Agreed, I admit E-reader's are more practice, but I simply prefer a book; just the feel and 'image'. It's relaxing to me.

As do I prefer dead trees and ground down animals over bits and bytes, but I am weak. So weak.

You do realize that the clades are not that old as of then yes yes? So no, they aren't like they are in 40k YET.

A very good point that I actually didnt thought of. My hat of to you sir.

However, even after considering this I am not entirely swayed.
lets talk logics here:

The Imperium, even pre heresy, wasnt known for caving in to human rights and such things, any super assassin training would be of the most brutal kind imagined, this was inforced in the book by at least one of the assassins being "recruited" as a child and trained from there.

one is wasted killing of small crime war lords in a bordello etc etc.

err.. it's a bit more than that if you read it again.

The symbols in the graffiti yes ?

reds8n wrote:

one is wasted killing of small crime war lords in a bordello etc etc.

err.. it's a bit more than that if you read it again.

The symbols in the graffiti yes ?

that and the uuhh, unsanctioned psyker bodyguard You need some influence for that Id assume.
That guy wasnt as harmless as one might presume him to be.

Cross wires here I think..

Plus one of these yahoos was responsible for

There was already a well established specialist organisation for warfare and handling of unsanctioned psychers called the Sisters of Silence!
No need to waste a culexus on a little rouge psycher. Alpha grade I would understand but this?

Pyriel- wrote:There was already a well established specialist organisation for warfare and handling of unsanctioned psychers called the Sisters of Silence!
No need to waste a culexus on a little rouge psycher. Alpha grade I would understand but this?

She wasnt sent for the psycher, but the psycher employer

OK, so I'm a bit behind in some of my BL reading, but I just finished reading "Legends of the Space Marines", a short story collection about, well...
Anyway, for the most part, OK.

Really liked some, some were just 'meh'.

Aaron Dembski-Bowden's story was good and it made me realize a few things:

1) I don't think he really likes Loyalist Marines. Traitor Marines, yes. Loyal, no.

2) I have a new found respect for the Flesh Tearers Chapter after being reminded of their actions on Armageddon/Gaius Point, and thereafter. I was going to resist the urge to do a BA army when they received a new codex, but now I am seriously considering doing up a FT force.

3) A hope A D-B gets to write something from a Loyalist point of view in the HH series. I think he could do really good work when set free of the shackles of the Traitor Legions pre and especially post-heresy, who really are a whiny bunch, all things considered.

Alpharius wrote:3) A hope A D-B gets to write something in the HH series. And something from a Loyalist point of view too. I think he could do really good work when set free of the shackles of the Traitor Legions post-heresy, who really are a whiny bunch, all things considered.

He's writing The First Heretic but obviously thats from a traitor PoV...

I fixed my post before you replied, because I remembered about THE FIRST HERETIC.

Which, by the way, is all about the freakin' poster boy of Whiny Primarchs and how he and he's freakin' legion screwed it up for everyone!

Still, I know it will be a good read!

..he writes a fight scene between Corax and Lorgar in the book apparently :

And there he stood at the heart of the killing fields, winged and haloed by amorphous contrails of psychic fire, shouting his brother's name into the storm.

Corax answered with a shriek of his own – the call of the betrayer, the cry of the betrayed – and the raven met the heretic in a clash of crozius and claw.

One of his short stories..in the next HH anthology IIRC, is a DA vs. NL tale.

reds8n wrote:..he writes a fight scene between Corax and Lorgar in the book apparently :

And there he stood at the heart of the killing fields, winged and haloed by amorphous contrails of psychic fire, shouting his brother's name into the storm.

Corax answered with a shriek of his own – the call of the betrayer, the cry of the betrayed – and the raven met the heretic in a clash of crozius and claw.

One of his short stories..in the next HH anthology IIRC, is a DA vs. NL tale.

Um, awesome!

Of course, given A D-B's heretical leanings, I'm guessing Corax will get the short end of the stick here too, but whatever, at least it is some fact time for RG, finally!

1) I don't think he really likes Loyalist Marines. Traitor Marines, yes. Loyal, no.

So true, he kills of dozens of loyalists for every traitor while the traitors themselves take down titans one for one. Made me quite frankly disgusted after a while for all the obvious lack of balance since it is a breaking of a basic rule of good story writing and the guy is supposed to be a professional writer. He has lots to learn from the likes of Kyme.

But the person really taking the bias price is A. Reynolds.

Traitors have about ten millennia of experience, I like to think that weighs in their favour a wee bit. Plus the fight against the Warhound was nice.

A D-B did do a short about Crimson Fists, but it was kinda bleh IMHO because they were still very young (in their early 20's) and already full-fledged Astartes, one even a Chaplain!

Traitors have about ten millennia of experience, I like to think that weighs in their favour a wee bit. Plus the fight against the Warhound was nice.

Bummer but it was explained in the very same biased book as having been in-reality a hundred years just so that one doesnt fly.

Right, if it bothers you so much, stop reading them then?

Yes right, unfortunately it cannot be explained away by the traitors having 10k years experience since the book clearly stated that for them (night lords) it has just gone 100 years.
Making them veterans according to SM standards.

And no, unfortunately I cant and wont stop reading since I´m always on the lookout for good fluff and a good read (and I cant tell if its good unless I read it) and secondly I´m a fluff junkie

Traitors have about ten millennia of experience, I like to think that weighs in their favour a wee bit.

And that's very debatable considering that being in the warp only affects the passage of time within it, meaning time passes more slowly than in the material plane.
Just because a thousand years pass in the Imperium, it does not equate the same to the warp-based legions; it could be a hundred years to them or less.

Thus, their 'experience' is very negligible....

However, back OT; regardless of the embedded loyalist-hate with ADB, I sure like his Night lord stuff.....very fitting for them!

Not BL as such, but still of interest..

http://angryrobotbooks.com/2010/08/the-crown-of-the-blood-out-next-thursday/

I just read Nemesis and thought it was pretty good. It showed us about the Imperium that time, and proved that while Horus was ruthless he wasn't yet entirely evil. Oh and anoter thing;

Valdor = Heretic

I'am sure of it! He egged on Russ to slaughter Magnus and noe all this sneaking about with the assasin clade. Hmmm heretic me thinks, oh and another thing I think he was the one who did what everyone else seems to think Dorn did if you catch my drift.

Bloodthirster wrote: It showed us about the Imperium that time, and proved that while Horus was ruthless he wasn't yet entirely evil YET. Oh and anoter thing;

i fixed your post. i'm pretty sure by the time he psychically and physically tried to inflict as much pain as possible on his favorite brother from the litter, sanguinius, before killing him he was pretty much entirely evil. proving that the imperium has evil within it working FOR the emperor doesn't make chaos any more noble or less evil.

I cant wait to see a BA HH book. I wonder how long that will take?

warboss wrote:

Bloodthirster wrote: It showed us about the Imperium that time, and proved that while Horus was ruthless he wasn't yet entirely evil YET. Oh and anoter thing;

i fixed your post. i'm pretty sure by the time he psychically and physically tried to inflict as much pain as possible on his favorite brother from the litter, sanguinius, before killing him he was pretty much entirely evil. proving that the imperium has evil within it working FOR the emperor doesn't make chaos any more noble or less evil.

Thankyou kind sir.

Upcoming Print on Demand title for September will be WAR UNENDING, a anthology of "the best Warhammer Fantasy stories from the past decade, including a new Mordheim story by Darius Hinks." Thirteen quid.

I've lurked here for ages, but was reluctant to add it to the list of forums I already post on. However, Pyriel annoyed me enough to break that trend.

But first!

Alpharius wrote:Aaron Dembski-Bowden's story was good and it made me realize a few things:

1) I don't think he really likes Loyalist Marines. Traitor Marines, yes. Loyal, no.

Negatory. I like them equally. I mean, I wrote Helsreach and a Flesh Tearers story. I want to do a Grey Knights series, too. There's a difference between exploring the interesting flaws and downsides of something, and not liking it at all. My favourite Legion/Chapter is the Flesh Tearers. But that doesn't affect what I write, really.

Alpharius wrote:

reds8n wrote:..he writes a fight scene between Corax and Lorgar in the book apparently :

And there he stood at the heart of the killing fields, winged and haloed by amorphous contrails of psychic fire, shouting his brother's name into the storm.

Corax answered with a shriek of his own – the call of the betrayer, the cry of the betrayed – and the raven met the heretic in a clash of crozius and claw.

One of his short stories..in the next HH anthology IIRC, is a DA vs. NL tale.

Um, awesome!

Of course, given A D-B's heretical leanings, I'm guessing Corax will get the short end of the stick here too, but whatever, at least it is some fact time for RG, finally!

Bear in mind my own Night Lords series is about them barely surviving and getting their heads kicked in all the time. I don't really think I have any leanings, one way or the other. It's not about liking something and making them look better than anyone else (which is something I've barely ever seen my stuff accused of, thankfully), it's about covering the angles of the lore. For example, if Corax was a better fighter than Lorgar, then he'd be in it to win it, as far as I'm concerned. It's not me liking Lorgar best and deciding the Raven Guard suck. (Besides, I like the Raven Guard a lot. That's why they're the Chapter with the mention in my first novel.)

See, the issue with this thinking is that a few people can start to see things in bizarre ways. They can assume because you're writing about X, then you love X and despise Y, and suddenly you use a writing career as a way of making Y look bad. But it's sorta nonsense, and leads to situations like this:

Pyriel- wrote:

1) I don't think he really likes Loyalist Marines. Traitor Marines, yes. Loyal, no.

So true, he kills of dozens of loyalists for every traitor...

This is beyond exaggeration and balls-deep into lying, sorry. You're thinking, I assume, of the one time any Night Lords met Blood Angels, in Soul Hunter? And that was against half a Tactical Squad and a Dreadnought. So, y'know, get it right, yo. As for them "killing a Titan" it becomes much easier to understand when it's only a Warhound, and they had , too.

But by all means, keep making stuff up.

Hooray! We now get Dembski-Bowden shenanigans!

I still want to see "In Midnight Clad", Aaron. *shakes fist*

First Wright, now Dembski-Bowden, this is becoming my favorite thread of all time

Aaron, please continue the excellent work!

legoburner wrote:I have returned from Gamesfest 04 and attended both of the black library panels there and have a few things of note to share that I have not seen mentioned here before. They had a guy on hand to prevent them leaking spoilers so not too much in the way of juicy info I'm afraid.

Sandy Mitchell is working on a new Commissar Cain novel which is set in a space hulk and will be the first book in another set of 3 hopefully. (Set in a space hulk so he could buy a copy of Space Hulk and claim it back against tax he claims )

James Swallow is writing the next HH book after Thousand Sons/Prospero Burns and it is titled Nemesis and will be about assassins, with very little space marines stuff, in which

Spoiler:

a 'major character' dies.

On the question of how many books there would be, James Swallow said there would be 666 books, then Graham McNeil said there would be around a million. He then joked it would be blogged and on warseer so I thought I'd post this imaginary rumour here on dakka first so we can pip warseer and bols to the post on that one... nyah nyah

It was hinted that a massive ultramarines arc is planned for the HH series written by multiple authors. I think they hinted at 3 books but my memory got fuzzy on the drive home through endless traffic jams.

Thousand sons and Prospero Burns are written to be extremely integrated and many elements of the books go back and forth between the two, linking them extremely closely. From Graham's description it sounds like each one will need to be read twice to get the most out of them which sounds good value considering we have to wait for so long for them!

The Horus Heresy panel also hinted at a MASSIVE twist that will "blow everyone's minds". However they could not comment on it further but were visibly brimming with excitement, stating loads of ideas have been going around, and said it will turn the whole 40k universe around a bit. Begin Internet conjecture....

Finally, when asked their personal opinion if GW will ever release any Warhammer 30k stuff, the general opinion was no as the design studio is very focused on 40k, lotr and WHFB. It was suggested that it would not be too hard for them to do such a thing, but that is was not very likely and even a simple apocalypse add on for it would probably be asking too much (again all this was just opinion as Black Library is a separate entity).

you sir have got me totally pumped for all these books, for that I give you 1 million internetz.

Lord of battles wrote:Aaron, please continue the excellent work!

YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME.

Oh, wait.

I mean...

Thanks.

Belated happy returns BTW.

..we're still waiting for part two of the 80s cartoons post, don't think we've forgotten. Paid work be damned, this needs sorting.

Dug "The Core" a lot , proper Raptors.

I really liked the way it tied in with Mr. Kyme's story, that was a very nice touch, and worked well in the anthology format I thought.

Dead Blue Clown wrote:I've lurked here for ages, but was reluctant to add it to the list of forums I already post on. However, Pyriel annoyed me enough to break that trend.

But first!

Alpharius wrote:Aaron Dembski-Bowden's story was good and it made me realize a few things:

1) I don't think he really likes Loyalist Marines. Traitor Marines, yes. Loyal, no.

Negatory. I like them equally. I mean, I wrote Helsreach and a Flesh Tearers story. I want to do a Grey Knights series, too. There's a difference between exploring the interesting flaws and downsides of something, and not liking it at all. My favourite Legion/Chapter is the Flesh Tearers. But that doesn't affect what I write, really.

Fair enough! And, of course, welcome to Dakka Dakka!

Dead Blue Clown wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

reds8n wrote:..he writes a fight scene between Corax and Lorgar in the book apparently :

And there he stood at the heart of the killing fields, winged and haloed by amorphous contrails of psychic fire, shouting his brother's name into the storm.

Corax answered with a shriek of his own – the call of the betrayer, the cry of the betrayed – and the raven met the heretic in a clash of crozius and claw.

One of his short stories..in the next HH anthology IIRC, is a DA vs. NL tale.

Um, awesome!

Of course, given A D-B's heretical leanings, I'm guessing Corax will get the short end of the stick here too, but whatever, at least it is some fact time for RG, finally!

Bear in mind my own Night Lords series is about them barely surviving and getting their heads kicked in all the time. I don't really think I have any leanings, one way or the other. It's not about liking something and making them look better than anyone else (which is something I've barely ever seen my stuff accused of, thankfully), it's about covering the angles of the lore. For example, if Corax was a better fighter than Lorgar, then he'd be in it to win it, as far as I'm concerned. It's not me liking Lorgar best and deciding the Raven Guard suck. (Besides, I like the Raven Guard a lot. That's why they're the Chapter with the mention in my first novel.)

See, the issue with this thinking is that a few people can start to see things in bizarre ways. They can assume because you're writing about X, then you love X and despise Y, and suddenly you use a writing career as a way of making Y look bad. But it's sorta nonsense...

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Blog/Hammer-and-Bolter-Announcement.html

Hammer and Bolter: Black Library announces new download-only short fiction magazine


As I’m sure many of you are aware by now, Black Library will be launching a range of eBooks and audio downloads this October and making the worlds of Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 come alive on your handheld device, iPad and MP3 player. As part of this launch, we’ll be adding a new download-only short fiction magazine to our already heaving website. It’s called Hammer and Bolter and the logo looks like this:




Looks good, doesn’t it? Even more impressive is the line-up we’ve assembled for our giant-sized debut issue. Not only do we have a brand new Dan Abnett short story but we’re also giving you a sneak peek at the first Chapter of Prospero Burnsa good three months in advance of its publication date. Ben Counter and the Soul Drinkers storm back onto the page with the first two chapters of Phalanx – the Black Library’s first ever serialised novel that will be published in its entirety over H&B’s first year of publication. Anthony Reynolds contributes an entire novella continuing the adventures of Calard from his Bretonnian Knight novels while Sarah Cawkwell makes her Black Library fiction bow with a tale of the Silver Skulls chapter of the Adeptus Astartes. And Nick Kyme is finally hunted down by The Inquisition and forced to answer questions about his current and forthcoming novels.


As exciting as all of the above is, possibly the most exciting thing about the first issue is that we have a previously unpublished John Brunner short story featuring none other than Gotrek & Felix! Written twenty years ago, the story has been sitting on various hard drives for the past two decades and, as far as we’re aware, is the last remaining unpublished story by the Hugo Award-winning author who sadly died in 1995.


Each monthly issue will be priced at £2.50 and feature brand-new short fiction and advance previews of forthcoming novels along with the occasional interview and other special features, but to celebrate the launch of our eBook range the first issue will be absolutely free!


Your first chance to get hold of the debut issue will be at UK Games Day and it will be available from http://www.blacklibrary.com shortly after.

Alpharius wrote:Fair enough! And, of course, welcome to Dakka Dakka!

Thanks, Alphy. I've lurked here for about a year, but I figured there was no point hiding anymore. Time to nut up or shut up.

Alpharius wrote:So, having said that, I now know I can look forward to reading about Corax smack Lorgar all over the place, right?

