My first week is done for the escalation league. Currently 2-1. Overall, Zhadsnark is op at lower point levels. First match, Crimson fist vs my Cult of Speed. We played on a snow planet. So dangerous terrain failled on 1's and 2's. Get's hot weapons didn't get hot. Crimson fist imbolized 2 rhinos and got stuck on their side of the field. Boyz killed on squad and Zhadsnark and the biker boyz killed the landspeeder and rhino with captain and tactical squad. Second match Tau vs Cult of Speed. Should have been hard, but with the two fire warrior units not have a sgt in them. Zhadsnark tank shock them both off the table. So much for tau overwatch. Boyz killed a piranha on the table. Zhadsnark chased a commander and crisis suits around the table. Eventually catching them. Third match Space Marines Mantis warriors vs Cult of speed. I killed almost everything, but a tactical squad with capatin with a relic blade. He managed to kill Zhadsnark and nob that was left from the biker boyz. He ended up beating me on maelstrom cards.
I think this is a great start for the league I'm in. No one is undefeated.
Glitcha wrote: My first week is done for the escalation league. Currently 2-1. Overall, Zhadsnark is op at lower point levels. First match, Crimson fist vs my Cult of Speed. We played on a snow planet. So dangerous terrain failled on 1's and 2's. Get's hot weapons didn't get hot. Crimson fist imbolized 2 rhinos and got stuck on their side of the field. Boyz killed on squad and Zhadsnark and the biker boyz killed the landspeeder and rhino with captain and tactical squad. Second match Tau vs Cult of Speed. Should have been hard, but with the two fire warrior units not have a sgt in them. Zhadsnark tank shock them both off the table. So much for tau overwatch. Boyz killed a piranha on the table. Zhadsnark chased a commander and crisis suits around the table. Eventually catching them. Third match Space Marines Mantis warriors vs Cult of speed. I killed almost everything, but a tactical squad with capatin with a relic blade. He managed to kill Zhadsnark and nob that was left from the biker boyz. He ended up beating me on maelstrom cards.
I think this is a great start for the league I'm in. No one is undefeated.
FratHammer wrote: Also if you do the mff, and use the Waaaghh Ghaz detachment, you get 5 elite slots. Which could net you 3bustas in wagons with killkannons and 2manz missles or 2tankbustas/3manz missles. How about that for confusing target priority that's only like 1228~pts? Of the top of my head... Plenty of room for grots, a mff, some kmks, maybe a sag... Seems fun.
I recommend against using the Waaaghh Ghaz detachment for MANZ missiles. When their Trukk dies, and they have to take a pinning test, the +2 to Mob rule makes you 64% more likely to fail. (18% compared to 28%)
That is a pretty significant difference. A Pinned unit of MANZ is a failed MANZ Missile.
In that case I would suggest the BullyBoyz: WS5, Fearless, causes Fear. They still can take DT's and don't take any slots. I need 3 more models, then I can take it!
Glitcha wrote: My first week is done for the escalation league. Currently 2-1. Overall, Zhadsnark is op at lower point levels. First match, Crimson fist vs my Cult of Speed. We played on a snow planet. So dangerous terrain failled on 1's and 2's. Get's hot weapons didn't get hot. Crimson fist imbolized 2 rhinos and got stuck on their side of the field. Boyz killed on squad and Zhadsnark and the biker boyz killed the landspeeder and rhino with captain and tactical squad. Second match Tau vs Cult of Speed. Should have been hard, but with the two fire warrior units not have a sgt in them. Zhadsnark tank shock them both off the table. So much for tau overwatch. Boyz killed a piranha on the table. Zhadsnark chased a commander and crisis suits around the table. Eventually catching them. Third match Space Marines Mantis warriors vs Cult of speed. I killed almost everything, but a tactical squad with capatin with a relic blade. He managed to kill Zhadsnark and nob that was left from the biker boyz. He ended up beating me on maelstrom cards.
I think this is a great start for the league I'm in. No one is undefeated.
Curious how many eldar/necrons players you have.
We currently have one of each. Eldar player got tabled by Sisters of Battle and the necron player has not played yet. He can only game on Thursdays and Sundays. Yeah I watch the Eldar vs Sisters battle. Eldar player was on foot. I believe two units of guardians and 1 unit of reapers and a farseer. Sisters player was the returning champion. He chose the army thinking it would give him a handy cap. There was a lot of flamers and bad rolls and moves on the Eldar players side.
My buddy is pimping the Land Raider Spearhead inside his shiny new Space Marine formation. He asked me to bring my Blitz Brigade next week. That formation I run 30 Tankbustas on Wagonz, but what do I need to know about dealing with the Land Raider Spearhead formation.. I've heard they are squandroned? with some Razorbacks?
I hope to scout to one angle of his Land Raiders and alpha strike one off the table, he runs redeemers a lot, especially knowing that I'm a damn dirty Ork who is gonna throw 60+ bodies out of Wagonz on turn two to assault with. Equip me with wisdom, tell me of your knowledge and I would honor it.
Rismonite wrote: My buddy is pimping the Land Raider Spearhead inside his shiny new Space Marine formation. He asked me to bring my Blitz Brigade next week. That formation I run 30 Tankbustas on Wagonz, but what do I need to know about dealing with the Land Raider Spearhead formation.. I've heard they are squandroned? with some Razorbacks?
I hope to scout to one angle of his Land Raiders and alpha strike one off the table, he runs redeemers a lot, especially knowing that I'm a damn dirty Ork who is gonna throw 60+ bodies out of Wagonz on turn two to assault with. Equip me with wisdom, tell me of your knowledge and I would honor it.
If they are squadroned then you have the potential to do some serious damage to them; as HP's carry over. Charge one with as many Busta's as you can and melta the ass off it, roll each damage table roll individually as if you roll an explodes on your first then all of the following HP's and damage rolls are now on the second raider. This way you will also protect yourself from any explodes that come from the other land raiders; as they will be a good few inches away.
Automatically Appended Next Post: -------------------------------------------------------------------
So I have a game against a 'Chaos' List Friday;
By Chaos all I know is that it will be slaanesh based so stuff like; daemonettes, noise marines, spawns, potentially some greater deamons or princes.
I have a Cron/ Ork list should I be aiming to shoot him off the table? Lots of low T 5++? so plenty of volume fire?
I don't think they are a squad, but I know they have tank hunter and monster hunter against LoW's and immune to everything on the vehicle damage table but explode. If the blitz brigade can thunder blitz, I would be doing that. Roll a 6 and that Land Raider is gone.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
FratHammer wrote: Sisters have all the AP 2. That helps against Eldar. And all the flamers/heavy flamers will help against you, so watch out.
Yeah his squad had a flamer, 2 combi-flamers and a heavy flamer. Cannoness has an inferno pistol. My bike mob almost didn't make when he jumped them out of a rhino at me. Lost all the bike boyz except for the nob in the squad.
Ya sisters can be rough. I had a squad of the seraphim jump nest to a truck full of boys and melt all but the nob and painboy inside with their hand flamers... They each had two so ten d6 flamer hits...
I know some people don't think the sister's army is very strong, but I think if you get a player that really knows what they are doing its going to really hurt. So next week we get to bump up our list to 750. Here is what I'm thinking. Please keep in mind that the original 500 points must still be in the list.
Zhadsnark
11 'ard boyz + 'ard nob in a trukk with BP and PK
4 biker boyz + biker nob BPPK
Dakkajet with extra set of gunz
3 deffkoptas with TL rokkets
Gun trukk with Kannon and rokket launcha.
Surprisingly the Gun trukk did pretty good. If not killing troops or trying to take down a vehicle, it was grabbing objectives for me every turn in maelstrom games.
Ya I am going to make those models just because they seem like fun and because they are pretty cool and I want to use them. The advantage for the FW one is more dreads but the ere we go is huge for me... My dreads like to get 1s in their charge distances...
Frozocrone wrote: Ork Warband for continous Waaagh! and Dread Mob formation for Ere We Go...me likey.
I might just have to build a list for that.
Had that thought too, Min warband is actually pretty cheap if you keep out nobs etc. Throw in a Claw stompa for Min cost fearless bubble or hope to roll 1 on WL trait and you have a fearless mass of boyz and walkers who can run and charge every turn!
Sadly the min cost of the dread formation is what hikes up the price as that's looking at 1500 easy. Wish they'd done a smaller formation; 1 Morka/gorka, 2 Dreads and 3 units of any size kanz. I'd have been all over that.
Last night I tried Green Tide for the first time. I was defender in Planet Strike and had them in reserves to walk-on the first turn.
The only unit worth their time when they walked on was 5 Eldar Wraith Guard with Eldrad in front. I threw 24 Shootas and 10 Rokkits into that squad and with Eldrad's rerollable 2+ inv, no wounds. Did I mention these Wraith Guard are T6? I didnt realize that. Thought they used to be T4 at some point.
Anywho return fire killed about 28 Orks, mostly Shootas, with the D-strength Eldar flamed!! Then the Tide was shot at by Furiouso Dreds and some Super Heavy Eldar Titan with 4 shots of large blast Str D! Then they were assaulted by 10 Death Company and 2 Furiouso Dreds. I only lost 18 Boyz and 2 Nobs! Killed 7 Death Company due to terrible rolls and put on two HP on one Dred. I had 5 PK Nobz, MAWB, a BikerBoss with DLS (thank Gork I was WS 5!), and a PainBoy on Bike. Next round, my turn, I kill the remaining death company and wounded Dred. Unfortunately I'm spread out about 5' along my table edge with only 1 PK Nob with an unhurt Furiouso Dred.
Keep moving down 6" per turn to finally get more PK's, kill the Dred, get flamed by Eldrad's flamed squad of Death again!!
Tide is hurting but still Fearless due to 20 point upgrade!! Shoot and assault Eldrad's squad, kill all Wraith Guard, he uses Gate of Infinity to get away!! I kill 3 more drop pods in assault and get 15 wounds against me due to explosions. Normal Ork Life.
Finally his Eldar Reverant Titan Super Heavy Walker of Doom, who if you shoot him or hit in assault, you have to reroll all hits on a 4+, assaults me, I get him down to one HP left, he stomps my MAWB and BikerBoss with a 6! Squad is not Fearless, runs, gets caught, destroyed.
It was awesome. 6 hour game. Wife did not appreciate that.
PipeAlley wrote: Last night I tried Green Tide for the first time. I was defender in Planet Strike and had them in reserves to walk-on the first turn.
The only unit worth their time when they walked on was 5 Eldar Wraith Guard with Eldrad in front. I threw 24 Shootas and 10 Rokkits into that squad and with Eldrad's rerollable 2+ inv, no wounds. Did I mention these Wraith Guard are T6? I didnt realize that. Thought they used to be T4 at some point.
Anywho return fire killed about 28 Orks, mostly Shootas, with the D-strength Eldar flamed!! Then the Tide was shot at by Furiouso Dreds and some Super Heavy Eldar Titan with 4 shots of large blast Str D! Then they were assaulted by 10 Death Company and 2 Furiouso Dreds. I only lost 18 Boyz and 2 Nobs! Killed 7 Death Company due to terrible rolls and put on two HP on one Dred. I had 5 PK Nobz, MAWB, a BikerBoss with DLS (thank Gork I was WS 5!), and a PainBoy on Bike. Next round, my turn, I kill the remaining death company and wounded Dred. Unfortunately I'm spread out about 5' along my table edge with only 1 PK Nob with an unhurt Furiouso Dred.
Keep moving down 6" per turn to finally get more PK's, kill the Dred, get flamed by Eldrad's flamed squad of Death again!!
Tide is hurting but still Fearless due to 20 point upgrade!! Shoot and assault Eldrad's squad, kill all Wraith Guard, he uses Gate of Infinity to get away!! I kill 3 more drop pods in assault and get 15 wounds against me due to explosions. Normal Ork Life.
Finally his Eldar Reverant Titan Super Heavy Walker of Doom, who if you shoot him or hit in assault, you have to reroll all hits on a 4+, assaults me, I get him down to one HP left, he stomps my MAWB and BikerBoss with a 6! Squad is not Fearless, runs, gets caught, destroyed.
It was awesome. 6 hour game. Wife did not appreciate that.
Sounds like an tough and dirty fight. Just the way Orks like it!
I was a at tournament last weekend - Giant Fanatic 17. It was a bit rough on orks, but here goes... I have wanted to play with killer kanz and gorkamorkanaut for quite a while so I thought this might as well be the time.
HQ Warboss, mega armour, power klaw, TL shoota, da lucky stikk, cybork body boss pole. 135
TROOPS 10 boyz, sluggas, nob, big choppa, boss pole (80). Trukk, big shoota (30). 110
10 boyz, sluggas, nob, big choppa, boss pole (80). Trukk, big shoota (30). 110
10 boyz, sluggas, nob, big choppa, boss pole (80). Trukk, big shoota (30). 110
ELITE 3 MANZ, boss with kill saws, boss pole (135). Battlewagon, ram, big shoota (120). 255
8 Tank bustas, 1 bomb squig, nob, boss pole (124). Trukk, big shoota (30). 154
7 Tank bustas, nob, boss pole (106). Trukk, big shoota (30). 136
FAST ATTACK 2 Deffkoptas, 2 TL rokkits. 60
2 Deffkoptas, 2 TL rokkits. 60
5 Warbikers, nob, boss pole. 105
HEAVY SUPPORT Gorkanaut, deffstorm mega-shoota, 2 TL big shootas, 2 rokkit launchas, skorcha, klaw of Gork. 245
5 Killer kanz, 2 big shootas, 1 rokkit launcha, 1 grot launcha, 1 skorcha, kan klaws. 260
5 Flash gitz, snazzgunz. 110
Total 1850
The only real change I would have wanted was lobbas in place of flash gits, but didn't have the models available.
How did the gorkanaut fare? Game 1 against orks saw him walk right side around a tall ruin, only to see a whole bunch of tank bustas (2x10) ride in and cause 4 hull points and a stunned result. He shot a few lootas down and survived before the game ended early. Game won.
Game 2 against White Scars/Ravenwing in which he waddled forward hoping to threathen the dodgy bikers. He did nothing, but got shot down by meltaguns. Game lost
Game 3 against 18 necron wraiths and a knight paladin. He shot at wraiths for 1 turn, causing a wound or 2 and then holding up wraiths for a several turns. They kept saving on 3++ tho. Game won.
Game 4 against Daemonkin with D-thirster and Kytan daemon engine. This was a crazy scenario with warlords fighting in the middle on turn 0. Barely charged fleshhounds. Yay. Got stomped by super heavy walker on a 6. Boo. Game lost.
Game 5 against Cult Mechanicus, Skitarii, Knight and Space Marines with pod. Destroyed vehicles gave bonus points. Gorkanaut waddled up middle, took off wounds from kataphron destroyers with deffstorm mega-shoota. Survived. Game won.
How did the killer kans fare? Game 1 vs orks took a barrage form KMK mek gunz and lost 1 model, they scared some boyz off from objectives, took objective, charged boyz that broke through, charged trukk and whiffed.
Game 2 vs White Scars/Ravenwing where they managed to charge bikerstar, didnt do much harm against chaptermaster with 3++/5+ Fnp, while hitting on 5+. Bikes made use of hit and run and plasma gunned kans down.
Game 3 vs 18 necron wraiths, they shot some wounds on wraiths then managed to get the charge. Wraiths wiffed attacks and armour pen rolls, but 3++ saves were over the top. Great to see killer kans not taking morale tests in melee.
Game 4 vs daemonkin, was ready to charge flesh hounds in case other charges failed. Got charged by nasty chaos lord with 4++/5+FnP, held for a few rounds of combat.
Game 5 vs Cult Mechanicus/Skitarii/Knight, lost some hull points to kataphron destroyers - grav doesnt really work as intended against killer kans. They shot at culexus assassin, helped bringing him down. Tried to destroy a well placed drop pod, took a few combat rounds. Seriously smacked kataphron destroyers, ignored wall of death.
Conclusion Ork walkers are slow a shoot a little. Whacks stuff in melee, and won't run. They are useful when the opponent wants to fight in close combat. Killer kans in particular took a lot of punishment and were annoying to get rid of in a way orks not normally are. Gorkanaut is best used if you can lure something into combat where it's AV13 and 5 HP will come into it's own right.
(Gorkanaut should have been a superheavy walker really, rules just looks goofy next to other super heavies. Point cost is also some 100 points too high for what it does).
DLS Megaboss + Painboss + rokkit mek + 14 tankbustas + PK nob (will probably change painboss to somethng else later - a wierdboy or sag mek) in a bunker with escape hatch and void shields
mek + 10 'ard boyz + 'Ard nob in a ram truck
min grots
Snikrot + 6 kommandoes (2 burnas) + PKBP nob
2*1koptas
Blitza bomber
3 KMK 5 Lobbas
8 lootas
vs Ultramarines
Calgar in artificer armor
2*5 tacticals
3 HB+Hurricane bolter Devastator centurions
Lazcannon devs Formation of 3 Vindicators (the one wits s10 ap1 ignore cover apoc blast)
Formation of command landraider + command rhino (that have a 7" blast and some orders)
As you see, my list's aimed to have as fewer ork models as possible cause i'm tired of long games for now. And the opponent's list is full of blasts.
I think i had the only chance to win by going 1-st and somehow disallowing an apoc blast. I got lucky, managed to shake one vindi but than got megaboss and half the squad of tankbustas killed by the remaining two. Luckilly, he didn't have enough firepower to focus down truckboyz - wrecked a truck with centurions, though.
2-d turn kommando squad came out and burned half the devastator squad, truckboyz destroyed a squadron of demolishers and the game was basicaly decided by than. Later on, a pk kommando nob managed to explode a command landraider, lootas wrecked a command rhino and it all ended up as a spacemarine wipeout eventually.
But i think i was just quite lucky with the 1-st turn and with him ignoring truckboyz for too long.
I don't get the point. Is it how you see kommandos with Snikrot are good at getting backfield support units? How would it have gone if nob had wielded a kombi-skorcha?
Waaargh wrote: I don't get the point. Is it how you see kommandos with Snikrot are good at getting backfield support units? How would it have gone if nob had wielded a kombi-skorcha?
Kommando nob actually can't get combi-weapons cause he has no access to Ranged Weapon list for some reason. If he could, the squad would have more stuff going on for them but as is i don't think that they're too effective. Cause for 200 pt you get a very fragile unit with ld problems and not so amazing damage output. Yep, in that game they did amazing simply cause they got lucky and exploded a command landraider. The initial come-out was that they killed 3 marines with burnas. Not too great for how expensive kommandoes are but those marines were devastators with lazcannons and a sarge. So, not too bad either, i guess. Besides, they provided a sorta backfield threat.
All in all, i feel they can be decent in casual games. Don't expect them to work in competitive enviroment.
I usually run kommandoes as a min unit with 2 specials, infiltrate them on a point and feel good bout it. Not worse than koptas for this specific task. Just wanted to test out snikrot as i got a model recently. Besides, i'm pretty close to finally using homebrew ork dex where snikrot and burnas are actually pretty fine.
So it was maelstrom, tactical escalation. I got first turn and drew the make them fail a morale test card. So lobbas and KMK's take aim at the most viable target, some cover camping cultists. Using the Necrons I pushed up to the centre of the board with all my ridiculous robot saves (4+/4+FNP with re-roll 1's). Wraiths moved up and generally made the middle of the board a no mans land where no CSM wanted to get caught.
Ork bikes flanked and shot stuff to pieces. Lootas downed the forgefiend turn 1 too. Dice were really on my side it seems. But overall, lobbas are such a great addition to any list, KMK's blew 3 nurgle bikers into oblivion, bikestar pumps out some serious firepower and Necrons, well they have some serious staying power. I barely got to use them, wraiths saw combat once, before the game was basically over start of my turn 3. I had already removed all nurgle bikers, cultists, raptors and the forgefiend.
I played what I would call my most exciting and roller coaster ride of a game this past weekend. Let me set the scene for you guys. Week 2 of the escalation league. Round 2 on Saturday. Round 1 was a blow out with me tabling my opponent. Round 2 was Tau, basically, Orks hated enemy. This was goin g to be rough game. Bottom of turn 5. Tau force consist of crisis suit commander and body guard unit, 6 fire warriors, and Riptide with 1 wound left. (He kept nova charging himself and wounding himself. I actually did none of the damage to it at this point.) We played kill points and I was behind. In order to win the game, I needed the game to have turn 6. Tau player rolls, we have turn 6. My remaining unit consiste of 5 boyz and nob with power klaw. Right now, I'm pretty sure I'm going to lose. So going to go down in ork fashion. I decide an all out assault is my only option. Boyz come out from behind a building in charge range of the command and co. I lose two boyz in the over watch from command and co and a near by fire warrior squad. We make into combat. Nob challenges and the commander declines. The commander with the most attack is moved to the back of unit and does not fight. Boyz and the nob kill the 3 body guards. Tau turn 6. Fire warriors assault in to combat. The Riptide fails its charge. Commander and fire warriors kill a boy. 2 boyz left and nob kill the commander and sweep the fire warriors off the table. I roll and consolidate to the Riptide.
Now we have a new problem. Riptide with 1 wound left vs 2 ard boyz and nob with power klaw. I'm now winning by 1 point. If the game ends, I win. If the game goes on, I have to kill the riptide before it can kill me. I roll this time, the game goes on. Boyz and nob move closer to the Riptide and fire their slugas at him. No wound. Then I assault the Riptide. He misses every one of his overwatch shots. The boyz make it with the nob. Riptide strikes first killing both the boyz. The Nob power klaws the riptide with all 4 of his attacks and wounds with 3 of them. Riptide just has his FNP. He fails all of them. Tau forces have been complete destroyed now. The only thing I have left is a nob with BP and PK with 1 wound remaining. Everyone there was shocked. The last two turns even stopped a magic event because everyone was cheering.
