It’s lovely, clean and bright looking, which has always been my takeaway impression of Marvel’s First Family.
But…Ben Grimm’s face when he’s chatting to the robot seemed a bit off. Not sure if that was a steaming issue (I’ve noticed a few YouTube videos aren’t syncing visuals and vocals quite right in recent weeks), or just, Y’know, his face is made of rock now so of course it’ll look a bit odd. Or even the CGI isn’t quite finished. Or it’s bad face mapping.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: It’s lovely, clean and bright looking, which has always been my takeaway impression of Marvel’s First Family.
But…Ben Grimm’s face when he’s chatting to the robot seemed a bit off. Not sure if that was a steaming issue (I’ve noticed a few YouTube videos aren’t syncing visuals and vocals quite right in recent weeks), or just, Y’know, his face is made of rock now so of course it’ll look a bit odd. Or even the CGI isn’t quite finished. Or it’s bad face mapping.
Jury entirely out.
Sorry, but I'm not seeing the problems with Ben's face that you are.
And the 'robot' is H.E.R.B.I.E., who first appeared as a replacement for the Human Torch in The New Fantastic Four animated series in 1978.
They all looked/sounded older too. Even with the retro style TV cinematography I got the impression they were much older characters. So perhaps he didn't show off because all of them are basically aging and his stretching is now a problem so he's not doing it as much
Overread wrote: They all looked/sounded older too. Even with the retro style TV cinematography I got the impression they were much older characters. So perhaps he didn't show off because all of them are basically aging and his stretching is now a problem so he's not doing it as much
They are older characters, as Franklin Richards is generally expected to be in the film and characters such as the Red Ghost and Mole Man will be seen in flashbacks.
Yeah, they said very early on that this wasn't set in the 616 universe, but it will presumably involve them crossing over at some point.
I really hate the washed out colours. I get they're going for a retro vibe with it being all sepia toned... but for my money, FF, like Superman, should be bright and colourful. Lean into the comic-book-ness of it all.
Also, I feel the 'character flies too high and their powers/suit/whatever cut out, leaving them falling earthwards' thing has been done to death by now.
Otherwise, it looks fun. As a kid, while I was never a fan of the FF overall, the Thing was one of my favourites. So, I'm always keen to check out a new take.
insaniak wrote: .Also, I feel the 'character flies too high and their powers/suit/whatever cut out, leaving them falling earthwards' thing has been done to death by now.
It looks like that's actually comics accurate in the earlier FF books.
Ben's face is definitely off.
I like the overall style that they're going for, but all of the character seem slightly wrong.
Vanessa Kirby looks dramatically different from her appearance in Hobbs & Shaw. She looks uncanny now.
Johnny has the same issue with the washed-out blonde hair that is too pale. Golden would look better on both.
insaniak wrote: .Also, I feel the 'character flies too high and their powers/suit/whatever cut out, leaving them falling earthwards' thing has been done to death by now.
It looks like that's actually comics accurate in the earlier FF books.
Not saying it's inaccurate, just boring due to overuse.
I don't think the film itself will be in the the washed out color scheme used in the trailer, outside of the TV show being shot in the film. I would bet the overall film is going to bright and colorful and is still being touched up leading up to release just as I think they are still working on The Thing, like you said.
I have a question for those that saw Rise of the Silver Surfer: was Galactus the cloud or was Galactus inside the cloud? I thought the cloud was p0art of the mechanism to devour planets and that he was inside it but seeing comments elsewhere others thought the cloud itself was Galactus.
All of the early rumours were 'He's just a cloud, because a giant dude would be silly' and so by the time the movie actually came out, that's what had stuck and nobody remembers that you actually glimpse him in there.
Ahtman wrote: I have a question for those that saw Rise of the Silver Surfer: was Galactus the cloud or was Galactus inside the cloud? I thought the cloud was p0art of the mechanism to devour planets and that he was inside it but seeing comments elsewhere others thought the cloud itself was Galactus.
It definitely looked like he was inside the cloud.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: If memory serves, there’s a “blink and you miss it” silhouette of his Big Hat within the cloud?
But that could be a deleted scene, or someone on the internet offering a fix.
Well if that scene got deleted then that happened after I saw it in the theatre opening day...
Finally it all makes sense. Marvel starts humbly with Iron Man and then slowly builds up the MCU until they have clout and money to get back lost IP rights from Fox and now finally the culmination of all that time and money comes together and they can remake Rise of the Silver Surfer.
Ahtman wrote: Finally it all makes sense. Marvel starts humbly with Iron Man and then slowly builds up the MCU until they have clout and money to get back lost IP rights from Fox and now finally the culmination of all that time and money comes together and they can remake Rise of the Silver Surfer.
It does seem like a weird rehash of Rise of the Silver Surfer, just without Doctor Doom. It also doesn't help that I've seen screenshots of the two silver surfers side by side from the two movies and I can't believe it's been almost 20 years since the last F4 movie from Fox, but the 2025 one looks pretty much worse than the 2007 one.
Can't attach the pic comparison for some reason, but it's covered in the top comment and the post for this reddit page:
Having just rewatched the original FF movies a few weeks ago, the 2007 Silver Surfer did not hold up as well as those screenshots would have you believe.
They've cherry picked a static shot of 2007, and dynamically lit shots from the trailer. The new surfer looks fine in the actual trailer itself.
Yay yet another gender swap for no reason.
It’s clear they don’t care about the fans, and only satisfying an agenda.
What a way to ruin one of my favourite characters from Marvel.
And is Sue Storm the leader of the FF, or Reed? The trailers make it seem like it’s girl boss time again.
This is getting so tired. I had high hopes and this trailer just made it another ‘meh’.
Ghool wrote: Yay yet another gender swap for no reason.
It’s clear they don’t care about the fans, and only satisfying an agenda.
What a way to ruin one of my favourite characters from Marvel.
And is Sue Storm the leader of the FF, or Reed? The trailers make it seem like it’s girl boss time again.
This is getting so tired. I had high hopes and this trailer just made it another ‘meh’.
Big fan of Shalla-Bal, are you? Personally I wasn’t aware of that particular Herald, but the MCU does like using lesser known comic characters.
Ghool wrote: Yay yet another gender swap for no reason.
It's not a gender swap. Shalla-Bal is a distinct character from Norrin Radd and dates back to 1968.
Why does everyone assume I haven’t read comics for over 40 years?
I know. How would the Surfer be one of my favourite characters if I didn’t know about Shalla-Bal?
But if you are going to tap three of the best issues of the FF of all time, why are they using the alternate universe garbage and not sticking to the material you’re basing it on?
Like the atrocity that was the Wheel of Time, this movie does not appear to be made for the true fans…
But if you are going to tap three of the best issues of the FF of all time, why are they using the alternate universe garbage and not sticking to the material you’re basing it on?
Because they needed to make it distinct from Rise of the Silver Surfer, and having a different surfer is a really easy way to do that, and because they needed to find a way to wedge the FF into the existing MCU, and going with an alternate universe version likewise gives them an easy way of doing that.
It's not a gender swap for no reason, it's just using a different character in a different setting.
But if you are going to tap three of the best issues of the FF of all time, why are they using the alternate universe garbage and not sticking to the material you’re basing it on?
Because they needed to make it distinct from Rise of the Silver Surfer, and having a different surfer is a really easy way to do that, and because they needed to find a way to wedge the FF into the existing MCU, and going with an alternate universe version likewise gives them an easy way of doing that.
It's not a gender swap for no reason, it's just using a different character in a different setting.
All they had to do to differentiate the new FF from the 2007 version was make it an actually good movie.
And if they really wanted to use a female Herald, whats wrong with using Nova?
That’s where I have issue wth gender swaps - they think that by taking an already existing fan favourite and gender swapping them, all of a sudden they’ll have an equally good and likeable character.
