I think it’s amazing, I don’t know what it is but I think it’s better than anything they’ve released before. I know the rhino based vehicles were moulded decades ago but the new primaris vehicles were guff compared to this.

Do you agree? If not what’s your favourite vehicle?

Nothing beats the Exorcist (either one). Sorry.

No skulls, cathedrals, gibbets, cherubs...nah, this Votan stuff is like 10% WH40K 90% generic.

A neat model by itself, but 40K-wise I give another vote for Exorcists.

i find that it looks like a toy, might look better without the canopies on it

Nah. The TARDIS Squat Transporter stuffed inside (underneath?) a pretty bland lunar dune buggy doesn't really do much for me.

Still particularly fond of most of the rhino chassis (particularly the laser destroyer for some reason). And the IG hellhound.

I suspect I'll like the sicaran, but they have to release the bloody thing.

I feel like someone at GW just binge watched some Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors...

Voss wrote:
Nah. The TARDIS Squat Transporter stuffed inside (underneath?) a pretty bland lunar dune buggy doesn't really do much for me.

Still particularly fond of most of the rhino chassis (particularly the laser destroyer for some reason). And the IG hellhound.

I suspect I'll like the sicaran, but they have to release the bloody thing.

they come in pairs, two of them carry a squad of squats

Ummm......nooooo. Looks more "Moon Patrol" than 40k to me.

As for favorites: Legion Fellblade. Sweetest tank in 30k/40k. Second runner up: Dreadclaws. Particularly when they're on their flight stand: "It's coming to get you!".

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Voss wrote:
Nah. The TARDIS Squat Transporter stuffed inside (underneath?) a pretty bland lunar dune buggy doesn't really do much for me.

Still particularly fond of most of the rhino chassis (particularly the laser destroyer for some reason). And the IG hellhound.

I suspect I'll like the sicaran, but they have to release the bloody thing.

they come in pairs, two of them carry a squad of squats

OK? Not even remotely the issue*, but I'm sure the rules for that won't be fethed up at all.

*The cockpit takes up a full third of the vehicle, then there's another crew bubble and a turret and luggage, so I'm not sure where 10 or even 5 more suits of that chonky armor are going to go, let alone with people inside and gear attached.

Cyel wrote:
No skulls, cathedrals, gibbets, cherubs...nah, this Votan stuff is like 10% WH40K 90% generic.

A neat model by itself, but 40K-wise I give another vote for Exorcists.

This.
I'm really disappointed in the Votannites so far. They feel VERY generic, very sleek and very out of place in model range and lore in 40k.
I had hoped for something more.. dwarfen. More grudgy. More... 40k.
At this stage, the AoS dwarves look more 40k than the 40k dwarves.

As a lot of people seem to be - everything Votann just seems to be this weird melange of Space Marine, Ad Mech & Tau (and possibly nu Guard) that just feels like a fan project rather than a real GW model. There's this real lack of distinctiveness.

I mean this is a civilization that has jetbikes. Why are they sending souped up moon buggies out to fight?

Voss wrote:


OK? Not even remotely the issue*, but I'm sure the rules for that won't be fethed up at all.

*The cockpit takes up a full third of the vehicle, then there's another crew bubble and a turret and luggage, so I'm not sure where 10 or even 5 more suits of that chonky armor are going to go, let alone with people inside and gear attached.

You can't physically fit

10 marines in a rhino
6 wyches in a venom
12 guardians in a wave serpent
X units into Y transport

i was pointing out that because the squad is split in two, it helps sell the idea of it transporting them a bit more

 Thairne wrote:

Cyel wrote:
No skulls, cathedrals, gibbets, cherubs...nah, this Votan stuff is like 10% WH40K 90% generic.

A neat model by itself, but 40K-wise I give another vote for Exorcists.

This.
I'm really disappointed in the Votannites so far. They feel VERY generic, very sleek and very out of place in model range and lore in 40k.
I had hoped for something more.. dwarfen. More grudgy. More... 40k.
At this stage, the AoS dwarves look more 40k than the 40k dwarves.

I get that squats back in the day were round bois but I really REALLY wish they'd made them more angular and leaned more heavily into runic patterns and made everything more ornate. Y'know, like they were made by skilled craftsmen instead of Generic Armour Plate Unit C-B386-Y But nu-GW gotta have its large flat untextured surfaces for some reason.

I really like this vehicle, but it's not my fave.

For that I'm with Sim- the Exorcist old or new kicks butt.

As for the Votann aesthetic it may be "generic" in terms of what's available from 3rd party providers, but in terms of what's available from GW for 40k, there is no "generic," which means that as far as GW offerings go, it's a unique aesthetic.

They're chasing the fabled wider audience with this one. Classic sci-fi is something that has kinda been missing from the GW range.
And for a good reason - you can get that everywhere. But they felt they needed to close that gap.. Unfortunately they chose one faction I'd have been really interested in if they went more.. runic and dwarfy.
40k is unique in its design language(s)... They had a real good chance to make true space dwarfes, but opted for sleek, round, modern dwarfes whose females look like they want to fight the patriarchy and/or speak to the manager.

Ugh, no. Not even close to the best vehicle model ever. It's not the worse ever but it's a huge disappointment. Decades of waiting for squats to return and the best GW can do is a $90 happy meal toy?

I like the moon buggy design a lot but there is literally nothing about it that suggests space dwarfs to me.

 Thairne wrote:
Classic sci-fi is something that has kinda been missing from the GW range.

