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 Frozocrone wrote:
Blitzabomba shines when running Zhadsnark lists, since you don't get KMK for Blast AP2.

RAW Zhardsnark prohibits taking BIG Guns, not MEK Guns as they are called currently.

 Glitcha wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
True, that's why you use the Scout and Flat out moves to hide the BikerBoss from the enemy.

On turn two, you zip out, yell 'SERPRISE!' and start krumpin' 'eadz.

Good point. I usually got for the tank shock move and try to push something off the table. The last time I used Zhadsnark, killed a whole squad of cultist. They ran away because the orks are too scary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another strategy is gun trukks. Kind of over looked, but its actually can be pretty good. Personally, I use zzap kannons because of the zzap rule. I usually take 2-3 of them and set them in my back field. Great for holding objectives and disabling enemy vehicles. Of course the zzap rule has no effect on super heavies, but you can screw up other enemy vehicles pretty good with it. This can be really good for disabling enemy tanks. Whatever big bad tank they bring. Zzap, now your opponent needs 6's to hit anything or is not firing. I wish you could put the new mek kannon onthe trukks, but at lase you can't. Hopefully when IA:8 2nd edition comes out they will change that.

Now if you want to protect these trukks, you can take a mek junka, give it the junka powerfield. This gives the trukk with in 6" a 5+ cover save.

My current 1850 list uses Mogrok's Bossboyz and Great Waaagh!. I take the Mega Kustom Force Field (4++) so save half the shots coming my way. If I roll Santic with the Wierdboy (footslogging boyz), I can bump that up to a 3++. Mogrok's one of my favourite formations and combined with the trollzy ability to DS some units with the Great Waaagh! detachment, gives you so much tactical flexibility that you can counter what your opponent does, or as I have done in the past against certain players, force them into a corner and deal with them there, while Grotz sneak around the back taking Objectives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quick question, for those running 30 man size footslogging Boyz, do you have 'eavy armour on them?

I dont use eavy armor on 30 man squads just because it is way too expensive and anything you need to worry about will probably ignore it anyway.

You don't really believe that do you cowboy? You're stating a character made for an older edition should function more effectively because FW never updates anything... Glad you're not a TO. If anyone expects to actually use this forum for a tournament, understand no tournament ever allows that except maybe local ones who feel us Orcs could use the boost.

I think the ITC FAQ'd it as Zhadsnark's WL Trait only applies to his detachment, so take another CAD and stick Traktors in.

Of course, it breaks the fluff and is somewhat rules lawyery and un-Orky but eh.

Hopefully IA:8 is released soon.

I got your anger about my statement, guys. This loophole is certainly unintended by the person who was writing our new codex.
Perhaps if someone is going to run this at a tourney he should notify the organizers and it will be their decision whether it is legal or not. For casual play I would never even think about fielding guns with Zhard, not that I run any of them.
However, I see so much posts like "I-Can't-Beat-My-Neighbour's-Army-Ever". For this case the trick seems not so dirty.

Cowboy_Jerry wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Blitzabomba shines when running Zhadsnark lists, since you don't get KMK for Blast AP2.

RAW Zhardsnark prohibits taking BIG Guns, not MEK Guns as they are called currently.

You should call FW, because they will tell you that Big guns and mek guns are the same and if Zhadsnark is in you are army, you can take either one. Also, most event FAQ it. Good try tho.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frozocrone wrote:
I think the ITC FAQ'd it as Zhadsnark's WL Trait only applies to his detachment, so take another CAD and stick Traktors in.

Of course, it breaks the fluff and is somewhat rules lawyery and un-Orky but eh.

Hopefully IA:8 is released soon.

I heard there is an IA:8 2nd edition that is in development. That was a couple months ago when I was talking to FW about some clarification on IA:8. I think they are getting tired of us calling them.

I sure hope so because you can't even buy IA:8 on their site right now and I've been wanting a copy. Does it gave the rules for Gun a Wagons? If not, where can I find those? In all these threads, I hear how useful they are, but I can't find the rules anywhere. (Gotta love GW. No centralized index of rules sources or anything like that to help you even know what is available for your army.)

Thanks!

 The Riddle of Steel wrote:

I sure hope so because you can't even buy IA:8 on their site right now and I've been wanting a copy. Does it gave the rules for Gun a Wagons? If not, where can I find those? In all these threads, I hear how useful they are, but I can't find the rules anywhere. (Gotta love GW. No centralized index of rules sources or anything like that to help you even know what is available for your army.)

