Okay, good; that makes things easier. I'm thinking that instead of 10 slugga/choppas with 1 rokkit and 1 nob, I'll change the rokkit to another slugga/choppa. It gets me to the 500 point limit, and honestly, I think it fits that squad better anyway. They're going in a trukk, so that's why I'm limiting that squad to 12.
Thanks for the help, all. I feel kind of selfish just asking questions and not offering much advice, but I've yet to actually play a game so there's not much I feel I'm qualified to offer.
Frozocrone wrote: 'Eavy armour on a blob of 30 footslogging boyz with Mad Dok attached to them (Fearless for dayz, unless a Painboy would be better). Yay or nay?
That is gonna be my strategy, I think. Orks are made to be numerous and expendable, and the heavy armor looks really expensive. Maybe if for some reason I had a smaller squad I'd consider it, like a bunch of boys riding in something fragile like a trukk.
I don't think I'd bother at any lower than that, best to try and fit as many Boyz on the field and overwhelm at that points level.
I'd probably just go with a Painboy without the 'Eavy armour
Makes the squad more durable without racking up the cost too much - depending on terrain and how spread out you can make the squad they would be very vulnerable to pie plates and 'Eavy armour wouldn't help that much as most of those weapons have a lower AP than 4.
I generally tend to agree, I think FNP is far superior to EArmour, I mean at a unit of 12+ the painboy is also cheaper. If you can get some coversaves or such like then you also save points there. However saying that, dependant on the rest of the list a large blob that is durable holding central control of the board might not be a bad idea
I ran 3 weirdboyz last night, my initial thoughts after the game were that they hadn't been worth it, but after some more thought I actually think they were. I rolled some pretty decent powers. One had Killbolt and power vomit, another had killbolt and warpath, the final had warpath and da jump.
I was generating 9+D6 dice and found that getting off 2-3 frazzles a turn + 2 killbolts easily made their points back. I killed 3 wraithblades with a killbolt just before charging into them, the softening up really helped me win the following combat. I will admit that weirdboyz are quite fragile. I mean in two games now i've had my weirdboyz die to perils. around turn 3 I moved up to power vomit 3 CSM havocs, I perils'ed rolled a 1, failed leadership and wiped the shoota boyz unit with 4 Str6 AP1 hits Although ofc the power vomit also wiped the remaining havocs. hilarious trade, but I think in that moment alone the weirdboy made his points back, not to mention all the other stuff he killed.
I think with Ork weirdboyz you have to not expect them to last the game. For 70 points you have some seriously potent dakka that you just need to unleash all over the enemy. I ran 2 weirdboyz in boyz units and the final in a busta's unit. So with 3 boyz squads at 1500 it became pretty difficult to prioritise targets, as each squad had a powerful toolkit with AP2 and AP3 spells, meaning they could all handle MEQ and even TEQ suitably.
I'd love a Wierdboy formation, making them ML3 or only rolling perils on sixes for the Daemonic Powers. I would totally try for hammerhand and have S5 boyz, tarpit and eventually kill that Wraithknight for days
Potentially, although OP hasn't been around for a while.
Got a dilemna, running Mogrok's Boyz (list in Army Lists) and I have an Outflanking Blitzabomber, although I'm contemplating switching them out for a Deffkopta and 5x Lobbas with Ammo Runts.
Main purpose would be barrage sniping and anti infantry while the Deffkopta can Scout up the Warboss if I roll infiltrate trait (Finkin Kap) and want to Infiltrate the bikes.
So I played my first game today. I used the list I posted here, despite the advice to get rid of the 5 stormboyz and give the nobs 'eavy armor. In retrospect, I should have done that, but the stormboyz just look so cool.
Anyway, it helped me learn a lot about the game, and also taught me that fighting against termies with +2 armor saves is really, really frustrating. Is there any sort of workaround for those?
Also, +4 cover saves are amazing. I didn't lose a single loota because I rolled 4+ at least 8 times when fired upon.
All in all, me and my teammate (also orks) lost, but it was a lot of fun. I now realize just how fragile trukks are, as it exploded bottom of turn 1, though I only lost a boy or two. Still, I know I'm hooked, so the next step is expanding my army. Any ideas where to go from here? I was thinking a heavier vehicle and, of course, more boyz.
I'll have to ask about Forgeworld next time I go down to the GW place. My plan honestly is to get enough boyz to punch through, but by the time the termies came down all we had left were our lootas and a weirdboy. They saved five times with that +2 save.
I think I'll probably start just getting more boyz, and probably more stormboyz to make them actually useful.
I currently play the dreamob formation but I am struggling to find the adequate support for it (in the form of a Cad).
How do support such kind of army?
If I can I try to keep with the theme (all armor): so for example vengeance battery as armored AA, but I don't find anything satisfying so far for taking care of the opponent backfield units.
Any suggestions ?
Vengeance batteries are simply terrible AA, as they just shoot at the nearest target (which probably won't be a flier).
You want a Firestorm Reboubt if you want an AA building.
You want lootas or tankbustas if you want decent AA Another option with AV is a dakkajet. Although, it's not terribly effective due to s6 ap4 and being an av10 flyer. However, it's 9-12 bs3 shots which is reasonable for it's price. Can force a jink.
As for buildings, i'm only aware of redoubt and gun emplacements that are not great.
Anywayz, you can always ally in daemons with a Mask to land fmc. And flyers are rather avoidable.
@vitaly
You need ap2. In the ork codex for ap2 your choices are: Blitza bomba, shokk attack gun, Kustom mega blasta/kannon/pistol, telleporta gun, bubble chukka, several weirdboy powers, smasha gun, and snazzguns 33% of the time for shooting. At merle you have: Powerklaw, killsaw at initiative 1 on tons of models, our walkers at initiative 2-4, Zagstrukk at initiative 10, and initiative 4 for the FW bikerboss.... Whose name I can't remember.... For no reason since I own him... So weird.
If I missed one let Vitaly know. Point is, Orcs can shred ap2 quite easily.
Vitali Advenil wrote:I'll have to ask about Forgeworld next time I go down to the GW place. My plan honestly is to get enough boyz to punch through, but by the time the termies came down all we had left were our lootas and a weirdboy. They saved five times with that +2 save.
I think I'll probably start just getting more boyz, and probably more stormboyz to make them actually useful.
Yep, Those 2+ saves can be a real pain. The best all rounder (IMO) is simply boyz squads with a nob with a PK and a mek. Its your bog standard unit, you let the boyz make base to base, the mek can take any challenges that you don't want and the nob is there to eat through the 2+ with his PK. Generally on the charge you should also generate enough attacks to kill 1-2 2+ simply through volume.
As for more direct units. KMK's will usually wipe a few 2+ a turn easily. They also have enough strength to ID multiwound models. Lootas will also force quite a few saves as generally termies are still T4, so your wounding easily enough; but typically i'd only shoot termies with them if they had no other useful targets.
XC18 wrote:I currently play the dreamob formation but I am struggling to find the adequate support for it (in the form of a Cad).
How do support such kind of army?
If I can I try to keep with the theme (all armor): so for example vengeance battery as armored AA, but I don't find anything satisfying so far for taking care of the opponent backfield units.
Any suggestions ?
What kind of backfield units? Infantry? I'd take lobba's. 48" range, NoLos required, barrage and with ammo runts. They can fire from turn 1, will fire every turn and will make their points back easily. As for backfield armour, i'd take lootas, again good range, good strength and can overwhelm even jinking units. Scouting/outflanking deffkoptas? low points cost and can help alleviate fire from your walkers as your opponent won't simply leave them taking pot shots at side/rear armour.
I actually find the vengeance batteries quite useful with a dreadmob army.
It's AV 14 sitting on objective, taking that down requires anti armor that is not targeting my dreads.
As for shooting, the limited target choice is during my shooting phase, not during interception shots. A smart player can position his model for less damage, true, but against 2 batteries on 2 different locations is less easy, and they always tend to forget after few turns.
Lootas are nice but any anti-infantery will wipe them turn one (thunderfire, wyvern...) cause no other target.
Yeah i am thinking of armor backfield or heavy infantery (centurions, broadside, thunderfire artillery...).
Hmm indeed koptas +busszaw could be a good solution, and help to grab objectifs .
Thx !
Outflanking rokkit buggies. They are TL, cheap and fast and still armour, although vunerable to bolter fire as only AV10.
------------------------------------------ Ladies and Gents, I need some advice on SAG bodyguards, I am going to run Mogrok, but using the 3 Bmeks as SAG's. So I want a cheap way to protect them;
What is most effective?
Grot blob - (so cheap wounds) behind an ADL? Get a cover save and I can take a few deaths before any LD checks. Lootas? - Just seems like you make them an even bigger priority this way. boyz blob - behind ADL? maybe bump to 12 dudes, benefit being T4 and the ability to roll mob rule?
Vitali Advenil wrote: I'll have to ask about Forgeworld next time I go down to the GW place.
Honestly, Battlewagons do the job just fine. They're fast, pretty durable and unload a lot of boyz and a lot of shots. I've had a lot of games where my battlewagons have been just driving round killing stuff even after delivering the unit inside, and if the battle goes badly, they're often the last thing on the board. Remember vehicles can take objectives, which is really useful in such situations.
Vitali Advenil wrote: I'll have to ask about Forgeworld next time I go down to the GW place.
Honestly, Battlewagons do the job just fine. They're fast, pretty durable and unload a lot of boyz and a lot of shots. I've had a lot of games where my battlewagons have been just driving round killing stuff even after delivering the unit inside, and if the battle goes badly, they're often the last thing on the board. Remember vehicles can take objectives, which is really useful in such situations.
Wagons are a solid choice, but can get a little pricey.
I did a review of Ork transport options a little while back here, including the FW stuff.
grendel083 wrote:I find a battery of KMB is a nice bunker for a SAG.
They share similar targets, and the Mek gets a nice toughness boost.
Yeh KMK's are good, as T7 and such. But my aim was to try and get Output saturation. I wanted to be able to drop 3 SAG shots onto the enemy alongside 2-3 weirdboyz.
However, going off what you just said;
2 lobbas - 4 extra grots and 2 ammo runts.
At the price of about 60 points I gain T7 and 8 wounds. Stick that behind an ADL, the lobbas will have the range to hit anything the SAG can, it will assist in anytime I shoot at infantry and a couple extra side hits on vehicles is always a nice bonus Secondly, if they are all hiding out of LOS I can still shoot the lobbas anyway.
hmm I actually really like that idea. Cheap, T7 and still has almost as many wounds as a boyz mob.
Just a reminder that small blast templates are primarily taken to be a range of influence threat to anything considering a DS shooting attack. Most opponents can outplay them by spreading out proper. My pie plate of choice are the sag mek and the killkannon (ap3).
Overwhelm 2+ saves with any of the many ways orkz have to throw handfuls of dice at stuff(loota, and shoota, or just run sluggish boyz into it). Nothing worse than going through the effort of having AP2 fire at a 2+ just to have the opponent take a cover save anyways.
Shoot AV with tankbusta, assault AV14 with tankbusta, shoot FMC with tankbusta, assault MC with tankbusta, shoot marines with tankbusta. Take 30 tankbusta. My opinions.
Rismonite wrote: Just a reminder that small blast templates are primarily taken to be a range of influence threat to anything considering a DS shooting attack. Most opponents can outplay them by spreading out proper. My pie plate of choice are the sag mek and the killkannon (ap3).
Indeed you can spread out from them. However i've still found 5 lobbas are useful. Those times you pop open a transport with glances and they have to pile out of the back, more often than not the 6" allowance doesn't leave them enough room to fully spread. Then you give them a liberal covering with blasts
Overwhelm 2+ saves with any of the many ways orkz have to throw handfuls of dice at stuff(loota, and shoota, or just run sluggish boyz into it). Nothing worse than going through the effort of having AP2 fire at a 2+ just to have the opponent take a cover save anyways.
Shoot AV with tankbusta, assault AV14 with tankbusta, shoot FMC with tankbusta, assault MC with tankbusta, shoot marines with tankbusta. Take 30 tankbusta. My opinions.
I also second the volume over AP. Generally they will find a save somewhere, be it an invun or a cover save. With most Ork AP2 stuff you are limited in volume (KMB's, zzap..Smasha), thus generally for the cost your not really doing much. The only exception imo is the KMK. 3-5 small blasts at AP2 can be horrid as you can atleast get 1-2 hits per blast on the turn you need it with ammo runts.
Also tankbusta's are pretty much the best unit in the codex imo can never go wrong with more!
Vitali Advenil wrote: I'll have to ask about Forgeworld next time I go down to the GW place.
Honestly, Battlewagons do the job just fine. They're fast, pretty durable and unload a lot of boyz and a lot of shots. I've had a lot of games where my battlewagons have been just driving round killing stuff even after delivering the unit inside, and if the battle goes badly, they're often the last thing on the board. Remember vehicles can take objectives, which is really useful in such situations.
Wagons are a solid choice, but can get a little pricey.
I did a review of Ork transport options a little while back here, including the FW stuff.
I find Battlewagons work best as just a transport. Battlewagon w/ a reinforced ram and either a big shoota or a rokkit launcha. MAYBE if you have the points, get the boarding plank.
But what this does is keeps an AV14, 4HP assault vehicle w/ 20 transport capacity under 120 points. That's an amazing deal compared to other armies. in 1500+ PT games I always have two 20-boy squads in these barebones wagons. That's basically the starting point to my lists. Sure it takes up two heavy support slots but lately I have been making use of fast attack and elites quite a bit. Warbuggies have been an awesome addition and I have been bringing them in most of my lists lately.
I usually bring Lootas in my third heavy support slot. But since I have 3 battlewagons and I see how effective they are, I have brought a unit of standard nobs (OMG they're terrible!!) in a dedicated transport wagon. It actually works out really well, and catches my opponents off guard. I tell them I'm playing orks and the last thing they expect is a wall of AV14. And say what you will about nobs, but these guys wreck when they get in to close combat, just like regular boyz do. But yea they are a little pricey.
Battlewagons are probably what I'll go with next. Trukks just seem too small and fragile to be much use. They only carry 12 boyz, which is pretty damn small for orks, and are fragile enough to take down turn 1. A battlewagon carrying around my slugga/choppas would be much better. I might save the truck for some nobz and whatever character I decide to stick with them (likely a warboss), and have the truck hide behind the battlewagons during the advance. I think a combination of green tide and plenty of vehicles is how I'm gonna do things.
Still gotta find a use for my stormboyz though. They just look too damn cool not to use.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Battlewagons are probably what I'll go with next. Trukks just seem too small and fragile to be much use. They only carry 12 boyz, which is pretty damn small for orks, and are fragile enough to take down turn 1. A battlewagon carrying around my slugga/choppas would be much better. I might save the truck for some nobz and whatever character I decide to stick with them (likely a warboss), and have the truck hide behind the battlewagons during the advance. I think a combination of green tide and plenty of vehicles is how I'm gonna do things.
Still gotta find a use for my stormboyz though. They just look too damn cool not to use.
aw man, my hero
Start building towards the five battlewagon formation. Don't be afraid to have a light boyz squad in trucks, you do still have to satisfy troop requirements and it's strange how trukk boyz can get away with murder when your opponent is worried about orkz in battlewagonz. Boyz, even without a PK, can still;
-Assault a vehicle with rear av10
-Throw lots of dice at good armor saves
-Assault support units depending on cover
-Draw challenges in assault.
Keep your warboss out of these squads, put him with units in battlewagonz that shouldn't be shot first. Use him like bait, if you opponent doesn't shoot his wagon then he wades into CC and makes them regret it. You want your Warboss for the WAAAGH! that is his purpose.
Don't give up on stormboyz especially if you are running a warboss A squad of stormboyz have an assault range that can clean up shooty stuff that would harm your army's mainstay during a WAAAGH and are really good at fleshing out units depending on range and cover saves to stay safe. One ten to twenty man stormboy squad can almost always do work with the right strategy. I almost always have some stormboyz, not too many, but I always do, and they always come from a far distance to prevent some enemy support from shooting me to death in my opponents shooting phase.
Yeah, that's a much better way to use stormboyz, and it seems like something I want to try.
As far as the wagon formation, it seems just about as expensive as the green tide formation, so that's pretty good. Are there any upgrades y'all would recommend for that formation? Also, is this an actual formation, or is it just a shitton of battlewagons? The only formations I actually know are green tide and ork horde.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Yeah, that's a much better way to use stormboyz, and it seems like something I want to try.
As far as the wagon formation, it seems just about as expensive as the green tide formation, so that's pretty good. Are there any upgrades y'all would recommend for that formation? Also, is this an actual formation, or is it just a shitton of battlewagons? The only formations I actually know are green tide and ork horde.
Its an actual formation. 5 Battlewagons with Scout. The only upgrades I would give to the battlewagons themselves, given how expensive they are, would be reinforced rams so you can effectively move past terrain with impunity and a rokkit launcha or two to soak in any weapon destroyed damage results. Depending on how big your game is (as in 2000+) then I would consider throwing in armour plates or potentially killkannons depending on what units are being transported (i.e. Flash Gitz).
Wait, since they get scout, I can put them pretty much anywhere on the first turn, right? I mean, that sounds absolutely hilarious, like giving a titan stealth (which was apparently a thing a few codices ago according to a friend of mine), but I wanted to use mine more as a screen. Then again, just having the option of scout is super nice.
Also, any tips for painting boyz en-mass? I've gotten to about 1.2 boyz per hour, but that's a lot of hours given the numbers I'm going for. I mean, I'll never sacrifice a quality paint job for convenience, but I just want to know if there's an easier way to paint things.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Wait, since they get scout, I can put them pretty much anywhere on the first turn, right? I mean, that sounds absolutely hilarious, like giving a titan stealth (which was apparently a thing a few codices ago according to a friend of mine), but I wanted to use mine more as a screen. Then again, just having the option of scout is super nice.
Also, any tips for painting boyz en-mass? I've gotten to about 1.2 boyz per hour, but that's a lot of hours given the numbers I'm going for. I mean, I'll never sacrifice a quality paint job for convenience, but I just want to know if there's an easier way to paint things.
The best way I've found to painting boyz en mass is to do batches of them at once. By that I mean doing the base colours (beside the basic primer which should be done ahead of time) for 10-20 guys then going over all of them again with washes/second layer of colours. Don't paint an Ork boy all the way up to completion one at a time. This way while you're painting up the other Orks in the mob the other painted boys are dried off and ready for the next stage by the time you reach the last guy of the batch.
I don't know about Barebones wagonz in that formation, with five wagonz it feels good to have more weapons on top of weapons the occupants inside might be firing. I mean you can scout into the middle of the board and almost hit everything with rokkitz, big shootas, and killcannon.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 4 big shootas is a lot of dakka after scouting 12 inches then moving 6. Especially from several wagonz. They need something to do after dropping off boyz or while housing tankbustas.
Yeah, I was thinking of giving three big shootas for anti-infantry, and the other two rokkits for anti-vehicle. With orks I had no problem with infantry in the game I played, but I sure felt the MEQ units.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Wait, since they get scout, I can put them pretty much anywhere on the first turn, right? I mean, that sounds absolutely hilarious.
Hm maybe you are confusing with infiltration. Scout is an extra movement before first turn (which is also quite good !)
Grimskul wrote: The only upgrades I would give to the battlewagons themselves, given how expensive they are, would be reinforced rams so you can effectively move past terrain with impunity and a rokkit launcha or two to soak in any weapon destroyed damage results.