That’s not how you win fans over, because you’re taking their beloved icons and turning them into something that Disney thinks will make money when all it does is satisfy their ideological agenda.
It’s a creatively bankrupt way of trying to introduce new characters.
Ghool wrote: Yay yet another gender swap for no reason.
It's not a gender swap. Shalla-Bal is a distinct character from Norrin Radd and dates back to 1968.
Why does everyone assume I haven’t read comics for over 40 years? I know. How would the Surfer be one of my favourite characters if I didn’t know about Shalla-Bal?
But if you are going to tap three of the best issues of the FF of all time, why are they using the alternate universe garbage and not sticking to the material you’re basing it on?
Like the atrocity that was the Wheel of Time, this movie does not appear to be made for the true fans…
The running theory that makes a lot of sense is that the mainline MCU universe has no fantastic four or Dr Doom. That is kind of the point of the sacred timeline. As He Who Remains built the sacred timeline to prevent his own birth and thus an infinite amount of himself coming out of the woodworks to inevitably start a multiversal war. HWR/Kang is a descendant of the Richards bloodline (and possibly also Dooms). So the best way to prevent his own future birth is to wipe out the whole bloodlines.
It ONLY makes sense that the FF and Dr Doom are coming from an alternate reality. And in that alternate reality Shalla Ball became the surfer instead. Which is also just something she has done in the past of the comics.
Then you get the idea that we are leading to secret wars/battleworld. Where these people can mix with the others and inhabit whatever new universe comes out the other side along with everyone else. Where the new universes surfer is actually Norrin. Where Doom isn't a Tony Stark variant or some gak (that Doom will get defeated). Where the mutants have always existed.
Like it or not, thats the corner they wrote themselves into with this story arc to introduce these people to the MCU.
Ghool wrote: All they had to do to differentiate the new FF from the 2007 version was make it an actually good movie.
Not simply recycling previously used characters is one of the ways to stop audiences from turning off before they even see it. They need to offer something that audiences haven't already seen, and a twist on a familiar character is one way of doing that.
And if they really wanted to use a female Herald, whats wrong with using Nova?
Because it's a multiverse story set in a different universe, and so they chose to go with a female surfer instead as a clear visual distinction from the previous FF's universe.
That’s where I have issue wth gender swaps - they think that by taking an already existing fan favourite and gender swapping them, all of a sudden they’ll have an equally good and likeable character.
Once again, this isn't something they've created for this movie. They haven't gender-swapped Norrin Radd, they've adapted another character who has existed for 60 years in the comics.
And that's why all of this wailing and gnashing of teeth going on all over the internet over gender swapping is so absurd. This isn't a new phenomenon ... the comics publishers have been introducing alternate universe versions or gender swapped versions of existing characters for just about as long as they've been making comics.
So it's a little difficult to take these sorts of complaints as a genuine reaction from fans.
I kind of agree with the video above too. They laid the groundwork for the Earth X Celestial/Galactus dynamic. That planet cracking DOES look like a celestial being born. And Earth X is the story where Shalla Baal was also a Silver Surfer.
I am not saying that this FF movie is the Earth X universe. But it very well might be taking it's ques from that book for why Shalla is the Surfer and what makes the planet suitable for Galactus.
Have any of the MCU films been completely accurate to the story lines they got the names from? I can't think of any and yet they still generally are well received, sometimes even by comic fans!
DC/Marvel Comics have been re-inventing the same characters and stories forever. Even the attempt to bring it all together with the Multiverse still has loads of re-imaginings and reboots and such.
It's one of the few times where Hollywood can't actually get it wrong because re-interpreting the material is basically what the original source material - the comics - have already been doing.
Ghool wrote: Yay yet another gender swap for no reason.
It’s clear they don’t care about the fans, and only satisfying an agenda.
What a way to ruin one of my favourite characters from Marvel.
Ghool wrote: Yay yet another gender swap for no reason.
It’s clear they don’t care about the fans, and only satisfying an agenda.
What a way to ruin one of my favourite characters from Marvel.
You haven't read Earth X, have you?
You must have missed the comment where I’ve been reading Marvel comics for over 40 years.
What I have missed is the dreck they’ve been pushing out for the past 7 years.
I’m done here. It feels like I’m not allowed to have an opinion.
Ghool wrote: While I might be the minority of opinion on this forum, but if you folks say the movies are well-received and doing well?
Let’s just take a look at the diminishing returns on every single Marvel film and series since Endgame.
Deadpool/Wolverine was an outlier. But the rest?
Not even breaking even.
Proof is in the numbers.
The only MCU movies so far that have lost money are the Marvels and the Eternals, both of which had marketing issues and received largely positive reviews from those people who did actually go and see them.
The fact that the recent crop of movies isn't doing the same numbers as Infinity War doesn't mean they're bad. While there are occasional exceptions, movies in general are not doing as well at the box office, for various reasons that have little or nothing to do with the quality of the movie. With more and more people staying home and streaming instead, sooner or later studios are going to have to come up with another metric for judging a movie's success, because box office sales are simply not the whole picture these days.
Yeah and unless we have a huge change I can't see cinemas getting back to what they were. It's gone from a casual afternoon's entertainment cost to quite a serious expense if you also want to drink/eat anything.
Usually I’m bothered by these gender swap type gimics, but I’m more bothered by Pedro Pascal as Reed Richards.
1. What was wrong with John Krasinski from the Raimi flick? Never bothered with it, but he looked passable in the clips that I saw of him. Did Krasinski not want to get franchise locked for years?
2. Tired of seeing him in everything. Not a hater, and aside from Wonder Woman 2(not his fault, he didn’t get much help) he generally doesn’t phone it in, in my experience.
3. Just doesn’t look the part.
Vulcan wrote: Why do I have a terrible feeling that Sue is going to be the leader, and she'll talk down Silver Surfette by bonding with her over child-bearing...
I doubt Sue will be the leader but she has always been the anchor for the Fantastic Four. If you are looking for a story that doesn't include a strong female character, I suggest you avoid any comic accurate portrayal of Sue Storm. That idea dates back decades.
And if they wanted a female Herald for Galactus, why not use Nova, a perfectly good female Herald? Why change Norin Radd into a woman?
Do you mean Binary? Binary was already seeded in the post credit scene from the Marvels. They haven't gender swapped Norin Radd, they have used an already established female version of the Silver Surfer. Considering we already know that at least the beginning of this movie doesn't take place in the main MCU setting, a Norin Radd Silver Surfer is still possible along with the Shalla Ball Silver Surfer featured here.
Ghool wrote: Yay yet another gender swap for no reason.
It’s clear they don’t care about the fans, and only satisfying an agenda.
What a way to ruin one of my favourite characters from Marvel.
You haven't read Earth X, have you?
You must have missed the comment where I’ve been reading Marvel comics for over 40 years.
What I have missed is the dreck they’ve been pushing out for the past 7 years.
1) Ok, so you've been reading the comics for 40 years. Did you read Earth X or not? (It came out back in '98? '99?)
2) You complain about the recent movies being dreck - while still reading the current books??
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ghool wrote: While I might be the minority of opinion on this forum, but if you folks say the movies are well-received and doing well?
Let’s just take a look at the diminishing returns on every single Marvel film and series since Endgame.
Deadpool/Wolverine was an outlier. But the rest?
Not even breaking even.
Proof is in the numbers.
In the end? It really doesn't matter to me what their #s are. All I care about is did they entertain me?
To date, Marvel wise, the only Disney ones to fail in that were: Eternals & Secret Invasion.
If Disney fails to make x amount of $$? Not my problem. And wether or not something entertains me has nothing to do with the opinions of professional critics nor how many other people have watched it.