I was under the impression that the AdMech were GW's vehicle for that niche, considering things like the Robby The Robot-esque Kastelan, the Volkite ray guns, and the Burroughs-esque ornithopter.

The new LoV Sagitaur is clearly a direct ripoff of the drilling vehicle from the move Armageddon, right down to the chin-mounted machinegun. I'm not saying that's a terrible thing, but it leapt out at me when I saw it.

My favorite WH40K vehicle is the updated (current model) Land Raider. Granted, it has trouble earning back its points, but it just looks amazing. In AoS, the Kharadron Overlords airships are the coolest vehicle ever. In fact, if we could use Kharadron Overlords vehicles in WH40K, I would.

honestly between Votann armor sort of looking like zero from earth 2 and now this looking like the main vehicle from earth 2 with more mixed elements from other scfi channel series (they used same props for different shows as it was pre much cgi) I really think they are borrowing from mid 90's scifi series for a lot of this army

Looks ok.
Not the best, certainly not the worst....

I think my overall favorite 40k vehicle would be the SM dreadnaught - the boxy one, whatever it's in-game type is.
Runner up is the Thunderbolt Fighter.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Voss wrote:


OK? Not even remotely the issue*, but I'm sure the rules for that won't be fethed up at all.

*The cockpit takes up a full third of the vehicle, then there's another crew bubble and a turret and luggage, so I'm not sure where 10 or even 5 more suits of that chonky armor are going to go, let alone with people inside and gear attached.

You can't physically fit

10 marines in a rhino
6 wyches in a venom
12 guardians in a wave serpent
X units into Y transport

i was pointing out that because the squad is split in two, it helps sell the idea of it transporting them a bit more

No, it doesn't. It just sets up bizarro rules interactions.

No, most 40k transports can't fit exactly their max capacity in static models. But they at least look like they have transport capacity.
Unless the scale is way different from how it appears (in which case the driver is a fething giant in a massive cockpit), this vehicle appears to have a transport capacity of 0. Maybe 3 if you roll them up a hidden rear ramp like beer barrels.

Voss wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Voss wrote:


OK? Not even remotely the issue*, but I'm sure the rules for that won't be fethed up at all.

*The cockpit takes up a full third of the vehicle, then there's another crew bubble and a turret and luggage, so I'm not sure where 10 or even 5 more suits of that chonky armor are going to go, let alone with people inside and gear attached.

You can't physically fit

10 marines in a rhino
6 wyches in a venom
12 guardians in a wave serpent
X units into Y transport

i was pointing out that because the squad is split in two, it helps sell the idea of it transporting them a bit more

No, it doesn't. It just sets up bizarro rules interactions.

No, most 40k transports can't fit exactly their max capacity in static models. But they at least look like they have transport capacity.
Unless the scale is way different from how it appears (in which case the driver is a fething giant in a massive cockpit), this vehicle appears to have a transport capacity of 0. Maybe 3 if you roll them up a hidden rear ramp like beer barrels.

Considering the lore for the LoV so far? I totally wouldn't be surprised if this thing had some kind of an "improved" Eternity Gate.

Voss wrote:
No, most 40k transports can't fit exactly their max capacity in static models. But they at least look like they have transport capacity.
Unless the scale is way different from how it appears (in which case the driver is a fething giant in a massive cockpit), this vehicle appears to have a transport capacity of 0. Maybe 3 if you roll them up a hidden rear ramp like beer barrels.

Exactly. You can argue about whether a Rhino can fit the full 10 models or only 8 models but it is clearly a transport with some transport capacity. If 40k was true 28mm scale instead of having 28mm infantry next to 20mm tanks it would absolutely be able to carry its designated number of models. The $90 happy meal toy doesn't look like a transport at all, it's like GW designed a light scout tank and then at the last minute someone in the rules team decided the army needed a transport instead.

So a Bradley.

Too much 90s near future tech for me. Grew up seeing similar designs over and over, telly, movies and toys. I like it when GW cleverly uses it's influences and a sprinkling of nostalgia but this is too on the nose. Quite a lacking design compared to a lot of the new vehicles (Primaris not withstanding), much like the rest of the range.

The new Squat vehicle is pretty cool, but it's no Land Raider with FW Extra Armor on it.

mrFickle wrote:
I think it’s amazing, I don’t know what it is but I think it’s better than anything they’ve released before. I know the rhino based vehicles were moulded decades ago but the new primaris vehicles were guff compared to this.

Do you agree? If not what’s your favourite vehicle?

I like it a lot. Anxious to see how big it actually is when compared to other vehicles. Supposedly it operates in pairs, meaning there must be two of them in a box and I'm now wondering if it is closer in size to the GSC buggy than to something like a Rhino or Landraider. The weapons look really good on this one, not too obnoxious and well places on the model. The bubble windows are great and they reminde me more of SciFi mining vehicles, repurposed for other roles.

With that being said, I still think the absolute best vehicle in the entire game from a design standpoint The Proteus Landraider. It's an elegant thing of beauty and I am counting the days for the plastic kit reveal!

I love it, but best ever….don’t think so. Few contenders for that but it’s certainly got me excited for LoV.

The Votann feel like another Imperium force. Very much 60's SciFi feel, which I do like, but they don't go far enough.

They lack the feel of a xenos faction.

That's because they aren't Xenos? They're a human-derived culture from the Age of Strife.

Hasn't the IoM treated past encounters with tech advanced humans with their typical xenophobic mindset and outright scorched earthd them?

Also, hooray, another Imperium army. I haven't really been following the lore, just now realized a bunch of models have been shown.