I've not had a game that exciting in so long, but man was it awesome. I wish we would have recorded it, because it was crazy. Personally, I did not think the boyz would make it through the assault with commander and the bodyguard unit. Let alone, manage to finish off the riptide. Tau player would have had me if he backed the riptide away in turn 6 instead of trying to kill me, but I understand why he did it. He was going for the win just like I was. Basically we both went all in. Last man standing takes all da teef.
That Nob had some serious lootin' rights! But that sounds totally awesome Glitcha, they are my favourite games where things get a little crazy and the game starts to swing from win to lose and back again
Yeah after that game I was what when did boy squads become so awesome! Going have to try to do more with them. His list was crazy good and countered mine really hard. He whipped out Zhadsnark and his biker boyz in one turn. I was pretty sure I was going to lose until the boyz started fighting things and he just started picking up models. Honestly, my trukk boy squads are some serious punch when they get into a fight. Currently in the league I am 4-1. I have one more game this week. Most likely space wolves or Raven guard.
Matthew wrote: Guys, the best way to counter Deathwing Knights with TH/SS?
Shot them. They are basic terminators. If they are all TH/SS then assaulting them could be a good option since you would strike first. Last I checked the Deathwing Knights could not take TH. They have power mauls and once per game they can use some ability to make themselves str 10. I believe this was before the new codex. If the new one is now they are just TH/SS.
They don't get thunderhammers, just an ap3 maul in essence, and can do individual smite attacks now which basically limits them to one attack that phase but at str 10, possibly ap1? at least ap2
jackl1324 wrote: They don't get thunderhammers, just an ap3 maul in essence, and can do individual smite attacks now which basically limits them to one attack that phase but at str 10, possibly ap1? at least ap2
In that case, Fearless Sluggas or Grots will tie them up.
In all seriousness, it's no worse for us than facing a couple broadsides teams and a riptide or two. Except, you can't kill it. And it's cheaper. Yep, it's gona probably screw greentides up but what doesn't nowadays. Demolisher formations, scat bikes, apoc eldar psy blasts, wivern squadrons.
You generally alpha-strike it or hope that your opponent doesn't bring it in the first place cause in case of mass wiverns or demolisher squadrons, they're not too great against the meta. In this case of a tau superwalker...you clearly can't alpha-strike this armless thing. Your best bet would be to tarpit it with fast stuff hoping for bad stomp rolls and than catching it up and tarpit even more with your green tide having gotten the rest of tau army envolved in a glorious multi-assault.
It's T6 8W 3+ with fnp, gets access to support systems. Has a lot of shooting...and can anchor itself in place to shoot twice the following turn. That said on average on average 42 powerklaw attacks milk it in one turn, basic irks can wound it on 6s, and all basic ork shooting can hurt it unlike WKs and IKs
How do you beat Space Marine Battle Company with Orks?
I normally run Mech Orks with Battle Wagons and Gun Wagons with a couple squads of boyz, and the rest Tankbustas + max solo deff Koptas for msu scoring.
Other ideas I can run are up to 10 KMKs, Green Tide, a MANZ missile, or a Kustom Battle Fortress.
This is the list I was considering.
Spoiler:
CAD #1
Warboss (EA, DFK, PK) <- Warlord
Painboy
5 Tankbustas (Bomb Squig) in a Trukk (Ram)
5 Tankbustas (Bomb Squig) in a Trukk (Ram)
Battlewagon (Ram, Rokkit)
5 Lootas
5 Lobbas (5 Ammo Runts)
Void Shield Generator (3 Void Shields, Barricade)
Cad #2
Warboss (EA, DLS, PK)
Painboy
5 Tankbustas (2 Bomb Squigs) in a Trukk (Ram)
5 Tankbustas (Bomb Squig) in a Trukk (Ram)
17 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP)
Gretchin
Deff Kopta (Rokkit)
Deff Kopta (Rokkit)
Battlewagon (Ram, Rokkit)
5 Lootas
The VSG hopefully keeps my Battle Wagons alive for 1 turn, and if need be I will deploy outside the wagons to prevent drop podding inside the VSG range.
A warboss + painboy inside each wagon with boyz. I'm hoping for +1 to seize or Stealth in Ruins, but Master of Ambush lets me outflank Tankbusta Trukks, which can be good.
I'm generally going to be hemorrhaging units, but feel like I have enough that I can tolerate that, and I feel like I will have better overall board control which should put me in position to win. What do you guys think?
Tide is hurting but still Fearless due to 20 point upgrade!! Shoot and assault Eldrad's squad, kill all Wraith Guard, he uses Gate of Infinity to get away!! I kill 3 more drop pods in assault and get 15 wounds against me due to explosions. Normal Ork Life.
What 20point upgrade makes them Fearless? Am i missing something?
Yeah, most Greentide players take the formation (couple of Nobz with PK so you can kill tougher stuff), GreenTide Warboss with Big Bosspole for Fearless + CAD w/ Painboy/Mad Dok (if you don't take Big Boss Pole) and Warboss w/ Da Lucky Stikk
tag8833 wrote: How do you beat Space Marine Battle Company with Orks?
Spoiler:
I normally run Mech Orks with Battle Wagons and Gun Wagons with a couple squads of boyz, and the rest Tankbustas + max solo deff Koptas for msu scoring.
Other ideas I can run are up to 10 KMKs, Green Tide, a MANZ missile, or a Kustom Battle Fortress.
This is the list I was considering.
CAD #1
Warboss (EA, DFK, PK) <- Warlord
Painboy
5 Tankbustas (Bomb Squig) in a Trukk (Ram)
5 Tankbustas (Bomb Squig) in a Trukk (Ram)
Battlewagon (Ram, Rokkit)
5 Lootas
5 Lobbas (5 Ammo Runts)
Void Shield Generator (3 Void Shields, Barricade)
Cad #2
Warboss (EA, DLS, PK)
Painboy
5 Tankbustas (2 Bomb Squigs) in a Trukk (Ram)
5 Tankbustas (Bomb Squig) in a Trukk (Ram)
17 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP)
Gretchin
Deff Kopta (Rokkit)
Deff Kopta (Rokkit)
Battlewagon (Ram, Rokkit)
5 Lootas
The VSG hopefully keeps my Battle Wagons alive for 1 turn, and if need be I will deploy outside the wagons to prevent drop podding inside the VSG range.
A warboss + painboy inside each wagon with boyz. I'm hoping for +1 to seize or Stealth in Ruins, but Master of Ambush lets me outflank Tankbusta Trukks, which can be good.
I'm generally going to be hemorrhaging units, but feel like I have enough that I can tolerate that, and I feel like I will have better overall board control which should put me in position to win. What do you guys think?
I smashed battle company. 5 Drop Pods + 8 Razorbacks (2 Las Cannon, 6 Assault Cannon). I didn't quite table him. He still had 2 Razor Backs (One healthy, one with no gun), 1 Drop Pod, 4 Tac Marines, and 1 Assault marine left on turn 5, but it was an easier game than I expected. He gunlined up, and I was able to take and hold board control. Hit and Run allowed him to get to the Lobbas in my backfield, but not until after they killed 2 Squads of sternguard, and 4 Tac Marines. Using various doctrines he was able to eliminate one of my squads of boyz + my warboss and painboy, but the other squad lasted the whole game and swept up in his backfield. Solo Deff Koptas are awesome. He was loaded with grav and Melta. The VSG ate the melta, and the Grav doesn't help when you have 20 Ork Boyz in your face.
Billagio wrote: What do you load your deff koptas with? rokkits? saws?
Rokkits. Only Rokkits. Keep them cheap. Use them to claim objectives, tarpit, eat overwatch and take potshots at things.
Their damage potential isn't what makes them great. It is their mobility, and survivability. But the Rokkit makes then a serious enough threat that sometimes you can convince someone to Jink by firing a single Rokkit at them, and you can use it to snipe out special weapons sometimes.
I have a million stories of solo deff koptas becoming heroes. The time they moved 36" to contest an objective. The time 2 of them tarpit a burstide for 3 turns. The time one killed a unit of longfangs by winning combat and making them run off the board. The time I joined a painboy to one deff kopta and swept a unit of Conscripts. So many stories of them winning me games. They don't do much killing stuff by they score alot, and they win games.
Billagio wrote: What do you load your deff koptas with? rokkits? saws?
Rokkits. Only Rokkits. Keep them cheap. Use them to claim objectives, tarpit, eat overwatch and take potshots at things.
Their damage potential isn't what makes them great. It is their mobility, and survivability. But the Rokkit makes then a serious enough threat that sometimes you can convince someone to Jink by firing a single Rokkit at them, and you can use it to snipe out special weapons sometimes.
I have a million stories of solo deff koptas becoming heroes. The time they moved 36" to contest an objective. The time 2 of them tarpit a burstide for 3 turns. The time one killed a unit of longfangs by winning combat and making them run off the board. The time I joined a painboy to one deff kopta and swept a unit of Conscripts. So many stories of them winning me games. They don't do much killing stuff by they score alot, and they win games.
Also, rokkit koptas are super-cheap distraction carnifexes. Put it near any unit that might otherwise shoot the boyz. Scout + turbo-boost gives you effective 48" on turn 1.
Rokkit's on Koptas always, unless you just want it for Overwatch purposes in which case Big Shoota so it won't get shot at (but really Rokkits are free, why would you not!)
Seen the new Tidewall...I'm going to have to get my Lobbas up and running
Maybe a few Burnabommas too, depending on what my opponent puts on the wall.
Frozocrone wrote: Same IA book as Kustom Stompa, don't believe they were updated though. IA11 with Eldar is the hype at the minute.
I think Forge World said they didn't have any plans on revisiting IA8.
The last time I talked to someone at FW, I asked and they said it was on the schedule to be updated. Could not confirm if it would be a book or FAQ. Fingers crossed its a book, because the IA:8 is not on their website right now.
Speaking of IA8, what do people think of the Kistom Meka/Mega Dread combo? I have a scratchbuilt Mega I've never used before and am thinking about making a Kustom Meka. Has anyone used them before? I like the idea of being able to have a big KFF bubble feom the Kustom Meka, on the scale of a Morkanaut but without paying that much in points/cash.
Similarly, I'm playing with the idea of using a Big Mek on a bike w/KFF in blobs of boyz for the bigger bubble. It's a bit more points efficient than the Kustom Meka but you don't get as big a bubble or the cc oomph. Plus you are required to take a Mega to unlock it. But I think in certain boyz-heavy footslog cc lists it'd be worth it? Plus look epic and intimidating on the table.
I love Tankbustas for that reason. Throw enough Meltabombs at something and it will go down, especially with Tankhuntas.
MANz can afford it, I have it on the Boss Nob just so I can LoS if need be. I ditch it for Bullyboyz though, enough attacks usually take down vehicles.
EDIT: Had a 1500 point game against Ravenguard today using the following list
Spoiler:
Ork Horde Zhadsnark Big Mek w/ DLS, MA, BP Painboy w/ Warbike
Great Waaaagh! Warboss w/ PK, Big BossPole, Warbike
10x Gretchin 10x Gretchin
12x Tankbustas w/ Trukk
Went first for the game.
First time using BikeStar and it did a serious shift in the game. Tanked everything and still came out on top, even after being charged by a unit of Infiltrators turn one (GW staff ruled even though I explained why I could charge in the previous turn as I had not scouted/infiltrated with a 5 man bike unit, but my opponent had). Too much overwatch to handle and the Warboss/Zhadsnark wrecked face, even when Shrike started causing wounds with Zealot/Shred AP3. Painboy was super important and the Big Bosspole was clutch. By far the best relic we have.
1 unit of bikes died first turn to the infiltrating charges. Other unit managed to wreck two land speeders.
Big Mek died to a snake-eyes S8 shot but moving up the Lootas into range of the whole board was good. Lootas performed decently, 4 on the D3 overall. Killed a few scouts but not much to shoot at (everything was in ruins with Shrouded so eh).
Tankbustas and Trukk were the bomb. First turn the Trukk moved up so the Tankbustas needed to snapshoot. 5 hits. Took out a landspeeder with MM. Next turn they moved up and snap shotted a IronClad. 5 hits. Took it out.Trukk wasn't shot at all, due to the BikeStar turn one in my opponents face.
Had to call time at the bottom of turn two and had lost in the overall battle that was occuring in the day but by turn two my opponent had a Stormtalon, Stormraven and one Scout. Still had all twelve Tankbustas, 12 Bikes, 12 Lootas and my Gretchin (they were in reserves for banter). Probably a turn three tabling, if not that I still had a large ground force.
Jancoran wrote: So Killsaws. Those are awesome. And you can actually pull off getting quite a few in a list.
Anyone talked abut this?
I have six old metal MANZ and 6 new plastic MANZ, all the new ones have killsaws.
Too many times in previous editions I've shot what I wanted to assault and killed it all. I've run 3, 6, and 9 MANZ in 7th (3 of them being the old ones) and never regretted taking as many Killsaws as possible. Armorbane and an extra attack are always welcome. Most of the time, with the larger mob, I'm multi-assaulting and losing the bonus so still having 4 attacks per makes a huge difference. I need to get 3 more new ones so I'll have 15 for the Bully Boyz formation. Fear, Fearless (their biggest issue), and WS5 is awesome. Plus free BW slots or Trukks if that's your thing.
I usually just run the standard MANz bomb in a looted wagon (I run two cads for HQs and generally end up with plenty of HS slots) and I only run one Killsaw. The other two I run as scorchas.
I find one of the big unrecognized buffs of 7th has been our superior power in engaging with 'ere we go, allowing us to bring some of our gnarlier non-assault weapons to bear before we charge. Too many ork players I see still forgoing shooting for trying to be sure to make a 6" charge. In general I've been running more shooting and psychic power and loading less into assault and I've been happier for it.
First time using BikeStar and it did a serious shift in the game. Tanked everything and still came out on top, even after being charged by a unit of Infiltrators turn one (GW staff ruled even though I explained why I could charge in the previous turn as I had not scouted/infiltrated with a 5 man bike unit, but my opponent had). Too much overwatch to handle and the Warboss/Zhadsnark wrecked face, even when Shrike started causing wounds with Zealot/Shred AP3. Painboy was super important and the Big Bosspole was clutch. By far the best relic we have.
1 unit of bikes died first turn to the infiltrating charges. Other unit managed to wreck two land speeders.
Wait, you got charged on turn 1 by a unit that Infiltrated? (or Scouted?) The main rulebook is pretty clear on the point that a unit that makes a Scout redeployment cannot charge in the first game turn. I think the same applies for Infiltrate. Is there some other codex/formation/unit-specific rule that allowed him to charge, or did the GW employee just decide he could? Regardless, it sounds like you did well and had fun, so congrats.
His argument was that I had charged with my unit first turn. Problem was that this was a small bike unit that had not Infiltrated or Scouted, but due to my opponent Infiltrating was close enough to get a T1 charge, which wasn't my fault.
Got the rules out and proved my point and was ruled against me (probably because I don't attend regulary due to uni work).
Still, I was happy with how the list performed. Making some changes to it though and going to try and get a list ready that doesn't use FW (the campaign at the minute makes you unbound if you use FW, which defeats the point of Zhadsnark really).
Tankbustas really are amazeballs. They've killed an Iron Clad and Landspeeder Storm through shooting alone, no Bomb Squigs whatsoever (rolled hot there) and did 6 HP to AV15 building with Bombs (forget the name, but basically same employee as above made me roll to hit, which is the complete opposite of the rules. Would have destroyed it through glances alone had I autohit). And this is only with the one unit of 12 w/ Trukk that I have run in the two games that I've started to use them!!
Side note - there is a Raven Guard formation that allows assault from DS (not Skyhammer, it's the new one, Solaq Strike Force I think?). Don't think there is any for Infiltrate though.
It was great though I have so much fun with Orks these days, I think I will take them home with me when I go back for a week (then again luggage, aha)
Hey all. So, the received wisdom, at least as far as I've seen on the internet, seems to be that Lootas are a much better shout than Flash Gitz in almost all circumstances. I got a bit bored and did some maths – seems 5 gitz (110 points) are a lot more effective at shooting up any kind of infantry (up to and including Marines) than 8 Lootas (112 points) are. Really it seems a toss-up between effectiveness against infantry, better assault, a couple more wounds and increased mobility (Gitz) and range, usefulness against medium vehicles and ability to get a cheaper min-size unit (Lootas). I dunno if this comes as news to anyone, but I was just a little surprised to see it wasn't such a cut and dried obvious win for the Lootas.
I've not been using Lootas much at all since the new codex, Flash Gitz are better at anti-infantry and Tankbustas are better at shooting vehicles. Lootas can do a bit of both which has merit in certain lists but I struggle to find a place for them in my mobile armies and prefer to hold backfield objectives with the more resiliant Mek Gunz. Not having access to a Nob and bosspole is another huge downside and too many times have I seen a Heldrake vector strike one unit and flamer the other and make both run off the board
I still use my lootas quit a bit. I have flashgitz and I hardly use them. Mainly They come out during apoc and just run around on the table in a kustom battle fortress known as da ship!
Lootas still do AA quite well with the volume of shots they can fire upwards.
I tend to use:
Tankbustas/PK for medium/heavy vehicles
Lootas for flyers and light vehicles
I'm slowly shifting them out as they are quite static (or at least, large units of Lootas, my most current 1500 has 2x5 units. No Nob upgrade hurts them, so I have to babysit with a Big Mek for large units (and that's points not spent on faster units!)
Nazrak wrote: Hey all. So, the received wisdom, at least as far as I've seen on the internet, seems to be that Lootas are a much better shout than Flash Gitz in almost all circumstances. I got a bit bored and did some maths – seems 5 gitz (110 points) are a lot more effective at shooting up any kind of infantry (up to and including Marines) than 8 Lootas (112 points) are. Really it seems a toss-up between effectiveness against infantry, better assault, a couple more wounds and increased mobility (Gitz) and range, usefulness against medium vehicles and ability to get a cheaper min-size unit (Lootas). I dunno if this comes as news to anyone, but I was just a little surprised to see it wasn't such a cut and dried obvious win for the Lootas.
Your right, on paper they aren't much different with what they can accomplish. But in game I find huge differences. Plus a few issues with your thought trains;
A 110 unit walking, aren't going to be in range T1 nor in their 'optimum' position T2. Which means they have a 'minimum' transport cost of 30 points or more. Meaning that an effective comparison would more likely be 150 points of lootas VS 110 Gitz.
Once inside a transport they then become more fragile, where an explodes result will likely cause a few wounds/dead gitz, compared with the fact that the lootas likely would have a 5+ cover most of the game.
Gitz, while equally capable of shooting down infantry are at a much higher threat of assault or being shot off the table. There 24" range opens them up to the enemy and not just his ranged support or him sending a specified unit to deal with your backline
You are certainly right about a few things, but the problem with mathhammer is it doesn't include board setup and actual gameplay. In game my thoughts have been;
lootas have always made their points back - heck in my last 2 games in which the enemy could nominate 1 unit of mine and give them 'gets hot' (surprised he gave it to my lootas?? no I wasn't either) the lootas have not only killed more of themselves than the enemy did, they still managed to deal tremendous amounts of pain, turn 1 killing a forgefiend, opening up 2-3 harle vehicles... etc.
Gitz can mow down infantry and are still useful in the assault- being Nobz and all
loota range is just fantastic for helping dictate setup - aka, getting a nice killing field can make your opponent deploy quite predictably (while often making it hard for your lootas to shoot anything, they open themselves up to earlier charges or your seeming 'less' killy units.
Lootas once dying will run and never return
Gitz will stick about longer, but more than likely gimp themselves - aka they take a mob rule check, kill another git and all of a sudden your 5 man unit is a 2 man unit. which is an extra 1/3rd off your offensive ability.
overall, ive had great experiences with both, with that many dice both of them have the potential for absolutely rolls. Lootas I like because 'deploy and fire', gitz I like to roll around in squadroned vehicles (for added protection) and just pumping out fire, with the gitz acting as support.
Personally I don't think gitz have had enough experimentation, I want to use them more as assault back-up to shoota units. But overall both have merits, but IMO lootas are the 'easier to use' of the two. Deploy. Aim. FIRE!
Not to mention that Warbikers can do S5 better due to speed/TL/Jink.
Also Mek Gunz (which make Flash Gitz an even harder choice to choose, since in the same slot you can take Lobbas for the S5 Barrage or KMK for the AP2).
Also to Solar Shock and koooeai, there was a sense of 'still pulled it off' going on in my head as I won Comments were thrown that it would have been a different game had they gone AM.
Currently building up my Trukks for the Speed Freaks though, so unsure Still fun.
I think all Orks need is the ability to out-number Space Marine and Eldar units by 3:1. So make mobs able to buy multiple units of 10, rather than big mobs of 30. MSU is the way to go to make hordes competitive in 40k.
I run Gitz in nearly every Blitz Brigade style list I run. The ability to turn 1 camp a ruins (mork bless 12" scout) in a battlewagon and shoot at BS3 at 3+ armor (which they have a 50% of ignoring their armor) is great. Gitz are definitely not optimum units but they kind of fill a jack of all trades role of being a shooty mid range unit that isn't half bad in close combat against non melee focused units (shoota boyz on steroids). While the dream of melting 2+ armor is nice, they tend to be more reliable at killing 3+ armor which means they make MEQs cry and can make a lot of bikers jink or risk having their unit mulched by a good AP roll. Gitz also have great synergy with a Killkannon as they both have similar range, the capacity drop from the Killkannon is a non issue, and they work well as providing much needed armor piercing dakka. Definitely not a tournament caliber unit but they are fun and in the right list can be very effective. Also players tend to not get salty (or don't have much of a leg to stand on when complaining) from getting smashed by Da Boyz n Green when the list includes Flash Gitz
Well, good to know I'm not automatically an idiot for wanting to use Gitz. Can't see myself entering any tournaments any time soon so I reckon I'll just crack on and see what happens.