It’s really not taking long at all for MCU movies to turn up on D+. And it’s even swifter on Amazon Prime, though as paid-for content.
I did that with Captain America Brave New World just this week. £19.99, so around the cost of a new Blu-ray.
I had intended to see it in the cinema, but timing just didn’t allow.
And now it’s rare to wait more than a few weeks to stream, be it paid for or Disney+, I do wonder how many other film nerds are happy to wait? Because I doubt it takes a particularly high percentage to do in a box office.
As for the recent crop?
Black Panther 2 gets a pass from me. I mean, talk about challenges. Not only had they sadly lost their superbly charismatic leading man? But it was made during the Pandemic. The story itself is fine, but you can see where probably necessary compromises were made.
The Marvels I adore. The montage of them learning to use their powers and new ability effectively was superb. And again, the story was solid. Must watch that again.
Eternals? It was a disappointment, and until Brave New World just sort of occupied its own odd space. Also, I’m sorry to say Barry Keoghan is another actor that just creeps me out. I dunno why, and this isn’t to suggest he’s a wrong’un. Maybe he looks too much like that utter pratt out of office of The Flash?
Secret Invasion was just plain old odd. But at least Martin Freeman suffered*, so not a dead loss
The rest have been perfectly fine.
*Look, I’m not saying he’s a one trick pony, but there are only so many “Martin Freeman again, but this time he’s looking exasperated about something slightly different”. He’s overrated and over used. Like Jim Carrey at the start of his career, where every role was “Jim Carrey being wacky and annoying”.
Freeman lexes his acting muscles in a pretty grim portrayal of a night duty cop. It's pretty good, but as I say, grim viewing. It'll make you think Liverpool should be flattened and turned into a park and ride for Manchester.
Phase 4 did better than phase one on average per movie despite not having any Avengers movie to drastically boost the number AND having to deal with the pandemic. Blackwidow was almost just released on streaming which severally negatively impacted it's box office performance.
Phase 5 has the only not profitable movie with the Marvels. Which suffered from Pandemic stuff and troubled production and poor advertising AND strikes. Otherwise DP and Wolverine was performing like an Avengers movie and Cap being the first movie for Sam as the title character outperformed other first title character movies in Hulk, First Aveneger, Eternals, and Shang Chi.
Phase 4 being the beginning of a new story arc (again with no avengers movie boosting the numbers) made more money per movie than phase 1 and WOULD outperform per movie phase 2 if it wasn't for Age of Ultron.
Phase 5 is undecided until Thunderbolts finishes it's run. I suspect the numbers will be good.
I've enjoyed everything since phase far from home (the original run epilogue) except for Echo, Secret Invasion, and Eternals. To be fair I haven't seen Black Panther 2 but it took me forever to see Black Panther and I enjoyed that so I'm pretty sure BP2 will be fine.
This one, is I think, just a pass for me. I see nothing that excites me and honestly I'm suffering from Pascal burnout. He's not THAT good of an actor or that charismatic and he just feels like every other character he's currently doing. And then it's hard to beat Evans for human torch and so I'm decidedly meh on it. I'll probably watch it free on streaming at some point at home.
This one, is I think, just a pass for me. I see nothing that excites me and honestly I'm suffering from Pascal burnout. He's not THAT good of an actor or that charismatic and he just feels like every other character he's currently doing. And then it's hard to beat Evans for human torch and so I'm decidedly meh on it. I'll probably watch it free on streaming at some point at home.
For me, the best characters of the bunch are Thing and Sue so I'm not particularly concerned about either of those
Automatically Appended Next Post: In terms of Phase 4 rankings.
No Way Home, Deadpool & Wolverine, and Guardians 3 are legitimate greats in the franchise and completely live up to their hype.
Multiverse of Madness and Wakanda Forever are nearly up there, but have some obvious production problems that hold them back a bit.
The Marvels, Eternals, Black Widow and Shang-Chi are all really solid films with enjoyable stories and characters that mostly just suffer from timing and surrounding bloat. I don't think people were all that ready to move on after Endgame. I feel like Cap 4 is going to wind up here when I get around to it.
Love & Thunder and Quantumania are actual duds. The latter I can almost forgive, but its basically the epitome of the post-Endgame problems all rolled into one. Love & Thunder is probably my least favorite MCU film of all time and just kind of terrible, IMO.
You must have missed the comment where I’ve been reading Marvel comics for over 40 years.
What I have missed is the dreck they’ve been pushing out for the past 7 years.
I’m done here. It feels like I’m not allowed to have an opinion.
People seem to forget that you can have an opinion. However, no one is required to agree with it. Secondly, no one is required to not tell you why they think your opinion is stupid. No one is entitled to share an opinion that is free from potential rebuke from others with opinions.
This seems to be the place to admit that I don't like Mr. Fantastic. I've never liked "stretchy" as a a power set and the only time he was interesting was the version in The Venture Bros. And no, The Maker isn't any better as it is just Le Edgy Mr. Fantastic.
There, I got that off my chest. Now we can all go about our day.
Still I didn't really care about Black Panther either but Chadwick Boseman won me over so maybe Pedro will as well.
From what I recall I think its also that he mostly just had that "dad energy just get on with life/been there done that". He never really suffered like the others with his gift in the same way; nor had to learn and mature and temper his behaviour.
Which in a way made him stable, steady and constant but also meant that he didn't have the same character advances as the others.
I saw a Pedro Pascal coloring book prominently displayed at the book store the other day. Not Star Wars or Last of Us themed, just drawings of him. I like Krasinski but if Pedro is that much more marketable you can understand their choice!
Given the story they are adapting, the female Surfer probably matters about as much as the alternate universe throwaway characters in the last Dr Strange. The Thing wearing a shirt is irritating, though.
I agree that the past few years of Marvel stuff has been mostly a disappointment, but this one looks like it will be pretty good, and I'll probably watch it.
This one, is I think, just a pass for me. I see nothing that excites me and honestly I'm suffering from Pascal burnout. He's not THAT good of an actor or that charismatic and he just feels like every other character he's currently doing. And then it's hard to beat Evans for human torch and so I'm decidedly meh on it. I'll probably watch it free on streaming at some point at home.
For me, the best characters of the bunch are Thing and Sue so I'm not particularly concerned about either of those
Automatically Appended Next Post: In terms of Phase 4 rankings.
No Way Home, Deadpool & Wolverine, and Guardians 3 are legitimate greats in the franchise and completely live up to their hype.
Multiverse of Madness and Wakanda Forever are nearly up there, but have some obvious production problems that hold them back a bit.
The Marvels, Eternals, Black Widow and Shang-Chi are all really solid films with enjoyable stories and characters that mostly just suffer from timing and surrounding bloat. I don't think people were all that ready to move on after Endgame. I feel like Cap 4 is going to wind up here when I get around to it.
Love & Thunder and Quantumania are actual duds. The latter I can almost forgive, but its basically the epitome of the post-Endgame problems all rolled into one. Love & Thunder is probably my least favorite MCU film of all time and just kind of terrible, IMO.
I agree with most of this; I’d elevate Shang-Chi, as I really enjoyed that film, it felt tighter and fresher than most of the rest of phase 4, I found the humour great, and the visualisation of Chinese mythological creatures was at times breathtaking.
I’d also bump Quantamania above a dud, but just a bit. I found it entertaining, but forgettable, and I think it missed an opportunity to have some truly awe inspiring visuals (think the first Dr Strange, or Avatar); it was too often generic CGI fest.
Love and Thunder is one I’d actually push further down. I’m a big fan of the Thor films (even Dark World), and Taika Waititi, but that film is just bad.