RIGHT?!?

Poor, poor Lorgar...

Dead Blue Clown wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Fair enough! And, of course, welcome to Dakka Dakka!

Thanks, Alphy. I've lurked here for about a year, but I figured there was no point hiding anymore. Time to nut up or shut up.

Alpharius wrote:So, having said that, I now know I can look forward to reading about Corax smack Lorgar all over the place, right?

RIGHT?!?

Poor, poor Lorgar...

I wonder if you're playing trickses on me...

Anyway, you bring up MANY valid points, and I'm sure that, as we never know who is reading these things, we should be a bit more measured, even-tempered and constructive in our criticisms of these things.

I imagine not many would enjoy seeing their work slagged off by anonymous (for the most part!) Internet people...

I know I've been a bit... unkind to some authors in particular.

Which leads me to a question!

At times, in some BL books, it seems as if the Editor is non-existent.

And, if the author isn't a fan of the setting coming in, mistakes seem to creep in that should be caught.

How 'tight' is editorial at BL? Is someone 'over your shoulder', so to speak?

And, before I forget, I do appreciate your work - Mr. Abnett and you are 1 and 1A for me, in terms of 'must buy all they produce', and you certainly got there quickly!

reds8n wrote:http://www.blacklibrary.com/Blog/Hammer-and-Bolter-Announcement.html

Hammer and Bolter: Black Library announces new download-only short fiction magazine


As I’m sure many of you are aware by now, Black Library will be launching a range of eBooks and audio downloads this October and making the worlds of Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 come alive on your handheld device, iPad and MP3 player. As part of this launch, we’ll be adding a new download-only short fiction magazine to our already heaving website. It’s called Hammer and Bolter and the logo looks like this:




Looks good, doesn’t it? Even more impressive is the line-up we’ve assembled for our giant-sized debut issue. Not only do we have a brand new Dan Abnett short story but we’re also giving you a sneak peek at the first Chapter of Prospero Burnsa good three months in advance of its publication date. Ben Counter and the Soul Drinkers storm back onto the page with the first two chapters of Phalanx – the Black Library’s first ever serialised novel that will be published in its entirety over H&B’s first year of publication. Anthony Reynolds contributes an entire novella continuing the adventures of Calard from his Bretonnian Knight novels while Sarah Cawkwell makes her Black Library fiction bow with a tale of the Silver Skulls chapter of the Adeptus Astartes. And Nick Kyme is finally hunted down by The Inquisition and forced to answer questions about his current and forthcoming novels.


As exciting as all of the above is, possibly the most exciting thing about the first issue is that we have a previously unpublished John Brunner short story featuring none other than Gotrek & Felix! Written twenty years ago, the story has been sitting on various hard drives for the past two decades and, as far as we’re aware, is the last remaining unpublished story by the Hugo Award-winning author who sadly died in 1995.


Each monthly issue will be priced at £2.50 and feature brand-new short fiction and advance previews of forthcoming novels along with the occasional interview and other special features, but to celebrate the launch of our eBook range the first issue will be absolutely free!


Your first chance to get hold of the debut issue will be at UK Games Day and it will be available from http://www.blacklibrary.com shortly after.

Oh, great. Another thing people outside the UK will have trouble acquiring. Just like all the GD UK only books, and any of the limited releases/ print on demand books. Thats of course, unless you want your book to be worth less than the shipping youre paying. Ugh.

In other news, Mr Dembski-Bowden sneaks into the thread. WRITE MORE BOOKS!!!!!! yanno, just sayin.

Eep, hey mister Dembski-Bowden, I am the idiot from the Frenzy earlier this year who was the first one to buy your books there and then ran off because of nerves, only to return a bit later and have you sign my books.

So did you improve on the speed at which you do your signatures or will there be long lines at GD UK?

Dead Blue Clown wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Fair enough! And, of course, welcome to Dakka Dakka!

Thanks, Alphy. I've lurked here for about a year, but I figured there was no point hiding anymore. Time to nut up or shut up.

Alpharius wrote:So, having said that, I now know I can look forward to reading about Corax smack Lorgar all over the place, right?

RIGHT?!?

Poor, poor Lorgar...

Oh, and welcome. Forgot that part /edit

I am grateful to see the Word Bearers again. While I did like Battle for the Abyss, I felt like it was more a set up book for the following series rather than an in depth view of any of the legions involved. So more facetime is appreciated.

And as for Lorgar - he seems to be a bit of a lurker in the Horus Heresy books - barely appearing in A Thousand Sons, and a myth of a shadow of a rumour most of the time.

Can I just finally say that I really enjoyed how you managed to work with Simon Spurrier's Lord of the Night book into Soul Hunter. I remember reading how much you were disliking the prospect of doing so, and the challenges into making anything into a coherent whole out of it - I think it ended rather well - the disgust of Talos for Sahaal is wicked. And we are going to see more eldar chopped up, I hope?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and I just finished reading a few books. Got a big order in, just finished reading most of them.

Brunner = very good. Initial offerings from the short stories were a bit wierd at first, but once I got into the mindset, it was fantastic to read.

7.5/10

Shia Calpurnia = so-so. Good parts, bad parts. Stronger in the beginning than at the end - kind of typical of most old school BL publications.

6/10

Dark Creed - this series went from dark and gritty and interesting to just gritty. Dark Creed had some fun ideas, and a couple of nice battle scenes but otherwise very average.

5.5/10

Sons of Dorn (older, I know) = a solid start to what could be an ok series. Kind of reads a bit like Space Wolf, but without nearly as much depth. But gives some idea into the Imperial Fists, a chapter I am liking the more I read about it.

7.5/10 (probably a 6.5 but for the opportunities the book brings in the future)

Helsreach = started extremely strongly. Interesting characters shown, as with most of the battles a glimpse of insight is offered throughout the book. Harder going through the second half - though again, rather enjoyable.

8.5/10

Legends of the Space Marines - very, very, very average for the first half. And boring in a lot of places. Very boilerplate, which is sad considering how great Heroes of the Space Marines was. But the Last Detail, Orphans of the Kraken and At Gaius Point are all worth reading.

4.5 for some, 8.5-9 for others.

Flachzange wrote:

reds8n wrote:http://www.blacklibrary.com/Blog/Hammer-and-Bolter-Announcement.html

Hammer and Bolter: Black Library announces new download-only short fiction magazine


As I’m sure many of you are aware by now, Black Library will be launching a range of eBooks and audio downloads this October and making the worlds of Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 come alive on your handheld device, iPad and MP3 player. As part of this launch, we’ll be adding a new download-only short fiction magazine to our already heaving website. It’s called Hammer and Bolter and the logo looks like this:




Looks good, doesn’t it? Even more impressive is the line-up we’ve assembled for our giant-sized debut issue. Not only do we have a brand new Dan Abnett short story but we’re also giving you a sneak peek at the first Chapter of Prospero Burnsa good three months in advance of its publication date. Ben Counter and the Soul Drinkers storm back onto the page with the first two chapters of Phalanx – the Black Library’s first ever serialised novel that will be published in its entirety over H&B’s first year of publication. Anthony Reynolds contributes an entire novella continuing the adventures of Calard from his Bretonnian Knight novels while Sarah Cawkwell makes her Black Library fiction bow with a tale of the Silver Skulls chapter of the Adeptus Astartes. And Nick Kyme is finally hunted down by The Inquisition and forced to answer questions about his current and forthcoming novels.


As exciting as all of the above is, possibly the most exciting thing about the first issue is that we have a previously unpublished John Brunner short story featuring none other than Gotrek & Felix! Written twenty years ago, the story has been sitting on various hard drives for the past two decades and, as far as we’re aware, is the last remaining unpublished story by the Hugo Award-winning author who sadly died in 1995.


Each monthly issue will be priced at £2.50 and feature brand-new short fiction and advance previews of forthcoming novels along with the occasional interview and other special features, but to celebrate the launch of our eBook range the first issue will be absolutely free!


Your first chance to get hold of the debut issue will be at UK Games Day and it will be available from http://www.blacklibrary.com shortly after.

Oh, great. Another thing people outside the UK will have trouble acquiring. Just like all the GD UK only books, and any of the limited releases/ print on demand books. Thats of course, unless you want your book to be worth less than the shipping youre paying. Ugh.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I got the impression that the magazine will be in a pdf or similar so you will just download it from the BL website. I assume they're printing up a number for GDUK but it will be available online for download shortly after.

Exactly!

I am pretty sure you'll be able to Download this thing so, seeing as you're on Dakka Dakka... you shouldn't have a problem!

Does anyone know how many stories will be in the Hammer and Bolter?
and will it include fantasy stories?

The inclusion of "Hammer" to the title seems to indicate that yes, there will be Fantasy stories as well. Another big hint should be that it includes a Gotrek and Felix tale.

Alpharius wrote:Exactly!

I am pretty sure you'll be able to Download this thing so, seeing as you're on Dakka Dakka... you shouldn't have a problem!

Fair enough, if thats the case, Ill take it back I still hate the fact that you cant grab any of the gd uk specials here undless you pay a fortune via ebay. Meaning, why are they gd uk specials only? Why not have em at every gd?

Lord of battles wrote:Does anyone know how many stories will be in the Hammer and Bolter?
and will it include fantasy stories?

First issue -- which is free-- is oversized at 70,000 words.

Yes it will include both 40K and fantasy stuff.

Flachzange wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Exactly!

I am pretty sure you'll be able to Download this thing so, seeing as you're on Dakka Dakka... you shouldn't have a problem!

Fair enough, if thats the case, Ill take it back I still hate the fact that you cant grab any of the gd uk specials here undless you pay a fortune via ebay. Meaning, why are they gd uk specials only? Why not have em at every gd?

I'm thinking maybe it was a timing thing?

That, or they wanted to have some 'big reveals' at the 'Home' Gamesday?

Of course, that should be the Dark Eldar announcement, but who knows?

I finished Brunner and Grimblades.

Brunner was good, though it repeated its self ALOT (I know what his knifes name is! Stop telling me in every story!)

Reading Grimblades made me want to stab myself in the brain. Nick Kyme was all over the place, and I found myself having to re-read a few paragraphs to figure out what he was trying to say. The non Karl Franz era of the story kept me interested though.

But seriously, the writing was all over the place, made me a sad panda.

Any news on the continuation of the time of legends series or that rumored death korps book (or any other IG book really)

Just look on the Black Library site.

In terms of IG books...
The month of October sees "Blood Pact" released in paperback, a Ciaphas Cain omnibus, and "The Sabbat Worlds Anthology".

The Death Korps book, by the way, is "Dead Men Walking". It releases in December.

combatmedic wrote:

Brunner was good, though it repeated its self ALOT (I know what his knifes name is! Stop telling me in every story!)
.

You've got to remember that this was a collection of short stories and the novels, so this had to be mentioned in each story as it might well have been the first one that a reader had come across. There was, apparently, somethought put into perhaps editing this particular/similar facte a bit but in the past when they've done so there have beens howls of outrage.

..less work too I guess.

I quite liked Grimblades, thought it was better than "Call to arms", not quite as good as "Iron Company" and nowhere as good as "Reiksguard" which is easily the finest in that series. The extra work the author did for that -- basing the moves on actual medieval sword fighting books, actually blocking/acting out some of the fights and then simultaing some of the larger battles with PC games on his computer really paid off.

Read "The hunt for Voldorius" which is a solid read, well paced and plotted but lacked that X factor to really make it stand out, once again, alas, whilst the size of the book is nice the colour plates/maps etc etc don't really add anything of worth to the format, which is a pity.

Also finished "Temple of the Serpent", the latest Thanquol novel. Not quite as good as Grey Seer perhaps, but a fun read, and the portrayal of the Lizardmen/Slaan is superbMr. Werner seems to have a knack at deftly and swiftlt defining racial archetypes.

Which he does to even better effect in his ork story in "Fear the alien", a story that perfectly captures the Imperium and the ork mindset, if they have any sense they'll include this tale in every future ork codex as fluff. Rest of the stories are generally pretty good, Mr. Kyme and Mr. DBC ( much easier than typing it all out, hope this is alright) have a great idea and their two stories are interconnected in a most pleasing way.

Proper Chaos Raptors too, stoked me more for Blood Reavers, and I'd be very happy to see him write something else about genestealers too.

The one I'm in 2 minds about is "Mistress Baeda's Gift" which is, I kid you not, essentially a Dark Eldar love story.

The first read of it did have me thinking perhaps it was a bit too much Anne Rice and not enough Hellraiser, but upon reflection.... it's a good start at least. Some really great ideas and concepts in there -- especially the complexity of the dark Eldar emotions and their version of "love" ( or their translated equivalent anyway), but I felt whilst this was a great idea the rest of their society seemed a bit too... hmmm.. not mundane.. but... too.. human ? I can understand the author being wary of drowning the reader in a barrage of made up words, but the story could have done with a few more... alien versions of human things. For example whilst I appreciate the term "opera glasses" is more for our benefit I ahve a had time envisioning Dark Eldar attending an Opera in the first place. or at least anything that'd we understand as such.

Good to see them do something different and the story, overall, works.

Gah, dagnabbit. Don't you have a job or something?! I'm still struggling with Rynn's World and Call to Arms, I don't even have any of those new novels yet.

Red, how about a bit more detail, non-spoilerific of course, on how the Raven Guard and Alpha Legion are portrayed in "Hunt"?

Does it give us any insight into the Post-Heresy Legion?

I've read a load of Black Library books over the last month or so.

Nemesis has got a lot of good reviews, and I found it enjoyable in places but overall I have to place it on the bottom tier of Horus Heresy books. The villain just seemed silly to me. I could tolerate the unimaginative way that the team of assasins came together, but the villain ruined it for me. That and the way the Eversor was introduced as an unstoppable drug fuelled killing machine and then suddenly rendered merely cranky after a mild talking to. It wasn't Battle for the Abyss bad, but I do think it was a missed opportunity. Oh and this book does have the single worst line in any 40k novel I've ever read: "There is no Terra, only terror!" I may be paraphrasing, but it really is that bad.

Next I read Cadian Blood. This was a very solid and enjoyable book. Soul Hunter was the first ADB book I read and his first effort, as you'd expect, doesn't quite live up to that extremely high standard, but this effortlessly outdid most of its competitors. I'd recommend it to anyone who's enjoyed his other works. I would never have bought a book about Cadians and plague zombies if it didn't have the ADB seal of quality. I wasn't disappointed.

After that I dived into Titanicus. Dan Abnett really is the master of this stuff. 40k authors have a rich universe built in, but reading an Abnett book immerses you in such a deeply detailed environment that I feel more familiar with random world x that I only hear about a few pages ago than I do with the rest of the 40k universe put together. This is a really ambitious book, working together so many different threads that if you weren't totally engrossed in the book you'd quickly lose track, but then you don't have to worry about that with such a compelling story. I actually didn't like the big revelation half way through as it felt unnecessary and stole focus away from the other elements that I was enjoying more. This doesn't stop the book being unforgettably good. Everytime a god machine makes an appearance in a book from now on it's going to be held up against the representation of them here. Not just the titans either, but the mechanicus and the relationship between Mars and Terra.

Next up I jumped back to the other best 40k author and read Helsreach. This is another book that I wouldn't have read based on the premise if it weren't for the author. I'm glad I did. ADB hits the character of the Black Templars dead on, not in any one line or scene, but through subtle and consistent insight. There were elements of the book I felt were weak. The whole secret hidden superweapon versus the needlessly large gargant thing could have been cut entirely for my liking. But I already miss Andrej, whose light relief could so easily have misfired but instead made him impossible to dislike. Oh and the dock union leader's crowning moment of awesome made me want to reach into the book and shake his hand. That was handled perfectly. Read it.

I'm currently less than a hundred pages into the Eisenhorn omnibus. The remaining 700ish pages could consist of random sketches of dirt and it would still get 11/10. I'm rather enjoying it.

I still have Path of the Warrior, the Ravenor omnibus and Throne of Lies to get through. I'm also eyeing the new Kindle and looking forward to Black Library e-books. And The First Heretic!

Alpharius wrote:Red, how about a bit more detail, non-spoilerific of course, on how the Raven Guard and Alpha Legion are portrayed in "Hunt"?

Does it give us any insight into the Post-Heresy Legion?

ermm... both alright, oddly enough I think the Ravenguard perhaps come across as somewhat better, tactically at least, than the White Scars but there were no glaring flaws of inconsistencies that sprung out at me. It was ncie to get a bit mroe info relating to how Voldorious did what eh did, which gives us a proper glimpse into the Dark Age of Technology.


meanwhile, a nice little interview with Chris Wraight, author of the (very good indeed) Sword of Justice.

