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Post by: legoburner
I have returned from Gamesfest 04 and attended both of the black library panels there and have a few things of note to share that I have not seen mentioned here before. They had a guy on hand to prevent them leaking spoilers so not too much in the way of juicy info I'm afraid.
Sandy Mitchell is working on a new Commissar Cain novel which is set in a space hulk and will be the first book in another set of 3 hopefully. (Set in a space hulk so he could buy a copy of Space Hulk and claim it back against tax he claims  )
James Swallow is writing the next HH book after Thousand Sons/Prospero Burns and it is titled Nemesis and will be about assassins, with very little space marines stuff, in which
On the question of how many books there would be, James Swallow said there would be 666 books, then Graham McNeil said there would be around a million. He then joked it would be blogged and on warseer so I thought I'd post this imaginary rumour here on dakka first so we can pip warseer and bols to the post on that one... nyah nyah
It was hinted that a massive ultramarines arc is planned for the HH series written by multiple authors. I think they hinted at 3 books but my memory got fuzzy on the drive home through endless traffic jams.
Thousand sons and Prospero Burns are written to be extremely integrated and many elements of the books go back and forth between the two, linking them extremely closely. From Graham's description it sounds like each one will need to be read twice to get the most out of them which sounds good value considering we have to wait for so long for them!
The Horus Heresy panel also hinted at a MASSIVE twist that will "blow everyone's minds". However they could not comment on it further but were visibly brimming with excitement, stating loads of ideas have been going around, and said it will turn the whole 40k universe around a bit. Begin Internet conjecture....
Finally, when asked their personal opinion if GW will ever release any Warhammer 30k stuff, the general opinion was no as the design studio is very focused on 40k, lotr and WHFB. It was suggested that it would not be too hard for them to do such a thing, but that is was not very likely and even a simple apocalypse add on for it would probably be asking too much (again all this was just opinion as Black Library is a separate entity).
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Post by: porkuslime
legoburner wrote:
The Horus Heresy panel also hinted at a MASSIVE twist that will "blow everyone's minds". However they could not comment on it further but were visibly brimming with excitement, stating loads of ideas have been going around, and said it will turn the whole 40k universe around a bit. Begin Internet conjecture....
I suspect.. (and don't quote me or anything)... Horus MAY totally rebel and decide to rule the galaxy, and actually ASSAULT Terra.. maybe even get to fight mano-a-mano with his clone father..
THAT would be a major blow to the Emperor and the Space Legions..
(Oh, and Legoburner... thanks for the info!)
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Post by: legoburner
Ah I also forgot to mention, I asked if they had any organised method of tracking the various details of novels like timelines, products, etc. They all laughed and said no, but there is a general style guide. Just an interesting tidbit as I would have presumed they might have a wiki or something like that, but I guess it all comes down to the editors.
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Post by: Alpharius
A 3 book series about the Ultramarines in the Heresy?
The Ultramarines who really didn't do much during the Heresy?
Other than get outmaneuvered so that they couldn't do much in the Heresy?
Really, not everyone wants to be an Ultramarine Tactical Squad member, despite what the latest Space Marine Codex would have us believe!
NEMESIS? An assassins? And a major Primarch, er, character dies? Anyway, written by Swallow? Not sure, as his non-Heresy stuff was, unimpressive, but his Heresy novel was actually quite good...
legoburner wrote:Ah I also forgot to mention, I asked if they had any organised method of tracking the various details of novels like timelines, products, etc. They all laughed and said no, but there is a general style guide. Just an interesting tidbit as I would have presumed they might have a wiki or something like that, but I guess it all comes down to the editors.
Wait, they have editors?
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Post by: Vassakov
Alpharius wrote:
legoburner wrote:Ah I also forgot to mention, I asked if they had any organised method of tracking the various details of novels like timelines, products, etc. They all laughed and said no, but there is a general style guide. Just an interesting tidbit as I would have presumed they might have a wiki or something like that, but I guess it all comes down to the editors.
Wait, they have editors?
Yeah, what he said...
Also, the UM did do something in the HH. They sulked about on the Eastern Front, got slaughtered at Calth, were roadblocked by about 3 Alpha Legionnaires and then turned up in time to claim victory...
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Post by: Alpharius
Sounds about right...
And probably straight out of the 'secret chapters' of the Codex Astartes...
Er, though, more importantly - thanks for the info, Lego!
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Post by: Just Dave
I dunno, I didn't like Eisenstein but I liked the blood angels omnibus...
I won't mind some novels about the Ultramarines - although battle for the Abyss was awful - as what happened on Calth is barely detailed and Kor Phaeron sounds cool!
I'm quite optimistic about the Nemesis novel - if its like Dan Abnetts Custodes short story then it could be good - and I like to see things from a non marine perspective (ie. Legion Geno's)
But yeah, all sounds really good, I love the Horus Heresy stuff! Cheers Lego!
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Post by: Great Unclean One
I think all Robute Gulliman did was sit down and write a book as his marines got brutally slaughtered then looked very high and mighty when he claimed victory for a battle he hadn't even seen, this is the impression I get from conversation with friends and at GW, he was effectively a massive pile of blue powered armoured uselessness!
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Post by: Alpharius
Great Unclean One wrote:I think all Robute Gulliman did was sit down and write a book as his marines got brutally slaughtered then looked very high and mighty when he claimed victory for a battle he hadn't even seen, this is the impression I get from conversation with friends and at GW, he was effectively a massive pile of blue powered armoured uselessness!
As much as I like to make fun of Ultramarines (and I do!), you've go to give him some credit - Ultramar is pretty much the only place any one of us would like living in that Galaxy!
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Post by: Sinister Brain
Nice info, thanks for sharing!
My disappointment with some of the HH novels is they seem to 40K. Battle for the Boring Abyss was the worst.
I generally don't mind Swallows stuff. Though I haven't read the BA books (I'd rather drink drano)
Smurf 3 book arc? Meh. I'll buy it because I'm a 40K gerbil and can't resist. I hope Graham sets the trilogy up then. He at least makes Smurfs not make me want to light the book on fire.
There was another thread that mentioned this but if the Smurfs get 3 books then I wonder how many the Siege of Terra will get? Just to prove me wrong BL will probably have it all in one book but I can hope for more. Though I'll probably be in a wheelchair and have to have a nurse read it to me by the time it comes out.
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Post by: Boss 'eadbreaka
If 'Nemesis' is about assasins and a 'major character' dies, it will probably follow the assasination of Konrad Kruze, the Night Lords' primarch.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Hmm... This: legoburner wrote:I asked if they had any organised method of tracking the various details of novels like timelines, products, etc. ...
... followed by this: legoburner wrote:They all laughed and said no
... is just frightening. Not because of what it could do to Black Library books, but because I have a feeling that this is the way all of GW is run. Everything is done in a vacuum with only the most basic structure or framework to guide them.
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Post by: Sinister Brain
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Not because of what it could do to Black Library books, but because I have a feeling that this is the way all of GW is run. Everything is done in a vacuum with only the most basic structure or framework to guide them.
Sometimes, it sure does appear that way doesn't it? I honestly don't know how they keep things straight lore-wise without a huge bible and/or some sort of charting being done. But maybe the lore is so massive and convoluted (Hello Night lords!) it's better to just steam roll/retcon old stuff and be done with it.
There's a few people I know who hate the Horus heresy books because they are "too different" from "what actually happened" in <insert source here>.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Well I thought the whole point of the HH series was to codify what happened during that period. If they aren't even keeping any real structure as to how it should be done then... uhh... what's to stop them from contradicting themselves in the next Codex release, or even the next HH book?
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Post by: Tim the Biovore
How many HH books can there be?
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Post by: Boss 'eadbreaka
A lot, seeing as the whole damn mess lasted some hundred years and spanned thousands of lightyears.
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Post by: legoburner
H.B.M.C. wrote:Well I thought the whole point of the HH series was to codify what happened during that period. If they aren't even keeping any real structure as to how it should be done then... uhh... what's to stop them from contradicting themselves in the next Codex release, or even the next HH book?
My question to them was for general black library stuff. The HH stuff does seem to be a lot more organised with a general editor and all major authors attending frequent meetings where details are discussed. I'm not sure how librarians got into the dark angels when all psychic stuff was banned according to earlier novels, but other than that the HH novels have been fairly tightly woven.
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Post by: Thanatos_elNyx
Alpharius wrote:
A 3 book series about the Ultramarines in the Heresy?
The Ultramarines who really didn't do much during the Heresy?
I find it difficult to see how they could get 3 books out of a legion that did nearly nothing in the Heresy!
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Post by: BrookM
Actually, we don't know what the Ultras have done during the Heresy, other than fighting over Calth.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Besides, the Horus Heresy happened during the Great Crusade, so it's not as if the Ultramarines ran out of non-Imperial worlds to take, not to mention ones that had been taken that were falling to Chaos during this period.
They mightn't've been fighting on Terra, but to say they did 'nothing' shows ignorance of the time and the geography. Would those who believe this way claim Guilliman sat around with his 100,000 Marines doing nothing? And that the entire Ultima Segmentum/Eastern Fringe sat quiet during this period?
C'mon guys, that's like saying that because the Russians weren't involved in storming the beaches at Normandy, they did 'nothing' during WWII.
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Post by: Delephont
Oh...DON'T mention the war!!!!
I think the gripe is that while the Ultras may well have been doing their duty, so was every other Legion in that period, and while its commendable, its not really HH worthy writing about it.....people, want to know who was doing who in the throws of the Great Heresy!
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Post by: Cheese Elemental
Delephont wrote:Oh...DON'T mention the war!!!!
I think the gripe is that while the Ultras may well have been doing their duty, so was every other Legion in that period, and while its commendable, its not really HH worthy writing about it.....people, want to know who was doing who in the throws of the Great Heresy!
The series is about a goddamn civil war between Space Marines. What do you suggest gets written about it? How Joe Citizen went to the Pub of Grim Darkness with Bob Citizen?
For someone who whines so much about GW, you don't seem to know much about the fluff.
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Post by: Just Dave
Cheese Elemental, I think he meant World War 2...
H.B.M.C. wrote:Besides, the Horus Heresy happened during the Great Crusade, so it's not as if the Ultramarines ran out of non-Imperial worlds to take, not to mention ones that had been taken that were falling to Chaos during this period.
They mightn't've been fighting on Terra, but to say they did 'nothing' shows ignorance of the time and the geography. Would those who believe this way claim Guilliman sat around with his 100,000 Marines doing nothing? And that the entire Ultima Segmentum/Eastern Fringe sat quiet during this period?
C'mon guys, that's like saying that because the Russians weren't involved in storming the beaches at Normandy, they did 'nothing' during WWII.
QFT!
That could be the good think about the ultramarines books, its clear we don't know what the ultramarines did so a few books about it would be good...
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Post by: Cheese Elemental
Just Dave wrote:Cheese Elemental, I think he meant World War 2...
No, as I read it, he's complaining about how the Horus Heresy novels are focused on the Horus Heresy and not normal people.
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Post by: Just Dave
Well if that is the case then thats a helluva lousy argument! 
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
The Horus Heresy panel also hinted at a MASSIVE twist that will "blow everyone's minds".
I heard that Horus might turn on the...
Darn, someone beat me to it.
Isn't this kind of like promising major twists in a Star Wars Prequel?
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Post by: Grimstonefire
Anything for warhammer mentioned?
Admittedly I don't follow the HH series, but what would be a major twist would be to do a prequel book to set the scene for what followed (if they haven't already done this). I.e. looking at the creation of the space marines and how they dispersed.
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Post by: reds8n
Boss 'eadbreaka wrote:If 'Nemesis' is about assasins and a 'major character' dies, it will probably follow the assasination of Konrad Kruze, the Night Lords' primarch.
Except that is all post Heresy of course.
We had some discussion* about this here previously.
*This is a lie.
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Post by: Delephont
Cheese Elemental wrote:Just Dave wrote:Cheese Elemental, I think he meant World War 2...
No, as I read it, he's complaining about how the Horus Heresy novels are focused on the Horus Heresy and not normal people.
If you don't understand what I've written, then why not be civilised and simply ask?
My first line was a tongue in cheek response to H.B.M.C where his post mentions WWII.....perhpas I should have quoted him, but considering my post is directly below his, I didn't think it was worth while......you live and learn.
My following statements, attempt to justify, what I belive the major gripe with dedicating books to the Ultramarines is based on. That being, that while the Ultramarines were surely active and doing their part for the Great Crusade, they actually played little part in the actual Horus Heresy.....at least as far as GW has comitted to canon so far.......again, this was a direct response to H.B.M. Cs post.
Now, I could flame you, and call you all sorts of stupid internet hero names......however, can I suggest, in future, you sould just politely request clarification before hurling insults at people....its makes the whole forum experience so much nicer.
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Post by: avantgarde
The twist is at the very end when the Emperor is about to strike down Horus, Horus wakes up and it was all a dream and the events that transpired are false. Then BL will release the Horus Heresy: 2nd Edition which has subtle changes to the storyline and you have to buy the whole series if you want to really know what happened. Also there's a twist at the end of 2nd Ed.
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Post by: Samus666
I'm actually really curious about the twist. It would have to be some small but incredibly significant detail that's never been mentioned before, maybe something that will change our perspective of what really was going on with the heresy. Maybe some hitherto unknown secret about the Emperor?
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Post by: Quintinus
Can this crappy series just die already? It's not like it's already ruined the excitement and mystery of the whole Heresy... 
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Post by: Thanatos_elNyx
H.B.M.C. wrote:Besides, the Horus Heresy happened during the Great Crusade, so it's not as if the Ultramarines ran out of non-Imperial worlds to take, not to mention ones that had been taken that were falling to Chaos during this period.
They mightn't've been fighting on Terra, but to say they did 'nothing' shows ignorance of the time and the geography. Would those who believe this way claim Guilliman sat around with his 100,000 Marines doing nothing? And that the entire Ultima Segmentum/Eastern Fringe sat quiet during this period?
C'mon guys, that's like saying that because the Russians weren't involved in storming the beaches at Normandy, they did 'nothing' during WWII.
True but you aren't going to have much on the Russians in a movie about D-Day are you? (So tempted to say that most hollywood movies don't even mention the British, Canadians, etc... but I won't!)
The story arc is about the Horus Heresy, even if the Ultramarines were fighting off the entire Eastern fringe it has nothing to do with the heresy.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
I know what the twist is, but I'd rather not ruin it for everyone. I heard it in an author interview a bit back. It is a pretty significant twist for basically all of the background fluff.
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Post by: BrookM
Remember that the Ultras chased the Alpha Legion and killed their Primarch.
Hmm, maybe that's the big effing twist right there.
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Post by: Da Boss
I can't say I'm excited. Except for Horus Rising, the quality of writing in the series has been so inconsistent I can't bear to read any more. I thought they were really going somewhere interesting with that first book, and then it was all just bleh.