The problem with the chart is you can't subtract the cost from the gross. Disney (or Sony) only gets at most half the gross, so if you half the gross then subtract the cost you get closer to accurate numbers (which, really, we have no way of knowing exactly since you'd need to know all the costs of making AND marketing the films as well as all the revenue streams such as digital purchases, merchandise [given the PILES of unsold merch at discount stores, they've probably seen a decline revenue there], etc.). When halfing the gross you get more films that don't look like they broke even in cinemas.
For upcoming MCU films:
Thunderbolts* - no expectations, but hoping they are exceeded and there's something enjoyable there.
FF - I LOVE the FF, so I hope it's good, but I have low expectations. I'm not happy about Pedro Pascal. He doesn't seem to fit the part of Reed Richards to me, but need to see the movie to make final judgement. I don't have a problem with Sue being the main character since she's arguably the most powerful one of the 4. I'd like it if Ben had a more gravelly voice. Johnny seems fine in the trailer. I'm mildly irritated about the Silver Surfer. Norrin Radd has been a Marvel fixture for 60 years and thousands of comic issues and has thousands upon thousands of fans. The Shalla-Bal Surfer is a mere blip in comparison. If the movie is good and it makes sense within the context of the film, then fine, but if they did it just to do it and the movie is bad, then I will remain irritated, but progress beyond mild.
I look forward to the end of the multiverse saga and hope the new MCU can plot a course forward that will be better quality than we've had recently.
As far as opinions on MCU Phases 4 and 5
Black Widow - didn't see (irritated about the Taskmaster situation, but more irritated that Black Widow's final entry in the MCU was a bad movie [which I acknowledge I cannot confirm with firsthand knowledge])
Shang Chi - it was fine
Eternals - didn't see (it didn't look good and I was hoping it'd get memory-holed [Curse you, CA: BNW!])
SM: NWH - enjoyed it, but it felt like a whiplash in direction since the first two movies are building Peter to take over for Tony, and that is completely wiped away in this one. While that's probably truer to Spidy in the comics, I liked what they were building and am overall still confused by the choice. We'll see what they do from here, but I'm still scratching my head all these years later.
DS: MoM - I did not enjoy it. Some of it was okay, but overall Strange wasn't the main character in his own movie and turning Wanda into a villian is not a choice that I liked (again whiplash feeling). WandaVision was fun up until we find out she's subconciously tormenting thousands of people, then they keep going down that path and ultimately kill her. So the choice here, to me at least, taints the character retroactively into the previous phases.
T: LaT - I did not enjoy it. Learned all the wrong lessons from Ragnarok. Thor seems to be stuck in an endless cycle of needing to find himself.
PB: WF - I did not enjoy it. All over the place. Not familiar with Ironheart from the comics, but I hated her implimentation. Nothing in the movie sets her up to be a superhero. She's smart and made a device for the government. Atlantians wanted to kill her. She made a suit of armor adapted from Stark plans, but we never see her plan to "fight crime" with it, just flies around. Then gets captured, then gets free, then makes suits of armor for Wakandans (why!?) and herself and goes into battle, even though she has zero combat training. I did not like that, it did not feel like a well defined character arc.
AMatW: Q - Hated it. Complete waste of time and characters.
GotG V3 - I did not enjoy it. It didn't feel like an end to a trilogy. Yes it seems we get an end to Drax's story and answers about Rocket, but again, it feels like a whiplash in tone and direction from 1 and 2. Granted, events outside the series dramatically impacted it.
The Marvels - I had no expectations and they were met.
Deadpool 3 - I did not enjoy it. The whole Deadpool vulgarity thing isn't my jam and I've been growing to dislike Ryan Reynolds shtick more and more.
CA: BNW - I did not enjoy it. A bunch of stuff happens. At no point did I particularly care about any of it or the people involved. Irritated Sam didn't take the serium. Sam's just a guy in a Wakanda suit. I like Sam, but I don't like the direction they went post Endgame.
As far as D+ shows:
Liked the start of WandaVision, Liked some of: Loki, Hawkeye, What If?
Hated: Falcon and Winter Soldier, She-Hulk, Secret Invasion
This one, is I think, just a pass for me. I see nothing that excites me and honestly I'm suffering from Pascal burnout. He's not THAT good of an actor or that charismatic and he just feels like every other character he's currently doing. And then it's hard to beat Evans for human torch and so I'm decidedly meh on it. I'll probably watch it free on streaming at some point at home.
For me, the best characters of the bunch are Thing and Sue so I'm not particularly concerned about either of those
Automatically Appended Next Post: In terms of Phase 4 rankings.
No Way Home, Deadpool & Wolverine, and Guardians 3 are legitimate greats in the franchise and completely live up to their hype.
Multiverse of Madness and Wakanda Forever are nearly up there, but have some obvious production problems that hold them back a bit.
The Marvels, Eternals, Black Widow and Shang-Chi are all really solid films with enjoyable stories and characters that mostly just suffer from timing and surrounding bloat. I don't think people were all that ready to move on after Endgame. I feel like Cap 4 is going to wind up here when I get around to it.
Love & Thunder and Quantumania are actual duds. The latter I can almost forgive, but its basically the epitome of the post-Endgame problems all rolled into one. Love & Thunder is probably my least favorite MCU film of all time and just kind of terrible, IMO.
I agree with most of this; I’d elevate Shang-Chi, as I really enjoyed that film, it felt tighter and fresher than most of the rest of phase 4, I found the humour great, and the visualisation of Chinese mythological creatures was at times breathtaking.
I’d also bump Quantamania above a dud, but just a bit. I found it entertaining, but forgettable, and I think it missed an opportunity to have some truly awe inspiring visuals (think the first Dr Strange, or Avatar); it was too often generic CGI fest.
Love and Thunder is one I’d actually push further down. I’m a big fan of the Thor films (even Dark World), and Taika Waititi, but that film is just bad.
Yeah, I was trying to stick to 3 groups and ended up with 4. Taking it more granular I definitely agree. Shang-Chi is the best of that tier and the gap in quality between Quantumania and Love & Thunder is pretty easy to draw a live through.
SM: NWH - enjoyed it, but it felt like a whiplash in direction since the first two movies are building Peter to take over for Tony, and that is completely wiped away in this one. While that's probably truer to Spidy in the comics, I liked what they were building and am overall still confused by the choice. We'll see what they do from here, but I'm still scratching my head all these years later.
This seems to heavily come down to Sony deciding they didn't want to play ball anymore and started to start threatening to withhold Spidey. The movie almost didn't happen in the first place and when it did it was written in a way that left Peter in place where either studio could do the follow up.
Ahtman wrote: This seems to be the place to admit that I don't like Mr. Fantastic. I've never liked "stretchy" as a a power set and the only time he was interesting was the version in The Venture Bros.
That's not fair, obviously the Venture Bros version of anything is better than the original.
The OG 2 were all bad imo. Even Rise of Silver Surfer Bro. It was never a good movie to me. I don't know what possesses anyone to say otherwise.
The 2015 film is also bad but idk. I expected it to be badder? I'd never seen it before but remembered its disastrous release and what I got was a profoundly bad movie, but not an epically bad move. Kind of the same as the other two though.
All 3 of these movies are all just plain bad. Not fun bad. Not atrociously memorable bad. No fun to hate bad. They're just bad.
Guess we'll see if Marvel can do it any better when I get around to watching this movie in however many years it takes me to get to it XD
I've only seen the 2015 movie once and I wasn't impressed with how it felt like half a movie.
My issue with the first Fantastic Four origin movie, and the first X-Men for that matter, was that it spent a lot of time on establishing the team and then rushing through a single fight in the end that felt disappointing because of the ease with which it was won. There wasn't enough to the story in either movie.
The 2015 Fantastic Four felt like it did the same but with even less substance. On top of that it didn't even give Kate Mara much screen time to keep me distracted while I wait for anything interesting to happen in the story.
Origin movies in general tend to struggle for similar reasons.
