I don't know how it would benefit my army, though. I'm definitely in the assaulty camp, so the only things I have staying back are my long-range guns, and they'd have to slog through my other units to get to them, first.

It will protect you turn 1 and probably 2. What else could an assault army want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Besides, the backlines of assault armies are very vulnerable.

Well, if anything, I certainly have enough spare parts to make an orky void generator. Could be fun for my first scratchbuild.

 koooaei wrote:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
I see that recommended pretty much everywhere, yet I've never seen it used. Has that just ascended to meme status and I'm out of the loop, or is it some super-god-tier gak that I'm also out of the loop about?

Neither. It's just a 100 pt av12 3 HP bunker for everyone within 12". That can regenerate each HP on a 5+. Bonus points is that it's immune to haywire, grav and cron weapons. It doesn't get saves like cover or invul, however.

It's actually not too hard to put down 3 av12 hp and proceed to shoot what's inside. But it's a constant annoyance. Pretty good thing, all in all.

But be careful - it also affects your opponent if he gets inside this area. You might want some good counter-assault. Might want to change your list up a bit for VSG. That's probably one of the reasons you don't see it very often. It's not that great for a full-shooty army facing something melee-oriented. And most armies are shooty with some fast tough mellee mini-deathstar now.

Quick note, it's the Void Shields that regenerate.

Technically RAW speaking, it's got infinite Hull Points because it's classed as an 'Impassable Building' and you can't reduce it to 0 HP because it doesn't have HP to begin with.
That said, it's pretty TFG to say that, not to mention the fact that Void Shields are special rules that have an AV value (so do Tankhunters, Gauss, Haywire, etc work)?

It's just about the worst piece of rules writing that GW has ever done, bar none. If you use it, make sure to agree on the rules beforehand.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing this info on the VSG, I hadn't really read much about it before.

What are people's thoughts on usiing a VSG vs. a KFF Big Mek on a Bike ?

The VSG can be used against you and you can be denied the shields. KFF/MFF can not be used against you, mobile, and can not be denied.

I have often thought about using a KFF on a bike, but I always like my bikes to zoom ahead and do their own thing, often leaving them out of range of the KFF. So I instead have been taking a painboy on the bike to give the bikes the 5+ FNP, which on a t5 unit is almost like have the invuln save, but you can use it in addition to the jink or armor saves if you get them.

I think the KFF on a bike was for the big mek to jump between units where needed. I can imagine using him like a big, mobile shield not necessarily attached to my bikers.

So you wouldnt keep him with a unit? just a solo shield to jump around where needed?

Yeah. That way he could jump to whatever unit needs him most at the time. With a bike, he could easily leap from unit to unit to cover their front. Keeping him with a biker unit seems overkill, as they already have their 4+ cover and armor saves. I'd rather have that guy hopping around between boyz blobs, elite units, etc.

I see the idea behind it, just not sure I see the value in it. I run my lists primarily as a fast charging force. Keeping back the 100 points to give some units a 5+ save just doesn't seem worth it, especially if it means taking up an HQ slot.

Blitz brigade are well supported with a kff/mff mek with koptas. As for non-vehicle units, it's too expensive and short range to be good. Maybe if you're running some sort of footslogging meganob deathstar. Or ghaz council. Crazy stuff like that

Who's run a blitz brigade before and how did it go? I find the only real benefit of it is to get 5 battlewagons and still have heavy support slots opened up. Because to scout means I would lose the ability to charge that turn.

scouting make more sense for shooty units though, like battlewagons full of lootas or something

I've looked at the blitz brigade before basically just for the wall of AV 14 in front of your army. Plus the scouting isn't bad if, like you said, you stuff a load of lootas or shootas in them. Heck, I'd probably go with a mix of shootas and tankbustas.

 Icculus wrote:
Who's run a blitz brigade before and how did it go? I find the only real benefit of it is to get 5 battlewagons and still have heavy support slots opened up. Because to scout means I would lose the ability to charge that turn.

scouting make more sense for shooty units though, like battlewagons full of lootas or something

I often play my blits brigade + Bullboyz Ork Deffwing. The 5 BW work well for me because I give them all Killkannons and because everything else in the army is melee the ordnance effect is not all that bad. It allows me to throw at 5 s7 ap3 large blasts a turn which has done some major work for me in the past. Its worked well for me in a lot of games. Beyond that I have used BWs to protect large squads of lootas as they fire out of it in relative safety, but usually I avoid using BWs for my melee guys as I prefer to take 3 and a half trucks per battlewagon. "Quantity has a quality all its own." ~ Joseph Stalin

That's a poopload of vehicles on the table. Three and a half trucks per battlewagons, with five battlewagons on the table totals at about 17 trucks and 5 battlewagons. Then again that's only about 1200-ish points off the top of my head. That actually sounds hella silly- I might just try that.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
That's a poopload of vehicles on the table. Three and a half trucks per battlewagons, with five battlewagons on the table totals at about 17 trucks and 5 battlewagons. Then again that's only about 1200-ish points off the top of my head. That actually sounds hella silly- I might just try that.

Well I meant it as saying I would rather take 3 trukks for the point cost of 1 battle wagon. I worded that poorly ^_^

Hey, the Evil Sunz Flood O' Trukks is a time honored tradition for Orks. And now everyone can have Trukks!

Gunwagons for days.
Battlewagons if you're going Blitz Brigade or Codex only.
Trukks if you're in need of moar SPEED! (Or you're up against Tau Optimised Stealth Cadre that hits rear armour always)

Oh, when I run battlewagons I usually stuff 'em full of shootas and go as far as I can before it inevitably gets glanced to death. Tankbustas sound similar in concept, if not higher priority for the enemy to dismantle. The trukks are gonna solely be for my meganob missiles. It's just a shame that tankbustas can't take battlewagons as dedicated transports even though they're in the elite slot.

Has anyone noticed lootas are overwhelmingly powerful? I've started taking them in mass (6 squads of 10 usually) to my more competitive games, sometimes with a fortification for support and they just mow everything down.

Yeah, lootas do a lot of work in general. With the amount I have currently, I don't use them for tankhunting, but Jaysus with 60 of them? Yeah, throw that gak at whatever isn't AV 14 and watch it fall. I like a combination of those guys and KMKs.

A little tourney Report. I traveled to a nearby town to play in their RTT, and to promote my upcoming GT.

My List:


We were playing Maelstrom cards. Each turn you draw up to 8- the turn number, and then discard one. So on turn 1 you got 6 cards, Turn 2, you got 5 cards, so on. 1st Blood, Warlord, Linebreaker, and Last blood. It was battlepoints instead of win/loss

Round #1:


Round #2:


Round #3:



Final Standing and thoughts:

Thanks for the report Tag. Warboss with DLS and 'eavy Armour. Interesting.

BTW, any chance we could see pics of your army?

Is it usually worth the points to toss big shootas or rokkits onto a battlewagon chassis? It's usually moving so most or all of the weapons would be snap firing.

cool batrep. You should have been 1-st.
Were tl shootas on bosses worth it? What about kombi-skorcha?

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Is it usually worth the points to toss big shootas or rokkits onto a battlewagon chassis? It's usually moving so most or all of the weapons would be snap firing.

That isn't what it is for. The only reason I put a gun on my Battlewagons is so that a "Weapon Destroyed" result doesn't immobilize it. Nothing is worse than an Immobilized battlewagon. The same reason I put a Ram on my Wagons. In my game vs Demons it was snap shooting at Fateweaver the whole game. Its kinda fun vs FMCs and fliers, because nobody is jinking a single shot off a battlewagon, so if it does happen to hit, it can do damage.

 koooaei wrote:
cool batrep. You should have been 1-st.