Thanks!

Frontline Gaming tries to keep everything sorted out.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BpdR4s9sOcbDEv8S2mJUIUK2gtsOS8ZnfxRrcm1-n-U/pub?output=html

 Eldarain wrote:

 The Riddle of Steel wrote:

I sure hope so because you can't even buy IA:8 on their site right now and I've been wanting a copy. Does it gave the rules for Gun a Wagons? If not, where can I find those? In all these threads, I hear how useful they are, but I can't find the rules anywhere. (Gotta love GW. No centralized index of rules sources or anything like that to help you even know what is available for your army.)

Thanks!

Frontline Gaming tries to keep everything sorted out.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BpdR4s9sOcbDEv8S2mJUIUK2gtsOS8ZnfxRrcm1-n-U/pub?output=html

Thanks for the response, Eldarain! Lightning quick and exactly what I was looking for. Talk about quality posting. Keep that up and you just might earn yourself a tip!

Happy to help. I know what a godsend that has been for me. I too was just checking it for where to find the Gunwagon rules. Need more Battlewagon turrets to get mine on the field.

 The Riddle of Steel wrote:

I sure hope so because you can't even buy IA:8 on their site right now and I've been wanting a copy. Does it gave the rules for Gun a Wagons? If not, where can I find those? In all these threads, I hear how useful they are, but I can't find the rules anywhere. (Gotta love GW. No centralized index of rules sources or anything like that to help you even know what is available for your army.)

Thanks!

It is also possible to get IA:8 as a PDF if you look about. If you find then that you feel bad and want to pay for it, then simply do so when it re-appears on the FW site or when this second Ed comes out. Personally I think the vehicles in it are far superior to the current dex's vehicles. But here's hoping that the second ed doesn't bump up the cost of grot riggers and boarding planks! (5pt GRigs and 5pt BPlanks are the bee's knees)

I've been Eyeing Snikrot's formation. 4 units of Kommandos + Snikrot that can reroll cover saves if they don't shoot. I can't decide how many upgrades to give them. Instincts tell me to put a PK / BP nob in 3 of them, and 2 burnas in the last one, and keep the number of Kommandos to a minimum.

Rerollable cover saves are super nice. 3 PK's in the opponent's backfield is usually going to disrupt it pretty significantly. Does it work?

tag8833 wrote:
I've been Eyeing Snikrot's formation. 4 units of Kommandos + Snikrot that can reroll cover saves if they don't shoot. I can't decide how many upgrades to give them. Instincts tell me to put a PK / BP nob in 3 of them, and 2 burnas in the last one, and keep the number of Kommandos to a minimum.

Rerollable cover saves are super nice. 3 PK's in the opponent's backfield is usually going to disrupt it pretty significantly. Does it work?

Sometimes. But i'd not put pk nobz in min squads. It's too easy to waste them. You basically loose one or two to shooting - even with rerollable cover, than one or two on overwatch and than all is left is a couple more wounds in mellee and you're dead before striking.

 koooaei wrote:
Sometimes. But i'd not put pk nobz in min squads. It's too easy to waste them. You basically loose one or two to shooting - even with rerollable cover, than one or two on overwatch and than all is left is a couple more wounds in mellee and you're dead before striking.

I was suspicious of this. But what I can't figure out is how big to make the squads. 7? 10?

ETA: Making them min squads makes ignore cover armies less threatening, so that is why I was considering it. Also most of the time they are screwing with the opponent's backfield so the units back there don't take much to mess up.

 koooaei wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
I've been Eyeing Snikrot's formation. 4 units of Kommandos + Snikrot that can reroll cover saves if they don't shoot. I can't decide how many upgrades to give them. Instincts tell me to put a PK / BP nob in 3 of them, and 2 burnas in the last one, and keep the number of Kommandos to a minimum.

Rerollable cover saves are super nice. 3 PK's in the opponent's backfield is usually going to disrupt it pretty significantly. Does it work?

Sometimes. But i'd not put pk nobz in min squads. It's too easy to waste them. You basically loose one or two to shooting - even with rerollable cover, than one or two on overwatch and than all is left is a couple more wounds in mellee and you're dead before striking.

I'm just in the process of building an army for the first time since 3rd and I decided I wanted to run the Red Skullz as the core of my army. Still building and painting, so I don't have any real world experience - but I did finally go with two max squads with nobz and PKs, and two min squads with burnas.