The main problem with Gitz is that it is hard to get them into optimal firing position. Lootas are set up and shoot, while Gitz take a lot more work to get into firing position. One good tactic that seems viable with Flash Gitz is to give some of them ammo runts for the times when they roll really good AP. Makes it so the good shots aren't wasted.
What are your thoughts on allying Orks with Skitarii or Ad Mech? I love my Orks, but I do like the look of the Skitarii minis and I've been tempted to pick them up. They are IoM and could only ally as Come the Apocalypse, however I could see parking a unit of Skitarii Rangers or maybe Vangard on an objective and picking off units that got too close. One of the doctrines gives BS+3, right? Orks can't even hope to achieve that kind of accuracy.
Telling an Ork that something is Heresy is like telling a bank robber that he shouldn't jaywalk.
But yes, point taken. Save your rotten fruit and dirty looks, I'll get off the stage. I was just curious. Back to da workshop...
I run daemons with my orks and love it. I've done a lot of converting on the daemons so that they're all ork models but still use rules for daemons. Just a thought. I really love orky stuff but I also like tournaments so that's what I do. 2+ FnP green tide is hilariously awesome.
A new local player is planning on running the Necron Decurion detachment. They're Ld 10 and across the board and have 4+ RP. This should be interesting. Reading back through this thread, it sounds like the best ideas for dealing with Necrons are to field Lootas, KMK's, Lobbas, MANz, SAG Meks, Deffkoptas, Tankbustas and Warbikers. On paper, regular Boyz fall short of the Necron Warriors, but they would stand a decent chance on the charge. I don't have a Stompa or flyers, but I do have access to all the above units. I might be better off taking 2 min units of Gretchin and spending the rest of my points on Heavy, Elite and Fast slots.
My experience with Necrons is that Mega Nobz and the Mega Armored Warboss are worth their weight in gold. Necrons have a deceptively large number of units with Toughness 5, such as Wraiths and Lychguard. You NEED that Strength 10 Power Klaw to bring those bastards down. Always include a Painboy with your Warboss so you can get that FNP save as well.
Lootas are great at taking out Tomb Blades, which should be eliminated very quickly, since they Ignore Cover and will wipe out your Lootas or any other troops out in the open as soon as they get a chance. Unless you have a Kustom Force Field, you'll simply get no save at all.
Kustom Mega Blastas are great, but struggle with range. They're still cheap enough to include though. Also consider Tracktor Kannons to take out their fliers.
Amusingly I also found that Blitza Bommas work pretty well against Necrons.
Tankbustas are also great, especially if the Necron player brings vehicles, but in my experience it's the Infantry that will really cause you issues.
Normal Ork shooting against Necrons is like firing ping pong balls at a brick wall. They're just going to save vs. EVERYTHING. Stay away from their assaulty units like Lychguard and Flayed Ones, and shoot them down. The only exception is Wraiths should be assaulted by MegaNobz, preferably with a Warboss and Painboy in tow. When it comes to Immortals and Warriors, shoot and assault. Avoid expensive transports like Battlewagons, but use cheap Trucks for your MegaNobz.
Played against Necrons last night. My basic strategy was to keep my distance and pour on the Dakka before assaulting his remaining forces. Yep, MANz and KMK's are worth their weight in teef. I stuck a MAWB with the KMK's to walk them forward for some turn 2 shooting. TL Rokkit Deffkoptas pulled their weight, no real surprise there, and I put some extra pressure on with Rokkits from the Boyz units and Trukks. I tried a SAG Mek on a bike, but I had some poor roles the first 3 turns. Bummer. Lootas and Lobbas did pretty well, although my Lobba shots were scattering like crazy. He DS'd some Deathmarks into my DZ which was annoying, but I finished them off the next turn. I think on the whole I'd rather take more KMK's and Deffkoptas over the SAG. They're just more reliable.
I played in a team game today, 1000 points for each person in a 2 v 2. I haven't played maelstrom in a while, but it was crazy. My Speed Freeks were raking in the points. At the end I had 13 points, and the next closest was like 7 or 8. Does anyone else feel that Orks do better in maelstrom of war scenarios? I feel like builds that favor cheap, fast, expendable units do really well in that type of game, and Orks have access to a lot of that stuff.
Anyone ever try small, but "Elite" Ork style lists?
I ran an 1850 list that was a CAD, Blitz Brigade and Bully boyz. I was against Tau Maelstrom mission type. He had standard firing lines, some kroot shields and a deep striking ap 1/2 spam commander squad with shield drones.
I ended up actually winning (To the amazement of all) due to
1. Catching my opponent entirely by surprise. Who expects a smaller ork army?
2. Tons of killkannon pie plate spam. Throwing down five of those a turn is pretty dang brutal. Even when they hit your own things its not all that bad considering your get your 2+ armors and if it hits another wagon its a 5 to glance.
3. The bullyboyz just destroyed everything they touched. Now this was Tau I was fighting so I expected nothing in CqC, but even say against the sturdy Space Marines it wouldnt look good for them. The Fear can help + the WS 5 is also nice.
So essentially it was an Orky Deathwing. Its like my Orks saw some Dark Angels fight once and said "We kan do dat to!".
So yeah anyone else try these kinda ork lists? What was your experience with them? I know I really like the Blitz Brigade formation, but I am not sure if it would be as good with normal boyz and such in them instead of the big boyz.
So yeah anyone else try these kinda ork lists? What was your experience with them? I know I really like the Blitz Brigade formation, but I am not sure if it would be as good with normal boyz and such in them instead of the big boyz.
Iam trying sum thing different the next time I go to a "unlimited amount of detachment' tournament (1850).
MOGROK FORMATION
- Warboss + Mega armor + Lucky stikk + bosspole
- Big Mek (Mogrok) + mega armor + thinking capp + combi skorcha
- Big Mek + Bike + big choppa + combi skorcha
- Big Mek + Bike + big choppa + combi skorcha
- Weirdboy + level 2 upgrade
THRAKA DETACHMENT
- Big Mek + Bike + big choppa + combi skorcha + Big Kustom Force Field (4+ inv)
- Warboss + bike + power claw + combi skorcha + Big bosspole (fearless)
- 10 grots + runtherd
- 5 commando's
- All characters join the loota's.
- Weirdboyz go full Daemonology sanctic powers
- Mega armor warboss on the front with a reroll 2+/3+ (sanctuary)
- weirdboyz can teleport closer and give the unit hammerhand + force.
- Bikes can also detach at any time
-loota's can shoot after teleport (slow and purposeful)
Its one big deathstar that could even take on the thunderwolfstar.
So yeah anyone else try these kinda ork lists? What was your experience with them? I know I really like the Blitz Brigade formation, but I am not sure if it would be as good with normal boyz and such in them instead of the big boyz.
Iam trying sum thing different the next time I go to a "unlimited amount of detachment' tournament (1850).
MOGROK FORMATION
- Warboss + Mega armor + Lucky stikk + bosspole
- Big Mek (Mogrok) + mega armor + thinking capp + combi skorcha
- Big Mek + Bike + big choppa + combi skorcha
- Big Mek + Bike + big choppa + combi skorcha
- Weirdboy + level 2 upgrade
THRAKA DETACHMENT
- Big Mek + Bike + big choppa + combi skorcha + Big Kustom Force Field (4+ inv)
- Warboss + bike + power claw + combi skorcha + Big bosspole (fearless)
- 10 grots + runtherd
- 5 commando's
- All characters join the loota's.
- Weirdboyz go full Daemonology sanctic powers
- Mega armor warboss on the front with a reroll 2+/3+ (sanctuary)
- weirdboyz can teleport closer and give the unit hammerhand + force.
- Bikes can also detach at any time
-loota's can shoot after teleport (slow and purposeful)
Its one big deathstar that could even take on the thunderwolfstar.
If I were you I'd swap some wierdboys for zhadsnark to turn those grots into bikes. I think you'll bet a lot more use out of having a bunch of 3 man bike squads running around. Much better at grabbing objectives. Also remember that any double perils on sanctic so you're going to be losing orks left and right. Also blessing don't stack so best invul save you'll get is 6. It seems an expensive way to get a 6+.
So yeah anyone else try these kinda ork lists? What was your experience with them? I know I really like the Blitz Brigade formation, but I am not sure if it would be as good with normal boyz and such in them instead of the big boyz.
Iam trying sum thing different the next time I go to a "unlimited amount of detachment' tournament (1850)........
If I were you I'd swap some wierdboys for zhadsnark to turn those grots into bikes. I think you'll bet a lot more use out of having a bunch of 3 man bike squads running around. Much better at grabbing objectives. Also remember that any double perils on sanctic so you're going to be losing orks left and right. Also blessing don't stack so best invul save you'll get is 6. It seems an expensive way to get a 6+.
I need those 7+ weirdboy to make "sure" I got 'gate' + 'sanctuary' and then I could also afford to lose one or two weirdboyz. I also got a painboy with 3 grot orderly so i could use 'feel no pain' against the perils with a reroll..
Mogrok also gives d3 units outflank/acute senses and gets another warlord trait roll on strategic (infiltrate maybe?). You also seem to forget that i got a mega Kustom force field, so thats a 4+ inv against shooting + sanctuary gives me a 3+ inv save.
Waaagh 18 wrote: I played in a team game today, 1000 points for each person in a 2 v 2. I haven't played maelstrom in a while, but it was crazy. My Speed Freeks were raking in the points. At the end I had 13 points, and the next closest was like 7 or 8. Does anyone else feel that Orks do better in maelstrom of war scenarios? I feel like builds that favor cheap, fast, expendable units do really well in that type of game, and Orks have access to a lot of that stuff.
How about taking KMKs instead of loota's, you get t7 against shooting in that case. On average 10 str 7 ap 4 hits vs 5 str 8 ap 2 blasts is very similar in damage output (and for sure not even close to enough for 1850 points, which is kind of your problem here in either case). Is there any way to find points for shock attack gunz on the bike meks?
killerdou wrote: How about taking KMKs instead of loota's, you get t7 against shooting in that case. On average 10 str 7 ap 4 hits vs 5 str 8 ap 2 blasts is very similar in damage output (and for sure not even close to enough for 1850 points, which is kind of your problem here in either case). Is there any way to find points for shock attack gunz on the bike meks?
I have been thinking about that, but I decided to go with the 15 loota's for the following reasons:
Artillery cannot assault, so I have to detach all the bikes and/or other characters if i want to do that. When I deep strike/teleport this big bubble, I want to protect this big unit and that means placing models in a certain way; KFF in the middel, mega armor warboss at the front etc.. With Loota's its possible to keep the unit together and even assault multiple units, because the bikes can slingshot the unit to a particular direction.
Also artillery doesn't have the 'er we go' rule so the don't count for the weirdboyz extra warp charge and when my 'fearless' warboss dies or moves away its not possible to use the mob rule.
I have also been thinking about shock attack guns, but its a lot of points for 'overkilling' a unit. Also 15 loota's are better at taking down flyers.
Dont underestimate the shooting output of the weirdboyz.. its possible to teleport and then use cleansing flame and/or vortex blasts and even teleport back after that. If my first 3/4 weirdboyz got the sanctic powers I want then I could also give the others the ork powers which comes with a primaris blast power and a lot of other shooting..
killerdou wrote: How about taking KMKs instead of loota's, you get t7 against shooting in that case. On average 10 str 7 ap 4 hits vs 5 str 8 ap 2 blasts is very similar in damage output (and for sure not even close to enough for 1850 points, which is kind of your problem here in either case). Is there any way to find points for shock attack gunz on the bike meks?
I have been thinking about that, but I decided to go with the 15 loota's for the following reasons:
Artillery cannot assault, so I have to detach all the bikes and/or other characters if i want to do that. When I deep strike/teleport this big bubble, I want to protect this big unit and that means placing models in a certain way; KFF in the middel, mega armor warboss at the front etc.. With Loota's its possible to keep the unit together and even assault multiple units, because the bikes can slingshot the unit to a particular direction.
Also artillery doesn't have the 'er we go' rule so the don't count for the weirdboyz extra warp charge and when my 'fearless' warboss dies or moves away its not possible to use the mob rule.
I have also been thinking about shock attack guns, but its a lot of points for 'overkilling' a unit. Also 15 loota's are better at taking down flyers.
Dont underestimate the shooting output of the weirdboyz.. its possible to teleport and then use cleansing flame and/or vortex blasts and even teleport back after that. If my first 3/4 weirdboyz got the sanctic powers I want then I could also give the others the ork powers which comes with a primaris blast power and a lot of other shooting..
I like it. I highly suggest NOT using a SAG Mek in this build. You have enough randomness already and the SAG usually offers little or harms greatly. Otherwise make sure to tell us how it goes
Automatically Appended Next Post: I played and lost 2 games last Thursday night, first against Eldar, second against Necrons. Both happened to be the Malestrom mission where you can steal each other's numbered objective cards.
Both games my Tankbustas on Foot were my favorite unit.
A unit of Ten Eldar jet bikes came in and killed 10 out of 15 Tankbustas. They pass their Ld test. Next turn, 5 out of 5 Tankbustas hit and wound his 3+ save bikes!!! It was awesome. My Opp. didn't Jink as he assumed normal Ork rolling.
Second game, a unit of Wraiths assault my Tankbustas. After previous turns of shooting and overwatch he enters CC with 3 wraiths left, one of which has a wound. After the first round my Tankbustas manage one wound. He puts it on an unwounded wraith. Second round of combat, my non PK Tankbusta nob at I3 deals out 2 unsaved wounds against his 2 wounded Wraiths!! It was unbelievable. His remaining Wraith ends up wiping the mob eventually but the moral is: never count an Ork out until they're dead.
My Orks were woefully out gunned AND outclassed in CC in both games. Also, generic Ork flyer sucks. Going to try the bomber variant in 2 weeks.
I've had moderate success with playing blitz brigade lately. My only gripe is that the only good thing my battlewagonz seem to be doing is getting the boyz to the fight, which can be invaluable but I'd like to give my transports something to make points with. Currently, I'm considering investing points to get a grabby klaw and wrecking ball on all wagonz. Has this combo done work for anyone?
Haven't played in the new edition, yet, but I love Grabbin' Klay and Wrekkin' Ball on my wagons. They're relatively cheap, and they give you some interesting takticcal flexibility you wouldn't think you'd have on a vehicle- plus the Ball can do a little bit off self-defense if someone assaults your Wagon (maybe).
Or, you know, just grab on to an enemy vehicle and start pummeling it.
Rismonite wrote: I've had moderate success with playing blitz brigade lately. My only gripe is that the only good thing my battlewagonz seem to be doing is getting the boyz to the fight, which can be invaluable but I'd like to give my transports something to make points with. Currently, I'm considering investing points to get a grabby klaw and wrecking ball on all wagonz. Has this combo done work for anyone?
How about Ramming and Tank Shocking. That is what my transports do after discharging the boyz. A Battlewagon with a Ram, Rams stuff at Strength 9.
I don't like the Recking Ball because it is D3 shots with a 3" range and Ork Ballistic skill. For the same price you could trade it for 2 Rokkits that have a 24" range and a better AP. The Grabbin' Klaw is a bit more appealing, but only situationally. It is great against Maulerfiends, and certain other Walkers. Also good against Imperial Knights or Super Heavy Walkers. It won't do anything in 9 of 10 games, but in that one game it might be big. If I were list tailoring I would sometimes include Grabbin' Klaws, but haven't found them to be useful in a TAC list. Then again, I've never run Blitz brigade. The closest I've gotten is 3 Battle Wagons, 2 Gun Wagons, a Looted Wagon, and 2 Trukks.
PipeAlley wrote: I like the idea of a Wrecking Ball and Rokkit on Trukks. Potential of 4 Str 8 attacks, after Tank Shocking a unit.
I never liked adding anymore points to a trukk then I had too, but I might consider one of these in the few games I carry a trukk of grots. That feels like an awesome use for fast that I've never used.
1. Never let them get more than one save (unless its invulnerable)
That means shoot for ap2 and 3 weapons only.
Yes, technically their warrior cast has amour 4+ but ap3 will cut 90% of armor.
Use KMKs, Tankbustas, Killkannons, Big Bombs, SAGs, Flashgitz, Powerklaws, Rokkits, and the Blitz-Bike.
2. Lower their Reanimation roll as often as possible
That means you need to double their toughness as much as possible. Use s8 or higher weapons.
Use KMKs, Tankbustas, Rokkits, Powerklaws and random told from the SAG but don't count on it.
3. Never let anything but a Deffdread or Gorkanaut touch Flayed Ones.
A unit of Flayed Ones will wreck you. Just strip you naked and take it all from you. Shoot them the moment you see them and dinner stop till they are dead.
4. They have armor 13 vehicles.
We are not great at anti vehicle outside melee combat. So either get into melee with them asap, pray you get lucky with Tankbustas, or ignore them and pray they get bad rolls.
5. @#$% Wraiths.
You can pray they get in charge range of a 30 man squad of boys to tie them up for awhile. Their invuln and toughness means we're pretty SOL. So tie them up and pray they die to luck. A Warboss or Mad Doc can kill them, but you're likely to die before them without boys for cannon fodder.
6. Litchguard are unkillable.
Just face it, they have an Invulnerable 3+, Toughness 5, will likely have a 4+ Reanimation roll, and with the right IC reroll 1s on their saves... So they fail invuln on a 2 then have a 4+ reanimation...
Good news is they are slow as heck. Bad news is they are S7ap2 at initiative 2. So throwing anything at them just buys time. Send boys at them and pray you tie them up. You cannot kill them.
8. Play Maelstrom when you can, or play to the mission. Never play "Purge the Alien" against them. Ever. It won't be fun, I promise you.
They are slow and wont have a ton of units, you can be fast and will have a butt load of units.
So in summation, Lootas are useless, see above to understand why.
Tankbustas are for troop killing.
S8+ is your sweet spot.
Some Necron units cannot be killed.
Play to the mission.
Speaking of Tank Shocks, I once stopped Blitzthundering(?) Baneblade with immobile Trukk which survived and proceeded to mock the massive warmachine rest of the game. (We called it a game in next turn as time started to run out)
I'm hoping someone can help me out with some advice for a game I've got coming up against Eldar with some Grey Knight allies. It will be quite a large game and will be the first time I've played against the new Eldar codex (only played them once previously, a couple of years ago) and I'm not sure which units will be most useful to me. Any and all comments are appreciated!
xlDuke wrote: I'm hoping someone can help me out with some advice for a game I've got coming up against Eldar with some Grey Knight allies. It will be quite a large game and will be the first time I've played against the new Eldar codex (only played them once previously, a couple of years ago) and I'm not sure which units will be most useful to me. Any and all comments are appreciated!
Any army with a lot of psykers like Eldar and Grey Knoghts can destroy Orks very easily to due Psykic attacks that target Ld. Usually it's 3D6 against 7 and you take that many wounds. It's rough. They can also force morale checks so you run off the table. They're bikes are fast with good saves and excellent weapons for cheap. The Serpant shield was nerferd but still is quite good. Knowing you're going to play them you could go Max MSU or possibly weird boy psychic defense? I've won and lost against Eldar with my standard Ork list.
Most importantly: be comfortable about challenging your opponents codex rules. Many players will accidentally use older versions of rules or just not remember them. If they don't have their codex with them, don't play against them.
Eldar like jumping around all the place to snatch up objectives. Try to stay in the center of the board so it's easier to catch them. Maybe, and this is a big maybe, take a weirdboy for that deny the witch. There are definitely better HQs, but I'd consider it if they're investing heavily in psykers.
Lastly, Eldar vehicles are scary, but it's nothing a good PK can't tear open. Waaagh-ing into a fire prism or whatever tank they've got is unexpected and, granted you make it, safe since tanks can't overwatch.
Don't Take a Wierdboy. Forget about psychic powers, and psychic defense. They are throwing too many dice to thwart. Run Trukks. Eldar and grey Knights both can kill them with ease. Walk large squads of Naked boyz. Cleansing flame, and scatter lasers can deal with them too effectively. Shoot at Warp Spiders. They can jump out of charge range, and you will usually do more damage in assault. Assault Grey Knights unless you are pretty sure you can win. Take Killa Kans or Deff Dreads. Both armies have the tools to kill them.
Do Take as many Solo Deff Koptas as you can. They can screw with Eldar Jetbikes by tarpitting them. Rokkits give them a chance to Ignore 3+ armor, and lets them do some damage. 6 is a good number. Run Battle Wagons and Gun Wagons. Eldar and Grey Knights Have trouble dealing with them. Just watch out for deep striking psycannons. Consider Mek Guns. KMK's and Lobbas work especially well. Just be wary assaults. Consider Bikerstar. Zhardsnark + Warbikers + DLS Warboss + Painboy on bike can shoot most Grey Knigths to death, and can Assault most Eldar. Put a naked Mek in every squad of boyz that you can. Grey Knights have lots of characters that can challenge out and punk a nob, so eat those challenges with a Mek. Consider a Stompa. It can put a hurting on both of those armies, and mainly has to fear Dread Knights and Wraith Knights. Consider a Void Shield Generator. It will really reduce Eldar ranged shooting damage. Consider Gorkanauts. Unless they have a Double D Wraith knight, it can hang with anything on the table except for Dread Knights, and you can guard it from dread knights. Take a warboss with Da Lucky Stikk. +1 WS, and rerolling to hit will be a gigantic help against grey Knights. Mega Armor can work, but is iffy because you can't run.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here is a fun list to play against Grey Knights and Eldar.
Gunwagon (RR)
5 Lobbas (4 Ammo Runts)
5 KMKs (5 Ammo Runts)
How it works. If you go 1st, you can deploy the Deffkoptas. If not, you can reserve them depending on mission. A deployment that is 4 Vehicles with Front AV 13 and 2 T7 units is pretty rough for both Eldar and Grey Knights. Usually the Grey Knights are going to Deep strike, and the Gorkanaught and Mek Guns do their best to deal with them. Meanwhile your Wagons go hunting the Eldar. If need be, Wagon 1 can deal with a Grey Knight deathstar. The Gunwagon is for hunting Dread Knights.
