price, etc.). In turn publishers are engaging in these practices because they are chasing the money from collectors and speculators as opposed to regular readers and are trying to promote artificial scarcity to encourage further speculation. In turn this alienates regular readers and fans, etc etc etc.
Bad Idea is trying to provide a product that is consumer friendly and profitable for itself and its retailers without engaging in the pro-collector/speculator practices that have largely alienated many comic readers and which remain largely unpopular with comic retailers - its not enough for them to simply provide the product though, they have to ensure that the existing business practices that have poisoned the industry are not utilized with it in order for it to work. Ultimately Bad Idea is an experiment, which is why IIRC theres only like a dozen or so stores selling their product in accordance with their policies.
Cronch wrote: Wow, 100k? I doubt there's that many warhammer players in the world...
There has to be alot more than 100k players in the whole world? I mean there are Warhammer Youtube-channels with several hundred thousand subscribers.
I've definitely felt that the last couple of years of video games, novels and all the other non-gaming stuff have drawn in a few Warhammer-fans that don't even touch the miniatures. Not saying it's a big crowd but a Sisters Of Battle comicbook should be able to sell a 100k copies if it's well done and marketed.
Yeah, I know, BIG if!
IIRC the initial print run of Indomitus (which sold out immediately) was like 120-170k copies or something like that, but a lot of people bought multiple copies so its not a clear indicator of how many actual customers there were. Unclear how many more copies were done as Made to Order, but it seems that the made to order wave was massively over-ordered considering how many copies of the damned thing seem to be floating around everywhere today.
Cronch wrote: Wow, 100k? I doubt there's that many warhammer players in the world...
100K players world wide would be a massively conservative underestimation of player numbers alone and I can tell you from past experience working at Barnes and Noble and selling tons of Black Library novels to people who admit to never playing that there are way more 40K FANS than there will ever be actual players. 100K people buying a #1 issue of a 40K comic would definitely be possible, but it's a very LOW possibility that has nothing to do with how many players of the game there are.
I think you're massively over-estimating the player count, keeping in mind theres lots of people who spend large sums of money on the minis but don't actually play the game.
The US market is doing fine, especially including indies and publishers like IDW. When people talk about "the comic industry dying", they really either mean super hero comics/the Big 2(and even then the vast majority of the time they really mean they don't like the direction they're going and justify it as the industry dying) or they mean the environment they're used to, ie. physical comics in a physical shop. Digital sale for comics are very healthy sales wise and most physical locations are keeping afloat by also offering Magic singles and/or selling the rare variants for secondary market prices online. "The comic industry is dying" is generally grognard for "I don't like change!"
Aye, digital comics and trade paperbacks sell really well, the individual paper issues that come out weekly or monthly or whatever? Not so much.
chaos0xomega wrote: Weird that (as far as I can tell) GW didn't post anything on Warcom.
Yeah, just a short post on the Warhammer 40,000 FB page. I wonder if it's something to be announced Saturday and they though it had been leaked somewhere?
chaos0xomega wrote: Weird that (as far as I can tell) GW didn't post anything on Warcom.
Yeah, just a short post on the Warhammer 40,000 FB page. I wonder if it's something to be announced Saturday and they though it had been leaked somewhere?
Survive the Grim Darkness of the Far Future with the Sisters of Battle in Marvel Comics’ New Warhammer 40,000 Series
'Warhammer 40,000: Sisters of Battle' #1 by Torunn Grønbekk and Edgar Salazar coming this August!
After the success of last year’s WARHAMMER 40,000: MARNEUS CALGAR comic book series, Marvel Comics and Games Workshop’s exciting collaboration will continue this August with WARHAMMER 40,000: SISTERS OF BATTLE #1!
Written by Torunn Grønbekk (The Mighty Valkyries) with art by Edgar Salazar (Uncanny X-Men), this latest team up will delight those familiar with the popular tabletop game phenomenon and serve as a perfect introduction for newcomers to the grim future of the 41st millennium that has captured the imagination of millions of fans around the world! The new series will tell an all-new action packed adventure of the sisterhood of warriors known as the Adepta Sororitas.
A squad of Adepta Sororitas, led by Canoness Veridyan arrive on planet Siscia to retrieve a lost Inquisitorial acolyte and put down a heretical uprising. As Novitiate Ghita’s first mission with her Order gets underway, what should be an easy mission turns into something much worse, as an unknown force deep within the subterranean city of the planet rears its ugly head! It’s no-holds-barred action, mystery, and daemons galore as the all-female fighting force lets bolters blaze and flamers scorch in this all-new saga!
A Warhammer 40,000 aficionado herself, here’s what Torunn Grønbekk had to say about working on WARHAMMER 40,000: SISTERS OF BATTLE:
“I'm beyond thrilled to continue Marvel's Warhammer 40,000 line with this new series. The Sisters of Battle are everything I adore about 40K. I love everything from their unflinching conviction to their brutal armory (hello, Exorcist!) to the creepiest of all servitors; the Cherub. We're in a universe where attack is the best defense and suffering is prayer, and I couldn't be happier to enter the battle with the Adepta Sororitas. (Expect many hymnals and a lot of dead heretics).
“I'm ever grateful for the opportunity to contribute a little piece of terror to the vast and unforgiving Warhammer 40K universe (and not only because the countless hours I spend painting miniatures can now be classified as 'research.' Thanks, Marvel)! Seeing the story come to life through the art of Edgar Salazar has been a true delight. It takes a particular talent to keep track of all the details essential to the 40K universe, and Edgar is next-level great. Combined with the colors of Arif Prianto, the grim darkness of the far future is brought to life in a style you've never seen before!"
