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There's a current thread on the subject of Mek guns, ammo runts and rerolls over in YMDC.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/672895.page
Seems like this disagreement would be better addressed outside of this thread.

Maybe I misunderstand the rules for blast weapons with Gets Hot since I don't use any, but don't you make the GH roll before any scatter dice are rolled? In that case you wouldn't have rolled for scatter the first time, and wouldn't be rerolling them. If something that is twin-linked rolls a 1 for GH and rerolls it, does it then also get to reroll the scatter if they don't like it? If that's possible, then using the ammo runt for GH rerolls would also allow that shot's scatter to reroll.

Additionally, as I understand it is not the presence of ammo runts that confer the ability to reroll but their use, so you would actually have to declare that you're using one to be able to reroll the GH failure. Those examples you listed don't have anything like ammo runts, they simply have rules to reroll misses on the roll of a 1, which in the case of blast weapons includes any Gets Hot 1's.

Again, maybe I've got it wrong but that's how it all reads to me.

How about a change of place?

I've never used flyers before, and I've just started work on a blitza-bommer. I like how it looks, I like bombs, and a large blast S7 AP 2 Armorbane bomb sounds hilarious, but the thing seems so fragile. Even if it has jink and most things will be snapshotting it, it's got the same armor as a trukk. How do I safely bring these in?

Also, as far as jinking and bombing runs. Jinking forces a snapshot, but blast and template weapons cannot be fired as snapshots. However, a bombing run seems different to that, because it seems like it only rolls a 1d6 scatter with full scatter, rather than using any BS. Does the lack of BS used in bombing runs mean it ignores the snap firing penalty on the bombs? Otherwise I wouldn't be able to jink in the same turn I use the bombs.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
How about a change of place?

I've never used flyers before, and I've just started work on a blitza-bommer. I like how it looks, I like bombs, and a large blast S7 AP 2 Armorbane bomb sounds hilarious, but the thing seems so fragile. Even if it has jink and most things will be snapshotting it, it's got the same armor as a trukk. How do I safely bring these in?

Also, as far as jinking and bombing runs. Jinking forces a snapshot, but blast and template weapons cannot be fired as snapshots. However, a bombing run seems different to that, because it seems like it only rolls a 1d6 scatter with full scatter, rather than using any BS. Does the lack of BS used in bombing runs mean it ignores the snap firing penalty on the bombs? Otherwise I wouldn't be able to jink in the same turn I use the bombs.

Ork flyers basically operate under the pattern of flying on and dakka a target, jink return fire and if you didn't die either shoot again or fly off for another pass next turn. They are glass cannons so survival is generally a bonus rather than an expectation. Place them so they crash in a good spot to deal damage if they crash and burn. If your worried about anti air (especially interceptor) then use your ground forces to take out or lock down the best you can any AA threats so your flyers can do some work.

It looks like you can be shaken or have jinked and continue to do bombing runs. Nothing about the special bombing run attack describes any interaction with BS and having to make snap shots appear to have no impact on it. I could be wrong but nothing I have read would point to anything different.

I've used a blitza bomber, albeit just once. It's not bad for an ork flyer. But it's still a flyer, so pretty meh. It does have it's advantages though. Like potentially threatening invisible stuff and at least something to hurt vehicles that you can't reach or shoot effectively. And it's the best of our flyers.

Cool, that's what I was hoping for. Since I mainly want the bombs I'll probably end up jinking every turn. Right now my biggest problem is that I've been having my nobs and warboss deal with tanks (since only 2 KMKs aren't accurate enough to take down stronger vehicles and lootas are better suited to light vehicles), and I want my nobs and warboss to deal with what they're supposed to. That's why I've snagged some meganobz and the bomma, and I plan on getting a full battery of KMKs (or perhaps 4 KMKs and one traktor cannon).

Blitza bomber does not function as dedicated anti-tank. Simply cause it's flyer. You don't start on board. You're not guaranteed to arrive turn 2. It's got a limited range with a bomb - around 24-30" from your table edge depending on terrain - you need to actually fly over your target. And one ap2 bomb won't do much damage even if it penetrates.

If you want some anti-tank, search it elsewhere. Blitza bomber can hurt vehicles if it has to, but it's not going to be good at it. It's not bad against certain things like ravenwing - they can't jink the bomb and they'll be in your face turn 2 so that you can bomb them. Or hurting invisible units without powerful invuls.

Sadly enough the blitza bomma is more useful for killing something like terminators then vehicles.

Yeah, or Barrage Sniping in a Zhadsnark list.

It's decent. More elite infantry than AT, bit it can put a pen out if you need something to snapshot for a turn. Would always recommend Tankbustas for AT though

Tankbustas for AntiTank, especially now that they have rules more suited to taking on heavy armour- even with just their Rokkits, a full barrage of, say, 7 to 10 will hit and probably pen once or twice, even on AV14. And that's without assaulting with Tankhammers and their Tankbusta bombs.

Anvildude wrote:
Tankbustas for AntiTank, especially now that they have rules more suited to taking on heavy armour- even with just their Rokkits, a full barrage of, say, 7 to 10 will hit and probably pen once or twice, even on AV14. And that's without assaulting with Tankhammers and their Tankbusta bombs.