Isn't the internet great? There used to be a time where if I enjoyed a book there wan't much more I could do after I'd read it other than think, 'that was a good book'. These days though, if I enjoy a book then I can chat to the author online and run a whole load of questions past them. Everyone wins (but mostly me)!

After having enjoyed 'Sword of Justice', the power of the internet gave me the chance to run a few questions past Chris Wraight. Here's what we had to say for ourselves...

You write in both the Warhammer and Warhammer 40K game settings, which one do you enjoy writing in the most?

Until now I’ve been exclusively a Fantasy author, so that’s the setting I feel most comfortable in. That said, I’m writing my first 40K book at the moment, and it’s been a huge - and fascinating - challenge. There are definitely some things about 40K that are very different - the darkness of the far future has the advantage of truly epic scale, and (arguably) a more consistent vision and tone. There are some BL authors who write for both settings (Graham McNeill, for example), and if the editorial gods will it I’d be happy to do the same.

How did you get into writing for the Black Library?

I submitted a short story to one of the old writing competitions, which ended up being published as Premonition in the Warhammer Invasion anthology. An invitation to pitch for a debut novel followed. I wrote Iron Company for the Empire Army series in 2009, after which BL invited me to pitch for the new Warhammer Heroes line.

What projects have you got coming up and why should someone who has never picked up a Black Library book give them a go?

Sword of Vengeance, the sequel to Sword of Justice, has just had its final edits sent in. I’m now over halfway through the Space Marine Battles book Battle of the Fang, which features the Space Wolves and Thousands Sons duking it out on Fenris. Like Rynn’s World, a previous title in the series, this part of the background has existed seemingly forever, so it’s a privilege and a challenge to take it on. I’m currently talking to the BL guys about a third Warhammer Heroes title featuring Volkmar, so the chances are I’ll be back writing Fantasy soon.

In terms of BL books in general, I’d simply encourage anyone with an interest in mainstream Fantasy or SF to give them a read with an open mind and not worry about whether they’re licensed works or not. There are authors writing for BL who are as talented as any in the business, and with Empire winning the Gemmell Award and the Heresy titles consistently entering the bestseller lists, the dismissive response of ‘but they’re just tie-in books’ looks lazier than ever.

In the same vein, what are you reading right now and why do you think I should be reading it too?

I’ve just finished Year of the Flood by Margaret Atwood, which didn’t quite hit the heights of the brilliant Oryx and Crake for me, but was still interesting and characteristically well-written. I revisited Legend a few days ago, which needs no recommendation, and have recently started Warrior Priest by Darius Hinks, which is due out later this year. It’s very immersive, and steeped with the gritty details that make Warhammer stand out from lighter, more optimistic Fantasy worlds.

You’re writing in a universe that isn’t just shared between writers but also between thousands (at least) of wargamers. How has this second group of people taken to your work so far? How does it feel to be the one depicting cities and countries that have been fought over for years now?

That’s a good question, and probably the thing that gives me most sleepless nights as an author. Sword of Justice has had a fantastic reception in its first few weeks, including from review sites that also cover the gaming side of things. The feedback I’ve seen so far indicates that the ‘feel’ of the established setting has been faithfully reproduced, which is immensely satisfying. One of the unresolvable issues of writing for a big franchise such as Warhammer is that you’ll never please everyone, since each individual will have a slightly different take on the universe, but you can do your best to capture the essential qualities that make it unique.

There are established characters from the Warhammer universe (I’m thinking Schwarzhelm and Helborg here) whom I’m guessing are almost sacrosanct in that you can’t kill them off easily if at all. How does that affect the writing process for you?

That’s the challenge of writing licensed fiction. There are lots of things that as an author I can’t do - certain people can’t die, certain places can’t be destroyed, and the balance of power in the Old World has to remain basically the same once the battles are over. In response to those limitations, you have to find different ways to generate jeopardy, interest and uncertainty. Characters have to be sufficiently well-rounded to draw the reader in and suspend disbelief, and you have to find fresh ways to treat long-established ideas. In Sword of Justice I was able to make use of a situation that’s been a longstanding facet of the background - the undetermined succession in Averland - which opened up lots of fictional possibilities.



Was it just me or is there a lot of Druss the Legend in Ludwig Schwarzhelm? I’m not just thinking about that amazing beard either...

You’re not the first to point out Gemmellisms in Sword of Justice. Druss wasn’t explicitly in my mind when I was writing Schwarzhelm, but of course there are a lot of similarities in their situations. In a broader sense, Gemmell is such a dominant figure in ‘low’, military-based Fantasy - which Warhammer basically is - that comparisons are probably inevitable. I’ve taken them as compliments.

Without giving too much away... There are four Chaos powers, what made you choose the one you did to infest Averland?

I chose the one that Schwarzhelm - a straightforward, noble, and in some ways naive warrior - would have the most trouble understanding. That’s really the whole point of the book: taking a man who’s almost unbeatable in a plain fight, and putting him up against opponents with a very different set of values and characteristics. To my mind, Chaos is at its most insidious and impressive when it preys on the weaknesses of mortals and turns their strengths against them.

I have to ask this... Are you a Warhammer gamer and, if you are, do you use the figures to act out battles from your books?

No, not a gamer I’m afraid. And having just finished writing battle scenes with armies of several thousand soldiers in them, acting them out would be very expensive...

If you are a gamer, how do you fancy painting my ‘Lord of the Rings’ figures for me? ;o)

You really wouldn’t want me to do that. The results would be... unfortunate.

If you could be any other Black Library writer, which one would you be and why?

I’m in awe of Dan Abnett’s ability to place memorable characters into taut, fast-paced action stories and make the end product so satisfying. As preparation for writing Battle of the Fang I read lots of his stuff, and it was a mixture of terrifying and inspirational. That said, there’s a lot of talent in the BL stable at the moment: I think Aaron Dembski-Bowden is frighteningly good, and on the Fantasy side I’m a big fan of what Nathan Long has done with Bloodborn. For all of that, though, I’m very happy doing what I’m doing and wouldn’t change it - I’ve been lucky enough to write about some of the most compelling characters and factions in Warhammer Fantasy and 40K, and it doesn’t get much better than that.

And finally ... Can you give us any clues for what we can look forward to in the sequel to ‘Sword of Justice’?

Schwarzhelm has a lot of work to do in the follow-up, but we get to see much more of Helborg’s motivation and character - there’s plenty of unresolved business between the two of them that forms one big strand of the book. The sequel also ties up all the threads left open in Sword of Justice, so if you’re wondering what happened to Achendorfer, Tochfel, Alptraum, Heidegger, Bloch, Verstohlen, Skarr, Gruppen, Natassja, Kraus, Rufus and the rest, there will be answers...

Thanks Chris!

from http://www.graemesfantasybookreview.com/2010/08/author-interview-chris-wraight.html

Iv been on an IT project for the last 4 months, and was able to fly through my BL collection.

I honestly can not wait for the last books of Sigmar's and Nagash's series. Both kept me chained to the 4 released books and I can't stress enough my enjoyment of both series.

I am really looking forward to Throne of Lies. Soul Hunter was an enjoyable read, which is rare for me, as I tend to find most Space Marine books tedious for whatever reason.

I honestly loved the story and the battles of Grimblades, but it was just his writing that drove me crazy. I don't know. But Warrior Priest thats due out this December looks good, and from a newer and unknown-to-me writer, I have hope for it.

I've read one ( or more..?) of Mr. Hinks' short stories in some of the anthologies and they've been good. He's also doing the "Island of Blood " novella too.

Throne of Lies is good -- I still think the Felix and Gotrek one is the best CD, it really works well -- I found myself repeating certain phrases for days afterwards. "the dead whores lips" bit especially.

Pyriel- wrote:

1) I don't think he really likes Loyalist Marines. Traitor Marines, yes. Loyal, no.

So true, he kills of dozens of loyalists for every traitor while the traitors themselves take down titans one for one. Made me quite frankly disgusted after a while for all the obvious lack of balance since it is a breaking of a basic rule of good story writing and the guy is supposed to be a professional writer. He has lots to learn from the likes of Kyme.

But the person really taking the bias price is A. Reynolds.

No, the person really taking the bias prize is Ben Counter. At least ADB and Reynolds don't have the loyalists shooting each other, like Counter's Word Bearers in Battle for the Abyss. I mean, he literally has them stand in a circle and shoot each other with meltaguns. Ben Counter's antagonists almost universally exhibit a level of moustache-twirling cartoon villian incompetence that is just staggering.

And don't even get me started on Galaxy in Flames. Why they got him, of all people, to write the virus bombing of Isstvaan III is beyond me. It'd be like if I wrote a serial novelization of the Pacific War wherein the Americans get warned of the imminent attack on Pearl Harbor, send all their battleships out, locate the Japanese carrier fleet, and then sink half of them before dying to a man in a blaze of glory, thereby handing the Japanese a pyrrhric victory. Of course, that wouldn't be a book about the Bombing of Pearl Harbor, but rather the Battle of Pearl Harbor, which is basically what Galaxy in Flames is about.

Want

Oh yes, I remember at Games Day one of the guys behind the counter showed up a copy of the book. I was so tempted to snatch it and run.

OK, so A-D-B has a lot of hype to fulfil!

It seriously looks great though, does that also suggest that there are extra pictures within the novel?!
Looks so so good though!

I am glad that H&B is coming out. BUT and yes there is always a big BUT - 10 years GW, 10 years, I mean come on 10 years. It has taken you 10 years to re-release what is basically Inferno magazine. That is 10 years worth of income you have been missing from me that I would have gladly paid. Inferno also sparked at least one army that I wasn't even contemplating.

Bitter much? no, just a tad narked. It is almost as if showing H&B as something new and it isn't.

Just Dave wrote:OK, so A-D-B has a lot of hype to fulfil!

It seriously looks great though, does that also suggest that there are extra pictures within the novel?!
Looks so so good though!

WOW!

I was already excited for this release, but now... more so!

If it wasn't already going to the top of my 'Read Now!' list...

Now, I can only hope that Corax DOES end up teaching Lorgar a thing or two on the battlefield!

Decided to finally read Flesh and Iron, almost done, despite the simple plot of "we are the good regiment and those other regiments are snobby indig hating bigots" it's pretty good so far, a bit too thick on the whole Vietnam thing but still pretty darned good. Also, I hate fraghags even more now.

So, has anybody listened to Aenarion as of yet?

No, because it doesn't come out until October you silly goose!

But Black Library did say that it, along with the "Sabbat Worlds Anthology" has shipped already...

BL books usually pop up a month in advance in the stores around here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just finished Flesh and Iron, I'm really looking forward to Blood Gorgons now.

Flesh and Iron was really good and I´m very much looking forward to reading Hunt for voldorius (in my hand).

Anyone read Fear the Alien yet? (collection of short novellas) and if so, how was it overall?

I picked up Hunt for Voldorius and Fear the Alien and started with Fear the Alien. So far, not bad but nothing to write home about. I have finished the first 3 short stories and 2 were decent and 1 was just bad. For the Salamander lovers out there one of the stories focuses around Praetor and Tsu'gan again.

I'll be onto the Hunt next.

Pyriel- wrote:

Anyone read Fear the Alien yet? (collection of short novellas) and if so, how was it overall?

usual mix, some really good, nothing really bad.

I'll be intrigued what people make of the Dark Eldar story.

I especially liked the tie in between Messrs. Kyme and DBC's tales.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
And don't even get me started on Galaxy in Flames. Why they got him, of all people, to write the virus bombing of Isstvaan III is beyond me. It'd be like if I wrote a serial novelization of the Pacific War wherein the Americans get warned of the imminent attack on Pearl Harbor, send all their battleships out, locate the Japanese carrier fleet, and then sink half of them before dying to a man in a blaze of glory, thereby handing the Japanese a pyrrhric victory. Of course, that wouldn't be a book about the Bombing of Pearl Harbor, but rather the Battle of Pearl Harbor, which is basically what Galaxy in Flames is about.

It never made sense why Horus landed ground troops to fight the loyalists when he ended up conducting an exterminatus anyway. Then again the reasons for the Alpha Legion turning traitor are threadbare to say the least and the other books all have their own versions of swiss cheese plots. Maybe it's deliberate, by knowingly writing cak they know the follow up debates and discussions will act as a form of product promotion in itself - there's no such thing as bad publicity and all that. Either that or they know what a captive audience they have who'll lap up whatever dren they churn out.

As I recall Horus didn't want to land troops, he couldn't restrain Angron and finally relented.

Horus sent troops down there to fight in order to prepare them for fighting their Space Marine battle brothers as they would have to throughout the Heresy. It wasn't such a bad thing for the traitors in the end...
It's similar to the destruction of the Technocracy in the same book.

Maybe you guys should try looking into things with a bit more effort rather than assuming that Horus is a fool who lost because of Istvaan III and that the Alpha Legion are mugs who don't know what they're doing.

Quite appropriately, don't judge a book by its cover.

That makes no sense sending them down to prepare them for later wars, they were obviously sheep already or they wouldn't have fought their own legions. Why waste time by sending down units loyal to Horus either like the Dies Irae titan?
Horus had already committed traitor forces to Istvaan for whatever reason so Angron played no real part in traitor forces being sent in to mop up as that was the (stupid) plan all along.

cadbren wrote:That makes no sense sending them down to prepare them for later wars, they were obviously sheep already or they wouldn't have fought their own legions. Why waste time by sending down units loyal to Horus either like the Dies Irae titan?
Horus had already committed traitor forces to Istvaan for whatever reason so Angron played no real part in traitor forces being sent in to mop up as that was the (stupid) plan all along.

Why did Horus commit his own troops to the fight when he could hsve just hammered them from orbit? It was Angron's fault - he was the first to descend with his world eaters. Horus was rather angry about this development, but instead of raging, he decided to use the opportunity to blood his loyal troops fully against fellow space marines. Part of the reason it did not go to plan was that the joint loyalist troops gained warning from the Emperor's Children loyalists and so they could get underground in time.

And as for why he sent down the Dies Irae - he knew it would survive the bombardment and the prescence of it would allay suspicion and would help deceive the troops he was wanting to kill.

I quite liked Fear the Alien, couple of weak stories in there but then a couple of quite strong ones. I especially liked the way that they retold the salamander story again but from the chaos and even genestealer point if view, nice touch i thought. I liked the Dark Eldar story and thought it was told really well for a short story.

Hunt for Voldorious is a good book and is well written, keeps up a good pace all the way through and actually made me want to start a SM army :/

Still waiting for my HUNT FOR VOLDORIUS to show up - it should be here by tomorrow!

Given the Marines involved, it is going to the top of my list!

Do we know what's next in the HH Series, past THE FIRST HERETIC and the anthology book?

Two Garro audio books, another anthology novel and False Gods as an audio drama. Source: BL previews.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nagash Immortal has also been announced, August 2011 sadly!

Argh!

I do not like audio dramas!

I want those things in PRINT!

Much like I want RAVEN'S FLIGHT in print!

Alpharius wrote:Still waiting for my HUNT FOR VOLDORIUS to show up - it should be here by tomorrow!

Given the Marines involved, it is going to the top of my list!

*looks at date*
Still waiting?
Should be on top, its a fine read.


Agreed, audio dramas are a 'extra' that should follow after the printed version.
Ravens flight may need an expanded story then, doubt its more than a few pages text.

Raven's Flight was a sound idea, but a bit too short really. I found the manly tears of Corax most manly.

BrookM wrote:
Nagash Immortal has also been announced, August 2011 sadly!

SON OF A... At least the last in the Sigmar series is coming out January 2011, and with the epic battle between Sigmar and Nagash touted in that book, it may be enough to hold me over till August.

I just noticed that Horus Rising will also be released in audio book format. Abridged and spread over five CD's coming January 2011.

Im a huge fan of audiobooks, but abridged versions just arent my thing. The legacy of the force series is a good example. A lot gets left out. Sure, 13h+ audio books can be a bit extreme but what can you do

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/coming-soon/Battle-of-the-fang.html

^^ Space wolves are the next chapter to get a space marine battle book. Battle of the fang... AWESOME!!!!1!

lords2001 wrote:
And as for why he sent down the Dies Irae - he knew it would survive the bombardment and the prescence of it would allay suspicion and would help deceive the troops he was wanting to kill.

That's no reason to actually send it down, it would have been easy to send a fake in any case like an empty landing craft. By the time the marines were on the ground it would be too late for them to do anything and as they would have been more intent on their own missions they would not have noticed the absence of something like a titan until they were planetside and swapping tactical data.
Horus was intent on attacking the marines on the ground from the start, it is a bad piece of fluff unless there was something else going on like a hope that some of the marines could still be brought around. Who knows, maybe Slaanesh seeing the potential of Lucius set Horus up to make this mistake on the offchance that Lucius could be saved.