No the Imperium tends to try to absorb them to gain their tech.
Also no the Leagues aren't an Imperial faction, they are human-derived but not Imperial aligned.

So, I wonder where they sit the the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos?
Do we have our first UNALIGNED faction, finally?

I honestly find the League’s vehicles to be unimaginative. That said I’ll admit I don’t like any of the line or the faction itself so I’m probably biased.

Y'all are just bitter that the model is going to waste so much plastic on two drivers and two cockpits.

I mean, we all know how many tournament forces are going to have "tinted" cockpits...

I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

Embarrassing design looks like a remote control moonbuggy. It becomes even more embarrassing when they claim its a transport. Like come on you can explain away the arechaoopter becuse admech can probably fold up but where the hell are they going to put all the dwarfs? This faction dosent look to belong in the setting. 40k artist need to look twords making things gritty and realistic they need to knock it off with all this snow white cartoon design garbage we can get that anywhere I want gime dark and I want it to look plasable.


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They may as well be imperial they are just offshoot humans that haven't fallen to chaos so basically imperialis just lame er


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also they make no sense? Been around for thousands of years but haven't been absorbed or destroyed by the Imperium? Like wtf this isent dumb ass age of sigmar where ne faction can just sprout up anywhere.

My main issue with this model is that I keep seeing this LEGO kit every time I go to one of my local supermarkets, and what has been seen cannot be unseen...

mrFickle wrote:
I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

I can't recall every seeing proper space dwarfs anywhere. If you google "space dwarf" it just shows you pictures that look like...well they look like its where GW got its Votann designs from, honestly.

 Sim-Life wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

I can't recall every seeing proper space dwarfs anywhere. If you google "space dwarf" it just shows you pictures that look like...well they look like its where GW got its Votann designs from, honestly.

Squats

mrFickle wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

I can't recall every seeing proper space dwarfs anywhere. If you google "space dwarf" it just shows you pictures that look like...well they look like its where GW got its Votann designs from, honestly.

Squats

In what way did they look like proper Space Dwarfs? Only their leaders and massive superheavy vehicles had any Dwarf ornamentation.

mrFickle wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

I can't recall every seeing proper space dwarfs anywhere. If you google "space dwarf" it just shows you pictures that look like...well they look like its where GW got its Votann designs from, honestly.

Squats

Yes I see what you mean. Look at all those runes and mining paraphernalia.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

mrFickle wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

I can't recall every seeing proper space dwarfs anywhere. If you google "space dwarf" it just shows you pictures that look like...well they look like its where GW got its Votann designs from, honestly.

Squats

In what way did they look like proper Space Dwarfs? Only their leaders and massive superheavy vehicles had any Dwarf ornamentation.

Don’t bring your belt buckle crap to this thread too, not the place.


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 Blndmage wrote:
So, I wonder where they sit the the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos?
Do we have our first UNALIGNED faction, finally?

You call that the “classic” but to us old sweats, that’s a new-fangled notion that everything must fit into those brackets. The classic idea is that everything is bad and everything is a threat. Squats or the leagues as they were known back then (not just votann) were always set aside from the imperium, but not against it. This isn’t new lore breaking fluff, it was ever thus. They have just fleshed out the squat back ground and redesigned the look. The fundamentals are he same.

Andykp wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

mrFickle wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

I can't recall every seeing proper space dwarfs anywhere. If you google "space dwarf" it just shows you pictures that look like...well they look like its where GW got its Votann designs from, honestly.

Squats

In what way did they look like proper Space Dwarfs? Only their leaders and massive superheavy vehicles had any Dwarf ornamentation.

Don’t bring your belt buckle crap to this thread too, not the place.

Considering what's being discussed is the look of the Leagues/Squats...yeah, it would be the place to mention the level of ornamentation.

That vehicle, to me looks amazing, I know it’s all subjective but I like the 60s moonbuggy vibe, it fits with what we have seen so far of them, it isn’t like anything else in the setting. I love the rugged thick tubed chassis exposed, like an exo-chassis if you will. My only issue is the heavy bolter things sticking out in front but I will clip them back and have sit behind the armour plate on the floor pan, easy. They don’t look fixed to me but mounted on a small turret but time will tell on that one. It’s bloody brilliant. I wasn’t 100% on the trike, that felt like the were trying for nostalgia too much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Andykp wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

mrFickle wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

I can't recall every seeing proper space dwarfs anywhere. If you google "space dwarf" it just shows you pictures that look like...well they look like its where GW got its Votann designs from, honestly.

Squats

In what way did they look like proper Space Dwarfs? Only their leaders and massive superheavy vehicles had any Dwarf ornamentation.

Don’t bring your belt buckle crap to this thread too, not the place.

Why, are you going to misconstrue what's said as usual? And considering what's being discussed is the look of the Leagues/Squats...yeah, it would be the place to mention the level of ornamentation.

You already have the news and rumours page to discuss that at length, and do. No need derail every thread with your desire for Celtic knot work and ornate belt buckles. As for misconstruing your statement, I was being deliberately flippant - but 90 pages of you asking for the LoV to have more dwarf stuff on them is plenty thanks.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

mrFickle wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

I can't recall every seeing proper space dwarfs anywhere. If you google "space dwarf" it just shows you pictures that look like...well they look like its where GW got its Votann designs from, honestly.

Squats

In what way did they look like proper Space Dwarfs? Only their leaders and massive superheavy vehicles had any Dwarf ornamentation.