What? Did I play a rule wrong somewhere? The Demon player was a bit rusty on his rules, and had a rough night before the tourney.

 koooaei wrote:
Were tl shootas on bosses worth it?

It is only worth it if you have a list that is exactly 3 points under and a model that happens to be modeled with it. If I figured out a better way to spend those 3 points I would have.

 koooaei wrote:
What about kombi-skorcha?

I definitely think it is worth it. At this event it killed like 3-4 marines. That isn't super, but it is something. However, there are times it comes up huge. For instance if you are next to a couple of opened top transports. I think it is worth it for the little bit of dynamism it adds to the MANZ.

I've been experimenting with Kombi-skorchas on nobs in squads of boyz. I think that is much less worth it. The issue is that Boyz are much more vulnerable to getting taken out of charge range by overwatch. Also, it is scary to put a normal nob out front. Manz don't have to worry about it, especially since it is one use, and that guy then becomes the most expendable member of the squad.

So I am looking for some tips against the new tau. I normally run either footslogging orks or the dread mob. I only have a few bikers and 4-5 trukks. Also only 6 meganobz. Other than that I have everything in the codex. If it is dawn of war deployment it isn't too bad but the other two are kind of painful.

I guess the tips against new tau are the same against old tau.
Not that i had much success yet, but here is what I would do:

> getting a cheap warboss with Kap to ensure Waaagh effect for the walkers and getting a stealth/Move through cover Warlord trait
> KFF and VSG to increase the number of walkers that will reach the tau lines or yhe objectives

Tacticwise :
> do whatever I can to cluster objectives around the same area. If not possible, at least place them so there is a straight path the walkers will follow, to make sure that tau have to come close if they want to score.
It is usually bad (for me) when the walkers start to get all over the board, then they get picked out one by one.

> a lot of cheap & relatively dangerous MSU units that can come directly in tau DZ and force tau to divert some of its shooting.
Cheap because they won't survive the shooting, and also because walkers take a lot of army pts. Dangerous like PK. big Choppa, template (kommandos. Koptas, skorchas), or the tau will ignore them.
They have to come turn 2 or 3 to make their sacrifice worthwile

Ok so a few small kommando groups would work well. I have yet to find something to support my walkers well so we shall see. I'll try some deff koptas as well. I have tried trukk boys and mek guns and they didn't work well.

KFF on a bike is useful for running BWs. Not necessarily just blitz brigade either

 cranect wrote:
So I am looking for some tips against the new tau. I normally run either footslogging orks or the dread mob. I only have a few bikers and 4-5 trukks. Also only 6 meganobz. Other than that I have everything in the codex. If it is dawn of war deployment it isn't too bad but the other two are kind of painful.

Tau are masters of killing Orks. Lots of split fire. Lots of Twin Linked. Lots of S5. We've got a few options that work well.

1) Battlewagons. Tau Have limited S8, and much of their S7 isn't very mobile. Just keep them spaced enough apart to avoid getting multiple blasted at once. Blitz Brigade works well. NOTE: Keep this away from the Stealth Cadre that hits back armor with melta. You can weather it if need be, but that is really rough to face.

2) Lobbas. The only thing in our army that can outrange Tau, and doesn't die when tau looks at it. Great for sniping out suites or drones in a buffmander squad.

3) Solo Deff Koptas. So Very, Very useful against Tau. Most Tau stuff is pretty shaking in CC, and they don't want to waste shots at 1 Deff Kopta. So its not uncommon that 2 Deff koptas can tarpit a riptide for some time. You need 2 of them so that 1 makes leadership or mob rule.

4) Stompas. Tau Struggle a bit with armor. A Stompa is a one man Wrecking crew.

If you are having trouble with Hammer and Anvil or Vanguard, consider taking a warboss with Da Finkin Kap. If you roll all in for Master of Ambush, you might be able to outflank trukks full of boyz / Tankbustas / MANZ.

Thanks for the tips there tag8833. I only have two battlewagons but what would you equip on them? Outside of tournaments stompas work but due to the tournament rules in the area they are a no go. Deff koptas ill need to try though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also are there any tips for the storm surge and killing it? I only have 5 tankbustas as well. Once I finish my tempestus scions I could ally some of them for hunting things like stormsurges and superheavies and such since my nobz flub everything against wraithknights and imperial knights.

 cranect wrote:
I only have two battlewagons but what would you equip on them?

Reinforced Ram. Rokkit. Nothing else.

 cranect wrote:
Also are there any tips for the storm surge and killing it?

Tarpit it. Or Power Claw it. MANZ are good at killing them. So are Warbosses. Just be careful with Stomp.

A storm surge is lots of points. Don't fall into the trap that it only requires the same allocation of resources that a normal MC does. One squad of Boys with a PK nob isn't going to do it. But 3 will.

Alright that sounds good. We shall see if the nobs and warbosses can finally break the flubbing streak against GCs and superheavies. If not then the list will hardly matter.

I've been real Kunnin lately with a simple Big Mek with Finkin Kap as Warlord, and hiding him solo in reserves. Roll twice on Strategic and just walk him out of LOS. Behind a building the whole game.

Hasent given up Slay the Warlord yet, and frees up more points for other stuff.

@cranect

I'm a bit late to the party, but another great way to weather the initial volley of tau firepower is through void shield generators. Thankfully as Orks we don't give a hoot of using the (now sold-out) limited edition model and can scratch build our own, and for only about 100 points you can have a AV13 building that shoots out 3 layers of AV12 void shields that covers every unit within its bubble that the plethora of S5 in a tau army (like smart missiles!) can't penetrate without getting close or collapsing them first. These shields can also regenerate after collapsing so it really helps backfield units like nearby grots holding onto an objective. It breathes new life into things like trukk lists since it gives us that extra breathing space now that our KFF doesn't cover units or expand out of vehicles anymore.

 Grimskul wrote:
@cranect

I'm a bit late to the party, but another great way to weather the initial volley of tau firepower is through void shield generators. Thankfully as Orks we don't give a hoot of using the (now sold-out) limited edition model and can scratch build our own, and for only about 100 points you can have a AV13 building that shoots out 3 layers of AV12 void shields that covers every unit within its bubble that the plethora of S5 in a tau army (like smart missiles!) can't penetrate without getting close or collapsing them first. These shields can also regenerate after collapsing so it really helps backfield units like nearby grots holding onto an objective. It breathes new life into things like trukk lists since it gives us that extra breathing space now that our KFF doesn't cover units or expand out of vehicles anymore.

Depending on the Tau list, they have a much easier time getting through a VSG than most other armies.

Also, Tau like to deep strike, and Deep striking Tau tends to use VSG's against you.

So I have seen the advice to put objecsec grots in a stompa....how does this do anything. I've looked at the rules A ND there is nothing that alows a unit to hold objectives while embarked in a transport. Is there a specific page for this rule?

tag8833 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
@cranect

I'm a bit late to the party, but another great way to weather the initial volley of tau firepower is through void shield generators. Thankfully as Orks we don't give a hoot of using the (now sold-out) limited edition model and can scratch build our own, and for only about 100 points you can have a AV13 building that shoots out 3 layers of AV12 void shields that covers every unit within its bubble that the plethora of S5 in a tau army (like smart missiles!) can't penetrate without getting close or collapsing them first. These shields can also regenerate after collapsing so it really helps backfield units like nearby grots holding onto an objective. It breathes new life into things like trukk lists since it gives us that extra breathing space now that our KFF doesn't cover units or expand out of vehicles anymore.