I actually started a thread about this a month or two ago and got some good feedback I thought: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/658425.page

Got 1500pt tournament coming at end of the month and after having my initial list of 8 SAGs denied, I decided to participate with bit more serious list.

Tournament setup is 1500pt, 1 CAD+ 1 AD/Oathsworn/Assassinorum, SHV max 550pt. Up-to-date Forge allowed. This limits somewhat as I can't use Greentide or Red Skullz formation.

I would like run Kan Wall, but it didn't perform that well last time... So I'm planning using footslogging based list instead. What should I use as support? Tank Bustas, Lootas or Mek Guns? I know all have their uses, but for example, can Mek Guns fill both Tank Bustas and Lootas role? I prefer to have three of the same instead of mixed force.

2 units of Mek Gunz and Lootaz do backfield support very well for Footsloggaz.

Tankbustas need a transport - which will promptly get shot at by any AT the opponent has.

Sivious wrote:
Got 1500pt tournament coming at end of the month and after having my initial list of 8 SAGs denied, I decided to participate with bit more serious list.

I am so gutted.... I have been wondering about SAG spam for awhile and would have been cool to see it played out. Why was it denied??

I mean, SAG mek + 2KMK's is a T7 unit that has 11 wounds and dishes out some serious pain. For even cheaper you can use lobba's, who match the SAG range. Every turn laying down 8 Pie plates is such a orky thing

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An idea of mine;
2x Gorka formation.... 6 gorkanauts in a 1500 list

Dread Mob was decided not to be up-to-date Forge book, so I can't have Mek Junkas.

HQ
Big Mek w/ SAG
-Mek Junka w/ SAG
Big Mek w/ SAG
-Mek Junka w/ SAG


Elite
Mek Junka w/SAG
Mek Junka w/SAG
Mek Junka w/SAG
Mek Junka w/SAG

With Multiple CADs (or Unbound) you could get more.

Sivious wrote:
Dread Mob was decided not to be up-to-date Forge book, so I can't have Mek Junkas.

HQ
Big Mek w/ SAG
-Mek Junka w/ SAG
Big Mek w/ SAG
-Mek Junka w/ SAG


Elite
Mek Junka w/SAG
Mek Junka w/SAG
Mek Junka w/SAG
Mek Junka w/SAG

With Multiple CADs (or Unbound) you could get more.

Personally, I would be out of the event if they are not going to allow the Dread mob FAQ. I love my deff dreads. Whats the plan with the SAQ spam you got going here?

 Glitcha wrote:

Personally, I would be out of the event if they are not going to allow the Dread mob FAQ. I love my deff dreads. Whats the plan with the SAQ spam you got going here?

As a local TO, and competitive player, I would encourage you to reconsider this approach.

From a TO's perspective, we are a relatively small community, and we need to try to support each other even if it sometimes means subjugating our own wishes to those of the group. Furthermore, if you are unhappy with a selected army comp not attending in protest isn't nearly as effective of an argument to alter the comp as attending, and politely requesting your preferred comp in the future. TOs want to run events with the biggest attendance possible, but someone that will refuse to attend because of a particular comp is someone that is unlikely to support events unless you allow them to write their own comp, and even then they may change their minds and become unhappy. However, someone that does show up, and is polite in a request to try out their preferred comp is very likely to see it in the pipe, because TO's love to experiment, and solicit opinions. If your preferred comp turns out to be unpopular, then it not become a regular thing, but it will get more of a look if you attend than if you don't.

From a competitive player's perspective, I love trying as many different comps as possible. I thrive when attending an event that makes the army I generally run not work effectively, because it forces me to rework my list, and to exercise my tactics in a different way. Basically it makes me a better player. Beyond that, the running of events has improved dramatically in the last 3 years to the point where Swiss Matching is used basically universally. The consequence of that is a reduction in the number of games that are blowouts. Each round is substantially more likely to match you with a opponent with a similarly powerful list and skill level. The great thing about this is your last game at any event is generally your most fun, and sticking it out helps you learn about yourself, and other local players, and makes it easier for you to curate a regular group of opponents that produce fun games.

Do I need a plan with 8 SAGs?

I think the Dread Mob ban was mostly because of Kustom Stompa being underpriced and some old rules. Not to completely derail from my original intent, what you think of Meks added to Boy squads as challenge eaters/ hidden Killsaws? Worth of 45pt? How about in Mek Guns, are they obligatory Ld buff?