All I really want from Black Library is to set it up so that I can actually get album artwork+track information when I move things from CD to my iPod.

Aaron! Prod them with bears until they do that for me, and I'll award you handsomely with food from the mystical Southlands of America.

Can we just drop October and move straight to November ?

Ah, Fire Pauldron, second in the Pauldron trilogy. I kid, great series so far.

Yes and no...

The Salamanders series for me is very uneven...

Though I suppose it is a tick above The Dark Surplice series!

True enough I guess.

The next Bl collectors edition is revealed...

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Exclusive-Products/Collectors-Editions/The-Bloody-Handed.html

a WFB one this time.. looks lkike Hellebron gets some spotlight time then.

17th of September, 2010

Black Library Seminars @ UK Games Day




On top of our spectacular Games Day line-up, we’re delighted to announce that there will be two – count ’em, two! ­– Black Library seminars on the day, which is something that hasn’t been available for years. This is an excellent insight into the workings of the Black Library and a chance to listen to editors, artists and authors. The details are as follows:





Seminar One – The Art of Black Library


With Neil Roberts and Jon Sullivan


11.00 in the West Side Restaurant (by the Black Library Digital stand)


Seminar Two – Writing for Black Library


With Christian Dunn, Steve Lyons and Gav Thorpe


14.00 in the West Side Restaurant (by the Black Library Digital stand)





Here’s the important bit: tickets will be distributed from the entrance to the West Side Restaurant from 10.00am. There is a limit of 100 tickets per seminar and they will be given out on a first come first served basis. Tickets are limited to one per person

hmm, hopefully there will be soem reporting of/from these, I will, no doubt, be in a line waiting somewhere no doubt.

I didn't see anything in this thread, but.....

Czevak is free of the Black Library.....

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/coming-soon/atlas-infernal.html

Good find and... awesome book!

One question though: I never read Redemption Corps though, so... how's Rob Sanders?

Sounds great!

Alpharius wrote:Good find and... awesome book!

One question though: I never read Redemption Corps though, so... how's Rob Sanders?

I still need to finish it but I keep putting it away because the plot is rather boring and not going anywhere.

BrookM wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Good find and... awesome book!

One question though: I never read Redemption Corps though, so... how's Rob Sanders?

I still need to finish it but I keep putting it away because the plot is rather boring and not going anywhere.

I had trouble finishing it as well, I got halfway through it before I gave it up for Bloodborn. Redemption Corps started off pretty strong but became boring, like you said.

"Redemption Corps" was a letdown, but it wasn't that bad.

It's good if you can read it in one sitting, or are stuck waiting at the airport.

Kanluwen wrote:"Redemption Corps" was a letdown, but it wasn't that bad.

It's good if you can read it in one sitting, or are stuck waiting at the airport.

I started it but couldnt really get into the book. i dropped it after about 50-75 pages. I`ll have to pick it up again some time, but so far, its been a bit underwhelming.

Hunt for Voldorius is an ok read so far.

Something cool from Mr. Thorpe.

Since the release of Path of the Warrior I have been asked a number of questions about Eldar culture, war, the Aspect Temples and many other things concerning the pointy-eared inhabitants of the Craftworlds. I’ve rounded up a few of them, which I will answer over the coming days, but the real purpose of this post is to invite Hamsterites to ask any further questions in the comments section.

A caveat: None of this is necessarily ‘official’. I’ve been working on Eldar in a variety of forms over the years and my answers are based on some of my extrapolations and interpretations over this time. They are my take on Eldar and nothing more (and depend upon the value you wish to attach to my opinion!). Feel free to posit contrary theories in the comments.

Another caveat: Please try to keep questions relevant to themes and issues raised in Path of the Warrior. This is to keep the questions within the sphere of subjects I have already thought about – in the following two books, Path of the Seer and Path of the Outcast, I’ll be delving into Eldar psychics, Harlequins, space travel and all sorts of other things in more depth but I haven’t necessarily formed my own opinions and answers on those yet.

The last, and most important, caveat: There are contradictions in the established Eldar background. A good example is the nature of Eldar Exarchs and whether they become meshed with their armour. In most cases I have used the most recent Codexes and material, but I have also taken a few liberties for the sake of storytelling. In doing so I have probably created new contradictions. Sorry about that…

Question for the day, from Xisor:

“ Exarchs are Exarchs because they’re ‘trapped by Khaine’. Taking Eldar overlap of myth and actual ‘scientific/precise’ language, is the nature of ‘becoming an exarch’ related to the continued existence/pull of the god?”

Right, let’s get started with some nice theology/ metaphysics! First off we must decide how much of Khaine as an entity is a mythological analogy and, because of the funkiness of the warp, how much a reality. At a basic level, as with all myths and belief systems, the Eldar gods are analogies. Khaine is a representation of the murderous passion and destructive potential that exists within every Eldar. As such, his continuing existence is simply a reflection of the Eldar’s continued need for aggression and violence (mainly to protect themselves in a hostile universe).

It is explicitly stated that Eldar can become trapped on any Path, so for those of the Path of the Warrior this is described as being trapped by Khaine. Are healers who do not move from their path trapped by Isha? Are Bonesingers trapped by Vaul? From that standpoint it might simply be a feature of the Eldar language that the state of becoming an Exarch is simply described in these terms; a linguistic shorthand.

However, this leads one to wonder why it is the Eldar believe that the other gods were slain when Khaine survived, as they still need healers and engineers but do not require the continued existence of Isha and Vaul to explain this. Which brings us to the Avatars…

I would say that the continuing existence of Khaine in the form of the Avatars is a chicken-and-egg situation. For much of the time this fragment of psychic energy given material form is inert. The Avatar sits dormant until the call to war, so it must be assumed that it has only a small effect upon the Eldar in this state otherwise they would be in a state of permanent, violent agitation. As described in the background, it appears that the process of awakening the Avatar is begun from within the Avatar itself, and is completed by the Exarchs and Warlocks with the sacrifice of the Young King. What first stirs the Avatar?

The Avatar’s throne is connected to the Infinity Circuit of the craftworld, itself a gestalt psychic intelligence of the living and dead Eldar; each is also a sub-network of the massive Eternal Matrix that exists alongside the webway connecting all of the craftworlds together on a faint but potentially powerful psychic level. That the Infinity Circuit is mainly powered by the psychic energy of the dead may be important here. The death of the Eldar gods, their removal from the warp, may be a euphemism for the withdrawing of the Eldar psychic presence from the warp into the semi-material world of the Infinity Circuits. Whatever powers were once represented by Isha and Vaul. Kurnous and Lileath, no longer exist as part of the diminishment of the Eldar following the Fall.

For reasons of pure survival if nothing else, the Eldar needed to keep their god of war; their intrinsic capability for violence. This manifested itself in the forming of the Avatars as a lodestone for their violent tendencies. The psychic gestalt of the Infinity Circuit exists on a level beyond the material and so can work as an early warning system for oncoming conflict. It resonates with the minds of the Eldar, so as Farseers and Exarchs, and other Eldar, become troubled to a certain level, even on an unconscious plane, the Infinity Circuit will pick up on this and respond by stirring the Avatar, thus signalling that war is approaching and the Eldar need to prepare.

In ‘real’ terms, I see it like this. When the Fall happens and Slaanesh is created, the psychic energy of the Eldar, as represented by the mythical gods, clashes with the newly born Warp Power. Obviously within the context of the mythology, this conflict would be represented by Khaine, their god of war. While the Eldar die in their billions, a small fragment of their surviving warp presence manages to protect a few, becoming manifested as the Avatars of Khaine.

What does this mean for the Exarchs? For this we have to go back to Asurmen and the founding of the shrines. In my version of events, the Avatars were born active to some degree; that is, they exerted their warlike influence over the Eldar, protecting them against the birth of Slaanesh. However, Khaine’s continued presence (that is, the continuation of the capability for extreme rage and violence within the Eldar psyche) would soon become as much of a peril as the emotional free-for-all that led to the Fall. The Avatars were feeding on and being fed by the Slaanesh-Eldar conflict in the warp. They needed to be put in their place, and this meant that the Eldar had to learn to control their warlike instincts.

This brings us to Asurmen and the first Aspect Temples. Asurmen was able to create the first path, that of the warrior, which through ritual and practice allows the Eldar to suppress their violent instincts until needed. To do so, Asurmen first needed to embrace his violent nature rather than fight it from outside, mastering his urges with pure willpower. In order to spread the teaching of the path, he recruited the first Exarchs, Eldar capable of performing the same feat of will. This teaching, the Path of the Eldar, will always require instructors for following generations, and thus there must always be a few Eldar willing, unconsciously but probably guided by the Infinity Circuit as hinted at in Path of the Warrior, to embrace their warrior nature in order that they can pass on the techniques of control required for the Eldar to keep their violent tendencies at bay; also to continue to promulgate the martial prowess required to keep the Eldar alive in a universe that seems determined to destroy them.

In summary, the Exarchs exist to contain the continued influence of Khaine on the one hand, but also to ensure Khaine’s continued existence. A rather distasteful but appropriate analogy can be made with a Champion of a Chaos God. A Chaos Champion requires the input of warp energy from his chosen deity to continue to achieve his goals, while the Chaos Power he serves requires mortal followers to continue to propagate its existence. The Eldar need to be able to fight but not be consumed again by violence, and so between them the Exarchs and the Avatar exist to act as a valve mechanism for this destructive behaviour.

More later…

http://mechanicalhamster.wordpress.com/2010/09/23/introspections-on-perfection/

Here for noting, cross posted in background for discussion...

When was this announced? Looks like another compilation?

http://www.amazon.com/Age-Darkness-Horus-Heresy/dp/1849700370/ref=reg_hu-wl_list-recs

The Age of Darkness (Horus Heresy) [Mass Market Paperback]
Christian Dunn (Editor)

Product Description
After the betrayal at Isstvan, Horus begins his campaign against the Emperor, a galaxy-wide war that can lead only to Terra. But the road to the final confrontation between father and son is a long one – seven years filled with secrecy and silence, plans and foundations being formed across distant stars. An unknown history is about to be unveiled as light is shed on the darkest years of the Horus Heresy, and revelations will surface that will shake the Imperium to its very foundation...

Product Details
Mass Market Paperback: 416 pages
Publisher: Games Workshop (April 26, 2011)

^ A while ago dude, I can't wait thou becasue Tales of Heresy was an excellent read.

Well it wasn't mentioned in this thread, which has been going since 09.
At least search didn't find any thing.

reds8n wrote:Something cool from Mr. Thorpe.
http://mechanicalhamster.wordpress.com/2010/09/23/introspections-on-perfection/

Here for noting, cross posted in background for discussion...

Wow, thats quite an expansive answer And an interesting point of view as well. The book was pretty good too.
Except for the path of the dreamer. Thats just, awkward

skrulnik wrote:Well it wasn't mentioned in this thread, which has been going since 09.
At least search didn't find any thing.

I mentioned it a few pages back, but if you really want proper info, check the BL site..

It wasn't on the Black Library "Horus Heresy" section. That's where I looked first.

Their coming soon page has the same blurb as Amazon.

BL has an upcoming release page, all books go there first and are moved to their relevant pages when they are released....

I don't mean to seem like I hate Black Library when I say this or something, but, do you think Black Library might publish a book about a race other than Imperium related?

I know that they have had some Eldar, and Fire warrior back it 03' but I don't feel that justifies for the dozens and dozens of Imperium books.

<---wishes there was more Tau lore.

Has anyone heard anything new from the BL seminars at Games Day?

We need info!

Where is the Red One!

..god my back hurts, all those shiny new books.

.. I budgeted carefully and considered my purchases, reasoning that I only needed one or two of the early release books, after all I haven't quite finished the Sabbat Worlds anthology and have only listened to Aenarion a few times. I can always buy them when they come out and...

.... well... £70 odd later I stagger out with all the new books. And the extra copy of the BA collectors edition short for my mate. And a first Heretic poster.

Spoke to several artists and authors -- Messrs. Thorpe and Wraight were, as ever, impeccably polite and a pleasure to chat to.

I, and indeed all Corax fans, will, I am sure, be eagerly awaiting a certain tome from Mr Thorpe ...next year with a bit of luck..? .. that should help fill in some of the gaps. Relating to a certain infamous event.

Didn't make the seminar(s) I'm afraid, picked up a few snippets here and there, thankfully of course we're kept quite well informed as to BL's future plans -- a point I thanked any and all of the BL staff for whenever I got the chance.

Special thansk to the Bl staff for, again, having the most organised and well run section of the whole day. Pissed all over the efforts made by some elements of the rest of the company here and there.

..The Bl short really does leave things nicely poised for the entire BA Legion, all 100K odd of them, to go to a certain system to a certain planet where they should fight a certain bunch of demons

Any thing on the Hammer and Bolter?

reds8n wrote:

I, and indeed all Corax fans, will, I am sure, be eagerly awaiting a certain tome from Mr Thorpe ...next year with a bit of luck..? .. that should help fill in some of the gaps. Relating to a certain infamous event.

Wait... what's this?!?


I don't know for sure, but it is certainly one thing - excellent news!

Lord of battles wrote:Any thing on the Hammer and Bolter?

They gave out some free discs with, I believe, the first issue on. I haven;t had a chance to do anything with that at all yet, sorry, further announcements to follow.

Think I mentioned it before.. but if any of you budding would be authors have some short stories..well..get polishin'. A wise man would perhaps look to write in the "modern" 40K era.. and ..well... those Chaos Space Marine characters sure are treacherous aren't they eh ?

So did anyone besides myself pick up the new HH audio book Garro : Oath of Moment. I am curious about everyone's thoughts?

From some bloke who attended some of the BL stuff:

Well the big important news from BL in my own opinion, is that they are letting first time authors start by looking into the 4 big bad Chaos boys, with an anthology set to be released in 2012. You can submit your own work from now until the 22nd October (2 days after my birthday lol) so anything on Khan, Ahriman, Lucius or Typhon is open, which is a first for Black Library.
The Space Marines battles series aren't going to be all about events that are well known. After The Fall of Damnos, there is one about the Silver Skulls that was inspired by 2 sentences in the Space Marines Codex.

Well I guess thats the biggest news. I sat in on the Writing for Black Library seminar this afternoon and the Q+A focused on the search for fresh blood. Garro: Oath of Moment is a very cool audio book, and the second book in the Tome of Fire trilogy is quite possibly the best book in the BL I have read so far.

NuclearMessiah wrote:So did anyone besides myself pick up the new HH audio book Garro : Oath of Moment. I am curious about everyone's thoughts?

Got it, haven't heard it yet, looking forward to it a lot.

I dont want to ruin it so.



Also for you Ultra fans you get a taste of the Battle of Calith in it.

More from Gav Thorpe on the Eldar..

Another from Xisor:

“What do you feel was your biggest ‘this might not make it’ idea that made it to the final cut? (Were there any such ideas which didn’t?)”

The answer to both questions is the same – Eldar gender-bending… For a long time I dabbled with the idea of having a prominent character who was a male member of the female Howling Banshees. I initially wanted to examine the somewhat fluid nature of Eldar gender and their attitude towards male and female roles and characteristics. In the end I abandoned it because it was too much to get across for a secondary character and would have been more confusing than enlightening; and it simply would have been too much to use such a character as the protagonist for the majority of the BL readership. I did, however, make a very small nod to this by having a female Exarch as the ‘Young King’; something that did cause some discussion with the editors but was eventually kept with a more explicit mention that the title was a non-gender honorific.

From LordLucan

“I liked the myth which hinted that exarchs were once the footsoldiers of Khaine against the normal eldar of Eldanesh. It could be taken as a metaphor or as a veiled reference to perhaps an actual civil war within the war in heaven. Was this a deliberate move on your part Gav?”

I like to muddy the waters when I can, and one thing that has bugged me a bit about a lot of the War in Heaven stuff is the mutation into part of the C’tan/ Necron background. Obviously such a monumental event would be featured in the Eldar mythology, but I wanted the myths to be a real mosaic of different things, not just a poetic record of a single period or event.

This is why some of the myths are deliberately contradictory to some of those already published in the background. A lot of the pantheistic mythologies started out as a real grab-bag of tales and beliefs, and even after a lot of recording and rationalisation they are far from consistent.

For me the War in Heaven is the Eldar take on the expulsion from paradise. At some stage, even before the Fall, the idyllic existence of the Eldar was torn apart by a cataclysmic event. The fact that Khaine, the embodiment of violence within the Eldar themselves, is at the root of this suggests to me a civil war of some kind. If the instigating figure had been Death – now equated to the C’tan Nightbringer in the background – that would have been more of an indication of external attack. How the two are connected, if at all, can remain a subject for fan (and author!) speculation.