Depending on the Tau list, they have a much easier time getting through a VSG than most other armies.

Also, Tau like to deep strike, and Deep striking Tau tends to use VSG's against you.

Oh its definitely not a cure-all solution to Tau but even against Tau lists with lots of S7 spam via railsides or missile drones it gives Orks a short reprieve. Against deep striking the good thing is if you space well enough in your deployment they can't get within the VSG bubble to deny you its benefits. The more important thing is to allow you (in the case of your first turn being seized or you choosing to go second so you can use a denied flank manoeuvre against them) an increased measure of survivability in the first turn and having him waste several missiles/anti-tank shots to allow the majority of your units boosted in and by that point you would have moved after whatever units are on the board anyways, its not like Ork gunlines can compete with Tau in any way.

Has anyone tried out Reece's list or a variant thereof?

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/03/23/reecius-adepticon-40k-championships-report-orks-go-to-war/

Definitely will be doing Orks in the near-ish future (unless both Tyranids and CSM get a new codex before March (ha!) ) and I love the idea of a biker army, plus MANZ are awesome.

I'm thinking about finding a way to tweak the list to include a kill bursta/blasta and/or a big squiggoth. The only issue is that it costs more, arguably protects lootas less, and you sacrifice mobility compared to the DLS Warboss. Will probably just play such a list for fun. But do you guys find the kill bursta to be competitive? I think that the ridiculous str 7 ap 3 blast is probably the way to go, but it's hard to say no to the D.

Probably won't do an all-out biker star because I don't think it's optimal (if your opponent has ignores cover you're boned) but I'm open to suggestions.

I'm not too familiar with FW stuff, so I can't comment on that. If you want a good blast weapon go for the kustom-mega kannon. It's str 8 ap 2 blast for 30 points. It might not be mobile, but it can reach plenty and you can take a ton of them.

Also, I agree with your sentiment on the bikers. They have both 4+ armor and a 4+ cover save, 3+ after turbo-boosting, but you make anything too scary on an orks list and the enemy will focus on bringing it down- and they'll have the tools to do it. Even though nob biker stars are scary, there's plenty that can gun them down. Definitely take bikers, but I'd skip the nob bikers. I feel getting more normal bikers for the same amount of points does better. Quantity over quality, I say.

At the same time, I have a question about something I might try running. I recently finished a set of MANz I plan to use in a MANz missile, but I have all these leftover parts- namely the bits for a KFF. I plan to just get a standard big mek and slap the KFF on him, stick him in a BW with a bunch of shootas, and basically try out some drive-by shooting. The benefits are that the BW gets the 5+ invuln from shooting, and the big mek can make repairs. If I really wanted to I could stack some grot riggers on it, but that may be overkill. The only downside I can see is that I lose out on a big shoota because I'll only have 19 shootas in the BW. I still think it's a better trade for the survivability. What're y'all's thoughts?

I have not tried it mostly because I don't really use bikes although I am starting to.i like the idea of the burstas ridiculous blast as well though.

 luke1705 wrote:
Has anyone tried out Reece's list or a variant thereof?

Spoiler:

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2015/03/23/reecius-adepticon-40k-championships-report-orks-go-to-war/

Definitely will be doing Orks in the near-ish future (unless both Tyranids and CSM get a new codex before March (ha!) ) and I love the idea of a biker army, plus MANZ are awesome.

I'm thinking about finding a way to tweak the list to include a kill bursta/blasta and/or a big squiggoth. The only issue is that it costs more, arguably protects lootas less, and you sacrifice mobility compared to the DLS Warboss. Will probably just play such a list for fun. But do you guys find the kill bursta to be competitive? I think that the ridiculous str 7 ap 3 blast is probably the way to go, but it's hard to say no to the D.

Probably won't do an all-out biker star because I don't think it's optimal (if your opponent has ignores cover you're boned) but I'm open to suggestions

I've tried his lootastar. I'll admit, I discounted it at 1st, but have discovered it to be pretty useful. I don't run it often, because I almost always have a better usage for DLS, and it doesn't work near as well without it.

I don't like Bully boys in trukks. I've tried it a few times. Too often all 3 units got stranded in my backfield when I got siezed on. If I really wanted to do it, I'd put a VSG in the list and hope I don't see the Coteaz + Buffmander Tau lists I used to play all the time. Bully Boys can work, but either in Blitz Brigade, or Gunwagons. Reece was ridiculously successful with them in the batreps I saw him run, because his opponents didn't understand what they were looking at. An opponent that understand MANZ will just strand them all in the backfield.

Bikestar does have some problems (Tau, Centstar). I guess I don't think it has more problems than other Ork builds. MSU bikes work pretty well in alot of situations, but it takes Zhardsnark to make them work, and he needs a caddy. At the very least a Painboy as his personal assistant.

Reece likes putting 10 Tankbustas in a Trukk. I think this is a seriously suboptimal way to go. Trukks are a deathtrap. When they blow up if there are 10 Tankbustas inside they will usually be pinned or run away. If you must do big squads of Tankbusts it is worth a nob and bosspole. However in most situations small squads are better. 5 Tankbustas in a Trukk is a really, really good unit.

Big Squiggoth is slow. Gargantuan Squiggoth is pricey. Kill Blasta seems OK. I don't like the Kill Bursta unless you give it the D. I've never tried any of them out on the table. I have used a Kustom Battlefortress. It is OK, but overcosted.

Bully boyz + vsg are deadly.

 koooaei wrote:
Bully boyz + vsg are deadly.

+1
I won't field that in a friendly game, too brutal

Have you guys checked out the ITC ruling of Buzzgob's Big Mek Stompa? The Big Mek Stompa is seriously undercosted (400 points for a basic loadout). The Stompa alone is possibly enough to make orks a Tier 1 threat.

This example list puts a unit of Lootas with 3 Meks, a unit of objSec gretchin, and a Big Mek that grants a 4++ invul save against shooting into the Stompa. That allows you to give objSec to the Stompa and an invul save to the Stompa and also allows you to make five 5+ hull point repair rolls on the Stompa each turn.

12 hull points, d6 power fields, 4++ invul to shooting, and five 5+ hull point repair rolls means the Stompa will likely be indestructible in most match-ups.

col_impact wrote:
Have you guys checked out the ITC ruling of Buzzgob's Big Mek Stompa? The Big Mek Stompa is seriously undercosted (400 points for a basic loadout). The Stompa alone is possibly enough to make orks a Tier 1 threat.

This example list puts a unit of Lootas with 3 Meks, a unit of objSec gretchin, and a Big Mek that grants a 4++ invul save against shooting into the Stompa. That allows you to give objSec to the Stompa and an invul save to the Stompa and also allows you to make five 5+ hull point repair rolls on the Stompa each turn.

12 hull points, d6 power fields, 4++ invul to shooting, and five 5+ hull point repair rolls means the Stompa will likely be indestructible in most match-ups.