I heard a lot of people rating Flight of the Eisenstein highly for example, so I was really excited to pick it up and read it, and it was bloody terrible. The baddies were like Panto villains with bugger all motivation. Seriously. That one dude that turns into a daemon prince or whatever was only lacking a twiddly fecking moustache.
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Post by: Delephont
@ Da Boss
I like that comment. However, isn't that so true of most of the "bad" guys in WH40K, they do it cause they can, they want to, or.....a god tells them to do it.....
About the twist though....I think we might have already seen hints of it in pervious texts like in Tales of Heresy, The Last Church, and in Mechanicum.....where by the Emperor isn't quite all light and fluffy as we like to think!
I think the twist will definately be about the Emperor, and maybe his "hidden works"....now that would be interesting, maybe!
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Post by: Cheese Elemental
I think it's perfectly reasonable to have three books dedicated to the Ultramarines. They haven't had much coverage in the HH compared to, say, Dark Angels. They sure as hell weren't sitting around doing nothing on the other side of the galaxy.
I don't think Roboute Guilliman killed Alpharius until after the Heresy though.
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Post by: legoburner
ShumaGorath wrote:I know what the twist is, but I'd rather not ruin it for everyone. I heard it in an author interview a bit back. It is a pretty significant twist for basically all of the background fluff.
The one that was mentioned was apparently only a couple of weeks old if I got the gist of it correctly. Does that match up?
In addition, Graham McNeil was unsurprisingly demanding to write the Calth battle / book.
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Post by: Lord Demon
Maybe the twist will be the emperor not beeing the emperor. And that they killed the real emperor already. Horus found this out and did not want a fake one leading humanity. The fake emperor did not want this and declared horus and friends heretics. The story unfolds the same only the the most important guy is not who we think he is.
And as soon as he takes a seat on his golden throne he gets his steady diet of a 1000 psykers a day.
I could go into more detail but i am lazy and dont want to
Grtz
L.D.
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Post by: BrookM
Hopefully a more in depth recollection of the webway portal beneath the Palace and the battle that raged there because some one-eyed donkey-cave had to use powerful magic to talk to his daddy and accidentally breach the seals put there.
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Post by: loki old fart
Horus turns on the emperor, because he's under the control of adeptus mechanicus. who as we know worship the machine spirit/c'tan. And those thousand pskers are to feed the c'tan and wake him.
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Post by: JonnyDelta
HA! Good one Brook! Almost shot energy drink out my nose.
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Post by: Alpharius
BrookM wrote:Remember that the Ultras chased the Alpha Legion and killed their Primarch.
Hmm, maybe that's the big effing twist right there.
If you know that much (from the AL Index Astartes) then you know that there's a very, very real possibility that that in fact did not happen...
Anyway, Shuma - Spoiler Text the twist, and let it fly!
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Post by: Just Dave
hahaha! Alpharius you impatient bugger!
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Post by: Thanatos_elNyx
BrookM wrote:Hopefully a more in depth recollection of the webway portal beneath the Palace and the battle that raged there because some one-eyed donkey-cave had to use powerful magic to talk to his daddy and accidentally breach the seals put there.
Take that back!
But seriously, afaik the only source of the Webway project is the awful Collected Visions books.
I personally wouldn't mind if they squated that fiction and came up with a better reason for the Emperor retreating to Terra.
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Post by: Sinister Brain
The twist will be someone slits Erebus' throat and the little punk actually dies... or not.
A book or two on the webway battle would be pretty awesome I think. I find the Imperial Webway plot thing kind of interesting.
One thing that frustrated me a bit though was Alpha legion in Legion. They were barely in it. The rest was that Grammatiblahblah idiot and the IG dudes. While cool, I read the book for Alpha Legion. So... I hope if there is a book or 3 on Alpha legion vs Ultrasmurfs they have some more Alpha legion stuff in it than what Abnett put into Legion.
I know, I know... I'm asking a lot.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
The old fan-theory was that it was the Emp who died and horus is sitting on the throne.
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Post by: lords2001
I think an Ultramarines arc, where the first is pre-heresy, the second building up/Calth, and the third post Calth, would be awesome.
However, I would like the following legions looked at as well - Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Imp Fists, White Scars, SW Greybeards (following on from Tales of Heresy), Blood Angels.
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Post by: Shaman
Erebus cant die as he makes a cameo in a dread in the 40k novel dark apostle.. Sorry Sinister Brain Baby.
I really like the first one horus rising.. I think it went down hill from there, but I still dabble in these books sometimes.
The other story I really like was the short one about dorn and konrad, which was cool.
Ultras get three wow, Cant wait to read that propaganda.
I really wish they would write a World Eater Book. Just one.. not 3. And introduce someone else other then just kharn and angron.
Also does anyone else get the vibe they had a plan at the beginning but now just write whatever takes their fancy.. I kinda wish they would just get on with it and cover the important bits; The fall of each of the traitors, major battles (like calth)
And post the damn spoiler..
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Post by: BrookM
The writers have several meetings each year at the BL office to discuss their plans for the HH novels under the scrutiny of Lindsey and Alan.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
C'mon. What's the twist. Thanatos_elNyx wrote:True but you aren't going to have much on the Russians in a movie about D-Day are you? (So tempted to say that most hollywood movies don't even mention the British, Canadians, etc... but I won't!)
The story arc is about the Horus Heresy, even if the Ultramarines were fighting off the entire Eastern fringe it has nothing to do with the heresy.
They were fighting in the Heresy, therefore that has everything to do with the Heresy. You seem to think that in order to be involved in the Heresy, you had to be fighting on Terra. That's absurd.
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Post by: Thanatos_elNyx
You got me wrong.
I think that to be involved in the Heresy you had to be fighting against brother Legions. And but for a small foray at Calth the Ultramarines weren't that involved in the Heresy (by design as Horus had them shipped out to the Eastern Fringe to be out of the way) and almost certainly not enough to get a 3 book arc.
But then I guess GW will try to milk the HH series for as much as they can since it is quite a successful series.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Thanatos_elNyx wrote:I think that to be involved in the Heresy you had to be fighting against brother Legions.
So the Adeptus Mechanicus civil war doesn't count?
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Post by: Thanatos_elNyx
Now you are just nitpicking, we were talking about the Ultramarines.
Their only involvement, afaik, was at Calth. How they get 3 books out of that, I don't know, unless Battle for the Abyss was the first in the series.
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Post by: reds8n
ShumaGorath wrote:I know what the twist is, but I'd rather not ruin it for everyone. I heard it in an author interview a bit back. It is a pretty significant twist for basically all of the background fluff.
..is it that...
I gather Mr. Dembski Bowden -- whose Cadian Blood is alright and his Night Lords/Soul Hunter should be great !-- is writing a HH book called "First Heretic".
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Post by: Sinister Brain
Shaman wrote:Erebus cant die as he makes a cameo in a dread in the 40k novel dark apostle.. Sorry Sinister Brain Baby.
Oh yeah. 
I really wish they would write a World Eater Book. Just one.. not 3. And introduce someone else other then just kharn and angron.
That gets my vote too. I'd love to see a World eaters book. That was the one character I liked from Battle for the Snoozefest. Scrotum or Skraap or Skraal or whatever his name was. I liked him. He was the only one though.
I kinda wish they would just get on with it and cover the important bits; The fall of each of the traitors, major battles (like calth)
Yes, absolutely.
As I mentioned before I want a Alpha Legion book with, and I know this is crazy sounding, the actual legion in it for more than 15 pages? I love Abnett's writing but pfft!
The Dark Angels are most likely getting 3 books as well I'd imagine. Since they've covered everything right up to Luther's (Capt.Abandonement-issues) big speech about being left behind... waaaahhh! I'd also love to see some White Scars (it escapes me if they really did anything major during the Heresy).
There's a Raven Guard book coming as well right?
On the twist thing, it occurs to me that maybe they'll finally milk the unknown legions? Don't pop a blood vessel it's just a thought. 
Say for instance they they were there defending the palace and turned and caused the breech. "OH NOES! Legion Bob has turned!" It would be a twist and no one would really see that coming. Yeah, no way in hell huh? 
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Post by: Thanatos_elNyx
I had always assumed that anyway.
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Post by: BrookM
The two missing legions are already discussed in the short story the Lightning Tower.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Thanatos_elNyx wrote:Now you are just nitpicking...
No, I'm showing a contradiction.
You say the Horus Heresy is only about the Legions fighting, when we all know the Heresy had far more to it than that. To claim otherwise is ignorance. I cited the example of the Dark Mechanicus. You cannot dismiss my argument with a nice buzzword. 
And reds8n - Is that true? That's... lame.
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Post by: karimabuseer
Here's an idea...the ultrasmurfs go to a world and are owned by daemons? Kinda like the Blood Angels at sigma prime. Except the smurfs escape with more billies left alive. Also, they should write a HH book about te BA
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Post by: BrookM
I'd like to see one about the Iron Warriors, preferably the events leading up to the massacre at Olympia, but also the World Eaters, or the War Hounds as they were known before Angry Ron took over command of his Legion. Only problem is that some titanic events are so rushed and so muted. They've taken three novels to describe the fall of Horus but the Drop Pod massacre is but a small footnote so to say in the Fulgrim novel. I'm afraid that they might try and squeeze as much in a novel as they can, cutting away a lot as they trim it down to the required page amount.
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Post by: Alpharius
Thanatos_elNyx wrote:BrookM wrote:Hopefully a more in depth recollection of the webway portal beneath the Palace and the battle that raged there because some one-eyed donkey-cave had to use powerful magic to talk to his daddy and accidentally breach the seals put there.
Take that back!
But seriously, afaik the only source of the Webway project is the awful Collected Visions books.
I personally wouldn't mind if they squated that fiction and came up with a better reason for the Emperor retreating to Terra.
YES, to both of you!
If only that could be!
reds8n wrote:ShumaGorath wrote:I know what the twist is, but I'd rather not ruin it for everyone. I heard it in an author interview a bit back. It is a pretty significant twist for basically all of the background fluff.
..is it that...
We heard about this a long, long time ago, and I really hoped it wasn't true then, and I certainly hope it isn't true now.
That would be a very, very stupid 'twist' indeed...
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Post by: Balance
The secret twist:
Soylent Gold is the Emperor!
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Post by: Samus666
So far I've read Horus Rising, False Gods, Battle for the Abyss, and Legion. I thought False Gods was strongest. I like Dan Abnett's style of writing, but find his habit of practically ignoring the most important characters and events infuriating.
I'd really like each legion to have at least one book. Whatever they did during the Heresy, they were a part of events and it would be interesting to see what they were like in those days, and see the information from Index astartes fleshed out. I do think 3 books for the Ultras is excessive though.
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Post by: Platuan4th
Sinister Brain wrote:I'd also love to see some White Scars (it escapes me if they really did anything major during the Heresy).
They only, y'know, fought at Terra. Nothing major there.
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Post by: Thanatos_elNyx
My original statement was that the Ultramarines contributed very little to the Horus Heresy and don't deserve 3 books.
I realise that you probably took that personnally (being a half-brother and all), but that was not what was intended.
You accuse me of saying that only the fighting on Terra counted as the Horus Heresy, which of course is 'absurd' (and also completely not what I said) since there is alot more to the Heresy than the fight on Terra, there was of course the Istvaan massacres, the burning of Prospero, etc.
I then reiterated my point about the UM meagre contribution to the actual fighting in the Heresy, as they didn't fight 'brother Marines' except for Calth.
You then accuse me of saying that only the Legion Vs Legion fighting counted as the Horus Heresy, which of course is 'absurd' (and also completely not what I said) since the aforementioned Mechanicus Wars.
On my statement: "I think that [for the Ultramarines] to be involved in the Heresy [they] had to be fighting against brother Legions." I wasn't dismissing your arguments, I was just saying you totally missed the point.
H.B.M.C. wrote:You say the Horus Heresy is only about the Legions fighting, when we all know the Heresy had far more to it than that. To claim otherwise is ignorance.
You know you lose when you start insulting people right?
Though it is possible that you mean that in the American way rather than the European way. If so, I shall let it slide.
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Post by: Alpharius
We'll, he's Australian, so not sure if that helps or hurts...
I think we can all probably agree that we DON'T need THREE Ultramarine based Horus Heresy books though, right?
The Ultras probably did more of 'substance' after the Heresy anyway, so maybe they can star in the inevitable Scourging series of books...
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Post by: Just Dave
I think we may well need three Ultramarines books, afterall they were the biggest (and most organised) legion at the time and this debate makes it clear we're not entirely sure on what they did, although in contrast to Thanatos they certainly did something (Calth/near destruction, journey to Terra, Seige of Terra aftermath etc.)
But yeah, as Alpharius said they also did a lot (probably more) post Heresy/scourging
But yeah I'd like to see the rest of the legions activities looked into with more depth, even the World Eaters, although I'm not entirely sure how much killing I could stand in 1 book!
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Post by: Ozymandias
Maybe the twist is that Loken (?) survived and he's the one who drops Horus' shields.
Regarding the "spoiler":
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Post by: dashrendar
Ozymandias wrote:Maybe the twist is that Loken (?) survived and he's the one who drops Horus' shields.
I believe Loken is still alive, it was left too open at the end of the book, and it would be cool to see him come back in some way.
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Post by: legoburner
I heard McNeil get asked that question at a signing a while ago (Fulgrim era) and he said that (at the time) he was not going to do anything with Loken and it was entirely up to Dan Abnett, but as of then there were no plans to bring him back.
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Post by: BrookM
At another convention they said that Loken still lived and they wanted to use him in the post-heresy novels if they ever got around to that.
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Post by: Malika2
Well, we could see a novel in which the Ultramarines start conquering worlds really fast. This novel would deal with the formation of Ultramar, the intense recruitment and all that. Another one could deal with them fighting the Word Bearers and another one with them fighting the Alpha Legion.
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Post by: combatmedic
Heres hoping for another DA book Loved the first two.
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Post by: Alpharius
combatmedic wrote:Heres hoping for another DA book Loved the first two.
Seriously?
What was it that pushed it over the top for you - the billion uses of the word "surplice"?
I hope BL moves on the other Legions, but sadly the ending of Decent of Angels guarantees at least one more DA HH book...
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Post by: Scottywan82
BrookM wrote:The two missing legions are already discussed in the short story the Lightning Tower.
What book is this in? Any awesome revelations?
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Post by: Platuan4th
Scottywan82 wrote:BrookM wrote:The two missing legions are already discussed in the short story the Lightning Tower.
What book is this in? Any awesome revelations?
It's a small short story "chapbook" that was available at Games Days. I forgot to pick one up at GD LA 2008 and am kicking myself for it.
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Post by: BrookM
You can always download the audio book, it has the story Lightning Tower in it. You scoundrels should be able to find it on your own.