There were already hints of division in the background with the rivalry between the houses of Eldanesh and Ulthranesh and I thought it would be cool to extend that a little further. Internal strife has been the downfall of countless civilisations and it seems natural to me that the almost eternal Eldar society would have suffered at least one internecine war. The myth itself I see as a warning against this sort of thing in general, rather than relating to one specific incident – they were likely several such divisions and unifications over the long existence of the pre-Fall civilisation.

More to follow…

http://mechanicalhamster.wordpress.com/

Oh, and

It seems to go better here than anywhere else.
Dan Abnett's Gamesday photos

Sigvald cover art

For the fourth book in our Warhammer Heroes series we're shining a light on the sinister, depraved world of Prince Sigvald the Magnificent. Series artist, Cheoljoo Lee, has done a great job of capturing Slannesh's most favoured son in all his decadent glory with this incredibly detailed piece of artwork. Sigvald is released in July.

The first one in this series, written by the charming Mr. Wraight was very good -- looking forward to the follow up a lot,and I picked up "Wulfrik" at GD UK, if that is good -- and it is C L Werner so I have high hopes, then this one too will suck £s from my wallet.

Any word from Gamesday on the ebooks? I thought they were mentioned.

The art for Sigvald is very very cool.

There was a stand were you could go and have a fiddle with..with..err... a ...ebookdeviceofsometype and see the "finished" items, all seemed nice enough, but that doesn't really do much for me I'm afraid, hairy nu-luddite that I am.

They also gave out a Cd sampler, with A Horus Rising and Garro : Oath of Moment audio extract, some wallpapers, and ebook versions of Sword of Justice, Nightbringer, First and Only -- complete versions, God King chapters 1 and 2, and it also has the entire first issue of "Hammer and Bolter" on it, which includes chapter 1 of Prospero Burns.

I haven't had a chance to skim it though.

AFAIK the ebooks and audio downloads will be on sale from the BL site in/from October.

Thanks!
I am eagerly awaiting more info on these ebooks as they will be an influence on which type of reader I end up buying.

I like having real books myself.
But with the limited runs they are doing, and the difficulty of finding books after time has passed make ebooks a good option.
I have been looking for the Heroes of the Space Marines book for awhile in stores. Its looking like I wait for the ebook or buy on Amazon.

Plus I don't have to wait for paperback to get a cheaper version, hopefully.

If it's format issues, you have seen the stuff on their site right ?

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Digital

In which formats will eBooks be available?

We will most probably produce our eBooks in Mobi (the Kindle format), ePub (most other eReaders such as the Sony Reader and Barnes & Noble Nook) at the very least. We are still looking into this; more info to come.

Mostly I wanted to see how they make them available.

If I can just get them through Borders, I lean toward the Nook.
With other readers I will have to rely on whatever previews BL gives away.
If they allow Borders to sell them, I can go to their shops and d/l and read them free while I am there.

I am not looking forward to UK prices for ebooks though. I notice on the BL site, the UK price in pounds is nearly the same as the US price in $.

(BTW, how do I get the symbol for pounds?)

They come in .epub and .mobi format, mobi is the Kindle format and I believe the epub can be read by the other readers.

reds8n wrote:

Oh, and

It seems to go better here than anywhere else.
Dan Abnett's Gamesday photos

Wow- Dembski-Bowden is actually quite intimidating in these shots. Maybe GW should start the casting process for their next movie in-house. That guy'd make a rather convincing penal legionnaire (I kid, ADB!) But perhaps these should be posted to the threads next time someone starts bagging on his work in a rude manner...

I hope they keep the prices of the ebooks down to a reasonable level... unlike every other ebook publisher around. I have a Sony reader, which is great, but I find it really odd that ebooks tend to cost *more* than paperbacks in the UK

http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2010/09/mind-meld-the-appeal-of-the-warhammer-40k-universe/

worth a read when you get a few minutes.

I bought a kindle recently and am frothing at the mouth for BL to release some material. You luddites should really give some consideration to an e-reader. You'll never look back. I'm racing through my obsolete paper version of the Ravenor Omnibus so that I'll never again have to suffer the indignity of needing two hands to read a book. I also won't have to wait a week for books to be shipped to Japan and I can travel with a library's worth of books without breaking my back.

For those of you who haven't already heard, the Black Library submissions window is reopening for a brief period to allow submissions for Treacheries of the Space Marines - a Chaos Marine-themed anthology coming in 2012 from Black Library.

Stories must be focussed on one of the following characters - Lucius, Ahriman, Khârn or Typhus - and we need no more than 1,000 words of synopsis and 500 words of sample text. All submissions should be sent to submissions@blacklibrary.com by 22 October 2010. Authors whose work is deemed of a high enough standard will then be given 3 months to produce a 10,000 word short story based upon their synopsis.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Getting-Started/FAQ-Working-For-Black-Library.html

and once again...

More Eldary thoughts.

From Xhalax:

“Dear. Mr Thorpe.

Are Harlequins trapped on a Path like the Exarchs are?

Thanks.”

The short answer is no. The long answer gives away too many of my ideas about Harlequins that I have vowed never to reveal in full. Here is the medium answer…

In the time leading up to, during and following the Fall, the Eldar society as it had been was fragmented. There were four different responses to the creation of Slaanesh and the potential doom of the Eldar, leading to the emergence of four different Eldar sub-societies.

Let’s deal with the Exodites first. They saw something of the cataclysm to come and decided to try to wind back time. They left for the Maiden Worlds and retrenched their lives in a culture that existed (or they believed to have existed) before the descent into hedonism that led to the Fall. Their attitude harks back in time, trying to reverse the state of the Eldar. The spirits of their dead are locked up in the World Spirit of each Maiden World, forever protected from Slaanesh but divorced from reality, unable to truly die.

Then we have the Craftworld Eldar. They fled at the time of the Fall, and through the creation and adoption of the Eldar path, they seek to maintain the status quo, suppressing the cultural and personal factors that led to the Fall. They are in stasis, neither going back nor going forward. Their spirits end up in the infinity circuit of each Craftworld, neither dead nor alive, trapped for eternity but able to be given the semblance of life again in spirit stones.

Next are the Dark Eldar. I don’t know what new information and revelations may be in the forthcoming codex, but here’s where we were the last time I talked to anyone else about this sort of thing. The Dark Eldar strive to maintain the society of the Eldar as it was at the time of the Fall, ignoring the lesson of the past but unable to move forward. They live entirely in the present, hand-to-mouth in a psychic sense, sustaining their existence on a day-by-day basis. Their spirits are drained and replenished in an unending cycle.

Which brings us to the Harlequins. They see themselves as the future of the Eldar. They look upon the other Eldar societies and see that all of them are simply trying to survive rather than change. They are the true radicals of the Eldar, and they have a plan so audacious it fills other Eldar with horror. Their plan, their existence, stems from the myth of the Laughing God. This myth tells us that the Laughing God, Cegorach, eluded Slaanesh’s grasp and survives to this day. He is the only god to have properly survived the Fall according to the Harlequins, and in this lies their secret.

The myth goes on to say that every now and then Cegorach steals the soul of an Eldar from under the nose of Slaanesh, spiriting it away to safety (possibly whilst dancing, that’s Harlequins for you). They believe that in the long term, the only way to defeat Slaanesh is to break the link between the Eldar and She Who Thirsts. The Harlequins see themselves as those saved by the Laughing God, and in performing their masques, and in particular the Dance Without End, seek to show the other Eldar that the Fall cannot be turned back, it cannot be ignored, it cannot be appeased. The future of the Eldar depends upon being able to live in freedom from Slaanesh’s grip, and the only way to do that is to be rescued by the Laughing God. Their spirits…? Their spirits are saved by Cegorach, free to live and die without the touch of Slaanesh.

http://mechanicalhamster.wordpress.com/2010/10/05/introspections-pt-iii/

@reds8n - Can you give us a rundown on the stories and authors in the Sabbat Worlds anthology? I've been looking online and can't find info on the stories included.

Will do, I'm at work right now, but when I get home I'l crack on with it if I can't dig up anything befroehand.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Death By Monkeys wrote:@reds8n - Can you give us a rundown on the stories and authors in the Sabbat Worlds anthology? I've been looking online and can't find info on the stories included.

Apostles' Creed --Graham McNeill -- a story about the elite pilot squadron that first appeared in "Double Eagle".

The Headstone and the Hammerstone Kings -- Matthew Farrer -- The story takes place on the same world as and after "Necropolis", and mainly deals with the Ad. Mech and the Imperium's attempts to deal with the aftermath of the conflict, especially with regards to the Woe and Murder machines used by the Archenemy in that conflict.

Regicide -- Aaron Dembski-Bowden -- A tale of the death of Slaydo on Balhaut, follows on from some of the story points raised in "Blood Pact".

The Iron Star -- Dan Abnett -- A reprint of the 2008 GD Uk chapter book. The story is set between "Only in Death" and "Blood Pact".

Cell -- Nik Vincent -- A story about a resistence cell on a chaos occupied planet.

Blueblood -- Nick Kyme -- A story about the Volpone Bluebloods who appeared in some of the earlier Ghost books.

A Good Man -- Sandy Mitchell -- Another tale set in the ruined aftermath of Verghast as the Imperium tries to rebuild and carry on.

Of Their Lives in the Ruins of Their Cities -- Dan Abnett. A straight out new Gaunts Ghost tale. It's set EARLY on in the series. Nice to "see" some old friends again.

Overall I was happy with the book. A nice mix of authors, styles and characters/forces. Oddly enough I think Mr. Mitchell's tale was my favourite one, I liked the look into an aspect of the setting we don't see very often. It was very human in its nature.

I struggled a bit with Mr. Farrer's tale, but I never really clicked or took to his Arbiter series either. Something about his writing style just doesn't quite gel for me. He structures his tales well though and invents some marvellous and very 40K terms and words.

..Actually, upon reflection, I guess the last story was my favourite, I am, ridicukously really I suppose, fond of the Ghosts and it was oddly enjoyable to read about some of the since departed once again.

Ha! Who'd be a fanboy eh !

.. Chapter One of "Prospero Burns" is very good too, that's going to be a cracker IMO>

Gav Thorpe has posted some info about the next BL collectors book, this time it's a fantasy one.

As I promised on Facebook, here are a few sneaky peaks at The Bloody-handed, my forthcoming limited edition novella for The Sundering. It takes a closer look at Hellebron’s early days in the cult of the Lord of Murder, and is packed with some really cool illustrations too.

This one looks a bit more promising after the somewhat mixed results from the first 2.

I really like Gav's Elven stuff, but sadly I can't afford it.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Digital

get yerself a nice copy of issue #1 of "Hammer and Bolter", a good read indeed.

Prospero Burns seems very promising.

reds8n wrote:http://www.blacklibrary.com/Digital

get yerself a nice copy of issue #1 of "Hammer and Bolter", a good read indeed.

Prospero Burns seems very promising.

We knew that before we knew that, didn't we?!?

Thanks for the head's up and the link!

Just picked up a copy of The First Heretic. Happy Happy Happy.

I'll be picking my copy up in about 2 hours - and reading it straight away!

A D-B has quickly moved into the "buy anything he writes and read it immediately" category of BL writers.

And that is, for me anyway!, a very exclusive list...

Doh! Nevermind - thanks for the contents. I'm very much looking forward to getting my copy of Sabbat Worlds now. I'm a little disappointed that Apostle's Creed is about Double Eagle's Apostles (I imagine, including Larice Asche) rather than the Phantine XX, but that story's one of the one's I'm buying the book for. Nice to hear that Iron Star made it in and that there's another straight Ghosts tale in the book as well. I'm a big fan of the Cain novels and Verghast was one of my favorite settings, so A Good Man is another I'm looking forward to.

Thanks again!

Any time

I imagine, including Larice Asche

Follows her as she adapts to her new..... squadron. It's very bleak, very 40K.

Finally finished Path of the Warrior, can't wait for the Farseer and Harlequin books.

CD 1 of Horus Rising is up for grabs.

In the not too distant future "The Fleischer Omnibus" will be joining the Bl P.O.D. line up as well according to White Dwarf.

A good series IMHO, another one of those series that BL doesn't talk a lot about sadly.

The digital preorders are up:
http://www.blacklibrary.com/Digital

Kroothawk wrote:The digital preorders are up:
http://www.blacklibrary.com/Digital

Still @ 6.50GBP (inc VAT) which prices it at more than purchasing a book in a book store at full retail price in the US. Seems BL is run by dumbasses as well ... I mean, come on, what dumbass sets a pricing model where it prices a new product with lower production costs at a higher cost than the easily substitutable product (i.e paperback) for the whole of the US.

Not forgetting of-course a lovely foreign transaction fee charge by the bank when you purchase from BL direct in GBP.

Dumbasses.

Won't be purchasing and as a predominantly Nook user number of paperbacks I purchase has gone down.

A very quick Q & A from the latest youngwhippsnapper of an author to work for Bl and have great sales.. riding high in the Amazon charts..and well deserved it is too.

Just a quick update on my lunch break to answer some questions that winged their way to my eyes and ears recently, mostly regarding the Night Lords series. These are an amalgamation of jazz from various recent signings (Games Day, as well as Dublin and Belfast), my forum inboxes, my Facebook inbox, and junk from the forum spread that I can’t resist visiting.

Spoilers kept to a minimum – or at the very least, no stronger than those in ‘The Core’.



•“Who are the new characters in Blood Reaver?”
Blood Reaver features a few new major and minor players in the series. These are (in no particular order): Lucoryphus of the Bleeding Eyes, Variel the Flayer, Nonus, and Hound. Some of those you’ll know from their teasers in ‘The Core’, others you’ll have to guess.



•“Is Blood Reaver about Uzas, the way Soul Hunter was about Talos?”
Naw. Here’s the thing.

The Blood Reaver is one of the many titles used by Huron Blackheart, probably because his name is a bit silly and he’s shy about it. Blood Reaver (the novel, not the guy) still features Talos as the primary protagonist, but he’s slowly changing from his desperately lost passivity in Soul Hunter. This is where he starts to realise that just surviving might not be enough in the Long War. With everything degenerating around the crew of the Covenant of Blood, perhaps it’s time to fight back or just accept defeat. Even though he has no desire for leadership, others in the Legion look to him for guidance, and it’s much harder to claim “Guys, I’m not Malcharion’s heir, honestly” when he’s actually carrying the war-sage’s bolter.

Time to nut up or shut up, you know?

Beyond that, the others in First Claw do show up a little more. Uzas, Xarl, Cyrion and Mercutian get a lot more screen time, as does Variel (obviously, because in Blood Reaver we see how he joins First Claw in the first place).



•“I read on Forum X that one of First Claw dies in Blood Reaver.”
No, cupcake. You read that in one of the middle chapters, I accidentally killed one of them while indulging in a side-plot, and subsequently rewrote the entire chapter because it was stupid and irrelevant. (You’re starting to see why this novel is late, right?) I’d never give a spoiler that a character actually died – that would be ball-achingly lame.

That said, it’s war. Soldiers die in war. That’s what makes it a war, and not a particularly immersive game of Lazer Tag.



•“What is the Exalted? A Daemon Prince? A Possessed? A Chaos Lord close to Spawnhood?”
This gets explored a little more in Blood Reaver, actually.

Seriously, as much as I cleave to the background as described in the codices, you’ve got to realise that the game’s rules don’t always represent the lore all that well. Chaos doesn’t just touch people and say “You’re X, you’re Y, you’re Z.” It’s Chaos. It’s chaotic. Chaos would infuse its victi– uh, its followers with whatever the hell it wanted. Most Chaos Gifts wouldn’t fit neatly into the army lists in the back of a codex, like.

That said, I can shed some light on this. Vandred (the VIII Legion 10th Captain) is a lesser consciousness in the creature that is now The Exalted. Cyrion knows this – he comments on it in Soul Hunter. So the Exalted is something like a Daemon Prince in that he’s been, uh, promoted like they have. But with his ascension came possession, like one of the weaker “battlefield” Possessed. In short, he’s either a Daemon Prince that doesn’t fight the way most others do, or he’s a really, really powerful Possessed. Both are true. Or neither. I don’t care, leave me alone.



•“Why do you always say ‘Astartes’ in your novels?”
Because I hate the way “Space Marines” sounds.

They’re post-humans. They’re technically a different subspecies, vaguely similar to the way a mule is different from a horse or a donkey, but has bits of both. They’re Homo Astartes (stop laughing, you at the back), not Homo Sapiens.