Show your faith and fervor to the Emperor by joining Marvel Comics for the start of the next phase of WARHAMMER comics when WARHAMMER 40,000: SISTERS OF BATTLE #1 hits stands on August 18!
WARHAMMER 40,000: SISTERS OF BATTLE #1 (OF 5) Written by TORUNN GRØNBEKK Art by EDGAR SALAZAR with colors by ARIF PRIANTO Cover by DAVE WILKINS On Sale 8/18!
It's interesting that they've decided to go with Canoness Veridyan.
How do the comic licenses bleed over to the film licenses? Does this possible presage Disney planning a 40k film?
And yea, the two sisters to the left and right of the heavy bolter girl were definitely drawn with different weapons. The one on the right actually has a pretty good pistol stance if her left hand was wrapped around her right in a tight meld. Awful for a bolter, but yea.
Wehrkind wrote: How do the comic licenses bleed over to the film licenses? Does this possible presage Disney planning a 40k film?
They should be completely separate, but who knows... The rumours are that HBO is taking the live-action stuff (Eisenhorn) and GW is doing something themselves for the animated stuff (but hopefully we'll find out more on Saturday).
That's interesting, Eisenhorn would make a great HBO series with the right writers. They seem to be one of the few production groups that can get good writers...
Cronch wrote: The artist probably drew pistol poses, then got the notes how a bolter looks, and just...embiggened the pistol into a bolter.
Um, no. That's not how it works. Artists, who have really gakky deadlines, will combine stock poses (in this example, 'woman firing submachine gun') and clipart, 3D model of a weapon, to save time. Alas, GW probably insisted on their stupid, 'heroic' 3D models of bolters (and not thin, more realistic weapons some of their artists draw) and what is really reasonable pose now looks dumb because no real weapon has comical proportions/handling of brick bolters. Pistol? How? Literally none of them, especially top ones, look anything like handling any pistol I have ever seen...
Neither of the ones on either side of the Retributor are holding their weapons in a way that is suiatble for a large rifle, the hands we can't see aren't even gripping anything. The back two are fine, the front 2 have their hands in really weird positions, as well as the bolters themselves just not meshed in well.
beast_gts wrote: It's interesting that they've decided to go with Canoness Veridyan.
She's on the cover, so not really surprising.
Yes, but why her? She's not a BL character or a special character in-game, she's just the name given to a unique sculpt (although she is the first of the new SoB if you allow resin). Is she that recognisable?
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Marvel Comics Division must really need the injection from GW if they are making another. It was my, perhaps wrong, understanding that Calgar was a flop.
Well, Comic Books are a notoriously dead and unprofitable media, so...
Which is why the aptly named Bad Idea Comics baffles me. Why a publishing company would intentionally hamstring the actually profitable ways for stores to sell just to try and get back to feel of pre-Marvel bankruptcy stores and the practices that led to said bankruptcy is... well, I'll once again point out how apt the name is.
I think thats kind of a questionable take - one could argue that the reason retailers are having to sell comics in such a manner is because publishers have made it that way through their own questionable practices (i.e. forcing retailers to buy x many copies of a comic that they won't sell in order to get 1 copy of a premium cover that can be sold at a higher price, etc.). In turn publishers are engaging in these practices because they are chasing the money from collectors and speculators as opposed to regular readers and are trying to promote artificial scarcity to encourage further speculation. In turn this alienates regular readers and fans, etc etc etc.
Bad Idea is trying to provide a product that is consumer friendly and profitable for itself and its retailers without engaging in the pro-collector/speculator practices that have largely alienated many comic readers and which remain largely unpopular with comic retailers - its not enough for them to simply provide the product though, they have to ensure that the existing business practices that have poisoned the industry are not utilized with it in order for it to work. Ultimately Bad Idea is an experiment, which is why IIRC theres only like a dozen or so stores selling their product in accordance with their policies.
Cronch wrote: Wow, 100k? I doubt there's that many warhammer players in the world...
There has to be alot more than 100k players in the whole world? I mean there are Warhammer Youtube-channels with several hundred thousand subscribers.
I've definitely felt that the last couple of years of video games, novels and all the other non-gaming stuff have drawn in a few Warhammer-fans that don't even touch the miniatures. Not saying it's a big crowd but a Sisters Of Battle comicbook should be able to sell a 100k copies if it's well done and marketed.
Yeah, I know, BIG if!
IIRC the initial print run of Indomitus (which sold out immediately) was like 120-170k copies or something like that, but a lot of people bought multiple copies so its not a clear indicator of how many actual customers there were. Unclear how many more copies were done as Made to Order, but it seems that the made to order wave was massively over-ordered considering how many copies of the damned thing seem to be floating around everywhere today.
Cronch wrote: Wow, 100k? I doubt there's that many warhammer players in the world...
100K players world wide would be a massively conservative underestimation of player numbers alone and I can tell you from past experience working at Barnes and Noble and selling tons of Black Library novels to people who admit to never playing that there are way more 40K FANS than there will ever be actual players. 100K people buying a #1 issue of a 40K comic would definitely be possible, but it's a very LOW possibility that has nothing to do with how many players of the game there are.
I think you're massively over-estimating the player count, keeping in mind theres lots of people who spend large sums of money on the minis but don't actually play the game.
The US market is doing fine, especially including indies and publishers like IDW. When people talk about "the comic industry dying", they really either mean super hero comics/the Big 2(and even then the vast majority of the time they really mean they don't like the direction they're going and justify it as the industry dying) or they mean the environment they're used to, ie. physical comics in a physical shop. Digital sale for comics are very healthy sales wise and most physical locations are keeping afloat by also offering Magic singles and/or selling the rare variants for secondary market prices online. "The comic industry is dying" is generally grognard for "I don't like change!"