I don’t think there is such a thing as a proper space dwarf, is there? But the use of the term space dwarf or dwarfs in space , with squats refers to the fact that the original squats didn’t really have any purpose other than to move the full fantasy race clichés into the sci-fi setting. The LOV have purpose and forethought for existing in the 40K universe (it seems so far). However these guys look pretty fantasy dwarfs in space. Axes beards, heavy machinery, hammer sigils reflective their culture of practical labour and so on. Perhaps it was better reflected better in Epic 40K where I think squats were more of a presence




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Oh and don’t forget the hatred of Orcs and goblins

mrFickle wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

mrFickle wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

I can't recall every seeing proper space dwarfs anywhere. If you google "space dwarf" it just shows you pictures that look like...well they look like its where GW got its Votann designs from, honestly.

Squats

In what way did they look like proper Space Dwarfs? Only their leaders and massive superheavy vehicles had any Dwarf ornamentation.

I don’t think there is such a thing as a proper space dwarf, is there? But the use of the term space dwarf or dwarfs in space , with squats refers to the fact that the original squats didn’t really have any purpose other than to move the full fantasy race clichés into the sci-fi setting. The LOV have purpose and forethought for existing in the 40K universe (it seems so far). However these guys look pretty fantasy dwarfs in space. Axes beards, heavy machinery, hammer sigils reflective their culture of practical labour and so on. Perhaps it was better reflected better in Epic 40K where I think squats were more of a presence

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and don’t forget the hatred of Orcs and goblins

There shouldn't really a distinction between how a "Fantasy Dwarf" and "Space Dwarf" should be though. They're both based on the same Dwarf Archetype, the cultural and aesthetic side of them should be broadly similar because they're just what makes them Dwarfs.

The Leagues are definitely still just as much Space Dwarfs as the Squats were in terms of their lore; a race of short hardy stoic bearded "humans" with very long lives, who are master craftsmen, engineers and Miners, who reverse their ancestors and are proud of their heritage with their culture being an important part of their society, who hold grudges, dislike Elves and enjoy drinking beer, use Norse-mythology based names and have aesthetics that involve Nordic patterns, runes, other bits of elaborate metalwork and even have the same sort of Dwarf Head icon as WHFB Dwarfs, AOS Fyreslayers and Kharadron.

It's just, for some reason, the Dwarf side of their look has been minimized to such as extent it feels like it's just been stuck on as an afterthought. I think the Gambesons, hats, coats, various sigils and badges etc of the original Squats do give across much more of a gritty, hardy, stoic Space Dwarf feel compared to the high-tech look of the Leagues. Even Grendl felt much better and he is a mix of both the Leagues and the Classic Squat aesthetics.

I’m impressed by its design.

It clearly looks Imperial Adjacent, as it should as they do share a broadly common lineage.

But, it looks like a Mission Specific Design, rather than an adaptation of something else as we so often see in Imperial Vehicles.

Lots of interesting little design cues, sharing elements with Van Saar, but also that Ad Mech Flyer’s canopy.

Most impressively those design cues don’t result in a mishmash, but a unique looking whole.

 Blndmage wrote:
So, I wonder where they sit the the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos?
Do we have our first UNALIGNED faction, finally?

Yeah? That was one of the first things GW said the faction would be. It could align with the Imperium (not sure about certain Xenos) but it was very much not part of the Imperium.

I kind of like the idea of a human-like but not Imperium faction.

Their design looks more like "modern sci-fi", similar to how Tau has a very sleek "futuristic military" feel compared to the Imperium.

The Leagues are sleek because that's what DAoT humanity used.
The Imperium uses poor imitations and jury-rigged repairs of that tech whereas the Leagues are using the hard copy versions. It's a look at what humanity was compared to what the Imperium became.

I like the moon buggy well enough as its own thing. It's hardly the best vehicle GW ever made. My choice for that would be the Vindicator or Spartan.

 Gert wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:
So, I wonder where they sit the the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos?
Do we have our first UNALIGNED faction, finally?

Yeah? That was one of the first things GW said the faction would be. It could align with the Imperium (not sure about certain Xenos) but it was very much not part of the Imperium.

Maybe GW will expand "the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos" to the new, improved and instant classic 40k quadharumphiate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos and Stuff. You know, just to avoid having to deal with unforeseen interactions with the Unaligned keyword that's only been used for terrain so far.

I for one welcome our new "Stuff" overlords.

Or they can drop that silly faction keyword thing and go back to how it was prior to 8th ed. It was a lot more free-form back then.

The faction keyword is only really relevant to imperials anyway because they have a ridiculous number of sub-factions, and that could just be addressed with a simple "Forces of the Imperium" rule instead of a keyword.

Leagues of Votann are starting to look like a modern StarCom re-boot to me.

I think I finally figured out what the new squad vehicle looks like, at least to me, the MT-101 Armoured Mining Unit:



Like, scale it down a bit and it's almost exactly the same.


And this got me thinking, I honestly would like the squats more if they went a more Lego Mars Mission route, you get mining, classic astronaut aesthetic, and heavily armed all at once. Some examples:



First example, the MT-21 Mobile Mining unit. It's small, and designed primarily for drilling with a rocket-launcher just in case. This would perfectly work as a light transport, carrying a squad or so and deploying them quickly. It's clearly mining equipment, but it's armed enough that it can be used in a military role. It also has a deployable robot, (or in the Votaan's case, an ironkin) and I'm sure rules can be made for that.