Ditch the Killsaws if they are for challenges, they can be picked off and S6 Armourbane isn't that impressive.

Same for Mek Gunz. Other than that, points well spent.

My challenge meks often outshine my nobs had the meks put a wound or two on SM characters while my PK nob manages to whiff all his hits! but hey dice.

Naked meks for challenges, same for Mek gunz. Although generally I hope not to have to use the LD check for my gunz, as a 50/50 is still awful odds for having your whole unit run off board

I recently had the pleasure of playing one of my friends in a very interesting game of WH40k. We used his Helm's Deep Table that he made. It was really awesome. He used a legion of Imperial fist and guardsmen to defend the fort and I used what I would call a siege style ork list. We played 2000 points and here is my siege list

Zhadsnark
Big mek on bike with KFF
Pain boy on a bike

2x 19 'ard boyz with Nob BP Pk
6 warbikers with Nob BP PK

Dakka jet
Fighta bomba
10 stormboyz with Nob with Big Chopa and BP

2x Battlewagons with deff rollas, graby klaws, and wrecking balls.
1 Big trakk squad with supa-kannons

Battle wagons made a mess of the wall. Had the Big Mek on bike in the middle of them follow them there as my other bikes made their way up the ramp to the main gate. The battlewagons ramed the wall and smacked it with the wreckin balls. Then the boyz got out next turn and assault the artillery that was on the other side. My bikes smashed the main gate and made their way through the outter keep. Needless to say ork speed really won the day.

So between pages 15 and 20 I think there was a post saying you can use the Great WAAAAAGH Detachment for the dread mob from forgeworld. If this is the case can I still run Mork/Gorkanauts in the same detachment? I love our walkers and I would like to try deepstriking them for fun.

 cranect wrote:
So between pages 15 and 20 I think there was a post saying you can use the Great WAAAAAGH Detachment for the dread mob from forgeworld. If this is the case can I still run Mork/Gorkanauts in the same detachment? I love our walkers and I would like to try deepstriking them for fun.

Nope, Mork/Gorkanauts are not part of the Dread mob army list. Its sad that they are not. I would expect that to change when the new IA:8 2nd edition comes out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I know we talked about biker star being the best option for us competitive, but what about a small deffkopta star?

Warboss on bike with PK, BP, Cybork, and attack squig
Big Mek on Bike with KS, Cybork, Kustom force field and da lucky stick
Pain boy on Bike

attached to 5 deffkopas with 1 having a Buzzsaw.

This gives the star 10 wounds before characters. Scout and hit and run. Hit and run would be easier to get since the Warboss is Initiative 4. Now you can jink for the 4+ or turbo boost for a 3+. If you get shot with something that ignores cover you have 5++.

On the charge you have
4 posion attack
15 str 4 attacks
5 str 10 ap 2
4 str 9 ap 2 armorbane attacks.

Now you can run something really nasty and do two groups.
Bike star + deffkopa star

Interesting idea fora Deffstar.

This are two I've been tinkering with in the same list, using Mogrok's Bossboyz and a CAD for 1850

Mogrok w/ MA, KMK
Mad Dok
4 MegaNobz
Weirdboy (rolling on usually Santic for +2 Strenth or +1 Invuln)
Trukk

Big Mek w/ Bike, PK
Big Mek w/ Bike, PK
Warboss w/ Bike, PK, Boss Pole,Da Lucky Stikk
Painboy on Bike
15x Warbikers with Boss Nob, PK

Supported by two units of 12 Tankbustas in Trukks, Outflanking Gretchin and Traktor Kannons for AA. Power Klaws in each unit,leadership 9 for one, Fearless on the other.

If anything, it should be fun and those Traktors can be used for backfield objectives as your Ob SEc Gretchin can outflank where you need them.

Deff Kopta stars work, but aren't as ideal as Warbike stars. Warbike stars rely on Zhardsnark (skilled Rider) + turbo boosting for a 2+ cover save.

Zhardsnark gives them scout, and makes them OS troops.

Getting Hit and run from Deff Koptas is good, but scout is wasted. Also, you can't take a character Deff Kopta to eat challenges, and it is harder to control objectives.

If Deff Koptas had Exhaust Cloud I think it would be a more viable strategy, but the difference between a 2+ and a 3+ on turn 1 is significant, and tanking on a Warboss is an expensive gamble.