Aye, digital comics and trade paperbacks sell really well, the individual paper issues that come out weekly or monthly or whatever? Not so much.
Rather actually, digital only accounts for 10% of Dale's with comics. TPB do sell we.... in a sort of way depending. They make more a profit with less though. High sales on a new TPB or usually around 30-40k orders.
Something about those preview pages just seems a bit bland, there seems to be quite a lack of gothic-ness and the overall grim feeling of 40k (outside of the Sisters themselves).
Cronch wrote: Wow, 100k? I doubt there's that many warhammer players in the world...
Lots of people buy the black library books who have never held a miniature. The Horus Heresy were NYT Bestsellers for a couple years before GW made some changes.
Mentlegen324 wrote: Something about those preview pages just seems a bit bland, there seems to be quite a lack of gothic-ness and the overall grim feeling of 40k (outside of the Sisters themselves).
Bright colouring coupled with low contrast. Quite a few Leifeld moments too.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Sometimes I honestly look at a page of a comic and think, how the hell did this person get hired as a professional comic artist?
In many instances the answer is "because they can actually meet a deadline".
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Sometimes I honestly look at a page of a comic and think, how the hell did this person get hired as a professional comic artist?
In many instances the answer is "because they can actually meet a deadline".
Marvel's current page rates are not high enough to command professional artists at the level you may be accustomed to if you read comics in the 80s and 90s. They are sub-living wages for a single book, meaning if the artist is even mediocre they'll be hustling through it to get on to other work, and frankly many of those they employ do not rise to the level of mediocre.
This is cool. I like the art, Calgar was excellent so I'll likely pick this one up as well.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Comics are a dying media, their age is long past us. Nobody buys physical comics. Nobody talks about physical comics. Nobody really gives a gak about physical comics. Even making them more 'diverse', which has been going since forever, with making established characters into women and minorities isn't remotely saving them. And personally? Good, the entire comic industry can go die in a fire.
I buy them. And I know a lot of other people who do as well. Dude, why is it everything you comment on is dipped in rage?
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Comics are a dying media, their age is long past us. Nobody buys physical comics. Nobody talks about physical comics. Nobody really gives a gak about physical comics. Even making them more 'diverse', which has been going since forever, with making established characters into women and minorities isn't remotely saving them. And personally? Good, the entire comic industry can go die in a fire.
Yeah next thing you know they'll make Iron Man and Green Lantern into black dudes!
Oh.
Wait.
That was LITERALLY 40 years ago. So unless your glory days are from before most of us were born it's a bit late to complain.
And if they were, 40 years is a bit long to hold a grudge no?
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Sometimes I honestly look at a page of a comic and think, how the hell did this person get hired as a professional comic artist?
In many instances the answer is "because they can actually meet a deadline".
Marvel's current page rates are not high enough to command professional artists at the level you may be accustomed to if you read comics in the 80s and 90s. They are sub-living wages for a single book, meaning if the artist is even mediocre they'll be hustling through it to get on to other work, and frankly many of those they employ do not rise to the level of mediocre.
Exactly.
I'll also add into this, it looks so freaking bland and clean. That's the issue with this. Very generic and soulless. My expectations, while not to everyones' liking is a more Blanche or Goodwin style, a bit dirty and slightly chaotic. I know a comic ain't gonna replicate that exactly but give me something gritty ala TWD style.
The industry itself is weird. It's not dead or going to be, but the glory days are long gone and the people behind the scenes don't seem to know what to do with anything. An outright lazy editorial makes things worse as artist and writers seem to run amok. Meanwhile shops took a hard hit this year along with the rest of the industry. The good news is that Marvel decided to actually invest in itself (Meaning Disney got tired of idiots) and got them to change to Penguin from Diamond like DC has this past Summer, creating the hilarious situation in which Marvel employees publicly made fun of DC for switching, even going so far as making blank covers (A terrible idea) that said said something in support of Diamond. Diamond, a Maryland based company, sucks.
There's other things such as fan vs creator battles, other terrible PR, #1s and alt covers up the ass (and with diminishing returns for reboots), and many other things that don't really relate to this book.... well maybe that Calgar one given the writer for it.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: Sometimes I honestly look at a page of a comic and think, how the hell did this person get hired as a professional comic artist?
In many instances the answer is "because they can actually meet a deadline".
Marvel's current page rates are not high enough to command professional artists at the level you may be accustomed to if you read comics in the 80s and 90s. They are sub-living wages for a single book, meaning if the artist is even mediocre they'll be hustling through it to get on to other work, and frankly many of those they employ do not rise to the level of mediocre.
I'm not sure what standard of mediocre you're running on that knocking out an issue of a comic per month at the general standard comics companies hit nowadays doesn't qualify. We aren't talking 90's Liefeld here.
beast_gts wrote: It's interesting that they've decided to go with Canoness Veridyan.
She's on the cover, so not really surprising.
Yes, but why her? She's not a BL character or a special character in-game, she's just the name given to a unique sculpt (although she is the first of the new SoB if you allow resin). Is she that recognisable?
Veridyan is the single most recognizable character in all of 40k to people who don't play/read 40k stuff. We get so inundated in space marines that it's easy to forget that the 2nd edition sisters of battle codex cover and that big blanche battlefleet gothic ship are the face of 40k for a lot of people on the perimeter of the hobby.
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Togusa wrote: This is cool. I like the art, Calgar was excellent so I'll likely pick this one up as well.