Or this one, the MT-61 Crystal Reaper. It's a large tracked vehicle, with saws/scoops for crushing and scooping up rubble, ores, etc, and small grappling arms. In addition, it's got guns and missiles on-top. It's cockpit can also turn into a tiny jet for escape purposes. This could be a neat unit-gimmick, perhaps once you kill the vehicle, the jet deploys, denying the enemy kill VP or secondaries until you kill the little jet too. The same could be done for the little truck that rides in the back.

In the end, this brings me to my main point, this is what the Votaan should have been, IMO. If you pitched to me: "Space dwarf miners in 40k, that are more advanced than the Imperium, with a classic astronaut look", this is where my head would be at. Heavy mining equipment, armed to the teeth, and ready to crush and destroy anyone who gets in the way of payday. I mean, they even have a trike for crying out loud!



Heck, all this mining gear could give them a unique niche of melee vehicles, a niche that hasn't been tapped much. I can only think of 2-3 factions that have actual melee weapons on their vehicles (orks, GSC and guard if you count termites and the Hades breaching drill) and even then, none of that really defines their vehicles. Votaan vehicles loaded up with drills, rock-cutters and more would be striking to me, and would give them a unique gameplay niche. Maybe have smaller deployable vehicles on the big rigs further giving them a niche in gameplay.

I geuss what this long-rambling post is trying to say, is that, while I don't necessarily dislike this new direction, my goodness is the execution bland.

 Geifer wrote:
I like the moon buggy well enough as its own thing. It's hardly the best vehicle GW ever made. My choice for that would be the Vindicator or Spartan.

 Gert wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:
So, I wonder where they sit the the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos?
Do we have our first UNALIGNED faction, finally?

Yeah? That was one of the first things GW said the faction would be. It could align with the Imperium (not sure about certain Xenos) but it was very much not part of the Imperium.

Maybe GW will expand "the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos" to the new, improved and instant classic 40k quadharumphiate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos and Stuff. You know, just to avoid having to deal with unforeseen interactions with the Unaligned keyword that's only been used for terrain so far.

There's also a # of units/models from Blackstone Fortress that have the "Unaligned" KW. The Zoat, the Ambull, the Boreworm infestation, two types of drones.....

Aw man Mars Mission. Good times.

ccs wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
I like the moon buggy well enough as its own thing. It's hardly the best vehicle GW ever made. My choice for that would be the Vindicator or Spartan.

 Gert wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:
So, I wonder where they sit the the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos?
Do we have our first UNALIGNED faction, finally?

Yeah? That was one of the first things GW said the faction would be. It could align with the Imperium (not sure about certain Xenos) but it was very much not part of the Imperium.

Maybe GW will expand "the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos" to the new, improved and instant classic 40k quadharumphiate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos and Stuff. You know, just to avoid having to deal with unforeseen interactions with the Unaligned keyword that's only been used for terrain so far.

There's also a # of units/models from Blackstone Fortress that have the "Unaligned" KW. The Zoat, the Ambull, the Boreworm infestation, two types of drones.....

This is an interesting point, although LOV are incredibly secretive about many things there’s no reaso. To believe that they aren’t in good terms and maybe even live along side some alien species like the tau. Ones that are particularly suited to living near the core. Could make for some interesting additions to their army.

ccs wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
I like the moon buggy well enough as its own thing. It's hardly the best vehicle GW ever made. My choice for that would be the Vindicator or Spartan.

 Gert wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:
So, I wonder where they sit the the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos?
Do we have our first UNALIGNED faction, finally?

Yeah? That was one of the first things GW said the faction would be. It could align with the Imperium (not sure about certain Xenos) but it was very much not part of the Imperium.

Maybe GW will expand "the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos" to the new, improved and instant classic 40k quadharumphiate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos and Stuff. You know, just to avoid having to deal with unforeseen interactions with the Unaligned keyword that's only been used for terrain so far.

There's also a # of units/models from Blackstone Fortress that have the "Unaligned" KW. The Zoat, the Ambull, the Boreworm infestation, two types of drones.....

Good to know. I never had a reason to look at their rules. Heh, I never even saw the Zoat in stock. I might have actually bought one.

ccs wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
I like the moon buggy well enough as its own thing. It's hardly the best vehicle GW ever made. My choice for that would be the Vindicator or Spartan.

 Gert wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:
So, I wonder where they sit the the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos?
Do we have our first UNALIGNED faction, finally?

Yeah? That was one of the first things GW said the faction would be. It could align with the Imperium (not sure about certain Xenos) but it was very much not part of the Imperium.

Maybe GW will expand "the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos" to the new, improved and instant classic 40k quadharumphiate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos and Stuff. You know, just to avoid having to deal with unforeseen interactions with the Unaligned keyword that's only been used for terrain so far.

There's also a # of units/models from Blackstone Fortress that have the "Unaligned" KW. The Zoat, the Ambull, the Boreworm infestation, two types of drones.....

given their tech and being a variant human but not imperial I am hoping they qualify as xenos. Given thier tech it might be cool to see them ally with both the tau and the imperium. Maybe even throw in some lore about not being kill on sight to some necron factions for trading and ally matrix.

Would love 10th to bring back allies without losing the special sauce or maybe making a new combined faction buff for when allying the two armies that replaces thier existing one better representing how the forces would fight together.

Given that this “classic” triumvirate has only been around for 2 editions I see no reason why they can’t have another option. my ideal would be ABHUMAN. That would open a lot of doors. I’d like that.

The leagues were never part of the imperium and were never separate or against it. Nothing new here.

Awesome vehicle. Something new and different in 40K. Very refreshing and definitely has its own vibe. It may be a little on the more “generic” or “based on real world” side of sci-if, but in 40K that’s actually kind of refreshing, since nothing else really does that.