Spoiler:

Orks_1850 (1850pts)
Orks: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment)
HQ
Painboy, Warbike (goes with Zhadsnark's Warbikers)
Zhadsnark 'Da Rippa' (FW), Warlord (goes with Zhadsnark's Warbikers)

Elites
5x Tankbusta, Trukk, Reinforced Ram, Rokkit Launcha
5x Tankbusta, Trukk, Reinforced Ram, Rokkit Launcha

Troops
10x Gretchin, Runtherd,Grabba stik (rides in Stompa)
15x Warbiker (Warbiker Nob, Power Klaw) (Zhadsnark's Warbikers)

Heavy Support
6x Loota (with 3x Mek, Choppa, Slugga) (rides in Stompa)

Great Waaagh! Detachment
HQ
Big Mek, Gubbinz: Mega Force Field, Choppa, Slugga (rides in Stompa)
Big Mek, Gubbinz: Big Bosspole, Warbike, Power Klaw, Kustom Force Field (goes with Zhadsnark's Warbikers)

Elites
5x Tankbusta, Trukk, Reinforced Ram, Rokkit Launcha

Troops
10x Gretchin, Runtherd, Grabba stik
10x Gretchin, Runtherd, Grabba stik

Lords of War
Buzzgob's Big Mek Stompa, Deff Kannon, Deff Kannon, Mek Boss Buzzgob

I don't understand how the stompa would get Objective Secured?

A few quick recaps from some games i played yesterday:

We are doing a campaign/league starting in 2016 at my store. armies start at 250 points with modified FOC and as the campaign continues onward they get bigger and bigger until about 1750 points.

So, to practice for the first games, my 250 list was
Painboy
10x Shoota Boyz (eavy armor)
Rokkit Boy (eavy armor)
Boss Nob - Klaw, Shoota, Bosspole (eavy armor)
Trukk - Ram

I played a friend of mine who is working on his eldar. He had a wave serpent and 9 dire avengers. Serpent was loaded with double shuriken catapults, and a ghostwalk matrix.

the first mission we tried was a progressive scoring, where the single central objective was worth 1 VP per game turn to whoever held it. He moved his serpent up to contest it (i went first), and on turn 2 i bailed out of the trukk and killed the serpent. the avengers only killed 1 boy and he called game because i was locked in assault with them on the following turn.

We re-racked and tried it again, making the objective an end-game 3 points instead of progressive. I went straight to it (it was in a ruin) and just bunkered down all game while he maneuvered this serpent around to get shots at my boyz. on turn 5 he moved the transport to contest the objective, and i did a move through cover roll, got the distance, then charged and wrecked the serpent. he had bailed out his DAs about 20" away from the objective the turn before so I ended up winning that one too.

third game was vs a chaos player - 7x CSM with mark of nurgle, and a rhino with a havoc launcher and 2 bolters. This time we tried an annihilation mission. He kept his marines on foot and parked the rhino on top of a ruin. Using the trukk to get in a good position i waited for his marines to get close, then bailed out and wrecked them in 2 rounds of melee. with a good consolidation and charge roll, i was able to wreck the rhino in the following turn - orks win!

So, are orks just better in small point games, or were these missions i played completely lopsided in my favor? I'm trying to organize this league in a fair manner, so any input would help me out.

 Cleatus wrote:
I don't understand how the stompa would get Objective Secured?

For scoring purposes the embarked unit and the transport are considered separate. The embarked unit (Gretchin) is OS. As long as they stay embarked any objective within 3" of the hull of the stompa is controlled by them.

Here's something interesting to note, The FW download for the Dreadmob is gone. IA:8 on the horizon perhaps?

tag8833 wrote:

 Cleatus wrote:
I don't understand how the stompa would get Objective Secured?

For scoring purposes the embarked unit and the transport are considered separate. The embarked unit (Gretchin) is OS. As long as they stay embarked any objective within 3" of the hull of the stompa is controlled by them.

Is this itc or in the rulebook. If the rulebook then on what page?

geargutz wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Cleatus wrote:
I don't understand how the stompa would get Objective Secured?

For scoring purposes the embarked unit and the transport are considered separate. The embarked unit (Gretchin) is OS. As long as they stay embarked any objective within 3" of the hull of the stompa is controlled by them.

Is this itc or in the rulebook. If the rulebook then on what page?

 Frozocrone wrote:
Here's something interesting to note, The FW download for the Dreadmob is gone. IA:8 on the horizon perhaps?

I hope so. I was kind of confused how they seemed to skip a bunch of IA books by redoing the Eldar one recently, the Ork one is definitely showing its age at this point, it'd be great to have a clear update on all the cool toys you get in the book.

col_impact wrote:

geargutz wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Cleatus wrote:
I don't understand how the stompa would get Objective Secured?

For scoring purposes the embarked unit and the transport are considered separate. The embarked unit (Gretchin) is OS. As long as they stay embarked any objective within 3" of the hull of the stompa is controlled by them.

Is this itc or in the rulebook. If the rulebook then on what page?

Spoiler:

Controlling Objective Markers
You control an Objective Marker if there is at least one model from one of your scoring
units (see below), and no models from enemy scoring units, within 3" of it. As different
Objective Markers vary in shape and size, it is important to agree at the beginning of the
game exactly from where this distance will be measured. Any unit that is in a building is
considered to be within 3" of any Objective Markers that are on or within 3" of the
building.

Spoiler:

If the players need to
measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is
measured to or from the vehicle’s hull.

still not clear, these quotes that dont have a page number or any indication where they come from do not support the case. 1st quote refers to models, actual models, when a unit is embarked in a vehicle there is no model for the unit, just the vehicle...so just the vehicle holds the objective.
on page 82 of my softbound rulebook it talks about dedicated transports and how units that take a dedicated transport that are troops make the transport a troop, and in a cad the rules of objec secured apply to "all" troops...since this rule only applies to dedicated trasnsports then grots in a stompa wouldnt apply since the grots are not taking the stompa as a dedicated transport, and the stompa is only ever a lord of war. 2nd quote has no page attached to it, so ill ignore that for now.
on page 134 of said rule book under the section "controlling objective markers" is where you got your 1st quote, and it does specify models of a unit hold objectives....the logic here is flawed, this wouldnt apply to models not present on the table. if there is a specific rule to support your case then i would be convinced, otherwise i am not.

Per those quoted rules, a gretchin unit with objective secured that is embarked on a Stompa will measure its objective secured 3" from the Stompa's hull.

just edited my post to form my argument in better wording....so hopefully the clears up my argument...also i want page numbers.

geargutz wrote:
just edited my post to form my argument in better wording....so hopefully the clears up my argument...also i want page numbers.

I find that I need to measure the range for the objective secured ability of the gretchins embarked on the Stompa.



Okay, the rule tells me to measure for objective secured from the Stompa's hull.

This is really straightforward. Not sure what your issue is.

col_impact wrote:
Per those quoted rules, a gretchin unit with objective secured that is embarked on a Stompa will measure its objective secured 3" from the Stompa's hull.

The 1st rule you quote gives ability to a unit embarked in a building (not a vehicle) to control an objective outside the building.
A unit embarked in a vehicle (like a Stompa) still cannot control. (Usually not a problem because now vehicles can score yeah! ).
But no, stompa doesn't gain OS.

XC18 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Per those quoted rules, a gretchin unit with objective secured that is embarked on a Stompa will measure its objective secured 3" from the Stompa's hull.

The 1st rule you quote gives ability to a unit embarked in a building (not a vehicle) to control an objective outside the building.
A unit embarked in a vehicle (like a Stompa) still cannot control. (Usually not a problem because now vehicles can score yeah! ).
But no, stompa doesn't gain OS.

Correct. The Stompa does not gain OS. But you measure the gretchin's OS from the Stompa's hull.

col_impact wrote:

XC18 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Per those quoted rules, a gretchin unit with objective secured that is embarked on a Stompa will measure its objective secured 3" from the Stompa's hull.