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Post by: Scottywan82
Alpharius wrote:combatmedic wrote:Heres hoping for another DA book Loved the first two.
Seriously?
What was it that pushed it over the top for you - the billion uses of the word "surplice"?
I hope BL moves on the other Legions, but sadly the ending of Decent of Angels guarantees at least one more DA HH book...
GW books are like Star Wars books. They're gak, but they're easy-to-read gak. The Dark Angels aren't as bad as some of the others, either. But none of them are good. They just are too unfocused and too poorly edited.
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Post by: Malika2
Personally I hope to see a sequel to Legion. Perhaps it could be combined with the Ultramarines novels. The Alpha Legion fighting against the Ultramarines. Or maybe something about the Alpha Legion trying to follow their own path instead of the orders of the Cabal, resulting in the Cabal maybe trying to manipulate the Ultramarines into fighting the Alpha Legion.
I dunno...just thinking out loud here!
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Post by: combatmedic
Alpharius wrote:combatmedic wrote:Heres hoping for another DA book Loved the first two.
Seriously?
What was it that pushed it over the top for you - the billion uses of the word "surplice"?
I hope BL moves on the other Legions, but sadly the ending of Decent of Angels guarantees at least one more DA HH book...
To be honest they should have just squished the first two books into one, as the second should have been the betrayal by Luther. But the ending to the second book did honestly shock me. Also surplices are awesome, everyone knows that, at least multi-lazers didn't make an appearance.
Iv tried to read some of the other HH books and just gotten board. I know it all comes down to personal preference, but I have always found the DA more interesting than any of the other chapters, save for 1k sons.
It just so happens that my preferred army is the most awesome.
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Post by: Malika2
I actually liked the first couple of HH novels, the DA, Mechanicum and Word Bearers novels on the other hand really bugged me. Sometimes I think its a shame that Abnett doesn't write the whole series, I really like his take on this sort of stuff, he almost manages to make 40k novels actually cool to read, rather than the purely "oh and then he grabbed his cannon and ran around shooting people" for about 300 pages...
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Post by: Kanluwen
Quite frankly, I hope Brown does a follow-up to Cadian Blood. That could make for a hell of a series!
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Post by: Just Dave
Malika2 wrote:I actually liked the first couple of HH novels, the DA, Mechanicum and Word Bearers novels on the other hand really bugged me. Sometimes I think its a shame that Abnett doesn't write the whole series, I really like his take on this sort of stuff, he almost manages to make 40k novels actually cool to read, rather than the purely "oh and then he grabbed his cannon and ran around shooting people" for about 300 pages...
I thought only stand-out poor books in the series were "Battle for the Abysmal Novel" and "Descent of the quality of this series", although I found Eisenstein and Fallen Angels to be a bit lacking in writing quality, they made up for it with good storylines. I though Mechanicum was also a great book! But Dan Abnett and Graham McNeill are definately the best writers IMHO... Anyway, back to the future of the series and staying on topic:
I think the Assassins book sounds really good, however although I feel that pretty much every Legion should have a HH book about them, I struggle to find much depth to the World Eaters... 
Kanluwen wrote:Quite frankly, I hope Brown does a follow-up to Cadian Blood. That could make for a hell of a series!
Whuh?!
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Post by: Kanluwen
Don't you "whuh?!" me! I liked it It was a cheap, quick action read. If he fleshed it out more, continued the 88th's progress and kept going...
It could become the next Gaunt's Ghosts series. Remember: First & Only/Ghostmaker were pretty poor compared to some of the later ones by Abnett. And they're pure garbage compared to the Eisenhorn trilogy and the Ravenor novels.
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Post by: skrulnik
I thought they pulled off the pre-Ecclesiarch feel of the Imperium in the first couple books.
They really hammered home the scientific, anti-religious attitude of the military.
But they seem to have lost that with Battle for the Abyss and the Angel books.
I enjoyed Legion. We were given a view into the mindset and methods of the chapter.
Mechanicum was very removed from the others and brought a new perspective to the Heresy to me.
It is getting irritating how they are obviously milking the series. After they got to the Drop Massacre tidbit in Legion, they have been stalling.
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Post by: Just Dave
I think skrulnik has it pretty much right, although personally I want to hear as much as I can - whilst still leaving bits for my imagination open however - about such a cool event...
Kanluwen wrote:Don't you "whuh?!" me! I liked it It was a cheap, quick action read. If he fleshed it out more, continued the 88th's progress and kept going...
It could become the next Gaunt's Ghosts series. Remember: First & Only/Ghostmaker were pretty poor compared to some of the later ones by Abnett. And they're pure garbage compared to the Eisenhorn trilogy and the Ravenor novels.
I was actually whuh[ing] about where it came from considering I didn't know the book and this is a thread bout the HH
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Post by: Kanluwen
Hah! My bad then Dave. I musta forgot to quote whoever was talking about it and the Night Lords novel Dembski-Brown has coming out.
Either way, pick it up if you enjoy Cadians, zombies, or the Death Guard
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Post by: Just Dave
Neither 
I like Night-Lords though!
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Thanatos_elNyx wrote:You know you lose when you start insulting people right?
Nonsense. You lose when you replace your arguments with insults (ie. Ad Hominem). I have not done so.
Thanatos_elNyx wrote: Though it is possible that you mean that in the American way rather than the European way. If so, I shall let it slide.
Ignorance
–noun
the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.
To claim that the Ultramarines had 'nothing' to do in the Heresy, or that the Heresy was nothing but Legions v Legions, implies ignorance.
You've yet to answer this claim.
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Post by: Savnock
BrookM wrote:The two missing legions are already discussed in the short story the Lightning Tower.
Might anyone be so kind as to briefly spoilerize this for those fluff nuts who find the idea of enduring a GW audiobook depressing?
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Post by: skrulnik
Savnock wrote:BrookM wrote:The two missing legions are already discussed in the short story the Lightning Tower.
Might anyone be so kind as to briefly spoilerize this for those fluff nuts who find the idea of enduring a GW audiobook depressing?
Sent you a PM
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Or just post it here.
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Post by: ph34r
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Dark_King_-_The_Lightning_Tower_(Audio_Book)
EDIT: hmm, I could have sworn that link used to contain more information. In any case, the 2 missing legions are described in the book by "Their separate tragedies had seemed like aberrations. Had they, in fact, been warnings that no one had heeded?"
EDIT2: And for the record, compared to the other legions around, the ultramarines did very little in the heresy. They basically sat around on the wrong side of the galaxy being successfully distracted by the Word Bearers.
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Post by: Thanatos_elNyx
HMBC wrote:Ignorance
–noun
the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.
In Europe, if you call someone Ignorant, you are saying that they are willfully ignorant and that is a grave insult.
In America, you are simply pointing out that they lack knowledge on a particular subject.
HMBC wrote:To claim that the Ultramarines had 'nothing' to do in the Heresy, or that the Heresy was nothing but Legions v Legions, implies ignorance.
You've yet to answer this claim.
I never claimed either of these things.
You mistook both original statements and you seem to have not read my last post where I pointed out both of your errors.
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Post by: skrulnik
H.B.M.C. wrote:Or just post it here.
If I had read it I would have.
I just told him where to find it.
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Post by: Scottywan82
Thanatos_elNyx wrote:HMBC wrote:Ignorance
–noun
the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.
In Europe, if you call someone Ignorant, you are saying that they are willfully ignorant and that is a grave insult.
In America, you are simply pointing out that they lack knowledge on a particular subject.
HBMC is Australian, not American. Not even America could produce an HMBC.
Also, I'm fairly certain the meaning of ignorance does not change on one side of an ocean.
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Post by: Thanatos_elNyx
Scottywan82 wrote:HBMC is Australian, not American. Not even America could produce an HMBC.
So it was mentioned, but I don't know what Australians mean when they call someone Ignorant.
From his def I assume he meant it in the unoffensive sense.
Scottywan82 wrote:Also, I'm fairly certain the meaning of ignorance does not change on one side of an ocean.
What pray tell does the word 'Fanny' mean in America?
Afaik, in America it refers to ones ... Gluteus Maximus.
In English speaking Europe, it refers to the female genitalia.
If this can have a totally different meaning, then I think Ignorance can have slightly different meanings.
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Post by: Just Dave
But 'Fanny' is slang and will have various meanings, whereas Ignorance is dictionary defined as HBMC put it...
anyway this is likely to get locked for straying off topic...
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Post by: legoburner
Correct, no more posts on this offtopic stuff or I will be locking the thread.
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Post by: Thanatos_elNyx
Fair enough.
Hey Legoburner, any other hints as to the target of the Protagonist in Nemesis?
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Post by: legoburner
Nope they skirted around saying it was a fairly major character but didnt even say that explicitly.
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Post by: Malika2
ph34r wrote:
EDIT2: And for the record, compared to the other legions around, the ultramarines did very little in the heresy. They basically sat around on the wrong side of the galaxy being successfully distracted by the Word Bearers.
Before the HH novels very little was known about what most of the Legions did before and during the Horus Heresy. I guess the Ultramarines were still carrying out their Great Crusade when the Heresy started. Then when they heard info about Horus' betrayal they immediately turned for Terra, only to run into the Word Bearers who started attacking Ultramar.
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Post by: Alpharius
Malika2 wrote:ph34r wrote:
EDIT2: And for the record, compared to the other legions around, the ultramarines did very little in the heresy. They basically sat around on the wrong side of the galaxy being successfully distracted by the Word Bearers.
Before the HH novels very little was known about what most of the Legions did before and during the Horus Heresy. I guess the Ultramarines were still carrying out their Great Crusade when the Heresy started. Then when they heard info about Horus' betrayal they immediately turned for Terra, only to run into the Word Bearers who started attacking Ultramar.
That is a very good point of course.
It is fun to poke fun at the Ultramarines, but we all know that they were up to a lot of good during the Crusade, and after it too...
Still, THAT'S where I think the 3 books should be - set after the Heresy, not really during.
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Post by: WC_Brian
Da Boss wrote:I can't say I'm excited. Except for Horus Rising, the quality of writing in the series has been so inconsistent I can't bear to read any more. I thought they were really going somewhere interesting with that first book, and then it was all just bleh.
I heard a lot of people rating Flight of the Eisenstein highly for example, so I was really excited to pick it up and read it, and it was bloody terrible. The baddies were like Panto villains with bugger all motivation. Seriously. That one dude that turns into a daemon prince or whatever was only lacking a twiddly fecking moustache.
Ya know this stuff is pulp fiction right?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Scottywan82 wrote:
GW books are like Star Wars books. They're gak, but they're easy-to-read gak. The Dark Angels aren't as bad as some of the others, either. But none of them are good. They just are too unfocused and too poorly edited.
While I generally agree I think there are a few exceptions like Storm of Iron and Daemon World and I can't think of anything else right now. At least their stories are interesting enough that it doesn't matter that they are not exceptional literary works.
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Post by: combatmedic
It also depends on the subject of the book. It could be the "greatest book ever written about ultramarines", if you dislike the smurfs or space marines in general, its not going to pull you in. For me personally I found the Ad Mech and DA book many times more fun to read than the other books, even more so for space wolves.
It all comes down to what you enjoy.
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Post by: Scottywan82
WC_Brian wrote:
Scottywan82 wrote:
GW books are like Star Wars books. They're gak, but they're easy-to-read gak. The Dark Angels aren't as bad as some of the others, either. But none of them are good. They just are too unfocused and too poorly edited.
While I generally agree I think there are a few exceptions like Storm of Iron and Daemon World and I can't think of anything else right now. At least their stories are interesting enough that it doesn't matter that they are not exceptional literary works.
See, that's funny, because I thought both of those were awful. Particularly Daemon World. Whatever, lol, so it's specifically like the NJO series for Star Wars. Some is awesome, some is utter crap, and no one can agree on which is which.
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Post by: Carlovonsexron
Samus666 wrote:So far I've read Horus Rising, False Gods, Battle for the Abyss, and Legion. I thought False Gods was strongest. I like Dan Abnett's style of writing, but find his habit of practically ignoring the most important characters and events infuriating.
I guess that means that, according to the common conception of what they were doing, the Ultramarines are a perfect fit for abnett during that time period..
seriously though, I wouldn't mind seeing what comes of these books...
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Post by: Da Boss
WC_Brian wrote:Da Boss wrote:I can't say I'm excited. Except for Horus Rising, the quality of writing in the series has been so inconsistent I can't bear to read any more. I thought they were really going somewhere interesting with that first book, and then it was all just bleh.
I heard a lot of people rating Flight of the Eisenstein highly for example, so I was really excited to pick it up and read it, and it was bloody terrible. The baddies were like Panto villains with bugger all motivation. Seriously. That one dude that turns into a daemon prince or whatever was only lacking a twiddly fecking moustache.
Ya know this stuff is pulp fiction right?
Sure it's pulp. Bad pulp. I appreciate good pulp as much as the next man, but Flight of the Eisenstein was just embarassing.
As to yer man that liked Flight but hated First and Only- you have the complete opposite taste to me!
I gotta say, I thought the series would move along faster. There seems to be a good bit of time wasting going on right now.
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Post by: reds8n
Whilst we have this thread open then : a few snippets you migt have missed
Next summer sees the launch of Warhammer Heroes – a range of novels dealing with some of the Old World's biggest, most iconic warriors. We all agreed that the covers needed to convey the epic stature of these larger-than-life characters, so we commissioned Cheol Joo Lee, the artist behind the jaw-dropping cover for Nick Kyme's Salamander. The first book in the series is called Sword of Justice and concerns the Emperor's champion and standard bearer, Ludwig Schwarzhelm. It's being written by Chris Wraight of Iron Company fame and will go on sale next July. We decided to get all fancy pants with the series design, so the artwork will wrap around the jacket and have no text on it all. All the titling will sit underneath on a second piece of cover stock. I'm probably not making myself very clear, but if you look at the mock-up you should get the gist. The finished artifact should look pretty darn spiffing...
After Istvaan V, Horus declares outright war against the Imperium. In the shadows of the Emperor's Palace, powerful figures convene. Their plan - to send a team of assassins to execute the arch-traitor Horus and end the war for the galaxy of mankind before it's even begun. But what they cannot know is that another assassin is abroad already, with his sights firmly set on killing the Emperor.
Aaron Dembski-Bowden had the following to say with regards to the Night Lords and the HH -- the buzz over his forthcoming 41stM Night Lords novel is very solid and promising.
I get asked this from time to time, and I suspect I'll get asked it that much more when Soul Hunter is released in March next year. I'm making this in a public move to have something to link to when I get asked in the future.
The Question: "Aaron, will you write about the Night Lords in the Horus Heresy?"
The Answer: No. Probably not.
The Follow-Up: "Why not?"
The Reply: Well, there are five reasons.