“Space Marines” connotes something very lame, very generic, to me. “Astartes” doesn’t.



•“Why does Talos dream about the Eldar? / Will the Eldar prophecies feature in the third novel?”
Okay.

I’ve been open and up front since the beginning on this one. The trilogy has a very distinct focus, split by both physical and the mental considerations. Mentally, the storyline is about facing up to responsibility in the face of temptation, vengeance, corruption, loneliness – or some combination of all four. All of the characters face that to some degree; it’s intrinsic to the whole deal. But physically, the narrative is about getting back to the Eye of Terror alive, albeit in a roundabout way, after the Legion wears out its welcome in Imperial space.

The third novel, probably called Void Stalker, is about the final stretch on the road home. At the end of Soul Hunter (and throughout Blood Reaver) Talos suffers increasingly violent premonitions about the Eldar. If you’d not already guessed they’d be fighting the Eldar at some point, then frankly, I suck at my job. But whatever.

The Night Lords have their sanctuary in sight by the end of the series. But what orbits the Eye of Terror? What colossal, half-ruined remnant of a fallen empire might just be in the way of them reaching home?

Exactly. Craftworld Ulthwe.



•“If Talos is the Soul Hunter, Huron is the Blood Reaver, who’s the Void Stalker?”
Your mum.

I’m not telling you, stop asking. Just wait a year and a half.



•“Why do the Night Lords eat other Astartes’ gene-seed?”
For a few reasons, and none of them nice.

Firstly, it’s the threat of cannibalistic desecration. When you’re fighting other Astartes (an enemy that can’t feel fear) the best you can do is let them know that if they lose, you’re going to do some absolutely horrible things to their dead bodies. It might buy you a second’s distraction.

Secondly, it’s not an idle threat. It’s a vicious way of ensuring that your enemy knows his death will never serve his Chapter. Think about it this way: Astartes aren’t just warriors, they’re also incubators for progenoid glands – they carry the “seed” necessary to make the next generation, just in a sterile and sexless way compared to humans. By threatening to eat to eat an Astartes’ progenoid organs, you’re removing a massive piece of his legacy in the Chapter, as well as harming the Chapter’s future. You don’t just kill the warrior, you deny the creation of any others that would’ve followed in an unbroken genetic line.

Thirdly, Talos was an Apothecary. When he makes the threat, it’s something that shows the absolute depths of his hatred for the Imperium – and, by that virtue, everything that he once was.

And lastly, because of this: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine#Omophagea

http://aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/2010/10/27/recent-night-lords-series-questions/

Glad to see an author utilising some of the more..esoteric..marine abilities, I particulary enjoyed the use of this by Mr. Kyme in his Black reach novella.

Holy.. gak.. that is just awesome. Not the basic thing of eating to know thy enemy, but as a form of terror.

edit.

Graham did the same in that Ultras novel where he has snooty sergeant eat the brains of a Tau scout. I can't remember names right now, flu be damned.

That particular ability seems to be making a comeback!

It was also utilized by the Raven Guard in THE HUNT FOR VOLDORIUS too...

I'm guessing they want to make Astartes awesome again and not knights in shining armour with raised pinkies.

See, I liked A-D-B's books, now I like him too.

Seems to be a very likable, witty and out-going dude who just so happens to write some great novels. I'm gonna have to re-read Soul-Hunter, but I can't wait for his next work.

Thanks Reds8n.

Question from me would be:
Why is Talos made so ridiculously overpowered so that when I read a novel with Talos in it I can rest assured that no matter what happens he will always end up defeating a n y t h i n g without breaking a sweat?
Half the suspense is killed in knowing that the main character(s) are untouchables.

ADB should learn from writers like Kyme when it comes to character suspense.

Could be worse, Sandy has this in droves. Both with his Cain and Dark Heresy novels really.

True, although I see the Cain novels as partially pure humor and thus allow for the glorification of poor scared Caine.

The absolute worst author in regards to this lame phenomenon must be A. Reynolds with the word bearer novels.
Those combine a worse disregard for fluff then Swallows Blood Angel novels and worse character suspense killing and disproportional power levels then ADB displays.

Are they really not going to have a US based page for digital books? I'm pretty sure it's one of the larger reading markets for ereaders at this point so it would only make sense. As it stands it's significantly more expensive to buy an ebook than a paperback in my local B&N. Makes me sad. I can take an extra buck for certain authors like Jim Butcher, David Weber, or Eric Flint. But asking me to pay more for what equates to our version of trashy romance novels just doesn't work for me. Pity, would have been nice to have them available to read all at ounce. I would have loved to have all of Gaunts Ghosts, The Horus Heresy, or Gotrek novels to read in a row. Oh well...

Seems strange that if they already have them converted to ePub or Mobi that they don't just release them to B&N or Amamzon.
I bet they would make more that way than just selling them from their own site. Not to mention saving in bandwidth and tech support...

Selling through others would result in them making less of a profit.

I don't think most people State-side are going to be willing to pay nearly $10 a paperback before the charge for the conversion. That's pretty harsh as I have problems wanting to pay more than $7-8. That's only a dollar less than they sell "hardbacks" for on a nook or kindle. If they just sold them via amazon/b&n for $9 most people would probably be cool with it. But 10+conversion falls into the silly category for me.

Pyriel- wrote:Question from me would be:
Why is Talos made so ridiculously overpowered so that when I read a novel with Talos in it I can rest assured that no matter what happens he will always end up defeating a n y t h i n g without breaking a sweat?

And my answer would be the same as the last time you said that nonsense about me. "You're wrong, and here's why." In fact, I'll just restate it:


"

Pyriel- wrote:

1) I don't think he really likes Loyalist Marines. Traitor Marines, yes. Loyal, no.

So true, he kills of dozens of loyalists for every traitor...

"This is beyond exaggeration and balls-deep into lying, sorry. You're thinking, I assume, of the one time any Night Lords met Blood Angels, in Soul Hunter? And that was against half a Tactical Squad and a Dreadnought. So, y'know, get it right, yo. As for them "killing a Titan" it becomes much easier to understand when it's only a Warhound, and they had , too.

But by all means, keep making stuff up."

--- --- ---

No offence, guy. I mean, you have an axe to grind and I can respect that. I have plenty, too. Christ, do I ever hate Star Trek...

But I tend to, like, go after stuff that I know I'm right about, rather than flail blindly and lie. If you genuinely think that character is overpowered, then I recommend you read, uh, absolutely any other Space Marine novel published by the Black Library, to see examples of characters much more powerful, surviving much more difficult situations, with much less effort.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Just Dave wrote:See, I liked A-D-B's books, now I like him too.

Seems to be a very likable, witty and out-going dude who just so happens to write some great novels. I'm gonna have to re-read Soul-Hunter, but I can't wait for his next work.

Thanks Reds8n.

I'm not likeable, trust me. I am a fountain of loathing and disgu-- Hot damn, is that a Monkey Island avatar? Dude. That's freaking killer.

BrookM wrote:Selling through others would result in them making less of a profit.

But it would be much more than not selling them at all.

Dead Blue Clown wrote:

Just Dave wrote:See, I liked A-D-B's books, now I like him too.

Seems to be a very likable, witty and out-going dude who just so happens to write some great novels. I'm gonna have to re-read Soul-Hunter, but I can't wait for his next work.

Thanks Reds8n.

I'm not likeable, trust me. I am a fountain of loathing and disgu-- Hot damn, is that a Monkey Island avatar? Dude. That's freaking killer.

You may well be a fountain of loathing, disgu-- (ust) and an awfully long name, however you are officially likeable in my books considering you are a Monkey Island fan and the first to comment on said avatar. Also, Space Marines/Cannibalism. Obviously copied from the fruit-faced dudes off monkey Island. Obviously. I see it. *shifty eyes*

I've lurked here for ages, but was reluctant to add it to the list of forums I already post on. However, Pyriel annoyed me enough to break that trend.

Cool, we annoy the crap of each others so it seems.

And in a fight with even numbers, and with the Night Lords in ambush, with the home court advantage, they still barely won. Two guys were practically crippled, another guy could barely move at all, one was dead, and the dreadnought (who was the other reason they had psychological advantage, because he'd killed the Blood Angel dreadnought in life) was slain.

They still barely won?

2 got crippled while almost half a company blood angels including their dreadnought and scout support got completely wasted.
*laughs*

Hope they executed that BA captain for the biggest incompetence in the galaxy, he if anyone should have known how boarding action is to be waged against fellow astartes but instead he instant-wasted the lives of all of his company. Poor Dante must have gotten a really big headache after reading that report.
Imo that was a very bad way of solving a problem in the novel. It could have been done so much better and also belivable to add.

But by all means, keep dreaming this "barely won" rubbish up, if you believe in it that´s your problem.

But I tend to, like, go after stuff that I know I'm right about, rather than flail blindly and lie. If you genuinely think that character is overpowered, then I recommend you read, uh, absolutely any other Space Marine novel published by the Black Library, to see examples of characters much more powerful, surviving much more difficult situations, with much less effort.

Not quite true here although if you will notice I´m not calling you an outright lier just because you got your facts twisted.

Most novels dont deal with a mass killing, untouchable, ever powerful, super character with absolutely no martial flaws.
The soul hunter novels fall into the lower echelons when it comes to power level abusement but more novels then not fall in the more balanced category.

Whole of the horus heresy series you really bite your nails since nothing is certain except the main villains that are bound to live (by GWs canon fluff).
You have Grahams works, I can never be sure how they end and despite the main character is almost bound to survive he does get his behind severly kicked in all sorts of melee while his side kick is never a certain card when it comes to survival.

Kymes novels are the absolute best when it comes to this, an important characteris wearing a terminator armour? doesnt need to mean anything, he can easily die.
This is called suspense.

Neither of these including the space wolf novels are about an untouchable superman marine with his unkillable mini squad in heels wading through titans, enemy companies and god knows what other horrors with the nastiest thing ever happening to them is loosing a leg.

Having pure crap like Reynolds word bearer trilogy is another matter, I´m not comparing the last soul hunter novel to them, it is far far superior in every way except for a bit of that untouchable we-always-win thing but even this is far from up to Reynolds levels. His there the three main characters NEVER die, NEVER lose and can NEVER, ever be beaten in combat.
The books are so predictable that if the word bearers were to kill the Emperor of mankind himself they would only need the three main characters to do it. One kills of every custodian, one plans it all and the third offs the emperor, easy like peanuts and done before the afternoon tea.

The first soul hunter novel was a marvel imo, a true suspense book with tons and tons of character, character creation and I could never quite feel "safe" in having the main character surviving or not.
I read it in one long go and almost screamed for more

The last soul hunter novel is a disappointment simply for the reason the above is watered down so much with blatant favoritism. Sure there is a very good character build and the fluff is wonderful but thee are the only two reasons I will even consider buying and reading a follow up novel because as soon as combat is touched it becomes apparent what a propaganda boost the novel is towards the soul hunter and his invincible squad.
Not even the squad member that lost in melee vs that blood angel was allowed to die of since tataaa, soul hunter and his final fantasy magical sword of utter victory just had to show up and massacre all the BAs like there was no tomorrow...oh sorry, I forgot, they "barely won having lost an entire two marines against what was it again 40-50?.
lol

As for taking care of titans the novel left me with one gigantic question.
How come Abbaddon, the conquering genius he is, didnt realize the super potential of having the 10 or so night lords annihilate entire titan legions?
I mean all that is missing are a couple of under equipped thunderhawks and some landraiders, surely a landraider and one night lord is a superb tradeof for an imperial titam.
I´d do it any given day.

Have you read Kymes short novel about the salamanders terminators boarding the same space hulk as the night lords? There is suspense in spades, you could never know who would end up dead.

Having read the same short novel from the night lords perspective all I could say to myself was that the salmanders terminator squad were SO lucky that they didnt stumble upon a lone soul hunter and his mini team of invincibles in the corridors, they would stand as much chance as ice cream in hell.

If a novel leaves you with this kind of expectations afterwards then something is clearly wrong.
Why does it do that then, that is if you want to know instead of just laugh all critique away like someone who cant take it?
Well, "maybe" because all they ever do is win, every engagement is a victory, a setback is immediately countered with bounty that more then makes up any little loss.
In the end the reader is expecting nothing else then a walkover against whatever main problem the characters are faced with.
Soul hunter meets titan = win!
Soul hunter meets black legion = win!
Soul hunter meets lack of materiel for hi super ship = vision = instant win!
Soul hunter meets the Salamanders = win!
Soul hunter meets the blood angels = epic win!
Soul Hunter meets internal strife on ship = Win!

What´s next? Soul hunter meets the emperor and his custodian guard = win again?

You see in the end when I read further and further I´m just left with Soul hunter meets X = *yawn* A win? Who would have thought. *yawn*
There is no setback, no major loss, no fails, no struggle that leads to dead ends and forces another path, no instances other then walkover wins.

ADB last novel is far from there but he clearly displays the kind of balance flaws in his writing that Reynolds swims in which is rather sad imo since I love the non combat (power balance) side of ADBs novels.


Helsreach was superb, no overdoing any characters power levels and this simple fact alone accounted for a wholly different experience for me.
As a final word, I dont care how much you call me a liar or claim that combat in ADBs latest SH novel are fair (lol), as long as you think loosing two marines while massacring half a company in return is equal to "barely won" then sorry but I simply cannot take you any serious.
If you feel so annoyed then ask why I feel so rather then go sandbox on me acting like you cannot take any form of critique what so ever.
I have valid points, meet them instead of act all high and mighty, annoyed and hide it all away with comments like "you are lying".
Last time I checked I pointed out BOTH the good things in the novels as well as the bad.

Pyriel- wrote:
2 got crippled while almost half a company blood angels including their dreadnought and scout support got completely wasted.
*laughs*

Oh, I get it. You're not lying - you're actually wrong. I think there are several key moments you's misunderstood the situation.

I was talking about 2 squads fighting. Y'know, the only action you get to see? You're making the rest up and assuming it's truth.

Pyriel- wrote:Not even the squad member that lost in melee vs that blood angel was allowed to die of since tataaa, soul hunter and his final fantasy magical sword of utter victory just had to show up and massacre all the BAs like there was no tomorrow...oh sorry, I forgot, they "barely won having lost an entire two marines against what was it again 40-50?.

Nope. Again, that's you misunderstanding the situation completely, despite it explained to you clearly. You have no idea what happened in the entire fight, because you only saw one squad of Night Lords (with ambushing advantage) fight one squad of Blood Angels. And even then, the Night Lords barely won, and took grievous damage. That's all you know, because that's all that's in the novel. The rest, you're making up. The novel ended before the full damage/losses were even shown. We saw one squad with a dreadnought fight one squad with a dreadnought. That's all. And, honestly, if you think First Claw came out of that smiling, I suggest you actually read the book this time.

With home court advantage and attacking from an ambush, with psychological advantage, too - against equal numbers - one of them died (in that fight where you claim no one died), 2 were practically crippled, and the dreadnought was destroyed. If you find that unrealistic, then rock on. But, simply put, it's not. The rest of the fighting going on aboard the strike cruiser was never shown, because the book ended before that part. But there were a lot of Night Lords on board, y'know. It wasn't 5 guys against 40. We saw one of the fights, out of many.

Pyriel- wrote:If you feel so annoyed then ask why I feel so rather then go sandbox on me acting like you cannot take any form of critique what so ever.

It's a myth that writers can't take criticism. The only issue is when the criticism, y'know, makes no sense, or is basically just nonsense. Then it's not actually criticism, it's just useless noise.

Your deal here is simple. You're assuming a lot of stuff happened, despite the fact it didn't. That's why there's no way to argue with you. The sky's blue, but you're raving that it's yellow.

And incidentally, the 2 stories in Fear the Alien that you refer to? The reason me and Nick didn't have our main characters meet was because 5 Night Lords would have no chance against an Imperial Astartes Terminator squad. So we avoided that happening.

Here's the issue, and why what you're saying basically makes no sense:

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets titan = win!

Nope. A Land Raider, a Thunderhawk, and a squad of Space Marines that have melta bombs, manage to topple a Warhound Titan over. Bit of a difference from what you're saying, isn't it? Have you ever played Apocalypse? Do you know much about how powerful (and conversely, vulnerable) a little Warhound is in the lore? Or are you just clinging to that silly nonsense about one invincible squad?

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets black legion = win!

Uh, when? When Abaddon shoots Talos, and Talos goes down like a punk without getting to even fire a single shot? When he runs away after recovering, instead of trying to fight? When he doesn't encounter a single Black Legion warrior, and kills a few humans, then flees? Is that the "win" you're lying about?

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets lack of materiel for hi super ship = vision = instant win!