Quasistellar wrote:
Awesome vehicle. Something new and different in 40K. Very refreshing and definitely has its own vibe. It may be a little on the more “generic” or “based on real world” side of sci-if, but in 40K that’s actually kind of refreshing, since nothing else really does that.

I was thinking that, another rhino variant or something like that would have been too dull. With the leagues I would say they are getting the look of modern sci-fi with enough nods to current lines just right. They feel new but not jarringly so.

Ya but any other scifi setting does it so it's everywhere. Why would we need it in 40k? Just so the price can be inflated x5 or somthing?

Anyways I'm out I hate the lore and the models those that like them enjoy. Will be funny to see the stream of cheap ebay fodder maybe I'll pick some up then so they can be brutally dismembered and put on bases.

I think squats look godawful, but this vehicle is ok. Nothing sensational, IMHO all the ork buggies look way better, but it's not bad. I like it.

Boosykes wrote:
Ya but any other scifi setting does it so it's everywhere. Why would we need it in 40k? Just so the price can be inflated x5 or somthing?

Anyways I'm out I hate the lore and the models those that like them enjoy. Will be funny to see the stream of cheap ebay fodder maybe I'll pick some up then so they can be brutally dismembered and put on bases.

Everything you see in 40K, you can see somewhere else, it’s been like that since the start

Boosykes wrote:
Ya but any other scifi setting does it so it's everywhere. Why would we need it in 40k? Just so the price can be inflated x5 or somthing?.

Its a GW kit. Price was always going to be inflated x5 or something regardless what it looked like.

It's fine. It's a pretty generic scifi design. That doesn't make it bad, but there's nothing exceptional about it either.

Andykp wrote:
Given that this “classic” triumvirate has only been around for 2 editions I see no reason why they can’t have another option. my ideal would be ABHUMAN. That would open a lot of doors. I’d like that.

Bring back beastmen!

Havent you realised that Xenos as a "mega faction" is meaningless... For instance Necrons, Orks and Tau have nothing in common lore and game wise.

LOV arent going to have neither the Imperium nor the Chaos keywords... So it dosent matter if you define them as Xenos, Adhumans or Dwarfxs.

You are just putting them in a meaningless box, since they are their own separate faction.

It's cool, I do like it, but it lacks the grittiness of W40K. Its look and feel are a little too High SiFi for my grim dark tastes.

The only faction that should have repurposed vehicles is GSC. All other factions should have purpose built war machines and this, even by its description, is not a purpose built war machine.

I prefer GW stick to the 'There is only war." mantra.

I do vaguely wonder what they'll be listed under on GWs site.

 oni wrote:
It's cool, I do like it, but it lacks the grittiness of W40K. Its look and feel are a little too High SiFi for my grim dark tastes.

The only faction that should have repurposed vehicles is GSC. All other factions should have purpose built war machines and this, even by its description, is not a purpose built war machine.

I prefer GW stick to the 'There is only war." mantra.

I think you dont really grasp the LOV lore. They are certainly more" Grimdark" than Tau (both in aesthetic and in background).


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ccs wrote:
I do vaguely wonder what they'll be listed under on GWs site.

Those it really matter.

My 9 year old son looked at the Sagitar and immediately said "Needs moar skullz". Does this mean I've failed or succeeded as a parent?

Why should the LOV have skulls? Tau dont have them, neither do Tiranids or even most Eldars.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
i find that it looks like a toy, might look better without the canopies on it

I'm pretty sure when I was a kid I actually had a toy that looked just like it.

It's probably telling that I had trouble working out which faction this vehicle even belonged to. Space Dwarves certainly would not have been my first guess.

 Sim-Life wrote:

I get that squats back in the day were round bois but I really REALLY wish they'd made them more angular and leaned more heavily into runic patterns and made everything more ornate. Y'know, like they were made by skilled craftsmen instead of Generic Armour Plate Unit C-B386-Y But nu-GW gotta have its large flat untextured surfaces for some reason.

It's funny because when I tried to imagine what sort of vehicles Space Dwarves might design, I realised that what immediately came to mind was SM vehicles. Stuff like dreadnoughts, vindicators, even land speeders have a very blocky, no-nonsense feel to them.

The alternative would be mining-vehicles. And yes, I know it's probably not a great idea to try and use the same vehicle for both mining and combat, but this is the same system where people use rocket-launchers built to look like elaborate organs. Anyway, the point is that this niche is also already in play with GSCs and (IIRC) some FW imperial guard models.

The point I'm trying to make is that the characteristics I would expect in Dwarven vehicles (blocky, rugged, no-nonsense designs and repurposed-mining equipment) are both already in play for existing factions. So I guess I can see why GW went with something different, yet at the same time having Dwarven transports look like moon-buggies doesn't really convey much of a theme. Maybe they should have just gone with Space-Skaven.instead?

 Insectum7 wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Given that this “classic” triumvirate has only been around for 2 editions I see no reason why they can’t have another option. my ideal would be ABHUMAN. That would open a lot of doors. I’d like that.

Bring back beastmen!

Hells yes, already have with my home brew rules but they aren’t for everyone.

So how big do you think this LoV vehichle is going to be? It looks like the kit will be bigger than a Leman Russ, but it doesn't really look like a vehicle that should be bigger than a Leman Russ. GW vehicle scaling has gotten weird, imo. It was always a little weird, but it feels more off these days.