The 1st rule you quote gives ability to a unit embarked in a building (not a vehicle) to control an objective outside the building.
A unit embarked in a vehicle (like a Stompa) still cannot control. (Usually not a problem because now vehicles can score yeah! ).
But no, stompa doesn't gain OS.

Correct. The Stompa does not gain OS. But you measure the gretchin's OS from the Stompa's hull.

Thank you. That's exactly what I thought too. It's not a dedicated transport, and the Gretchin don't give/convey/whatever Objective Secured to the Stompa.

Edit -- no, wait -- why would you measure the Objective Secured from the Stompa hull? That doesn't make sense. It's not a building. It's a transport. If the Gretchin were in a building, they would have OS. But they are in the Stompa, and not on the table. OS doesn't "project" from the Stompa like that, right?

 Cleatus wrote:

col_impact wrote:

XC18 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Per those quoted rules, a gretchin unit with objective secured that is embarked on a Stompa will measure its objective secured 3" from the Stompa's hull.

The 1st rule you quote gives ability to a unit embarked in a building (not a vehicle) to control an objective outside the building.
A unit embarked in a vehicle (like a Stompa) still cannot control. (Usually not a problem because now vehicles can score yeah! ).
But no, stompa doesn't gain OS.

Correct. The Stompa does not gain OS. But you measure the gretchin's OS from the Stompa's hull.

Thank you. That's exactly what I thought too. It's not a dedicated transport, and the Gretchin don't give/convey/whatever Objective Secured to the Stompa.

Well, that is a case of you saying tomahto and me saying tomayto. When the gretchin is embarked on the Stompa its bubble of influence for Objective Secured has been increased by the entire hull of the Stompa, so practically speaking, it is as if the Stompa itself had Objective Secured even though technically it does not.

If the gretchin granted the Stompa Objective Secured the only difference would be that the combined unit could score two objectives, which IS a notable difference.

I think you are confused: what makes you think a unit can control an objective from inside a vehicle in the first place?

It can't. There is simply no rule for that.

also only a "model" can hold objectives...embarked units in transports do not have models on the board (at least that is how everyone embarks units in trasnports, they remove the models from the board) (correct me if im wrong on this).

 Cleatus wrote:


Edit -- no, wait -- why would you measure the Objective Secured from the Stompa hull? That doesn't make sense. It's not a building. It's a transport. If the Gretchin were in a building, they would have OS. But they are in the Stompa, and not on the table. OS doesn't "project" from the Stompa like that, right?

This rule tells me how to measure distances for embarked units.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

XC18 wrote:
I think you are confused: what makes you think a unit can control an objective from inside a vehicle in the first place?

It can't. There is simply no rule for that.

This rule gives me explicit permission. If the objective is within 3" of the Stompa's hull then it is secured by the OS gretchin.

col_impact, this isn't tomato tomahto. There is no "bubble of influence". Does the Stompa have Objective Secured? No. Models inside of transports cannot control objectives. (Also, it would be really nice if you would quote page numbers, but I digress...)

This really belongs in YMDC.

please enlighten us to where this rule of yours is stated in the rulebook, for all we know you are getting it from the 6th edition rulebook. give us a page number, chapter title, section name.....litteraly anything so we can look up this rule ourselves.

 Cleatus wrote:
col_impact, this isn't tomato tomahto. There is no "bubble of influence". Does the Stompa have Objective Secured? No. Models inside of transports cannot control objectives. (Also, it would be really nice if you would quote page numbers, but I digress...)

This really belongs in YMDC.

Where does it say that a model inside a transport cannot control objectives?

I have a rule that allows me to measure distance with regards to an embarked unit from the vehicle's hull. With that permission, the burden is on you to show restriction.

I found it, BRB p80, transports, under the Embarking and Disembarking, Embarking sub-heading (good grief). That has nothing to do with controlling objectives or Objective Secured.

 Cleatus wrote:
I found it, BRB p80, transports, under the Embarking and Disembarking, Embarking sub-heading (good grief). That has nothing to do with controlling objectives or Objective Secured.

It has to do with measuring distances with regards to the embarked unit.

When you check to see if the embarked unit is controlling an objective, you measure 3" from the hull of vehicle that unit is embarked upon.

col_impact wrote:

 Cleatus wrote:
col_impact, this isn't tomato tomahto. There is no "bubble of influence". Does the Stompa have Objective Secured? No. Models inside of transports cannot control objectives. (Also, it would be really nice if you would quote page numbers, but I digress...)

This really belongs in YMDC.

Where does it say that a model inside a transport cannot control objectives?

I have a rule that allows me to measure distance with regards to an embarked unit from the vehicle's hull. With that permission, the burden is on you to show restriction.

this "restriction" is the rule you quoted on page 134 where it states models hold objectives (admittedly you didnt tell us the page you found this rule, but considering you contempt of providing page numbers i had to find it...now only if you would provide the page number or something for another rule...hint hint).

col_impact wrote:

 Cleatus wrote:
I found it, BRB p80, transports, under the Embarking and Disembarking, Embarking sub-heading (good grief). That has nothing to do with controlling objectives or Objective Secured.

It has to do with measuring distances with regards to the embarked unit.

When you check to see if the embarked unit is controlling an objective, you measure 3" from the hull of vehicle that unit is embarked upon.

This quote has to do with measuring the distance from the vehicle's hull with regards to the unit embarking on to the transport. You are taking it out of context.

This issue has already been discussed on YMDC and has been the way people have been playing it for quite some time. I am surprised to have to school people on it. The rule interaction accounts for how a Ghost Ark (with warriors embarked) can objectively secure two objectives rather than just one.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/602834.page#6979526

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/642774.page#7724741




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cleatus wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Cleatus wrote:
I found it, BRB p80, transports, under the Embarking and Disembarking, Embarking sub-heading (good grief). That has nothing to do with controlling objectives or Objective Secured.

It has to do with measuring distances with regards to the embarked unit.

When you check to see if the embarked unit is controlling an objective, you measure 3" from the hull of vehicle that unit is embarked upon.

This quote has to do with measuring the distance from the vehicle's hull with regards to the unit embarking on to the transport. You are taking it out of context.

I am applying the correct context. It applies when you need to measure a distance with regards to the EMBARKED unit.

col_impact wrote:
This issue has already been discussed on YMDC and has been the way people have been playing it for quite some time. I am surprised to have to school people on it. The rule interaction accounts for how a Ghost Ark (with warriors embarked) can objectively secure two objectives rather than just one.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/602834.page#6979526

sorry to be nitpicky, but listing a single post on ymdc that only had the response of 10 or so poeple doesnt suggest that the entirety of the playerbase agrees to your rules interpretation.
i cant believe i still have to ask this question...
WHERE IS THIS RULE LISTED!

I stand corrected

In addition: i was seeing the ruling that was excluding units embarked inside a zooming flier to score, which implies that actually embarked units could score in the first place.

geargutz wrote:

col_impact wrote:
This issue has already been discussed on YMDC and has been the way people have been playing it for quite some time. I am surprised to have to school people on it. The rule interaction accounts for how a Ghost Ark (with warriors embarked) can objectively secure two objectives rather than just one.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/602834.page#6979526

sorry to be nitpicky, but listing a single post on ymdc that only had the response of 10 or so poeple doesnt suggest that the entirety of the playerbase agrees to your rules interpretation.
i cant believe i still have to ask this question...
WHERE IS THIS RULE LISTED!