To take 5 battle wagons in the Blitz Brigade formation I believe they have to have the reinforced ram upgrade.
Deff rollas make no difference in this case. Rams are also s9. You pay 5 extra points for +d6 s9 attacks if the enemy decides to death or glory. It could be situationally useful but...to be honest, i haven't seen a meaningful ram since 5-th edition.
Anyone else ever feel like rolling as many dice as we (orkz) roll that we somehow roll better :p
Took four big shootas on a wagon with just some plain shoota boyz weilding two more big shootas.. Something about holding 18 dice before I pickup 36 shoota boy dice makes killing bikes easy.
lol, I accidentally took a Rolla in a Blitz Brigade the other day XD.. I' m a big cheaty mc cheaterton
Rismonite wrote: Anyone else ever feel like rolling as many dice as we (orkz) roll that we somehow roll better :p
Took four big shootas on a wagon with just some plain shoota boyz weilding two more big shootas.. Something about holding 18 dice before I pickup 36 shoota boy dice makes killing bikes easy.
lol, I accidentally took a Rolla in a Blitz Brigade the other day XD.. I' m a big cheaty mc cheaterton
Maybe its a cognitive thing and you're better able to 'feel' out the probability.
Rismonite wrote: Anyone else ever feel like rolling as many dice as we (orkz) roll that we somehow roll better :p
Took four big shootas on a wagon with just some plain shoota boyz weilding two more big shootas.. Something about holding 18 dice before I pickup 36 shoota boy dice makes killing bikes easy.
lol, I accidentally took a Rolla in a Blitz Brigade the other day XD.. I' m a big cheaty mc cheaterton
Maybe its a cognitive thing and you're better able to 'feel' out the probability.
Hey, believing it will work is what powers every single Ork weapon and vehicle to perform better than it otherwise should...painting is red really does make it move faster!
Not sure if it's acceptable to just throw this into the mix but hey it's an ork discussion after all. (Unsure if these were already talked about) had anyone had any luck from a competitive stand point with the kill tanks from forge world? My local store allows anything under 600 points in tournies and I just read about them the other day slightly and was curios about any success with the kill tanks?
Dubd797 wrote: Not sure if it's acceptable to just throw this into the mix but hey it's an ork discussion after all. (Unsure if these were already talked about) had anyone had any luck from a competitive stand point with the kill tanks from forge world? My local store allows anything under 600 points in tournies and I just read about them the other day slightly and was curios about any success with the kill tanks?
I've used the Kill Krusha a few times.
Model is incredible, and the rules are so Orky!
Mostly I use it aggressively, Tank shocking as much as possible. That +1 on the Thunderbliz table is brutal. You can stick Meks and Force Fields in there if you want, but honestly I wouldn't expect it to survive. It's very vulnerable to Assaults.
Drive it it, run over as many troops and MC's as possible. Hit any remaining troops with a Scrap Canister, then hope it explodes big!
Dubd797 wrote: Not sure if it's acceptable to just throw this into the mix but hey it's an ork discussion after all. (Unsure if these were already talked about) had anyone had any luck from a competitive stand point with the kill tanks from forge world? My local store allows anything under 600 points in tournies and I just read about them the other day slightly and was curios about any success with the kill tanks?
I've used the Kill Krusha a few times.
Model is incredible, and the rules are so Orky!
Mostly I use it aggressively, Tank shocking as much as possible. That +1 on the Thunderbliz table is brutal. Out can stick Meks and Force Fields in there if you want, but honestly I wouldn't expect it to survive. It's very vulnerable to Assaults.
Drive it it, run over as many troops and MC's as possible. Hit any remaining troops with a Scrap Canister, then hope it explodes big!
you know whats makes orks competitive? theme and customization!
you just finished setting up your walker inspired army, with everything represented by robots (warbikers are looted crysis suits, grot tanks are quadrupedal gun platforms, and throw in some actual walkers in there like megatron as your megedredd), and watch as your opponent admires your army and cleverness while he mumbles at his plain as the day they were molded space marines. its psychological warfare! waaagh!
So my store's official stand on CW models is "until they can be sold in store, they suck, but when they can be sold in stores, they're awesome!"
So yeah, none of that. But I played a 4000 point game today and got to turn 2 in about 6 hours. Then we had to leave.
We had an ork stompa, so that was hilarious, and we now have the house rule that super-heavy stompas cannot explode dead on; they must scatter, to maximize hilarity. Overall though, the stompa did amazing well as a bullet sponge; the enemy used all their heavy ordinance on the stompa, letting the rest of our orks go by pretty much unscathed.
Overall, we lost, but it seems like ork armies are, ironically, not something you can just cobble together at a moment's notice. Still, we had a lot of fun, and with orks, that's all I want.
Vitali Advenil wrote: So my store's official stand on CW models is "until they can be sold in store, they suck, but when they can be sold in stores, they're awesome!"
that sucks, do they just not allow proxies or do they just look down on them? if they were an official gw store then i can understand this way of thinkin (gotta promote their own product), but if they arent then they are just being dbags for the heck of it (cause every game store out there only lets players play games that can be found or sold there... so lets forget about games like infinity and others that dont let stores hold there products). heck, not even some tournaments are this anal!
That said, my GW store allows Forgeworld. They emphasize that you clear it with your opponents before you bring FW though.
At least, one of the employees allows it. I think the manager said for a Chapter Challenge (SM event) that if they can't sell them in store (ie the FWCT) then they won't allow it.
But the usual club where everyone used to go has had to find a new place so for the time being, it's hosted in the GW store. I think for the gaming nights FW is allowed without question, although I've not been to one as of yet.
Yeah it's an official GW store, so that's why they have that attitude. It was pretty much implied that the owner is totally cool with FW stuff, but, y'know, gotta comply with corporate and whatnot.
Also, what options for AP2 weapons do orks have? I'm aware of PKs being a goto-choice, but it's often hard to get those off.
I played a 3 game 2500 'Ard Boyz style tournament this past Saturday in Minnesota.
My list:
MAKFF BM with dual Killsaws and DLS BM with SAG PK Bikerboss on the special bike
Painboy
4 KMB Meks to absorb challenges (happened once but it worked really well).
6 times 10 Min Grot squads
9 Single Deffkoptas (as always these are a huge annoyance to opponents)
3 units of Single Kannon
1 unit of 4 Lobbas
One unit of 5 Smasha Guns with Max extra grots. All four HQ's went here.
Stompa with 4 units of 2 Lootas and 3 Meks for a total of 12 repair rolls per turn
ADL with Quad Gun
My defensive "Death Star" of the Smasha Gunz would not die! There was some argument about FNP in the final game which I'll have to take to YMDC but other wise my decision 2 tournaments ago to just castle up with Orks worked really well! The Stompa didn't do too much other than grant everything Fearless which coupled with the 2+ cover from the ADL frustrated my opponents to no end. His high point was game two when a SM Dreadnought charged it with only 6 HP's remaining and whiffed with all 5 attacks (those things are stupid good for cheap).
The missions were quite unique, the 2nd being kill points and with 9 single MSU Deffkoptas I thought I'd autolose but my opponent was running the SM deal that allows free Rhinos, Razorbacks, and Drop Pods and I was able to squeak out a victory there.
Overall the Smasha Gunz were incredibly underwhelming. The random strength was frustrating and I thought they'd combine well with the SAG but the entire DDS (defensive Death Star) was lacking in offensive firepower for the points. I was awaiting for a charge that only came once. 10 Vanguard Vets with Chaplin and Captain along with 6 Sternguard put 31 non-power weapon wounds on my DLSMA BM and he ended up taking a total of one wound!! The Burning Blade Captain kept eating Meks and Grots for 3 rounds. It was great!! The Lobbas were MVP's 2 out of 3 games.
So I think I'm ditching the Stompa, and going to Dual Cad instead of Triple, maxing out on Artillery (switching out Smasha and adding KMK like everyone else ), and going back to Bikes. I just picked up 20 old trukks for conversion purposes and about a dozen old bikes.
All three games were very defensive and unOrky, but just like in the last two tournaments, everyone rushed me, including IG.
I've always felt that the smash gunz, as our only AP1 gun, could have at least been S6+D6 rather than what it is now so we could have something more reliable than the KMK.
I can see how annoying this "star" can be to shoot at, but when being charged, i failed to see the benefit.
A megamek with stick is not stellar and only the bikerboss is really dangerous . You stick 8 orks (4 hq 4mek) with 10 grots so on average your opponent swings againts ws2 (ws3 with the stikk) and T2 at least in the first charge round .
Once the grots die then it start to balance back to the ork stats, so well maybe It is still ok.
In any case this new combinations is interesting. Maybe swap the megamek with a megaboss, and the smasha guns with KMK ?
Yeh Smasha's suck imo. Plus they are a 1 shot weapon, so you first need to hit. KMK's are just leagues ahead, blast, so generally hitting stuff, Str8 so you know your wounding easily and AP2. Yeh AP1 would be sweet for exploding stuff, but generally I find KMK's melt anything anyway.
I think your defensive star is a little over HQ'ed, especially with the stompa. You could have simply used the fearless to allow 2-3 artillery units to do all the work, while keeping 2-3 grot screens around would have made charges avoidable.
If you drop the stompa.
3x5 lobbas - because they clear infantry so nicely.
3x5 KMK's
I mean those alone are going to cause serious issues, there is 6 units and sure they have LD issues and can run away, but certainly not before they have taken their toll.
Looking at picking up two identical squads of Tankbustas. 6 per squad, 3 Squigs, all Rockit Launchas in a Looted Wagon with Killkannon and three more Rockit Launchas. I'm perfectly fine with the 3 Rockits having to snap fire after shooting the Killkannon. Is this a competitive way to deliver my anti-tank or too many toyz for the boyz? Supported by Warbikerz and Lootas to handle infantry and such and free the Tankbustas to do their job.
SharkoutofWata wrote: Looking at picking up two identical squads of Tankbustas. 6 per squad, 3 Squigs, all Rockit Launchas in a Looted Wagon with Killkannon and three more Rockit Launchas. I'm perfectly fine with the 3 Rockits having to snap fire after shooting the Killkannon. Is this a competitive way to deliver my anti-tank or too many toyz for the boyz? Supported by Warbikerz and Lootas to handle infantry and such and free the Tankbustas to do their job.
Personally I'd either drop the rokkits (~ I tried the blitz brigade formation with Kill and 4x rokkit, the snap shooting gets really frustrating as on frequent turns you'll do absolutely nothing with them, whereas the killkannons were penetrating everytime with the ordinance rule.) Across 2 wagons your looking at saving 30+ points?
As for unit threats. Rokkit dudes in a rokkit paper vehicle with a huge kannon on top? Well there's priority numero uno.
Maybe put boyz in the looted wagons, and busta's in trukks. Now if he pops the looted wag he's still got to deal with the busta's, and visa-versa. I just feel like the lootedwagon at 40 points, plus 3 rokkits, plus killkannon your looking at 90ish points. for that you could take 2x lootedwagon with 3 rokkits each. you get 4x the amount of rokkit hits (statistically) and now when the first one explodes, you can atleast pick up the tankbustas next turn to continue your vehicle hunting!
Solar Shock wrote: Yeh Smasha's suck imo. Plus they are a 1 shot weapon, so you first need to hit. KMK's are just leagues ahead, blast, so generally hitting stuff, Str8 so you know your wounding easily and AP2. Yeh AP1 would be sweet for exploding stuff, but generally I find KMK's melt anything anyway.
I think your defensive star is a little over HQ'ed, especially with the stompa. You could have simply used the fearless to allow 2-3 artillery units to do all the work, while keeping 2-3 grot screens around would have made charges avoidable.
If you drop the stompa.
3x5 lobbas - because they clear infantry so nicely.
3x5 KMK's
I mean those alone are going to cause serious issues, there is 6 units and sure they have LD issues and can run away, but certainly not before they have taken their toll.
Excellent advice I agree with it all, and the other posters as well. I know I only played three games and won 2 but even then I did not dictate anything. Almost 100% defensive, reactionary.
The Mek was there for the KFF for the Stompa and with dual Killsaws has the same number of attacks as a Warboss, and obviously better against vehicles. DLS was MVRelic for sure. I love Lobbas and Grotzookas so why should t I love KMK's? I was lured by the AP1 but in the end only ever mattered once. Oh, also, the Smasha can snap fire fliers but in three 2500 point games I faced exactly one flier.
So it's back to Grot Troops, Bikes, and Artillery. Thanks again.
What do people think of Tankbustas? I've heard decent things about them, some of them on this thread, but a unit of 6 with three bomb squigs is only hitting 4.5 times (and only once, as the squigs are OUO), which doesn't even translate into a wrecked AV12 vehicle.
Considering they'll be in a trukk for mobility, are they really worth the points compared to something like Lootas?
The Shadow wrote: What do people think of Tankbustas? I've heard decent things about them, some of them on this thread, but a unit of 6 with three bomb squigs is only hitting 4.5 times (and only once, as the squigs are OUO), which doesn't even translate into a wrecked AV12 vehicle.
Considering they'll be in a trukk for mobility, are they really worth the points compared to something like Lootas?
They were they only hung that killed my Stompa in three games. They have melta bombs and Tank Hunters. Shoot turn one and/or two, assault, have them die, who cares? They did their job.
The Shadow wrote: What do people think of Tankbustas? I've heard decent things about them, some of them on this thread, but a unit of 6 with three bomb squigs is only hitting 4.5 times (and only once, as the squigs are OUO), which doesn't even translate into a wrecked AV12 vehicle.
Considering they'll be in a trukk for mobility, are they really worth the points compared to something like Lootas?
Melta Bombs. Tank Hunters special ability. Glory Hogs special ability. Squig Bombs option.
They can destroy any ground based vehicle including SHVs but in the latter case it might be a suicide mission due to the explosion that follows.
5 to 8 tankbustas can load into a truck without being a liability and can suicide assault many things with melta bombs. Melta bombs can also stick to MC. Bomb Squigs can help make the small unit effective for one turn. Cheap cheap cheap
15 Tankbustas can shoot anything in the game nicely that doesn't have a 2+ Armor save, which you can usually handle with a bucket of dice from boyz or a weight of fire unit like lootas. They shoot all AV, force bikes to jink, even snapshots at FMC with 3+, instant death t4, gib 3+ infantry.
You could take 30, even 45 in larger games, and probably find they did something good. Their biggest drawback is that they need transport, and if it's in trucks you will need 6 units
I was pretty much planning on getting a couple battlewagons, loading them up with anti-tank options (but not the killkannon, as to allow the 20 capacity), and cramming them full of tankbustas. It might be kind of expensive though, and I'm still not completely sure how I want to build my army aside from a green tide.
I keep trying to build killakanz, my initial idea was thus; Nurgle killakanz that I could run as either killakanz or as hellbrutes (as CSM allies). However, like a true mek, every time I start putting bits together they eventually grow and become so big that they are clearly deffdreads I tried to make 3 killakanz last week and I now have 3 almost finished deffdreads I really want to play with these walkers so ive been thinking; ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (WL) BigMek - Irrational genius + DFK (because I love the irrational genius table and a meka-dread that fires D3 rending lobba shots sounds hilarious ) Meka-dread - Shred claws, rattlerkannon, rokkit-bomb rack
3x1 Deffdread - No upgrades (2x BS)
Then atleast 3x5 Rokkit buggies 2x5 Lobba, ammo runts and a few extra crew. (I've found max crew a waste as generally they hardly get targeted and they are already 20 T7 wounds without extra crew.) 1x5 KMK's Ammo runts
After that I will likely add more walkers. The idea being that killakanz generally are a little underwhelming, but with mass dreads and mass rokkit buggies you still have huge amounts of AV saturation, the buggies are there to crack armour open and help neutralise threats to the dreads, if they don't survive the game then no big deal. The dreads are the real threat, but the imminent threat of the buggies will hopefully draw some fire.
Questions; The irrational genius table, the supa-charger says any vehicle that hasn't moved "flatout" can supa-charge 2D6 in the shooting phase. How does that work for a walker? as a walker is a vehicle?
The troop choice dreads, are they Objsec? It says you use the standard FoC and the rules for it, but then it also later states they are not Scoring; which is an outdated term, but I would assume a good conversion would be; they aren't Objsec?
Would it be worth forgoing weapons on the Meka-dread? Keeping 3 attacks, as the rattlerkannon can run out on Double 1 and isn't all that impressive anyway. The rokkit-bomb racks run out on a 1-2 each turn. The shunta is a small blast and quite likely to scatter and the big zzappa has all the zzappa downsides.
Mek Gunz (117pts) [3x Ammo Runt (9pts), 6x Extra Gretchin (18pts), 3x Kustom Mega-kannon w/ Grots (90pts)]
Thoughts?
I would absolutely ditch the PK's in the TB mobs and especially the Warbiker Mobs. For the points, a TB Nob does better with his TB bombs and the 3 Ork Warbikers are waaayyyy to fragile to invest anything more than a BC. Just my opinion.
Mek Gunz (117pts) [3x Ammo Runt (9pts), 6x Extra Gretchin (18pts), 3x Kustom Mega-kannon w/ Grots (90pts)]
Thoughts?
I would absolutely ditch the PK's in the TB mobs and especially the Warbiker Mobs. For the points, a TB Nob does better with his TB bombs and the 3 Ork Warbikers are waaayyyy to fragile to invest anything more than a BC. Just my opinion.
+1 to the above.
Also warbikes are much better shooting than in assault. For the cost of the nob+powerklaw you could have 3 more bikes, so 5bikes total. I would much rather be shooting with 5 bikes than have 3 bikes shooting and maybe turn 2-3 have the powerklaw attacks. Or just spend the points elsewhere, liek more mekguns/lootas. Downgrading nobs in biker mobs to normaly warbikers is 105pts saved, -2 powerklaws in the TBers saves another 50, thats 155pts. The trukk boyz nobz with powerklaws, meganobz, and warboss, big mek- should be enough powerklaws considering how many melta bombs and dakka you have.
Yep, No PK on tankbusta's, waste of points, either add more TB's to the unit or use points elsewhere.
Secondly the TB units are quite large, potentially I would make them smaller and take a 3rd unit, but you cant because you have maxed elites already. So potentially make them 9 strong and add more lootas and split the lootas into two units. The advantage is that your tankbustas are basically suicide, they will die guaranteed and it will be the turn after you blow something up. Losing a few bodies won't massively affect the units performance.
I agree about your bikes. you could save yourself some points there too. Take the bikes, make a larger unit and add a painboy. the survivability will increase drastically, as at the moment you will be taking a test as soon as each unit loses one model.
Finally, drop the KMB's on the meks. yeh its only 5 points each mek, but they are challenge meks. Gets hot is not worth the 2 or so shots that likely wont hit. Secondly, you won't be firing the turn you waaagh out of your trukks, run and charge So ditch it. 10 points.
Overall with all the points savings you could grab another trukk boy unit more than likely, which would be a help adding more units to your rush.
Another option; Take 1 bike unit add it to another, change the excess nob into a painboy on bike so you have 5 bikes with a painboy on bike and use it as a shooting unit. The second bike unit can be left as a harassing unit. To the HQ you either need the horde detachment, or take a second CAD. which you can make by adding a second grot unit. Drop the KMB's, 1 TB from each unit and your pretty much there. For it you gain a considerably powerful shooting unit that puts out 15 shots a turn and has a 3+ jink with FNP. I have had great success with bike shooting. Opening vehicle side armour etc..