I was building a Stompa list for the 1st time in months, and remembered 1/2 through that it isn't an assault transport. What kind of War Effigy is that?
tag8833 wrote: I was building a Stompa list for the 1st time in months, and remembered 1/2 through that it isn't an assault transport. What kind of War Effigy is that?
Yeah, I always felt that was an oversight, something they also missed out on both the Gorkanaut/Morkanaut. Would make delivery into an assault much more interesting, but then again most of the time we fill them meks anyways so I guess its not too much of a loss, just feels weird that they're one of the few vehicles that Orks can't assault out of.
My suggestion? Movement trays for when they're going through open terrain, (just a sheet of hefty plasticard or cardstock should work), and for when you're doing fancier maneuvers, don't worry about which Boy is which in particular. Specials, like Nobs or heavy weapons, of course, need to be moved properly, but for the rest, figure out where you want the front of the unit to move, and just take models from the back and put them there- moves the whole unit with fewer actual model movements.
Of course, run that technique by your opponent first, to make sure they're okay with it (and the TO of course, in organized play).
Yeah. I was at one point completely down to clown with the greentide formation, but after actually playing a decent number of games, movement is tough for orks. The leapfrog method "leapwaagh?" is a good way to move models, but having over 200 boyz just seems silly. Don't know how effective it would be, either.
Most I've done is 190 I think. Play it with a few people who don't mind first and get good at moving them quickly. I think that many boyz could work. Most people don't have that many bullets in 7 turns. IG and some others will give you problems but the small elite armies will quake in fear seeing they are outnumbered by 10-1 or more. Unless they can reliably deal 10 wounds a turn without taking any. Practice doing it quickly. Also I know whenever I have played ill measure the first line and then move everyone up keeping the same spacing and maybe moving a nob less than his distance or moving boyz diagonally to shield said nobz. I have yet to have anyone complain in a while. I can get a turn done with the tide than some people and their space Marines lol.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also to be fair most of our assault vehicles only get the rule because they are open topped. I don't want my walkers to be open topped.
I think the thing about Assault Vehicles is that it seems as though there's a ton of those fiddly, handy rules out there that are Marine specific, even if they'd make just as much sense (and are supposedly 'general rules') with other races. Like the Naughts- you'd think that Orks would love putting things like aggressively-opening breacher doors on their transports so that the Boyz can literally explode out of them, right? But nope. About the only non-open-topped Assault vehicle in the game is the Land Raider (and maybe one of the Eldar vehicles?)
Same with a couple other things that could be fluffy, and seem to have just been forgotten.
The Tankbusta's lack of Tankhunters in the last edition is a great example of this- it seemed so obvious, but was left out of the rules for some strange reason.
Thanks to the people who posted advice for me and the game I had against Eldar & Grey Knights, I ended up using my Stompa for the first time with some KMK's and everything else in Battlewagons. It was a crazy game, the Stompa performed pretty well and got into combat with the Wraith Knight at the end of the game and killed it in one round (WK had no strength D, thankfully!) then got blown up by some strength D artillery when it tried to claim an objective. My tankbustas got first blood on a Dark Eldar skimmer, murdered a unit of War Walkers and shot a Storm Eagle Gunship carrying Terminators and a Dreadnaught out of the sky in one turn of shooting. My Warboss kept rolling 1's for LoS and armour saves but still managed to kill a Purgation squad (I think) with Psycannons and half of a combat-squaded Purifier squad. My KMKs spent a lot of the game moving forward but still took wounds off various things and helped out the Stompa's Deff Kannon to thin the numbers of a Paladin unit who swiftly used Gate of Infinity to escape to somewhere a bit safer and scare a unit of grots off an objective
It was a tough game to play and I ended up losing but had an absolute blast! The Eldar had an incredibly strong shooting phase, strength D and Lance attacks all over the place and I had to work very hard to try and pick these units apart. The psychic phase was on another level with all the buffs and de-buffs available to Eldar and GK. Great fun to play against though!
I was considering fielding a unit of Burna Boyz to assist in dealing with Necrons. They have some tempting features (template weapons, Overwatch d3 auto-hit, and they can use an AP3 weapon in CC). But geeze they are just too expensive points-wise! A minimum unit of Burna Boyz is 80 points, and each additional one is 16ppm. A minimum unit of Tankbustas is 65 points base, and each additional Tankbusta is 13ppm. This isn't new news I know, just sharing my thoughts.
I have the models, so I still might take a single unit of them. On the other hand, I could take two Skorcha Trakks for the same cost as 1 unit of Burna Boyz, and they can Outflank. And considering that I would certainly buy the Burna Boyz a Trukk, I could almost take 3 Skorcha Trakks for the same cost.
chaosmarauder wrote: I was thinking of fielding 3 x 5-man kommando units each with 2 burnas
I still have 3 of the boxed sets of kommandos and lots of leftover burnas from my lootas to make this happen.
I'm starting an escalation league in a couple of weeks, and I have 40 Kommandos and Converted Kommandos ready to be painted as part of it. If there is a way to make a winning list built around Kommandos I'm going to try to find it.
If you are doing 3 squads of Kommandos, you might as well do 4 and run the formation.
Also - just for fun - im going to convert up a grot vindicaire assassin, still figuring out what bits to use but its gonna be epic - sort of like a mek created him as the ultimate weapon lol , if it works out ill do all 4 assassins and call them 'the sneaky gits'
Automatically Appended Next Post: hmm just thought of throwing some night goblin fanatic bits into the mix...
I've tried out red skull kommandoes.
2*15 with pk nob
2*5 barebones
bunker with comms relay
Won a game vs IG gunline. Went out 2-d turn Basically, best possible scenario for kommandoes. Ig and successful reserves. They forced the opponent to hug backline border edges, so i could take and hold some middleboard points with stuff i got.
Here are some general thoughts after a game that might be useful for those who haven't tried them yet:
1. Comms relay - a must. Choose for yourself where you get it from. I've chosen a bunker (wall of martyrs) cause it could hide 8 shooting lootas inside. Another way i use a bunker is to get an escape hatch for dls megaboss + 15 tankbustas + sometimes wierdboy. That game i didn't use the combo, but it can help with midboard presence unless you face s10 ap2 blasts or things alike that are able to demolish a dls warboss in one go.
Alternatively, you could go crazy and ally in autarch or something.
2. Don't overinvest into kommandoes. Yep, i know, it's tempting to get 4 squads of 10-15, special weapons like burnas, pk everywhere but than it gets too expensive and you're left with 2/3 of your forces vs the whole enemy army for at least a turn. This is horrible for orks. And there's also another reason described in 3.
3. Don't expect to get into cover with all 4 squads. You're coming from a single board edge. The enemy knows you're coming soon and blocks the most tasty parts of the board. Furthermore, there's usually simply not enough terrain to hide everyone even if it's not blocked away. And even if there is enough terrain, you must remember that they're still footslogging boyz and need to get in right places to threaten the opponent and not just somewhere in ruins to sit there shooting sluggas. Besides, you don't really want to get charged. Mellee-oriented enemy will chew through your 10 ppm boyz like they're...6 ppm boyz. Hence 2 squads of 5 barebones dudes. To be the first line and grant 5+ cover and sorta charge protection for the larger squads when needed.
4. You need to build a list around them. They won't be great on their own. Kommandoes need to be an anvil. You need some forces pushing forward. And this is problematic cause you still spend a ton of points on kommandoes and backline dudes you can't do stuff without.
Oh, and expect to screw up at least 1/9 of the games when you simply don't get reserves turn 2 =P
Automatically Appended Next Post: I've also tried Snikrot + 10 kommandoes with a pk nob and 2 burnas.
Overpriced. But i got lucky and they blew up a command landraider with a single hit.
Tactically usable squad. Burnas are way too expensive, however. I'll probably go with bigshootas, rokkits or simply more bodies next time.
Thinking about Kommandos special weapons. I've used them a few times as MSU.
Something like this: 5 Kommandos + 2 Big Shootas can camp an objective. Go to Ground for a 2+ in ruins, and provide a small amount of fire support. Generally I don't even bother with the Big Shootas, but I think I've come around on that. I was running 2 squads like this with my 2 Detachment Green Tide.
I've also run this: 5 Kommandos + 2 Burnas + Nob (BP, BC). The secret sauce here is that the Burnas are AP 3 in assault. So this can be suprisingly good in close combat, and threaten most backfield units.
But when I look at the formation, this is what I'm thinking
5 Kommandos (Stand in front of the others to give them a cover save).
5 Kommandos (2 Burnas) + Nob (BC, BP) <- This squad can shoot if need be the turn it arrives.
5 Kommandos + Nob (PK, BP)
5 Kommandos + Snickroot + Nob (PK, BP).
Bringing in over 400 points of assault oriented reserves feels problematic. But it is enough to occupy an opponent's backfield, and coupled with a mid field controller like a Bikestar, Stompa, or Green Tide, it feels like it might work.
Another thing I've been considering is bringing in a unit like this:
5 Kommandos (2 Big Shootas) + Nob (PK, BP) + Snikroot + Big Mek (Warbike) + Warboss (Warbike, PK, DLS).
Thanks to Shrouded, you can Tank with the Big Mek on a 2+ (Or the Warboss if you want to reroll), so you don't need cover to Walk on. Basically a delivery system for a Warboss on Bike to the Opponent Backfield. It might even be a place for Ghazbag's Blitzbike because it lets you pick your board edge to come on. The Big Mek and Warboss can go off a killing one thing while the Kommandos krump another.
Another application of this is Mogrok's Bossboyz. It gets you 3 Big Meks and a Warboss that you can put on bikes, and bring in attached to Snikroot. Give one Mek a KFF. Outflank yourself a Gorkanaut or 6 Killa Kans. It would maximize the potential of Power Vomit or Kill Bolt as well on the Wierdboy.
Something like this:
Spoiler:
Mogrok's Bossboyz
Big Mek (Bike, Killsaw, KFF) <- Mogrok
Big Mek <- Goes in Gorkanaut
Big Mek (Bike)
Warboss (Bike, DLS, PK)
Wierdboy
CAD Painboy (Bike)
5 Kommandos (2 Burnas) + Nob (PK, BP) + Snikrot.
5 Tankbusts (2 BS) in a Trukk (RR)
5 Tankbusts (2 BS) in a Trukk (RR)
You can null deploy except for some Gretchin, and the Lobbas behind the ADL. If you are worried about getting tabled, deploy the Deff Koptas. On turn 2....
Its not a great list, but I think it goes a long ways towards polishing the Turd that is the Gorkanaut and Killa Kans
Independent Characters and Infiltrate
An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during
deployment.
Wouldn't that mean you can't deploy big meks with the kommandos?
Independent Characters and Infiltrate
An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during
deployment.
Wouldn't that mean you can't deploy big meks with the kommandos?
What are people's thoughts on the viability of Killkannons for Battlewagons now? I know that they are widely considered suboptimal, but with the new Eldar Bikes with 3+ armor, the space marine menace, and the necrons and their thick armor is it finally worth it to include the semi-reliable AP 3?
Well it's half price of what they were AND you can take them on DT for MANz so I think they could synergize with the 5 Scouting BW formation since you can scout to help with the 25" range.
They're the same cost as 6 upgrade Rokkits and cause other weapons to snap fire, but reroll armor penetration. If you got an average of 2 hits per Large Blast, that'd be equal to the 6 Rokkits. So maybe take 3 on the DTMANz Bully Boyz, but not on the other two that are filled with Tankbustas? Honestly I wish it was Str 8, it'd make it a lot easier to say yes.
I think the problem with killkannons is largely due to it being ordnance (meaning that any additional weapons are purely for weapons destroyed purposes rather than supplementary firepower because of snapfire) having only 24" range and most of all missing the crucial bit of strength that makes things like FNP or RP for Necrons be affected. When there's better options like the Supa-Kannon (which is now a Primary weapon, meaning your big shootas aren't effectively useless and you can use skorchas if you want to), its hard to say yes even when its gotten cheaper.
Waaagh 18 wrote: What are people's thoughts on the viability of Killkannons for Battlewagons now? I know that they are widely considered suboptimal, but with the new Eldar Bikes with 3+ armor, the space marine menace, and the necrons and their thick armor is it finally worth it to include the semi-reliable AP 3?
I run a lot of Battlewagons in my lists and I found them to be incredibly good when transporting units like Flash Gitz, Tankbustas, or Nobz (mega or standard). Really good with Blitz Brigade as you tend to not move as much on turn 1 so its an easy 6" move (or remain stationary for Flash Gitz Battlewagons) and fire with decent target opportunity. I don't really like cutting into the transport capacity for Boyz Battlewagons as those 8 models really makes a big difference in close combat. I would never take a Killkannon Battlewagon empty as you should instead look to bring the Supa Kannon from Forgeworld (Big Trakks are better Supa Kannon platforms anyways). Never ran a looted wagon in 7th despite my Death Skull theme army. Looted wagons just seem too slot inefficient to really field when Mek Guns exist.
I'm probably going to run a ton of looted wagons in my bloodaxe themed army. Mostly because they are cheap and transports and I think they could compliment the loads of kommandos and some stormboyz.
I prefer taking things like Mek Gunz over killkannons. You get a kustom mega kannon for the same price, and it has grots with their BS 3, and you can have an entire battery of them for much cheaper than it would take to do on Battlewagons. The issue is they're not mobile, and moving them is a pain, but I think it's worth saving the points.
Now, if you're running a whole bunch of wagons, yeah, I'd definitely strap one or two onto transports for elite units. Definitely not on boyz.
Vitali you must have a lot of money then... Each one is 40~us dollars... So each unit is 200~$... I'm not saying they aren't amazing, I'm saying I have 5. And I already own 2BWs with kill kannons and I have 3looted wagons with old Boomguns. It's options and pricing.
I have taken to deploying 5 looted wagons all with KK in my past two games and they served me very well. 335 points for 5 s7ap3 pie plates a turn? I mean sure they got destroyed easily when they were looked at, but for 67 points each I dont expect them to tear the house down. For the threat they bring though they work pretty well as distraction/cover forces so the rest of the ork army can advance.
I had one really like shot in a game versus space marines where his 10 man deep strike dev squad all got caught by a direct hit killkannon. 10 dice rolls later his entire squad got vaporized. Wagon paid for itself 3 times over.
Thanks for your thoughts on Looted Wagons, and the idea of burning out the 'crons with some Burna Boyz. I think I might stick a minimum squad of Burna Boyz in a trukk and try that. I could mount Skorchas on a Looted Wagon too I suppose.
FratHammer wrote: Vitali you must have a lot of money then... Each one is 40~us dollars... So each unit is 200~$... I'm not saying they aren't amazing, I'm saying I have 5. And I already own 2BWs with kill kannons and I have 3looted wagons with old Boomguns. It's options and pricing.
You could scratch build them. That's what I'm doing.
FratHammer wrote: Vitali you must have a lot of money then... Each one is 40~us dollars... So each unit is 200~$... I'm not saying they aren't amazing, I'm saying I have 5. And I already own 2BWs with kill kannons and I have 3looted wagons with old Boomguns. It's options and pricing.
I use ww2 guns - they're like 3-4 dollars a piece and have almost better details and are roughly the same size.
FratHammer wrote: Vitali you must have a lot of money then... Each one is 40~us dollars... So each unit is 200~$... I'm not saying they aren't amazing, I'm saying I have 5. And I already own 2BWs with kill kannons and I have 3looted wagons with old Boomguns. It's options and pricing.
I use ww2 guns - they're like 3-4 dollars a piece and have almost better details and are roughly the same size.
I used 3 Trukk Kits and 1 Mek Gun Kits and a few spare bits to make 10 Mek Guns.
Spoiler:
Honestly, I recommend this to everyone. The Mek Gun kit is terrific, but if you are running 5 of them side by side it looks better if there is some variation.
so with the recent itc ruleing use orks can now bring big mek buzzgobz big mek stompa for 300 pts. a 300 pt stompa! thats just 20pt more then a kff morkanaut. my question here is what would be some competitive lists for this stompa? i was thinking of one were i jhave the bullyboyz in truks protected by bigmek on bike with mega force field while the stompa runs up the other side of the board. either the enemy has to focus the bully boyz or the superheavy. what are your opinions. is the 400 pts for an hq and bigmek stompa worth it? what type of list would work best with the superheavy?
Quick question regarding the Buzzgob stompa. Mek Buzzgob himself is 100pts, to exchange to a big mek stompa costs 300pts. Wouldn't you need to buy the Mek for 100 pts and then add 300pts to exchange him for the stompa. Therefore a 400pt stompa? Still great just wondering. I like this stompa kitted up with all the shooting weapons my self. Be one massive shooting beacon that is tough to take down. Fill him with some lootas for even more shots
skycapt44 wrote: Quick question regarding the Buzzgob stompa. Mek Buzzgob himself is 100pts, to exchange to a big mek stompa costs 300pts. Wouldn't you need to buy the Mek for 100 pts and then add 300pts to exchange him for the stompa. Therefore a 400pt stompa? Still great just wondering. I like this stompa kitted up with all the shooting weapons my self. Be one massive shooting beacon that is tough to take down. Fill him with some lootas for even more shots
Yes. Buzzgob's Stompa is really 400 points, and generally you are going to add at least one blast and one squad of embarked gretchin for 535 points.
geargutz wrote: so with the recent itc ruleing use orks can now bring big mek buzzgobz big mek stompa for 300 pts. a 300 pt stompa! thats just 20pt more then a kff morkanaut. my question here is what would be some competitive lists for this stompa?
There is literally no Ork list that couldn't be made better by the inclusion of the 300 point Stompa. Any competitive list you've ever run or seen for Orks, is now better, because it has made room for the Stompa. Its the reason I voted against this change. Any unit that is so violently meta shifting and reduces list diversity is a bad thing.
On a hilariously ironic note, my Stompa arrived in the mail today.
Personally, i'd not call it all that terribly ott. As is, it just feels somewhere around an imperial knight in power level. Tougher but doesn't provide a lot of ranged offence. If you want to add in some shooting, you got to pay 100 extra pts. Which is probably worth it. But in the end you get a reasonable 500 pt superheavy. Which is admirably higher than a double massive blast s: D stompa with a hellstorm ap3 flamer.
Mostly in the gits formation. The consensus was - they're not too terrible in blitz brigade. Although, overpriced and not necessery.
Badrukk on his own is just like 2 times more pricey than he should have been and eats up an HQ slot for no good reason.
Yeah...it feels like the writers felt like they needed to compensate for the void left by removed HQ choices like Wazzdakka and Ol Zogwort and instead of either making new models or different characters for them they just threw in Zagstruk and Badrukk in as HQ choices instead and called it a day. Terrible decision given that both have some of the coolest models but have the crappiest of rules. They could have at least given them Warboss stats.
so whats a good load out for a bigmek stompa? i have been toying of getting it both the belly defkanon and the defkanon replacement for the mega klaw.
my thinking is this, more defkanons the better, makeing him a more ranged unit. or does a stompa realy need that mega klaw?
if hes ranged and has grots surounding him then theres little chance for a an unwanted combat with other superheavywalkers or gmc (tankbustas can then sweep in and do that combat).
if anything other than a superheavy or gmc gets into combat with my stompa then a mega klaw seems overkill since he already can stomp them to bitz.
the total price of this stompa after my upgrades is 550pts. not bad for a ranged mork of an efigy.
I think that a choppa is essential. It's purely shooty variant is not really all that great.
I'd either go with a 400-440 pts variant with 0-2 suppa rokkits and no deffkannon or 500-540 pts with 0-2 suppa rokkits and additional deffkannon.
The 2-d option is probably more versatile as a massive s10 ap1 blast is still pretty darn good for orkses. Even for such price. But that's if you move forward and controle the board. You'd be surprised how many things can shrug a non-cover ignoring s10 ap1 massive blast like no big deal nowadays. You do need a backup plan.
Not nearly as frightening as a custom stompa can get cause it wastes points on a lifta-dropa and single-shot d-gaze on a bs2 platform but still pretty decent. That's the ammount of points it should cost in current enviroment.
koooaei wrote: I think that a choppa is essential. It's purely shooty variant is not really all that great.
Spoiler:
I'd either go with a 400-440 pts variant with 0-2 suppa rokkits and no deffkannon or 500-540 pts with 0-2 suppa rokkits and additional deffkannon.
The 2-d option is probably more versatile as a massive s10 ap1 blast is still pretty darn good for orkses. Even for such price. But that's if you move forward and controle the board. You'd be surprised how many things can shrug a non-cover ignoring s10 ap1 massive blast like no big deal nowadays. You do need a backup plan.
Not nearly as frightening as a custom stompa can get cause it wastes points on a lifta-dropa and single-shot d-gaze on a bs2 platform but still pretty decent. That's the ammount of points it should cost in current enviroment
Its still Strength 10 AP 2 with Stomp in CC. It can still move forward aggressively. Not many things can mix it up with a Stompa even without the D. The things that will give you problems are Thunderwolves and Knights. The double Deffkannon can soften them up significantly at range.
I think specifically with ITC and their missions, having something that can threaten backfield gunlines and eliminate mobility starting on turn 1 is pretty valuable. 1 Deff Kannon definitely. 2 are a maybe, but I'm leaning towards yes.
I like it best at 400pts I am not sure I would bother with the Suppa Rokkits. Just use it like a wraith knight and send it out there.
The Lifta Droppa is probably the best single shot weapons orks can have. Destroying a vehicle 1/3 of the time, no saves allowed is hard to argue with. Even destroying a flier 1/6 of the time is great. The Gaze of Mork is kinda a joke, but who knows you might get lucky. 9 big shoota shots is good though...
I do agree having an auto include sucks, even thought we will be better off having it.
Will all that gauss? I've never gotten a wagon even close to a ghostark.