The first reason is because I don't want to do it. In 25 years of conflicting lore, overlapping truths, fethed-up timelines and changing events, the Night Lords in the Horus Heresy are among the worst cases of "None of this gak makes sense"-ness. People are already hugely confused on just what events happen, and when. Hell, I'm one of them. We're at a point where the first books have made it look like the Traitor Legions are about to do nothing but make full speed to the Siege of Terra, when there's supposed to be 4 years or so before they arrive.
I don't want to go near the Night Lords Heresy timeline. I've tried to make notes on it before, and it was like listening to Cradle of Filth while a dwarf took a hammer to my balls. I enjoyed, like, zero percent of the experience. And that's rounding up.
The second reason is because of Zso Sahaal. Zso Sahaal was the main character in Simon Spurrier's Lord of the Night - the one-off Night Lords book that was released by BL several years ago. Lord of the Night was a good book, and I enjoyed it a lot. It's certainly among the better-written BL novels out there, and Simon Spurrier is a fething killer writer.
I didn't really like Zso Sahaal that much, though. I felt the entire book was evocative and atmospheric, but not a great look at the Legion, and Zso Sahaal was the principle issue in that. He was all about how he alone was pure and awesome enough to be just like his primarch father's intentions, and absolutely everyone else was weak and corrupt. I got tired of constantly being told how he was the best. All right, I get it. Enough now, Drizzt.
Strangely, he fainted all the time, for no reasons I could really discern, like a woman in a 50s Tom & Jerry cartoon who happens to see a mouse. He was staggeringly self-important, not only in his own arrogance (which was a beautifully-written part of his character), but in how he was absolutely the most important Astartes in the entire Night Lords Legion (which was... just a bit silly). He claimed he was the primarch's heir, which is something many people could easily claim, and is an interesting aspect to his character arc. But then on the other hand, he tells us that he invented Raptors / Jump-pack Assault Squads.
No, Zso Sahaal. No, you really didn't. You, one little guy in the Night Lords, were not the one guy who invented Raptors and spread them to a million other Astartes across the burgeoning Imperium. I'm fairly certain, y'know, the Emperor... or one of his demigod primarch sons... I'm fairly certain these overlords in control of an entire galaxy didn't go to you for advice on how to get into close combat a little bit faster. The Mechanicum came right to you when they'd invented jump-packs? They were like "Hey, Wolverine, you want to have these and show them to the Emperor and the primarchs? Maybe take all the credit for the science part?"
No.
All of this aside, I have a lot of love for Simon Spurrier's work, especially on Judge Dredd with the Simping Detective. He sweats talent. Just because I don't like Zso Sahaal doesn't mean I didn't like the book (which rocked) or his work (which rocks even harder).
However, as First Captain of the Legion, a character I can't relate to would be pretty much everywhere in a Night Lords Horus Heresy Series story. So... no. That's reason 2, and while it's actually the least important, it's also the most difficult to explain (which is why it needed so many words compared to the others), and is certainly the one people will whine most at me about.
The third reason is because of that freaking killer audio book Graham wrote. When it comes to reasons of "But another writer already did X, Y and Z..." this is the real deal.
At this stage, I'd rate The Dark King as part of Graham's best work, alongside Mechanicum and Fulgrim. It's a killer part of the HH series, and it deals with the Night Lords' primarch: from his deviancy to his arrest and imprisonment by Rogal Dorn, to his escape and the destruction of Nostramo... all of which leads right into the Isstvan Massacres.
With the greatest respect to Graham, those are the best fething bits.
That, I assume, is why he chose to write them, and in turn, why The Dark King is such a killer story. Why would I want to rehash that? Well, the answer is that I wouldn't. Could I expand upon something I already regard as next to perfect? Uh, sure. But I don't want to. Next.
The fourth reason is because I'm already dealing with a lot of this stuff in the Night Lords series. Shadow Knight showed a glimpse of Night Lord warfare back then, and Talos's induction into the Legion. Soul Hunter has a great deal about how losing the Heresy has broken the Night Lords, and the repercussions of that defeat. It also has memories of the primarch, and events during the Heresy itself.
The Night Lords aren't like imperial Astartes; they can delve deep into the galaxy's ancient past, because to them it's not really the past at all. Given the way the warp eats time, for many of them, the Horus Heresy wasn't that long ago - and just as they are shaped by a conflict that's mere mythology to most people, they're still pissed off about it. They're still reacting to it. It defines a lot of them, and gives them purpose.
The Night Lords I'm writing about in their own series were there, back in the Heresy. It's fresh in their memories. It's something they still dwell upon. So naturally, in flashbacks, thoughts and the ins 'n outs of cause and effect, there's a fair amount of stuff in these new books that will deal with what the Legion did back then.
This is essentially having my cake and eating it, but whatever. It's also a great way to tell an interesting story about Traitor Astartes. Dare I say it? The best way.
The fifth and final reason is the most important, and that's simply because I have other ideas. My dislike for writing a Horus Heresy novel about the Night Lords isn't founded on negativity, but positivity. I have other ideas I want to explore. Other, more interesting plots that I'd like to look into and bring to the light. It's less about avoiding a difficult issue than it is about being instinctively and creatively drawn to doing other things.
On one level, I think only a sucker would get given the invitation into the Horus Heresy circle and then say "Cool, yeah, I'll... keep doing exactly the same stuff I've been doing so far, about the same guys, in the same army, in the same fights."
Oh, no.
I have plans, me.
As I said at Games Day, the working title for the novel I'm about to start writing is The First Heretic.
Now go. Tell the internet. See if I care
..as you command I guess...
There's an ork at the bottom of this cover who's having a really bad day. I'm not sure how he's managed to lose his entire body, but I have a feeling he might never fully recover. Helsreach is the second of our Space Marine Battles series and the artwork is by the wonderful Jon Sullivan – a man with more talent than is probably legal. The book's released in May and should look very dapper - it will be in the same large format as our omnibus editions and feature a selection of full colour tactical maps.
This is the same series that is about to feature the Crimson Fists/Rynn's World saga..... a clever company would, I dunno, release a bitz pack or something to go alongside..hmmm...
and from the mouth...well, fingers of Gav Thorpe over on Warseer
I know less about BL's plans now than when I was liaising with them as a games developer! I don't even know when the next book I'm writing for them [<plug> Space Marine Battles series, guys with funky robes and green armour </plug>] will be out
.... I wonder if this will be about the Piscina campaign ? That's the most famous DA battle that I can recall outside of the HH anyway.
and the cover for the summer 2010 omnibus of the Shia Calpurnia series... this will, I believe, have the obilgatory extra few odds and sods to entice your monies out of your wallets.
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Post by: BrookM
I like Aaron, his Cadian novel was a fine romp and his honest and expletive laden blog posts are such an improvement over the swill over at the old BL site.
And hurrah for a Shira Capurnia omnibus, I'd much rather have a new novel in the series but oh well, this will do.
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Post by: lords2001
Dude, I had a look through the BL schedule - I don't love every single release, but I have enjoyed at least some of every book I've read (which is mainly the more recent ones).
Heck, if there is someone from BL who reads this - I will downpay every new release (that isn't an omnibus of something I already own) for the next year, if you just deliver them to me and don't make me wait for Aus GW to get them in.
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Post by: reds8n
Can you not, currently at least, order them direct from GW ? and get them that way ?
oh, finished cover art :
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Post by: BrookM
Pity that BL is mostly putting out series these days, I kinda miss the one-off novels like Necromancer, Lord of the Night and other such great non-serialized novels.
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Post by: Shaman
So that Aaron guy basicailly says.. yeah you ruined night lords with that Zhu character but your a great writer..
Lawl..
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Post by: reds8n
Gav Thorpe's Space Marine Battles book is called " Purging of Kadillus ".... I assume there might be supposed to be a "The" in there somewhere.
..which is the main continent on Piscina IV..so..wonder if we'll get to read about Vet. Serg. Naaman and Koth Ridge then.
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Post by: Gridge
Alpharius wrote:Malika2 wrote:ph34r wrote:
EDIT2: And for the record, compared to the other legions around, the ultramarines did very little in the heresy. They basically sat around on the wrong side of the galaxy being successfully distracted by the Word Bearers.
Before the HH novels very little was known about what most of the Legions did before and during the Horus Heresy. I guess the Ultramarines were still carrying out their Great Crusade when the Heresy started. Then when they heard info about Horus' betrayal they immediately turned for Terra, only to run into the Word Bearers who started attacking Ultramar.
That is a very good point of course.
It is fun to poke fun at the Ultramarines, but we all know that they were up to a lot of good during the Crusade, and after it too...
Still, THAT'S where I think the 3 books should be - set after the Heresy, not really during.
It would be a big disappointment for many not to chronicle what the Ultramarines did during the heresy. They are a major chapter and there is no reason not to expand on the role they played. Plus, as is mentioned above they did indeed battle another legion even if they didn't split themselves. I think that some just don't care for the Ultras and are letting this influence their perception of fairness. They are by no means my favorite chapter but the tale of the heresy would seem incomplete if they were left out.
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Post by: Kanluwen
reds8n wrote:Gav Thorpe's Space Marine Battles book is called " Gav Thorpe's DA book will be called " Purging of Kadillus ".... I assume there might be supposed to be a "The" in there somewhere.
..which is the main continent on Piscina IV..so..wonder if we'll get to read about Vet. Serg. Naaman and Koth Ridge then.
Oh man. Awesome. Naaman was a classic character, and should be brought back to the DA codex.
Also, it's worth mentioning that the newest Gaunt's Ghost novel "Blood Pact" comes out on Tuesday.
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Post by: reds8n
I've read Blood Pact already, enjoyed it very much. Quite a short book in terms of what happens. but very enjoyable. A kind of reverse Traitor General.
Dan Abnett has done an interview with BL, which you can watch here.
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Post by: BrookM
Interview with golden boy Dan about Blood Pact and Prospero Burns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qHhXfA25Io
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Post by: reds8n
..little slow there methinks...
meanwhile...
More glorious artwork from the legend that is Clint Langley. This time it's a fantastically angry-looking ork for the front of Christian Dunn's forthcoming 40K anthology, Fear the Alien. the book's released in September.
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Post by: Ronin
I so hope that's a novel about Orks, and not just Space Marines fighting Orks.
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Post by: reds8n
It's an anthology of short stories..with aliens being the recurring theme or foe. They opened this out to BL fans as well so at least one of the stories is by a new author.
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Post by: Ronin
A pity then, but might be worth picking up maybe (Im a sucker for BL books).
I just wish there was a novel told from an Ork's point of view. Imagine the grimdark hilarity.
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Post by: reds8n
Closest you'll get, from what BL have said is Deff Skwadron.
That said Gav Thorpe is doing an Eldar trilogy from an Eldar POv so maybe one day...
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Post by: Ronin
Yep, Path of the Warrior. About some Striking Scorpion from Alaitoc (my favourite Craftworld, as it happens). Looking forward to that one too.
More xenos love please
and yes, Ive heard of that graphic novel before. Need to try and get my hands on it somehow
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Post by: reds8n
Host: Black Library
Network: Global
Date: Saturday, December 5, 2009
Time: 1:00pm - 4:00pm
Location: Games Workshop Sydney Bunker Store
Description Anthony Reynolds and Henry Zou will be signing their latest books and Mal Green from Black Library will be there to talk about our future releases.
Black Library Australian Tour
Come and meet Anthony Reynolds, Henry Zou and Mal Green from Black Library
Host: Black Library
Network: Global
Date: Thursday, December 3, 2009
Time: 4:00pm - 7:00pm
Location: Games Workshop Chermside, Brisbane
Description Anthony Reynolds and Henry Zou will be signing their latest books and Mal Green from Black Library will be there to talk about our future releases.
If you dig chaos then Mr. Reynolds' Dark Apostle series is well worth picking up..the second in the series even gives you a glimpse towards what, I believe, GW are going to do with elements of the Dark Eldar range as well. His Brettonian novels are also very good IMO.
Mr. Zou's work received a more mixed reception from what I can recall from the BL forums, but I thought it was a bravura start to a series, reminded me of some of Mr. Abnett's early work.
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Post by: reds8n
One of his Warhammer 40,000 novels was the 8th bestselling SF and Fantasy title in the UK in 2008 – overall for the year
blimey, that is good going. I've read most of Triumff and enjoying it very much so far, remidns me of Pratchett's work with Gaiman.
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Post by: Alpharius
Is there still a Black Library Forum somewhere?
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Post by: Lord of battles
Lord of night was great, I always wanted a sequal.
and what did the ultramarines do really during the heresy? rowboat wrote a book.
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Post by: Ozymandias
During the Heresy, not much. After the Heresy, they held the Imperium together.
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Post by: reds8n
Alpharius wrote:Is there still a Black Library Forum somewhere?
Not currently. When their site reconstruction is done they have said there will be again, in theory "most" of the content from the previous one will be shipped over to the new one.
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Post by: BrookM
Henry Zou's book was a fun read. At first I put it down because the main character was shown as a big arsehole who preferred to let a bigwig wait while he enjoyed some fisticuffs and sodomy but as I got past that I found it a really good read. It has humanity in it, it tells you what happens to the citizens during war and it shows that not all citizens are cowering in their homes praying, but doing other things, like donating blood or searching the rubble for lost loved ones.
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Post by: combatmedic
God damn it why is all the awesome books coming out at once? Cant they spread em out a bit?
I really hope that DA book is about Naaman.
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Post by: BrassScorpion
Notice that certain popular books are coming back in print? Last year they reprinted Uplifting Primer with a bit of new material in it to tempt owners of the original, now Liber Chaotica Complete is back in print. Apparently, this trend will continue and more books, some of them "classic" older books, will be coming back in print.
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Post by: BrookM
Yes, that has been said some time ago.
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Post by: reds8n
A few snippets :
In GW stores ( in the UK at least.. sorry ) they have the next sampler booklet with some tasters of future BL releases.
This includes a page or so from both Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns, both seem promising enough -- Ahriman features in the former whilst the latter seems to be set on Fenris itself.
They also reveal that Steve Lyons is doing a Guard audio book -- "Waiting Death" which features Stracken and his Catachans. Related to this Nick Kyme has finished and handed in his draft of "Fireborn" ( his Salamander audio book also for next year ) and part of this includes keeping a draft of the script for a possible future paper and ink release, something I gather they might do with all/most future audio books at some point. No idea if this will apply to past releases as well, sorry.
With regards to the Print On Demand system BL roll out next year the first batch will include Ian Watson's "Space Marine" ( ! That will be a "heretical tome" methinks), The Gothic War Omnibus -- collecting Execution Hour and Shadow Point (both excellent and well worth picking up) and Insignium Astartes as well... hmm... I'd avoid that one if I was you.
Hopefully we will also see that Jes Goodwin sketchbook reprinted as well then. 