You mean the short story where they're indulging in piracy? They're pirates, man. It's how they spend most of their lives: trying to get new gear for the ship. Also, it's a series about a prophet. You can't criticise him for having visions that benefit him. That's his freaking job, and in Soul Hunter, it still shows he's bad at that, getting stuff wrong the whole way through.

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets the Salamanders = win!

That never happens, though. Talos never meets the Salamanders. 20 Raptors meet a few Salamander terminators, and not only do 10 of the Raptors die after managing to kill only one single Terminator, but they can't kill the other Terminators at all, so they lure genestealers to that part of the ship and seal them in with the Terminators instead. And even then, they only get a few of them. The Night Lords categorically lost that fight. That was the whole point. So, again, you're talking nonsense.

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets the blood angels = epic win!

Already explained. You misunderstood the situation completely.

Pyriel- wrote:Soul Hunter meets internal strife on ship = Win!

What does this even mean? It's vague and, forgive me for saying, but it's likely as valid as the other stuff you've insisted happened, when none of it did.


EDIT: I started this sort of angry, but now I get it. If I'd thought all that stuff had happened, I'd think Talos and co. were overpowered goons, too. I hope that explanation cleared a lot of it up.

Nice to see you again Mr. D.B.C.

I must admit, I don't really agree that the Night Lords had an easy time of it in Soul Hunter...

Nearly finished "Firedrake" and am enjoying it immensely, read "Dead Men Walking" and thought this was easily Mr. Lyons' strongest work to date for the BL yet. Suitably bleak indeed for the subjects.

Hoping to both get Heretic and Firedrake in the mail one of these days soon. I'm especially looking forward to the latter, seeing as the first book and the short story I've read made me want more. I just hope that I won't stumble across the words pauldron and plastron all the time.

Could I get a synopsis on Battle for the Abyss, complete with any massive spoilers? (put in tags of course!) I've tried reading it for a third time now but simply can't. Maybe it's the flu, maybe something else, but I can't get through it. It's the only HH novel I haven't been able to punch through sadly.

Dead Blue Clown wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:
2 got crippled while almost half a company blood angels including their dreadnought and scout support got completely wasted.
*laughs*

Oh, I get it. You're not lying - you're actually wrong. I think there are several key moments you's misunderstood the situation.

I was talking about 2 squads fighting. Y'know, the only action you get to see? You're making the rest up and assuming it's truth.

Pyriel- wrote:Not even the squad member that lost in melee vs that blood angel was allowed to die of since tataaa, soul hunter and his final fantasy magical sword of utter victory just had to show up and massacre all the BAs like there was no tomorrow...oh sorry, I forgot, they "barely won having lost an entire two marines against what was it again 40-50?.

Nope. Again, that's you misunderstanding the situation completely, despite it explained to you clearly. You have no idea what happened in the entire fight, because you only saw one squad of Night Lords (with ambushing advantage) fight one squad of Blood Angels. And even then, the Night Lords barely won, and took grievous damage. That's all you know, because that's all that's in the novel. The rest, you're making up. The novel ended before the full damage/losses were even shown. We saw one squad with a dreadnought fight one squad with a dreadnought. That's all. And, honestly, if you think First Claw came out of that smiling, I suggest you actually read the book this time.

With home court advantage and attacking from an ambush, with psychological advantage, too - against equal numbers - one of them died (in that fight where you claim no one died), 2 were practically crippled, and the dreadnought was destroyed. If you find that unrealistic, then rock on. But, simply put, it's not. The rest of the fighting going on aboard the strike cruiser was never shown, because the book ended before that part. But there were a lot of Night Lords on board, y'know. It wasn't 5 guys against 40. We saw one of the fights, out of many.

Pyriel- wrote:If you feel so annoyed then ask why I feel so rather then go sandbox on me acting like you cannot take any form of critique what so ever.

It's a myth that writers can't take criticism. The only issue is when the criticism, y'know, makes no sense, or is basically just nonsense. Then it's not actually criticism, it's just useless noise.

Your deal here is simple. You're assuming a lot of stuff happened, despite the fact it didn't. That's why there's no way to argue with you. The sky's blue, but you're raving that it's yellow.

And incidentally, the 2 stories in Fear the Alien that you refer to? The reason me and Nick didn't have our main characters meet was because 5 Night Lords would have no chance against an Imperial Astartes Terminator squad. So we avoided that happening.

Here's the issue, and why what you're saying basically makes no sense:

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets titan = win!

Nope. A Land Raider, a Thunderhawk, and a squad of Space Marines that have melta bombs, manage to topple a Warhound Titan over. Bit of a difference from what you're saying, isn't it? Have you ever played Apocalypse? Do you know much about how powerful (and conversely, vulnerable) a little Warhound is in the lore? Or are you just clinging to that silly nonsense about one invincible squad?

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets black legion = win!

Uh, when? When Abaddon shoots Talos, and Talos goes down like a punk without getting to even fire a single shot? When he runs away after recovering, instead of trying to fight? When he doesn't encounter a single Black Legion warrior, and kills a few humans, then flees? Is that the "win" you're lying about?

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets lack of materiel for hi super ship = vision = instant win!

You mean the short story where they're indulging in piracy? They're pirates, man. It's how they spend most of their lives: trying to get new gear for the ship. Also, it's a series about a prophet. You can't criticise him for having visions that benefit him. That's his freaking job, and in Soul Hunter, it still shows he's bad at that, getting stuff wrong the whole way through.

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets the Salamanders = win!

That never happens, though. Talos never meets the Salamanders. 20 Raptors meet a few Salamander terminators, and not only do 10 of the Raptors die after managing to kill only one single Terminator, but they can't kill the other Terminators at all, so they lure genestealers to that part of the ship and seal them in with the Terminators instead. And even then, they only get a few of them. The Night Lords categorically lost that fight. That was the whole point. So, again, you're talking nonsense.

Pyriel- wrote:Soul hunter meets the blood angels = epic win!

Already explained. You misunderstood the situation completely.

Pyriel- wrote:Soul Hunter meets internal strife on ship = Win!

What does this even mean? It's vague and, forgive me for saying, but it's likely as valid as the other stuff you've insisted happened, when none of it did.


EDIT: I started this sort of angry, but now I get it. If I'd thought all that stuff had happened, I'd think Talos and co. were overpowered goons, too. I hope that explanation cleared a lot of it up.

Quoted for truth! I dont know what the other guy is talking about but i've read Soul Hunter twice now and every battle they go into and barely come out of is not what i'd call "one sided" in the slightest. I find it odd that anyone can come to those conclusions about the fights at all, every single one of them made me cringe and think "wow that was a close one". No author has made me more afraid for the characters lives, the characters that you know....I have warmed up to throughout the book (besides Uzas). Which I'm sure can be a hard task considering they are traitor Astartes....I mean I like the word bearers books just fine but I dont really like any of those characters for the sake that they are kill my own mom evil. But from the grim-dark beginning to the epic end I came to realize that Talos and his band arent the generic black and white kind of "Evil", a concept I was sold on when i came to the hilarious convorsation the squad had with Septimus towards the end....But i'm rambling, you all get my point.

On a not quite side note but not really relavent to the paragraph above...ADB you are a great Author and I hang on every word in your books/short stories/narratives. Keep up the good work, Soul hunter might be my favorite 40k book out there, and I have many....many of them.

That's funny, as I actually loved the Word Bearer books. It was the fist time in a LONG time of reading Black Library books that I actually really liked the bad guys.

To each their own, I guess.

By the way, thank you D.B.C. for posting on the forums. It not only sounds like you are a good author, but that you know your 40K Fluff and tabletop stuff!!!

It's not that I didnt really like the Word bearers books, I do. I just connect better with Talos and first claw, I actually feel for them. While with the word bearers I have like how bad they are while silently wishing the good guys would win and not just fizzle and die, but it's a word bearer book heh To each their own indeed.

It depends on presentation I guess. During Dead Sky, Black Sun I found myself really enjoying the parts with Honsou more than the parts with Uriel, who was playing the loyalist card a bit too much. I've been told that Blood Pact somewhat works in the same way with the enemy operatives.

Or how about this classic WHFB novel: Necromancer. The guy is as evil as they come at the end, but still, I felt for him and his plight.

Oh, I get it. You're not lying - you're actually wrong. I think there are several key moments you's misunderstood the situation.

I was talking about 2 squads fighting. Y'know, the only action you get to see? You're making the rest up and assuming it's truth.

Nah, its just the way you write, having epic wins for the favorite team and then explaining the rest away with assumptions (the rest got it much better I promise I promise, to bad it wasnt shown. Had it then the whole feel of invincible night lords would not have manifested itself Sorry that doesnt cut it.

Nothing is said except for any blood angel getting instantly massacred while not inflicting anything else even remotely close to hurt back. (well I am wrong, the BAs managed to kill an old navigator of which there is a spare so that isnt really any victory and a defenseless child).

I read what I read, I dont assume illogical things (if 5 BAs meet 5 NLs and are all killed with no casulties being inflicted back then I pretty damn assume the worst for the rest as well, its not me, its your writing).

With home court advantage and attacking from an ambush, with psychological advantage, too - against equal numbers - one of them died (in that fight where you claim no one died), 2 were practically .crippled, and the dreadnought was destroyed. If you find that unrealistic, then rock on.

The night lords and Talos seemed not to have the slightest problem with any home court advantages what so ever when assaulting in small numbers that big Imperial battleship. As I recall they pretty much waded right through the so called "home court" ships (with a crew in the hundred of thousands) defenses with the help of a verbal shout.
To bad home court advantage only applies to the bad guys.

Then again is 2 teams of BAs face of 2 teams of NLs and get all annihilated for ONE casulty in return then the BA captain must surely be the greatest idiot in the whole chapter to be so illogical.
A k/d ration of 1 to 10 is laughable in my book of balace. Crippled marines use cybernetics and with all the "assumed" (you like me assuming things I remember) bounty from the mechanicus below I assume the crippling is no problem.

Even Reynolds, who miss the fluff mark by miles goes to great lenghts to instill a k/d balance in his battles between good and bad astartes.
If a full squad of loylaists is wiped out rest assured that within two pages a full squad of traitors is cut down, its like a mantra in his books.

You however go to great lengths to avoid said balance.

It's a myth that writers can't take criticism. The only issue is when the criticism, y'know, makes no sense, or is basically just nonsense. Then it's not actually criticism, it's just useless noise.

Your deal here is simple. You're assuming a lot of stuff happened, despite the fact it didn't. That's why there's no way to argue with you. The sky's blue, but you're raving that it's yellow.

Since you did show me only black you cannot find it logical for me to simply assume there is a lot of white going on in the background.
But I was wrong about you too, you arent wrong or lying, you simply cannot be wrong.

Regarding criticism I have the distinct feeling you cannot take any of it.
I pointed out and still point flaws in your argumentations like home court advances being used as eating a cake and still having it, no major flaws based on infighting while the opposite applies to loyalists, the laughable notion of applying tabletop stats to a novel (damn but you had me crying of all the laughter there) and characters of note completely devoid of any feel of danger to them what so ever (unkillable) but arguing with you is like arguing with mist, everything is excused away with nonsense, wrong, lies etc etc.
If you are going for the Ad nauseam angle then try something else.

Nope. A Land Raider, a Thunderhawk, and a squad of Space Marines that have melta bombs, manage to topple a Warhound Titan over. Bit of a difference from what you're saying, isn't it? Have you ever played Apocalypse? Do you know much about how powerful (and conversely, vulnerable) a little Warhound is in the lore? Or are you just clinging to that silly nonsense about one invincible squad?

*wipes tears from eyes*
Might be news for you and you had me up for quite the laugh after this comment of yours, but TABLETOP IS NOT FLUFF.
Read it again and please implement it in future novels, tabletp statlines and rules are NOT the correct representation of the fluff.

If that is the case and you are retorting to apocalypse balancing rules excuses then please do explain how the night lords waded through legions of mechanicus infantry with relative ease?
I mean in apocalypse a marines statline and power levels are roughly onlt three times of a normal infantry human. You know armour 3+ vs 6+, S and T 4 vs S and T 3 and a S4 weapon vs a S3 weapon.
In all fairness 10 or so night lords fighting human soldiers would have been completely wiped out if tabletop excuses were to be used so no, your talk about me and nonsense is just that, pure nonsense. You cant eat the cake and still have it.

Uh, when? When Abaddon shoots Talos, and Talos goes down like a punk without getting to even fire a single shot? When he runs away after recovering, instead of trying to fight? When he doesn't encounter a single Black Legion warrior, and kills a few humans, then flees? Is that the "win" you're lying about?

Thought it would be a weee little harder to disengare from a chaos legion that has orders to kill your small force. Lying, I dont know about that Mr. Flawless but I certainly hear you repeat yourself alot.


As for other novel examples where instant victory, oh sorry, unkillable henchmen and invoulnerable main characters arent automatically assured lets take a look at Kymes Salamanders novels.

Equipment = no assurance of victory or survival.

Rank = no assurance of survival (some of my favorite seargent characters were offed like there is no tomorrow)

Support characters like Bakken = getting their asses kicked badly, always hovering aroud uncertain survival.

A character that hates the rest = the rest start dying by his hand contrary to nigth lords who pretty much hate/loathe each otehrs with no bad (kill) effect to show for.

Main characters like tsugan = almost killed, very flawed.

Dakir = flawed, not that kickass, gets ass kicked in the end.

Pyriel, who is actually based on me (my cognomen) as thanks for helping Kyme with aspects of his novels = gets his ass so kicked the question of his survivability is instilled as he is to face the same danger again soon.


All this accounts for greater suspense since noone is secure from death.
Its not as extreme as in Stephen Donaldsons works but the theme is there.


As for Talos going down to Abaddons attack well, not even you are audacious enough to pull a Talos is invincible when facing Abaddon, I grant you that, you might be on the way there but you are still not a Reynolds.

You mean the short story where they're indulging in piracy? They're pirates, man. It's how they spend most of their lives: trying to get new gear for the ship. Also, it's a series about a prophet. You can't criticise him for having visions that benefit him. That's his freaking job, and in Soul Hunter, it still shows he's bad at that, getting stuff wrong the whole way through.

Prates per definition cannot take on military might and are almost by default sooner or later cought and killed. That´s pirates for you and I bet they will never be cought and killed now will they? They dont board fully armed battleships, dont repel elite military boarding forces with SUCH ease, they run, hide, strike fast and carefully against dead weak targets, back down rather then risk facing losses instead of wading through loyalist astartes, not breaching full military battleship cordons with their little gunboats just to show of etc etc. You take and pick from the pirate theme as it fits you then discard the unpleasant rest it seems.
How about trying some realism the next time if you now want to uphold the pirate theme?

On the prophet theme it really becomes fun.
Last time I heard prophets were badly wrong on many occasions. If you talk about warp prophets, you know warp, the thing that never tells you the truth, I´m surprised Talos always manages an epic win from his visions.
Oh right, there was this one that was wrong showing a marine kill another marine but *surprise* that was never a drawback anyway.
A true warp prophet would see a victory or two from his visions then the third tie he would loose half his squad for no gain at all because a false prophecy showd him a wrong thing.
Again, pick and choose only what benefits and discard the rest or stand up for what you are doing and say it out loud, "I want to eat the cake and still have it".

The night lords suffer the same flaws like most bad guy astartes in novels about bad guy astartes with their authors making the same mistake over and over again. Their inherent hatred for each others never show for anything resembling a weakness.

Example:
Kymes marines suffer in combat from human flaws like hatred for each others (traitor), their loyalty to each others pose a problem when moral dilemmas are brought forth (Reynolds, and a big hurra to that part of his novels) etc.
Whereas traitor astartes are pictured as hating each others loathing one another etc etc with half of them wanting to put a knife in the back in the other half but this NEVER affects them in battle (storm of iron, soul hunter, word bearer novels etc).
How funny is that when love and loyalty to your fellow warriors are shown to pose more in the way of problems and losses then hate and mistrust.
Goes to show the difference in quality of writers who implement those things to great lengths.
Ergo: you have a lot to learn from the likes of Kyme but then again as you are flawless and I am only wrong and lying I can only dream of such things being implemented to greater extend then assumptions.
They might still be there but never affecting on any substantial scale like they should and this IS meant in the fluff as a big part of the flaw of chaos warriors.

That never happens, though. Talos never meets the Salamanders. 20 Raptors meet a few Salamander terminators, and not only do 10 of the Raptors die after managing to kill only one single Terminator, but they can't kill the other Terminators at all, so they lure genestealers to that part of the ship and seal them in with the Terminators instead. And even then, they only get a few of them. The Night Lords categorically lost that fight. That was the whole point. So, again, you're talking nonsense.