Gauss is only useful if they can afford to acrtually aim it at your vehicles. So give them reasons not to?
Example (to avoid seeming overly vague): Don't deploy much, hide some small units and wait. Then saturate the field with units he cant ignore, only some of which are your vehicles. Make him choose. Even when he does, no guarantee the proximity of the saturation can be stopped. Then trundle up and flaminate them until there's nothing left. Fun.
This requires a really specific build, a list designed to saturate in the 2nd and 3rd rounds instead of attempting a first round decisive blow. It requires some patience as well. But Necrons are eventually going to have to come for those objectives. attacking them later instead of sooner means they must make harder choices about moving vs. Shooting.
Geemoney wrote: I like it best at 400pts I am not sure I would bother with the Suppa Rokkits. Just use it like a wraith knight and send it out there.
I wouldn't bother with Suppa Rokkits either, but Definitely a Squad of Gretchin to give the thing OS. 435 at min. Personally the more I think about it, the more I think 485 for Gretchin, plus swapping out the claw.
Geemoney wrote: The Lifta Droppa is probably the best single shot weapons orks can have. Destroying a vehicle 1/3 of the time, no saves allowed is hard to argue with.
It is good for a single shot, but not that good.
Lets compare it to a Deff Kannon. Shoots at a Rhino, and basically can't miss because the blast is so big. It is a primary weapon, so it Pens 97.3% of the time. It is AP 1, so it explodes 33.33% of the time. Shooting at a rhino without cover you are killing it 32.4% of the time. Which is basically the same as the Lifta Droppa. With cover the damage output is reduced, however, it is still chipping in damage at least 1/2 of the time while threatening more than a single Rhino.
the apocalypse bigmek stompa has decent rules. its got more upgrade options then the codex stompa (real bummer we get a low in codex and the only real upgrades are supa rokits).
Geemoney wrote: I like it best at 400pts I am not sure I would bother with the Suppa Rokkits. Just use it like a wraith knight and send it out there.
I wouldn't bother with Suppa Rokkits either, but Definitely a Squad of Gretchin to give the thing OS. 435 at min. Personally the more I think about it, the more I think 485 for Gretchin, plus swapping out the claw.
Geemoney wrote: The Lifta Droppa is probably the best single shot weapons orks can have. Destroying a vehicle 1/3 of the time, no saves allowed is hard to argue with.
It is good for a single shot, but not that good.
Lets compare it to a Deff Kannon. Shoots at a Rhino, and basically can't miss because the blast is so big. It is a primary weapon, so it Pens 97.3% of the time. It is AP 1, so it explodes 33.33% of the time. Shooting at a rhino without cover you are killing it 32.4% of the time. Which is basically the same as the Lifta Droppa. With cover the damage output is reduced, however, it is still chipping in damage at least 1/2 of the time while threatening more than a single Rhino.
In summary the Deff Kannon is worse at killing vehicles than the Lifta Droppa...
Mostly in the gits formation. The consensus was - they're not too terrible in blitz brigade. Although, overpriced and not necessery.
Badrukk on his own is just like 2 times more pricey than he should have been and eats up an HQ slot for no good reason.
Yeah...it feels like the writers felt like they needed to compensate for the void left by removed HQ choices like Wazzdakka and Ol Zogwort and instead of either making new models or different characters for them they just threw in Zagstruk and Badrukk in as HQ choices instead and called it a day. Terrible decision given that both have some of the coolest models but have the crappiest of rules. They could have at least given them Warboss stats.
Any thoughts on this list? With the ITC ruling, i kinda feel like i have to take the boyz to the LVO now. Im going to playtest it hopefully tomorrow against our best player.
My reasoning on the tide: They are only ONLY a tarpit unit and board control unit. For 100 points, I doubled their ranged damage output. Zardsnark and friens are for PTFO. Stompa is the bullet magnet.
doktor_g wrote: Any thoughts on this list? With the ITC ruling, i kinda feel like i have to take the boyz to the LVO now. Im going to playtest it hopefully tomorrow against our best player.
My reasoning on the tide: They are only ONLY a tarpit unit and board control unit. For 100 points, I doubled their ranged damage output. Zardsnark and friens are for PTFO. Stompa is the bullet magnet.
you get eternal waaagh only when the gt warboss is a warlord. And you get troop bikers pnly when zhad is a warlord.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Gt needs power klaws. Shootas are not very useful, though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If i get it right, we can attach meks to kommandoes. Meks can take combi-skorchas. So, we could technically do a double-burna, double skorcha Snikrot combo.
The meks with kommandos depends I think. Ok I just looked and I think you are correct. They aren't ICs so his ambush rule would still work. Now I want to try putting kmbs on them for tank/heavy infantry popping.... and to watch them fry...
@cleatus. The PB joins the GT. Greentide RAW Can't take a PB as its not an option for the formation.
Anyhow I was able to play 3 games:
((Game1)) was tau and white scars. He's a good tactician but inexperienced in 40k. He had 2 storm surges and a gk in some formation. Plus a riptide some markers and stuff in another. I kinda crushed him with stompa tide. It was mainly due to poor deployment on his part.
((Game 2)) was Eldar DarkEldar. I switched the list up a little. Adding a Mek w KFF on a bike plus 2 MANZ missiles in trukks. Ugh. I got curb stomped. A deep striking wraith guard w 5 Ds. Haemonculuos w WWP. LOTS of walkers w lances. He got FB by killing my 2 trukks. Footy MANz now... Damn. Top of t2 rolls around. He had seized. Stompa goes kaboom to the deep striking no scatter D Wraith guard. Explosion Scatters deep into the tide. None of his army had shot yet except the 1 unit of Dguard. My tide was hollowed. Stompa dead. I wasn't even half way across no mans land... GG. I conceded. Top of 2.
((Game3)) was vs Decuricrons. Pretty standard. No deathstars, but 2 fliers and some unusual units but nothing crazy. This was my buddy's wife who's going to the LVO. She wanted "practice." I found a scenerio that she could (hammer and anvil w scouring). I deployed first but let her go first. I helped her with deployment and tactics. I said go after the tide and ignore the stompa. She did. End of T4. Tide was gone. I had 3 units of Grots. And an untouched stompa. I had gotten tied up with some wraiths. My fault because I suggested it to her. Then I forgot to stomp. Damn. Conceded top of T5. I was pretty drunk anyway. But there's little I coulda done.
So.... I hate my orks. 9000 points. 100% painted. Tide and stompa seem to be my only hope. I will try a list like Fxeni took to the LVO last year. He got 9th or 10th place! My hero.
So I dunno if any of this helps my fellow green skins. Ooo. I should als say my buddy in Missouri said I should reserved the stompa in game 2. Avoid those deep strikers then come in guns a blazing. That woulda been smart... But that's not me.
That's it...
@koooaei: but but the damage output of those shootas is sooooo high! I know though. That's gonna be the new list. With VSG. That'll be nearly 100pts. Ok ok ok. You're right.
But PKs are $$$$ and a good player wil kite the tide.
I'd probably go with more pk nobz and tankbustas instead of a kff mek. Cause the stompa allready has d6 void shields that can regenerate, so, not all that easy to kill. Furthermore, you have vsg. So, i think that kff mek is a waste here.
Whereas pk nobz in a tide are vital. Tide's prone to getting stopped by something sturdy. Basically, a Knight comes in and your 900+ points of stuff is stuck with <400 pts of the enemy for quite some time.
@kooaei: Powershields dont regen. D6... thats it. The kff on a bike gives the tank busta trukks and the stompa 5++ and is completely out of LOS behind the stompa.
doktor_g wrote: @kooaei: Powershields dont regen. D6... thats it. The kff on a bike gives the tank busta trukks and the stompa 5++ and is completely out of LOS behind the stompa.
Oh, you're right. Mistook them for void shields. Anywayz, the protection is still pretty good. And you undoubtfully need more power klaws in a tide.
What if you simply go with a cad and squads of boyz? They'll all get fearless when near a stompa. This way you can afford like 3-4 smaller squads with pk nobz that are more versatile, are still fearless and will leave you with free points for mek if you want to. Also, you could make them shootas which is going to be way more effective than a shoota tide.
And you won't waste points on mandatory grots. Although, they're admittedly good investment with fearless.
All in all, smaller squads have both advantages and drawbacks. Advantages are much more versatility, obsec and overall cheapness. Disadvantages are no eternal WAAAGH! (or no WAAAGH! at all if you go without a warboss) and less protection cause you can't provide mass fnp anymore.
so heres an idea i have for what i think is a competive list focused around the theme of madmax (alot of trukks,wagons, buggies but no bikes). the stompa itself will be designed to even be a sort of battlewagon stompa hybrid...ill make it work somehow.
the squad of 9 tankbustas will be in a gunwagon with the warboss (he will provide waaaghs and 2 strtegic warlord traits), the other gunwagons will have the flashgitz (all the gunwagons will park midfield for maximin dakka potential). the warbuggies will be for good measure on quick object and otherwise harasment units. the trukk tankbustas will do what they do best by hitting anything with an engine in it. the stompa with bigmek will have a grot squad in it (for obsec) while the other grot squad will use the spare trukk just to keep up with the stompa and act as a charge shield when needed.
this lists mileage will vary depending on what i face but my hope is it does well with objectives and anti tank.
geargutz wrote: so heres an idea i have for what i think is a competive list focused around the theme of madmax (alot of trukks,wagons, buggies but no bikes). the stompa itself will be designed to even be a sort of battlewagon stompa hybrid...ill make it work somehow.
I like your general approach. I have a few suggestions in additions to Koooaei's Note:
Don't do this. Use a CAD. You can run a secondary detachment with Ghaz, but I wouldn't. Unlike other armies who lose Objective secured, but gain a big bonus from supplemental detachments, Orks, lose OS, and gain a giant disadvantage with changes to Mob rule. The detachment is really bad, and only useful for getting the Big Boss Pole, or the MFF. You can basically do everything you want to do in one or 2 CADs.
If they come from a CAD and Ride in the Stompa, suddenly the Stompa is OS. Think about that for a second. I imagine you are playing in ITC. The world can change when you get a super scoring deathstar.
This is a really good unit. I like to stick 2 Bomb Squigs in for situations. On the Other Hand the Stompa is delivering a Ton of Anti-vehicle firepower, so you might not need the bomb squigs.
This unit sticks out as something that doesn't fit in the rest of the list. You said you were sticking them in a Gunwagon, but taking a Trukk with them. Is that For Gretchin? If you drop a few of these, you would have room for a KFF, which probably makes sense for you, or the ability to bring something that is anti-infantry.
I prefer Deff Koptas because they are much more versatile, but this is fine. There isn't really a reason to run 5 of them in a squadron. 5 Squadrons of 1 are usually going to be better than 1 Squadron of 5.
I would put Rams on these. If you manipulate your FOC you can get them out of the squadron.
geargutz wrote: Buzzgob (100) bigmekstompa (300) arm replacement defkanon (50)
The Stompa can hold 20 models (in multiple units) and has 10 fire points. That part of it aren't being used to their fullest.
You've got an absurd amount of anti-tank. Possibly too much, because it makes you more reliant on your stompa for Anti-Infantry. If your meta is nothing but battle Company, this list will make mincemeat of them, but if your meta has certain other lists, you might be in trouble. Let me offer this mildly tweaked version that uses generally the same models:
Spoiler:
Cad #1: Big Mek (Rokkit, da thinkin kap)
5 Tankbustas (1 BS) in a Trukk (Ram) 5 Tankbustas (1 BS) in a Trukk (Ram) 5 Tankbustas (2 BS) in a Trukk (Ram)
You use your Transports as a gametime adjustment for your army. The Lootas never ride in their Trukk, that is for a unit of Gretchin. Sometimes the Lootas ride the Stompa. Sometimes they ride a Gunwagon, sometimes they just deploy. The Burnas usually ride the Stompa, but sometimes they outflank or infiltrate in their trukk. Sometimes they ride a Gunwagon. Usually Gretchin ride their trukk. Usually 1 Squad of Gretchin ride the Stompa that makes it OS. Your Flash Gitz normally ride the Gunwagons, but sometimes they Ride the Stompa. Usually the Big Mek's Ride the Stompa.
Always roll your warlord traits before deciding what rides in each vehicle. If you get stealth in ruins it makes sense to deploy the Lootas in ruins. If you get Infiltrate, you might want to infiltrate you Stompa, and bring your Burnas in from outflank. Remember if you want to put gertchin in a Trukk they must start out in reserves.
The Burnas and Lootas both give you an element of anti-infantry that might help a bit, and by dividing up the Warbuggies, you make it quite a bit harder for your opponent to hunt them. Its a list that would give most ITC armies troubles.
@tag8833: where do you get Stompas have 10 firepoints? I thought they only had 5.
@kooaei: MSU gathered around the stompa defeats the purpose of MSU. I mean if they have to stay all clumped up, why not 1 big unit. Side question: is there a way I can give the tide move through cover?
@thread: IN MY OPINION, trukks could quite possibly be the worst idea for orks. THE WORST.
-In my experience, they only shine when my opponent isn't very good.
-first a trukk will either explode or get wrecked generally if any thing attacks it especially at the effective range of tank bustas. --If it explodes, half the boys are dead from the explosion. Then another pinning test forces further losses. Oops your tiny squad has lost more than 25% in a shooting phase. More dead. Maybe I'm "doing it wrong"
doktor_g wrote: @tag8833: where do you get Stompas have 10 firepoints? I thought they only had 5.
Normal Stompa is 5. The Big Mek Stompa is 10.
doktor_g wrote: @thread: IN MY OPINION, trukks could quite possibly be the worst idea for orks. THE WORST.
-In my experience, they only shine when my opponent isn't very good.
-first a trukk will either explode or get wrecked generally if any thing attacks it especially at the effective range of tank bustas. --If it explodes, half the boys are dead from the explosion. Then another pinning test forces further losses. Oops your tiny squad has lost more than 25% in a shooting phase. More dead. Maybe I'm "doing it wrong"
That's why you limit what you put in trukks, and you get those things out of Trukks as soon as reasonable. Never put something in a Trukk that you care about. MANZ missile is an ideal usage of Trukks. The Trukk needs to live for just 1 turn. I've also come to love 5 Tankbustas in a Trukk. It is so cheap, and yet so threatening. Sure, any opponent can kill a trukk, but if you have enough trukks it doesn't matter, and if the unit inside is disposable enough then the opponent has trouble with target priority and, and often won't allocate enough firepower to a given trukk to actually kill it.
@tag:
1. Where is that rule about BM stompa (thanks for pointing it out)
2. Tell me what you do in the movement phase turn 1 if you go first with TB trukk, then the shooting and assault phases?
Actually your answer to Q2 doesnt matter. If you ant to get them out, you can only move 6". Disembark another 6". That means in most games youre at midfield. Then they are standing there in Tshirts, only having to take 2 wounds until mobrule sets in. Just... yuck. They are cheap though!
Anyone tried any of the kill tanks? Managed to fit on full of meks in my 3k apoc list and was wondering if they are worthwhile investments before I commit to buying/converting
Frozocrone wrote: Anyone tried any of the kill tanks? Managed to fit on full of meks in my 3k apoc list and was wondering if they are worthwhile investments before I commit to buying/converting
Currently of the three the Kill Burstas are the most versatile. Between the belly gun and the bursta gun you either get a huge AoE anti-heavy infantry gun or our only strength D blast weapon that doesn't come from rolling double 6's from a SAG. Both give us guns that address issues at range which our codex lacks, so regardless of most Ork lists they fit in pretty damn well since they almost always have a good target.
Kill Blastas are fairly meh, since we don't exactly need more S6 shooting in our army given that we have lootas but it does provide a stable and sturdy firing platform at a reasonable (if random) rate of fire. It does have access to grot gunners to get up to BS3 to make the shots more reliable but generally speaking its underwhelming.
Then there's the cheaper Kill Krusha. It's in a weird spot since it really doesn't feel like a super-heavy, just an up-gunned and armoured looted wagon. It has a range of profiles for its main gun but you'll only ever be using the battlecannon profile or the ignores cover/template ones. I'd rank it higher than the Kill Blasta since it has more utility and its cheaper but for the most part its average at best.
Also keep in mind they all do have a secondary role as assault transports so they're like killier shootier battlewagons in many senses.
doktor_g wrote: @tag:
1. Where is that rule about BM stompa (thanks for pointing it out)
Its in the 6th edition GW: Apoc book. Not IA: Apoc. It is back from the bad old days where GW and Forgeworld were naming dozens of books "Apocalypse", and it was nearly impossible to keep them all straight. If you google it, you will find the rules pretty easy.
doktor_g wrote: 2. Tell me what you do in the movement phase turn 1 if you go first with TB trukk, then the shooting and assault phases?
You misunderstood me. Unless there is a vehicle to assault, or an objective that needs clearing, 5 tankbustas stay inside their trukk until it blows. I'm just saying that when it blows and 1/2 of them die, it isn't that big of a loss.
MANZ usually stay in their trukk until it blows as well, but not always. As soon as they can assault they hop out, but the MANZ trukk almost always dies on turn 1.
I took it from your post that you were trying to run Trukks full of boyz. This is how that generally goes. Turn 1, trukk moves 12" then Flat Outs 12". Turn 2, any trukks that didn't blow up disembark their passengers, and the boyz get into assault. So you are exposed to opponent shooting for 1 or 2 turns at most.
If you are having trouble making Trukks work, it is usually 1 of 3 things.
1) You are putting the wrong thing in Trukks (Burnas, Lootas, Flash Gitz, upgraded boyz, anything expensive that isn't a meganob)
2) You aren't flatting out on turn 1. (Trukks aren't really protection, they are a mobility aid)
3) You don't have enough trukks. They die. The boyz inside die. The key is to build a list that can take those losses. Lots of redundancy.
Another tid bit on Trukks. If you have a Void Shield Generator, it goes a long ways to keeping your trukks safe from Alpha Striking.
@kooaei: MSU gathered around the stompa defeats the purpose of MSU. I mean if they have to stay all clumped up, why not 1 big unit. Side question: is there a way I can give the tide move through cover?
The purpose is that MSU is way more versatile and can be taken in fewer numbers. Tide without enough klaws is very vulnerable to getting tarpitted.
koooaei wrote: Ghaz supplement warboss can't take a cap. Warboss's base cost is 60 pts. What's the point of a big mek?
forgot the cost of warboss. why cant a ghaz detach warboss not take the kap? couldnt a codex orks detachment bigmek take a mega force field? my understanding was that the detachment didnt matter as much as not haveing different relics from books in the same detachment...but if im wrong ill just make a cad (might go for both cad and ghaz detach in the end).
Don't do this. Use a CAD. You can run a secondary detachment with Ghaz, but I wouldn't. Unlike other armies who lose Objective secured, but gain a big bonus from supplemental detachments, Orks, lose OS, and gain a giant disadvantage with changes to Mob rule. The detachment is really bad, and only useful for getting the Big Boss Pole, or the MFF. You can basically do everything you want to do in one or 2 CADs.
i wanted the ghaz detach becasue its 5 elite slots...but i guess i will just go for doublecad. the only probalem with that is that itc doesnt allow 2 of the same formation or detach, so if i do 2 detachments then what would be a better option besides a ghaz detach (codex orks detach requires one aditional troop so the tax is greater) (besides, ive run ghaz detach before, msu dont bother so much with the penalty to mob rule beacsue i just dont care at that point, they run then they run, it was a small cheap unit to begin with).
This unit sticks out as something that doesn't fit in the rest of the list. You said you were sticking them in a Gunwagon, but taking a Trukk with them. Is that For Gretchin? If you drop a few of these, you would have room for a KFF, which probably makes sense for you, or the ability to bring something that is anti-infantry.
the trukk was for grots, the bustas would ride in the gunwag as a more protected unit, so i could spend more on the squad (not a worried about that trasnport popping before a trukk.
You use your Transports as a gametime adjustment for your army. The Lootas never ride in their Trukk, that is for a unit of Gretchin. Sometimes the Lootas ride the Stompa. Sometimes they ride a Gunwagon, sometimes they just deploy. The Burnas usually ride the Stompa, but sometimes they outflank or infiltrate in their trukk. Sometimes they ride a Gunwagon. Usually Gretchin ride their trukk. Usually 1 Squad of Gretchin ride the Stompa that makes it OS. Your Flash Gitz normally ride the Gunwagons, but sometimes they Ride the Stompa. Usually the Big Mek's Ride the Stompa.
Always roll your warlord traits before deciding what rides in each vehicle. If you get stealth in ruins it makes sense to deploy the Lootas in ruins. If you get Infiltrate, you might want to infiltrate you Stompa, and bring your Burnas in from outflank. Remember if you want to put gertchin in a Trukk they must start out in reserves.
The Burnas and Lootas both give you an element of anti-infantry that might help a bit, and by dividing up the Warbuggies, you make it quite a bit harder for your opponent to hunt them. Its a list that would give most ITC armies troubles.
now that imthinking of doing a double detach i will have the ability to split the gunwagons into seperate units, as well as the warbuggies...would it be better to give them tl bigshootas for anti infantry, or invest in some skorchabugs. while defkoptas are generaly better then warbuggies, i realy want to do a warbuggy type unit to realy sell the madmax theme.
i need a warboss with da thinkin kap. he calls the waaagh, a waaagh will help near end game when units are away from trukks and i need those extra inches.
burna boyz are somthing i havent played with much, and i hear some good comments about them but a lot of negative stuff about them as well.
ive never heard poeple say to use lootas as anti infantry, but now that i think about it they are pretty versitle for damage. ill think about possibly implimenting them in place of some tankbustas (maybe use them in the gunwagon transport with the warboss?.
ill need playtesting, but unfortunately my local community just lost the majority of our dedicated players.
Warbuggies are not directly better or worse than koptas. If you go in squads of 1, koptas are better cause they're better on a per model basis. But if you go in larger squads and intend to just shoot, buggies are better cause they don't have LD.