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Post by: Flachzange
reds8n wrote:
With regards to the Print On Demand system BL roll out next year the first batch will include Ian Watson's "Space Marine" ( ! That will be a "heretical tome" methinks), The Gothic War Omnibus -- collecting Execution Hour and Shadow Point (both excellent and well worth picking up) and Insignium Astartes as well... hmm... I'd avoid that one if I was you.
Hopefully we will also see that Jes Goodwin sketchbook reprinted as well then.
I really enjoy reading Watsons books. Theyre corny for sure, but they got flavor.
Gothic war books are cool - I enjoyed them as well.
IA, well for the collections sake, I might have to pick it up. Sketchbooks would be friggin awesome!!
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Post by: BrookM
Index Astartes was a good waste of my money. I was expecting something along the lines of the Gothic and the Eldritch or the Inquisitor Sketch book, not a book full of poorly rendered marines.
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Post by: temprus
BrookM wrote:Index Astartes was a good waste of my money. I was expecting something along the lines of the Gothic and the Eldritch or the Inquisitor Sketch book, not a book full of poorly rendered marines.
Um, you mean Insignium Astartes, methinks. Index Astartes and Gothic and the Eldritch would be welcome reprints.
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Post by: Alpharius
Seconded!
A massive tome reprinting ALL of the Index Astartes articles would be very welcome.
Of course, they had rules that no longer apply, and background that may contradict the current stuff...
Whatever!
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Post by: BrassScorpion
Insignium Astartes was probably the least desirable art book on Space Marines they ever produced, yet it fetches more than $70 on average on eBay lately. Space Marine stuff sells no matter what. Hilarious since Black Library was selling of their excess copies for $10 each at US Games Day this year.
By the way for anyone who missed it, Liber Chaotica Complete is back on shelves already.
Any ideas yet what other out of print books are coming back?
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Post by: Shaman
Ronin wrote:Yep, Path of the Warrior. About some Striking Scorpion from Alaitoc (my favourite Craftworld, as it happens). Looking forward to that one too.
More xenos love please
and yes, Ive heard of that graphic novel before. Need to try and get my hands on it somehow
Deff skwadron use to be up for free on the black library site.. before the site turned into suckage. I tried to find it for ya but its gone.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Gav Thorpe will be signing copies of Shadow King at Games Workshop, Cheltenham.
Sat 19th Dec 12-2pm
Cheltenham
01242 228419
16 Pittville Street,
Cheltenham
Figured you'd want a heads up, in case anyone wants the novel.
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Post by: Flachzange
Alpharius wrote:Seconded!
A massive tome reprinting ALL of the Index Astartes articles would be very welcome.
Of course, they had rules that no longer apply, and background that may contradict the current stuff...
Whatever!
When did they EVER care about that though?
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Post by: Fallen668
I picked up the New edition of Libre Chaotica recently. I am very glad to finally have this book since I missed it the first time as single volumes due to unemployment, and the second time because of being short on cash for a while. I do have one minor complaint though. On the dustjacket it has an "I won such and such award" blurb on it. I though that was just a sticker when I saw it on the shelf but regretfully it is actually printed on the dustjacket. It is not also printed on the cover but who removes dustjackets? Very minor complaint I know, but it did annoy me slightly.
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Post by: reds8n
If you look in the Slaaneshs ection in said tome, you'll get an idea of what some of the revamped Dark Eldar should look like.
@ Mr. Brass Scorpion : my understanding is that with the P.O.D. system all the books that BL ( not GW note) have ever done will be eventually available.
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Post by: BrassScorpion
@Reds8n: Thanks for the additional info.
@Fallen668: About the "award" on the cover of the new book, I was looking at that on a copy of the new printing in a GW store the other day and was also surprised to see that it was actually printed on the dustjacket rather than being a sticker.
I'm also surprised that the new printing Liber Chaotica Complete hasn't appeared on Amazon.com yet. Usually, Amazon sells those $50 BL books for about $31-$33 and the $30 ones for $19-$22. I got the paperback Liber Chaotica Complete from Amazon the first time around for $22.
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Post by: Ozymandias
Oooh, can't wait to get the Liber Necris(sp?), missed that the first time.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Black Library Calling all Australian fans. Don't forget that our Australian tour is next weekend. So if you want to meet Anthony Reynolds, Henry Zou and Mal Green from Black Library come along to Games Workshop Chermside, Brisbane between 4pm and 7pm on Thurs 3rd of Dec or Games Workshop Sydney bunker between 1pm and 4pm on Sat 5th ...of Dec. Lots of signing, lots of new books! See you there!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Er. Forgot to put: that just came up on twitter a few moments ago.
Lucky gits. Henry Zoooooooooooooooooooooooooooou!
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Post by: Shaman
Wow they are actually coming to brisbane.
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Post by: Dorns Fist
I love all Black Library stuff, but I really don't like the smurfs. They have been so boring. I can't stand Uriel, and I doubt that the 30K version will be any good either.
I am excited for the other stuff though! Has anyone heard anything about the Imperial Fists? I guess they may wait until the end, and feature them during the Siege.
It would also be good to do a series of books focusing on the events after the HH. Kurze being assassinated, the Iron Cage, the smurfs enforcing thier book, etc
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Post by: Kanluwen
Ahem.
This just went up on the twitter feed...
Cover for the new audiobook, "Waiting Death" detailing Straken and his exploits.
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Post by: reds8n
You can win free, signed Black Library books quiet easily if you follow the instructions here.
Worth an email at least.
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Post by: Flachzange
How are you guys likin the audiobooks so far?
I have one of em, havent had a chance to listen to it yet though (thanks D6G lol)
thanks for the link red!
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Post by: reds8n
You're welcome.
Overall I've enjoyed them, the Gotrek and Felix one being a clear head and shoulders above the rest IMO, partially I wonder if as a result of Mr. Long's previous screenwriting career ? Looking forward to Raven's Flight and Nick Kyme's Salamander one, and I think Gav Thorpe's fantasy one shoule be good. Nick Kyme has talked about them starting to release text versions as well perhaps, which is a sensible idea methinks.
I find them quite good to have on whilst painting.
Oh..posted your book t'other, let em know when it arrives, postage was quite cheap so ...merry Xmas I guess. 
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Post by: Flachzange
reds8n wrote:You're welcome.
Overall I've enjoyed them, the Gotrek and Felix one being a clear head and shoulders above the rest IMO, partially I wonder if as a result of Mr. Long's previous screenwriting career ? Looking forward to Raven's Flight and Nick Kyme's Salamander one, and I think Gav Thorpe's fantasy one shoule be good. Nick Kyme has talked about them starting to release text versions as well perhaps, which is a sensible idea methinks.
I find them quite good to have on whilst painting.
Oh..posted your book t'other, let em know when it arrives, postage was quite cheap so ...merry Xmas I guess.
I got Heart of Rage and preordered Ravens Flight. Really looking forward to the second one. I missed out on the first they brought out ... what was it? The Dark Tower? since it was BL direct order only. And I somehow missed the Gotrek and Felix altogether. I find the fhb books lacking somewhat at the moment. Dont know about printing them. Heart of rage is only what ... and hour or so long?
Awesome! Ill let you know! And a big thanks!
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Post by: reds8n
Well, we thought it would never happen...but it is...
the design for the forthcoming BL reprint of Ian Watson's Space Marine novel...
..striking design to say the least, via the BL facebook page.
3
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Post by: Kanluwen
It says something about "print on demand".
Curious.
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Post by: reds8n
As previously announced at this year's Black Library Live!, Black Library will be launching a range of Print on Demand titles in January 2010 to bring back classic and fan-favourite novels, graphic novels and artbooks that have been out of print for many years. Most of these titles will be brought back through this special service whilst a few will have minor edits to reflect changes to the background of the Warhammer and Warhammer 40000 worlds.
They've already announced an Execution Hour/Shadowpoint omnibus which will sell like hot cakes, both very good books.
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Post by: BrookM
Relaunching old stuff is nice, but I wonder, will they ever finish the Rogue Trader series? It ended rather open and abruptly with the second novel.
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Post by: reds8n
Indeed. Mr. Hoare is continuing to write for BL --he's taken over the Raven Guard/Whitescars/Demon Prince novel duties-- and he's also done/doing some work for FFG on their RT line, so we can but hope.
Incidentally:
October :
Aenarion by Gav Thorpe
Ciaphas Cain : Defender of the Imperium by Sandy Mitchell
Gaunt's Ghosts : Blood Pact by Dan Abnett
Warrior Priest by Darius Hinks
November :
Zombieslayer by Nathan Long
The First Heretic by Aaron Dembski-Bowden
Firedrake by Nick Kyme
December:
The Emperor's Finest by Sandy Mitchell
Dead Men Walking by Steve Lyons
January 2011:
God King by Graham McNeill
Blood Gorgons by Henry Zou
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Post by: BrookM
Ugh, I see that they're milking the Slayer saga into adnauseam now. Can't be much left to slay, unless they're fixating on sub-species next. 
But I am looking forward to those Zou novels a lot. Emperor's Mercy was a pleasant surprise to say at the very least. And I'm guessing that God King is Graham's next entry to the Horus Heresy. When's the third Sigmar novel due again?
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Post by: reds8n
You don't reckon God King is the 3rd Sigmar novel perhaps ?
I love Mr. Long's stuff with F & G, I prefer his books for them to Bill Kings' stuff now, the last few in the series have been excellant books, even if he did "steal"/ actually use my idea befroe I could be arsed to get round to it.
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Post by: BrookM
Hmm, good point. I hope that the third Sigmar novel tackles that spat between him and Nagash.
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Post by: Flachzange
BrookM wrote:Hmm, good point. I hope that the third Sigmar novel tackles that spat between him and Nagash.
It would seem so. Seeing how these are supposed to be trilogies. Im really looking forward to that as well, seeing how I enjoyed Heldenhammer and Empire quite a bit. Nagash was a great read too and the second one will hopefully keep up as well.
I dropped the slayer saga quite a while ago. I used to like them a lot but this is just seriously getting dumb.
Space Marine is looking excellent though.
One more for the quite extensive amazon preorder list lol
Oh and the second Malekith book. Looking forward to that as well. Im not gonna talk about HH. The clash between Wolves/Sons is already a must-read. Automatically Appended Next Post: reds8n wrote:You don't reckon God King is the 3rd Sigmar novel perhaps ?
I love Mr. Long's stuff with F & G, I prefer his books for them to Bill Kings' stuff now, the last few in the series have been excellant books, even if he did "steal"/ actually use my idea befroe I could be arsed to get round to it.
Huh, honestly? Like I said, i dropped the series a while back. I wouldnt mind the titles if the book turns out awesome, obviously, but they do look/feel a wee bit boring. So thats an honest recommend, yes?
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Post by: reds8n
Oh yes. Orcslayer starts a bit awkwardly in parts but rallies well, Manslayer is good, the only detraction being the end fight dragging a little bit -- and he explained the whys and hows of that on the old forum ages ago-- whilst elf and shamanslayer have both kicked serious ass. He writes in a very cinematic fashion which works well for the Warhammer World. And like I said before, his audiobook is great, best one they've done. Read Elfslayer beforehand though.
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Post by: Howard A Treesong
So is the Space Marine reprint a faithful one? Or have they messed around with the text to make it "fit" their current fluff which is what I understand they've done with other old reprints.
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Post by: BrookM
Space Marine is dubbed a heretical tome, so nothing is changed.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
reds8n wrote:Well, we thought it would never happen...but it is...
the design for the forthcoming BL reprint of Ian Watson's Space Marine novel...
..striking design to say the least, via the BL facebook page.
Ooooooooo 'Space Marine' if you don't know is the most solidly homoerotic novel GW has put out. It has boarding torpedos ramming up Tyranid spinchers, it has unrequited Battle Brother love and ejaculating bolters.
It's a must read for all GW fans! Automatically Appended Next Post: BrookM wrote:Space Marine is dubbed a heretical tome, so nothing is changed.
For reals?
Awesome!
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Post by: BrassScorpion
Black Library officially announced that through P.O.D. (printing on demand) virtually every book they've ever printed will become availalble again over time. They even announed which title would be the first to come back in print through P.O.D. Now I'm really glad I already sold my last copy of Insignium Astartes a few weeks ago!
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Post by: warboss
Kanluwen wrote:Ahem.
This just went up on the twitter feed...
Cover for the new audiobook, "Waiting Death" detailing Straken and his exploits.
um... what happened to the super cyber-nipple that the model has?
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Post by: Kanluwen
Obviously they airbrushed it out, it's a wardrobe malfunction on the model.
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Post by: BrassScorpion
First, I saw Gav Thorpe signing books. Do you think anyone stopped to get their Codex Chaos Space Marines signed?
Second, did I hear correctly one of the fans at 1:24 into the video say that Games Day is the "penultimate event" for any GW fan? If so, what event does he think is ultimate?
Third, is that perhaps the worst "video dating" vid ever for a lot of people appearing in it, guaranteed to cause loneliness?
Rhetorical questions I can't help but ponder.
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Post by: reds8n
I was wondering the exact same thing.
Needed more pictures of people waiting in line to capture the essentially British feel of the event.
Still... it was a day out I guess, I think the Design Studio open day and Black Library Live are better events.
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Post by: BrookM
Black Library Live is always a great even from what I gather from reviews by visitors. Design Studio on the other hand, lots of closed doors and dodging of questions.
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Post by: Flachzange
Meeting the authors is really the only reason Id have to go to a GD these days. I missed out on the German this year sadly.
The BL crew also does ALOT of tube vids concerning questions and all sorts of random interviews. Always good to listen to Dan talk about his books, motives and future stuff.
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Post by: BrookM
BL is really taking steps to keep people in the loop, just look at their Twitter feed and their Facebook account, almost daily updates and links on things, not to mention sneak peeks and whatnots.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Isn't it awesome when a company keeps interest going with regular updates, sneak previews and embraces new technology to let loose snippets of what they've got planned for the future.
Much better than stonewalling the customer base, treating the internet like a necessary evil and keeping them in the dark about fething everything.
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Post by: Flachzange
H.B.M.C. wrote:Isn't it awesome when a company keeps interest going with regular updates, sneak previews and embraces new technology to let loose snippets of what they've got planned for the future.
Much better than stonewalling the customer base, treating the internet like a necessary evil and keeping them in the dark about fething everything.
Qft!
Brook said it all. They make sure that the customers know whats goin on. Look at their current "site". Its nothing but a list of upcoming stuff. Cant go wrong with that really.
I also just got a notice from amazon. Both, A thousand Sons and Solhunter (both were due out beginning of March) are supposed to be shipping December 22nd. Woot
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Post by: Kanluwen
Whoa. Soul Hunter comes out THIS month?
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Post by: Flachzange
Its what my amazon preorder says, yes!