I might consider a Kustom Mega Slugga and Choppa with my challenge meks to give a strong kick to ranged atks when already in the enemy field and don't need to run during shooting phase and keep the extra attack to use if he's lucky and lives long enough to swing his weapons but otherwise I see no reason to fiddle much with that particular mek. KMB's on the Meks found in Lootas/Burnas perhaps. Although I only consider using the 3 mek free upgrade in those units when I want them in a Stompa or a back line battlewagon with Kill Kannon.
I like Ork's version of Imperium's plasma weapons. I've come to learn recently that Imperium's plasma weapons are Str7 AP2 while Orks is Str8 AP2 and always found on models with multiple wounds. However Ork BS2 gets in the way.... The challenge mek with the Mega Sugga may never get a hit in with that gun as he may rarely get a chance to use it with only 1/3 chance of hitting with a single shot. For the units that allow 3 models to be upgraded to meks for free then out of the three one should statistically land a hit giving the Loota squad a bit more punch when facing a very mechanized army.
I think meks can take gitfindas, which gives them BS3 if they don't move that turn, but unless they're paired with lootas this is kind of hard to use in an ork army.
Also, I've never much seen the point of grot squads. I see that most people send them to go secure objectives that the enemy isn't bothering with, but that role could be filled with plenty of other units as well, ones with more utility (such a small squad of cheap stormboyz).
I guess the other benefit is that they only take up an infantry slot, and that the enemy will probably never prioritize them unless they need a quick victory point.
ProwlerPC wrote:I might consider a Kustom Mega Slugga and Choppa with my challenge meks to give a strong kick to ranged atks when already in the enemy field and don't need to run during shooting phase and keep the extra attack to use if he's lucky and lives long enough to swing his weapons but otherwise I see no reason to fiddle much with that particular mek. KMB's on the Meks found in Lootas/Burnas perhaps. Although I only consider using the 3 mek free upgrade in those units when I want them in a Stompa or a back line battlewagon with Kill Kannon.
I like Ork's version of Imperium's plasma weapons. I've come to learn recently that Imperium's plasma weapons are Str7 AP2 while Orks is Str8 AP2 and always found on models with multiple wounds. However Ork BS2 gets in the way.... The challenge mek with the Mega Sugga may never get a hit in with that gun as he may rarely get a chance to use it with only 1/3 chance of hitting with a single shot. For the units that allow 3 models to be upgraded to meks for free then out of the three one should statistically land a hit giving the Loota squad a bit more punch when facing a very mechanized army.
See I've been down the same train of thought, but for me the result is always;
A) I need to pay for a KMB in a loota/burna squad, making the model 20pts
B) With BS2 I will still be hardly hitting with a 1 shot weapon.
If they were free for loota/burna meks then I would highly consider a cheap, throwaway plasma trukk unit. giving each an ammo runt would also go a long way.
Vitali Advenil wrote:I think meks can take gitfindas, which gives them BS3 if they don't move that turn, but unless they're paired with lootas this is kind of hard to use in an ork army.
Also, I've never much seen the point of grot squads. I see that most people send them to go secure objectives that the enemy isn't bothering with, but that role could be filled with plenty of other units as well, ones with more utility (such a small squad of cheap stormboyz).
I guess the other benefit is that they only take up an infantry slot, and that the enemy will probably never prioritize them unless they need a quick victory point.
Sadly meks can't take a gitfinda, nor a BP.
As for grots, generally they are good for being a cheap backfield scoring unit and for filling up mandatory troops, especially considering I normally run 2+ CAD's, as I like HQ's and MSU. People always say boyz are only twice the cost of a grot. But boyz pretty much need a nob, need a BP and then why not a PK? Which puts you at 100 points. So 3x the cost. I like grots for a few reasons. I can run them up the field as a nuisance who cap objectives and take board space. I can use them to screen Mek Gunz and prevent charges/DS stuff. I can shove them in a trukk and rush them forward, sure majority would die to the explosion but the time he shoots some low volume shots that all miss at a unit of grots in a trukk makes that move an instant regret; generally resulting in them being left alone most game thereafter.
There are plenty of times where boyz are far superior. But don't rule your grots out!
That does look good Yeh if your going to spend an extra 75 points on the KMK's to give them SNP then a maxed squad makes much more sense. Crew wise; you already have 15 grots, 5 artillery and a MegaMek, that's 21 models, so you need significant casualties to cause a test, with the 2+ tanking, that's not likely to happen soon. personally I'd be happy with the number of grots there.
Secondly, I think the bomb squigs are pretty powerful for 5pts each. Really helps you guarantee that vehicle kill with 3 hits on a 2+.
Your bikes look good. You need 2 casualties for a test, you don't have a nob or BP, but the trade off is you either have 3x5 or you have 3x4 with Nob and BP. Where 1 casualty is still a test. Other choice would be;
1x5 bikers
1x9 bikers - with Nob and BP.
But that's more a personal preference choice imo.
Automatically Appended Next Post: -------------------------------------------------
A little bit of an odd idea;
Stampede formation;
Barebones boyz units (no nobs or BPs) - roughly 500 points.
Dredmob formation;
HQ 3x1 Deffdreads (or more single dreds if you fancy)
3x 1 killakanz
Klawstompa - 500 points
------------------------------------------------
So The klawstompa is the cheapest of all the stompa builds at a minimum of 450 points. However it also provides effigy; so fearless bubble. Combine that with the stampede formation which gives you 6x10 boyz minimum, due to effigy being only needing 1 model per unit to grant the whole unit fearless you can effectively bubble wrap the klawstompa, making all units fearless without the need for PKs or BPs. The bubble wrap helps keep melta away while also allowing your 60 point units to move midfield to secure objectives.
The dreds are there to help saturate AV and provide the high Str AP2 attacks that you don't have without PKS. (sadly I had also thought they had 'ere we go!, but they don't, so no running and charging every turn with dreds )
By placing objectives using the diamond pattern frequently used by builds like DE grot builds; aiming for a centralised cluster of objectives. You can utilise the fearless to get your units onto objectives and control the midtable. While the stompa will more than likely be priority target. Boyz act as fearless cheap tarpits that can run and charge every turn. While dreds are the units you use to take out your intended targets. If the boyz leave the fearless bubble due to charging ahead and then end up running away from combat, they will also re-group once back within the stompa's bubble.
If you want the stomps to be a bullet sponge,I'd actually reend grot riggers or a mek, or both. That extra hp may not seem like much when stompas already have 14, but that's 1 more hp the enemy has to use AV stuff on.
Also, I need a bit of advice myself. I'm building a green tide, and I'm thinking of going with 20-ish slugga/choppas, and 80-ish shootas. I'll put the sluggas in front as a screen, and their squads will both have PK/BP nobs. I might as a few more of those nobs deeper into the shootas, but I don't think too many are necesary. Since they all act as one squad (I think,) I don't actually need all those BPs. What other suggestions do tall have?
way less shootas.
Seems silly, but when you think about it how many are actually going to be in range? I personally (although have never played it) would take 20-30 shootas and put them behind a slugga screen. Then you can shuffle more sluggas to the front as the ranks die while your shootas who are a bit further back can still shoot.
Generally I assume the greentide will be running in most turns right?
That would also be 80 boyz shooting into one unit. A massive waste of fire power. It would be better having 5x20 Shoota Boyz because you could at least split your target units up.
Sluggaz work best for GreenTide because you can multicharge pretty much everything.
Yeah, I didn't think about the range issue. I'll probably make 20-ish shootas and the rest sluggas with a healthy dose of PKs. A pain boy is a must, but I might also want a weird at for both psyker defense and possibly da jump.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Yeah, I didn't think about the range issue. I'll probably make 20-ish shootas and the rest sluggas with a healthy dose of PKs. A pain boy is a must, but I might also want a weird at for both psyker defense and possibly da jump.
LOL you're going to jump a Green Tide?! Hopefully there'd be room and you don't mishap, scatter too much.
Could also be the most troll tastic thing ever. Hear me out, don't like the guy you are playing? Bring a green tide with enough pyskers to get DA Jump. Take your time with terrain and deployment. Start with all your non green tide models in reserve. Right after all the tables are in a game, start your pys phase and use da jump to mishap your squad, praying for the worst.
"Well, guess I lost man."
Naturally, I wouldn't play anyone I felt a need to do this to, but the thought did cross my mind"
So guys; I have a campaign coming (1500), the only limitations is no relics, no named chars and your warlord cannot be changed during any of the games. However he does advance/get injured depending on performance.
Looking at the advancement tables and injuries tables;
Injuries; caused by dying on battlefield.
Fear
fearless
5+ invun / +1 to invun
-1LD
-1T
cannot seize
-2I
-2 BS gets hot all weapons
dead (replace WL)
advancement; (advances at end of game on 5+, with +1 to roll for kill char in challenge, StWL, KillMC or vehicle)
+1LD
+1I
+1BS
+1WS
+1A
+1T
So initially before I had seen those tables I had been planning on using a SAG Bigmek. But it seems to me that most advancements would be worthless for him and hard to achieve. Now im thinking a Bikerboss is clearly the most useful. He can kill chars, vehicles, MC's. The advancements all are worthwhile for a bike, even +1 BS.
Big Mek on a bike with a SAG and Killsaw. Best of both worlds. Better at killing vehicles because of armorbane and str2d6 ap2 large blast will kill the poop out of a few warlords not to mention if he rolls 66.
haha that is true, plus a SAG is such fun. I'll give him a nice big blob of bikers with a painboy and just shoot stuff to pieces. I think generally i'll avoid going for slay the warlord with him unless its against something squishy. But generally I know that most players are going to be bringing something a bit tougher. One dude is running a wraithlord as his WL, as a spiritseer is a little squishy.
Also each game has a table modifier; D6 -1BS and -2Movement
All terrain is difficult terrain
Normal
-1 reserves
each charge roll D6, 1 or 2 = half charge range.
No scout or infiltrate
So having looked at that I think bikes are going to be extremely useful, as well as anything in vehicles. Footslogging is dangerous as 3/6 are either making movement harder or reducing charge range.
Im thinking then;
SAG bike
Bike blob with painboy
Trukk boyz
lootas
But I can change the army comp game to game anyway, so i'll see how it pans out
So since the ITC ruling of double detachments, I've been thinking of making a WarbossStar that includes Zhadsnark, 2-3 Warbosses on Bikes, one with Boss pole and lucky Stikk, all with PK and a Painboy on a Bike. Maybe a Big Mek and KFF if you need it to be a bit more survivable.
Essentially, you've got 15-20 S10 ap2 attacks, some at I4 for challenges, much like TWC, except you're not doubled out by Strength 10 weapons like TWC are. You also have semi-fleet through 'Ere we go so it's likely you can get into combat. I guess you could have a unit of Warbikers attached to it too for ablative wounds and Scouting with Zhadsnark. Thoughts?
Anything star with a buttload of PKs is going to do work if it gets into action, and with warbikes I think it'll work. We had a nobstar last game I played, which included Ghazzy, and it did some work, taking out three dreadnauts and a pack of space wolves. The hardest thing we had to do was get to the enemy, so the bikes will solve that problem.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Sorry for the double post, but I need some advice. I've been playing around with a list I want to make (2000 point-ish) and it's nearly there- it just needs to trim a bit of fat. It's based around a mass of infantry with a few vehicles for screens and some heavy artillery.
The plan is for one of the battlewagons to charge in front of the Greentide to give them something to hide behind. The weirdboy will be using sanctic powers, which could potentially bolster the painboy's +5 FNP into a +4 FNP, along with gate of infinity being a chance for hilarity. He's also there for psyker defense, as a lot of powers could effect the unit as a whole. Meanwhile, the stormboyz and bikers will be distracting anything that could hit the greentide from the sides. The lootas and mek guns would be taking out any vehicles or what have you in the meantime. The nobs are your generic melee formation, and the 12 shootas in a trukk are there to get to whatever they can get their grubby mits on, much like the grots.
However, this list has some glaring flaws. I don't have any relics, and my only HQs are in the greentide, and I would like at least a warboss with my nobs. Plus, the battlewagons are hardly decked out, and I want more anti-vehicle choices on them.
Hmm, if your plan is for the BW to act as a screen, personally I would take trukks or buggies. you could take 3 trukks for the cost of a BW and not only would you have enough to completely block LoS, but it requires 3 targets. The side armour of a BW is 12, and will still be blown to pieces given the chance, all that extra cost that provides you with front AV14 is being wasted. Heck you could even get 2-3 BigT's or Gunwags for that cost and they are AV 11 and AV12 respectively on their sides.
Secondly, if your putting your Nob into a BW with an 'ard case they can't charge after disembarking. So will likely get shot to pieces on the turn they do so.
At the moment I can't see why your list wouldn't work, might not be ultra competitive, but seems like a good fun list. Although if I was trying to trim to squeeze in a warboss (on bike most likely), then first i'd drop the Nobs. they are an expensive unit for the survivability. For anti-vehicle, i'd probably run some 5 man tankbusta's in trukks, dropping both battlewagons and the Nobs.
I agree with possibly dropping the nobs, but I'd rather keep at least one BW because trukks are just so fragile. Another issue with dropping the nobs is I have nowhere to put another war boss, though I could just go with some other HQ instead.
You have 6 warbikers, an excellent crew for a bikerboss A DLS bikerboss no less, re-rollable coversave, great for a flanking unit.
you also have Mek gunz;
But why is there also a lobba and a kannon in there? The lobba and kannon add up to the cost of 1 KMK, personally i'd swap them for 1 KMK, the lobba doesn't provide anything, nor the kannon.
I think if I ran a greentide it would have a purely Stormboy support I mean you could field like 3x30 stormboyz for 900 points Hello a 100 strong FNP blob, with 90 fast moving tarpits! use the stormboyz to tarpit any annoying units while the greentide moves up!
I mostly wanted variety in the mek guns, but then again, I have enough anti infantry. The issue with that many stormboyz, though, is that I lose my anti-MEQ/vehicle options.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The biker boss, though, is a great idea. I'll definitely do that.
Who needs anti MEQ/vehicle when he can't move them out of his own DZ!
I just ordered like 10 jump packs and some rokkits. Gona make as many stormboyz as I can and see how they hold up. 9pts for a 12" move, 2D6 run into cover (because if you are taking a terrain check from using the 2D6 run you may as well end the move in terrain.). Turn 2; Waaagh! Move 6", run 2D6 and then use the jump pack for re-rollable charge range and HoW!
i just feel a need for high str/ap weapons for larger targets. They're also long range, like my lootas, to weaken any threats before my boyz get there.
I have found the 36" restrictive in circumstances. PLaying against shooty lists has generally seen them hold back further than 36" knowing that I as an ork player WILL be coming forward
Against a greentide, they are going to stay well away, throwing occasional speed bumps to slow you down/pull you away in another direction. Plus if you start your tide on your DZ line then likely you will not be able to take the most advantageous spot for your KMK's. However in saying that I see a lot of greentides with Artillery, so it clearly works
I run the gun trucks from IA 8 [from the actual book, not the update] for cheap barrage cover. You can mount a big lobba (48" str. 6 ap. 4 large blast barrage) and only pay circa 60 pnts. The ap isn't the greatest, but the high strength of the gun, range, and mobility of mount pays dividends. Plus, they are super easy to convert, since all you need is an Ork Trukk and a nasty looking gun. You can also mount the flakk gun on it for anti-air, but I prefer to put that on the big trakk for a bit more protection.
Omg I've been converted to using KMK. Last night I had a single CAD 1850 list with 2 units of 5 KMK's and one unit of 5 Lobbas. In one round of shooting one unit of KMK was able to wreck one and explode 2 IG Hydras, in cover! It was unreal.
Later 4 out of 5 Lobbas got a 'hit', out of view of course. 28 wounds on a veteran unit.
Over all they performed much better than I expected and the other new Mek Gunz. The AP helped a little with damage results. Since I was playing against IG the opp. had nothing better than a 4+ save. Oh, and the BS3 helped reduce scatter that much more than the BS2, it was noticeable.
so i have a question. has anyone ever used da lucky stick on a bigmek with shock attack gun? i am curious how the rules work for this. does dls allow reroll on the scatter (just like ammo runts would), and if so what rerolls would be counted as failures? if a reroll on a scatter weapon isn't counted as a failure then does this grant a bigmek with sag unlimited rerolls on the "to hit"?
would this be a good use of dls, could it maximize the effectiveness of the sag.
benefits
-after rolling a low strength you can reroll the scatter to possibly change your target.
-if by chance you get sucked into combat you could use dls to better survive combat untill more units can "rescue the big mek"
-if the bigmek is upgraded with bike and killsaw he can use dls to be as good if not better than a warboss in combat.
downsides
-its not on a warboss (while yes warbosses have proven to be ideal for dls, would it be as effective on a bigmek with sag).
The DLS in regards to the SAG will simply act like an ammo runt, allowing a re-roll on scatter. It will also allow you re-rolls to wound.
It would certainly help with if you got teleported into combat, but tbh I don't bother putting a KS/PK on my SAG meks. If they get teleported then generally its safe to assume they are going to die in short order. So I like to save the points and use it elsewhere. I think the cost of a KS and a DLS at 55 points for something situational like combat is a bit of a waste. I mean if you can scrape together another 30 points you could potentially field a second SAG; which would probably do more work.
Icculus wrote: Scatter does fail a "to-hit" roll if an arrow is rolled. So then you reroll the whole thing, the scatter die and the 2d6
Well put That explains it nicely.
In my next game I am running some looted wagons, as i'm playing what seems a MEQ heavy campaign, i think the killkannons are going to help. I know its a low AV platform with only AV11 front and side. Does anyone have any experience running them? I have yet to try.
Icculus wrote: Scatter does fail a "to-hit" roll if an arrow is rolled.
So then you reroll the whole thing, the scatter die and the 2d6
While that makes sense... I can't find any rule in the book that says a scatter roll "fails" if it rolls an arrow. It says if you can re-roll to-hit, and you choose to use that for the scatter roll, you must reroll everything (scatter die and the 2d6). But I can't find any mention of "failing" the roll (except maybe if the scatter distance/direction takes it off the board, which is described as being a "complete miss" and being "discarded").
So I am brand new to the hobby and have in fact only played 1 game so far. I have a growing ork army and right now am comfortable learning the game playing my Green tide army with supporting elements from other ork vehicles and side boy units.
~~
Anyways my question is what do you guys think of having Chaos Space Marine allies for your Ork army? I see they are the only army Orks can ally with without suffering some pretty nasty penalties. I like the CSM from a lore perspective and would love to start collecting some of them on the side as allies for my orks and perhaps one day build them into an army of their own.
Are there any notable synergies between the orks and CSM? Would getting CSM to add to my Ork army be worth it for additional options and flare or do the Ork units just have all their own areas covered?
So I am brand new to the hobby and have in fact only played 1 game so far. I have a growing ork army and right now am comfortable learning the game playing my Green tide army with supporting elements from other ork vehicles and side boy units.
~~
Anyways my question is what do you guys think of having Chaos Space Marine allies for your Ork army? I see they are the only army Orks can ally with without suffering some pretty nasty penalties. I like the CSM from a lore perspective and would love to start collecting some of them on the side as allies for my orks and perhaps one day build them into an army of their own.
Are there any notable synergies between the orks and CSM? Would getting CSM to add to my Ork army be worth it for additional options and flare or do the Ork units just have all their own areas covered?