Koptas are more versatile, mobile and somewhat more tough and can't get one-shotted generally. Can scout, can eat overwatch and tie up stuff that's bad in mellee. They could be a great retinue for a biker boss. Buggies don't have ld problems and can perform as not-so-bad skorcha platforms apart from usual bigshootas and rokkits.
What are your thoughts on the 1500 pt list below: HQ Painboy Warboss in mega armour, lucky stikk Troops Gretchin 3x20 shoota boys nob PKBP FA 3xDeffkopta LOW Mek Boss Buzzgob stompa, deff kannon, deff kannon Fort Void shield generator +2 VS
Decent fearless boys footprint covered by void shields. obsec Stompa covered by VS. Deffkoptas for objective fly around, scouting/outflanking. Warboss unit tanks wounds if needed moving forward
Meks are for dying in challenges instead of your more important characters. Fixing stuff is rarely ever useful. But in this case it might even come into play! Challenges first, though.
koooaei wrote: Ghaz supplement warboss can't take a cap. Warboss's base cost is 60 pts. What's the point of a big mek?
forgot the cost of warboss. why cant a ghaz detach warboss not take the kap? couldnt a codex orks detachment bigmek take a mega force field? my understanding was that the detachment didnt matter as much as not haveing different relics from books in the same detachment...but if im wrong ill just make a cad (might go for both cad and ghaz detach in the end).
Its in the rules for the detachment. They have access to the Ghazgul relics instead of the normal Ork Codex ones.
Don't do this. Use a CAD. You can run a secondary detachment with Ghaz, but I wouldn't. Unlike other armies who lose Objective secured, but gain a big bonus from supplemental detachments, Orks, lose OS, and gain a giant disadvantage with changes to Mob rule. The detachment is really bad, and only useful for getting the Big Boss Pole, or the MFF. You can basically do everything you want to do in one or 2 CADs.
i wanted the ghaz detach becasue its 5 elite slots...but i guess i will just go for doublecad. the only probalem with that is that itc doesnt allow 2 of the same formation or detach, so if i do 2 detachments then what would be a better option besides a ghaz detach (codex orks detach requires one aditional troop so the tax is greater) (besides, ive run ghaz detach before, msu dont bother so much with the penalty to mob rule beacsue i just dont care at that point, they run then they run, it was a small cheap unit to begin with).
ITC allows doubling a single detachment. That includes double CAD. While MSU is less effected by the Mob Rule changes, there is no reason to put a completely voluntary nerf on your army.
You use your Transports as a gametime adjustment for your army. The Lootas never ride in their Trukk, that is for a unit of Gretchin. Sometimes the Lootas ride the Stompa. Sometimes they ride a Gunwagon, sometimes they just deploy. The Burnas usually ride the Stompa, but sometimes they outflank or infiltrate in their trukk. Sometimes they ride a Gunwagon. Usually Gretchin ride their trukk. Usually 1 Squad of Gretchin ride the Stompa that makes it OS. Your Flash Gitz normally ride the Gunwagons, but sometimes they Ride the Stompa. Usually the Big Mek's Ride the Stompa.
Always roll your warlord traits before deciding what rides in each vehicle. If you get stealth in ruins it makes sense to deploy the Lootas in ruins. If you get Infiltrate, you might want to infiltrate you Stompa, and bring your Burnas in from outflank. Remember if you want to put gertchin in a Trukk they must start out in reserves.
The Burnas and Lootas both give you an element of anti-infantry that might help a bit, and by dividing up the Warbuggies, you make it quite a bit harder for your opponent to hunt them. Its a list that would give most ITC armies troubles.
now that imthinking of doing a double detach i will have the ability to split the gunwagons into seperate units, as well as the warbuggies...would it be better to give them tl bigshootas for anti infantry, or invest in some skorchabugs. while defkoptas are generaly better then warbuggies, i realy want to do a warbuggy type unit to realy sell the madmax theme.
Generally Rokkits are the best on warbuggies. Skorchas can be Ok but are more institutional. Big Shootas are fine, but not as versatile as Rokkits.
geargutz wrote: i need a warboss with da thinkin kap. he calls the waaagh, a waaagh will help near end game when units are away from trukks and i need those extra inches.
Eh. The only units that is likely make use of it much are the Tankbustas. Those are also the units most likely to die. Flash Gitz and Burnas can use it, but generally they are a shootier unit, and wouldn't want to. I don't think it is worth it, but up to you.
geargutz wrote: burna boyz are somthing i havent played with much, and i hear some good comments about them but a lot of negative stuff about them as well.
The Reason Burnas aren't good is because Orks Lack survivable transports. A Spompa is a survivable transport. They are the least optimized part of the list. Honestly I haven't done enough playtesting with Burnas in a Stompa to be too adamant about them. I've put them in Gunwagons from time to time, and they've performed OK.
koooaei wrote: Warbuggies are not directly better or worse than koptas. If you go in squads of 1, koptas are better cause they're better on a per model basis. But if you go in larger squads and intend to just shoot, buggies are better cause they don't have LD.
For my Flex / speed units like Deff Koptas and warbuggies, I prefer to have the versatility to assault in situations either to eat overwatch or tarpit. It comes up big against Tau. Ever Seen an anchored stormsurge tarpit by a single deffkopta? It also helps vs Eldar,
koooaei wrote: Warbuggies are not directly better or worse than koptas. If you go in squads of 1, koptas are better cause they're better on a per model basis. But if you go in larger squads and intend to just shoot, buggies are better cause they don't have LD.
Koptas are more versatile, mobile and somewhat more tough and can't get one-shotted generally. Can scout, can eat overwatch and tie up stuff that's bad in mellee. They could be a great retinue for a biker boss. Buggies don't have ld problems and can perform as not-so-bad skorcha platforms apart from usual bigshootas and rokkits.
koooaei wrote: Warbuggies are not directly better or worse than koptas. If you go in squads of 1, koptas are better cause they're better on a per model basis. But if you go in larger squads and intend to just shoot, buggies are better cause they don't have LD.
Koptas are more versatile, mobile and somewhat more tough and can't get one-shotted generally. Can scout, can eat overwatch and tie up stuff that's bad in mellee. They could be a great retinue for a biker boss. Buggies don't have ld problems and can perform as not-so-bad skorcha platforms apart from usual bigshootas and rokkits.
Koptas get bombs. Love it.
The bigbomms that koptas get really aren't much of a selling point though. They unnecessarily inflate the cost of the unit and being one shot weapons are lacklustre for their stats. A S4 AP5 large blast isn't exactly something an Ork army needs, especially not for a price that's half the cost of the deffkopta itself.
the flashgitz get the gunwagons (my hqs will most likely ride in those). the grots trukks will actualy be dts from the flashgitz. i hvae thought of getting an adl with comms so i can more reliably outflank warbuggies. everything starts out in the voidshield to prevent inevitable 1st turn shooting.
i have one question though. are there measurements for the void shield generator? i want to kustom make my own, but im afraid of makeing it too big and looking like im building to advantage.
Well the more things a unit can do well, the less things you have to have other parts do. So there is some virtue to be found in that statement. But as in all things orks, it depends so much on the rest of your list. So it's not the second coming. but its pretty awesome. They dont even have to fire. Kinda like Dark eldar Jetbikes.
I've been off line for a while. Mainly be working on a hobby stuff and designing a new list for the next year of events. For 1850 events, I'm thinking about using the Blitz brigade formation. Scouting Battle wagons are cool, but what is awesome is the ability to Thunder blitz with them. No we are talking some serious pain. Oh you think you can hide from my guns by being invisible, nope. Thunder blitz does not care. Oh fearless, nope. Thunder blitz does not care. So here is my list as of right now:
5 Battle Wagons with 2 big shootas and deff rollas
HQ Warboss in Mega armor and lucky stick
Pain boy
Elite
Mega nobz
Burnas
Troops
3x 20 boyz with Nob BP and PK.
Most likely going to put Burna's in a wagon and out flank them.
Jancoran wrote: Well the more things a unit can do well, the less things you have to have other parts do. So there is some virtue to be found in that statement. But as in all things orks, it depends so much on the rest of your list. So it's not the second coming. but its pretty awesome. They dont even have to fire. Kinda like Dark eldar Jetbikes.
Right, but a S4 AP5 blast is not doing anti-infantry well. Being one shot and expensive while also putting yourself into harm's way (since you have to do during the movement phase, moving 12" over an enemy unit means its probably going to get assaulted next turn which is typically something you don't want for a deffkopta) doesn't sound like a good proposition. Lobbas do the job of barrage blasts far better and cheaper (with stronger strength no less and added possibilities of re-rolls with ammo runts). In 40K, generalist units are typically meh, specialized units end up being more cost-efficient since doing a specific role great is better than doing multiple roles mediocrely.
When have you seriously been scared of a one shot blast template with a bolter profile with no ignores cover? I know I've never been.
You can if you reserve them, I think, and that is generally what you want to do with a trukk full of gretchin.
You can? That's a new one to me. Is there something in the 40k rules about swapping units starting inside a dedicated transport?
In the past couple days I've been looking at the transports section a lot for other reasons, and while I wasn't specifically looking for this issue as far as the rules say, it seems the only way a unit can get on the table in a DT for any reason is of they're the unit that paid for it. You could take trukks as FA choices and start gretchin in there, have to find room though. That's my understanding of it, anyway.
Glitcha wrote: I've been off line for a while. Mainly be working on a hobby stuff and designing a new list for the next year of events. For 1850 events, I'm thinking about using the Blitz brigade formation. Scouting Battle wagons are cool, but what is awesome is the ability to Thunder blitz with them. No we are talking some serious pain. Oh you think you can hide from my guns by being invisible, nope. Thunder blitz does not care. Oh fearless, nope. Thunder blitz does not care. So here is my list as of right now:
5 Battle Wagons with 2 big shootas and deff rollas
HQ Warboss in Mega armor and lucky stick
Pain boy
Elite
Mega nobz
Burnas
Troops
3x 20 boyz with Nob BP and PK.
Most likely going to put Burna's in a wagon and out flank them.
Where did you hear the Battlewagon's gain the ability to Thunderblitz? It would be beyond fantastic, but sadly it isn't so! Something also worth noting is the Burna Boyz can't utilise Outflank from the wagons unless you find another way to give the Burna unit themselves Outflank, such as the Master of Ambush warlord trait.
This leads me to be sad that Snikrot can only join units of Kommandos, he would have some interesting utility if we could put him in any unit we wanted. Woe!
If deffrollas gave an ability to thunder blitz for 10 pts, they'd see some use. But as is, they're pretty worthless. And you have to buy rams for blitz brigade anywayz
Thorned_Lily wrote: In the past couple days I've been looking at the transports section a lot for other reasons, and while I wasn't specifically looking for this issue as far as the rules say, it seems the only way a unit can get on the table in a DT for any reason is of they're the unit that paid for it. You could take trukks as FA choices and start gretchin in there, have to find room though. That's my understanding of it, anyway.
ETA: I was wrong. Thorned_Lily was correct. You can't reserve a unit inside another unit's dedicated transport.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
xlDuke wrote: Something also worth noting is the Burna Boyz can't utilise Outflank from the wagons unless you find another way to give the Burna unit themselves Outflank, such as the Master of Ambush warlord trait.
If you have outflank on a transport, and you embark a unit on it, the unit comes in together and can use outflank. Though I'd love to use your line of reasoning to defeat Deep Striking D Scythes, and Centurions in Drop Pods and such.
Deep strike has a section explaining that vehicles with deep strike can do so even if the unit embarked on it doesn't also have the rule, but sadly Outflank doesn't have a section like that and only explains how units with Outflank confer it to their own dedicates transports. That's how I understand it anyway, but I've been wrong before
What's the best way to spam out Weirdboyz in an 1850 pt list?
Here's what I'm thinking...
-Buzzgob Mek Stompa (stuffed with goodies?) -Bunch of Mek Gunz -maybe behind ADL or Bastion -then, as much weirdboyz as you can squeeze in. -plus whatever else is required for detachment
Point of that is to anchor down a decent gunline to allow the weird boyz to summon daemons every turn.
My interest is really, I think it'd be cool to use actual ork/goblin models as the "summoned deamons" but paint them in their chaos colors.
...like:
The normal orks are painted greenskin colors... duh.
Then, the summoned pink horrors are predominately "pink" orks... ... summoned plague bearers are predominately "greenish-black"... like moldy, black/green spores colors... ... summoned bloodletters are "red" orks... ... summoned fleshhounds are the squigs (the big fantasy ones)... ... and so forth.
The idea is to reinforce the concept that the warp takes on the characteristics of the summoner.
Has anyone had successes in using weirdboyz for daemon summonings? I kinda see issues that the wierdboyz need to be close to the center of the board, instead of the backline... as summon daemons must be placed within 12" of the caster...
xlDuke wrote: Deep strike has a section explaining that vehicles with deep strike can do so even if the unit embarked on it doesn't also have the rule, but sadly Outflank doesn't have a section like that and only explains how units with Outflank confer it to their own dedicates transports. That's how I understand it anyway, but I've been wrong before
Here is how I see it:
You are given permission to embark a unit onto a transport in reserves (Combined Reserves, BRB Page 135). There is no restriction on how a transport with a unit embarked arrives. The only explicit part of Outflank dealing with Transports is about a unit conferring outflank to its dedicated transport.
whembly wrote: What's the best way to spam out Weirdboyz in an 1850 pt list?
Here's what I'm thinking...
-Buzzgob Mek Stompa (stuffed with goodies?)
-Bunch of Mek Gunz
-maybe behind ADL or Bastion
-then, as much weirdboyz as you can squeeze in.
-plus whatever else is required for detachment
Point of that is to anchor down a decent gunline to allow the weird boyz to summon daemons every turn.
My interest is really, I think it'd be cool to use actual ork/goblin models as the "summoned deamons" but paint them in their chaos colors.
...like:
The normal orks are painted greenskin colors... duh.
Then, the summoned pink horrors are predominately "pink" orks...
... summoned plague bearers are predominately "greenish-black"... like moldy, black/green spores colors...
... summoned bloodletters are "red" orks...
... summoned fleshhounds are the squigs (the big fantasy ones)...
... and so forth.
The idea is to reinforce the concept that the warp takes on the characteristics of the summoner.
Has anyone had successes in using weirdboyz for daemon summonings? I kinda see issues that the wierdboyz need to be close to the center of the board, instead of the backline... as summon daemons must be placed within 12" of the caster...
Cool idea - for the red bloodletter orks you should use the fantasy savage ork models
Automatically Appended Next Post: On another note just read this guys tournement battle report where he ran bullyboyz, zadsnark (sp?), tankbustas, VSD, etc and kicked some eldar and tau but
Figured this was a good place to link it - looks like an awesome list!
where do i find the specific rules about bringing a fw dreddmob army? i have both the imperial armour book and the update list, as far as i can tell i havent found any base requirments for makeing a dreddmob. im looking to make a dreddmob focused around troop deffdreds, could i just asemble a cad and claim it is dreddmob and have deffdredds as my troops?
Oh, one thing i've noticed is that Buzzgob has WAAAGH! And from this line: "...Buzzgob is considered to be on board the
Stompa" - we can tell that you get WAAAGH if he's your warlord. So, you don't need a warboss to run+charge. You get a scoring stompa that's also a warboss. Not bad, eh?
And from wording, you could probably even join him to some other unit and than escape a stompa. But it's far fetched.
So if I take ammo runts with my Mek guns, and upgrade to KMKs, can I re-roll the 1 on gets hot tests? And does doing that count as a reroll to hit, or would I keep my ammo runt? It looks to me like taking runts + KMKs is an awesome combo.
tetrisphreak wrote: So if I take ammo runts with my Mek guns, and upgrade to KMKs, can I re-roll the 1 on gets hot tests? And does doing that count as a reroll to hit, or would I keep my ammo runt? It looks to me like taking runts + KMKs is an awesome combo.
Yes. No.
If you roll a gets hot, you can reroll it, and that gun can also reroll its scatter that turn, but it does consume the ammo runt.
tetrisphreak wrote: So if I take ammo runts with my Mek guns, and upgrade to KMKs, can I re-roll the 1 on gets hot tests? And does doing that count as a reroll to hit, or would I keep my ammo runt? It looks to me like taking runts + KMKs is an awesome combo.
Yes. No.
If you roll a gets hot, you can reroll it, and that gun can also reroll its scatter that turn, but it does consume the ammo runt.
OK! that's the way i saw it too - so by never using the ammo runt (unless it's a REALLY critical turn and you need dead-on accuracy) the KMK's will have a 1/36 chance of getting hot all game. That's amazing for a 3 pt upgrade.
tetrisphreak wrote: So if I take ammo runts with my Mek guns, and upgrade to KMKs, can I re-roll the 1 on gets hot tests? And does doing that count as a reroll to hit, or would I keep my ammo runt? It looks to me like taking runts + KMKs is an awesome combo.
Yes. No.
If you roll a gets hot, you can reroll it, and that gun can also reroll its scatter that turn, but it does consume the ammo runt.
OK! that's the way i saw it too - so by never using the ammo runt (unless it's a REALLY critical turn and you need dead-on accuracy) the KMK's will have a 1/36 chance of getting hot all game. That's amazing for a 3 pt upgrade.
Ammo runts are a must for ork artillery. Annd especially for guns that get hot. Don't leave home without them cause hen artillery overheats, it kills grots without armor saves. A couple bad rolls and you got to pass ld5.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and about Buggzob and his WAAAGH! I'm afraid it's not gona be a fair move to assume he can WAAAGH! Cause the rules were written for 5-th ediion when WAAAGH used to be just an allowance to get fleet which used to allow run+charge. So, basically what 'ere We Go is now.
This doesn't answer my question.
I already had the update. As far as I can tell it says nothing about requirements for dreddmob? Maybe I'm just not seeing it. Are there specific pages to read?
Frozocrone wrote: No, you can build it from a CAD, Ork Horde or Great Waaagh! Detachment. Or the supplements formation.
Thx. I thought there was something specific to have a dreddmob. So if I wanted to use the profiles for deffdredds and kills kanz do I use the points cost from the dreddmob update (the update has the old point values for those models)?
Frozocrone wrote: No, you can build it from a CAD, Ork Horde or Great Waaagh! Detachment. Or the supplements formation.
Thx. I thought there was something specific to have a dreddmob. So if I wanted to use the profiles for deffdredds and kills kanz do I use the points cost from the dreddmob update (the update has the old point values for those models)?
Yes. If you use the profiles from the update, you also use the points from the update.
How does that work with upgrades. Does a 75 point deffdredd already have 2 bigshootas? Does a 35 point kills Kan already have a bigshoota? If I give a dreddmob kill Kan a grotzooka does it cost 5pts like from the codex orks? Or is it going off the profiles from the IA book for upgrades?
geargutz wrote: How does that work with upgrades. Does a 75 point deffdredd already have 2 bigshootas? Does a 35 point kills Kan already have a bigshoota? If I give a dreddmob kill Kan a grotzooka does it cost 5pts like from the codex orks? Or is it going off the profiles from the IA book for upgrades?
If the profile is available in the IA Dread Mob PDF, and you want to run a Dread Mob Detachment (Can be a CAD, Allied Detachment, Great WAAAGH, or Ork Horde), then you use that profile. If the profile says "See Codex: Orks" or something similar than you use the profile from that book instead. The only exception to this is cases where the reference has been updated. For instance, the Dakkajet profile is in the Ork Codex, and that one replaces the one from White Dwarf so you use that one instead.
Ok. Thx. That clears things up. a FW dreddmob can take deffdredds with obsec if in a CAD. While in a ghaz detach there is a 5up chance for deffdredd squads to get deepstrike.
One question still...if I run dreddmob, can I take units not included in a dreddmob, like a normal squad of Boyz or grots?
geargutz wrote: Ok. Thx. That clears things up. a FW dreddmob can take deffdredds with obsec if in a CAD. While in a ghaz detach there is a 5up chance for deffdredd squads to get deepstrike.
One question still...if I run dreddmob, can I take units not included in a dreddmob, like a normal squad of Boyz or grots?
That is actually a really complicated question when it comes to RAW. I think it is the single most problematic question in the 7th edition rulebook, and one of the reasons 40K is completely unplayable without some sort of FAQ, or House Ruling.
That being said, everyone I know has house ruled it the same way. If taking a forgeworld army list (or a supplemental army list like Farsight or Sentinels of Terra), then you are limited to entries that appear inside those army lists. So in this case, no, they wouldn't allow you to include units from the Ork codex that don't appear in the Forgeworld PDF. Also note that despite Zhardsnark appearing in the PDF he is not allowed in a Dread Mob Detachment.
Deployment: Dawn of War Mission: ITC Emperors will.
The game: I've played this list before. I've actually been tabled by it at past events. But this was ITC mission Emperor's will, and I had a clear advantage. He wasn't all that mobile, and I had tons of MSU to outscore him on Maelstrom, so I didn't need to play that aggressively. Also, I got master of ambush, so I outflanked 3 Squads of Tankbustas, and all of my Deffkoptas. He deployed his VSG, Flash Gits and both Tankbusta wagons on the left flank, and his MANZ and a squad of Gretchin on the right flank. I deployed my wagon, Lobbas, and Lootas, one trukk that I could hide out of LOS and one squad of gretchin that was planning to walk up the right flank and hold it once I cleared the MANZ.
Turn 1, he took out some lootas, a lobba, and move forward aggressively with his manz. I kill his gretchin that were out of the Void shield, and failed to take down any void shields, but his scout plus agressive movement of the Manz wagon gave me a 6" charge with some tankbustas, so they charged and killed it. I also advanced my wagons fairly aggressively. He responded by pouring all of his fire power into the wagon nearest his VSG, but AV 14 stands up pretty well. His MANZ assaulted and killed my other wagon which was fine.