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Post by: BrookM
We'll just have to see what happens when the new BL site goes live early 2010, though I've got a feeling BL will be keeping up the constant stream of Facebook posts and Tweets because it works so bloody well. But with their site back up again, at least we'll be getting a better preview of what's to come, with pictures!
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Post by: reds8n
reds8n wrote:
November :
Zombieslayer by Nathan Long
which I'm looking forward to already.
Got Sons of Dorn and Shadowking by the bedside, just finished Dark Creed, another cracking chaos book, with the Imperium giving as good as they get for once really. All 3 of the Word Bearer books are worth picking up if you're a chaos fan.
1
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Post by: Flachzange
Still waiting for Dark Creed sadly, but I absolutely agree with you. Great series! I have really enjoyed the first two.
Finally got through my finals, so I now actually have the time to read some of the books Ive been getting lately lol
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Post by: BrookM
I'm still waiting for Maelstrom to send me Shadow King sadly.
I did finally get to read Innocence Proves Nothing. A fun read, but Sandy sucks at making you feel worried about his characters much. Great dialogue though, poor action sequences.
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Post by: Kanluwen
BrookM wrote:I'm still waiting for Maelstrom to send me Shadow King sadly.
I did finally get to read Innocence Proves Nothing. A fun read, but Sandy sucks at making you feel worried about his characters much. Great dialogue though, poor action sequences.
Waiting for Amazon to send me Shadow King here Love Alith-Anar's story, hoping it works out well.
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Post by: BrookM
I really enjoyed the first novel, can't see why people hate Gav so much.
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Post by: Thanatos_elNyx
reds8n wrote:
November :
Zombieslayer by Nathan Long
When are tehy going to bring out Snotlingslayer?
He has killed near everything else!
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Post by: Alpharius
Thanatos_elNyx wrote:reds8n wrote:
November :
Zombieslayer by Nathan Long
When are tehy going to bring out Snotlingslayer?
He has killed near everything else!
Good one!
I just laughed out loud, and got weird looks - but it was worth it!
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Post by: reds8n
1 3rd of the way through Shadow King now, and enjoying it very much.
Meanwhile..more covery goodness...
3
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Post by: Malika2
Oh my...now that;s a muscular Commissar, he kind of likes like the Kurgan from Highlander or Peter Steele from Type O Negative in a Commissar's uniform!
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Post by: Dark Lord Seanron
Woot! More Cain ^^
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Post by: Flachzange
Dark Lord Seanron wrote:Woot! More Cain ^^
qft
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Post by: Alpharius
Malika2 wrote:Oh my...now that;s a muscular Commissar, he kind of likes like the Kurgan from Highlander or Peter Steele from Type O Negative in a Commissar's uniform!
Possibly riffing on the theme of the series - the Imperial Truth vs. Reality?
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Post by: BrookM
I see BL is really milking Cain just like Gaunt. Ugh.
At least the Empire series is still being continued. It's okay so far, especially Reiksguard was good.
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Post by: Death By Monkeys
Yeah, but at least the Cain novels have a better sense of humor about themselves than the Gaunt novels do.
What's up with the combi-flamer in Firedrake? Where's the barrel for the bolter?
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Post by: reds8n
Yes it was wasn't it ?
I enjoyed Iron Company too, although that was a little more predictable.
I think with the Cain covers are indeed supposed to be overly muscled and a tip o' the hat to Conan et al as an added joke given the characters actual cowardice and self interest.
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Post by: BrookM
The Cain covers are supposed to be the sort of propaganda that lies about the man. Cain is made more muscular and his laspistol is replaced by a bolter to make him stand out more as the so-called Hero of the Imperium. I wouldn't call Cain a coward though, in the end, yawn, his intentions are noble and not always self-serving. Sandy can write fun dialogue but his action sequences are rather dull and not exciting one bit, same with his Dark Heresy novels really: great setting and fun word bubbles, but meh on the action.
I found Iron Company okay, if a bit too predictable and a bit hmm, odd. The ideas were sound, but too cliché in the end.
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Post by: reds8n
Not BL/ GW as such, but there's an interview with James Swallow about writing tie in fiction and novelisations here.
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Post by: BrassScorpion
A Thousand Sons (Horus Heresy)
(Mass Market Paperback)
416 pages
$8.99 on Amazon.com, eligible for free shipping
Release date is somewhere between late Feb. to early March.
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Post by: reds8n
..hell yeah...
1
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Post by: skrulnik
That cover is awesome.
What is the story about?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
It looks like a Custodes and a possessed Word Bearer.
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Post by: Platuan4th
Death By Monkeys wrote:What's up with the combi-flamer in Firedrake? Where's the barrel for the bolter?
It's above the Flame nozzle. It only looks confusing, because the nozzle's guard extends up to cover the barrel. That weird cutaway curve at the top is where the barrel, you can see the tip pointing out.
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Post by: BrookM
reds8n wrote:..hell yeah...
I liked his Cadians novel, I hated his Crimson Fists short where you had really young astartes doing grown up stuff. I'm not sure what to make of this.
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Post by: skrulnik
BrookM wrote:reds8n wrote:..hell yeah...
I liked his Cadians novel, I hated his Crimson Fists short where you had really young astartes doing grown up stuff. I'm not sure what to make of this.
Didn't read that. But did you ever read Ender's Game? It worked for that story.
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Post by: Scottywan82
Must know what first Heretic is about.....
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Post by: Kanluwen
We don't know full details--yet.
Aaron's keeping it quiet, and it's really only in its first few incarnations.
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Post by: Death By Monkeys
Any word on when we can finally see Abnett's "Interceptor City"?
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Post by: Kanluwen
The last reference I can see to "Interceptor City" is February 29, 2008. And that was Dan saying it'd be coming our way in "a year or so".
Might just have gotten lost in the press, or they decided not to release it.
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Post by: Ozymandias
What's "Interceptor City"?
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Post by: Kanluwen
The planned sequel to Double Eagle.
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Post by: Ozymandias
Ah, that's one of books I planned to read but still haven't...
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Post by: Kanluwen
It wasn't bad. I particularly liked the fact that Halo Flight came back, and the snippets of the Chaos fliers' perspectives.
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Post by: Death By Monkeys
Double Eagle's got a very WWII feel to it. Think Battle of Britain. I think it's got the quality of the early Gaunt books - i.e. it doesn't have the baggage of the collective characters bearing it down like the newer Gaunt books do. I try to keep an eye on the progress of Interceptor City, but as Kanluwen pointed out, there's been no fresh intel on it since Feb 2008.
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Post by: Savnock
Yeah, Double Eagle had a refreshing focus more on the battle itself than on the emo characters involved. It did have very clear Battle of Britain analogies, and a really, really awesome take on a neglected aspect of 40K warfare (the air war).
Inspired me to buy a squad of Thunderbolts, in fact, made by a certain mad converter with a simian name And then a wing of Eldar Nightwings, also kitbashed. And a Phoenix. And maybe a few Chaos flyers, if anyone feels like making some up for a profit (hint, hint).
Anyways, like Titanicus filled in a lot of blanks for the Titan Legions, Double Eagle does for flyers. Highly recommended for anyone who reads all the IA battle books cover to cover, or even just loves old WWII Time-Life air-war pictorials.
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Post by: Fallen668
Double Eagle makes me want to get a dozen Thunderbolts and do the entire Phantine XX. Maybe tack on a Marauder and call it a day.
I love me some airplanes.
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Post by: Fateweaver
I thought Cadian Blood was good.
I have enjoyed the HH series immensely. A few not so good titles but overall very good reads. Cain novels I like for the grimdark humor.
I'm looking forward to that "First Heretic". Should be good.
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Post by: BrookM
First Heretic, if the cover is any indication, will be about the Word Bearers and in particular that prick whose name I can't remember who set up the Warrior Lodges and stole the evil plague sword to poison Horus with. He was more or less the guy responsible for a lot.
As for Interceptor City, it has been pushed back so Dan could write more Ghost novels obviously.
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Post by: reds8n
That was Erebus I believe. However I'm fairly certain it was Kor Phaeron who was the main driving force behind them moving to chaos worship.
..but of course he might have learnt it off of someone else.
I'd thought that this book might be about the Word Bearer members stationed on Terra, the 5th column so to speak, but the moons (?) in the background suggest otherwise. I'm also assuming, given the colour scheme, that this event must be at least partially set post "Battle for the Abyss".
...he must be a possessed marine yes ?
1
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Post by: Flachzange
BL put up a "trailer" for Thousand Sons/Prospero Burns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viFLhyJXqNQ
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Post by: Fateweaver
Yeah, I'm super stoked about the next two books. I see myself doing an all night reading marathon when those 2 hit shelves.
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Post by: Lord of battles
I just checked the Black Library website and noticed a bunch of new good looking books:
Next October: Aenarion by Gav Thorpe, the last of the sundering books!
and November: The First Heretic by Aaron Dembski-Bowden a hourus heresy book (go to the site to see the awesome cover)
Check it out
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Post by: BrookM
Steve Lyons is doing a Krieg novel. Great, another regiment ruined by him. 
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
Not sure if this has been brought up but could the main character killed in Swallows book be Night Haunter?
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Post by: AJCarrington
BrotherStynier wrote:Not sure if this has been brought up but could the main character killed in Swallows book be Night Haunter?
Excellent suggestion - I certainly hope so. Not too sure how keen I am on Swallow being the author - I've found his stuff a little "hit and miss".
AJC
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Post by: Alpharius
AJCarrington wrote:BrotherStynier wrote:Not sure if this has been brought up but could the main character killed in Swallows book be Night Haunter?
Excellent suggestion - I certainly hope so. Not too sure how keen I am on Swallow being the author - I've found his stuff a little "hit and miss".
AJC
To say the least!
His BA stuff is horrible, but his HH stuff is actually among his best...
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Post by: Asherian Command
XD. well that makes no sense.
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Post by: lords2001
If they are working on any sort of order, then this won't be anything about the killing of Night Haunter - that happened well after the Heresy.
From the bio, it looks like it will be about a different perspective with 2 assassins at loose - one to kill the Warmaster, the other trying to kill the Emperor.
Could be a good look, and we could even get a better look at more of the [fail]Praetorians[/end fail] Custodians - one of the better written parts of Tales of Heresy.
Edit : fail on the name of the Custodians - thanks BrookM. Too much Roman imagery for this former history student, obviously.
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Post by: BrookM
I think you mean Custodians.
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Post by: Cryonicleech
For all those complaining about the rumored Ultramarines Trilogy, I'd personally love to read it.
I mean, come on! 3 books purely about the Ultramarines constantly getting their assess handed to them is too good to miss!
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Post by: Flachzange
Cryonicleech wrote:For all those complaining about the rumored Ultramarines Trilogy, I'd personally love to read it.
I mean, come on! 3 books purely about the Ultramarines constantly getting their assess handed to them is too good to miss!
That my friend, can only happen in some sort of alternate universe
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Post by: BrookM
I do enjoy the filling of the blanks that the HH books full fill. Here's hoping that McNeill writes them, he does good Astartes novels and his Ventris saga so far is very enjoyable. I can't wait for June to pop up so I can read the paperback of Courage and Honour.
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Post by: reds8n
Lord of battles wrote:
Next October: Aenarion by Gav Thorpe, the last of the sundering books!
Actually this is an audiobook, I don't think it's part of the Sundering Trilogy at all, I believe that is about, and perhaps called, Caledor.
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Post by: BrookM
I don't care what it's called, I just want to read the conclusion damn it! I really enjoyed Shadow King and Alith in particular. Oh well, at least we'll be getting the second Nagash novel soon, I really enjoyed the first one, it was what drew me into reading the other Time of Legend novels as well.
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Post by: reds8n
I thought Shadow King was Mr. Thorpe's strongest work to date, I enjoyed the proper extra "chunky" feel and look of the book too. Making for a dandy background with calendar too as it happens.
He's also doing a Dark Angels book about the Piscina campaign/elements thereof for the Space marines Battles series AFAIK.
I believe there's some yet to be announced Graham McNeill chaos book or story of some sort as well we've yet to hear about.
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Post by: BrookM
At first I was annoyed that such a large part of the novel was spent as a recap for the coming plot, but qwhen things kicked off they put some great things in motion, pity that is has to end on such a cliff hanger.
As for a Piscina novel: I'd love that, maybe we'll get a revisit of chaplain Boreas. I'd also like to learn more about Naaman during the campaign.
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Post by: lords2001
BrookM wrote:I don't care what it's called, I just want to read the conclusion damn it! I really enjoyed Shadow King and Alith in particular. Oh well, at least we'll be getting the second Nagash novel soon, I really enjoyed the first one, it was what drew me into reading the other Time of Legend novels as well.
Shadow King is out where you are? I believe we are still waiting for it to come here in OZ. Either that, or GW stores hide it when I go in. And yes, the Nagash series was great, if quite choppy - but I really enjoyed the extra length - its one of about 5 books in total from BL where you really get some length in it (Titanicus, I'm looking at you). Much more satisfying than the Sigmar series, where the plot is - Early fight, minor storyline/backfill, plot thickens, minor fight, more plot thickening/betrayal, final fight against something.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Shadowking is definitely out!
And it would appear the third book in The Sundering is entitled Aenarion, which has got me all excited!
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Post by: lords2001
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Shadowking is definitely out!
And it would appear the third book in The Sundering is entitled Aenarion, which has got me all excited!
Nice.
Though just quickly, I know I'm not across all of the Fantasy history as well as I could be - I would have said should be, but I realised I didn't want to be THAT much of a nerd - where is a good place to get a proper overview of the various times/races fantasy history? The old edition codex/s? The Black Library stuff doesn't seem to cover much of it.
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Post by: reds8n
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Shadowking is definitely out!
And it would appear the third book in The Sundering is entitled Aenarion, which has got me all excited!
.. no..that's an audio book. As stated the third book... which if you've read the previous two is kind of obvious..is both called about and mainly concerns Caledor see the post here .
Meanwhile some more of the artwork for Helsreach and the Hunt for Voldorious
2
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
What's with all the stupid looking weapons they've been drawing lately?
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Post by: BrookM
BL has been hiring artists who have no prior history with the hobby. Hence the abysmal power armour and the very ugly sci-fi bolter designs. edit. Though BL or whoever at GW is partially to blame for those things. This is the first Daemon Prince design for the horrible Boom Comics Black Templar series:  It was rejected because it didn't look very 40k. Instead they told him to draw it like this: 
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Post by: Malika2
I liked the first daemon prince better.
I actually like the different bolter designs. Basically shows that there are more patterns out there than the Godwin (sp?) of the 3rd edition model.
I'm more curious about the vehicles on that picture, what are they? Those tanks look weird and is that a Thunderhawk in the air?
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Post by: Alpharius
I'm guessing that the weird looking vehicles and the pseudo-Thunderhawk are once again due to artists not familiar with the 40K universe being hired to design book covers and then, when the work is turned in (paid for), someone with approval power says either "Close enough!" or "Good enough!"...