Well, CSM psykers are better than weirdboys, so a ML3 Sorcerrr on a Bike can come handy. A unit of Havocks with lascanons might also be worthwile.
So I am brand new to the hobby and have in fact only played 1 game so far. I have a growing ork army and right now am comfortable learning the game playing my Green tide army with supporting elements from other ork vehicles and side boy units.
~~
Anyways my question is what do you guys think of having Chaos Space Marine allies for your Ork army? I see they are the only army Orks can ally with without suffering some pretty nasty penalties. I like the CSM from a lore perspective and would love to start collecting some of them on the side as allies for my orks and perhaps one day build them into an army of their own.
Are there any notable synergies between the orks and CSM? Would getting CSM to add to my Ork army be worth it for additional options and flare or do the Ork units just have all their own areas covered?
IMBO along with the better Pyschers who can summon demons without penalty as mentioned above, I think the best thing CSM can offer is a unit of Obliterators. DSing Terminators that have a variety of heavy weapons in an opponent's backfield is exactly what the Orks are missing. Much more efficient than anything in the Ork Codex.
Chaos marine sorcerers can't summon daemons any better than weirdboys. A sorcerer with a specific uograde can, but that isn't the same thing. If you want daemons in an ork list weirdboys are just fine as summoners...or ally in some daemons. The only thing a sorcerer has on a weirdboy is a bike, and heralds have jet bikes...
I don't personally see chaos marines adding much to an ork list. A daemon prince and helldrake is about all I'd want, but I wouldn't want to waste points on chaos troops to get them.
I do like adding in daemons though. Four heralds and a unit of horrors isn't that much and opens up a ton of options if you have the daemon models to summon in.
FraustTheSnowman wrote: Chaos marine sorcerers can't summon daemons any better than weirdboys. A sorcerer with a specific uograde can, but that isn't the same thing. If you want daemons in an ork list weirdboys are just fine as summoners...or ally in some daemons. The only thing a sorcerer has on a weirdboy is a bike, and heralds have jet bikes...
I don't personally see chaos marines adding much to an ork list. A daemon prince and helldrake is about all I'd want, but I wouldn't want to waste points on chaos troops to get them.
I do like adding in daemons though. Four heralds and a unit of horrors isn't that much and opens up a ton of options if you have the daemon models to summon in.
Or paint a bunch of your Sluggas and Shootas red and you can summon count-as Chaos/Demon Orks!!!
For me the only value grots have is cheap troops. So always min units...which is annoying 11 due to the herder.
Grot tanks have been a little hit or miss. I've used them with all okkits and outflanked them via the bossboys formation. They did ok but didn't have good targets every game. I've also used them with rokkits on the komanda and grotzookas on the regular tanks but only had mega nobs to shoot at that game.
Grot mega tanks however are amazing. I've ran them with rokkits and tl kmbs and done ok plinking hullpoints off tanks. Then did one game with skorchas and tl grotzookas and was blowing apart other orks. I like outflanking the mega tanks now more thank the little ones.
Take 19 grots or 29 grots so you only need 1 runtherder or 2 respectively. Grots are great and I consider them a must include in all my lists. 3pts/model you can't go wrong with that when using them to grab objective. They are expendable. Good for soaking overwatch too. One lucky shot and they can more then pay for their cost and with BS3 they might as well be the snipers of the Ork armies. Personally I wish all vehicle weapons had a grot manning it while the Orks went to business.
Frozocrone wrote: I've always taken them as 3x10 because I take Grotz for cheap troops.
Speaking of Grotz though, has anyone had good success with Grot Tanks and the Grot Mega Tank?
I arm my grot tanks with Grotzookas and big shootas (for range). 6 of them put out an insane amount of dakka and tend to be ignored because of bigger threats. Even when they are targeted, their 5+ invulnerable makes them surprisingly durable.
I use units of 10. Use them as a shield for other units, as shooting through a squad grants cover saves. They have to waste time killing the grots.
I did a MegaBoss/ DLS and grot squad. Used this as a shield for the green tide. The look on the opponents face is totally worth the 3" loss of ground to make sure the boss is going to be the closest model. Yes, it was not a good idea since the wounding is done against T3, but with DLS, who cares. It was fun.
Are there any problems that the right application of power klaws and tank bustas can't solve. Because so far that is my entire game plan. Trukk boys with a pk nob and a sacrificial mek. Tankbustas in trukks. Rinse and repeat.
I use Grotzookas on my Grot tanks. 8 Str6 ap 4 templetes can put out a gak ton of hits and wounds. Right now, I use 4 Grot tanks with grotzookas and a looted wagon with Killkannon. You mulch your way through a lot of infantry with them.
Im still collecting and painting my ork army, im going for a fluffy list of Freeboota's, I really dont think my list will get much done, but im more in it for the fun crazy destruction. This thread has helped alot, so thank you to everyone who has contributed.
I've just got finished converting all my PK Nobz sluggaz into Shootaz, since they can upgrade for free, and the PK is a specialist weapon, so why not take the extra range and shot!
Can PK nobs take shootas? I thought shootas were two-handed weapons. Plus, how is the upgrade free? I mean, if it is I'll do the same, but that seems strange to me.
Also, I was thinking of going on a 30/70 shoota to slugga ratio in a greentide, putting the shootas and big shootas at the back. Does that ratio sound optimal?
A Boyz mob Boss Nob may take items from the Ranged Weapons list. Ranged weapons options are for a model to replace it's ranged weapon (slugga) to a Shoota for free.
The new auto include Nob build along with a Boss pole and Power klaw!
Okay, so I looked at the list, and I think that this would make the nob lose out on one melee attack because the shoota is not a pistol. In other words, this is a case of shooty vs stabby. Honestly, I want my boss nobs to get as many hits with their PKs as possible, so I think I'd skip this one.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Okay, so I looked at the list, and I think that this would make the nob lose out on one melee attack because the shoota is not a pistol. In other words, this is a case of shooty vs stabby. Honestly, I want my boss nobs to get as many hits with their PKs as possible, so I think I'd skip this one.
A PK is a specialist weapon. So unless you have a second PK somehow, you don't get an extra attack in the same way. The shoots is definitely the upgrade you want.
Manz and Big Meks are the only ones I see that have the options to use two specialist melee weapons. Two Killsaws on a Manz and the Big Mek can take a PK and Killsaw if he has the MA upgrade. I consider one model with two killsaws mandatory in a Manz unit. My future Orkimedes char will have the PK and Killsaw.
No reason he can't have a two handed shooting weapon when he's got a PK. A Nob can have a two handed Uge Choppa and a Twin Linked Shoota if he wanted. Lots of practice swapping on the fly in a society of warfare. Options for ranged are swapped out for two specialist weapons in the above examples but the Big Mek can have a Tellyport Blasta on his shoulders.
urbanevil wrote: Im still collecting and painting my ork army, im going for a fluffy list of Freeboota's, I really dont think my list will get much done, but im more in it for the fun crazy destruction. This thread has helped alot, so thank you to everyone who has contributed.
ProwlerPC wrote: Manz and Big Meks are the only ones I see that have the options to use two specialist melee weapons. Two Killsaws on a Manz and the Big Mek can take a PK and Killsaw if he has the MA upgrade. I consider one model with two killsaws mandatory in a Manz unit. My future Orkimedes char will have the PK and Killsaw.
No reason he can't have a two handed shooting weapon when he's got a PK. A Nob can have a two handed Uge Choppa and a Twin Linked Shoota if he wanted. Lots of practice swapping on the fly in a society of warfare. Options for ranged are swapped out for two specialist weapons in the above examples but the Big Mek can have a Tellyport Blasta on his shoulders.
I run my MA BM with KFF and Killsaw. Works really well. Last night I ran 9 MANz with Grotsnik in a BW for a Planet Strike game. 6 with Killsaws and 3 with KombiSkorchas.
ProwlerPC wrote: Manz and Big Meks are the only ones I see that have the options to use two specialist melee weapons. Two Killsaws on a Manz and the Big Mek can take a PK and Killsaw if he has the MA upgrade. I consider one model with two killsaws mandatory in a Manz unit. My future Orkimedes char will have the PK and Killsaw.
No reason he can't have a two handed shooting weapon when he's got a PK. A Nob can have a two handed Uge Choppa and a Twin Linked Shoota if he wanted. Lots of practice swapping on the fly in a society of warfare. Options for ranged are swapped out for two specialist weapons in the above examples but the Big Mek can have a Tellyport Blasta on his shoulders.
I run my MA BM with KFF and Killsaw. Works really well. Last night I ran 9 MANz with Grotsnik in a BW for a Planet Strike game. 6 with Killsaws and 3 with KombiSkorchas.
Yes, normally I'd have the KFF instead of the Tellyport Blasta but this will be Orkimedes so he'll have the MFF as well as the Tellyport Blasta (and Super Cybork Body). Tellyporting is his thing, very fluffy.
The Orkimedes are solid, aside the Kill-Dakka. In particular the Big Boss Pole. I find myself regulary taking the Great Waaagh! Detachment, if only for it. 20 points is a steal to negate Mob Rule, I find it much more useful than Da Lucky Stikk for my boyz (not that DLS is bad).
Hey guys i'm looking for some good ork tactics. Not really list builds or certain units to take. But specific strategies to use in the game. Anybody have a favorite tactic they like to use? Personal favorite is deff kopa screen maneuver. Basically take a deffkopta, maybe 2, and have them follow a unit of boyz around. When you get ready to assault, assault first with the deffkoopta. This foces an overwatch shots at a T5 W2 with a 4+ armor/jink save. Good change you are going to survive and make the charge. Then the mob boyz assault in and you get everyone in.
I like the Deffkopta tactic. I use mine to Scout up my Warbosses on Bikes with PK. Free 12" movement to block line of sight, then flat out 24" to get closer and have the turn 2 charge ready.
Can someone give me a bit of a Tactica for Ork Planes. The Dakkajet, burna and blitza bomber. I have my 1st Ork flier kit staring up at me, and I will certainly magnetize it, but I'm trying to figure out what role it will serve for me in game.
It looks to me like the Dakkajet is still king with 9 S6 shots. I run Tyranids as well, so I can vouch for exactly how good TL S6 shooting is. I'm not really seeing quite as much viability for the other planes. Ignores cover is great against 'Nids, and Dark Angles. S7 AP2 is good against many things, but there is still scatter, and the target has to be in range, and it seems like forcing you to pass over targets may put you out of position for future turns and you only get 2 rounds of that sort of damage output.
Overall, the problem with fliers in a list is that is a number of points that don't come into play until turn 3 or possibly turn 4. So I feel like more than 1 plane might be keeping too much in reserves. Furthermore, unlike Tyranid Fliers, they can't land to score objectives. What do you guys think? Is 1 Plane best? Which type is best? What does it bring to your list?
If I have just one plane, I make it the Blitzabomba. S7 AP2 Barrage with semi-reliable scatter (only 1D6) is hard to come by. There's a ~8% chance you won't drop the bomb but 9/10 times you'll smoke whatever you bombed. Blitzabomba shines when running Zhadsnark lists, since you don't get KMK for Blast AP2.
If I take two, I take Dakkajets with 3x Supashootas. They are decent for AA (I usually field a unit of 15 Lootas alongside them if I'm play Zhadsnark, alternative is Traktors) and for medium/light vehicles, as you're probably aware from Flyrant shooting.
Burnabomba should really be for when you know your up against cover heavy armies/hordes, it's a bit too specific for TAC purposes. I find that volume of shots from Warbikers or Lobbas do what the Burnabomba does just as well, if not better as they can do it Turn 1.
I've never taken more than two planes of any kind in any of my lists as I like to flood the board with Boyz as well as, you've pointed out, they can come in when it won't really matter.
I like taking Mogrok's Bossboyz when I take planes, allows me to outflank to get side/rear armour and further up the field to drop bombs.
Frozocrone wrote: I like the Deffkopta tactic. I use mine to Scout up my Warbosses on Bikes with PK. Free 12" movement to block line of sight, then flat out 24" to get closer and have the turn 2 charge ready.
Frozocrone wrote: True, that's why you use the Scout and Flat out moves to hide the BikerBoss from the enemy.
On turn two, you zip out, yell 'SERPRISE!' and start krumpin' 'eadz.
Good point. I usually got for the tank shock move and try to push something off the table. The last time I used Zhadsnark, killed a whole squad of cultist. They ran away because the orks are too scary.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another strategy is gun trukks. Kind of over looked, but its actually can be pretty good. Personally, I use zzap kannons because of the zzap rule. I usually take 2-3 of them and set them in my back field. Great for holding objectives and disabling enemy vehicles. Of course the zzap rule has no effect on super heavies, but you can screw up other enemy vehicles pretty good with it. This can be really good for disabling enemy tanks. Whatever big bad tank they bring. Zzap, now your opponent needs 6's to hit anything or is not firing. I wish you could put the new mek kannon onthe trukks, but at lase you can't. Hopefully when IA:8 2nd edition comes out they will change that.
Now if you want to protect these trukks, you can take a mek junka, give it the junka powerfield. This gives the trukk with in 6" a 5+ cover save.
Frozocrone wrote: True, that's why you use the Scout and Flat out moves to hide the BikerBoss from the enemy.
On turn two, you zip out, yell 'SERPRISE!' and start krumpin' 'eadz.
Good point. I usually got for the tank shock move and try to push something off the table. The last time I used Zhadsnark, killed a whole squad of cultist. They ran away because the orks are too scary.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another strategy is gun trukks. Kind of over looked, but its actually can be pretty good. Personally, I use zzap kannons because of the zzap rule. I usually take 2-3 of them and set them in my back field. Great for holding objectives and disabling enemy vehicles. Of course the zzap rule has no effect on super heavies, but you can screw up other enemy vehicles pretty good with it. This can be really good for disabling enemy tanks. Whatever big bad tank they bring. Zzap, now your opponent needs 6's to hit anything or is not firing. I wish you could put the new mek kannon onthe trukks, but at lase you can't. Hopefully when IA:8 2nd edition comes out they will change that.
Now if you want to protect these trukks, you can take a mek junka, give it the junka powerfield. This gives the trukk with in 6" a 5+ cover save.
My current 1850 list uses Mogrok's Bossboyz and Great Waaagh!. I take the Mega Kustom Force Field (4++) so save half the shots coming my way. If I roll Santic with the Wierdboy (footslogging boyz), I can bump that up to a 3++. Mogrok's one of my favourite formations and combined with the trollzy ability to DS some units with the Great Waaagh! detachment, gives you so much tactical flexibility that you can counter what your opponent does, or as I have done in the past against certain players, force them into a corner and deal with them there, while Grotz sneak around the back taking Objectives.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Quick question, for those running 30 man size footslogging Boyz, do you have 'eavy armour on them?
You don't really believe that do you cowboy? You're stating a character made for an older edition should function more effectively because FW never updates anything... Glad you're not a TO. If anyone expects to actually use this forum for a tournament, understand no tournament ever allows that except maybe local ones who feel us Orcs could use the boost.
I got your anger about my statement, guys. This loophole is certainly unintended by the person who was writing our new codex.
Perhaps if someone is going to run this at a tourney he should notify the organizers and it will be their decision whether it is legal or not. For casual play I would never even think about fielding guns with Zhard, not that I run any of them.
However, I see so much posts like "I-Can't-Beat-My-Neighbour's-Army-Ever". For this case the trick seems not so dirty.
Frozocrone wrote: Blitzabomba shines when running Zhadsnark lists, since you don't get KMK for Blast AP2.
RAW Zhardsnark prohibits taking BIG Guns, not MEK Guns as they are called currently.
You should call FW, because they will tell you that Big guns and mek guns are the same and if Zhadsnark is in you are army, you can take either one. Also, most event FAQ it. Good try tho.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frozocrone wrote: I think the ITC FAQ'd it as Zhadsnark's WL Trait only applies to his detachment, so take another CAD and stick Traktors in.
Of course, it breaks the fluff and is somewhat rules lawyery and un-Orky but eh.
Hopefully IA:8 is released soon.
I heard there is an IA:8 2nd edition that is in development. That was a couple months ago when I was talking to FW about some clarification on IA:8. I think they are getting tired of us calling them.
I sure hope so because you can't even buy IA:8 on their site right now and I've been wanting a copy. Does it gave the rules for Gun a Wagons? If not, where can I find those? In all these threads, I hear how useful they are, but I can't find the rules anywhere. (Gotta love GW. No centralized index of rules sources or anything like that to help you even know what is available for your army.)
I sure hope so because you can't even buy IA:8 on their site right now and I've been wanting a copy. Does it gave the rules for Gun a Wagons? If not, where can I find those? In all these threads, I hear how useful they are, but I can't find the rules anywhere. (Gotta love GW. No centralized index of rules sources or anything like that to help you even know what is available for your army.)
I sure hope so because you can't even buy IA:8 on their site right now and I've been wanting a copy. Does it gave the rules for Gun a Wagons? If not, where can I find those? In all these threads, I hear how useful they are, but I can't find the rules anywhere. (Gotta love GW. No centralized index of rules sources or anything like that to help you even know what is available for your army.)
Thanks for the response, Eldarain! Lightning quick and exactly what I was looking for. Talk about quality posting. Keep that up and you just might earn yourself a tip!
Happy to help. I know what a godsend that has been for me. I too was just checking it for where to find the Gunwagon rules. Need more Battlewagon turrets to get mine on the field.
I sure hope so because you can't even buy IA:8 on their site right now and I've been wanting a copy. Does it gave the rules for Gun a Wagons? If not, where can I find those? In all these threads, I hear how useful they are, but I can't find the rules anywhere. (Gotta love GW. No centralized index of rules sources or anything like that to help you even know what is available for your army.)
Thanks!
It is also possible to get IA:8 as a PDF if you look about. If you find then that you feel bad and want to pay for it, then simply do so when it re-appears on the FW site or when this second Ed comes out. Personally I think the vehicles in it are far superior to the current dex's vehicles. But here's hoping that the second ed doesn't bump up the cost of grot riggers and boarding planks! (5pt GRigs and 5pt BPlanks are the bee's knees)
I've been Eyeing Snikrot's formation. 4 units of Kommandos + Snikrot that can reroll cover saves if they don't shoot. I can't decide how many upgrades to give them. Instincts tell me to put a PK / BP nob in 3 of them, and 2 burnas in the last one, and keep the number of Kommandos to a minimum.
Rerollable cover saves are super nice. 3 PK's in the opponent's backfield is usually going to disrupt it pretty significantly. Does it work?
tag8833 wrote: I've been Eyeing Snikrot's formation. 4 units of Kommandos + Snikrot that can reroll cover saves if they don't shoot. I can't decide how many upgrades to give them. Instincts tell me to put a PK / BP nob in 3 of them, and 2 burnas in the last one, and keep the number of Kommandos to a minimum.
Rerollable cover saves are super nice. 3 PK's in the opponent's backfield is usually going to disrupt it pretty significantly. Does it work?
Sometimes. But i'd not put pk nobz in min squads. It's too easy to waste them. You basically loose one or two to shooting - even with rerollable cover, than one or two on overwatch and than all is left is a couple more wounds in mellee and you're dead before striking.
koooaei wrote: Sometimes. But i'd not put pk nobz in min squads. It's too easy to waste them. You basically loose one or two to shooting - even with rerollable cover, than one or two on overwatch and than all is left is a couple more wounds in mellee and you're dead before striking.
I was suspicious of this. But what I can't figure out is how big to make the squads. 7? 10?