Another YMDC thread for you

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/642774.page#7724741

col_impact wrote:

geargutz wrote:

col_impact wrote:
This issue has already been discussed on YMDC and has been the way people have been playing it for quite some time. I am surprised to have to school people on it. The rule interaction accounts for how a Ghost Ark (with warriors embarked) can objectively secure two objectives rather than just one.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/602834.page#6979526

sorry to be nitpicky, but listing a single post on ymdc that only had the response of 10 or so poeple doesnt suggest that the entirety of the playerbase agrees to your rules interpretation.
i cant believe i still have to ask this question...
WHERE IS THIS RULE LISTED!

Another YMDC thread for you

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/642774.page#7724741

OK, you have another ymdc post, and ill guess for now you have other threads you can quote...but seeing as to how you cant quote a rule (quoteing in that you provide a page number or something to back the quote) then ill just have to conclude that neither you or me are correct, if we play ill suggest a dice role to see what happens.

lets see if we can get this thread back on track...how about dem orkz? i heerz they aint so tough these days...
...nd yes i realize i was the one who started this argument, but seeing as to how its going nowhere then ill accept my fault...i just want to talk about orks again.

Col_Impact is correct. You can secure an objective from inside a non-objective secured transport as long as the models inside have objective secured. The rules he quoted are relevant and comprehensive, if a little counter-intuitive. It works like this:

1) I have an objective: secured unit and would like to control objective 3

2) are any models within 3" of objective 3 from said unit?

3) they are inside a transport, so how do I know if they're within 3" or not?

4) is any part of the transport's hull within 3" of the objective?

5) yes part of it is

6) therefore, so too is the unit inside of the transport for scoring purposes

The rule that Col_Impact quoted about how to measure distances to a unit embarked inside a transport is why this is allowed. And yes, it's really not even contentious, which is why there's not a big thread on it. It's simply how the rules work. I've never even seen anyone play it differently, and you can bet your bottom dollar that that is exactly how any reputable event would play it

geargutz wrote:

col_impact wrote:

geargutz wrote:

col_impact wrote:
This issue has already been discussed on YMDC and has been the way people have been playing it for quite some time. I am surprised to have to school people on it. The rule interaction accounts for how a Ghost Ark (with warriors embarked) can objectively secure two objectives rather than just one.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/602834.page#6979526

sorry to be nitpicky, but listing a single post on ymdc that only had the response of 10 or so poeple doesnt suggest that the entirety of the playerbase agrees to your rules interpretation.
i cant believe i still have to ask this question...
WHERE IS THIS RULE LISTED!

Another YMDC thread for you

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/642774.page#7724741

OK, you have another ymdc post, and ill guess for now you have other threads you can quote...but seeing as to how you cant quote a rule (quoteing in that you provide a page number or something to back the quote) then ill just have to conclude that neither you or me are correct, if we play ill suggest a dice role to see what happens.

lets see if we can get this thread back on track...how about dem orkz? i heerz they aint so tough these days...
...nd yes i realize i was the one who started this argument, but seeing as to how its going nowhere then ill accept my fault...i just want to talk about orks again.

I am correct because I have the rules on my side and the fact that it's been the way people have been playing it for quite some time. If you want to challenge me on that then feel free to post a thread on YMDC. Roll-offs are not required when one side has rules justification and the other side does not.

You can find the main rule in EMBARKING AND DISEMBARKING section.

I think people are confused because 6th edition played it differently. Here are the 6th edition rules which are no longer in the 7th edition rule book




Automatically Appended Next Post:
So yeah a 400 point Stompa is a big deal.

And embarking objective secured gretchin on it is a cheap awesome upgrade.

And embarking cheap Meks on it for stackable hull point repair is also awesome.

And embarking a Big Mek with MFF on it for 4++ invul against shooting is crazy awesome.

Easy guys. No need to resort to caps.

col_impact, thank you for linking those threads from YMDC. That helps. In the future, it would help if you gave the page numbers of the rules you were quoting, please. I think you have a point about the 6th vs 7th ed rules... but then again, honestly, I can see why people would be confused on this point. I can see both sides. In truth, I'm not sure I've ever even had it come up in a game. *shrug*

luke1705, thank you for your explanation as well. I agree it is a little counter-intuitive.

Gentlemen, thank you for the discussion, now let's get back to Orks.

col_impact wrote:

You can find the main rule in EMBARKING AND DISEMBARKING section.

man, was it that difficult for you to tell me where to find it after this extended argument. now that i have my book infront of me and truned to page 80, i can finaly confirm your claim.....that took forever.
now i can reasonably make my point next time i try this in a game, the argument was never about you or me being right, it was about finding evidence as my initial post about thiis was

geargutz wrote:
So I have seen the advice to put objecsec grots in a stompa....how does this do anything. I've looked at the rules A ND there is nothing that alows a unit to hold objectives while embarked in a transport. Is there a specific page for this rule?

i apreciate that you told me where to find it, i dont apreciate that it took this long to get this out of you.

 cranect wrote:
So I am looking for some tips against the new tau. I normally run either footslogging orks or the dread mob. I only have a few bikers and 4-5 trukks. Also only 6 meganobz. Other than that I have everything in the codex. If it is dawn of war deployment it isn't too bad but the other two are kind of painful.

Back to that question.
I plan to try the dreadmob formation + a CAD with cheap warboss Kap (for stealth mtc traits) & 3 units of guntrukks Supa--skorcha

Anyone tried supa skorcha guntrukk already ?

XC18 wrote:

 cranect wrote:
So I am looking for some tips against the new tau. I normally run either footslogging orks or the dread mob. I only have a few bikers and 4-5 trukks. Also only 6 meganobz. Other than that I have everything in the codex. If it is dawn of war deployment it isn't too bad but the other two are kind of painful.

Back to that question.
I plan to try the dreadmob formation + a CAD with cheap warboss Kap (for stealth mtc traits) & 3 units of guntrukks Supa--skorcha

Anyone tried supa skorcha guntrukk already ?

im guessing you mean the ghaz dreddmob, though i have experience with it i havent fought tau yet with em, but unfortunately i dont think it would be competitive against tau, but if your dedicated to it then try a megaforcfield bike mek to cover the gmorkanauts until they get into combat...or use those points for kff for each morkanaut to cover the rest of the dreddmob.

as for the guntrukk, i hope to run some myself, but ive never run one, or even the supaskorcha for that matter, but expensive template weapon on a low armour vehicle isnt as good as an idea as it sounds (plus youl have to get a ram, adding up to 60pts). i would try guntrukks with big lobbas, big lobbas have done wonders for me in the past and can rival tau at range (the ap will kill drones and firewarriors). if you want ignores cover then try skorcha buggies, cheaper, not as killy but you can add basic buggies to the squadron to add a shield of hullpoints (speaking of which, i have run mass tl roket buggies against tau, they are pretty hard hitting and outright ap most of the army). a suad of 4 tl roket buggies with a skorcha bug can have the potential to do good damage to tau.

If your running the ghaz one I recommend a MFF on the big mek and throw him inside the gorkanaut. Then take a morkanaut and give it a KFF. Also grab at least a barebones warboss to call the waaagh since all of the walkers get ere we go. It has worked the best for me against tau actually. Since they demolish footslogging orks that is. Just need to find good support for it but otherwise it is great.

I'm wary of mff + naughts. That's at least a 110 pt investment into an allready overcosted underperforming unit. You could literally get a big mek stompa for the points.

 koooaei wrote:
I'm wary of mff + naughts. That's at least a 110 pt investment into an allready overcosted underperforming unit. You could literally get a big mek stompa for the points.