My reserves all come in, and I send them at the VSG. I drop it, and put 3 hull points on a Wagon full of Flash Gitz. The squad that came out of the Wagon assaulted and Kill the Manz after the Gretchin soften them up. I now control the right flank and the middle of the table. He is reduced to a gunline around the VSG. I'm winning on Maelstrom Easily. He manages to kill my Wagon in Shooting, and shoots at, and then assaults the squad inside with Flashgitz and Tankbustas. I challenge with my Warboss, and the Flash gitz kill the entire squad, and put 2 wounds on my warboss at I3. I swing back, and kill 3 flash Gitz, and then mob rule myself to stay locked. A
t this point I manage to kill all the rest of his wagons, and his squad of tankbustas. He still has basically 2 full squad of Flash Gitz, but I control all the objectives and win 10-0. I failed to get Warlord. At the end of the game I had roughly 920 points left of my 1850 list, and he had a ton of points left too in all those flashgitz and badruk.
Resutls: 10-0 Win.
Round 2:
Spoiler:
Opponent: Eldar
His List: Aspect Host 5 Dark Reapers 5 Warp Spiders 5 Warp Spiders
CAD Bahara Mogan Ra
10 Rangers
10 Storm Guardians in a wave serpent (BL, SC) 10 Dire Avengers
7 Swooping Hawks.
Nightspinner 3 WarWalkers (BL, SC)
Deployment: Vanguard Mission: ITC Purge the Alien
The Game: It was Kill Points and I have 28 kill points in my list. Ugg. This is one of my most common opponents and he is a better player than his list might suggest. He took 1st turn. I reserved my Trukks, and deployed my Wagons, Lootas, Lobbas, and my Deffkoptas and Gretchin out of sight.
1st shot was War Walkers into my Wagon. Only 1 Hit. Pen. Explodes. Crap. 2nd Shot Mogan Ra into other Wagon. Hit, Rend, Roll a 6 on the rend, and then Immobalizes my other wagon. Crap. This is going south fast. He kills a bunch of boyz that came out of the wagon, and 2 lootas which fail leadership and run. Well, My plan to hide easy to kill stuff isn't going to work, because my tougher stuff can't put any pressure on him. So I send all of the Deffkoptas to midfield. 4 of the 6 take a wound from dangerous terrain. Ug. I also advance the unwagoned squad in such a way to give the Mek a chance to repair the immobilize resutl. My Lobbas kill a couple of Dark Reapers, and My non running Lootas put a hull point on a War walker. I fail to fix my broken wagon.
His turn, a unit of Warp spiders come in mishap and Die. YAY. Something goes right. He Brings in some Swooping Hawks and kills some gretchin, and the Dire avengers walk on. He kills all 6 Deff Koptas, and another loota. I bring on 2 of my 4 squads of Tankbustas. I declare my WAAAAGH. One squad of Tankbustas Kill a War Walker. The other Flats out to get behind his Dark Reapers. My Lobbas kill most of the Dire Avengers, and my Gretchin kill a couple more. My Gretchin are Heroes. I fail a 7" charge to kill the serpent with one squad of boyz, but make a 8" (10" after overwatch) charge into the Swooping Hawks and Bahara with the other.
On His turn, the last squad of Warp Spiders stays off. He unloads into my boyz at midfield. I am left with a 1 Wound Warboss (My Warlord), and a Mek. His War Walkers pop a trukk, and the tankbustas come out pinned. His Falcon Torrents another Trukk, and kills 2 Tankbustas inside. At this point, I'm up on Maelstrom, He's up on Kill points, and he has 1st blood. I need Warlord and Linebreaker, and to deny him those to win, and my Warlord is wounded, and stranded at midfield, so I'm playing for a Tie. My Tankbustas finish the War Walkers, and Shake the Falcon, and between them and the Lootas finish the Dark Reapers. My Boyz finish the Dire Avengers, and use the consolidation to head towards the rangers. My warboss and Mek Kill the Serpent. A good turn.
His other Warp Spiders come on and kill 1 squad of Lootas. They are getting him linebreaker. His Storm Guardian and Rangers shoot into my Warboss, and I roll a stunning amount of 4+ Saves to keep him alive, but lose the mek. Mogan Ra Kills some tankbustas. His Storm Guardians assault my Warboss. They do 3 Wounds. I make 2 saves, but lose my warlord. On My turn, I must kill those Warp Spiders, and his warlord. My 2 Last Lootas target his Warp spiders, and just as I had hoped, they do a jump to hide behind a building next to my Gretchin and Lobbas. This groups them up so that a small blast gets all 5. Boom. 4 Lobbas put 16 wounds on them. He only fails 4 saves, but one is his Exarch, so he could run. But because my Gretchin are Heroes, the 4 last Getchin shoot and kill the last warp spider. Things aren't going so hot on the other front. I shoot all my Tankbustas and Trukks into Mogan Ra, and he only fails one save. That isn't terrible, because I only made him take 7 or 8, but I needed him to die. My remaining Boyz Make a Charge into falcon and kill it dead.
At this point the game is called for time. I'm bleeding, but still in a pretty good position, and if the game went on there was a good chance I table him, but it didn't. So I lost.
Results: 6-5 Loss.
Round 3:
Spoiler:
I'm the highest Scoring player with a loss, so I play one of the undefeateds.
Ravenwing Support Squad: 3 Land Speeders (Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter) Dark Shroud (The one that gives Shrouded).
Some other Ravenwing formation. Samael 3 Black Knights 6 Black Knights (Grenade Launcher).
Deployment: Hammer and Anvil Mission: ITC Scouring
This is a super powerful list. I mean super powered list. So many shots. So much high bs, Rerollable 2+'s. It is the nightmare of most players. I get master of ambush, and Stealth in Ruins. It is a dream combo for this mission, and I have one super powerful piece of terrain that blocks line of sight to an entire trukk in my deployment, but has an upper floor for my Lobbas. My lootas have a building on the other side of my deployment that is pretty good too. I deploy my Wagons, Lobbas, Lootas, and Gretchin. 5 of my 6 Deff Koptas, and 1 Trukk. I outflank my other tankbustas, and 1 Deff Kopta. I give him 1st turn, knowing I had to outscore him to win.
He scouts forward, then moves forward aggressively with his Black Knights, and speeders. He gets 3 plasma guns on side armor of my Battlewagon, but because of Terrain, and night fighting I actually have a 2+ cover (That's never happened to me before. He shoots, Pens once. I fail my 2+. He Rolls a 6. Boom. Crap. Thankfully the terrain in friendly, and I can get a 3+ for most of my boys. 3+ and FNP means I actually have 4 Boyz, a Nob, a painboy, A warboss and a Mek left after he finished shooting at them. He also shoots at a squad of Lootas and makes me take enough saves that I fail 5 2+ saves. On my turn, because his most deadly unit is so close (3-4" charge), I disembark my unhurt wagon, switch the warboss over to the full squad. I Shoot my Lobbas where a few units of Scat Bikes are grouped up, and manage to put 10 Saves on one unit, and 6 on another. He fails one in each unit I Then shoot my Boyz at the Knights they plan to assault. A minor misplay happens here, that isn't really a big thing. He is on Ruins with shrouded for a 2+, so he doesn't Jink. I make him take 3 Saves, and he rolls 2 1's. He Rerolls them (Which he shouldn't be able to do, because it is reroll Jink, not cover saves, but his rerolls are snake eyes. So my 3-4" charge becomes a 7" Charge. Doh! My Lootas put some wounds on another squad of Scat Bikes. He make 3/4 leadership test on Scat bikes. Then I assault leading the Way with Deff Koptas to eat overwatch. I didn't realize these Dark Angels are like Tau, so the Squad kills the deffkopta, but there other squads supporting fire to kill some of my boyzs, and turn my 7" charge into a 10" charge. So now I'm panicked. Even with Rerolls I only get a 9", so my core units are left hanging in the wind. My other squad assaults and kills 3 Black Knights. It wasn't a terrible turn for me. I lost about 280 points, and did about 340 points of damage, but I am way, way out of position.
He gets a little over confident, and advances on me farther planning to charge the squad left hanging in the wind. He shoots a blistering amount of shots into them, and I make a stunning amount of saves and Look out sirs. It comes down to one Warboss looking out to the other warboss. I fail 2 Lucky Stikk rerolls, and by the end of shooting the unit has a giant hole in the middle, the nob is dead, and both warbosses are down to 1 wound. He charges, and rolls a 3" That puts him into base with only 1 model, my warboss, and more than 3" away from the rest of my Orks. I challenge with the warboss, the only one that he is in base with. He accepts with Sammy. Sammy kills the boss, and 1 more Ork. His other models tried to pile into my squad, but were too far away to make base. It was ruled that they couldn't swing even though most of them were within 2" of the ongoing challenge. I did transfer all of the HOW's to the squad, and the overflow from the challenge. So I got to Pile in 2nd, and swung. I killed all but one Bike, and Samual took a wound somehow (overwatch?). I won combat by a bunch. He tries to hit and run and fails.
On My turn, 2 of my Tankbustas came in. I was still hunting jetbikes, and used the trukks to tankshock him off an important objective. I put one wound on 4 different squads of Scat bikes, and he made all of the leadership tests. My Deffkoptas were keeping maelstrom even. We got ready for the combat. I challenge with my Painboy, but his only bike left is the Sargent, so he accepts there. Sammy is piled in such that all of his attacks go on my other Warboss. The Sargent Kills my Painboy, and Sammy does 1 wound, but my warboss fails a look out sir, and dies. So it is just a few boyz left who swing impotently, and then get swept. I didn't see that result coming! Bummer.
We get a 30 Minute warning here. I have no idea how this game has taken so long. My opponent agonizes over where to shoot each squad and rolls a ton of dice, I guess. I also took forever to deploy because my last game ran late, and I was disorganized. We agree this is our last turn. So he Turbo boosts the Jetbikes onto objectives around the table, and moves towards the objective guarded by my heroic gretchin. He shoots me off one objective by killing a Deff Kopta, then assaults the gretchin with his Black Knight plus sammy, and sweep them. Thankfully I have another squad of Gretchin right there to take over. He has racked up a number of free points killing my Deff koptas, and controls a number of objective. I take away the one held by Sammy with my OS gretchin. Then I absolutely must take away 1 more from his OS Scat Bikes. One is triple covered, and I use a Deff Kopta, Trukk, Squad of Tankbustas, and Lobbas to kill one squad and charge the other 2. The Deff Kopta is charging a squad of 2 Jetbikes. It can only kill one, and the survivor makes his leadership. On another objective I'm doing better. I snapshoot my Tankbustas as the 2 solo jetbikes on it, and kill them both, and then turbo boost a Deffkopta onto it winning me the mission. We tied on Maelstrom, but I got EW.
Results: 5-2 Win.
My Final Standing:
Spoiler:
2nd place. There were actually no undefeated players, but one of the other 2-1 players outscored me.
ETA: There were 2 other Ork Players. The one I played ended up DFL. The other one tied me for 2nd, but I had a better strength of schedule.
Deployment: Dawn of War
Mission: ITC Emperors will.
The game:
I've played this list before. I've actually been tabled by it at past events. But this was ITC mission Emperor's will, and I had a clear advantage. He wasn't all that mobile, and I had tons of MSU to outscore him on Maelstrom, so I didn't need to play that aggressively. Also, I got master of ambush, so I outflanked 3 Squads of Tankbustas, and all of my Deffkoptas. He deployed his VSG, Flash Gits and both Tankbusta wagons on the left flank, and his MANZ and a squad of Gretchin on the right flank. I deployed my wagon, Lobbas, and Lootas, one trukk that I could hide out of LOS and one squad of gretchin that was planning to walk up the right flank and hold it once I cleared the MANZ.
Turn 1, he took out some lootas, a lobba, and move forward aggressively with his manz. I kill his gretchin that were out of the Void shield, and failed to take down any void shields, but his scout plus agressive movement of the Manz wagon gave me a 6" charge with some tankbustas, so they charged and killed it. I also advanced my wagons fairly aggressively. He responded by pouring all of his fire power into the wagon nearest his VSG, but AV 14 stands up pretty well. His MANZ assaulted and killed my other wagon which was fine.
My reserves all come in, and I send them at the VSG. I drop it, and put 3 hull points on a Wagon full of Flash Gitz. The squad that came out of the Wagon assaulted and Kill the Manz after the Gretchin soften them up. I now control the right flank and the middle of the table. He is reduced to a gunline around the VSG. I'm winning on Maelstrom Easily. He manages to kill my Wagon in Shooting, and shoots at, and then assaults the squad inside with Flashgitz and Tankbustas. I challenge with my Warboss, and the Flash gitz kill the entire squad, and put 2 wounds on my warboss at I3. I swing back, and kill 3 flash Gitz, and then mob rule myself to stay locked. A
t this point I manage to kill all the rest of his wagons, and his squad of tankbustas. He still has basically 2 full squad of Flash Gitz, but I control all the objectives and win 10-0. I failed to get Warlord. At the end of the game I had roughly 920 points left of my 1850 list, and he had a ton of points left too in all those flashgitz and badruk.
Resutls: 10-0 Win.
Round 2:
Spoiler:
Opponent: Eldar
His List:
Aspect Host
5 Dark Reapers
5 Warp Spiders
5 Warp Spiders
CAD Bahara
Mogan Ra
10 Rangers
10 Storm Guardians in a wave serpent (BL, SC)
10 Dire Avengers
7 Swooping Hawks.
Nightspinner
3 WarWalkers (BL, SC)
Deployment: Vanguard
Mission: ITC Purge the Alien
The Game: It was Kill Points and I have 28 kill points in my list. Ugg. This is one of my most common opponents and he is a better player than his list might suggest. He took 1st turn. I reserved my Trukks, and deployed my Wagons, Lootas, Lobbas, and my Deffkoptas and Gretchin out of sight.
1st shot was War Walkers into my Wagon. Only 1 Hit. Pen. Explodes. Crap. 2nd Shot Mogan Ra into other Wagon. Hit, Rend, Roll a 6 on the rend, and then Immobalizes my other wagon. Crap. This is going south fast. He kills a bunch of boyz that came out of the wagon, and 2 lootas which fail leadership and run. Well, My plan to hide easy to kill stuff isn't going to work, because my tougher stuff can't put any pressure on him. So I send all of the Deffkoptas to midfield. 4 of the 6 take a wound from dangerous terrain. Ug. I also advance the unwagoned squad in such a way to give the Mek a chance to repair the immobilize resutl. My Lobbas kill a couple of Dark Reapers, and My non running Lootas put a hull point on a War walker. I fail to fix my broken wagon.
His turn, a unit of Warp spiders come in mishap and Die. YAY. Something goes right. He Brings in some Swooping Hawks and kills some gretchin, and the Dire avengers walk on. He kills all 6 Deff Koptas, and another loota. I bring on 2 of my 4 squads of Tankbustas. I declare my WAAAAGH. One squad of Tankbustas Kill a War Walker. The other Flats out to get behind his Dark Reapers. My Lobbas kill most of the Dire Avengers, and my Gretchin kill a couple more. My Gretchin are Heroes. I fail a 7" charge to kill the serpent with one squad of boyz, but make a 8" (10" after overwatch) charge into the Swooping Hawks and Bahara with the other.
On His turn, the last squad of Warp Spiders stays off. He unloads into my boyz at midfield. I am left with a 1 Wound Warboss (My Warlord), and a Mek. His War Walkers pop a trukk, and the tankbustas come out pinned. His Falcon Torrents another Trukk, and kills 2 Tankbustas inside. At this point, I'm up on Maelstrom, He's up on Kill points, and he has 1st blood. I need Warlord and Linebreaker, and to deny him those to win, and my Warlord is wounded, and stranded at midfield, so I'm playing for a Tie. My Tankbustas finish the War Walkers, and Shake the Falcon, and between them and the Lootas finish the Dark Reapers. My Boyz finish the Dire Avengers, and use the consolidation to head towards the rangers. My warboss and Mek Kill the Serpent. A good turn.
His other Warp Spiders come on and kill 1 squad of Lootas. They are getting him linebreaker. His Storm Guardian and Rangers shoot into my Warboss, and I roll a stunning amount of 4+ Saves to keep him alive, but lose the mek. Mogan Ra Kills some tankbustas. His Storm Guardians assault my Warboss. They do 3 Wounds. I make 2 saves, but lose my warlord. On My turn, I must kill those Warp Spiders, and his warlord. My 2 Last Lootas target his Warp spiders, and just as I had hoped, they do a jump to hide behind a building next to my Gretchin and Lobbas. This groups them up so that a small blast gets all 5. Boom. 4 Lobbas put 16 wounds on them. He only fails 4 saves, but one is his Exarch, so he could run. But because my Gretchin are Heroes, the 4 last Getchin shoot and kill the last warp spider. Things aren't going so hot on the other front. I shoot all my Tankbustas and Trukks into Mogan Ra, and he only fails one save. That isn't terrible, because I only made him take 7 or 8, but I needed him to die. My remaining Boyz Make a Charge into falcon and kill it dead.
At this point the game is called for time. I'm bleeding, but still in a pretty good position, and if the game went on there was a good chance I table him, but it didn't. So I lost.
Results: 6-5 Loss.
Round 3:
Spoiler:
I'm the highest Scoring player with a loss, so I play one of the undefeateds.
Ravenwing Support Squad:
3 Land Speeders (Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter)
Dark Shroud (The one that gives Shrouded).
Some other Ravenwing formation.
Samael
3 Black Knights
6 Black Knights (Grenade Launcher).
Deployment: Hammer and Anvil
Mission: ITC Scouring
This is a super powerful list. I mean super powered list. So many shots. So much high bs, Rerollable 2+'s. It is the nightmare of most players. I get master of ambush, and Stealth in Ruins. It is a dream combo for this mission, and I have one super powerful piece of terrain that blocks line of sight to an entire trukk in my deployment, but has an upper floor for my Lobbas. My lootas have a building on the other side of my deployment that is pretty good too. I deploy my Wagons, Lobbas, Lootas, and Gretchin. 5 of my 6 Deff Koptas, and 1 Trukk. I outflank my other tankbustas, and 1 Deff Kopta. I give him 1st turn, knowing I had to outscore him to win.
He scouts forward, then moves forward aggressively with his Black Knights, and speeders. He gets 3 plasma guns on side armor of my Battlewagon, but because of Terrain, and night fighting I actually have a 2+ cover (That's never happened to me before. He shoots, Pens once. I fail my 2+. He Rolls a 6. Boom. Crap. Thankfully the terrain in friendly, and I can get a 3+ for most of my boys. 3+ and FNP means I actually have 4 Boyz, a Nob, a painboy, A warboss and a Mek left after he finished shooting at them. He also shoots at a squad of Lootas and makes me take enough saves that I fail 5 2+ saves. On my turn, because his most deadly unit is so close (3-4" charge), I disembark my unhurt wagon, switch the warboss over to the full squad. I Shoot my Lobbas where a few units of Scat Bikes are grouped up, and manage to put 10 Saves on one unit, and 6 on another. He fails one in each unit I Then shoot my Boyz at the Knights they plan to assault. A minor misplay happens here, that isn't really a big thing. He is on Ruins with shrouded for a 2+, so he doesn't Jink. I make him take 3 Saves, and he rolls 2 1's. He Rerolls them (Which he shouldn't be able to do, because it is reroll Jink, not cover saves, but his rerolls are snake eyes. So my 3-4" charge becomes a 7" Charge. Doh! My Lootas put some wounds on another squad of Scat Bikes. He make 3/4 leadership test on Scat bikes. Then I assault leading the Way with Deff Koptas to eat overwatch. I didn't realize these Dark Angels are like Tau, so the Squad kills the deffkopta, but there other squads supporting fire to kill some of my boyzs, and turn my 7" charge into a 10" charge. So now I'm panicked. Even with Rerolls I only get a 9", so my core units are left hanging in the wind. My other squad assaults and kills 3 Black Knights. It wasn't a terrible turn for me. I lost about 280 points, and did about 340 points of damage, but I am way, way out of position.
He gets a little over confident, and advances on me farther planning to charge the squad left hanging in the wind. He shoots a blistering amount of shots into them, and I make a stunning amount of saves and Look out sirs. It comes down to one Warboss looking out to the other warboss. I fail 2 Lucky Stikk rerolls, and by the end of shooting the unit has a giant hole in the middle, the nob is dead, and both warbosses are down to 1 wound. He charges, and rolls a 3" That puts him into base with only 1 model, my warboss, and more than 3" away from the rest of my Orks. I challenge with the warboss, the only one that he is in base with. He accepts with Sammy. Sammy kills the boss, and 1 more Ork. His other models tried to pile into my squad, but were too far away to make base. It was ruled that they couldn't swing even though most of them were within 2" of the ongoing challenge. I did transfer all of the HOW's to the squad, and the overflow from the challenge. So I got to Pile in 2nd, and swung. I killed all but one Bike, and Samual took a wound somehow (overwatch?). I won combat by a bunch. He tries to hit and run and fails.
On My turn, 2 of my Tankbustas came in. I was still hunting jetbikes, and used the trukks to tankshock him off an important objective. I put one wound on 4 different squads of Scat bikes, and he made all of the leadership tests. My Deffkoptas were keeping maelstrom even. We got ready for the combat. I challenge with my Painboy, but his only bike left is the Sargent, so he accepts there. Sammy is piled in such that all of his attacks go on my other Warboss. The Sargent Kills my Painboy, and Sammy does 1 wound, but my warboss fails a look out sir, and dies. So it is just a few boyz left who swing impotently, and then get swept. I didn't see that result coming! Bummer.