Having rewatched the first two FF movies with my daughters just recently, they're not terrible (although despite the Origin Movie Handicap, the first one is still a much more enjoyable movie than Rise of the Silver Surfer) and the girls enjoyed them... so that would seem to be mission accomplished, really.
It's disappointing that they took RotSS's failure as an excuse to reboot the franchise instead of just making a better sequel, because the original cast was great ... they just needed a better movie to work with.
That's the problem with trying to do origin stories for things like Fantastic 4 or Xmen. As soon as you try to squish multiple origin stories into a single film it starts to break apart. There just isn't enough time in 2 hours or less to give each character their own arc; their own development and growth - esp if you also want to give a "Big bad" their development and threat at the end and all too.
It doesn't help thta the films also want BIG events to happen whilst if you look at proper origin stories the early challenges are often way way less.
Even solo superheroes have this problem. Batman shouldn't be taking on a supervillain who has a plan to conquer the whole city in one night; he should be taking on someone after a diamond in a mansion or a bank heist or such.
Hopefully this is going the Spider-Man Homecoming route. As in “oh sod it, the audience will know where they got their powers from”, and just crack on with an interesting tale.
The Incredible Hulk did it best, by cramming the origin story into the opening credits for the sake of the 7 people who went to see a Hulk movie without knowing what his story was, and then just getting on with it.
Thor also did well. He didn’t become a god, he was born one. His journey is learning self discipline and wisdom enough to rule. Kinda like Iron Man, less about learning to use your new powers, much more learning to use them responsibly.
Which is a common Marvel theme, and why most of the early villains were Evil Twin types. Yes it became tropey and some variety wouldn’t have gone amiss. But they do serve to show our heroes aren’t powerful because they’ve these amazing toys or abilities, but because they use them responsibly, compared to “well, I’m going to let this go immediately to my head, bow down worms *evil cackle*”
Which, of course for Cap and Tony? Sets up a very interesting dynamic, as they clash on what responsible looks like.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Hopefully this is going the Spider-Man Homecoming route. As in “oh sod it, the audience will know where they got their powers from”, and just crack on with an interesting tale.
While its not guaranteed to be in the final film, in the trailer you can hear a little news clip that briefly describes the event. I suspect that's how they'll handle it.
The 2015 film is also bad but idk. I expected it to be badder? I'd never seen it before but remembered its disastrous release and what I got was a profoundly bad movie, but not an epically bad move. Kind of the same as the other two though. XD
It's honestly the worst kind of bad. It's just boring. It's obviously been hacked to bits in editing but it's hard to get the feeling that what was there before was any better. It's just a movie that thinks it has much bigger ideas than it really has and makes a mess of trying to cram them into the FF archetypes.
Grimskul wrote: I see that Disney is trying to do something similar with the Deadpool/Wolverine popcorn holder, somehow I think this won't be as popular though.
Though with the way the plastic looks and the hole placement, I'm sure people will still find a way to make a fleshlight parody of this online.
Posted by Ryan Reynolds a year ago, and you can find other videos of the popcorn bucket and the Deadpool cup from when the film was released...
Ghaz wrote: Straight from the cover of Fantastic Four #1...
It’s a good thing comic book film viewers don’t appear to know the concept of embarrassment because I’m feeling enough for all of us after watching this clip.
Ghaz wrote: Straight from the cover of Fantastic Four #1...
It’s a good thing comic book film viewers don’t appear to know the concept of embarrassment because I’m feeling enough for all of us after watching this clip.
Did you expect a Little Caesar's commercial to have effects that you'd only see in a Hollywood tentpole film?
Ahtman wrote: I gotta admit Quatro Fantasticos has a nice ring to it.
Definitely sounds better than how they tried setting it up the team name in the Michael B Jordan version of the Fantastic Four:
The memes that started off this never gets old lol.
I forgot how wonderful horrible that movie was. I was going to put a snarky, "at least..." but I can't find anything worth watching in that train wreck.
(I wish they could do a Superman without Lex Luthor.. )
Man of Steel?
Wasn't Man of Steel the one where they tried ot squish the original 2 superman classics into 1 film?
Or was it the one with Batman who got the bright idea to fight superman fist-to-fist before giving up because their mothers happened to share the same name?
Honestly its like how most Batman ends up involving or focusing on Joker - a lot of the films have become very 1 dimensional in how they portray their superheroes. Partly because they keep wanting to go straight from origin story to arch nemesis. Leaving no time for regular crime; criminals or the legion (most have) of other villains and plots.
(I wish they could do a Superman without Lex Luthor.. )
Man of Steel?
Wasn't Man of Steel the one where they tried ot squish the original 2 superman classics into 1 film?
Or was it the one with Batman who got the bright idea to fight superman fist-to-fist before giving up because their mothers happened to share the same name?
Looks like a much needed fresh start for the MCU, and I enjoyed the two 00s movies. So long as there isn't anything else on at the time I'll go and see it.
SamusDrake wrote: Looks like a much needed fresh start for the MCU, and I enjoyed the two 00s movies. So long as there isn't anything else on at the time I'll go and see it.
It comes out two weeks after the new Superman film here in the U.S.
We're still hoping the hero of the story, Galactus, gets to have a good meal of the FF Earth and the FF have to flee to the MCU for survival, right? Galactus has been denied for to long a succulent Terran Meal!
Ahtman wrote: We're still hoping the hero of the story, Galactus, gets to have a good meal of the FF Earth and the FF have to flee to the MCU for survival, right? Galactus has been denied for to long a succulent Terran Meal!
Until he gets to the center of the planetary tootsie pop and finds one of his Celestial kindred.
I saw a trailer for this while going to see new Jurassic Park and I just started laughing because apparently I can't hear a movie is about 'family' anymore without imaging Vinny D walking into the shot and saying 'nothing's stronger than family.'
LordofHats wrote: I saw a trailer for this while going to see new Jurassic Park and I just started laughing because apparently I can't hear a movie is about 'family' anymore without imaging Vinny D walking into the shot and saying 'nothing's stronger than family.'
Fantastic 4 Fast 2 Furious... There's gold in this idea... they already have the Fantasticar...
Just needs some polishing...
I bet we can get Justin Lin to direct (He's the brains behind the fast/furious franchise style).
Don’t sit near anyone if you get the huge bucket, though.
I had a friend who would always buy the largest bucket of popcorn and then munch it and crunch it like some nightmarish metronome through the entire movie. It was maddening. No one wanted to sit next to him.
Not the best super hero movie you'll ever see, but its good to see a Marvel movie that takes itself more seriously and is thankfully a completely standalone film. The style is interesting and for the very mature comic fans in the audience, appreciated.
If coming in from another big screen incarnation of the F4, then it only reminds one of how they came to get their fantastic powers and it's pretty much straight on to the Galactus thing, with the Silver Surfer.
Okay, just a minor nitpick...
Spoiler:
Mole man and the underground society...felt like they could have been easily written out or just given a little more involvement.
Solid 7/10 for me. Not amazing, not terrible, a fun adventure. I think the movie would have been a lot better if the Silver Surfer was the protagonist. The movie underused its most interesting character IMO.
I thought Galactus was well realized for the most part. The F4 had pretty good chemistry. The retro tech vibes was a nice touch to differentiate this from the main universe.
The bad...
Spoiler:
Biggest problem with this movie? They try to pack in too much stuff|/I] in 2 hours, with a lot of hand wavium to keep the story going.
Galactus captures their ship fairly easily, and then conveniently forgets how he did it when it comes time for them to escape.
Sue Storm convinces the world that giving up her baby is not an option [I]very easily. A little speech holding her kid and the hundreds of people storming the Baxter building suddenly back off and get on board with Reed's plan.