Agreed. Too many points. What you want is a Void Shield Generator. From there, you can add pressure units to your list like Manz Missiles, Bikes, and even Boyz in Transports. They will draw fire away from the slower Walkers. Adding more points to the pricey walkers actually raises their target priority to opponents.

The #1 threat to walkers is Grav. Void Shields protect 100% vs grav in most rules interpretations. Melta is scary as well, and Void shields coupled with very careful deployment can protect from a good amount of melta.

It also would help out your Guntrukks quite a bit, though I don't really like them. It is too easy to kill them and/or make them snap shoot.

I tried to build you a viable list using the Dread Mob formation. It is just too many points to work at 1850. At least too many points to work consistently.

If you did want to put a MFF in the list the way to go would be to put it in a Deffkopta Deathstar. Warboss on Bike + Painboy on Bike + Big Mek on Bike (MFF) with as many Deffkoptas as you can get. You could do it with Warbikers, but they are more expensive.

Are you saying that they're more expensive because you will typically include Zhardsnark as part of that star? Or are you referencing nob bikers? Because deffkoptas are actually more expensive per model, and you can only have 5 in a unit. Doesn't really feel deathstar-like to me. Plus, I'm not a fan of the MFF due to available cover, jink and the fact that you out of necessity make yourself more vulnerable to blast weapons. In fact, vs blast weapons, even those that ignore cover, I would wager that s large blast would still kill more on a wag with the MFF than if you just spread out

 luke1705 wrote:
Are you saying that they're more expensive because you will typically include Zhardsnark as part of that star? Or are you referencing nob bikers? Because deffkoptas are actually more expensive per model, and you can only have 5 in a unit. Doesn't really feel deathstar-like to me. Plus, I'm not a fan of the MFF due to available cover, jink and the fact that you out of necessity make yourself more vulnerable to blast weapons. In fact, vs blast weapons, even those that ignore cover, I would wager that s large blast would still kill more on a wag with the MFF than if you just spread out

The MFF was about using the Dread Mob formation vs Tau. You can't put Zhardsnark in a list with walkers. Deff Koptas are 15 points per wound compared to Warbikers which are 18 points per wound. When I tried to build a dread mob list I was only able to fit 4 Deff Koptas into the list at 1850. Deffkoptas give you scout which can be useful if you are trying to shield Walkers with a MFF.

Yes, it is a pretty sad deathstar. 4 Deff Koptas + Big Mek on Bike + Painboy on Bike + Warboss on Bike. Its basically ablative wounds for the MFF, and a Caddy fro the Warboss. The MFF in this list isn't for the bikes. It is for the walkers. You get alot more bang for your buck if you put it on bike rather then embark it on a naught, because you can shield a number of walkers rather than just 1.

What do people consider the optimal unit size for stormboyz? If run as a smaller unit is it worth deepstriking with them or just jump-packing across the board?

20 stormboyz is optimal. unless you will have a lot of LOS blocking terrain and can make sure to give your opponent other targets, a unit of 10 will just be an easy target to blast away, or diminish enough to fail a LD check. and boy to they retreat fast with those jump packs.

At 1850 I haven't kept the MFF outside of a naught yet. They almost let a gorkanaut survive against grab but the necessary three out of the seven wounds got through. I dont have any special bikers yet so that's part of why. Part of the reason is also because the big mek has the MFF and due to the hatred it has caused around here he would get bombarded by everything turn one with ignores cover high strength shots. Especially by guard... *shudder*

 Tainted wrote:
What do people consider the optimal unit size for stormboyz? If run as a smaller unit is it worth deepstriking with them or just jump-packing across the board?

The thing about stormboyz is that they are priced the same as truckboyz. 10 storm boyz costs the same as 10 boyz and a truck. Whether you run 10 or 30 boyz I wouldn't deepstrike, having no armour and unable to charge is their biggest downfall (unless you run the ghaz formation, a d6 scatter is easy enough to control to put them in cover).
Try 30 storm boyz with a pain boy on bike, it is survivable and fast. Add other bike character with Klaus to do that damage.
Another cool thing about storm boyz is that they can use freely use their jump packs for runs (they have to take dangerous tetrain tests, but that isn't so bad when they have fnp).
I like stromboyz, they are the fast 30man footsloggers. With characters they can bring the pain. Since they are 30 strong it is worth getting a boss pole since they can reliably use the mobrule table. They are easy to make from normal boyz. If you do maximum boyz in the ghaz formation you can bring easy deepstrike hordes of boyz, drop them in front of the enemy, weather a turn of shooting and then charge in (still risky, but with boss pole then you probably won't run)

 Tainted wrote:
What do people consider the optimal unit size for stormboyz? If run as a smaller unit is it worth deepstriking with them or just jump-packing across the board?

I've had some luck with a unit of 9-11 with a bp+pk nob. They're very random and have chances of running off the board if you get too many ones on your speshul move. But on the other hand, they could possibly get some nice charge range on WAAAGH! 2d6 over bikers. And thy can go over stuff on the first 12".

The record currently is like this:
In a game vs CSM they acted as a deepstrike deterrent for oblis, got charged by a lonely biker sorc with 2+ armor who killed a nob in challenge but than got chopped to death somehow.

In a game vs Space wolves, they've wrecked a demolisher and than got charged by a worn out unit of a named wolf-on-wolf with a wolf axe + wolves (actual wolves) but than suddenly killed everyone without much casualties.

In a game vs eldar they acted as a bauble wrap for mek gunz, got sent into the warp by WWP d-flamers. But that allowed unharmed kmk to obliterate those d-flamers next turn. Good exchange.

In a game vs dark angels they rolled snake eyes for a special run and than 3" for a charge and didn't manage to get to the bikes. The game was barely won nevertheless. But not thanks to stormboyz.

In another game vs dark angels they rolled three ones for dangerous terrain checks on a special run, failed all the saves, failed ld, failed mob rule with reroll and fled. Than proceeded to fail ld and kill themselves on dangerous terrain. Never managed to regroup again. That cost me a game.

So, yep - they can be decent but random indeed. Never tried to deepstrike them. Seems pretty pointless in most cases. Can be done, however. And this 2d6 run can be used to reposition after deepstrike which is not a bad thing. They're quite fine if there's enough blos to hide behind. I mainly hold them around midfield cause with their potential charge range, stormboyz can both attack and defend which is a good thing cause ork backlines are quite vulnerable for assault threats. Heck, even a single bike will wipe out all your grot artillery if you let it roll around the backlines.

As for larger squads, don't really see why would you want larger squads. If you want to go big and offensive, just use bikers. They're way tougher, shootier, more reliable and can't get pinned. Storm boyz have a place on board but they don't do the same thing as bikers do. They should be used differently.

Tried Zaggy formation once. It's not great. Mass deepstrike with 6+ armored dudes is pretty awful.

I like running max units just for fun. I've only got a few games in and so long as I don't do something overwhelming stupid they are great. I deepstriked a 30 man blob once and they scattered a bit and lost one due to dangerous but then I ran them 11 inches and they covered half the board it seemed like so they couldn't be targeted by blasts very well.