Now you are the one lying.
It is clearly stated in the end of that story what a big victory the night lords won gaining something much greater (rare armours) then the loss of some of the raptors and that to was explained away by "it only makes us stronger". Not really the sad loss there and my point still stands, even when the favored night lords "loose" they win big!
Lie that one away if you can.

Soul hunter meets the blood angels = epic win!
Already explained. You misunderstood the situation completely.

Yes I already said that, I read black and was supposed to assume white. that is unless I feel like 10 against 1 kills are balanced terms.

-What does this even mean? It's vague and, forgive me for saying, but it's likely as valid as the other stuff you've insisted happened, when none of it did.

You really cant take any critique.
The internal strife was the captain hating Talos, even sending a terminator to kill him.
What luck he had some of his invincible squaddies with him, had it been a salamanders terminator they would surely have perished *not*.
But all this didnt happen, I am clearly wrong here if not outright lying, is that right Mr perfect?

Quoted for truth!

yeahyeah, I am the bad guy daring to say critique about the flawless author everybody just loves unquestionally.
Then again, I dont really care if I go against the grain, someone has to on occasion.
To me its a measure of another persons self esteem if he shuts his eyes up and excuses everything that does not agree with his opinions.

That's funny, as I actually loved the Word Bearer books. It was the fist time in a LONG time of reading Black Library books that I actually really liked the bad guys.

To each their own, I guess.

-By the way, thank you D.B.C. for posting on the forums. It not only sounds like you are a good author, but that you know your 40K Fluff and tabletop stuff!!!

To bad the author uses tabletop "stuff" in his novels LOL
Last time I read a story with tabletop statline marines it didnt turn out any good.

Abut the word bearer novels:
Maybe you like them because you missed the fluff being massacred by Reynolds, well and the three invincible main characters you never, ever feel afraid of risking loosing but apart from that the action and story I must admit is pretty damn hot.
The word bearers marines and their armours are litterarly growing on trees. The man killed of more word bearers then the entire chapters of space wolves, ultramarines and all of the black templars combined. (based on the number of hosts and the size of the first ones) and enough battle ships to equip 3 first founding chapters (based on battlefleet gothic and index astartes).
Over 200 word bearers of which were killed just like that because they were of another opinion then their leader. Not using them in suecide battle or anything, just offing them because you know, the word bearers back home are 4 times as plentiful as the "little" assault force being sent and the balck legion is hinted to be something like 8 times the size of that.

Its like Swallow killing of entire chapters of blood angels but on steroids, redoing the fluff like there is no tomorrow and adding untouchable characters to that.
I bet dear old ADB will step in here calling me a liar again but I dont expect anything else from Mr Flawless these days.

I mean the favoritism of work bearer power levels is so ridiculous that a loyalist who is some 1000-1300 years old (Reynolds apparently missed the fluff on Dante) and has been practicing sword fighting like mad is treated like a naked baby by one of the word bearer leaders. I´m glad Dante, the chapter master of the BAs didnt face that word bearers commander, he wouldnt stand 5 seconds against him.

I can understand the attraction for these kind of novels and dont think bad of people who like them, far from. They are just not for me since I need more depth and correct fluff if I am to spend hours reading something and I absolutely cannot stand tabletop balance and rules being used as excuses for so called novel "fluff".

It's not that I didnt really like the Word bearers books, I do. I just connect better with Talos and first claw, I actually feel for them. While with the word bearers I have like how bad they are while silently wishing the good guys would win and not just fizzle and die, but it's a word bearer book heh To each their own indeed.

True, each one their own and I must admit that I too feel for the night lords more then the word bearers but this is due to the fact there actually IS more struggle for the night lords then the word bearers.
My problem is though as stated before, the power level of talos and his squad is to much, I feel for them but barely and it is getting overshadowed withlack of suspense from the belief that nothing can actually happen to them as in one or more get killed or pushed over an abyss by someone else in their squad that dont like him.

The night lord story becomes more of a suspense, based on what ingenious problem will the author have them face of with and in what clever way will they solve it!
Not, WILL, any of them die while solving the problem since the author has conditioned my mind to "be certain" that Talos and his stolen final fantasy sword of absolutely assured victory nor his squad mates can ever die!
That part is utterly gone and this is what dear liar-ranting ADB cannot accept from me.

Now if the next soul hunter novel sees half his squad die and himself loose a leg or so and not while fighting the emperor himself AND winning as usual then I will be the first to crawl back here and in public apologize but then again I will do it gladly since I know that the Talos novels of the future will be 100% worth reading with higher levels of suspense being added to them. Damn, I´d probably but all three+ of them anew just to have mint copied in my collection.

It amazes me though that some people are so afraid of critique they turn to sandbox tactics to excuse it away.
If I would treat critique for my own work the same way, no matter if I like or dislike the persons bringing me said critique, I would never be better at what I do.
I PMed the author and was kind of hoping for some sort of reasonable discussion, be it in private or not, about the night lord novel but apparently I am wrong, an outright liar, am assumed to be a mind reader and am making all stuff up out of thin air. Nothing I say is the slightest anchored in reality because everything I say is made up nonsense used simply to hurt the author in spite.
If the author cannot accept that his writing can be seen in anything other then his own particular view then I simply lack not only words but all semblance of respect for said person.

@ Pyriel. Has this guy never read an Astartes novel before?

They are all super human & as for compairing the NL attack on an imperial ship with the BA attack on the NL you are clearly clutching at straws to justify a tenuous point of view.

The NL walked through the Imperial ship because it was full of average joe humans.

The BA squad was caught by supprise by a force in their own backyard & were only just beaten back.

The NL were hammered & had their dread not turned up they would've snuffed it.

You also dont get to hear what happens on the rest of the ship. Honestly its sound like chaos crew butchered left right & centre (just as in the NL attack on the imperial ship)

& the whole titan thing was not beyond the realm of possibility either. AD-B gave you a 'table top' explaination to show this, he wasn't saying that tabletop is exactly comparable to fluff. you're just being obtuse & you know it.

@Pyriel. So much writing so little sense and so much of it just plain wrong.

I am not the greatest fan of A-B's writing style, though I will admit I have enjoy the latest HH book and it was worth the purchase. I think you ought to read one of his books because it sure doesn't look like you have because you are talking pure bollocks.

As a side note, and I don't blame A-B for this as all HH writers do this but I am sick to death of the almost teenage angst worship of the primarchs by SM's - I mean come on, feel like the cannot talk, an almost need to spontaneously genufluct if a primarch merely says "good morning".

Pyriel, listen, you miss pretty much everything. You go off half-cocked, assuming X, Y and Z, and I hesitate to say it, but you're bordering on embarrassing yourself now. You've lied, you've invented stuff, you've missed more points than I can even count, whether they were nuanced and subtle, or clearly explained to you.

Here's the perfect example:

I say:

Me wrote:"Nope. A Land Raider, a Thunderhawk, and a squad of Space Marines that have melta bombs, manage to topple a Warhound Titan over. Bit of a difference from what you're saying, isn't it? Have you ever played Apocalypse? Do you know much about how powerful (and conversely, vulnerable) a little Warhound is in the lore? Or are you just clinging to that silly nonsense about one invincible squad?"

You reply with:

Pyriel wrote:"*wipes tears from eyes*
Might be news for you and you had me up for quite the laugh after this comment of yours, but TABLETOP IS NOT FLUFF.
Read it again and please implement it in future novels, tabletp statlines and rules are NOT the correct representation of the fluff."

Do you actually read anything except what you write? Read the sentence in bold. Jesus, it's like trying to teach algebra to a rock, here. I replied citing the lore and the rules, and of them both back me up. You rave on and on, missing the point, choosing half the answer, and accusing me of more nonsense. You're absolutely right. Tabletop statlines aren't the fluff. Which is why I said both the lore and the statlines back me up. Fluff and rules. I made the point clearly, yet you turned it into a weird, raving weapon about me using tabletop stats as the basis for my work.

And here's another:

Pyriel wrote:I read what I read, I dont assume illogical things (if 5 BAs meet 5 NLs and are all killed with no casulties being inflicted back then I pretty damn assume the worst for the rest as well, its not me, its your writing).

Despite it mentioned 5 times in this thread, and in the novel itself, that there were casualties in that fight? Even when you finally get to the point, you're still wrong about it. How am I supposed to take you seriously? Did you just read a synopsis of the novel and guess at what was on the pages?

Come on, man. Surely, somewhere in your intense focus, you have to see that you're making zero sense. The reason I don't need to defend myself isn't because I can't take criticism, it's because what you're saying is weird silliness that bears no resemblance to reality.

Pyriel wrote:The internal strife was the captain hating Talos, even sending a terminator to kill him. What luck he had some of his invincible squaddies with him, had it been a salamanders terminator they would surely have perished *not*.

Another classic example of why you are impossible to debate with. You're inventing things. The Terminator wasn't sent to kill Talos, and Talos wasn't even there in that scene. Do you see? Do you see how nothing you're saying makes any sense? How can you call this critique? It's nonsense and lies. How can I respond by nodding sagely when you rant and rave about stuff that never happened, for reasons you completely misunderstand?

Pyriel wrote:You really cant take any critique.

As I said, critique is awesome. You're raving and making no sense. Most of what you're saying isn't an opinion, it's invented nonsense.

I genuinely don't understand how all of these explanations from me and others are going over your head, but either way, I'm done with this weird war over it. You're entitled to your own opinion, guy. Not your own facts. Stop making stuff up.

Modquisiiton on. This htread has been reported and is getting flamy. Lets cease and desist lest this thread get closed and persons disciplined as warranted.

Well, regardless of Pyriel beating down AD-B and talking up Nick Kyme, I burnt through Soul Hunter in a few hours.
I quit trying to read Salamander after about 30 pages.
That right there says enough about the respective authors for me.

Holding too strong to preconceptions about a universe can hurt your enjoyment of books.
I read to enjoy the characters and the situations.
If the specifics are fudged a bit to get the characters from point a to point b, oh well.
As long as the journey was fun, who cares about the rest.

Just in case no one's noticed, the next Space Marine Battles novel after the Fall of Damnos is.....

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/coming-soon/Battle-of-the-fang.html

The Battle of the Fang. (i check back a few pages and this doesn't seen to have been posted.)

Cool. Never heard of the author though. Hope he's good.

They touched on that battle in a couple of the Ragnar novels, didn't they?

I have high hopes for the Fang, seeing as the author has done some very entertaining Fantasy novels so far, including the Sword of Justice / Vengeance series.

I think it will be very good, the actual author posted in this thread a "few" pages back, prior to GD UK. I'm looking forward to some more details about The Fang especially.

Meanwhile... Trollslayer download.

reds8n wrote: I think it will be very good, the actual author posted in this thread a "few" pages back, prior to GD UK. I'm looking forward to some more details about The Fang especially.

Meanwhile... Trollslayer download.

Reds8n. Where on earth do you work? BL marketing? I don't mind, I love the up to date info all in one place. But damn... you have the goods early. And are consistent, unlike a lot of posters who occasionally come up with some new news- always in early, with the correct info as far as news and rumors go.

..Mr. legoburner beats me with wet towels whilst I kneel on broomsticks if I don't.

Whilst all the other MODs parade around in a circle, masked, chanting.

But then we all go for Tacos and margaritas afterwards so, there's an upside too.

You're welcome !

1: They are all super human & as for compairing the NL attack on an imperial ship with the BA attack on the NL you are clearly clutching at straws to justify a tenuous point of view.

2: The NL walked through the Imperial ship because it was full of average joe humans.

3: The BA squad was caught by supprise by a force in their own backyard & were only just beaten back.

4: The NL were hammered & had their dread not turned up they would've snuffed it.

5: You also dont get to hear what happens on the rest of the ship. Honestly its sound like chaos crew butchered left right & centre (just as in the NL attack on the imperial ship)

Lets answer this simple quote here that in a very good way sums up everything that is being thrown at me.
I dont need to answer ADBs lies since he cant take to criticism. This is not about petty points nor is my example wrong. This is about pointing out a mayor level of suspense missing and how a novel can become better.

My point is about what makes for better suspense in a novel.
A lot of things do but one of the best (Donaldson tought me that) is the suspense of never knowing if the main and side characters will live or not.

Let us take the first example in the soul hunter novel, the one where I am so wrong, lie etc etc and the one everyone has ganged up on me about.

8 pods of BAs are launched at the poorly defended NL ship.
2 are killed while inbound, that is 10-20 dead BAs right there.
Let me assume they are holding 10 marines each as per GWs oficcial drop pod rules, that is a logical assumption.

The first engagement is made to "sound" oh so even by ADB but is in fact a glorious showcase of how invincible soul hunter and his squad is. All 5 BAs die slaughtered like pigs for no hurt in return.
Talos is SO tough he only needs to headbutt 150 old BA veteran seargents to death. Sound like one of Reynolds main characters now and then.

The second engagement sees a BA squad and a BA dread face of with a NL squad.
All BAs are killed for one night lord in return. There are by now also under 30 BAs left alive.
Nowhere and I repeat, nowhere are there any night lords crippled, only three are wounded.
The so called crippled (heavily wounded) are later on running around killing genesteelers like nothing.
And yet I am the one lying and not understanding, lol

Later on we also get to know another blood angel dies killing the astropath.

Thus what IS written black on white, contrary to ADBs desperate attempts to excuse away by calling me wrong and a liar, is that 10-20 BAs die in the initial engagement for no gain at all and later on 10-15 BAs die for only ONE night lord in return while 3 are wounded to some extent.
Here you have it, hands down, black on white and still I am wrong and am assumed not to even answer back a tide of insults. Am I the one flaming?

By now I got fed up with the Talos-invincible attitude and thus posted a complaint letting know how other authors add more suspense in their novels, simply by not making the main and side characters near unkillable but allowing for a suspense that is based on never knowing what will happen to them.
This is what is sorely lacking in ADBs soul hunter novel and this is what makes Helsreach, so much better suspense wise.
Yes if you are a die hard NL or chaos fan that only want to read about easy slaughter of loyalist then the novel is for you.

I am further on pissed that the author (and I dont belive for a second that this is him behind that username) calls me a liar when I point out the very things he wrote black on white and is excusing it away by forcing me to assume there are aother things going on in the backgund.
This is not only childlish and pathetic but does not belong to a grown up man, an author at that. Not being a mind reader is not an excuse ADB.
You write something and I take my feel of the novel based on that, not on wild guesses of that you might be thinking about "A" while writing "B"!

So to answer your points:
1: Pirates, according to ADB, the NL are pirate themed, do not assault military ships of the line but ok, I grant you there should be enough levvy for odd things in a novel.
2: Point taken.
3: Just beaten back is a blatant lie. Reread that part again. Slaughtered like babies is a better description.
4: Hammered? They lost one guy with 3 wounded vs a full squad of dead BAs and a dead BA dread is not what I call hammered. Gheesh, get real.
5: No I dont get that, I only get the insane favoritism part written black on white. I am not bothered to alter the entire stories/encounters feeling by attempting to mind read the author. The author is the one with the duty to show what he wants and needs to convey HIS points to the reader.

-@Pyriel. So much writing so little sense and so much of it just plain wrong.

Read above, what is wrong?
The author writes with heavy favoritism and is ditching a big part of suspense and I call him on this. Simple as that.

Modquisiiton on. This htread has been reported and is getting flamy. Lets cease and desist lest this thread get closed and persons disciplined as warranted.

Interesting, I should be the one reporting it for all the words I have been called.
Cease and desist with what, do we stop writing about this subject completely or simply stop with the insults, I´m not the one insulting other people here.

I´ll ask the author this in aPM instead if you feel like the thread is being clogged down. Up to him to reply with all the insults he wishes IN THERE!!!!

Pyriel-...

I think it might be time to let it go now...

Pyriel- wrote:

Read above, what is wrong?
The author writes with heavy favoritism and is ditching a big part of suspense and I call him on this. Simple as that.

What is wrong is people disagree with you, even those of us who aren't the greatest of fans of his work. You subsequent justifications are wrong, made up and look like your reading comprehension is poor.

Interesting, I should be the one reporting it for all the words I have been called.
Cease and desist with what, do we stop writing about this subject completely or simply stop with the insults, I´m not the one insulting other people here.

I´ll ask the author this in aPM instead if you feel like the thread is being clogged down. Up to him to reply with all the insults he wishes IN THERE!!!!

As per usual here, MODing here is wrong. If you reported it you should have been told to make your posts better. Telling someone they are lying, making stuff up or talking bollocks isn't a flame bait or an insult if, as in the case here, it is true and when told politely the lies and stretching of logic get worse.