Which brings us to the absurdity of compressing a world wide science experiment to build teleportation towers all over the globe, a plot thread that's introduced and wrapped up in about 5 minutes. It takes some huge suspension of disbelief to sell the idea that everyone agrees this is the best thing to do.
Then, when that plan fails, Reed pulls yet another hail mary.
It's a little much.
Best parts of the movie IMO were Johnny's scenes with the silver surfer. Her flashbacks were fascinating and I really wanted to know more about how and why she served Galactus, but we don't get answers to those questions because she's very much a side character in this.
Saw it with my wife and teenage daughters tonight. Everyone enjoyed it. We all agreed it felt refreshing compared to most of the Marvel content from the last few years.
Pretty good movie. Pacing/timing is a bit wonky, but not really detrimental. Also, it’s only Barely a Super Hero movie. Like yeah, they have powers, but it’s not really about that.
It felt like huge chunks of the movie, the chunks that establish the emotional tone and stakes, were cut out for time. Natasha Lyonne’s role in the finished film is hilariously truncated. The moral arguments between Reed and Sue seem to come out of nowhere for the drama, which makes it feel like their marriage is hanging by a thread the whole movie. Really made me think there was something to the old Sue/Namor memes. Felt like she had more chemistry with Mole Man. Ben Grimm was the best part of the movie, yet they cut his character arc down to a character chord. Johnny spent the first half of the movie feeling real punchable.
The plot structure may have been more tidy, but the film felt like a mess. There were a lot of parts that worked or should work, but they didn’t gel. In the end the film felt kind of dour, with the big payoff scenes missing the oomph to overcome the joyless set ups. With the forced moral quandary, misguided interpersonal dram, and the contrived resolution, F4 felt like what I’d expect from a season 2 Voyager episode based on Those Who Walk From Omelas. Except Voyager would have had some casualties.
My wife pointed out that the
Spoiler:
zero-g birth
scene should have had blood and gore all over the place. It should have looked horrifying. Instead we got something that was somehow played for maximum tension while also feeling Disney sanitized.
The soundtrack kicked ass, though. Too much ass. Some scenes felt a bit like someone blasting the Imperial March every time TeD from accounting entered the room.
There. Had to get that off my chest.
Overall, not the worst Marvel movie, but not the best this year, either.
Easy E wrote: Not the best this year? You ranked Thunderbolts as better?
I can tell from the previews that unless something comes way out of left field I'd definitely rank Thunderbolts over it. Thunderbolts is genuinely fun with solid character work and for the most part likable rogues. Unlike some I actually kinda enjoyed the Alba/Evans/Chikliss/whatever his name was FF. This one feels pretentious like they're trying to hard. Not that it'll be the worst Marvel movie or anything by a mile but partially because of the casting choices and partly because of the backdrop they set this one in has it doing nothing for me.
But if others love it then awesome. We don't need to love them all
Eh, she's giving birth to Space God from a comic not known for gore or realism so "meh", though it certainly was silly. It does feel truncated from a longer version.
Spoiler:
Edit: Saw it pointed out elsewhere that Galactus triggered something to force the birth early, which would also account for why it was an odd birth.
My biggest concern was how they were going to do Galactus and I think, for the most part they did a good job.
Spoiler:
Galactus didn't forget how he captured them he was caught off guard when Johnny cut off his feeding hoses and by the time regained composure assumed his herald was handling it. That was my takeaway, anyway.
Johnny was able to temporarily blind Galactus but the next time he hit him with fire he was fairly unaffected, so what is up with that? Apparently as part of the plan on that attack Sue put up a field that acted like a prism which focused the fire for a higher intensity beam. When I watch it again someday down the line I'll have to have to special attention to that moment and see if that is true.
AduroT wrote: Well that and it’s also a direct eyeball hit vs splashed across his armor.
It showed the area around they eyes, which are the same armor as anywhere else, as scorched from that attack whereas the armor from the following attacks does not affect the armor in the same way. He didn't just do a lance straight into each eye he swept a beam across the face.
I did appreciate Thing throwing a truck at Galactus.
I really enjoyed that. It remembered to be fun, and it was visually a stunning film.
Though, there were moments where it was Ben Grimm on-screen, and the composite just didn’t look quite right. Like he and the rest of the scenery were all very slightly out of focus, but in different ways,
But the main thing is, the main cast have genuine chemistry together.
Galactus captures their ship fairly easily, and then conveniently forgets how he did it when it comes time for them to escape.
Well, in escaping, the FFdid blast their way out through the floor vs going back the way they entered....
I just assumed they hit something tractor beam related doing that.
Also, they’d hurt him. Not necessarily badly, but badly enough.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ahtman wrote: Saw elsewhere something I was wondering answered:
Spoiler:
Johnny was able to temporarily blind Galactus but the next time he hit him with fire he was fairly unaffected, so what is up with that? Apparently as part of the plan on that attack Sue put up a field that acted like a prism which focused the fire for a higher intensity beam. When I watch it again someday down the line I'll have to have to special attention to that moment and see if that is true.
Just back from seeing it
Spoiler:
Sue did indeed generate a lens for Johnny to focus his fire through. Stuck in my mind, because I do like to see powers being combined.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: It should have looked horrifying. Instead we got something that was somehow played for maximum tension while also feeling Disney sanitized.
Thank you, Bob, but I think we all went to see The Fantastic Four vs The Silver Surfer & Galactus, rather than "The Horrors of Child Birth".
BobtheInquisitor wrote: It should have looked horrifying. Instead we got something that was somehow played for maximum tension while also feeling Disney sanitized.
Thank you, Bob, but I think we all went to see The Fantastic Four vs The Silver Surfer & Galactus, rather than "The Horrors of Child Birth".
BobtheInquisitor wrote: It should have looked horrifying. Instead we got something that was somehow played for maximum tension while also feeling Disney sanitized.
Thank you, Bob, but I think we all went to see The Fantastic Four vs The Silver Surfer & Galactus, rather than "The Horrors of Child Birth".
Well some of you did.......
I was mortified when it wasn't the sole focus of the film. They kept dealing with other nonsense for far too long.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: It should have looked horrifying. Instead we got something that was somehow played for maximum tension while also feeling Disney sanitized.
Thank you, Bob, but I think we all went to see The Fantastic Four vs The Silver Surfer & Galactus, rather than "The Horrors of Child Birth".
We were there to see a fun movie. Unfortunately it was the kind of movie that left us unengaged enough to be reminded of real childbirth instead of caring what was happening on the screen. I was expecting Reed to grab a towel or make some other minimal effort towards an excuse for movie-clean childbirth, something. By that point, the film just wasn’t working.
I brought it up in my post because it was an amusing bit of what didn’t work, the same way the whole society depicted in the movie didn’t work, the stl travel time didn’t work, the Omelas dilemna defused by a dopey speech didn’t work, the complete lack of casualties in a borough destroying battle felt too safe. One thing could be overlooked. But not when the whole movie feels off.
It was a magical childbirth brought on by a cosmic force so being different than actual childbirth shouldn't be shocking but I understand. I also understand that an almost utopian alternate world where the population is a bit more united and they have retro futuristic aesthetic may not be for everyone, but many seemed to have dug it. I'm sorry you didn't connect with the material but overall audiences seemed to have had the opposite feeling.
On the other hand the idiotic takes I've seen were that there, again, wasn't more time spent on an origin and that the movie should have spent more time on Reed and Sues dating life.
I'm surprised we haven't had more comments about Uncanny Valley Baby. Thing occasionally looks a bit off but was forgivable but the cgi baby? oof.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: It should have looked horrifying. Instead we got something that was somehow played for maximum tension while also feeling Disney sanitized.
Thank you, Bob, but I think we all went to see The Fantastic Four vs The Silver Surfer & Galactus, rather than "The Horrors of Child Birth".