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Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Comics are a dying media, their age is long past us. Nobody buys physical comics. Nobody talks about physical comics. Nobody really gives a gak about physical comics. Even making them more 'diverse', which has been going since forever, with making established characters into women and minorities isn't remotely saving them. And personally? Good, the entire comic industry can go die in a fire.
I buy them. And I know a lot of other people who do as well. Dude, why is it everything you comment on is dipped in rage?
I bet you a list of his most commonly viewed subreddits would probably answer that question. I mean, before they got banned/quarantined at least.
I enjoyed the Ephrael Stern comic, even if the art style was very Liefield-esque. That said I haven't read Marvel in a long time, not since the Brand New Day debacle. Didn't care for the art in the Calgar comic, this one looks okay I suppose.
Forgive me if it's been stated before, but the main character isn't some random Sister.
It's meant to be the sister from the infamous Blache artwork of her posing with very long legs on a pile of bones. (This was later made into a model, but sadly in finecast.)
GaroRobe wrote: Forgive me if it's been stated before, but the main character isn't some random Sister.
It's meant to be the sister from the infamous Blache artwork of her posing with very long legs on a pile of bones. (This was later made into a model, but sadly in finecast.)
Ahh yes the famous Long Legs Lucy.
In issue 3 marvel reveals how the real Long Legs Lucy was killed by chaos cultists and her humble squiress Short Shanks Shirly has to step out of the shadows to assume her identity, strike a pose, and save the galaxy.
ERJAK wrote: Veridyan is the single most recognizable character in all of 40k to people who don't play/read 40k stuff.
That's a very bold statement.
Yeah, I mean I remember when there was that great poster version that a couple gaming stores had way back when, but the idea that it's the most iconic whatever is silly. I imagine the box art for any edition appears in like a million more places in its run than that piece (which I like pretty well) ever has.
The difference is the 40 year old comics actually had editors and people who could tell a story. A lot of comics now a days are just - pictures, things happens, word bubbles-. There is no coherent plot, minor spelling and syntax errors aren't caught and oh yeah the big one..... the comic creators of yesteryear weren't in the newspaper editorial sections screaming there political allegiances and demonizing anyone who disagrees with them....oh yeah they where also not telling people who don't like said political beliefs to not buy their product. Now they are wondering why a lot of said audience isn't buying their products anymore?
The difference is the 40 year old comics actually had editors and people who could tell a story. A lot of comics now a days are just - pictures, things happens, word bubbles-. There is no coherent plot, minor spelling and syntax errors aren't caught and oh yeah the big one..... the comic creators of yesteryear weren't in the newspaper editorial sections screaming there political allegiances and demonizing anyone who disagrees with them....oh yeah they where also not telling people who don't like said political beliefs to not buy their product. Now they are wondering why a lot of said audience isn't buying their products anymore?
yeaaah comic books ain't political until recently tooooootally. ohh wait.. THEY WHERE
See that? Published in MARCH 1941, 9 months BEFORE the US entered WW2, the book effectively said "Nazi's are bad and the US should be in the war" that was a pretty strong political statement at the time
The difference is the 40 year old comics actually had editors and people who could tell a story. A lot of comics now a days are just - pictures, things happens, word bubbles-. There is no coherent plot, minor spelling and syntax errors aren't caught and oh yeah the big one..... the comic creators of yesteryear weren't in the newspaper editorial sections screaming there political allegiances and demonizing anyone who disagrees with them....oh yeah they where also not telling people who don't like said political beliefs to not buy their product. Now they are wondering why a lot of said audience isn't buying their products anymore?
Yeah... About that...
Also, everything is political. If you think something is not, it's usually just because the political views exposed there are the ones you hold.
Ah yes, the famously non-political, non-moralizing comics of yesteryear that live in the minds of people who apparently have problem not just with subtext but text too
FabricatorGeneralMike wrote: the comic creators of yesteryear weren't in the newspaper editorial sections screaming there political allegiances and demonizing anyone who disagrees with them....oh yeah they where also not telling people who don't like said political beliefs to not buy their product. Now they are wondering why a lot of said audience isn't buying their products anymore?
It was ok. I miss the buddy dynamic the Calgar comic had between him and the Tech Priest. The Inquisitor seems somewhat oddly ill informed or poor at his job so far but we’ll see.
FabricatorGeneralMike wrote: the comic creators of yesteryear weren't in the newspaper editorial sections screaming there political allegiances and demonizing anyone who disagrees with them....oh yeah they where also not telling people who don't like said political beliefs to not buy their product. Now they are wondering why a lot of said audience isn't buying their products anymore?
... you're being serious?
Oh, my sweet summer child.
honestly at this rate I think we need a name for people thinking progressive content in a medium is a new thing because the old material they've seen has been caught up with and is now mainstream thought even among more conservitive elements.
“Progressive” content isn’t new. It’s just been pervasive and invasive during these times, and many resent the fact that they can’t escape the constant moralizing and pontificating of “Woke” culture.
FabricatorGeneralMike wrote: the comic creators of yesteryear weren't in the newspaper editorial sections screaming there political allegiances and demonizing anyone who disagrees with them....oh yeah they where also not telling people who don't like said political beliefs to not buy their product. Now they are wondering why a lot of said audience isn't buying their products anymore?
... you're being serious?