ETA: Making them min squads makes ignore cover armies less threatening, so that is why I was considering it. Also most of the time they are screwing with the opponent's backfield so the units back there don't take much to mess up.
tag8833 wrote: I've been Eyeing Snikrot's formation. 4 units of Kommandos + Snikrot that can reroll cover saves if they don't shoot. I can't decide how many upgrades to give them. Instincts tell me to put a PK / BP nob in 3 of them, and 2 burnas in the last one, and keep the number of Kommandos to a minimum.
Rerollable cover saves are super nice. 3 PK's in the opponent's backfield is usually going to disrupt it pretty significantly. Does it work?
Sometimes. But i'd not put pk nobz in min squads. It's too easy to waste them. You basically loose one or two to shooting - even with rerollable cover, than one or two on overwatch and than all is left is a couple more wounds in mellee and you're dead before striking.
I'm just in the process of building an army for the first time since 3rd and I decided I wanted to run the Red Skullz as the core of my army. Still building and painting, so I don't have any real world experience - but I did finally go with two max squads with nobz and PKs, and two min squads with burnas.
Got 1500pt tournament coming at end of the month and after having my initial list of 8 SAGs denied, I decided to participate with bit more serious list.
Tournament setup is 1500pt, 1 CAD+ 1 AD/Oathsworn/Assassinorum, SHV max 550pt. Up-to-date Forge allowed. This limits somewhat as I can't use Greentide or Red Skullz formation.
I would like run Kan Wall, but it didn't perform that well last time... So I'm planning using footslogging based list instead. What should I use as support? Tank Bustas, Lootas or Mek Guns? I know all have their uses, but for example, can Mek Guns fill both Tank Bustas and Lootas role? I prefer to have three of the same instead of mixed force.
Sivious wrote: Got 1500pt tournament coming at end of the month and after having my initial list of 8 SAGs denied, I decided to participate with bit more serious list.
I am so gutted.... I have been wondering about SAG spam for awhile and would have been cool to see it played out. Why was it denied??
I mean, SAG mek + 2KMK's is a T7 unit that has 11 wounds and dishes out some serious pain. For even cheaper you can use lobba's, who match the SAG range. Every turn laying down 8 Pie plates is such a orky thing
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- An idea of mine; 2x Gorka formation.... 6 gorkanauts in a 1500 list
With Multiple CADs (or Unbound) you could get more.
Personally, I would be out of the event if they are not going to allow the Dread mob FAQ. I love my deff dreads. Whats the plan with the SAQ spam you got going here?
Personally, I would be out of the event if they are not going to allow the Dread mob FAQ. I love my deff dreads. Whats the plan with the SAQ spam you got going here?
As a local TO, and competitive player, I would encourage you to reconsider this approach.
From a TO's perspective, we are a relatively small community, and we need to try to support each other even if it sometimes means subjugating our own wishes to those of the group. Furthermore, if you are unhappy with a selected army comp not attending in protest isn't nearly as effective of an argument to alter the comp as attending, and politely requesting your preferred comp in the future. TOs want to run events with the biggest attendance possible, but someone that will refuse to attend because of a particular comp is someone that is unlikely to support events unless you allow them to write their own comp, and even then they may change their minds and become unhappy. However, someone that does show up, and is polite in a request to try out their preferred comp is very likely to see it in the pipe, because TO's love to experiment, and solicit opinions. If your preferred comp turns out to be unpopular, then it not become a regular thing, but it will get more of a look if you attend than if you don't.
From a competitive player's perspective, I love trying as many different comps as possible. I thrive when attending an event that makes the army I generally run not work effectively, because it forces me to rework my list, and to exercise my tactics in a different way. Basically it makes me a better player. Beyond that, the running of events has improved dramatically in the last 3 years to the point where Swiss Matching is used basically universally. The consequence of that is a reduction in the number of games that are blowouts. Each round is substantially more likely to match you with a opponent with a similarly powerful list and skill level. The great thing about this is your last game at any event is generally your most fun, and sticking it out helps you learn about yourself, and other local players, and makes it easier for you to curate a regular group of opponents that produce fun games.
I think the Dread Mob ban was mostly because of Kustom Stompa being underpriced and some old rules. Not to completely derail from my original intent, what you think of Meks added to Boy squads as challenge eaters/ hidden Killsaws? Worth of 45pt? How about in Mek Guns, are they obligatory Ld buff?
My challenge meks often outshine my nobs had the meks put a wound or two on SM characters while my PK nob manages to whiff all his hits! but hey dice.
Naked meks for challenges, same for Mek gunz. Although generally I hope not to have to use the LD check for my gunz, as a 50/50 is still awful odds for having your whole unit run off board
I recently had the pleasure of playing one of my friends in a very interesting game of WH40k. We used his Helm's Deep Table that he made. It was really awesome. He used a legion of Imperial fist and guardsmen to defend the fort and I used what I would call a siege style ork list. We played 2000 points and here is my siege list
Zhadsnark
Big mek on bike with KFF Pain boy on a bike
2x 19 'ard boyz with Nob BPPk 6 warbikers with Nob BPPK
Dakka jet
Fighta bomba
10 stormboyz with Nob with Big Chopa and BP
2x Battlewagons with deff rollas, graby klaws, and wrecking balls.
1 Big trakk squad with supa-kannons
Battle wagons made a mess of the wall. Had the Big Mek on bike in the middle of them follow them there as my other bikes made their way up the ramp to the main gate. The battlewagons ramed the wall and smacked it with the wreckin balls. Then the boyz got out next turn and assault the artillery that was on the other side. My bikes smashed the main gate and made their way through the outter keep. Needless to say ork speed really won the day.
So between pages 15 and 20 I think there was a post saying you can use the Great WAAAAAGH Detachment for the dread mob from forgeworld. If this is the case can I still run Mork/Gorkanauts in the same detachment? I love our walkers and I would like to try deepstriking them for fun.
cranect wrote: So between pages 15 and 20 I think there was a post saying you can use the Great WAAAAAGH Detachment for the dread mob from forgeworld. If this is the case can I still run Mork/Gorkanauts in the same detachment? I love our walkers and I would like to try deepstriking them for fun.
Nope, Mork/Gorkanauts are not part of the Dread mob army list. Its sad that they are not. I would expect that to change when the new IA:8 2nd edition comes out.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I know we talked about biker star being the best option for us competitive, but what about a small deffkopta star?
Warboss on bike with PK, BP, Cybork, and attack squig
Big Mek on Bike with KS, Cybork, Kustom force field and da lucky stick
Pain boy on Bike
attached to 5 deffkopas with 1 having a Buzzsaw.
This gives the star 10 wounds before characters. Scout and hit and run. Hit and run would be easier to get since the Warboss is Initiative 4. Now you can jink for the 4+ or turbo boost for a 3+. If you get shot with something that ignores cover you have 5++.
On the charge you have
4 posion attack
15 str 4 attacks
5 str 10 ap 2
4 str 9 ap 2 armorbane attacks.
Now you can run something really nasty and do two groups.
Bike star + deffkopa star
This are two I've been tinkering with in the same list, using Mogrok's Bossboyz and a CAD for 1850
Mogrok w/ MA, KMK Mad Dok 4 MegaNobz Weirdboy (rolling on usually Santic for +2 Strenth or +1 Invuln) Trukk
Big Mek w/ Bike, PK Big Mek w/ Bike, PK Warboss w/ Bike, PK, Boss Pole,Da Lucky Stikk Painboy on Bike 15x Warbikers with Boss Nob, PK
Supported by two units of 12 Tankbustas in Trukks, Outflanking Gretchin and Traktor Kannons for AA. Power Klaws in each unit,leadership 9 for one, Fearless on the other.
If anything, it should be fun and those Traktors can be used for backfield objectives as your Ob SEc Gretchin can outflank where you need them.
Deff Kopta stars work, but aren't as ideal as Warbike stars. Warbike stars rely on Zhardsnark (skilled Rider) + turbo boosting for a 2+ cover save.
Zhardsnark gives them scout, and makes them OS troops.
Getting Hit and run from Deff Koptas is good, but scout is wasted. Also, you can't take a character Deff Kopta to eat challenges, and it is harder to control objectives.
If Deff Koptas had Exhaust Cloud I think it would be a more viable strategy, but the difference between a 2+ and a 3+ on turn 1 is significant, and tanking on a Warboss is an expensive gamble.
tag8833 wrote: Deff Kopta stars work, but aren't as ideal as Warbike stars. Warbike stars rely on Zhardsnark (skilled Rider) + turbo boosting for a 2+ cover save.
Zhardsnark gives them scout, and makes them OS troops.
Getting Hit and run from Deff Koptas is good, but scout is wasted. Also, you can't take a character Deff Kopta to eat challenges, and it is harder to control objectives.
If Deff Koptas had Exhaust Cloud I think it would be a more viable strategy, but the difference between a 2+ and a 3+ on turn 1 is significant, and tanking on a Warboss is an expensive gamble.
I may too tired to remember this, but where are you getting the 2+ cover save from? I know you have a 4+ from jinking and then +1 to that for if you turbo boost? Its my understanding that the Exhaust cloud rule for him does nothing now, but I can be wrong.
There is also Night Fighting but that's first turn only.
I thought Skilled rider just means you ignore difficult and dangerous terrain? Night fight would help with giving you stealth, but you can rely on that all the time.
cranect wrote: So between pages 15 and 20 I think there was a post saying you can use the Great WAAAAAGH Detachment for the dread mob from forgeworld. If this is the case can I still run Mork/Gorkanauts in the same detachment? I love our walkers and I would like to try deepstriking them for fun.
Nope, Mork/Gorkanauts are not part of the Dread mob army list. Its sad that they are not. I would expect that to change when the new IA:8 2nd edition comes out.
Ahh oh well. I can't wait for it to be updated then. I did make a list with a different waaaagh detachment for the orkanauts. Oh well here is hoping it is updated soon.
cranect wrote: So between pages 15 and 20 I think there was a post saying you can use the Great WAAAAAGH Detachment for the dread mob from forgeworld. If this is the case can I still run Mork/Gorkanauts in the same detachment? I love our walkers and I would like to try deepstriking them for fun.
Nope, Mork/Gorkanauts are not part of the Dread mob army list. Its sad that they are not. I would expect that to change when the new IA:8 2nd edition comes out.
Ahh oh well. I can't wait for it to be updated then. I did make a list with a different waaaagh detachment for the orkanauts. Oh well here is hoping it is updated soon.
Nice, I don't know when the IA:8 2nd edition will be out. Well I just saw the results to nova. No ork players in the top 16.
I don't believe the armor change in zhad. Read his description in IA8. It literally says he eschews heavier armor for speed and maneuverability in combat. I get that it's what you want, but it was not an unintentional slip.
Well I ran the dread mob list from forgeworld and since I don't have any meka/mega dreads I think ill stick with the ghazghkull version for now. I was able to deep strike lots and that was great and I even allied my gork and morkanauts in with another great WAAAGH detachment but missing out on ere we go is huge. I failed so many charges due to losing that rule. So it was fun but I like the formation better as of right now. Deep striking deff dreads and orkanauts was a ton of fun though.
Nope I meant the forgeworld one where it just replaces the units you take in the force org. Then I took another great waaagh detachment for the orkanauts. It wasn't great but it was a ton of fun. The one game 4 deff dreads fell from the sky.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Although I do prefer the formation since it gives you ere we go.
Playing against a Decurion Cron army with some extra CAD crons thrown in. Judicator battalion and 3 wraiths. I lost on Maelstrom, but it was part of a campaign and I stole the relic (an item added by the campaign which I now have for the rest of the campaign - I got Grav grenades and Grav mine)
So Burna bommer was mightily underwhelming, I used the missiles to attempt to kill some warriors (thinking you know, AP4 would be a good start) but first shot scattered well off and second 2 simply killed a few warriors. The large blast bomb also scattering off. For its points, it felt truly underwhelming and I wont be bringing again.
Skorcha trakks were pretty good, easily made there points back, came on, burnt a unit of 5 immortals down to 1 immortal and the lord (which he was forced to use the ress-orb).
My SAG meks were in the lobba units, this gave me a 10W T7 unit that output a SAG shot and 2 lobba shots. Very useful, as the lobbas could keep up with the range and also could be shot at the parts of the unit I couldn't see with the SAG. For example some warriors half behind a building, i'd aim for the necron with the SAG and get as many as possible, while the lobbas could then also hit those behind the building, pretty certain they made their points back, even despite all the ridiculous saves on crons. I mean a 4+/4+RP from the Decurion was absolutely horrible to deal with. I think I like this little unit, it shoots every turn and against some less durable stuff im sure will fair much better. Sadly his main unit was shield Lychguard, so the AP2 from the SAG was useless against a 3++
Tank bustas struggled against his only vehicle - the walker. As AV13 reliably negated all the shooting and also all bomb squigs, then charging, his overwatch of D3 hits was enough to make it difficult, but in the end both units combined killed it, leaving me 1 TB after. Boyz units did ok, I think I spread them too thin, I had one unit of 10 boyz stuck in combat with 1 praetorian for 3 turns, he simply refused to fail his 3+/5+ and my Nob was whiffing all his hits. Overall he got some good cards which gave him a good starting boost, Destroy a vehicle (oh a trukk in my face), destroy something in assault, secure objective he was on and also score my objective because it was Spoils of war. So end of T1 was 1-4 for him. But overall great fun game and I learned a lot about damn saves!
Burna bommers are a no go
SAG lobba combo will be making some more appearances.
I've tried the 3 SAG Mek list and it was underwhelming. Too much cover for the AP 2 to shine.
Last week's game had an all time first for me: one of my 2 units of Tankbustas actually got First Blood, thus granting me an extra VP. Ended up winning the game by a few points but was still awesome! It was a lucky win too since I had my whole deployment zone full of Orks and the got Seize the Initative with a Droppodded Heavy Flamer Dreadnaught AND 2 Thunderfire cannons. I also missed an early crucial charge with my main Biker Unit due to be greedy! Orks are so durable though.
Yep orks are certainly tough. Or at least they are tough enough to take some damage and have a lot of expendable bodies. I prefer either a horde or dread mob myself.
My Iron Waagh went to an ork Apocalypse game. It was 12k of orks vs 12k of chaos. We almost won, but them dirty chaos players summoned back their daemons we killed. My lifta dropa battle wagon fired its D shot and get Ang'rath in the face. Did 10 wounds to him. Then chaos used an assault that allowed them to bring back d3 of the daemons that were dead.
BMek - Bike, Killsaw, GitFinda, BP, 3runts, SAG/KFF (Not sure which yet, think KFF most useful) Painboy - Orderly 2x17 Boyz - Nob, PK, BP mek mek -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So basically a nice big rush list.
All units go in a BW, painboy go with the boyz - as I think they probably benefit the most, later game they can jump into the meganobs unit. I think that I could drop the killsaws on the MANz, I could then also drop some of the kombi-skorchas and a couple boyz and pick up another Painboy for the other Boyz unit.
Automatically Appended Next Post: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think im going to have to re-think my list. I am playing harlequins in the next game and I have a feeling MANz will get eaten horribly by all the rending, not to mention if he brings a Shrieking shadowseer with the Mask, those 3D6 Ldrship checks will be putting out plenty of wounds.
Biggest threats will be?;
Harle's bring plenty of rending, HoW and ID weapons.
Fast moving and want to be in assault (potentially move, run charge)
All have Invuns (5+)
plenty of psychic and -ldrship modifiers
DJ can force me to fallback
How would you guys deal with harlequins? Lootas? large volume of shots to help deal with jinking skimmers and piling on wounds on their infantry. Staying in vehicles? By allowing them to charge my vehicles, I could then counter assault; as I think the casualties of the explosion are probably worth getting the charge. Does fearless prevent wounds from psy shriek?
So my local store is getting ready to run an escalation league. Normally I'm the judge and can not win, but this time i'm not the judge and I want to win. But i'm having a hard time coming up with a list that I like for the 500 point level. I have to keep in mind that this 500 points has to be used in all my games. I have several list ideals, just don't know what to take. Any suggestions?
First List (Red skull formation)
Boss Snikrot, 10 kommandos Nob BPBC with burna in the squad, 5 kommandos Nob BPBC with big shoota in squad, 5 Kommandos Nob with BPBC with rokket launcha, and 5 Kommandos Nob with BPBC with rokket launcha.
Basically a super sneaky ork army. Boss Snikrot will go with the big blob of guys and stay in reserve so they can come on from any table edge. I don't think this army would be very durable, but it defiantly gives me some strategic edge. First, I can go first and not deploy any of my guys during deployment since the kommandos have infiltrate. So I can step up in places to grab objectives and get side armor on some vehicles.
I've got to say, I'm a massive fan of pskers, and an excuse to bring an ork one is a brilliant opportunity for me! Of course they aren't great, and of course more big-meks or warbosses is pretty much always the better option. But I love them, and their psychic powers can be situational, but earn their points back at times. A usually 'meh' option when competitive list building though.
BMek - Bike, Killsaw, GitFinda, BP, 3runts, SAG/KFF (Not sure which yet, think KFF most useful)
Painboy - Orderly
2x17 Boyz - Nob, PK, BP mek
mek
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So basically a nice big rush list.
All units go in a BW, painboy go with the boyz - as I think they probably benefit the most, later game they can jump into the meganobs unit.
I think that I could drop the killsaws on the MANz, I could then also drop some of the kombi-skorchas and a couple boyz and pick up another Painboy for the other Boyz unit.
Automatically Appended Next Post: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think im going to have to re-think my list. I am playing harlequins in the next game and I have a feeling MANz will get eaten horribly by all the rending, not to mention if he brings a Shrieking shadowseer with the Mask, those 3D6 Ldrship checks will be putting out plenty of wounds.
Biggest threats will be?;
Harle's bring plenty of rending, HoW and ID weapons.
Fast moving and want to be in assault (potentially move, run charge)
All have Invuns (5+)
plenty of psychic and -ldrship modifiers
DJ can force me to fallback
How would you guys deal with harlequins?
Lootas? large volume of shots to help deal with jinking skimmers and piling on wounds on their infantry.
Staying in vehicles? By allowing them to charge my vehicles, I could then counter assault; as I think the casualties of the explosion are probably worth getting the charge.
Does fearless prevent wounds from psy shriek?
Well if you have the models I would run the dread mob formation. The mob wants to be in CC as well and leadership shenanigans will have no effect. HoW and ID will be similarly useless. Rending will potentially do damage if they are str3 or 4. If they don't have a ton of high str weapons to shoot you with the mob will chew through them.
Lootas could potentially work but their ld may cause them to run early. Fearless does not prevent wounds from pys shriek as far as I know. Staying in transports would be good. Also if you can a single gorkanaut can probably do a lot of work as well if you can't run the whole mob. Even against dreads the harlequins should have a hard time. If you keep the dreads near the other units they will definitely think twice about charging you.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Glitcha wrote: So my local store is getting ready to run an escalation league. Normally I'm the judge and can not win, but this time i'm not the judge and I want to win. But i'm having a hard time coming up with a list that I like for the 500 point level. I have to keep in mind that this 500 points has to be used in all my games. I have several list ideals, just don't know what to take. Any suggestions?
First List (Red skull formation)
Boss Snikrot, 10 kommandos Nob BPBC with burna in the squad, 5 kommandos Nob BPBC with big shoota in squad, 5 Kommandos Nob with BPBC with rokket launcha, and 5 Kommandos Nob with BPBC with rokket launcha.