Rokkits can't Pen AV 14. Melta Bombs can, though.

Does Tankhunters work differently than it used to? I thought it added 1 to the penetration roll.

Anvildude wrote:
Does Tankhunters work differently than it used to? I thought it added 1 to the penetration roll.

It lets you re-roll failed armour pen and glances now.

Ah, well termies and other thick elites have been a problem, so that'll help, just not in the area I thought.

Also, I don't know why, but I've always been hesitant to take tankbustas. For some reason I feel more comfortable taking Meganobz for anti-tank.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Ah, well termies and other thick elites have been a problem, so that'll help, just not in the area I thought.

Also, I don't know why, but I've always been hesitant to take tankbustas. For some reason I feel more comfortable taking Meganobz for anti-tank.

They both work. Just TB can put some rokkits to use.

I'm going to run a megaboss + wierdboy + 15 footslogging tankbustas combo and see how it goes. Had just 1 game with it with doc instead of wierdboy and an escape hatch instead of completely footslogging but ended up facing a squadron of demolishers. Luckilly, stunned one of them but got so bunched up to see side armor, that recieved 2 s10 ap2 large blast hits in the face. Was not pretty. I did bunch up cause i thought that 15 tb would be enough to maybe put down one and a half but than did just 2 pens against av11 without cover. Gona get 3 bomb squigs from now on. And probably even a combi-rokkit for a boss if i get spare points. Wierdboy would also get tankhunter and his witchfires could be fun with this handy bonus. And will try VSG next game to help me cope with 1-st turn losses.

Yeah, maybe that's why I don't like tankbustas as much? It's only 15 s8 ap3 blasts (which can't explode closed-top vehicles) shooting at BS 2, which factors into roughly 5 shots hitting. Then, you have to figure that to hit av11 you have to roll 3 or higher, which will bring that to an average total of about 3 wounds which can't explode the vehicle. Yeah, they can do that from range, but only 3 hits ain't worth the 160 base points.

MANz have a shitton of s10 AP2 attacks, and the killsaws get armorbane. Sure, they have to get in melee range, but if they do, whatever they hit is going to die, pretty much guaranteed.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Yeah, maybe that's why I don't like tankbustas as much? It's only 15 s8 ap3 blasts (which can't explode closed-top vehicles) shooting at BS 2, which factors into roughly 5 shots hitting. Then, you have to figure that to hit av11 you have to roll 3 or higher, which will bring that to an average total of about 3 wounds which can't explode the vehicle. Yeah, they can do that from range, but only 3 hits ain't worth the 160 base points.

MANz have a shitton of s10 AP2 attacks, and the killsaws get armorbane. Sure, they have to get in melee range, but if they do, whatever they hit is going to die, pretty much guaranteed.

Er, I'm presuming there's some typos in this post because there's a lot of wrong info here. It'd be crazy (awesome!) if tankbustas had blast template rokkits, they're normal assault 1 weapons. Also MANZ only have S9 attacks at max on the charge since you multiply then add, so they would never turn S10 from furious charge.

Also I think you underestimate the versatility of tankbustas. The big thing is you avoid taking huge units and use at least 2-3 of small squads from 6-8 in trukks (or gunwagons if you really want them to live and are playing larger point games) that can both shoot AND assault afterwards. So even if they can't kill it in one volley, it'll likely stunlock or whittle it down enough to be finished off by mass meltabombs. They also are great MC hunters in a pinch since meltabombs are AP1 even against MC and give us extra utility than having to just use PK's. Then there's the general threat of rokkits which can be turned against the plethora of heavy infantry in the game like normal marines, tau battlesuits, etc.

Agree with Grimskul. The best use of TB is mid-small sized squads in transports. They do shine here.

However, all the transports i have is one truck. And footslogging TB aren't amazing. Trying to make them work, however.

Hey so can someone here explain to me what the deal is with this Mek Boss Buzgob guy? I hear he can bring a cheaper stompa or something into the game, but I have so far only heard bits and pieces of the story so I am not really sure whats up with him.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Hey so can someone here explain to me what the deal is with this Mek Boss Buzgob guy? I hear he can bring a cheaper stompa or something into the game, but I have so far only heard bits and pieces of the story so I am not really sure whats up with him.

He can bring a mek stompa in for 300 pt making it a 400 pt total. + wargear.

The price is actually a misprint. But it was never officially fixed.

Ah so I assume its a FW thing? I would kinda like to try it out in a game, but I dont want to be a jerk and just whip him out with his special rules if its considered cheesy to bring him or something.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Ah so I assume its a FW thing? I would kinda like to try it out in a game, but I dont want to be a jerk and just whip him out with his special rules if its considered cheesy to bring him or something.

This is heavily dependent on your local meta. If your opponents are using the hardline competitive units like Imperial Knights, Wraithknights, scatbikes and all the other special stuff I wouldn't feel that bad honestly as its pretty tame for the most part and actually lets Orks play on a similar field of their level. If its more casual I would definitely consult your opponents first before trying him out, if need be make it more scenario based (i.e. enemy is trying to sabotage a stompa/ork factory and you have to roll to see when it becomes active...etc).