I kinda wish it was quad size and didn't have the whole transport aspect, or, it might only hold a small amount, like 5 infantry models, which may be the default squad size. Who knows!?

 RandyMcStab wrote:
My 9 year old son looked at the Sagitar and immediately said "Needs moar skullz". Does this mean I've failed or succeeded as a parent?

You sound alike a wonderful parent


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 Insectum7 wrote:
So how big do you think this LoV vehichle is going to be? It looks like the kit will be bigger than a Leman Russ, but it doesn't really look like a vehicle that should be bigger than a Leman Russ. GW vehicle scaling has gotten weird, imo. It was always a little weird, but it feels more off these days.

Smaller than a rhino I think


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 Blndmage wrote:
I kinda wish it was quad size and didn't have the whole transport aspect, or, it might only hold a small amount, like 5 infantry models, which may be the default squad size. Who knows!?

They operate in pairs apparently and the full squad is transported across both vehicles

Vatsetis wrote:

 oni wrote:
It's cool, I do like it, but it lacks the grittiness of W40K. Its look and feel are a little too High SiFi for my grim dark tastes.

The only faction that should have repurposed vehicles is GSC. All other factions should have purpose built war machines and this, even by its description, is not a purpose built war machine.

I prefer GW stick to the 'There is only war." mantra.

I think you dont really grasp the LOV lore. They are certainly more" Grimdark" than Tau (both in aesthetic and in background).

So you have the codex with all the new lore? Don't hold out on us, spill that gak.

With my alleged tenuous grasp of LoV lore I'll still venture to say that taking a vehicle, one that is explained as being used for prospecting and surveying, and slapping a gun on it hardly makes it grim-dark. Tau, despite not being covered in skulls are more grim-dark. At least all of the Tau models represent something that's purpose built for war.

Why is dual porpuse vehicles not Grim Dark?

Taking the "there is only war" motto literally is a bit naive IMHO.

Do you think chaos cultist are enlisted military with extensive training? They are regular civilians that have recently taken arms (most of them). GSC are literally an insurgency with reporpused civilian equipment. Rogue Traders arent warriors but rather merchants which only know to defend themselves for security reasons. Arent they Grim Dark enough?

I like it - reminds me of the old Judge Dredd vehicles

As a design it’s ok, pretty derivative and not very exciting but fine. The guns stuck to the front as an afterthought look bad though. The main issue is that neither this or the hover trike look like vehicles designed for fighting.

All i see is

^Nice

Also, the whole mining equipment thing is really GSC. They leaned hard into using that as a sign to show "these are people using the tools at hand".

Having fancy mining equipment that already has equivalent thing...it's low effort.

Vatsetis wrote:
Do you think chaos cultist are enlisted military with extensive training? They are regular civilians that have recently taken arms (most of them). GSC are literally an insurgency with reporpused civilian equipment. Rogue Traders arent warriors but rather merchants which only know to defend themselves for security reasons. Arent they Grim Dark enough?

IMO the difference is that one looks like an act of desperation and the other looks like a happy meal toy with guns. GSC vehicles look like improvised combat vehicles with guns bolted on, mining equipment being used as weapons because it's the best they have, etc. It's the 40k equivalent of a pickup truck with a heavy machine gun bolted to the back. You know it sucks, you know you're probably going to die if you ever encounter real tanks, but the hive mind compels you to fight and you will fight.

Contrast this with the squat abomination the weapons are clearly designed to be a part of the vehicle but that design is an awkward hybrid: not efficient enough to be a useful industrial tool, not effective enough to be useful in combat. It's like the GW CAD artist was designing a civilian vehicle for a non-40k game and then at the last minute the boss said "put some guns on it, we need a new 40k faction".

"People complaining that the Buggy can't hold Voltann models for transport"

"Same people who have been using Rhinos to transport 10 marine/sister models for 25 years"

and

"People complaining that Voltann are too generic for 40k (which I don't totally disagree with)"

"Same people who 3D print, er, I mean, purchase and play with Tau, a generic oriental robot army that has the least 40k aesthetic ever"


...


I'm a Squat head for life. Get at me, Imperium!

 BuFFo wrote:
"People complaining that the Buggy can't hold Voltann models for transport"

"Same people who have been using Rhinos to transport 10 marine/sister models for 25 years"

As has been mentioned already: a Rhino looks like it can transport 8 marines and could hold 10 if it was true 28mm scale, the squat happy meal toy looks like it could transport 1-2 models at most. Until I saw the forum discussion and went back to read the details of the article I had no idea it was even supposed to be a transport.

Vatsetis wrote:
Why is dual porpuse vehicles not Grim Dark?

Taking the "there is only war" motto literally is a bit naive IMHO.

Do you think chaos cultist are enlisted military with extensive training? They are regular civilians that have recently taken arms (most of them). GSC are literally an insurgency with reporpused civilian equipment. Rogue Traders arent warriors but rather merchants which only know to defend themselves for security reasons. Arent they Grim Dark enough?

Uh, what? Rogue Traders aren't 'merchants who merely defend themselves.'
Rogue Traders are conquistadors, who raid and conquer planets to strip them of resources and bring those back to the Imperium.
The prototypical Rogue Trader has a write-up well worth reading, with a retinue consisting of a full company of Space marines and at least two companies of ordinary troops with 'standard vehicles and auxiliary equipment.'
Rogue traders have the authority to exterminate, trade with or merely plunder any cultures and planets they encounter.

A lot of 40K doesn’t look what I think of as grimdark. Primaris look more like something out of Disney era Star Wars/MCU and all the battle suit models don’t do it for me.