We were there to see a fun movie. Unfortunately it was the kind of movie that left us unengaged enough to be reminded of real childbirth instead of caring what was happening on the screen. I was expecting Reed to grab a towel or make some other minimal effort towards an excuse for movie-clean childbirth, something. By that point, the film just wasn’t working.
I brought it up in my post because it was an amusing bit of what didn’t work, the same way the whole society depicted in the movie didn’t work, the stl travel time didn’t work, the Omelas dilemna defused by a dopey speech didn’t work, the complete lack of casualties in a borough destroying battle felt too safe. One thing could be overlooked. But not when the whole movie feels off.
So you're disappointed that you saw a comic book made Live-Action.....
BobtheInquisitor wrote: It should have looked horrifying. Instead we got something that was somehow played for maximum tension while also feeling Disney sanitized.
Thank you, Bob, but I think we all went to see The Fantastic Four vs The Silver Surfer & Galactus, rather than "The Horrors of Child Birth".
We were there to see a fun movie. Unfortunately it was the kind of movie that left us unengaged enough to be reminded of real childbirth instead of caring what was happening on the screen. I was expecting Reed to grab a towel or make some other minimal effort towards an excuse for movie-clean childbirth, something. By that point, the film just wasn’t working.
I brought it up in my post because it was an amusing bit of what didn’t work, the same way the whole society depicted in the movie didn’t work, the stl travel time didn’t work, the Omelas dilemna defused by a dopey speech didn’t work, the complete lack of casualties in a borough destroying battle felt too safe. One thing could be overlooked. But not when the whole movie feels off.
So you're disappointed that you saw a comic book made Live-Action.....
I think the issue is that we've seen comic book movies made extremely well (i.e. The Dark Knight), so we know that comic book films can be good, well executed movies.
I think the issue is that we've seen comic book movies made extremely well (i.e. The Dark Knight), so we know that comic book films can be good, well executed movies.
Exactly this. I don't think F4 is a bad movie, but it isn't great. As comic book movies go, it's fairly middling.
But FF is a generally well made and executed film, not TDK level but few are, it just seems more that in this case it didn't connect with Bob, which is happens. I mean, I'm pretty sure he knows it is a comic book movie so is taking that into account and yet it just didn't resonate and/or went a step to far past suspension of disbelief. All that means is that when we have our FF one year anniversary BBQ get together Bob won't be show up even though he'll still be invited.
I think the issue is that we've seen comic book movies made extremely well (i.e. The Dark Knight), so we know that comic book films can be good, well executed movies.
Exactly this. I don't think F4 is a bad movie, but it isn't great. As comic book movies go, it's fairly middling.
Yes, this.
I didn’t hate the movie, but I was surprised how little I liked it when I walked out. There were some parts I thought were very well done, but as a whole, the film left me more unfeeling than satisfied. I was trying to put in words why that was.
In my opinion, the movie was edited down a little bit too much, which weakened the emotional stakes I’m used to feeling in a Marvel movie. While I don’t think we needed to see Reed and Sue dating, I would have liked to have seen more of them not arguing, fighting, or cooly working science together. The warmth that the arguments should contrast with was too quickly and half-heartedly established for me. I didn’t hate them or anything; just felt about them the way I felt about Captain Marvel. I was left picking at the film’s flaws when I should have been rooting for its heroes.
I rate it higher than CA Brave New World, but that’s damning with faint praise.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ahtman wrote: But FF is a generally well made and executed film, not TDK level but few are, it just seems more that in this case it didn't connect with Bob, which is happens. I mean, I'm pretty sure he knows it is a comic book movie so is taking that into account and yet it just didn't resonate and/or went a step to far past suspension of disbelief. All that means is that when we have our FF one year anniversary BBQ get together Bob won't be show up even though he'll still be invited.
Oh no, I’ll still show up. I’ll be the one to bring the huge bowl of soggy Greek Salad.
I think the issue is that we've seen comic book movies made extremely well (i.e. The Dark Knight), so we know that comic book films can be good, well executed movies.
Batman and Fantastic Four are very different comic books, though.
Also, the Dark Knight wasn’t a very good comic book film.
A good film? Yes.
But Joker was not Joker. He didn’t seem to really enjoy what he was doing. Batman was too full of teenage angst, with little in the way of World’s Greatest Detective.
Not every comic book needs to be reinterpreted as grim dark edgelord dank. Not every comic book can.
The Joker has been around for eighty five years and there have absolutely been versions similar to that just as there have been versions like Ceasar Reomero's. There is no one true Joker just as there is no one true version of Batman. The comic started as grim dark edgelord dank, after all. He even shot people.
But Joker was not Joker. He didn’t seem to really enjoy what he was doing. Batman was too full of teenage angst, with little in the way of World’s Greatest Detective.
Not every comic book needs to be reinterpreted as grim dark edgelord dank. Not every comic book can.
Especially not the Fantastic Four.
If we want to play, "They aren't true to their original concepts."
We need to give Batman back his pistols, murder the feth out of people (even if they are sleeping), ditch the radio version Superman nonsense like Kryptonite, and other stuff that wouldn't be added for half a century.
Hell, the original Joker shot people as his usual M.O., until they fried him in the Electric Chair.
And saying that the Dark Knight wasn't a good comic book movie is like saying the Lord of the Rings films were bad Fantasy because they didn't feature 3 hours of Elf Songs and Tom Bombadil traipsing through the forest.
creeping-deth87 wrote: Yeah, anyone that unironically likes the sequel Trilogy has no business calling TDK a bad comic book movie (sorry MDG )
If anybody says Batman has very specific canon then we're going to have to say similar for other younger series like warhammer 40k and i think that's a thing a lot of people would argue over.
Not to pile on to MDG more but his tastes are a bit odd in my opinion but to each their own.
-------
Speaking of Fantastic Four i heard it was actually a decent movie. Which seems like a rarity for super hero films these days. Should i give it a watch? I'm genuinely interested.
The issue with TDK isn't things like all the many versions of Batman from Adam West to Batflek.
The issue is that at his core, Batman is and always has been a detective. Having Batman not be a detective is like having Johnny Quest be a homebody.
Or Tony Stark be an ice cream sales man who never invented anything (and has no interest in inventions or engineering).
Batman IS a detective. And Every Other Version of batman is one. (Even Cloony). TDK Batman is an idiot who never figures out a single thing that any villian is doing and every one of those movies ends with the bad guy explaining the plot of the movie to Batman because he never managed to figure any of it out.
He's a baffoon. A complete moron. Truly, the only difference between him and that guy on the carpark is he wasn't wearing hockey pads.
Say what you want about any other aspect of TDK trilllogy, but that is by a large margin the absolute worst take on the character of Batman to ever be put on film. Animated or otherwise.
Lance845 wrote: The issue with TDK isn't things like all the many versions of Batman from Adam West to Batflek.
The issue is that at his core, Batman is and always has been a detective. Having Batman not be a detective is like having Johnny Quest be a homebody.
Or Tony Stark be an ice cream sales man who never invented anything (and has no interest in inventions or engineering).
Batman IS a detective. And Every Other Version of batman is one. (Even Cloony). TDK Batman is an idiot who never figures out a single thing that any villian is doing and every one of those movies ends with the bad guy explaining the plot of the movie to Batman because he never managed to figure any of it out.
He's a baffoon. A complete moron. Truly, the only difference between him and that guy on the carpark is he wasn't wearing hockey pads.
Say what you want about any other aspect of TDK trilllogy, but that is by a large margin the absolute worst take on the character of Batman to ever be put on film. Animated or otherwise.