 Grimskul wrote:


Er, I'm presuming there's some typos in this post because there's a lot of wrong info here. It'd be crazy (awesome!) if tankbustas had blast template rokkits, they're normal assault 1 weapons. Also MANZ only have S9 attacks at max on the charge since you multiply then add, so they would never turn S10 from furious charge.

Also I think you underestimate the versatility of tankbustas. The big thing is you avoid taking huge units and use at least 2-3 of small squads from 6-8 in trukks (or gunwagons if you really want them to live and are playing larger point games) that can both shoot AND assault afterwards. So even if they can't kill it in one volley, it'll likely stunlock or whittle it down enough to be finished off by mass meltabombs. They also are great MC hunters in a pinch since meltabombs are AP1 even against MC and give us extra utility than having to just use PK's. Then there's the general threat of rokkits which can be turned against the plethora of heavy infantry in the game like normal marines, tau battlesuits, etc.

Yeah I don't know why the hell I said blasts. Jesus a squad putting out 15 blast markers for that cheap would be hella silly.

Also yeah I meant to say S9. I dunno, I think I was tired or something, but since I run normal nobs I know about the s9 thing.

And I see your point about tankbustas being more versatile. I was only looking at them from an anti-tank point of view. While I still think meganobz are better for anti-tank, they struggle against the other things tankbusters can deal with. Granted, I could always take a mix of both.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I have a question about how to run these trukks full of tankbustas/meganobz. Of course, I expect it to explode on turn 2, if not sooner, but I want at least some protection. Would running a squad of bikers in front of the trukk help draw some of the fire away, or at least provide some cover? They move at the same speed, and it could possible force the enemy into making a choice between bikers or elites. I dunno, it's completely theory hammer because I've never tried it yet, but I want to get y'alls 0.02 cents on the issue.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Also, I have a question about how to run these trukks full of tankbustas/meganobz. Of course, I expect it to explode on turn 2, if not sooner, but I want at least some protection. Would running a squad of bikers in front of the trukk help draw some of the fire away, or at least provide some cover? They move at the same speed, and it could possible force the enemy into making a choice between bikers or elites. I dunno, it's completely theory hammer because I've never tried it yet, but I want to get y'alls 0.02 cents on the issue.

Bikes can sorta draw fire, but you end up spending more on the bikes than you do on the Trukks and their contents. I think what you are really looking for is Deff Koptas.

Scout Allows them to move before your enemy and create a Mobile screen for the trukks. They are big enough models to easily cover 50%, and when you get to the enemy they can eat overwatch, score objectives, or tarpit stuff. You can deploy your trukks at the edge of their deployment zone, and Deff Koptas behind them. In the Scout phase the Deff Koptas can scout to the front, and now your Trukks have a 5+ cover save.

Another thing to consider is my favorite trick with Tankbustas. If I roll "Master of Ambush", then I often outflank the Tankbustas and the Trukks with them. It gets them where they need to go without taking any fire on the way. If I am doing vanguard deployment I often reserve the Tankbustas even without Master of Ambush.

The deffkopta thing sounds like a good idea. I don't like the idea that I'll have to sort of pocket my trukks near the back, but the scouting deff koptas will definitely aid with that.

VSG

I see that recommended pretty much everywhere, yet I've never seen it used. Has that just ascended to meme status and I'm out of the loop, or is it some super-god-tier gak that I'm also out of the loop about?

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
I see that recommended pretty much everywhere, yet I've never seen it used. Has that just ascended to meme status and I'm out of the loop, or is it some super-god-tier gak that I'm also out of the loop about?

Neither. It's just a 100 pt av12 3 HP bunker for everyone within 12". That can regenerate each HP on a 5+. Bonus points is that it's immune to haywire, grav and cron weapons. It doesn't get saves like cover or invul, however.

It's actually not too hard to put down 3 av12 hp and proceed to shoot what's inside. But it's a constant annoyance. Pretty good thing, all in all.

But be careful - it also affects your opponent if he gets inside this area. You might want some good counter-assault. Might want to change your list up a bit for VSG. That's probably one of the reasons you don't see it very often. It's not that great for a full-shooty army facing something melee-oriented. And most armies are shooty with some fast tough mellee mini-deathstar now.

Yeah, most of my units are moving out of my deployment zone, so unless I really wanna protect my lootas and KMKs, I think I'll pass. And, honestly, it really only sounds like kind of an annoyance than anything.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
I see that recommended pretty much everywhere, yet I've never seen it used. Has that just ascended to meme status and I'm out of the loop, or is it some super-god-tier gak that I'm also out of the loop about?

I use a VSG at many tourneys. A friend recently attended an ITC event. 8 players. 6 Void Shield Generators.

GW in its infinite wisdom made 100 of these and sold them, and then quite making it. So it is impossible to get a legit one. But recasters make them, and most people just find a kit that looks about right. The legit model is about bastion sized, so I recommend you go with something similar in size, but I've seen people put something the size of an objective marker on a table, and call it a void shield generator. They tend to get the "TFG" treatment.