Oh, my sweet summer child.
honestly at this rate I think we need a name for people thinking progressive content in a medium is a new thing because the old material they've seen has been caught up with and is now mainstream thought even among more conservitive elements.
lol, such a term would encompass the liberal activists working at Marvel who constantly tell us comics was a bigoted boys club and that with every issue they SHATTER YET ANOTHER GLASS CEILING. They are, quite literally, the biggest, most explicit proponents of the idea that comics were bigoted inside and outside before 2010. I am amused at normies/secret extremists who try to set the record straight to people who actually follow comics, "Well ACKSHUALLY comics have ALWAYS been political! Here just look at this one saying Nazis are bad in 1941. They really took strong stands! And here's Stan Lee saying be nice, he'd totally support Marvel writers who literally tell their own readers to go eff themselves on forums and Twitter, while also pleading with them to never buy their books. And he'd high five them for tanking their sales and watching idly as manga books took over their spot in the dwindling number of remaining comic book stores, right before they cancelled him." You all would be amazed at how much you don't know about some things when you are in fact completely ignorant about them, but trying to sound smart and good on the internet.
As to their Warhammer comics, total waste of time trying to reach a wider audience, or even a small sub-section of their own audience. Back when they still tracked comic sales, off-shoot books by Marvel and DC often didn't sell 10,000 copies to stores, and of course a sale to a store doesn't mean a sale to a customer. They'd be way better off doing mangas with a Japanese company. They may even make money doing them.
frankelee wrote: As to their Warhammer comics, total waste of time trying to reach a wider audience, or even a small sub-section of their own audience. Back when they still tracked comic sales, off-shoot books by Marvel and DC often didn't sell 10,000 copies to stores, and of course a sale to a store doesn't mean a sale to a customer. They'd be way better off doing mangas with a Japanese company. They may even make money doing them.
Back then meaning... what? June? Comic sales are being tracked still.
I guess in a month or two you could see approximate figures of the 40k comics.
That said, they probably could be better off doing manga, given mangakas tend to be even cheaper, and of course, B/W is cheaper to produce.
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Dread Master wrote: “Progressive” content isn’t new. It’s just been pervasive and invasive during these times, and many resent the fact that they can’t escape the constant moralizing and pontificating of “Woke” culture.
Cannot we have a thread about comics without the "They can't keep the politics out of my comics" crowd coming to put politics into my comic related threads?
Galas wrote: Cannot we have a thread about comics without the "They can't keep the politics out of my comics" crowd coming to put politics into my comic related threads?
what they're really upset about is "politics they don't agree with" anyway.
If comic book content is nothing but politics, race baiting, or antagonistic to half the readership, naturally all discussion about them will descend into political debate.
"Dont talk about politics!"
--Literally sell war propaganda pamphlets
Wasn't it revealed recently that Cap was a Hydra/Nazi agent all along anyway? Obviously he was pulling his punches in that picture.
Galas wrote: Cannot we have a thread about comics without the "They can't keep the politics out of my comics" crowd coming to put politics into my comic related threads?
what they're really upset about is "politics they don't agree with" anyway.
Indeed.
That you say this with absolutely no self awareness is the scary part.
BrianDavion wrote: honestly at this rate I think we need a name for people thinking progressive content in a medium is a new thing because the old material they've seen has been caught up with and is now mainstream thought even among more conservitive elements.
I believe the word you're looking for is "ignorant."
Also, I love that everyone's pointing out the politics of 20th c comics, but I think the 18th-19th c. need some love, like Hogarth and Topffer who basically formed the medium (in Europe) with moralizing satire, Goya's anti-war plates, and any number of early modern Japanese hipsters literally risking their necks to make fun of repressive/blundering authorities with their pulps.
Galas wrote: Cannot we have a thread about comics without the "They can't keep the politics out of my comics" crowd coming to put politics into my comic related threads?
what they're really upset about is "politics they don't agree with" anyway.
I bought a few days ago DC Comics' Dead Planet. No content of SJW politics. Just stay away from obvious trash and you will be fine.
Galas wrote: Cannot we have a thread about comics without the "They can't keep the politics out of my comics" crowd coming to put politics into my comic related threads?
I refuse to read this trash because is obviously a woke, SJW female reboot of the Calgar comic.
I base this on the fact there is a woman on the cover and nothing else.
I will stick with my classic non-political books like GI Joe, Captain America and Suicide Squad thank you very much
yeaaah comic books ain't political until recently tooooootally. ohh wait.. THEY WHERE
Spoiler:
See that? Published in MARCH 1941, 9 months BEFORE the US entered WW2, the book effectively said "Nazi's are bad and the US should be in the war" that was a pretty strong political statement at the time
I can't stand how all these young fans are all like "Old comics weren't political! It's only since March 1941 that they turned all woke!"
Not even.
Here's Superman in 1938 stopping a lynching.
Spoiler:
And in 1939 kidnapping two opposing generals and making them fight it out so their troops don't have to die.
Spoiler:
Harmless escapist fun no? Lynching and world wars certainly weren't big controversial issues in 1930s America.
I'd go back further but comic books literally did not exist much earlier than that. The first comic was 1933, but was just reprints of newspaper strips. The first that published original content wasn't till 1935.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: The first comic was 1933, but was just reprints of newspaper strips. The first that published original content wasn't till 1935.
First modern comic book. The strips were already comics, and there were many earlier books that are easily recognizable as comics. But yeah, there are so many "firsts" and it's hard to find gaps between new entertainment and those damned politics sneaking in. Superman which got real momentum going with that iconic car lift started with the fantasy of being a mild-mannered orphaned immigrant reporter with super powers he used to beat up mobsters and government corruption.
Avoiding the predictably pointless and circular discussion of whether science discovered political opinions before or after the year 2010, I'm not shocked at the lukewarm results of this comic, given that it was published by Marvel.