We get a 30 Minute warning here. I have no idea how this game has taken so long. My opponent agonizes over where to shoot each squad and rolls a ton of dice, I guess. I also took forever to deploy because my last game ran late, and I was disorganized. We agree this is our last turn. So he Turbo boosts the Jetbikes onto objectives around the table, and moves towards the objective guarded by my heroic gretchin. He shoots me off one objective by killing a Deff Kopta, then assaults the gretchin with his Black Knight plus sammy, and sweep them. Thankfully I have another squad of Gretchin right there to take over. He has racked up a number of free points killing my Deff koptas, and controls a number of objective. I take away the one held by Sammy with my OS gretchin. Then I absolutely must take away 1 more from his OS Scat Bikes. One is triple covered, and I use a Deff Kopta, Trukk, Squad of Tankbustas, and Lobbas to kill one squad and charge the other 2. The Deff Kopta is charging a squad of 2 Jetbikes. It can only kill one, and the survivor makes his leadership. On another objective I'm doing better. I snapshoot my Tankbustas as the 2 solo jetbikes on it, and kill them both, and then turbo boost a Deffkopta onto it winning me the mission. We tied on Maelstrom, but I got EW.
Results: 5-2 Win.
My Final Standing:
Spoiler:
2nd place. There were actually no undefeated players, but one of the other 2-1 players outscored me.
ETA: There were 2 other Ork Players. The one I played ended up DFL. The other one tied me for 2nd, but I had a better strength of schedule.
About the gets hot on the KMKs, I might be reading this wrong? It looks like people were saying that, for instance, if I get a 1 on the "gets hot" roll, and I use the ammo runt, not only do I get to reroll the "gets hot" result, but I also get to reroll the scatter, even though I only consumed one ammo runt. Is that right or was I reading that post wrong, because that doesn't make much sense to me.
So, from now on, every army will include a formation of 2-4 scouts + 1-3 vanguards that don't scatter and charge the turn they arrive + they can decide if they want to arrive or not.
We have to adapt to it. First of all, our backlines are never safe again. Lootas, big gunz, tanks - all won't hold on it's own. A massive bauble-wrap is needed. Or mega-characters. That's an allready fine combination. 3-5 big gunz, mega-boss or megamek + regular mek. This way we have a t7 bunker with 2+ armor and ld8-9. Mobile, shooty and capable of killing stuff in mellee to boot.
Oh, and we should also run this scouts + vanguards. They're exactly what orks need. Luckilly, i've got 10-20 sm jumppacks for the original purpose of making stormboyz cause i got exhausted with constructing rokkit packs out of clay.
Vitali Advenil wrote: About the gets hot on the KMKs, I might be reading this wrong? It looks like people were saying that, for instance, if I get a 1 on the "gets hot" roll, and I use the ammo runt, not only do I get to reroll the "gets hot" result, but I also get to reroll the scatter, even though I only consumed one ammo runt. Is that right or was I reading that post wrong, because that doesn't make much sense to me.
You always have to reroll both, they are considered one 'to hit' roll. So if you reroll because you have a bad scatter, you also need to reroll the gets hot part.
Vitali Advenil wrote: About the gets hot on the KMKs, I might be reading this wrong? It looks like people were saying that, for instance, if I get a 1 on the "gets hot" roll, and I use the ammo runt, not only do I get to reroll the "gets hot" result, but I also get to reroll the scatter, even though I only consumed one ammo runt. Is that right or was I reading that post wrong, because that doesn't make much sense to me.
You always have to reroll both, they are considered one 'to hit' roll. So if you reroll because you have a bad scatter, you also need to reroll the gets hot part.
Actually, what i'm saying is that since the ammo runt gives the ability for a reroll, you get to reroll the gets hot as long as an ammo runt is still there. It doesn't consume the ammo runt, because a get's hot check on a blast weapon is NOT a roll to hit. The reroll comes from the section in the gets hot rules that says "as long as a weapon CAN reroll to hit, you may reroll the dice to see if a blast weapon gets hot...". (emphasis mine, probably paraphrased). So, as long as you never actually use the runt to reroll the scatter (unless it's a critical shot and you really really need to hit something) you'll have very reliable KMKs for the entirety of a game.
koooaei wrote: what? I think you're still consuming an ammo runt. Cause without consuming it, you're not getting an ability to reroll the to-hit.
It's order of operations - you don't declare the reroll until after you've seen whether the blast hits or not. So, when the gets hot check is made there's no decision yet whether or not to burn the runt. The reroll for the gets hot check applies as long as the gun has a runt.
It's order of operations - you don't declare the reroll until after you've seen whether the blast hits or not. So, when the gets hot check is made there's no decision yet whether or not to burn the runt. The reroll for the gets hot check applies as long as the gun has a runt.
I see what you are trying to do and it would have been nice if this is true, but really it seems definitely wrong to re-roll Get hot without consuming an ammo runt. And i don't know any player (including me) that will accept that even in casual game.
If you get 1 on Get Hot the shot is a miss. You need to consume an ammo runt to reroll, that's it. (as for the scatter, personally i don't think you can reroll it with the same ammo runt, but without ruling you better agree with your opponent first)
If you get 1 on Get Hot the shot is a miss. You need an ammo runt to reroll, that's it. (as for the scatter, personally i don't think you can reroll it with the same ammo runt, but without ruling you better agree with your opponent first)
Yeah, this is what I thought. Technically, the mek gun does not have the ability to reroll misses until the ammo runt is consumed, and you don't get to reroll the scatter because that gets hot counts as the reroll.
Rismonite wrote: I thought if it gets hot no shot is fired and you immediately roll to wound, unless you choose to consume a runt and reroll the whole process.
Yes, I think this is correct. Gets Hot is before roll to hit.
If you get 1 on Get Hot the shot is a miss. You need an ammo runt to reroll, that's it. (as for the scatter, personally i don't think you can reroll it with the same ammo runt, but without ruling you better agree with your opponent first)
Yeah, this is what I thought. Technically, the mek gun does not have the ability to reroll misses until the ammo runt is consumed, and you don't get to reroll the scatter because that gets hot counts as the reroll.
No, not technically. The rule for ammo runt says one use only this model may reroll one failed to hit roll. After you use it, it's gone, but up until that point the model can reroll a miss if it desires, this triggering the interaction with gets hot. It's beardy as hell but supported by RAW and let's face it orks can use every crafty trick we can find.
The rules say "If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule,) a Wound is only sufferered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit."
It specifically says "if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1," which refers to the actual re-roll itself. Since the KMKs can only reroll when they consume an ammo runt, the ammo runt must be consumed to get the re-roll.
Vitali Advenil wrote: The rules say "If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule,) a Wound is only sufferered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit."
It specifically says "if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1," which refers to the actual re-roll itself. Since the KMKs can only reroll when they consume an ammo runt, the ammo runt must be consumed to get the re-roll.
Read the last sentence you quoted regarding weapons that do not roll to hit. That one is germane - your point is the wrong part of the gets hot rule in this case. KMKs are blast weapons - ammo runts on weapons that roll to hit like KMBs or Badrukk's gun work as usual - you gotta spend them to reroll. In a blast weapons case the gets hot is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ROLL.
Automatically Appended Next Post: How am I the only one who sees this RAW?
Read the last sentence you quoted regarding weapons that do not roll to hit. That one is germane - your point is the wrong part of the gets hot rule in this case. KMKs are blast weapons - ammo runts on weapons that roll to hit like KMBs or Badrukk's gun work as usual - you gotta spend them to reroll. In a blast weapons case the gets hot is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ROLL.
I see where you're coming from, but even as RAW, this seems like a really douchey thing to do. Even if the exact wording allows this, the rules are clearly meant for you to spend the reroll on it, so RAW or not, I'm not going to do this and I would never agree to let someone else do this. It's a cheap bit of rules lawyering that I absolutely despise because of a few players I had to deal with in Pathfinder campaigns.
Since when is discovering a combo lawyering? It's certainly a niche use for ammo runts but all the rules read out clearly that it works.
Edit to add - I got this idea prettymuch from a local guard player. he takes commander pask and a retinue of 2 leman russes with plasma cannon eradicators. Since the unit has preferred enemy, they get to re-roll the gets hot check on the big guns. Also, a space marine player likes to take a librarian and use prescience on his plasma cannon devastators - same deal. Here's the deal - just because you *can* reroll a scatter dice, doesn't mean you always will. you still get to re-roll a gets hot check.
Maybe I misunderstand the rules for blast weapons with Gets Hot since I don't use any, but don't you make the GH roll before any scatter dice are rolled? In that case you wouldn't have rolled for scatter the first time, and wouldn't be rerolling them. If something that is twin-linked rolls a 1 for GH and rerolls it, does it then also get to reroll the scatter if they don't like it? If that's possible, then using the ammo runt for GH rerolls would also allow that shot's scatter to reroll.
Additionally, as I understand it is not the presence of ammo runts that confer the ability to reroll but their use, so you would actually have to declare that you're using one to be able to reroll the GH failure. Those examples you listed don't have anything like ammo runts, they simply have rules to reroll misses on the roll of a 1, which in the case of blast weapons includes any Gets Hot 1's.
Again, maybe I've got it wrong but that's how it all reads to me.
I've never used flyers before, and I've just started work on a blitza-bommer. I like how it looks, I like bombs, and a large blast S7 AP 2 Armorbane bomb sounds hilarious, but the thing seems so fragile. Even if it has jink and most things will be snapshotting it, it's got the same armor as a trukk. How do I safely bring these in?
Also, as far as jinking and bombing runs. Jinking forces a snapshot, but blast and template weapons cannot be fired as snapshots. However, a bombing run seems different to that, because it seems like it only rolls a 1d6 scatter with full scatter, rather than using any BS. Does the lack of BS used in bombing runs mean it ignores the snap firing penalty on the bombs? Otherwise I wouldn't be able to jink in the same turn I use the bombs.
I've never used flyers before, and I've just started work on a blitza-bommer. I like how it looks, I like bombs, and a large blast S7 AP 2 Armorbane bomb sounds hilarious, but the thing seems so fragile. Even if it has jink and most things will be snapshotting it, it's got the same armor as a trukk. How do I safely bring these in?
Also, as far as jinking and bombing runs. Jinking forces a snapshot, but blast and template weapons cannot be fired as snapshots. However, a bombing run seems different to that, because it seems like it only rolls a 1d6 scatter with full scatter, rather than using any BS. Does the lack of BS used in bombing runs mean it ignores the snap firing penalty on the bombs? Otherwise I wouldn't be able to jink in the same turn I use the bombs.
Ork flyers basically operate under the pattern of flying on and dakka a target, jink return fire and if you didn't die either shoot again or fly off for another pass next turn. They are glass cannons so survival is generally a bonus rather than an expectation. Place them so they crash in a good spot to deal damage if they crash and burn. If your worried about anti air (especially interceptor) then use your ground forces to take out or lock down the best you can any AA threats so your flyers can do some work.
It looks like you can be shaken or have jinked and continue to do bombing runs. Nothing about the special bombing run attack describes any interaction with BS and having to make snap shots appear to have no impact on it. I could be wrong but nothing I have read would point to anything different.
I've used a blitza bomber, albeit just once. It's not bad for an ork flyer. But it's still a flyer, so pretty meh. It does have it's advantages though. Like potentially threatening invisible stuff and at least something to hurt vehicles that you can't reach or shoot effectively. And it's the best of our flyers.
Cool, that's what I was hoping for. Since I mainly want the bombs I'll probably end up jinking every turn. Right now my biggest problem is that I've been having my nobs and warboss deal with tanks (since only 2 KMKs aren't accurate enough to take down stronger vehicles and lootas are better suited to light vehicles), and I want my nobs and warboss to deal with what they're supposed to. That's why I've snagged some meganobz and the bomma, and I plan on getting a full battery of KMKs (or perhaps 4 KMKs and one traktor cannon).
Blitza bomber does not function as dedicated anti-tank. Simply cause it's flyer. You don't start on board. You're not guaranteed to arrive turn 2. It's got a limited range with a bomb - around 24-30" from your table edge depending on terrain - you need to actually fly over your target. And one ap2 bomb won't do much damage even if it penetrates.
If you want some anti-tank, search it elsewhere. Blitza bomber can hurt vehicles if it has to, but it's not going to be good at it. It's not bad against certain things like ravenwing - they can't jink the bomb and they'll be in your face turn 2 so that you can bomb them. Or hurting invisible units without powerful invuls.
It's decent. More elite infantry than AT, bit it can put a pen out if you need something to snapshot for a turn. Would always recommend Tankbustas for AT though
Tankbustas for AntiTank, especially now that they have rules more suited to taking on heavy armour- even with just their Rokkits, a full barrage of, say, 7 to 10 will hit and probably pen once or twice, even on AV14. And that's without assaulting with Tankhammers and their Tankbusta bombs.
Anvildude wrote: Tankbustas for AntiTank, especially now that they have rules more suited to taking on heavy armour- even with just their Rokkits, a full barrage of, say, 7 to 10 will hit and probably pen once or twice, even on AV14. And that's without assaulting with Tankhammers and their Tankbusta bombs.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Ah, well termies and other thick elites have been a problem, so that'll help, just not in the area I thought.
Also, I don't know why, but I've always been hesitant to take tankbustas. For some reason I feel more comfortable taking Meganobz for anti-tank.
They both work. Just TB can put some rokkits to use.
I'm going to run a megaboss + wierdboy + 15 footslogging tankbustas combo and see how it goes. Had just 1 game with it with doc instead of wierdboy and an escape hatch instead of completely footslogging but ended up facing a squadron of demolishers. Luckilly, stunned one of them but got so bunched up to see side armor, that recieved 2 s10 ap2 large blast hits in the face. Was not pretty. I did bunch up cause i thought that 15 tb would be enough to maybe put down one and a half but than did just 2 pens against av11 without cover. Gona get 3 bomb squigs from now on. And probably even a combi-rokkit for a boss if i get spare points. Wierdboy would also get tankhunter and his witchfires could be fun with this handy bonus. And will try VSG next game to help me cope with 1-st turn losses.
Yeah, maybe that's why I don't like tankbustas as much? It's only 15 s8 ap3 blasts (which can't explode closed-top vehicles) shooting at BS 2, which factors into roughly 5 shots hitting. Then, you have to figure that to hit av11 you have to roll 3 or higher, which will bring that to an average total of about 3 wounds which can't explode the vehicle. Yeah, they can do that from range, but only 3 hits ain't worth the 160 base points.
MANz have a shitton of s10 AP2 attacks, and the killsaws get armorbane. Sure, they have to get in melee range, but if they do, whatever they hit is going to die, pretty much guaranteed.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Yeah, maybe that's why I don't like tankbustas as much? It's only 15 s8 ap3 blasts (which can't explode closed-top vehicles) shooting at BS 2, which factors into roughly 5 shots hitting. Then, you have to figure that to hit av11 you have to roll 3 or higher, which will bring that to an average total of about 3 wounds which can't explode the vehicle. Yeah, they can do that from range, but only 3 hits ain't worth the 160 base points.
MANz have a shitton of s10 AP2 attacks, and the killsaws get armorbane. Sure, they have to get in melee range, but if they do, whatever they hit is going to die, pretty much guaranteed.
Er, I'm presuming there's some typos in this post because there's a lot of wrong info here. It'd be crazy (awesome!) if tankbustas had blast template rokkits, they're normal assault 1 weapons. Also MANZ only have S9 attacks at max on the charge since you multiply then add, so they would never turn S10 from furious charge.
Also I think you underestimate the versatility of tankbustas. The big thing is you avoid taking huge units and use at least 2-3 of small squads from 6-8 in trukks (or gunwagons if you really want them to live and are playing larger point games) that can both shoot AND assault afterwards. So even if they can't kill it in one volley, it'll likely stunlock or whittle it down enough to be finished off by mass meltabombs. They also are great MC hunters in a pinch since meltabombs are AP1 even against MC and give us extra utility than having to just use PK's. Then there's the general threat of rokkits which can be turned against the plethora of heavy infantry in the game like normal marines, tau battlesuits, etc.
Hey so can someone here explain to me what the deal is with this Mek Boss Buzgob guy? I hear he can bring a cheaper stompa or something into the game, but I have so far only heard bits and pieces of the story so I am not really sure whats up with him.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: Hey so can someone here explain to me what the deal is with this Mek Boss Buzgob guy? I hear he can bring a cheaper stompa or something into the game, but I have so far only heard bits and pieces of the story so I am not really sure whats up with him.
He can bring a mek stompa in for 300 pt making it a 400 pt total. + wargear.
The price is actually a misprint. But it was never officially fixed.
Ah so I assume its a FW thing? I would kinda like to try it out in a game, but I dont want to be a jerk and just whip him out with his special rules if its considered cheesy to bring him or something.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: Ah so I assume its a FW thing? I would kinda like to try it out in a game, but I dont want to be a jerk and just whip him out with his special rules if its considered cheesy to bring him or something.
This is heavily dependent on your local meta. If your opponents are using the hardline competitive units like Imperial Knights, Wraithknights, scatbikes and all the other special stuff I wouldn't feel that bad honestly as its pretty tame for the most part and actually lets Orks play on a similar field of their level. If its more casual I would definitely consult your opponents first before trying him out, if need be make it more scenario based (i.e. enemy is trying to sabotage a stompa/ork factory and you have to roll to see when it becomes active...etc).
Er, I'm presuming there's some typos in this post because there's a lot of wrong info here. It'd be crazy (awesome!) if tankbustas had blast template rokkits, they're normal assault 1 weapons. Also MANZ only have S9 attacks at max on the charge since you multiply then add, so they would never turn S10 from furious charge.
Also I think you underestimate the versatility of tankbustas. The big thing is you avoid taking huge units and use at least 2-3 of small squads from 6-8 in trukks (or gunwagons if you really want them to live and are playing larger point games) that can both shoot AND assault afterwards. So even if they can't kill it in one volley, it'll likely stunlock or whittle it down enough to be finished off by mass meltabombs. They also are great MC hunters in a pinch since meltabombs are AP1 even against MC and give us extra utility than having to just use PK's. Then there's the general threat of rokkits which can be turned against the plethora of heavy infantry in the game like normal marines, tau battlesuits, etc.
Yeah I don't know why the hell I said blasts. Jesus a squad putting out 15 blast markers for that cheap would be hella silly.
Also yeah I meant to say S9. I dunno, I think I was tired or something, but since I run normal nobs I know about the s9 thing.
And I see your point about tankbustas being more versatile. I was only looking at them from an anti-tank point of view. While I still think meganobz are better for anti-tank, they struggle against the other things tankbusters can deal with. Granted, I could always take a mix of both.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, I have a question about how to run these trukks full of tankbustas/meganobz. Of course, I expect it to explode on turn 2, if not sooner, but I want at least some protection. Would running a squad of bikers in front of the trukk help draw some of the fire away, or at least provide some cover? They move at the same speed, and it could possible force the enemy into making a choice between bikers or elites. I dunno, it's completely theory hammer because I've never tried it yet, but I want to get y'alls 0.02 cents on the issue.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Also, I have a question about how to run these trukks full of tankbustas/meganobz. Of course, I expect it to explode on turn 2, if not sooner, but I want at least some protection. Would running a squad of bikers in front of the trukk help draw some of the fire away, or at least provide some cover? They move at the same speed, and it could possible force the enemy into making a choice between bikers or elites. I dunno, it's completely theory hammer because I've never tried it yet, but I want to get y'alls 0.02 cents on the issue.
Bikes can sorta draw fire, but you end up spending more on the bikes than you do on the Trukks and their contents. I think what you are really looking for is Deff Koptas.
Scout Allows them to move before your enemy and create a Mobile screen for the trukks. They are big enough models to easily cover 50%, and when you get to the enemy they can eat overwatch, score objectives, or tarpit stuff. You can deploy your trukks at the edge of their deployment zone, and Deff Koptas behind them. In the Scout phase the Deff Koptas can scout to the front, and now your Trukks have a 5+ cover save.
Another thing to consider is my favorite trick with Tankbustas. If I roll "Master of Ambush", then I often outflank the Tankbustas and the Trukks with them. It gets them where they need to go without taking any fire on the way. If I am doing vanguard deployment I often reserve the Tankbustas even without Master of Ambush.
The deffkopta thing sounds like a good idea. I don't like the idea that I'll have to sort of pocket my trukks near the back, but the scouting deff koptas will definitely aid with that.
I see that recommended pretty much everywhere, yet I've never seen it used. Has that just ascended to meme status and I'm out of the loop, or is it some super-god-tier gak that I'm also out of the loop about?
Vitali Advenil wrote: I see that recommended pretty much everywhere, yet I've never seen it used. Has that just ascended to meme status and I'm out of the loop, or is it some super-god-tier gak that I'm also out of the loop about?
Neither. It's just a 100 pt av12 3 HP bunker for everyone within 12". That can regenerate each HP on a 5+. Bonus points is that it's immune to haywire, grav and cron weapons. It doesn't get saves like cover or invul, however.
It's actually not too hard to put down 3 av12 hp and proceed to shoot what's inside. But it's a constant annoyance. Pretty good thing, all in all.
But be careful - it also affects your opponent if he gets inside this area. You might want some good counter-assault. Might want to change your list up a bit for VSG. That's probably one of the reasons you don't see it very often. It's not that great for a full-shooty army facing something melee-oriented. And most armies are shooty with some fast tough mellee mini-deathstar now.
Yeah, most of my units are moving out of my deployment zone, so unless I really wanna protect my lootas and KMKs, I think I'll pass. And, honestly, it really only sounds like kind of an annoyance than anything.
Vitali Advenil wrote: I see that recommended pretty much everywhere, yet I've never seen it used. Has that just ascended to meme status and I'm out of the loop, or is it some super-god-tier gak that I'm also out of the loop about?
I use a VSG at many tourneys. A friend recently attended an ITC event. 8 players. 6 Void Shield Generators.
GW in its infinite wisdom made 100 of these and sold them, and then quite making it. So it is impossible to get a legit one. But recasters make them, and most people just find a kit that looks about right. The legit model is about bastion sized, so I recommend you go with something similar in size, but I've seen people put something the size of an objective marker on a table, and call it a void shield generator. They tend to get the "TFG" treatment.
Comments were thrown that it would have been a different game had they gone 