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Post by: Kanluwen
Alpharius wrote:I'm guessing that the weird looking vehicles and the pseudo-Thunderhawk are once again due to artists not familiar with the 40K universe being hired to design book covers and then, when the work is turned in (paid for), someone with approval power says either "Close enough!" or "Good enough!"...
When is the book set?
Pre or Post-Heresy?
Pre-Heresy: it's quite likely a Stormbird rather than interpretive licensing.
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Post by: reds8n
Mr. Thorpe has said the following about his Piscina book " The Purging of Kadillus"
Purging of Kadillus is a sort of prequel to Angels of Darkness in that it takes place before those events on Piscina, and some of the characters feature in both, but that's about the only narrative link between the two. If anything, the characters from AoD are included to show what they were like before being left to their own devices for a few years...
The basic story is based on the Storm of Vengeance campaign pack, so while the original gaming campaign of Andy and Pete and co had Harbingers and all sorts of other forces featured, the novel revolves around DA, Piscina PDF and the orkses.
That's all I'm prepared to say at the moment (I've only just started writing it!) but there'll be more on Mechanical Hamster nearer release.
Cheers,
GAV
PS Naaman will kick some orky bottom, that's for sure.
I've got "Rynn's World" , the first in the Space Marine Battles series, haven't cracked it open yet, reading Black Tide first, but it is a very nicely put together book, proper chunky feel to it.Looking forward to it.
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Post by: Carnuscaedes
avantgarde wrote:The twist is at the very end when the Emperor is about to strike down Horus, Horus wakes up and it was all a dream and the events that transpired are false.
Could be... sounds like a horrible rehash of "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge" by Ambrose Bierce I would laugh out aloud if so... then cry.
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Post by: Alpharius
Kanluwen wrote:Alpharius wrote:I'm guessing that the weird looking vehicles and the pseudo-Thunderhawk are once again due to artists not familiar with the 40K universe being hired to design book covers and then, when the work is turned in (paid for), someone with approval power says either "Close enough!" or "Good enough!"...
When is the book set?
Pre or Post-Heresy?
Pre-Heresy: it's quite likely a Stormbird rather than interpretive licensing.
I'm pretty sure it is post-Heresy and it is a more detailed telling of the story that's in the current Space Marine codex in which the White Scars and the Raven Guard build bridges and repair the strained relationship between their two chapters while hunting down a Daemon Prince...
I think!
So, interpretive licensing for the... win?
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Post by: lords2001
Could this picture possibly be a rendition of the new Blood Angels lander we have all been hearing about?
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Post by: jerbear1071
lords2001 wrote:Could this picture possibly be a rendition of the new Blood Angels lander we have all been hearing about?
more than liekly it's either a misguided attempt at a T-hawk or the older version in the heresy books called a Stormbird that some fluff has chapters still using.
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Post by: Flachzange
According to BL Facebook, Prospero Burns will now be published in Jan 2011 due do Dans health issues. Heres the quote:
Due to author Dan Abnett’s health issues, the Horus Heresy novel Prospero Burns will now be published in Jan 2011. This novel chronicles the epic story of the Space Wolves and their dire battle with the Thousand Sons. It provides a counterpoint to A Thousand Sons, which tells the story from the Traitor Legion’s perspective and is published in March 2010. The Horus Heresy series continues to go from strength-to-strength throughout 2010, with three major new novels and three original audio dramas. For a full list of 2010 titles please visit the Black Library website at www.blacklibrary.com
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Post by: JHall
Oops, edited previous post. Looks like I missed a post on Dan's blog about health issues. Sorry, I guess there is a reason the BL is posting that!
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Post by: Flachzange
I hear ya I think this was rather ... unexpected.
Whatever the reasons though, I hope he'll be fine
Thousand sons will be released anyways, which Im not gonna read until and can get my hands on prospero burns. I wanne read em back to back.
second edit: really? huh, i must have missed it as well.
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Post by: JHall
What I don't understand is this book has to be done. BL has it down for a March 30 release on Amazon. As someone who worked in the publishing industry for years, there is no way that book is not in the can already. So I am not sure why they would push it back a full year unless something major needed redone on it. It all just seems very odd...
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Post by: Chamleoneyes
Any idea when the HH Thousand Sons books are being released?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ooops just saw the above posts, my bad. :-)
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Post by: Balance
JHall wrote:What I don't understand is this book has to be done. BL has it down for a March 30 release on Amazon. As someone who worked in the publishing industry for years, there is no way that book is not in the can already. So I am not sure why they would push it back a full year unless something major needed redone on it. It all just seems very odd...
Amazon is somewhat infamous for 'aggressive' release dates on upcoming products...
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Post by: BrookM
No offence but it sounds like a sneaky ploy to me.
Again, no offence and I wish Dan the best.
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Post by: Alpharius
Have to agree...
For a book that was due to ship in Q1 of 2010, this is very odd.
Dan is usually pretty forthcoming on his website, maybe he'll shed some light there eventually?
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Post by: BrookM
What we're having here is a big build of hype I guess. Graham suckers us in, we're forced to wait a year because all the clones are ill.
However, when looking at the BL releases for this year, Prospero Burns is the only real title Dan would be doing this year, the rest is reprint from hardback releases.
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Post by: twistinthunder
does anybody know what the 4th space marines battle novel is going to be?
also what do you guys think of rynn world? (i think its awesome so far..)
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Post by: Alpharius
twistinthunder wrote:does anybody know what the 4th space marines battle novel is going to be?
also what do you guys think of rynn world? (i think its awesome so far..)
I hear the BL's lack of editing strikes again (two different numbers of survivors listed) and that it lacks much tension, since we already 'know' what happens...
I'm waiting for a few more reviews before deciding on whether or not to purchase...
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Post by: BrookM
I'm not a fan of Steve Parker myself, I might pick it up later. As for the second novel, Hellsreach, it depends on whether or not Soul Hunter will be a blast to read. Will find out tonight, after I finish A Thousand Sons.
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Post by: lord marcus
i can't wait for the second nagash book.
in regards to shadow king, i would kill ot be able ot draw the scene at the end where alith steps out of the darkness with wolves prowling around him.
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Post by: pinhead
BrookM wrote:I'm not a fan of Steve Parker myself, I might pick it up later. As for the second novel, Hellsreach, it depends on whether or not Soul Hunter will be a blast to read. Will find out tonight, after I finish A Thousand Sons.
How did you get A Thousand Sons? I thought it wasn't going to be published until March....
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Post by: BrookM
pinhead wrote:BrookM wrote:I'm not a fan of Steve Parker myself, I might pick it up later. As for the second novel, Hellsreach, it depends on whether or not Soul Hunter will be a blast to read. Will find out tonight, after I finish A Thousand Sons.
How did you get A Thousand Sons? I thought it wasn't going to be published until March....
I attended the Dutch GD, where they had it on early sale.
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Post by: lords2001
Black Library often puts a release date on books either during or even before the writing has actually begun. From what I've seen with Aaron DB (the Cadian Blood writer whose name will not be spelt) he basically either gets given an idea, or puts forward a proposal, a short bit is written and reviewed along with the usual meetings, then a date for publishing is given out, giving them X months to finish the writing and get it to the editor/printers.
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Post by: BrookM
Which makes the stuff surrounding Dan a wee bit fishy if you ask me, again no insult or harm meant to Dan. Graham's book is supposed to be released this March, though they're already selling advance copies. So wouldn't it be a safe bet to assume that Dan's book is also done around now, seeing as it was supposed to go up for sale this April?
And I've had Aaron Dembski-Bowden sign my books. Nice guy, his girlfriend and one of the BL attendees joked about the slow speed at which he was doing his autograph, predicting a big problem for him when he's supposed to sign copies of the First Heretic later this year.
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Post by: Manchu
@Brook: What would the motive be for not releasing Propsero Burns this year?
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Post by: BrookM
Building hype? A Thousand Sons is so far a great read and when a two-parter starts off strong you most certainly want to know how it's going to end.
But again, this could just me looking for silly things, nor do I want to make it sound like Dan's condition is being questioned here.
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Post by: Manchu
I don't think your questioning the truth about Mr. Abnett's health and I wasn't trying to imply it. I agree that the book is most likely done (like you said, you are currently reading A Thousand Sons which the rest of us don't get until March--and is your copy in Dutch?) and genuinely wanted to know what your suspicion was.
I don't think "building hype" makes much sense. Everyone who is likely to read the book had been extremely excited about it for a long time before the release date was pushed back.
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Post by: BrookM
No, it's in English, we thankfully do not translate everything into Dutch, because unlike the rest of Europe, we get English as standard course material.
It just screams odd to me that they decide to push it back a full year, Prospero Burns was Dan's only big thing for BL this year, not sure what other projects he has running alongside all of this, but for BL he had just this.
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Post by: Manchu
I agree it's weird. I just can't think of any reason for it except his health. He can't do a publicity tour?
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Post by: BrookM
Aye, there is that. He does a lot of those every year for the BL, both inside and out the UK.
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Post by: Therion
No, it's in English, we thankfully do not translate everything into Dutch, because unlike the rest of Europe, we get English as standard course material.
It's only the German and French speaking states that try to act like the English language doesn't exist.
The Nemesis book sounds interesting. I enjoyed 'Legion' a lot and would like the rest of the books to have more mystery and secrets to them too.
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Post by: Manchu
Therion wrote:It's only the German and French speaking states that try to act like the English language doesn't exist..
How fortunate that I studied German and French. TBH, however, I would have preferred Finnish!
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Post by: Scottywan82
BrookM wrote:No, it's in English, we thankfully do not translate everything into Dutch, because unlike the rest of Europe, we get English as standard course material.
It just screams odd to me that they decide to push it back a full year, Prospero Burns was Dan's only big thing for BL this year, not sure what other projects he has running alongside all of this, but for BL he had just this.
He is also currently the writer for Marvel's Realm of Kings series, so he may be occupied with that.
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Post by: BrookM
Dan also launched a new series late last year, something swashbuckling and Victorian.
Heh, mister Aaron D-B certainly had a way of signing his novels. He signed mine with a "Hi Melvin, this is the first one I've signed...", the second novel, for someone else with a "Dear stranger, Hi. How are you? I am fine. A bit hungry." while another Dutch attendee had "I had to sign it. its the law." written in his book.
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Post by: Kanluwen
He's just a bit cheeky, isn't he?
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Post by: reds8n
BrookM wrote:Dan also launched a new series late last year, something swashbuckling and Victorian.
.
Triumff : Her majesty's hero.
It's a fun read too, kind of a mix between Black Adder and the early Red Dwarf novels.
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Post by: Ozymandias
Well I loved the Red Dwarf novels so I may need to look into this new Abnett series.
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Post by: twistinthunder
Alpharius wrote:twistinthunder wrote:does anybody know what the 4th space marines battle novel is going to be?
also what do you guys think of rynn world? (i think its awesome so far..)
I hear the BL's lack of editing strikes again (two different numbers of survivors listed) and that it lacks much tension, since we already 'know' what happens...
I'm waiting for a few more reviews before deciding on whether or not to purchase...
people are making a big fuss over the rynns guard thinking thres 218 left and kantor KNOWNING theres 318 left 20 pages later, it's simple really cause the rynnsguard think all the marines are left but you told there are some offworld.
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Post by: reds8n
Some nice ideas from Mr. McNeill
Dan and I have talked at a bit about how we get together with the other authors and editors to plan out the kinds of stories and characters we want to tell, the wheres the whys and the whos, but today I’m going to take a meandering look at the first meeting we had. Why? Well because that’s the one where we laid out the rough shape of the playground and some of its basic rules in which those stories would operate. The High Lord of Terra (previously encountered as Alan) spoke to a crowded room of writers and editors about what the crucial differences were between the Heresy era (30K) and the Age of the Imperium (40K). As you might imagine, this turned into a very long day, with a million and one ideas born in that melting pot. But crucially, the best thing we took from that meeting wasn’t specific storylines, but the mood and feel of the place. Where 40K is a shabby palace with shuttered rooms and dusty white sheets covering the furniture, inhabited by faded ghosts and ancient old men, 30K was going to be the first days of that palace, where armies of servants threw open the windows to let the light in, and the owners were stepping into their new home with boundless enthusiasm to admire the crisp new décor.
This is key to what made the stories different, made them special. It’s what separates them from 40K books by more than just the names and the characters, it’s what let’s you know you’re not reading a 40K book, you’re reading a Horus Heresy book. We wanted readers to know they were reading a 30K novel as soon as they opened the book and read its first few pages. To that end we looked at what 40K was, how it came to be the way it is and what probably existed before. The early days of the Great Crusade were a time of hope, optimism and enlightenment, were humanity had stared into the abyss of extinction and was about to leap in when the Emperor pulled it back at the last moment. That’s not to say it was the happy family of the Federation of Planets, not even close. Unity had a painful birth, but one that showed the vast majority of people all they could achieve if they just embraced it. Not only that, but there was actual hope that the things humanity aspired to achieve could actually be reached. The light at the end of the tunnel wasn’t a speeding train, it was the promise of an empire of mankind based on learning, growth and progression.
(That’s an idea I went back to explore in Mechanicum, the notion that the Priesthood of Mars were on the brink of changing from a monolithic organisation built on tradition and repetition to one of exploration, discovery and scientific advancement. This borrowed from the conceit that science has freed us from so much pain and death, but also has the potential to destroy us all – either in the fires of awesomely destructive weaponry, or the more Lovecraftian realisation of our own utter insignificance amid terrifying vistas of infinity. That change could have made all the difference to the future course of the Imperium, but, alas, it wasn’t to be.)
Of course no empires are ever built without bloodshed, and that’s where the Astartes come in. The Astartes are warriors so far removed from humanity that they are, for all intents and purposes, no longer human. Astartes were always going to be at the core of the Horus Heresy story, as the rebellion began as an inter-legion civil war and spread from there. But it was always going to be more than that. It was going to be about people and what it meant for them. In 40K, the people of the Imperium are little more than footnotes, tally marks on a bureaucrat’s ledger, resources to be expended and tithes to be claimed. Whole worlds can vanish, in the fires of invasion or in clerical typo in the dusty halls of the Administratum. It’s a cruel place, a dark place, a place you would never, ever, want to visit. Human life is cheap, and it’s the one currency the Imperium has in almost limitless abundance. And it’s not shy about spending it. We often throw civilians into the mix of 40K novels and then horribly slaughter thousands of them, but they’re little more than straw men to be cut down in droves to show the awfulness of the galaxy. In short, they often don’t matter.