Basically a super sneaky ork army. Boss Snikrot will go with the big blob of guys and stay in reserve so they can come on from any table edge. I don't think this army would be very durable, but it defiantly gives me some strategic edge. First, I can go first and not deploy any of my guys during deployment since the kommandos have infiltrate. So I can step up in places to grab objectives and get side armor on some vehicles.
I would personally run with two weirdboyz and as many shootas as I can get in two squads. If you can sacrifice a few boyz to make them both warpheads that's great but I wouldn't dip below 20 shoota boyz in each squad. I am not the most competitive but that has worked for any 500 point game I've ever played.
That sounds fine and all with a double weird boy list, but that means as the league progress, I'll have to keep the two weird boyz as my HQs. Might great for a small game, but not when you scale up.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Since this league is a true escalation league, I think my strategy to build a winning list that can scale from 500-1500 points. I think lets go with the double threat star.
Zhadsnark
Pain boy on a bike
Warboss, pk and BP on bike
warbikers
deffkoptas
These units will make up the core of my list. ideally I need them present in every list. Now the TO has not decided yet if he is going to allow named characters for the first week or two. So looks like I need to just run a warboss, boyz, and some deffkoptas to start. Which can still be a killer of a list.
Ya I would personally use them just because I footslog and in my area building that up to a tide would work better than trukk boys (I don't own 16 trukks so I don't have enough target saturation).
cranect wrote: Ya I would personally use them just because I footslog and in my area building that up to a tide would work better than trukk boys (I don't own 16 trukks so I don't have enough target saturation).
Well you can build for the whole green tide thing, but the event maxes out at 1500 point list. Also, you can supplement your target saturation with agro. Personally I take some heavy hitting units just because I know they are going to draw some fire away from the trukks. For example Big Trakk with Supa-Kannon. Your opponent has to deal with this right away or they will be pulling infantry off the table left and right. Plus if they are open-top, primary weapon kicks in and starts exploding transports. Also flanking gun trukk with supa-skorcha. This will drive players crazy. I've hide the trukk before and jumped out on a marine bike player. Wounds on 3's and every wound is a dead dude
Ahh those are some good ideas. After I make some dreads then big trakks will be next. Ya I either footslog or use the dread mob right now but the mob would not work for escalation at all. Well maybe for the 500 if you cram a gorkanaut in but that's not very nice.
cranect wrote: Ya I would personally use them just because I footslog and in my area building that up to a tide would work better than trukk boys (I don't own 16 trukks so I don't have enough target saturation).
If you keep the tide minimal it's not too bad of a point sink. I like to run 1 unit of armored boyz because your allowed to choose which boyz get the mob rule hits...put the hits on the armored ones and you almost never lose a boy to mob rule (assuming the painboy is still alive.) It makes the unit nearly fearless, except for fear (the only thing they fear is "fear" itself?)
You probably want a PK or two. If you do, nob placement becomes a critical issue in the blob.
The other benefit is you don't have to buy so many $35 trukks.
I could potentially run some dreads, still a few kanz short of the formation. I agree they would certainly help, as like mentioned they are Str3, so generally without rending they can't do anything. Although this is the list I came up with in the mean time. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2x 3 BigT squadron- 4 Big shootas, riggers, Board planks, Rams
painboy on bike Big mek, bike KFF 3 bikers, Nob, BC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So everything is in transports apart from the bikers, in total the shot output should be pretty devastating, the BigT squadrons themselves put out 36 Str5 shots, lootas put out 18-56 shots, the shoota boyz put out 88 shots. then gitz put out 30. Not to mention, by staying in the transports I avoid Psy shenanigans, while also if they try and charge me I get to overwatch with a shoota unit, loota unit and gitz unit.
So from that with T3 models almost all will be wounding, thus making the most of the volume of shots I have. Also the 5++ is then just as good as any other save due to almost no AP values.
Finally almost all transports are jinker's with low AV, low enough that even the Bigshootas should putout enough to pop them.
I'm thinking trying out the earlier mentioned tactic of combining SAG with Lobbas. Wondering though should I choose the Barrage from Lobbas or more AP2 from KMK? And should I drop one Tank Busta Trukk in favor of more beefier Mek Gun squads?
I dont play tournaments, though some of my friends do, so what i say might not really mean anything.
Ever done the Big Mek w/ Tellyportablasta, Da Lucky Stikk, and a squad of Kustom Mega-Kannons? Thats a pretty fething scary ball of firepower thats able to move and shoot and has a 2+ rerollable shield in front (with LoS to a poor grot when AP2 is involved).
I tried it against my Necron friend and he was not happy with that thing lol. Ball of boyz prevented him from assaulting it with Wraiths and i just outgunned him with lootas and that ball of KMK's.
Sivious wrote:I'm thinking trying out the earlier mentioned tactic of combining SAG with Lobbas. Wondering though should I choose the Barrage from Lobbas or more AP2 from KMK? And should I drop one Tank Busta Trukk in favor of more beefier Mek Gun squads?
Vineheart01 wrote:I dont play tournaments, though some of my friends do, so what i say might not really mean anything.
Ever done the Big Mek w/ Tellyportablasta, Da Lucky Stikk, and a squad of Kustom Mega-Kannons? Thats a pretty fething scary ball of firepower thats able to move and shoot and has a 2+ rerollable shield in front (with LoS to a poor grot when AP2 is involved).
I tried it against my Necron friend and he was not happy with that thing lol. Ball of boyz prevented him from assaulting it with Wraiths and i just outgunned him with lootas and that ball of KMK's.
I haven't yet tried the teleportablasta, seems too short a range for me and unless your in a transport or against an army thats going to come to you then you wont be using it till turn 3/4 IMO. But DLS, MAKMK's I have tried, which is a great combo
As for whether SAG with KMK's or lobbas, personally I like it with both, but I find the role is different with each loadout. With lobbas I was using it to clear infantry, the AP2 meant I'd potentially ignore all saves and the Str was just something nice if I rolled high. With the KMK's I find you want to be shooting Tougher or 2+ saves, where the SAG simply adds to that. What does your list need?
I prefer large Boyz blobs so I should have anti-infantry handled. I'll pair them with few KMK's.
What's your preference with Bustas? Single suicide wagon, all you can get, pair of mid-strength squads filling one role on your complex plan for victory? I'm currently thinking 3 trukks with 7 Bustas, but is it too much/too little?
I've shy'd away from the massive boy blobs due to the ease of splatting them and Mob Rule change. Now i refuse to bring more than 20 per squad, even footslogging.
Ive got 3 reasons for this.
1) Less than 20 we run into Trukkboy problems where their numbers are just too few to bother bringing them.
2) Bottlenecking. I had this problem before but because of Fearless i could usually ignore it. More than 20 models i seem to always end up congo-lining around terrain or barely moving at all.
3) Fear tests. For some godawful fething reason Fear is excluded from Mob Rule. We are the ONLY race that actually fears fear tests (badum tssh) because we are the ONLY race that wants melee combat thats either not immune to it (no fearless or atsknf) or practically immune due to LD10. Other races that are subject to it are already boned if they ever take it anyway like my Tau lol. By taking more squads at medium numbers, i limit the Fear problem somewhat. Nothing pisses me off more than a near full strength 30squad boy blob with Warboss/Painboy fail a Fear test. You'd think the Warboss at least would make the squad immune to it.
For those reasons i avoid big blobs now. Ive actually started avoiding the "boys before toys" motto as well. Heck my last Ork game at 2000pts i had 60 boyz lol im not even kidding (and those Necrons didnt know what hit them)
Vineheart01 wrote: I've shy'd away from the massive boy blobs due to the ease of splatting them and Mob Rule change. Now i refuse to bring more than 20 per squad, even footslogging.
Ive got 3 reasons for this.
1) Less than 20 we run into Trukkboy problems where their numbers are just too few to bother bringing them.
2) Bottlenecking. I had this problem before but because of Fearless i could usually ignore it. More than 20 models i seem to always end up congo-lining around terrain or barely moving at all.
3) Fear tests. For some godawful fething reason Fear is excluded from Mob Rule. We are the ONLY race that actually fears fear tests (badum tssh) because we are the ONLY race that wants melee combat thats either not immune to it (no fearless or atsknf) or practically immune due to LD10. Other races that are subject to it are already boned if they ever take it anyway like my Tau lol. By taking more squads at medium numbers, i limit the Fear problem somewhat. Nothing pisses me off more than a near full strength 30squad boy blob with Warboss/Painboy fail a Fear test. You'd think the Warboss at least would make the squad immune to it.
For those reasons i avoid big blobs now. Ive actually started avoiding the "boys before toys" motto as well. Heck my last Ork game at 2000pts i had 60 boyz lol im not even kidding (and those Necrons didnt know what hit them)
What's your current Boyz loadout? I'm usually running 20 Shoota Boyz w/ Boss Nob, Boss Pole and Power Klaw these days. 'Eavy Armour if I have points.
Vineheart01 wrote: I've shy'd away from the massive boy blobs due to the ease of splatting them and Mob Rule change. Now i refuse to bring more than 20 per squad, even footslogging.
Ive got 3 reasons for this.
1) Less than 20 we run into Trukkboy problems where their numbers are just too few to bother bringing them.
2) Bottlenecking. I had this problem before but because of Fearless i could usually ignore it. More than 20 models i seem to always end up congo-lining around terrain or barely moving at all.
3) Fear tests. For some godawful fething reason Fear is excluded from Mob Rule. We are the ONLY race that actually fears fear tests (badum tssh) because we are the ONLY race that wants melee combat thats either not immune to it (no fearless or atsknf) or practically immune due to LD10. Other races that are subject to it are already boned if they ever take it anyway like my Tau lol. By taking more squads at medium numbers, i limit the Fear problem somewhat. Nothing pisses me off more than a near full strength 30squad boy blob with Warboss/Painboy fail a Fear test. You'd think the Warboss at least would make the squad immune to it.
For those reasons i avoid big blobs now. Ive actually started avoiding the "boys before toys" motto as well. Heck my last Ork game at 2000pts i had 60 boyz lol im not even kidding (and those Necrons didnt know what hit them)
What's your current Boyz loadout? I'm usually running 20 Shoota Boyz w/ Boss Nob, Boss Pole and Power Klaw these days. 'Eavy Armour if I have points.
I used to run shootas strictly but since the new dex and changes to Waaagh! i went back to sluggas. By default i bring 3 squads of 20 boyz with a nob, klaw, bp, and a mek to eat challenges. Thats regardless of my tactic. The numbers shift depending on if im doing wagon lists, footsloggers, or biker heavy but not that much.
Since i adopted this 20man blobs i rarely have a squad not do something important. Even if they get shot up thats still enough dakka they soaked to let the rest of my stuff get through. I tend to play both my orks and my tau with the whole "sacrificial unit" mentality where i bring units with the sole purpose of pissing you off and delaying you more than damaging you.
Course i also bring 2 MANZ missiles every game. Love those things rofl
Sivious wrote: I prefer large Boyz blobs so I should have anti-infantry handled. I'll pair them with few KMK's.
What's your preference with Bustas? Single suicide wagon, all you can get, pair of mid-strength squads filling one role on your complex plan for victory? I'm currently thinking 3 trukks with 7 Bustas, but is it too much/too little?
I run two full size Mobs with BP Nob on foot. They normally do great things except last night against 2+ Armor save Warlocks on Bikes with Wychblades and 4++ Inv saves. He also dropped my Str down to 2 before assaulting. It was so embarrassing. He was rolling 17-19 psychic die per turn, needing 3+ instead of four, ignoring perils by spending a warp charge because, you know, Space Elves Majick!!!
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW, one guess how I finally killed that squad of, which was a formation of some sort with 2 HQ Psykers attached on Eldar Jetbikes: more dakka. A fresh unit of 14 regular BikerBoyz rolled on and even with 2+ I was able to kill 3 Warlocks. Then he assaulted me, killed 2 more to over watch, then we ground it out over 3 turns of assault. Thankfully the Mob rule actually kept me in the battle since, of course, he had hit me with terrify to reduce my Ld to 6!!
Awesome game I was able to win at bottom of turn 5 due to wiping him. He said at the end: "your lucky I didn't get the power that lets me reroll failed saves."
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW, one guess how I finally killed that squad of, which was a formation of some sort with 2 HQ Psykers attached on Eldar Jetbikes: more dakka. A fresh unit of 14 regular BikerBoyz rolled on and even with 2+ I was able to kill 3 Warlocks. Then he assaulted me, killed 2 more to over watch, then we ground it out over 3 turns of assault. Thankfully the Mob rule actually kept me in the battle since, of course, he had hit me with terrify to reduce my Ld to 6!!
Awesome game I was able to win at bottom of turn 5 due to wiping him. He said at the end: "your lucky I didn't get the power that lets me reroll failed saves."
FML Eldar are ridiculous!!
So my game against Harlie Elves's last night didn't quite go aswell as yours did. Where the mob rule seemed to save you the mob simply destroyed me. Started out I was steam rolling him, turn 1 I removed a whole 10 man troupe; I seized and then put a serious amount of firepower into it, rolling plenty of 6's for my lootas and gitz in my Big T squadrons.
However after turn 1 it was down hill. Maelstrom cards didn't go my way; I placed 4 objectives in a diamond pattern, had that side of the board and didn't draw a single objective card till turn 4. But generally it was my leadership that really failed me. Failed almost all ldrship rolls, which with the DJ, so -2 to LD resulted in my units running which ever way he wanted (typically towards a harle squad ready to assault), Every BP roll resulted in me either doing more wounds to my own units (Flash gitz take 1 casualty from DJ and then kill 2 of themselves - 6+ gitz).
Not to mention my WL BM on bike with bike squad and painboy failing a LD check and then failing BP roll, running, getting charged and getting wiped simply because they failed another check. It was just rediculous, he didn't even need any LD modifying powers and I failed almost everything. I know not all games will go that way but when the mob rule simply starts killing more models than the enemy its so depressing.
Taking an 1850 ork army only to spend most of the game tidying away units is sad times!
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW, one guess how I finally killed that squad of, which was a formation of some sort with 2 HQ Psykers attached on Eldar Jetbikes: more dakka. A fresh unit of 14 regular BikerBoyz rolled on and even with 2+ I was able to kill 3 Warlocks. Then he assaulted me, killed 2 more to over watch, then we ground it out over 3 turns of assault. Thankfully the Mob rule actually kept me in the battle since, of course, he had hit me with terrify to reduce my Ld to 6!!
Awesome game I was able to win at bottom of turn 5 due to wiping him. He said at the end: "your lucky I didn't get the power that lets me reroll failed saves."
FML Eldar are ridiculous!!
So my game against Harlie Elves's last night didn't quite go aswell as yours did. Where the mob rule seemed to save you the mob simply destroyed me. Started out I was steam rolling him, turn 1 I removed a whole 10 man troupe; I seized and then put a serious amount of firepower into it, rolling plenty of 6's for my lootas and gitz in my Big T squadrons.
However after turn 1 it was down hill. Maelstrom cards didn't go my way; I placed 4 objectives in a diamond pattern, had that side of the board and didn't draw a single objective card till turn 4. But generally it was my leadership that really failed me. Failed almost all ldrship rolls, which with the DJ, so -2 to LD resulted in my units running which ever way he wanted (typically towards a harle squad ready to assault), Every BP roll resulted in me either doing more wounds to my own units (Flash gitz take 1 casualty from DJ and then kill 2 of themselves - 6+ gitz).
Not to mention my WL BM on bike with bike squad and painboy failing a LD check and then failing BP roll, running, getting charged and getting wiped simply because they failed another check. It was just rediculous, he didn't even need any LD modifying powers and I failed almost everything. I know not all games will go that way but when the mob rule simply starts killing more models than the enemy its so depressing.
Taking an 1850 ork army only to spend most of the game tidying away units is sad times!
Ld has always been the bane of da Orks! At least since 3rd edition. That's what made the previous Mob Rule so awesome: Ld equals model count, 11+ is fearless. BP was a simple reroll. Considering 6th and 7th overall are a dumbed down, simplified version of the game, it's a head scratcher that they ADDED a new table, with modifiers.
I was also quite unlucky with my draws on Maelstrom cards. Cause a pinning test, to Eldar, whose basic troops are Ld 9!
I ran one unit of Max Lobbas (and one of max KMK's and a third full unit of Tractor Kannonz for testing purposes) and as in most games since forever, the Lobbas were my MVP's. 3+ Armor saves don't help too much when you have 17-21 wounds on a unit.
Its the new 7ed rule!
Everyone needs a table of magic randomness! Roll more dice!
Yeh lobba's are a regular feature. Even if they get charged turn 3, 5 blasts for 120 points generally make their points back by then. I have made a shift towards volume with most of my wounding, we don't have enough special rules like ignore's cover or lance to allow us to negate stuff. So I simply give them plenty of dice and watch them sweat.
I do want to try a list where i'm bringing 3x5 lobbas and use them for all my AI. Then focussing the rest of the list on hitting hard; probably another CAD and 3x3 KMK's! then flood the board with grots and make it hard to move
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW, one guess how I finally killed that squad of, which was a formation of some sort with 2 HQ Psykers attached on Eldar Jetbikes: more dakka. A fresh unit of 14 regular BikerBoyz rolled on and even with 2+ I was able to kill 3 Warlocks. Then he assaulted me, killed 2 more to over watch, then we ground it out over 3 turns of assault. Thankfully the Mob rule actually kept me in the battle since, of course, he had hit me with terrify to reduce my Ld to 6!!
Awesome game I was able to win at bottom of turn 5 due to wiping him. He said at the end: "your lucky I didn't get the power that lets me reroll failed saves."
FML Eldar are ridiculous!!
So my game against Harlie Elves's last night didn't quite go aswell as yours did. Where the mob rule seemed to save you the mob simply destroyed me. Started out I was steam rolling him, turn 1 I removed a whole 10 man troupe; I seized and then put a serious amount of firepower into it, rolling plenty of 6's for my lootas and gitz in my Big T squadrons.
However after turn 1 it was down hill. Maelstrom cards didn't go my way; I placed 4 objectives in a diamond pattern, had that side of the board and didn't draw a single objective card till turn 4. But generally it was my leadership that really failed me. Failed almost all ldrship rolls, which with the DJ, so -2 to LD resulted in my units running which ever way he wanted (typically towards a harle squad ready to assault), Every BP roll resulted in me either doing more wounds to my own units (Flash gitz take 1 casualty from DJ and then kill 2 of themselves - 6+ gitz).
Not to mention my WL BM on bike with bike squad and painboy failing a LD check and then failing BP roll, running, getting charged and getting wiped simply because they failed another check. It was just rediculous, he didn't even need any LD modifying powers and I failed almost everything. I know not all games will go that way but when the mob rule simply starts killing more models than the enemy its so depressing.
Taking an 1850 ork army only to spend most of the game tidying away units is sad times!
Ld has always been the bane of da Orks! At least since 3rd edition. That's what made the previous Mob Rule so awesome: Ld equals model count, 11+ is fearless. BP was a simple reroll. Considering 6th and 7th overall are a dumbed down, simplified version of the game, it's a head scratcher that they ADDED a new table, with modifiers.
I was also quite unlucky with my draws on Maelstrom cards. Cause a pinning test, to Eldar, whose basic troops are Ld 9!
I ran one unit of Max Lobbas (and one of max KMK's and a third full unit of Tractor Kannonz for testing purposes) and as in most games since forever, the Lobbas were my MVP's. 3+ Armor saves don't help too much when you have 17-21 wounds on a unit.