I've typically always been in the minority that the Nolan films aren't good Batman stories. Beginning with the first one, Bruce Wayne doesn't start his quest to become Batman until he's in his mid 20s. That's not Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne is determination personified. His parents' death focused that determination on becoming Batman from the moment they were murdered. He was only Batman for maybe 2 years before getting mopey again and sitting the fight out for several years. Then he does some Batman stuff for a little bit before retiring to live a life of luxury with Catwoman. Worst Batman ever.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
flamingkillamajig wrote: Speaking of Fantastic Four i heard it was actually a decent movie. Which seems like a rarity for super hero films these days. Should i give it a watch? I'm genuinely interested.
I was more entertained by it than any recent Marvel movie or TV show. Is it Fantastic? I wouldn't go that far, but I was sufficiently entertained to look past its flaws.
Is FF an alright movie to bring a 10 and an 8 year old to? My kids have been showing surprising interest in superheroes, and we have watched almost every main Marvel movie in timeline order as far as Endgame so far.
Hell, on a random sidequest they have even been watching the X-Men movies with me, although it's too bad I'm not letting them within a mile of the three Deadpool movies to cap off all the X-Men material, lol.
AegisGrimm wrote: Is FF an alright movie to bring a 10 and an 8 year old to? My kids have been showing surprising interest in superheroes, and we have watched almost every main Marvel movie in timeline order as far as Endgame so far.
Hell, on a random sidequest they have even been watching the X-Men movies with me, although it's too bad I'm not letting them within a mile of the three Deadpool movies to cap off all the X-Men material, lol.
I would say yes. Galactus might be big and scary but the family dynamics of the FF are pretty homey and kid friendly. Their world is bright and colorful, herbie the robot will be fun for them, and the movie is all around pretty fun. If they have been watching the fox x men movies there is nothing in FF that would be any more offensive and I am pretty sure it's all around less.
I can’t think of anything that would upset them other than some scenes of a baby in (mild) danger, along the lines of Ghostbusters 2. There’s a childbirth scene, but it’s tamer than the one in Look Who’s Talking. There’s a death scene where everyone is sad for a couple minutes, although there are worse in the X-Men movies.
Honestly, Superman has more disturbing scenes, and it’s still very family friendly.
We went and saw it today and my daughter (8) had to suddenly go to the bathroom during the scene on Galactus' ship- I think she got a bit spooked/overwhelmed but masterfully covered it with an excuse, lol.
My son (10) was leaning forward in his seat for almost the entire movie, so I think that was a pretty good review right there.
I love my taste in movies. Good ‘uns, Bad ‘uns, Brilliant ‘uns, Bloody Awful ‘uns.
Provided it’s a horror, I’m probably gonna enjoy it. Because even bad horror is usually good for a laugh.
Except that one I saw years ago, which mercifully I can’t remember the name of. Clearly made by film students/film school drop outs. When the killer randomly killed a bus full of people pretending to be special needs kids? It was a step too far. Especially as every kill had the exact same sound effect used.
Oh, and the Terrifier movies. First one was ok. Second one I still can’t finish watching. Not gonna bother with the third.
Do you like all horror or just a specific subset? Your reviews seem to be exclusively British and American horror of the low budget schlocky kind. While those can be quite entertaining, do you have the same feelings towards other forms of horror, such as elevated, surreal or existential?
I’d love to get your thoughts on weird horror like (Japanese) House (1977) or Suspiria (1977), or even Valerie and her Week of Wonders (1970, but which I couldn’t finish watching with my son). Or existential horror, like Rabbits or Eraserhead. Or stylized non-Anglophone schlock, like Alucarda (1977) and Tenebrae. I used to watch pretty much only John Carpenter horror and the big franchises like Freddy and Jason, but I feel like there’s more to talk about with this wider range of horror and no one else here to talk about it with.
Do you like all horror or just a specific subset? Your reviews seem to be exclusively British and American horror of the low budget schlocky kind. While those can be quite entertaining, do you have the same feelings towards other forms of horror, such as elevated, surreal or existential?
I’d love to get your thoughts on weird horror like (Japanese) House (1977) or Suspiria (1977), or even Valerie and her Week of Wonders (1970, but which I couldn’t finish watching with my son). Or existential horror, like Rabbits or Eraserhead. Or stylized non-Anglophone schlock, like Alucarda (1977) and Tenebrae. I used to watch pretty much only John Carpenter horror and the big franchises like Freddy and Jason, but I feel like there’s more to talk about with this wider range of horror and no one else here to talk about it with.
Dude, I'm like standing right here!
Of course, my memory is not as good as it used to be. I do love me some Italian/Euro horror like Suspiria (and other Argento works) and Giallos. I love Euroshlock with Vampires, Werewolves, and Witches flicks too. If it has Barbara Steele in it.... I will watch it. However, sometimes they are hard to talk about because they have so many different cuts, alternate titles, or just titles that sound alike. I don't get to watch them as much as I used to for various reasons, but I would be glad to chat about them.
I have to say Asian Horror is out of my current league though. Just not enough time to see it all I guess.
What next, will Bob claim there is no one around here to talk about the Bronze Age and Phoenicians! Jeez. I feel like chopped liver! LOL!
I do enjoy Italian Giallo, Zombie and Cannibal movies, mostly because the latter two are almost universally goofy and internally inconsistent.
I’ve a great fondness for Japanese Horror, first getting into it around 2000 or so. But I must admit to being remiss in more recent decades, and I don’t think I’ve any in my current collection. Ring, Dark Water and Ichi the Killer will be going in a shopping cart near me soon!
But my main love, because I’ve learned a bit about the censors of the relevant eras, has to be British Horror. To see boundaries inched ever backwards, whilst still be restrained. Because as much as a good splatter flick is fun? Give me effective lighting, soundtrack and dialogue first and foremost.
As I’ve wibbled about before, I do miss stricter censorship. In my opinion, once the brake came off entirely, all subtlety and craft went out the window, focussing on Shock rather than Horror. Though I’ll freely admit the Insidious and Conjuring series do build a terrific atmosphere, and lazily made.
Got a bunch more Blu-ray on order too. Which given I’ll be without home internet for a few days in a couple of weeks, I’ll save for then.
To be absolutely fair, many of my recent reviews were chronicling my adventures and misadventures through 88 Films Slasher Collection, hence predominantly low budget silliness, with the occasional really good example.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I’ll need to track down Suspiria and that too. I’m aware of them, but mostly from pre-streaming days, when try as I like I couldn’t find them in-stock in shops.
Ehh, ehh, d’you remember shops? D’you? Shops? Remember them! They’re all dead now, breaks yer heart.
But you’re not talking much in the mini movie thread. MDG certainly is.
What next, will Bob claim there is no one around here to talk about the Bronze Age and Phoenicians! Jeez. I feel like chopped liver! LOL!
That reminds me that I received as a gift the Phoenician book you recommended months ago and still have yet to get around to it. And I’ve missed, like, a score of History With CY episodes. It’ll be a while, too; we’re still working on the history and weird history of the Pacific Northwest in anticipation of our road trip. But after that, lots to talk about.
Lathe Biosas wrote: Sorry to derail the Italian horror convo, but I have a serious question.
Is Galacticus a kaiju?
Certainly fits the "strange creature" translation but I think "giant monster" is a bit more questionable as I don't think "monster" quite fits. So to answer the question: maybe?
Because - if Galactus is a Kaiju, then that means the greatest Kaiju hunter of all time (Ultraman) would be able to dispatch him, saving our parallel universe!
Saw it with the family last week. It was alright - enjoyed it but wouldn't rush to watch it again. I wasn't overly enamoured with the 60s retro-future styling. Ben Grimm and Sue Storm were OK if nothing really special. Johnny Storm was a bit weird, felt like they didn't really know how they wanted him portrayed - plus looks-wise he very much reminded me of James Dreyfuss in the sitcom The Thin Blue Line and I was expecting him to go camp at any moment. Mr Fantastic just didn't feel right at all to me.