That’s not the case In 30K. People do matter. When people die in 30K it matters because they’re the ones building the Imperium, the ones spreading out into the stars to reclaim what was lost in the hell of Old Night (a lovely term coined by Mr Abnett, I believe). And talking of people brings me to the remembrancers, another great invention that feels wholly natural in the broad tapestry of the Heresy books. No, these guys and girls aren’t genetically-engineered post humans with biceps like boulders and guns that are basically rocket launchers, they’re just fleshy bags of meat and blood that break easily. And that’s what makes them compelling characters to add to the mix of a Heresy novel. In 30K we see interaction between humans and Astartes through their eyes. It’s still a big deal for mortals to be around Astartes, to meet and talk to them, but it happens. They can even become friends. Just look at Loken and Karkasy, Ahriman and Lemuel (what do you mean you haven’t read A Thousand Sons yet? Okay, okay…I’ll talk about that tomorrow…). The point is, that the horrible divisions wracking 40K haven’t yet split the Imperium into its factionalised state. Mortals still matter to Astartes, and the two exist, side by side, in a – more or less – united front in 30K. All that is lost when the Astartes make war on one another. The bond of trust between humanity and the Astartes is severed, and no-one will ever look at them in the same way again. Gav Thorpe’s excellent audio drama, Raven’s Flight, explores this idea more fully, so if you haven’t already checked it out, do so with all possible speed.
To my mind, it’s the humanity that makes 30K such a sea change from 40K. People care about things that you and I can identify with. Happiness is a possibility in 30K, where in 40K you’re every waking moment is concerned with worshipping the Emperor, working in whatever hellish manufactory you’re stuck in or worrying about being killed by a daemon, xenos beast, piratical raider or even your own rulers. It’s a world where everyone lives in fear, and conventional wisdom tells us that fearful populaces are easier to control. I imagine it’s like living under the constant surveillance of the Stasi or KGB, compared to living in a utopian society where the human spirit is to be celebrated, not crushed. Not a fun place to be.
The Heresy is, as has been said many times, a tragedy, an epic fall from grace brought about by the fatal flaw of its protagonist. But it’s about so much more than just Horus’s downfall, it’s about the terrible waste of a wonderful idea that never came to fruition. Who knows what might have been achieved if Horus hadn’t been seduced by Chaos, or if the Astartes hadn’t turned on one another like rabid dogs. The ultimate success of the Emperor’s grand dream was within touching distance when it was snatched away. You could see it, you could smell it, but just as you were reaching for it, a clawed hand snatched it away and smashed it into pieces that can never be put back together, no matter how hard you try. You might have all the broken shards, but without the glue to hold it in place, you’re always having to stand there holding it so it doesn’t fall apart again. And that’s not progress, that’s stagnation. The watchword for 40K.
30K is progress, 40K is stagnation. That’s about all I need to say.
linky
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Post by: Alpharius
twistinthunder wrote:Alpharius wrote:twistinthunder wrote:does anybody know what the 4th space marines battle novel is going to be?
also what do you guys think of rynn world? (i think its awesome so far..)
I hear the BL's lack of editing strikes again (two different numbers of survivors listed) and that it lacks much tension, since we already 'know' what happens...
I'm waiting for a few more reviews before deciding on whether or not to purchase...
people are making a big fuss over the rynns guard thinking thres 218 left and kantor KNOWNING theres 318 left 20 pages later, it's simple really cause the rynnsguard think all the marines are left but you told there are some offworld.
While I appreciate the effort to defend Black Library's 'editing', that one seems a bit leaky.
Still, maybe you're right!
Maybe GW and BL finally realize that a competent editor is a... good thing!
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Post by: BrookM
Alpharius wrote:twistinthunder wrote:Alpharius wrote:twistinthunder wrote:does anybody know what the 4th space marines battle novel is going to be?
also what do you guys think of rynn world? (i think its awesome so far..)
I hear the BL's lack of editing strikes again (two different numbers of survivors listed) and that it lacks much tension, since we already 'know' what happens... I'm waiting for a few more reviews before deciding on whether or not to purchase...
people are making a big fuss over the rynns guard thinking thres 218 left and kantor KNOWNING theres 318 left 20 pages later, it's simple really cause the rynnsguard think all the marines are left but you told there are some offworld.
While I appreciate the effort to defend Black Library's 'editing', that one seems a bit leaky. Still, maybe you're right! Maybe GW and BL finally realize that a competent editor is a... good thing!
It's not that bad, just look at the written sections of an Imperial Armour book, though Warwick is finally getting the hang of spinning a good yarn. Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, BL announces they have a new logo: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2CJ2DgXAD9Q/S2LcKNFUA0I/AAAAAAAAAIs/XlAknY13l3M/s1600-h/logo2%5B2%5D.jpg
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Post by: Alpharius
I just had a chance to read that link...
And my irony meter borke again!
GM wrote:
30K is progress, 40K is stagnation. That’s about all I need to say.
40K is stagnation.
Indeed.
Wake up GW!
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Post by: Ostrakon
Alpharius wrote:I just had a chance to read that link...
And my irony meter borke again!
GM wrote:
30K is progress, 40K is stagnation. That’s about all I need to say.
40K is stagnation.
Indeed.
Wake up GW!
Uh, I thought that was the whole point of 40k. It's exactly what it says it is : In the grim darkness of blah blah blah, there is only war.
And every BL book opens with a short segment about how crappy it is to be a human. It's not exactly trying to hide the fact.
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Post by: Alpharius
You're missing the irony I was implying in that statement...
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Post by: BrookM
The more 30k I read, the sadder I feel about it really. The Imperium could've been so much more if it wasn't for a few that influenced it all so greatly. A Thousand Sons in particular is another one of those tragic entries, though it is one fuelled by hubris and stupid pride.
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Post by: reds8n
More from the guest blogging
Yesterday I talked about the feel of how we approached writing stories set during the Horus Heresy, what made them different and how we made sure you knew you were reading one when you picked it up. Today I’m going to take a look at how they informed the writing of A Thousand Sons, my latest Heresy novel. All sounds very academic, doesn’t it, but trust me, it’s just me looking at why A Thousand Sons was such a fun novel to write and why you’ll enjoy it so much.
The Razing of Prospero is one of the big boy events of the Heresy, a milestone in the road that you can’t ignore because it’s a gigantic, 2001-style slab of monolithic goodness. The rich seam of storytelling potential made it a juicy prospect, and after numerous monkey knife fights in the car part to sort out who got to tell it, Dan and myself stood triumphant. Afterwards, we both looked at each other warily, like two gunfighters waiting for the other to make his move. Slowly, and with infinite patience, Dan’s pen finger twitched and he said in a gravely baritone, “I don’t like Space Wolves.” I looked him up and down to see if this was an elaborate bluff, a sly way of putting me off balance, but no, he seemed serious.
“Fine,” I said. “I’ll write the Space Wolves side of things.”
“Well, okay then,” replied Dan. “I’ll do the Thousand Sons. It’s settled.”
“Yup, sure is.”
“Good.”
‘Uh-huh”
Except something strange happened next. We talked over the story of Prospero, examined the motives of the Thousand Sons and the Space Wolves, asked lots of awkward questions about the set-up and rationale behind some of the decisions the key players in this drama were making. Some of it didn’t make sense, or seemed, at the very least, wilfully dense. But the more we examined the story, turning it this way and that, the more we found hidden layers, secret possibilities and truths in the heart of each Legion we hadn’t suspected. Over the course of the afternoon, I could feel a sick feeling in my gut, knowing now that I wanted to tell the story of the Thousand Sons. I glanced over at Dan, thankfully seeing a similar uneasy cast to his features. Towards the end of the day we looked at each other.
Both of us spoke at the same time.
“Wanna switch?”
Okay, that’s not quite how it happened, but it’s not far off. The more we learned, the more we realised exactly how much we wanted to explore the legions we ended up writing about. And let me tell you, having read the first third or so of Prospero Burns, I’m immensely glad Dan’s doing the Space Wolf side of the equation. These are Wolves like you’ve never seen them, unlike any depiction you’ve ever seen. Yet they are utterly, absolutely recognisable as Space Wolves. Contradiction? Absolutely. And yet they’re spot on.
I set to work on A Thousand Sons a while ago, making sure I put plenty of time in up front to really get into the nuts and bolts of who the Thousand Sons were. What made them tick, how were they organised and what character would they have? I wanted to make them more than just a legion of Librarians. I wanted to give them a character unique amongst the Astartes, a character that was different in every way from the legions we’d seen before. I’d have failed if they ended up as a legion that fought and behaved like any other, with their only difference being that they wore red and shouted, “For Magnus!” instead of “For Horus!”
They needed to walk differently, talk differently, act differently and fight differently. After all, if you have access to all these funky psychic powers, you’re not going to just walk straight into the enemy’s gunfire, are you? You’re going to be cleverer than that. To that end, I put serious couch time into working out who these guys were, working out a back story for the legion and each of its captains that gave them flavour beyond anything that would appear in the book itself. More than just sorting the characters out for the synopsis, this meant coming up with battles they’d fought in, secrets they’d mastered, places they’d been and powers they’d employed. It took a while to get to a place I was happy with (as my editors can testify…), but it made the writing so much richer. I thought about the essence of their character, and looked beyond simply the Egyptian angle. Did I draw inspiration from that aspect? Of course, but I went beyond that. I drew in elements from Aztec, Khmer and all manner of esoteric cultures. After all, the idea of a legion like the Thousand Sons supping from only one cup of knowledge seemed absurd. There’s no such thing as too much knowledge to them.
All this paid off when I started writing the book, though it means I had lots of new concepts to get across very early in the book. I was showing each chapter to Dan as I went along, and, early on, he made the very excellent point that perhaps I shouldn’t try and explain all these new concepts, that perhaps – being a Thousand Sons novel, and therefore beholden to mysteries – it might be a good idea to throw those concepts out there and leave them unexplained and mysterious, to leave the reader in the same place as anyone encountering the Thousand Sons would be. A little bit wary, a little bit unsettled, and left with the feeling that they know fantastical secrets they’re not telling you. It was a simple change, but one that really informed the vibe of the book.
It also meant that for quite some time there wasn’t a shot fired in anger. A lot of the Heresy books start with a bang, well, several bangs, but it was many chapters in before someone even draws a pistol. At first I was a little worried about this. Was the book too slow, was it dragging its feet towards some action? The more I thought about this, the more I realised that it was exactly right that A Thousand Sons held back on its blazing bolters, as it fitted the character of the legion perfectly. These weren’t guys who went charging in with guns aflame and chainswords raised to hack the enemy down. These are warriors, yeah, but they’re also scholars who want to know things first. If they can lean from you before they have to kill you, then you best believe that’s what they’ll do. It also means it complements the character of the Space Wolves, killers who are the perfect weapon of destruction and a legion bred for devastation.
This isn’t a book about a legion that falls to Chaos, its one that takes a roundabout route there. Did the Thousand Sons jump or were they pushed? That’s one of the central questions of the Thousand Sons, and one I felt there was great dramatic potential to be mined in its exploration. I didn’t want to tell a story of madness and obsession leading to the dark place, I’d already done that with Fulgrim, this was going to be a story where I took characters who’ve been vilified over the years and bring them back to a place of understanding. To that end, I picked Ahriman as my main character, and over the course of the book, I came to really like him. I saw the hunger for knowledge in him that drove Magnus, but also the humility the primarch lacked. I invested more in Ahriman’s character so that when the fate of the legion is finally sealed, you’re left with the sinking feeling that it could all so easily have been avoided.
As I said yesterday, the mortal characters are important to what makes the Heresy tick, and A Thousand Sons is no exception. Again, Remembrancers play a big part in the story, though not in the same way as we’ve seen them before. These guys are, in their own way, questing for knowledge, but it’s knowledge the Thousand Sons would rather not be widely disseminated since it’s about them. Given their history with the Imperium and their near self-destruction, that’s understandable. Yet they can’t help but warm to their youthful questioning and this forges a bond that’s about as close to friendship as it’s possible for Astartes and mortals to form.
A Thousand Sons is a long book, the longest in the Heresy series so far, and there’s a lot going on. Some bits of it you know (or think you do) but lots of other bits are new. We see some new characters, some old ones and some scenes from ‘history’ in a new light. As is our mantra for the Heresy books, I’ve brought something new and surprising to the table, and taken what you’ve heard, what you think you know and given it an ever so slight tweak so that the convenient shapes you’ve been given just aren’t quite right.
And of course, it ends in a stonking great battle.
linky
25011
Post by: Bennan
BrookM wrote:The more 30k I read, the sadder I feel about it really. The Imperium could've been so much more if it wasn't for a few that influenced it all so greatly. A Thousand Sons in particular is another one of those tragic entries, though it is one fuelled by hubris and stupid pride.
I just recently picked up this series (books 1 and 2 have been read with the rest on order now).
I don't really agree about the "progress" part of 30k.
The imperex (interex?) that we meet at the end of the first book are the ideal humanity should be aiming for.
That empire was presented as peace loving yet would go to war if required, integrated with other races etc etc. In short that empire presented a pretty nice picture of an ideal society. And most importantly had built up a barrier to the forces of chaos (by barrier I mean they knew it for what it was and so denied it a foothold, thanks I assume to the Eldar).
Everything about the crusade in 30k is the exact opposite, and because of its very nature doomed to failure. The absolute extremes the Primarchs are as people, the wholesale practice of genocide is not progress.
The catch is that I have always looked upon the Emperor as an all powerful being, basically a God (or the next best thing to it). I feel he is aware of exactly what is going on and has the gift of foresight, so he knows exactly what is going to happen.
Perhaps for him to become a God he needs all this to take place as he has seen this is the only way to triumph against Chaos ?
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Post by: Kanluwen
GUYS! THERE'S A DEATH KORPS NOVEL COMING OUT!
http://www.blacklibrary.com/releases.php
Scroll down to December 2010.
Notice:
"Dead Men Walking". Click the image, and look above the magazine itself.
There's a piece of scrollwork saying "186th" and then below that, a Death Korps gas mask/stahlhelmet.
Awesome. This is gonna be a great year for Guard novels.
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Post by: Alpharius
Remains to be seen.
I wish you could just but the "It Has To Be Good!" stamp on all of BL's product, but they are nowhere near that level yet!
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Post by: Kanluwen
I beg to differ!
There's not a single "Multilazers!" Goto book anywhere to be seen.
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Post by: Death By Monkeys
Kanluwen wrote:GUYS! THERE'S A DEATH KORPS NOVEL COMING OUT!
http://www.blacklibrary.com/releases.php
Scroll down to December 2010.
Notice:
"Dead Men Walking". Click the image, and look above the magazine itself.
There's a piece of scrollwork saying "186th" and then below that, a Death Korps gas mask/stahlhelmet.
Awesome. This is gonna be a great year for Guard novels.
I just wish that non-serial Guard novels would start a little differently. I mean Death World, Fifteen Hours, and Gunheads all begin Is this something that GW has dictated has to happen with their IG novels? Does Cadian Blood or Rebel Winter start this way as well?
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