*Eldar are Ld 9*
*Checks DE Codex I have*
*Units are Ld 8*
Of course they are.
In Orker news, had a chance to try Tankbustas and MANz that Deep Striked (narrative mission in GW). MANZ did really well, Tankbustas would have won the game but I was required to roll to hit against a building as per the GW employee made me (forge the narrative and whatnot). BikerStar performed as it always does (no Zhadsnark, stayed away from FW for this event).
Eldar/DE dont need melee, and the main ones that will want melee are either fearless or not the main front of the army anyway. Orks need melee unless you wanna risk youre entire game on 5+ luck and hope to god there isnt anything Rokkits cant kill.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW, one guess how I finally killed that squad of, which was a formation of some sort with 2 HQ Psykers attached on Eldar Jetbikes: more dakka. A fresh unit of 14 regular BikerBoyz rolled on and even with 2+ I was able to kill 3 Warlocks. Then he assaulted me, killed 2 more to over watch, then we ground it out over 3 turns of assault. Thankfully the Mob rule actually kept me in the battle since, of course, he had hit me with terrify to reduce my Ld to 6!!
Awesome game I was able to win at bottom of turn 5 due to wiping him. He said at the end: "your lucky I didn't get the power that lets me reroll failed saves."
FML Eldar are ridiculous!!
So my game against Harlie Elves's last night didn't quite go aswell as yours did. Where the mob rule seemed to save you the mob simply destroyed me. Started out I was steam rolling him, turn 1 I removed a whole 10 man troupe; I seized and then put a serious amount of firepower into it, rolling plenty of 6's for my lootas and gitz in my Big T squadrons.
However after turn 1 it was down hill. Maelstrom cards didn't go my way; I placed 4 objectives in a diamond pattern, had that side of the board and didn't draw a single objective card till turn 4. But generally it was my leadership that really failed me. Failed almost all ldrship rolls, which with the DJ, so -2 to LD resulted in my units running which ever way he wanted (typically towards a harle squad ready to assault), Every BP roll resulted in me either doing more wounds to my own units (Flash gitz take 1 casualty from DJ and then kill 2 of themselves - 6+ gitz).
Not to mention my WL BM on bike with bike squad and painboy failing a LD check and then failing BP roll, running, getting charged and getting wiped simply because they failed another check. It was just rediculous, he didn't even need any LD modifying powers and I failed almost everything. I know not all games will go that way but when the mob rule simply starts killing more models than the enemy its so depressing.
Taking an 1850 ork army only to spend most of the game tidying away units is sad times!
Ld has always been the bane of da Orks! At least since 3rd edition. That's what made the previous Mob Rule so awesome: Ld equals model count, 11+ is fearless. BP was a simple reroll. Considering 6th and 7th overall are a dumbed down, simplified version of the game, it's a head scratcher that they ADDED a new table, with modifiers.
I was also quite unlucky with my draws on Maelstrom cards. Cause a pinning test, to Eldar, whose basic troops are Ld 9!
I ran one unit of Max Lobbas (and one of max KMK's and a third full unit of Tractor Kannonz for testing purposes) and as in most games since forever, the Lobbas were my MVP's. 3+ Armor saves don't help too much when you have 17-21 wounds on a unit.
*Eldar are Ld 9*
*Checks DE Codex I have*
*Units are Ld 8*
Of course they are.
In Orker news, had a chance to try Tankbustas and MANz that Deep Striked (narrative mission in GW). MANZ did really well, Tankbustas would have won the game but I was required to roll to hit against a building as per the GW employee made me (forge the narrative and whatnot). BikerStar performed as it always does (no Zhadsnark, stayed away from FW for this event).
LOL on the DELd! Seriously though my Mek Gunz units are so large (Max extra grots every time) that to cause a Ld against T7 absorbs a lot of enemy firepower. Other wise I also stay away from FW headaches. Codex Orks only, not even supplements, and I'm having a blast every game.
BikerBoss with Bikers and PB on Bike
Two full units of Tankbustas
2 min sized Grot Mobs
Maxed out Heavy Slots with maximum size mobs of Mek Gunz, 2 of which have HQ generic Meks.
I have not had mob rule issues yet but it will happen eventually. I tend to try and bypass LD checks to begin with by bringing as many walkers as I can because i just like our walkers. This includes the orkanauts of which I have 5. One of my favorites yet it taking the FW dread mob in the great waaagh detachment for deep striking dreads. It causes mayhem. Aside from the dread mob formation my other favorite is the red skull kommandos. Take the max size with power klaws for I think 820 points and you can fly up the field with the rest of your army and hit them from behind with the kommandos.
Mob Rule rarely ever does me dirty. The only thing about it that pisses me off is it doesnt mention Fear, and as i mentioned before were the only race that is vulnerable to Fear that it actually screws over. Everyone else is immune, LD10, or screwed whether they pass it or fail it anyway.
Charging big bugs actually poses a problem for orks because of Fear. Freaking hate that.
PipeAlley wrote:
LOL on the DELd! Seriously though my Mek Gunz units are so large (Max extra grots every time) that to cause a Ld against T7 absorbs a lot of enemy firepower. Other wise I also stay away from FW headaches. Codex Orks only, not even supplements, and I'm having a blast every game.
BikerBoss with Bikers and PB on Bike
Two full units of Tankbustas
2 min sized Grot Mobs
Maxed out Heavy Slots with maximum size mobs of Mek Gunz, 2 of which have HQ generic Meks.
Extra points go to more bikes or whatnot.
I like your style.
cranect wrote:I have not had mob rule issues yet but it will happen eventually. I tend to try and bypass LD checks to begin with by bringing as many walkers as I can because i just like our walkers. This includes the orkanauts of which I have 5. One of my favorites yet it taking the FW dread mob in the great waaagh detachment for deep striking dreads. It causes mayhem. Aside from the dread mob formation my other favorite is the red skull kommandos. Take the max size with power klaws for I think 820 points and you can fly up the field with the rest of your army and hit them from behind with the kommandos.
Yes. Out of approximately 12000+ points I have:
2 stompas
2 morkanauts
3 gorkanauts
5 deff dreads
16 kills kanz
Those are just the walkers and I have a few trukks and battlewagons and about 220 boyz, some lootas burn as and all that good stuff. I like the walkers the most though so I'm working on making some more dreads including meka and mega dreads.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I might even see if I can get more off eBay cheap in no just to use for conversions and such because there are 100+ prices in that kit I think.
i love our walkers. My complaint about them is solo deffdredds and expensive kanz. Kanz arent as bad since theyre still pretty good, but deffdredds just cant do ANYTHING without a trio of them which eats your FOC immediately. Ive ran the Wall of Steel formation in the past which is 2 gorks (or morks), 3 deffdredds, 9 kanz, big mek, and painboy where they all have D3 HoW and 'Ere we Go! - That formation is damn good because you can actually FIELD THEM in the numbers they require - drawback is i'd rather max out my kan units than split them into trios.
Im seriously hoping next Ork dex we get squadrons of deffdredds. Since they made Dreadnaughts come in squads, it would officially say GW just wants to raise the middle finger to Orks if we didnt get that too (or even higher numbers than 3). Deffdredd squads makes WAY more sense than Dreadnaught squads, but of course Imperials get the good stuff first like usual. Even if they dont need it.
I agree with deff dread squads. I also love the dread mob formation. Ere we go is a huge bonus. Also I think GWs intent was at least 3 kanz so that you couldn't bring them as singles. J would allow more in the squads personal.
The forgeworld one is ok. I use it paired the the great waaagh detachment to try and deepstrike some of them so at least something isnt blown up before it reaches combat. In my personal opinion the Ghazghkull one is much better purely due to the Ere we go rule. The FW one is a lot of fun and has other cool vehicles and such but Ere we go on walkers is huge. The ability to run and charge on the WAAAAGH and reroll one of the charge dice is just amazing. The d3 HoW is just gravy on top of that. Then again my dreads like to have ones rolled when determining charge distance. Thats my view anyway.
Frozocrone wrote: Vineheart01, have you ever considered the Dread Mob FW army? Deff Dreads can be taken in vehicle squadrons and as Troops.
Or do you feel Ere We Go and D3 HoW are too big a loss for squadrons?
I have, but it suffers heavily from outdated rules (least the last time i looked at it). Lot of rules make no sense, made obsolete, or potentially broken because the new ork dex changed things so much and the Dredd Mob didnt update with it.
If i could, i would totally field 9 Deffdredds, 2 Mega Deffdredds, a Meka Deffdredd, and a fistfull of Kanz just because i can lol. But i got a headache reading the rules and trying to make them make sense with the new dex.
cranect wrote:I agree with deff dread squads. I also love the dread mob formation. Ere we go is a huge bonus. Also I think GWs intent was at least 3 kanz so that you couldn't bring them as singles. J would allow more in the squads personal.
Cranect, if your looking for some more models to add to your walker collection.... How about some gundam models? I ordered a couple at about £20 each and am in the process of Orkifying them up! must admit they look badass! Yeh tournies might not like it, but I think you probably have enough official GW to not have to worry about bringing them
I run the dread mob all the time. I love it. Now you are forced to take a unit of spanna boyz. which is kind of cool. shoota boyz in a scrap trukk. Even tho you can put deff dreads in squads, I'm not a big fan of the vehicle squad rules. I have picked up another deff dread. So I was thinking about running 2 solo and a unit of 2. Then attaching the Kustom Mega dread to it. I think its funny he can repair things and himself.
Personally I take the FW dread mob in the great waaagh detachment because it has a ton of troops slots and they can deepstrike. This helps with the loss of ere we go but not as much as I would like.
Troops 24x Shoota Boyz
Boss Nob [Bosspole, Power Klaw, Shoota]
24x Shoota Boyz
Boss Nob [Bosspole, Power Klaw, Shoota]
24x Shoota Boyz
Boss Nob [Bosspole, Power Klaw, Shoota]
24x Shoota Boyz
Boss Nob [Bosspole, Power Klaw, Shoota]
Fast Attack Deffkopta [Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha]
Deffkopta [Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha]
Deffkopta [Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha]
Heavy Support 2x Kustom Mega-kannon
2x Lobba
I think it's looks pretty solid, while still having elements I like. Straightforward like most of my stuff. Koptas outflank, Bustas kamikaze at Knights and other big vehicles, Boyz try to survive past 3rd turn and kill something, Meks roll dice with Big Gunz.
I haven't used TBustas before, so should I have more/less?
The next Escalation league in my area is getting ready to start. I actually get to compete this time. So below is the list i'm thinking about running for 500 points.
Zhadsnark (why not? )
5 biker boy Nob BPPK
10 ard boyz in a trukk Nob BPPK
Gun trukk with kannon and rokket launcher.
Basically just going to rush the other side of the table and start kickin' teeth in. Thoughts?
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW, one guess how I finally killed that squad of, which was a formation of some sort with 2 HQ Psykers attached on Eldar Jetbikes: more dakka. A fresh unit of 14 regular BikerBoyz rolled on and even with 2+ I was able to kill 3 Warlocks. Then he assaulted me, killed 2 more to over watch, then we ground it out over 3 turns of assault. Thankfully the Mob rule actually kept me in the battle since, of course, he had hit me with terrify to reduce my Ld to 6!!
Awesome game I was able to win at bottom of turn 5 due to wiping him. He said at the end: "your lucky I didn't get the power that lets me reroll failed saves."
FML Eldar are ridiculous!!
So my game against Harlie Elves's last night didn't quite go aswell as yours did. Where the mob rule seemed to save you the mob simply destroyed me. Started out I was steam rolling him, turn 1 I removed a whole 10 man troupe; I seized and then put a serious amount of firepower into it, rolling plenty of 6's for my lootas and gitz in my Big T squadrons.
However after turn 1 it was down hill. Maelstrom cards didn't go my way; I placed 4 objectives in a diamond pattern, had that side of the board and didn't draw a single objective card till turn 4. But generally it was my leadership that really failed me. Failed almost all ldrship rolls, which with the DJ, so -2 to LD resulted in my units running which ever way he wanted (typically towards a harle squad ready to assault), Every BP roll resulted in me either doing more wounds to my own units (Flash gitz take 1 casualty from DJ and then kill 2 of themselves - 6+ gitz).
Not to mention my WL BM on bike with bike squad and painboy failing a LD check and then failing BP roll, running, getting charged and getting wiped simply because they failed another check. It was just rediculous, he didn't even need any LD modifying powers and I failed almost everything. I know not all games will go that way but when the mob rule simply starts killing more models than the enemy its so depressing.
Taking an 1850 ork army only to spend most of the game tidying away units is sad times!
Ld has always been the bane of da Orks! At least since 3rd edition. That's what made the previous Mob Rule so awesome: Ld equals model count, 11+ is fearless. BP was a simple reroll. Considering 6th and 7th overall are a dumbed down, simplified version of the game, it's a head scratcher that they ADDED a new table, with modifiers.
I was also quite unlucky with my draws on Maelstrom cards. Cause a pinning test, to Eldar, whose basic troops are Ld 9!
I ran one unit of Max Lobbas (and one of max KMK's and a third full unit of Tractor Kannonz for testing purposes) and as in most games since forever, the Lobbas were my MVP's. 3+ Armor saves don't help too much when you have 17-21 wounds on a unit.
*Eldar are Ld 9*
*Checks DE Codex I have*
*Units are Ld 8*
Of course they are.
In Orker news, had a chance to try Tankbustas and MANz that Deep Striked (narrative mission in GW). MANZ did really well, Tankbustas would have won the game but I was required to roll to hit against a building as per the GW employee made me (forge the narrative and whatnot). BikerStar performed as it always does (no Zhadsnark, stayed away from FW for this event).
LOL on the DELd! Seriously though my Mek Gunz units are so large (Max extra grots every time) that to cause a Ld against T7 absorbs a lot of enemy firepower. Other wise I also stay away from FW headaches. Codex Orks only, not even supplements, and I'm having a blast every game.
BikerBoss with Bikers and PB on Bike
Two full units of Tankbustas
2 min sized Grot Mobs
Maxed out Heavy Slots with maximum size mobs of Mek Gunz, 2 of which have HQ generic Meks.
Troops 24x Shoota Boyz
Boss Nob [Bosspole, Power Klaw, Shoota]
24x Shoota Boyz
Boss Nob [Bosspole, Power Klaw, Shoota]
24x Shoota Boyz
Boss Nob [Bosspole, Power Klaw, Shoota]
24x Shoota Boyz
Boss Nob [Bosspole, Power Klaw, Shoota]
Fast Attack Deffkopta [Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha]
Deffkopta [Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha]
Deffkopta [Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha]
Heavy Support 2x Kustom Mega-kannon
2x Lobba
I think it's looks pretty solid, while still having elements I like. Straightforward like most of my stuff. Koptas outflank, Bustas kamikaze at Knights and other big vehicles, Boyz try to survive past 3rd turn and kill something, Meks roll dice with Big Gunz.
I haven't used TBustas before, so should I have more/less?
I like this list. I would personally use slugga boyz but that's just personal preference. I think it should do fairly well.
cranect wrote: Personally I take the FW dread mob in the great waaagh detachment because it has a ton of troops slots and they can deepstrike. This helps with the loss of ere we go but not as much as I would like.
I am pretty sure you cannot combine them.
The dreamob FW army list is a detachment. The great waaagh is another separated detachment.
Sadly, only units from the great waaagh detachment can use the "tellyporta strike "rule, not all your army.
Actually you can. It is an army list that replaces the standard force org. Since it is outdated you can houserule it. I wouldn't try to bring it to a tournament without asking first though. I actually emailed FW and they said that since it is out of date just to houserule I and expect it to be addressed in the next faq/updated book.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So basically so long as your TO/opponent don't mind its perfectly legal. It is definitely a lot of fun though. Deep striking dreads is hilarious. Also I bring a second detachment with my gork and morkanaut and try to deep strike them too. I also personally have a no guts no glory philosophy to deep striking. It has mishapped once out of about 15 so far and normally I try to drop them within flamer range. Or behind a gun line that's fun too. My deep striking units hit more than my blasts of any sort...
i've always been underwhelmed by bomb squigs. Previously i hated them because they were somewhat pricy and literally did nothing to nonvehicles, which was annoying since vehicles that they can reliably hurt kinda vanished.
They fixed that. But then made it AP4 for some reason. Making it not very good against anything except vehicles once again. Still dont use'm
Bombs squigs are almost guaranteed hit and relatively cheap, but they have shorter range, AP4 and can't hit flyers.
I had practice match against (Traitor) Guard with the list I posted above today and Bomb Squigs scored one hullpoint out of 3 I managed to shoot. All hit, but others didn't pen or glan.
Rest of my list was as solid as I assumed it would be. Didn't lost any of Boy squads, though one was reduced to single Boy. Had great Ld-check luck.
Tank Bustas didn't proved themselves, but it was more because of my opponent being wary of them. They shot a lot, hit less. Mostly because I was either speeding forward or shooting at flyers. Other hand sole survivor of other squad scored me 3 VP by capturing Tactical Objectives. Definitely MVP of my team. Deffkoptas made suicide Outflank at opponents Wyvern and scored two hullpoints, one being weapon destroyed, other shaken.
SAG Meks and Mek Gunz didn't felt like they earned their points back. I got them to high-ground, but there was multiple 'mountains' blocking the LOS. I made some mistakes in deployment regarding range and LOS. SAG rolls were bearable, but opponent was vehicle heavy so they didn't do much. Warboss+Painboy combo would give better profit for points ratio, but I want to keep using Big Meks for personal fluff reasons...
In the end I won by 1 VP thanks to most of my Maelstorms being Obj.Secs from my end of table. This feels like decent army, but I wonder should I fine-tune it somehow. Changing squad or two to Sluggas, taking more competitive HQs, increase amount of Mek Gunz?
Bomb squiggs have tank hunters... What armor value were you shooting at that only 1 in 4 wounded?
Also in units of Tankbustas I usually take 5 in a trukk for assaults x2-3, or a single unit of 15 with 3squiggs a nob and bosspole. The latter is if it's a friendly game
Tank busters in general have tank hunter, its not a bomb squig specific thing.
Problem is S8 even with tankhunter is lousy against AV13/14 and thats the AV you actually have to worry about. 11/12 is usually not a problem unless its in the air.
Slightly off topic but thats why i despise the Broadside Railgun in the tau codex. S8 means absolutely nothing to me in terms of anti-vehicle, but auto-splat-wise its awesome.
Troops 24x Shoota Boyz
Boss Nob [Bosspole, Power Klaw, Shoota]
24x Shoota Boyz
Boss Nob [Bosspole, Power Klaw, Shoota]
24x Shoota Boyz
Boss Nob [Bosspole, Power Klaw, Shoota]
24x Shoota Boyz
Boss Nob [Bosspole, Power Klaw, Shoota]
Fast Attack Deffkopta [Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha]
Deffkopta [Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha]
Deffkopta [Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha]
Heavy Support 2x Kustom Mega-kannon
2x Lobba
I think it's looks pretty solid, while still having elements I like. Straightforward like most of my stuff. Koptas outflank, Bustas kamikaze at Knights and other big vehicles, Boyz try to survive past 3rd turn and kill something, Meks roll dice with Big Gunz.
I haven't used TBustas before, so should I have more/less?