God only knows why this is, but I cannot think of a single time Marvel successfully created a compelling storyline which focused on ridiculousness and spectacle over proper characterization and personal stakes. In fact, some of Marvel's historically lowest-quality releases have been those which put their emphasis on shocking or wowing the audience (think Ultimatium and the Liefeld era, for instance). The only exceptions I can think of are the original Infinity Gauntlet and Spider-Verse stories, although even Spider-Verse is a direct continuation of the clearly personal drama between Peter and Ezekiel back in 2004. DC has a universally better track record when it comes to the action and explosions side of the industry, and, unlike Marvel, actually knows how to tell personal stories while still maintaining high-stakes situations. I'm not sure why GW made the decision to work with Marvel on this project over DC, especially since Disney is notoriously not the easiest for other companies to work with.
In the last few years Marvel has returned to licensed works in a big way.
Marvel's licensing was huge in the 70s and 80s (Conan, Star Wars, GI Joe were some of their top sellers) but from the 90s on they focused on their own IP.
Some of the licenses today are part of the greater Disney family (Star Wars again, Aliens now) but others are owned outside (Conan again, Stephen King) so I'd guess that they're happy to take the cash even if they don't own the IP.
As for the comics, I'll wait for reviews and the trade. I found Calgar fun, wasn't too impressed with the twist, I didn't feel like it added anything, but I wasn't annoyed either. 3 stars/5
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spiralingcadaver wrote: the fantasy of being a mild-mannered orphaned immigrant reporter with super powers he used to beat up mobsters and government corruption.
Weird huh. It's like all those Jewish immigrant kids writing and drawing comics had some kind of message they were trying to promote or something.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: In the last few years Marvel has returned to licensed works in a big way.
Marvel's licensing was huge in the 70s and 80s (Conan, Star Wars, GI Joe were some of their top sellers) but form the 90s on they focused on their own IP.
Some of the licenses today are part of the greater Disney family (Star Wars again, Aliens now) but others are owned outside (Conan again, Stephen King) so I'd guess that they're happy to take the cash even if they don't own the IP.
As for the comics, I'll wait for reviews and the trade. I found Calgar fun, wasn't too impressed with the twist, I didn't feel like it added anything, but I wasn't annoyed either. 3 stars/5
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spiralingcadaver wrote: the fantasy of being a mild-mannered orphaned immigrant reporter with super powers he used to beat up mobsters and government corruption.
Weird huh. It's like all those Jewish immigrant kids writing and drawing comics had some kind of message they were trying to promote or something.
a political message? in comic books? don't be silly, that;s a NEW thing!
GaroRobe wrote: Forgive me if it's been stated before, but the main character isn't some random Sister.
It's meant to be the sister from the infamous Blache artwork of her posing with very long legs on a pile of bones. (This was later made into a model, but sadly in finecast.)
Ahh yes the famous Long Legs Lucy.
In issue 3 marvel reveals how the real Long Legs Lucy was killed by chaos cultists and her humble squiress Short Shanks Shirly has to step out of the shadows to assume her identity, strike a pose, and save the galaxy.
The difference is the 40 year old comics actually had editors and people who could tell a story. A lot of comics now a days are just - pictures, things happens, word bubbles-. There is no coherent plot, minor spelling and syntax errors aren't caught and oh yeah the big one..... the comic creators of yesteryear weren't in the newspaper editorial sections screaming there political allegiances and demonizing anyone who disagrees with them....oh yeah they where also not telling people who don't like said political beliefs to not buy their product. Now they are wondering why a lot of said audience isn't buying their products anymore?
yeaaah comic books ain't political until recently tooooootally. ohh wait.. THEY WHERE
See that? Published in MARCH 1941, 9 months BEFORE the US entered WW2, the book effectively said "Nazi's are bad and the US should be in the war" that was a pretty strong political statement at the time
Man that is a boring cover. Everyone loves posting that one to prove comics are political but the real good one to show that they are political is this one.
Galas wrote: Cannot we have a thread about comics without the "They can't keep the politics out of my comics" crowd coming to put politics into my comic related threads?
I refuse to read this trash because is obviously a woke, SJW female reboot of the Calgar comic.
I base this on the fact there is a woman on the cover and nothing else.
I will stick with my classic non-political books like GI Joe, Captain America and Suicide Squad thank you very much
yeaaah comic books ain't political until recently tooooootally. ohh wait.. THEY WHERE
Spoiler:
See that? Published in MARCH 1941, 9 months BEFORE the US entered WW2, the book effectively said "Nazi's are bad and the US should be in the war" that was a pretty strong political statement at the time
I can't stand how all these young fans are all like "Old comics weren't political! It's only since March 1941 that they turned all woke!"
Not even.
Here's Superman in 1938 stopping a lynching.
Spoiler:
And in 1939 kidnapping two opposing generals and making them fight it out so their troops don't have to die.
Spoiler:
Harmless escapist fun no? Lynching and world wars certainly weren't big controversial issues in 1930s America.
I'd go back further but comic books literally did not exist much earlier than that. The first comic was 1933, but was just reprints of newspaper strips. The first that published original content wasn't till 1935.
Or stealing Indian... land.... O' no
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Albertorius wrote: I guess it's a good thing there were no predominantly black Axis powers...
Spoiler:
Dont ask that as you shall recieve.
It's not that comics are political, it is that inherently it doesn't make it a good comic. In fact, it could make it far worse or even the date the comic. You look at stuff like this and you can't say it isn't political. I think it is by far the resurgence of outright preachy books these days and caustic authors that if you don't like the book and offer any critic they will attack you.
It's not that comics are political, it is that inherently it doesn't make it a good comic. In fact, it could make it far worse or even the date the comic. You look at stuff like this and you can't say it isn't political. I think it is by far the resurgence of outright preachy books these days and caustic authors that if you don't like the book and offer any critic they will attack you.