But it think there’s also more to grimdark than just the way things look and I think the LOV lore will be one of sophisticated looking technology but at the core of their society it’s all falling apart and no one knows what to do. A bit of a vibe like the fall of the USSR. Which all adds up to grim dark I think

 Blndmage wrote:
Also, the whole mining equipment thing is really GSC. They leaned hard into using that as a sign to show "these are people using the tools at hand".

Having fancy mining equipment that already has equivalent thing...it's low effort.

I already made this point before, but for you, (and others of this persuasion) I'm curious how would you feel if they blended the Nasa-punk aesthetic with the mining look?



Like, clearly a mining vehicle, but with weapons integrated into the original design, rather than bolted on. Instead of being low-end mining equipment, this is the best possible mining equipment money can buy, and is explicitly dual purpose, but not pressed into service like GC. Because to me, this is what the votaan should have been. (see my post a couple pages back for the full spiel on that)

I'm eager to get my hand on the new LoV codex and read all about them.

What I'm hoping for is a faction that is militant, because it has to be, because 41st millennium and all that and the whole space dwarf mining thing is just a low key background history piece.

So far the WarCom articles for their lore have hinted at some really cool things. I like the whole Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, Deep-Thought, the ultimate answer is 42; what is the question, super computer worship thing.

I can see there's been a ton of thought put into the range. I have no issue predicting that the Votann will smoothly slot into Warhammer 40k as a whole and in a few years time will feel no different than the Tau or Necron or any other non-imperium faction for 99% of people. This vehicle in particular has a good feel to it and is eye catching and interesting. it will be cool to see it on the table top, even if only to play against.

The usual normal disappointment, or the unusual and deranged levels of emotion coming from some, is largely confined to this dakka dakka forum. The votann are broadly being well received pretty much everywhere else.

They said we would be seeing another new vehicle this week, but I guess not today. Kind of surprising since the weekend is usually reserved for pre order news.

The real test of whether or not the LoV have been integrated into 40k is if Space Marines start getting LoV-esque stuff while the LoV get watered down in a few years.

derpherp wrote:
I can see there's been a ton of thought put into the range. I have no issue predicting that the Votann will smoothly slot into Warhammer 40k as a whole and in a few years time will feel no different than the Tau or Necron or any other non-imperium faction for 99% of people. This vehicle in particular has a good feel to it and is eye catching and interesting. it will be cool to see it on the table top, even if only to play against.

The usual normal disappointment, or the unusual and deranged levels of emotion coming from some, is largely confined to this dakka dakka forum. The votann are broadly being well received pretty much everywhere else.

They said we would be seeing another new vehicle this week, but I guess not today. Kind of surprising since the weekend is usually reserved for pre order news.

Ah yes. 'You people are insane, but everyone else on the internet is super chill, and I just know this will be popular'

This isn't anybody's first internet rodeo. That (the middle part particularly) simply isn't believable.

Voss wrote:

derpherp wrote:
I can see there's been a ton of thought put into the range. I have no issue predicting that the Votann will smoothly slot into Warhammer 40k as a whole and in a few years time will feel no different than the Tau or Necron or any other non-imperium faction for 99% of people. This vehicle in particular has a good feel to it and is eye catching and interesting. it will be cool to see it on the table top, even if only to play against.

The usual normal disappointment, or the unusual and deranged levels of emotion coming from some, is largely confined to this dakka dakka forum. The votann are broadly being well received pretty much everywhere else.

They said we would be seeing another new vehicle this week, but I guess not today. Kind of surprising since the weekend is usually reserved for pre order news.

As yes. 'You people are insane, but everyone else on the internet is super chill, and I just know this will be popular'

This isn't anybody's first internet rodeo. That (the middle part particularly) simply isn't believable.

I mean, this forum does have a bit of a reputation for a reason, so it really isn't surprising that the rest of the warhammer community is receiving the Votann differently. I'd say this forum is split with Votann, that's why there is so much endless repetitive argument over it, but elsewhere it's mostly positive, and the amount of argument is a literal fraction of what happens here.

derpherp wrote:
They said we would be seeing another new vehicle this week, but I guess not today. Kind of surprising since the weekend is usually reserved for pre order news.

Huh? Where did they say another vehicle reveal was coming this week?

They didn't, its a misread.

They simply said there are more vehicles in the range, but the buggy was all they were showing off 'today'

Voss wrote:
They didn't, its a misread.

They simply said there are more vehicles in the range, but the buggy was all they were showing off 'today'

That's what I thought, too. You'd think it something to double check to make sure first really as two vehicles in 1 week would be very odd, especially when we've been getting roughly 1 substantial article on the Leagues each week.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Voss wrote:
They didn't, its a misread.

They simply said there are more vehicles in the range, but the buggy was all they were showing off 'today'

That's what I thought, too. You'd think it something to double check to make sure first really as two vehicles in 1 week would be very odd, especially when we've been getting roughly 1 substantial article on the Leagues each week.

Hey, GW doing friday night updates is no more unreasonable than a mythical internet that is universally positive about things and totally chill.

I mean, the bigger flaw with the presented argument is claiming that the Tau have been accepted as fitting within the 40k universe, when they're still a blatant aberration...

Why?

You know its a Galaxy with thousands if not millions of planets and xenos races... not everybody has to be in the same shades of dark as for instance the inquisition, Dhrukari or Heretic Astartes.


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Aniway, Kroots are part of the Tau Empire and a rather quite greety.

Not the best, but it is different. shame it is too complex for easy and quick painting.