Hope you don't seen Tau or Eldar. I think Shoota Boyz are the right choice for this list because of no Warboss meaning you can't declare a WAAAGH!. One thing I would take a look at is splitting the Tankbustas into 3 Squads of 5 each in its own trukk. It means you would need 1 more Tankbusta, and 1 more Trukk, but I like squad of 5 better than 7, because a group of 7 aren't really harder to kill than a group of 5. Also a group of 5 is super fun against jinking things. "Do you want to Jink?"
I'm not a fan of a squad of 2 Lobbas. Seems like you need 3 to make them worth it. Also, Ammo runts. If you split the KMK's into 2 squads you can deploy one KMK with a SAG BM at 2 different spots on the table. Maybe you were planning to put one SAG with the Lobbas, but Lobbas don't shoot at the same thing as SAG's. A Kannon is a bit better, because if your SAG is vehicle hunting it can shoot the single, and if infantry hunting you can do the blast. If you are using a Mek Gun to keep your SAG alive adding a few extra grots can give you a bonus.
Hope that helps.
Glitcha wrote: The next Escalation league in my area is getting ready to start. I actually get to compete this time. So below is the list i'm thinking about running for 500 points.
Spoiler:
Zhadsnark (why not? )
5 biker boy Nob BPPK
10 ard boyz in a trukk Nob BPPK
Gun trukk with kannon and rokket launcher.
Basically just going to rush the other side of the table and start kickin' teeth in. Thoughts?
I like this up until the Gun Trukk. Have you considered Deff Koptas or War Buggies instead? I love solo Deff Koptas with Rokkits.
Lobbas because of the Barrage rule become significantly better with each additional lobba. They would be much better in a squad of 4 instead of splitting it up.
Remember, Barrage does not fire the way blasts do. You fire the first shot normally, but whereever it lands dictates the rest. It can be a two-edged sword because if you wiff the first shot entirely, you wiffed them all, but on the flipside if you hit it you hit them ALL. Subsequent shots only use the scatter die, either flipping the blast in that direction (then right back to original position) or whereever you want long as it touches the original with a bullseye, even directly on top of it.
Ive devastated Marine units with this thing because i landed a bullseye on 3 models, and only one direction was a complete wiff so every single blast did 2-3 damage. Racks up REALLY fast with numbers.
I find AV13/14 not a problem with Tankbustas. Sure Rokkit Launchas could be better, but they do have Melta Bombs with Tankhunters. I caused 6 HP to an AV15 building with a unit of 7 Tankbustas in CC alone. Warboss w/ Da Lucky Stikk/Attack Squig and PK also does work, 50% chance to glance AV14/pen AV13.
To be honest I'm just waiting for my Tau friend to say 'Hey the Railgun on Broadsides are Destroyer weapons!' Orks be like, you killed one of the Boyz. Good shot sir!
I keep forgetting I have tank hunter!
DAMN! would have been very useful last game :(
Bomb squigs I like, you can take 3 in any squad size, so for 15 points - the cost of 1 TB, you can get 3 shots worth in a single salvo. Yeh may not always do something, but worth the chance with a larger guarantee on wrecking a vehicle in 1 turn.
Bomb squigs should have tank hunter - they are a weapon fired by the unit, even if you consider them as separate models within the unit; tank hunter is conferred.
Bomb Squigs do have Tank Hunters, since they are a shooting attack. I was just wondering whether to take them in a TAC list, given that there would be situations where they would do nothing (ie Skimmer armies).
Unless the *guaranteed* S8 hits are good enough to take anyway.
Ah I see, tbh, I often think for 15 points they are worth it. Your right, some games they do nothing whatsoever, but that's generally the rule in a TAC list anyway. I like them, it feels nice on the turn where you roll poorly and miss with all those 5+ rokkits and you throw the squigs at it too.
Solar Shock wrote: Ah I see, tbh, I often think for 15 points they are worth it. Your right, some games they do nothing whatsoever, but that's generally the rule in a TAC list anyway. I like them, it feels nice on the turn where you roll poorly and miss with all those 5+ rokkits and you throw the squigs at it too.
Squigs are a must for those with tankhammers. Another question is why would you pay so much for a tankhammer. Guess, it depends on the way you run them. Sometimes, acouple extra s8 ap3 attacks are worth 15 pts. For example, if you're running them with a megacharacter as a mini-deathstar.
ooh never thought about tank hammers in a mini-star, might have to have a ponder on that.
As for something slightly off topic; would you guys take a look at this list - Mealstrom games most likely, campaign, no special chars and no relics. My WL Big mek is also fixed. I want to bring the crons, as I have many and have never really played them
So overall i'm thinking of putting Crons central - going for a mid table dominance while Bikes on one flank, wraiths the other, wraiths go for tying up large units and the like, bikes just pump out the dakka and tank hunt where needed. Artillery just shells the living crap out of things!
Thoughts? I have done orky conversions for all! you should see my wraiths and spyder, they are rather hilarious!
You could probably save some points on the Lobbas by shaving off all but one Ammo Runt. Barrage works so that the closest gun shoots first (of which you only have one ammo runt for).
My point in reminding him bomb squiggs have tank hunters is because even going against av 13 each squig has an 84% hit chance and 33% with a reroll is about 50% of the time he should have glanced or pen'ed. So what sounded like a complaint that they didn't work because only 1 hit, means his dice rolled poorly, but could make others or himself discouraged in their use.
Beyond that, if he was firing at av14, it better have been the only vehicle on the table against a swarm army with tshirt saves. Otherwise there were better targets to shoot at in the only turn a small unit of Tankbustas shoots, turn 1. After that you're in charge range, at which point the squiggs are useless as you charge high armor targets.
Glitcha wrote: The next Escalation league in my area is getting ready to start. I actually get to compete this time. So below is the list i'm thinking about running for 500 points.
Spoiler:
Zhadsnark (why not? )
5 biker boy Nob BPPK
10 ard boyz in a trukk Nob BPPK
Gun trukk with kannon and rokket launcher.
Basically just going to rush the other side of the table and start kickin' teeth in. Thoughts?
I like this up until the Gun Trukk. Have you considered Deff Koptas or War Buggies instead? I love solo Deff Koptas with Rokkits.
I know the Gun trukk is a little odd, but for I have planned for the list I decided to put it in now. Its for an escalation league where once you up it in your list, it has to be in your list for the rest of the league. I like it for its tactical flexability. move 12" fire the main kannon. Either single shot anti-armor or blast marker for anti-personal. I do plan to add a full unit of deff koptas to the list. This is just my first week list.
koooaei wrote:I'd not shy away from taking a pk nob biker.
See I thought this; could you add some more reasons? My thoughts were any challenge situations I want a Nob to throw at it, but generally he is only there if I can't handle the challenge with the Big Mek (also I gain an increased chance of levelling up my WL by doing certain things; challenges being one of them - So anything the BM can handle I will be throwing him at). I thought against a Beatstick a BC means I might actually strike first or I might actually make use of it instead of dying before I swing.
Frozocrone wrote:You could probably save some points on the Lobbas by shaving off all but one Ammo Runt. Barrage works so that the closest gun shoots first (of which you only have one ammo runt for).
Is that how barrage works? I was pretty sure you can specify which model is shooting first? Hence 5 ammo runts means that every turn you can have a re-roll on the first shot?
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW, one guess how I finally killed that squad of, which was a formation of some sort with 2 HQ Psykers attached on Eldar Jetbikes: more dakka. A fresh unit of 14 regular BikerBoyz rolled on and even with 2+ I was able to kill 3 Warlocks. Then he assaulted me, killed 2 more to over watch, then we ground it out over 3 turns of assault. Thankfully the Mob rule actually kept me in the battle since, of course, he had hit me with terrify to reduce my Ld to 6!!
Awesome game I was able to win at bottom of turn 5 due to wiping him. He said at the end: "your lucky I didn't get the power that lets me reroll failed saves."
FML Eldar are ridiculous!!
So my game against Harlie Elves's last night didn't quite go aswell as yours did. Where the mob rule seemed to save you the mob simply destroyed me. Started out I was steam rolling him, turn 1 I removed a whole 10 man troupe; I seized and then put a serious amount of firepower into it, rolling plenty of 6's for my lootas and gitz in my Big T squadrons.
However after turn 1 it was down hill. Maelstrom cards didn't go my way; I placed 4 objectives in a diamond pattern, had that side of the board and didn't draw a single objective card till turn 4. But generally it was my leadership that really failed me. Failed almost all ldrship rolls, which with the DJ, so -2 to LD resulted in my units running which ever way he wanted (typically towards a harle squad ready to assault), Every BP roll resulted in me either doing more wounds to my own units (Flash gitz take 1 casualty from DJ and then kill 2 of themselves - 6+ gitz).
Not to mention my WL BM on bike with bike squad and painboy failing a LD check and then failing BP roll, running, getting charged and getting wiped simply because they failed another check. It was just rediculous, he didn't even need any LD modifying powers and I failed almost everything. I know not all games will go that way but when the mob rule simply starts killing more models than the enemy its so depressing.
Taking an 1850 ork army only to spend most of the game tidying away units is sad times!
Ld has always been the bane of da Orks! At least since 3rd edition. That's what made the previous Mob Rule so awesome: Ld equals model count, 11+ is fearless. BP was a simple reroll. Considering 6th and 7th overall are a dumbed down, simplified version of the game, it's a head scratcher that they ADDED a new table, with modifiers.
I was also quite unlucky with my draws on Maelstrom cards. Cause a pinning test, to Eldar, whose basic troops are Ld 9!
I ran one unit of Max Lobbas (and one of max KMK's and a third full unit of Tractor Kannonz for testing purposes) and as in most games since forever, the Lobbas were my MVP's. 3+ Armor saves don't help too much when you have 17-21 wounds on a unit.
*Eldar are Ld 9*
*Checks DE Codex I have*
*Units are Ld 8*
Of course they are.
In Orker news, had a chance to try Tankbustas and MANz that Deep Striked (narrative mission in GW). MANZ did really well, Tankbustas would have won the game but I was required to roll to hit against a building as per the GW employee made me (forge the narrative and whatnot). BikerStar performed as it always does (no Zhadsnark, stayed away from FW for this event).
LOL on the DELd! Seriously though my Mek Gunz units are so large (Max extra grots every time) that to cause a Ld against T7 absorbs a lot of enemy firepower. Other wise I also stay away from FW headaches. Codex Orks only, not even supplements, and I'm having a blast every game.
BikerBoss with Bikers and PB on Bike
Two full units of Tankbustas
2 min sized Grot Mobs
Maxed out Heavy Slots with maximum size mobs of Mek Gunz, 2 of which have HQ generic Meks.
Extra points go to more bikes or whatnot.
How do you transport the bustas?
On foot. We usually play on tables with 25% terrain. Literally put terrain in 1/4 of the table until it fills, then space it out for the four quadrants. Grots may or may not walk in front as a meat shield. Usually bikes are in front for deployment. So I'm relying heavily on cover, as I have for the past decade. Playing against Tau sucks
But considering all the bikes and Mek Gunz, Tankbustas are usually ignored. Even with 15, usually only 5 hit. Then opponent usually has cover. So the opp. correctly ignores them until they get in assault range. They used to be Lootas until the latest codex dropped and Lootas (sadly) moved to Heavy. Mek Gunz are just too damn hot! So my Lootas became TB's.
My Lootas/TB's/Rokkit boyz are Gorka Morka era models with the slugga arm removed and an IG missile launcher added.
Assaulting AV13/14 with Tankbustas doesnt really count as being able to deal with them lol. Thats the Ork answer for them to begin with, and 9/10 of the time the only answer. Unless i had nothing else in the area to deal with an AV13/14 vehicle in the assault phase i'd much rather fire their rokkits at something else than fire and probably do nothing so i can assault and risk death by explosion lol.
So If I was going up against a SMTAC list, what would be the best way to get tankbustas where they need to go? Trukks? BWs? How do you guys kit them out (squad size?)
Against SMTAC? May as well take a unit or two of 12 in battle wagons with kill kannons. Gives you a ton of AP 3. Flashgitz are good against SM also since 50% of the time they are ap3. And kmks are good for ap2.
FratHammer wrote: Against SMTAC? May as well take a unit or two of 12 in battle wagons with kill kannons. Gives you a ton of AP 3. Flashgitz are good against SM also since 50% of the time they are ap3. And kmks are good for ap2.
this, except id put busta's in trukks and boyz in KillKannon wagons. Spread the AP3 love around. If you put AP3 busta's in an AP3 wagon I can tell you what his first target is going to be! But that's my personal preference. But yeh what frat said, if you know its marines;
Busta's
KMK's
Killkannons
FratHammer wrote: Against SMTAC? May as well take a unit or two of 12 in battle wagons with kill kannons. Gives you a ton of AP 3. Flashgitz are good against SM also since 50% of the time they are ap3. And kmks are good for ap2.
this, except id put busta's in trukks and boyz in KillKannon wagons. Spread the AP3 love around. If you put AP3 busta's in an AP3 wagon I can tell you what his first target is going to be! But that's my personal preference. But yeh what frat said, if you know its marines;
Busta's
KMK's
Killkannons
I kind of agree. BW's are more durable, but three units of Tankbustas in Trukks might be just as effective as 2x12. Force an opponent to decide between units of equal threat. Then if one gets wrecked on the way across the board, the others can still do their thing.
Played the 1500pt Maelstorm tournament today. Small changes to list like adding single Traktor Kannon.
First match against other Ork-list! It was rare. Nob Biker deathstar. Managed to pick my boyz one mob a time, I was wiped-out at the end. Made mistakes, not much to say. First unit to fire, SAG-Mek rolled double 1's.
Second match against Khorne Daemonkin feat Tzeentch ally. Bloodhounds managed to slip directly at Warlord, Vanguard strike deployment is hard to grasp. Biggest downside was succeeding in Assassinate and No prisoners at opponent's turn. I would have needed those 2 VPs as we tied in the end.
Last match was against Imperial Guard Paski ft. Stormsword. 10" pie eats half boy squad and Paski blasts another squad to half. My turn, infiltrated Tankbustas surprise with assaultrush and overkill the Paski-squadron. Opponent does silly mistakes through the match and I catch Tactical Objectives here and there. Win 15-5 when time ends.
Overall I ended up at 9/12, which is rank higher than I aimed at, so all good.
Bustas work, especially since I remembered the Tank Hunter this time, just didn't got much vehicles against me. Boyz does waht boyz do, catch objectives, soak up fire and bash heads. Mob rule was fair. Traktor, Lobbas, KMKs all work, even better when full size I'll assume. I'm bit too greedy with outflanking Koptas, I should leave one as hidden Linebreaker instead of throwing them all at first obvious target. SAGs disappoint again, random strength isn't reliable at all. But I want to run Mek-list because personal fluff. Time to revert back to KFFs I guess.
Oh also, I always suggest a kff or mff bike, or a sag bike against Marines. The FF bike can be hidden behind the bws with the tank bustas in it. And if you spread threat priority by adding a trukk with 3 manz, and some bikers with your bikerboss it's possible they will focus elsewhere. Though their dedicated anti tank was going into your bws anyway, but av 14 with a 5++ or 4++, is not the worst. I can understand spreading out the love with them in trukks, but against Marines I rarely take boys at all. My troops are minimum Gretchin squads to fit max ap2-3. Marines bring so few models to a table, that the more models with ap3 we can bring, the more likely we are to kick their teeth in.
Also if you do the mff, and use the Waaaghh Ghaz detachment, you get 5 elite slots. Which could net you 3bustas in wagons with killkannons and 2manz missles or 2tankbustas/3manz missles. How about that for confusing target priority that's only like 1228~pts? Of the top of my head... Plenty of room for grots, a mff, some kmks, maybe a sag... Seems fun.
Waaagh detachment is seriously underrated. Five elite slots really opens up the amount of Tankbustas/MANz you can take.
The Orkimedes are pretty good as well. Fearless for a BikerStar is amazing, as is a 4++ for small Deffstars.
I once managed to roll Sanctuary on the Wierdboy who was with a MA Big Mek w/ MFF, 4 MANz and Mad Dok. It was expensive with all the characters but Fearless 2+ 3++ 5+++ models was tough to remove once I zipped up in the Trukk. Also helped that I rolled Hammerhand in the same game so I was looking at 21 S10 Ap2 attacks on the charge, potentially more with Rampage xD
You actually used Sanc on a weirdboy and didnt fry your brains immediately?
I refuse to use the demon spells because literally every time i try i fry my brains. Theyre juicy good spells but i typically get 2 spells off and im down to 1 wound or dead.
Ork specific spells arent something to scoff at anyway. Getting Warpath on a squad of 20+ slugga boyz is hilarious lol
FratHammer wrote: Also if you do the mff, and use the Waaaghh Ghaz detachment, you get 5 elite slots. Which could net you 3bustas in wagons with killkannons and 2manz missles or 2tankbustas/3manz missles. How about that for confusing target priority that's only like 1228~pts? Of the top of my head... Plenty of room for grots, a mff, some kmks, maybe a sag... Seems fun.
I recommend against using the Waaaghh Ghaz detachment for MANZ missiles. When their Trukk dies, and they have to take a pinning test, the +2 to Mob rule makes you 64% more likely to fail. (18% compared to 28%)
That is a pretty significant difference. A Pinned unit of MANZ is a failed MANZ Missile.
It's 50% with a reroll once they are in combat, if they fail combat somehow.
But yes, that's why you keep the cost at 155-160pts total max or put mad doc/megamek/megaboss with them increasing the chances they are fine. Not to mention leadership is passed 50% of the time without resorting to the mob rule.
With that many threats on the table... Should be awesome to see
Yeah that +2 to Mob Rule is the biggest nerf to orks ever. Its a 50-50 auto fail at range since 1-3 results are autofail if you are not in combat. Complete utter trash. That rule alone makes me loathe that supp and wish i never bought the dumb thing.
If they wanted to make Mob Rule better without reverting it to oldschool Mob Rule, then they should have gone with "Can modify the result by +/-1 as the player sees fit" so you can effectively double your odds at getting the result that just needs a Character to go off, or a 1-2 result in combat to autopass. Right now its just a giant middle finger to nonmelee morale checks.
Vineheart01 wrote: Yeah that +2 to Mob Rule is the biggest nerf to orks ever. Its a 50-50 auto fail at range since 1-3 results are autofail if you are not in combat. Complete utter trash. That rule alone makes me loathe that supp and wish i never bought the dumb thing.
If they wanted to make Mob Rule better without reverting it to oldschool Mob Rule, then they should have gone with "Can modify the result by +/-1 as the player sees fit" so you can effectively double your odds at getting the result that just needs a Character to go off, or a 1-2 result in combat to autopass. Right now its just a giant middle finger to nonmelee morale checks.
I think you got it a bit wrong. +2 means that it's a middle finger only to smaller units. Units that have >10 models and a character autopass. Albeit, recieve stronger beating. On the other hand, it's usually taken for MFF to accompany a stompa and/or BBP to run your big mobs. With stompa, stuff around it is fearless and with BBP, well, fearless too.
We must not forget that this supplement has been written when GW was on it's easy side - Black legion, IG, Militarum Tempestus. They wanted to avoid power creep and make stuff fluffier. Hence warlord traits are as fluffy and fitting as they can get while being pretty useless in actual games. Only crusader is fine. Must say that of all the supplements from that time, Ghaz is probably the toughest one. Half of the formations are good enough to use. As a standalone army...well, it failed purely cause of mob rule, i aggree here.
Although 