Well... not what I asked, not what I received.
I also completely disagree that politics don't make for a good comic. Politics are part and parcel of human nature, and a comic devoid of it (or rather, devoid of any that don't agree with you) is, IMHO, a diminished product.
It's not that comics are political, it is that inherently it doesn't make it a good comic. In fact, it could make it far worse or even the date the comic. You look at stuff like this and you can't say it isn't political. I think it is by far the resurgence of outright preachy books these days and caustic authors that if you don't like the book and offer any critic they will attack you.
Well... not what I asked, not what I received.
I also completely disagree that politics don't make for a good comic. Politics are part and parcel of human nature, and a comic devoid of it (or rather, devoid of any that don't agree with you) is, IMHO, a diminished product.
Also impossible.
And you didn't read other, I said inherently it doesn't make it a good comic. Not that a comic with politics can't ever be good.
It's not that comics are political, it is that inherently it doesn't make it a good comic. In fact, it could make it far worse or even the date the comic. You look at stuff like this and you can't say it isn't political. I think it is by far the resurgence of outright preachy books these days and caustic authors that if you don't like the book and offer any critic they will attack you.
Well... not what I asked, not what I received.
I also completely disagree that politics don't make for a good comic. Politics are part and parcel of human nature, and a comic devoid of it (or rather, devoid of any that don't agree with you) is, IMHO, a diminished product.
Also impossible.
And you didn't read other, I said inherently it doesn't make it a good comic. Not that a comic with politics can't ever be good.
Nothing makes a comic inherently better, so... yeah? Also, water's wet.
It's not that comics are political, it is that inherently it doesn't make it a good comic. In fact, it could make it far worse or even the date the comic. You look at stuff like this and you can't say it isn't political. I think it is by far the resurgence of outright preachy books these days and caustic authors that if you don't like the book and offer any critic they will attack you.
Well... not what I asked, not what I received.
I also completely disagree that politics don't make for a good comic. Politics are part and parcel of human nature, and a comic devoid of it (or rather, devoid of any that don't agree with you) is, IMHO, a diminished product.
Also impossible.
And you didn't read other, I said inherently it doesn't make it a good comic. Not that a comic with politics can't ever be good.
Nothing makes a comic inherently better, so... yeah? Also, water's wet.
You still try and cover for yourself.
Politics is seen by several writers these days so inherent that they forget in all their preaching and screeching that you have to write a good story first. No one would give a crap about Watchmen if the story sucked.
Having a message of "murder is bad" or "war is bad" isn't political. Those are really stupid example of comics being political. I guess those are messages, and stories have messages. The problem isn't that comics today have a message, it's that the message is stupid. And the people writing the comic books are stupid, and don't write very good comic books because they care more about their stupid message than about making a good comic book. If you can only enjoy the story if you agree with the authors politics, it's a bad story and a bad author.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Having a message of "murder is bad" or "war is bad" isn't political. Those are really stupid example of comics being political. I guess those are messages, and stories have messages. The problem isn't that comics today have a message, it's that the message is stupid. And the people writing the comic books are stupid, and don't write very good comic books because they care more about their stupid message than about making a good comic book. If you can only enjoy the story if you agree with the authors politics, it's a bad story and a bad author.
Sure, you can write bad comic about any topic. You can write a comic that is an insightful allegory to an important social issue, or you can write one that is heavy handed and awkward. Similarly you can write a thrilling action adventure or formulaic and boring one.
So if inclusion of politics is a topic completely unrelated to quality, why it is even discussed?
Albino Squirrel wrote: Having a message of "murder is bad" or "war is bad" isn't political. Those are really stupid example of comics being political. I guess those are messages, and stories have messages. The problem isn't that comics today have a message, it's that the message is stupid. And the people writing the comic books are stupid, and don't write very good comic books because they care more about their stupid message than about making a good comic book. If you can only enjoy the story if you agree with the authors politics, it's a bad story and a bad author.
Very true, of course. If the only thing you're trying to do is peddle your political agenda it usually won't amount to a good story, and it would most probably be a screed.
I'm not sure I can say that of even a majority of people writing books nowadays or ever, though, and bad stories are not solely dependant on it being a political screed either. There's plenty of bad and/or stupid comics that are not screeds.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Having a message of "murder is bad" or "war is bad" isn't political. Those are really stupid example of comics being political. I guess those are messages, and stories have messages. The problem isn't that comics today have a message, it's that the message is stupid. And the people writing the comic books are stupid, and don't write very good comic books because they care more about their stupid message than about making a good comic book. If you can only enjoy the story if you agree with the authors politics, it's a bad story and a bad author.
No, just because you don't think it should be political doesn't mean it isn't political any more or less than saying something is based in science doesn't make it political. If you're publishing a statement for the public to read, it's already political.
People are capable of making inelegant, uninteresting, unpersuasive, unoriginal, exclusionary entertainment whether or not it's overtly political. Also, welcome to the 21st c., not everything is made for everyone to enjoy. Which of course was always the case, but some people didn't notice before. I don't like court dramas' themes and usually find them boring, that doesn't mean I pitch a fit or complain about "writers today," every time someone puts out or talks about a new movie about snarky or affected dead rich people problems because the story they wanted to tell hasn't catered to my interests or demographic. The idea of a universal audience is just some nonsense some critics came up with when they really liked books written by people like them and for people like them, and decided that since all those people generally agreed probably everyone important agreed.
I'll also add that using the defense of "You don't like it because you don't agree with ut" is both a bad defense and terrible logic. Especially then because then one could say in response "You like only because you agree with it."
Albino Squirrel wrote: Having a message of "murder is bad" or "war is bad" isn't political. Those are really stupid example of comics being political. I guess those are messages, and stories have messages. The problem isn't that comics today have a message, it's that the message is stupid. And the people writing the comic books are stupid, and don't write very good comic books because they care more about their stupid message than about making a good comic book. If you can only enjoy the story if you agree with the authors politics, it's a bad story and a bad author.
No, just because you don't think it should be political doesn't mean it isn't political any more or less than saying something is based in science doesn't make it political. If you're publishing a statement for the public to read, it's already political.
People are capable of making inelegant, uninteresting, unpersuasive, unoriginal, exclusionary entertainment whether or not it's overtly political. Also, welcome to the 21st c., not everything is made for everyone to enjoy. Which of course was always the case, but some people didn't notice before. I don't like court dramas' themes and usually find them boring, that doesn't mean I pitch a fit or complain about "writers today," every time someone puts out or talks about a new movie about snarky or affected dead rich people problems because the story they wanted to tell hasn't catered to my interests or demographic. The idea of a universal audience is just some nonsense some critics came up with when they really liked books written by people like them and for people like them, and decided that since all those people generally agreed probably everyone important agreed.
They never said that comics shouldn't be,
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'll also add once again without a pic as I am tired, there are comics where Capt. America is Union busting which is hilarious given by it was retconned by another writer due to their politics.
Goose LeChance wrote: I want to see Captain America tackle the morality of employers enforcing covid vaccines.
Pro or Anti?
He was on the side of anti hero registration. Who knows, I wouldn't buy. Cspan is already pretty bad after the Coates run and recent anniversary book has made it worse.
This whole thread is a perfect encapsulation of why literally no one likes comic book fans.
All any of you are doing is using complaining about comic books shilling for political ideologies as a vehicle for shilling for your OWN political ideologies. It's the fast 0-100 of hypocrisy I've ever seen.
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Goose LeChance wrote: Coates would have him kicking down the doors to people's homes and injecting it into their arms himself.
ERJAK wrote: This whole thread is a perfect encapsulation of why literally no one likes comic book fans.
All any of you are doing is using complaining about comic books shilling for political ideologies as a vehicle for shilling for your OWN political ideologies. It's the fast 0-100 of hypocrisy I've ever seen.
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Goose LeChance wrote: Coates would have him kicking down the doors to people's homes and injecting it into their arms himself.
Perfect example.
As previous other posters logic states you own comment shills your own political ideology
Automatically Appended Next Post: If of course everything is political XD and other garbage.
ERJAK wrote: This whole thread is a perfect encapsulation of why literally no one likes comic book fans.
All any of you are doing is using complaining about comic books shilling for political ideologies as a vehicle for shilling for your OWN political ideologies. It's the fast 0-100 of hypocrisy I've ever seen.
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Goose LeChance wrote: Coates would have him kicking down the doors to people's homes and injecting it into their arms himself.
Perfect example.
No, I just knew it would immediately make the "you only dislike it because you disagree with it" crowd really uncomfortable.
ERJAK wrote: This whole thread is a perfect encapsulation of why literally no one likes comic book fans.
All any of you are doing is using complaining about comic books shilling for political ideologies as a vehicle for shilling for your OWN political ideologies. It's the fast 0-100 of hypocrisy I've ever seen.
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Goose LeChance wrote: Coates would have him kicking down the doors to people's homes and injecting it into their arms himself.
Perfect example.
No, I just knew it would immediately make the "you only dislike it because you disagree with it" crowd really uncomfortable.
You want politics in comics? lets do this.
I already hated Civil War, agree or disagree, and the Cap being a nazi agent.
I can like a comic even if I loathe the politics exposed on it, or dislike a comic I agree with.
OTOH, I can't understand how wearing masks due to a global plague is supposed to be a political statement, so...
OTOH, I can't understand how wearing masks due to a global plague is supposed to be a political statement, so...
A teacher is told to take the vaccine or find another job.
Where does Captain America stand?
Bonus, teacher has a heart condition that puts her at risk potentially with the vaccine. She has talked with her doctor but is rather unsure of her heightened risk.
Now do we keep the Cap storynin the current tradition of whenever the writers political party doesn't win Cap befomes inexplicably disillusioned with America?
BlackoCatto wrote: Now do we keep the Cap storynin the current tradition of whenever the writers political party doesn't win Cap befomes inexplicably disillusioned with America?
Current? Heh
As I said, I could really see it go any one way, and you could give articulate thoughts, pros and cons to all POVs. And the inherent conflict between individual liberties versus the common good and sacrifices in hard times versus possible personal harm should allow for good storytelling one way or another.
OTOH, I can't understand how wearing masks due to a global plague is supposed to be a political statement, so...
A teacher is told to take the vaccine or find another job.
Where does Captain America stand?
Cap suffered from polio as a child is well understands the blessing vaccines are.
But he would never need to forcibly inject the teacher since he would give an inspiring speech complete with full color flashbacks and thousands of smiling children.
She would be moved to tears and inject herself.
Anyway I think we can call this thread a wrap. Though I would like a threat on either politics in comics or what's killing US comic sales.
OTOH, I can't understand how wearing masks due to a global plague is supposed to be a political statement, so...
A teacher is told to take the vaccine or find another job.
Where does Captain America stand?
Cap suffered from polio as a child is well understands the blessing vaccines are.
But he would never need to forcibly inject the teacher since he would give an inspiring speech complete with full color flashbacks and thousands of smiling children.
She would be moved to tears and inject herself.
Anyway I think we can call this thread a wrap. Though I would like a threat on either politics in comics or what's killing US comic sales.