I have had success with the zagy ghaz formation with stormboyz. I would do 3 separate 5 man squads with nob and pk. It's a surgical blade, small deepstrike coupled by small squad size means they will almost always hit where you want them, they wait a turn in cover and then pounce for well placed klaw.
I used this vrs tau, but with bogchoppas. I had a mobile list with defkoptas, bikes and zadsnark, tankbusts and flashgitz in warkoptas. The tau player had tau suit spam fotmation with the new stealth Cadre so he was highly mobile as well. It was a game of speed and it took a lot to get my various elements into combat. The stormboyz deepstriked and received little fire due to the other threats on the board, in the resulting turn they harassed the tau enough to keep fire off my other units, if I had invested in power klaws I would have done more damage but they were successful for how much they costed (zagstruk was the suit killer).

geargutz wrote:
Another cool thing about storm boyz is that they can use freely use their jump packs for runs (they have to take dangerous tetrain tests, but that isn't so bad when they have fnp).

If you put a bike in there you lose the 2D6 run. But that is OK. A Normal D6 run is enough, and a Painboy makes them considerable more durable.

tag8833 wrote:

geargutz wrote:
Another cool thing about storm boyz is that they can use freely use their jump packs for runs (they have to take dangerous tetrain tests, but that isn't so bad when they have fnp).

If you put a bike in there you lose the 2D6 run. But that is OK. A Normal D6 run is enough, and a Painboy makes them considerable more durable.

Many players have used footsloggers with a bike warboss. It's a well contested ruleing, there's a lot confusion about it, but many have done it in the past.

In this case you would lose the 2d6 run because it says a unit made up exclusively with models with rokkit packs. It's under the rokkit pack equipment in the ork codex. So even if you could attach someone on a bike you would lose the 2d6 run.

 cranect wrote:
In this case you would lose the 2d6 run because it says a unit made up exclusively with models with rokkit packs. It's under the rokkit pack equipment in the ork codex. So even if you could attach someone on a bike you would lose the 2d6 run.

Man, that sucks, having stormboyz run alongside bikers is a cool sight. At least they can keep up still in the movement phase.

Definitely take them in squads larger than ten, but be careful with anything more than twenty. I only have ten models, and while they've only been shot to death twice, that's because they ran off the board every other time. The only useful thing my squad of ten stormboyz did was explode a rhino, because they're just too damn flimsy otherwise.

That being said, I dunno if I'd bother with any character other than the boss nob with a PK.

Also I am starting up a scions army and I was wondering if you guys had any ideas for allying them into the orks. They give me deepstriking anti-tank/mc and I was thinking they might help out a lot since I don't need to worry about having them on the field at the start.

Pwnt my friend tonight with my blitz brigade. He ran a Gladius list filling it up with three Land Raiders, two vindicators, and like six whirlwinds, and a small squad of devs.

I only had to get first turn, move in, take some saves, lost one wagon and some of the tankbustas in it.

Multi assaulted two land raiders(edit, with the other wagon of tankbustas), flopped a third with my ma warboss in the lootas star, destroyed one vindicator with one pk nob in some boyz. This was after one dakkajet glanced the other vindicator to death. On top of turn two : /

Quantity is a quality all its own. So long as we didn't mess up any big rules, orkz assault ruled the day.

Aside the fact Nobz would only glance multi-charged Land Raiders (Furious Charge doesn't work when multi-charging) then it's all good. Good to see Orks hanging with the top dogs.

 cranect wrote:
Also I am starting up a scions army and I was wondering if you guys had any ideas for allying them into the orks. They give me deepstriking anti-tank/mc and I was thinking they might help out a lot since I don't need to worry about having them on the field at the start.

This is a great thought experiment for me. I haven't played Scions alongside Orks, but I've played against Scions with my Orks and Tyranids.

I'm not feeling deep strikers per-se. It could be helpful to have some scions deep strike in and pop transports on 2, so you can WAAAGH charge the contents, but generally Orks are pretty decent against vehicles, and don't need the help there so much.

I would look at the "Ground Assault" formation, and mix it with an Ork Trukk list. Trukks and Tauroxes would work really well together.

Something like this:

That could work. I prefer to footslog it though just because. So I was thinking they could pop some of the vehicles/superheavies/gc/mcs for me so that the boys can just get stuck in with infantry or whatever since the nobz have been lazy recently and don't like to hit. Or maybe if the scions can just kill superheavies that would be great. I also think it could be fun to run the tide and the air assault. Of course none of this is likely to be as effective as the taurox and trukk spam because that sounds like it would work very well.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Aside the fact Nobz would only glance multi-charged Land Raiders (Furious Charge doesn't work when multi-charging) then it's all good. Good to see Orks hanging with the top dogs.

I had 15 Tankbustas multi assault two land raiders. My bad telling the story too short. Battlewagonz get them their bestest.

Well tankbustas I would believe. You could multi charge 5 vehicles and I'd still assume they would be removed from the table.

Hey so I posted something over in YMDC but I wanted to get your guys' perspectives on HYWPI since I think RAW is decently clear:

Troop bikes in a Zhadsnark army that are part of a second detachment (not Zhadsnark's detachment). Seems like it's OK but I feel like I've seen a lot of players run a second detachment with Gretchen troops instead of bike troops and/or Mek guns, which Zhadsnark prohibits.

I definitely am doing a biker army and was thinking double CAD to get another HQ slot might be worthwhile, but I just don't want Gretchen or boys unless they're on bikes

That being said.....a grot biker army though......even just as counts-as for regular bikes would be hilarious. Maybe I'll magnetize the riders lol

I used to play it as across all detachments.

That might change with the new book (Zhadsnark isn't even playable at the moment officially, since the download was removed)

You can download the Ork Dread Mob Army List Update here (includes Zhadsnark) . . .

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Ork_Dread_Mob_Army_List_Update.pdf

So I used by MANz missile and Blitza-Bommer for the first time vs a Dark Angels setup.

The MANz missile did pretty good. They took out two of those goddam 2+ rerollable jinking ravenwings before dying to some meltas and some boltas (after I rolled three ones out of four armor saves). The bommer didn't do as good, but that's probably because I aimed it at the wrong targets. There were some termies that I should have hit rather than the bikers I went for, but it stayed alive the entire game and was a good harasser that drew some fire. I'll definitely add another MANz missile to my army, though I'm still on the fence about the bommer. Lost the match by one point, but it went a lot better than I thought.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
So I used by MANz missile and Blitza-Bommer for the first time vs a Dark Angels setup.

The MANz missile did pretty good.

I ran a MANZ missile today as well. They took a wound from opponent shooting round 1, then a second on Overwatch as they Charge Mephiston. Mephiston swings with his AP:3 weapon and does 4 wounds, and I rolled 4 1's (Which finished off the Squad). Ouch.

Took out my Weirdboy as well. He did pretty good. I would have done better with a warboss in the list, but Kill Bolt is one hell of a psychic power.

ETA: I also Rolled with some lobbas. I'll bet they racked up 400 points in kills. Give them a good target (Like Marines), and they come up big. Turn 1, they killed 4 Long Fangs with Missile Launchers. Turn 2, they killed 6 Grey Hunters including 2 Melta. Turn 3, I tank shocked a group of 10 Grey Hunters to group them up, and then put 21 wounds on them. They lost 7 including at least one plasma gun. Turn 4 I shot at some Kataphron Breachers that were eating up our vehicles. They only killed 1.

I keep hearing good things about Meganobz but have yet to use them. As soon as my gargantuan squiggoth is done they will definitely have a ride to battle.

I'm going to try out a couple MANz missiles in an upcoming 1k tourney - won't have enough points for bully boyz, unfortunately.

So, i'm gona be running something like that:

2 wierdboyz
20 shootaboyz [nob, rokkits] - nob will be a warlord, i guess.
grots
2*manz with one combi-skorcha without saws
probably 2 solo koptas
lootas
1-2 solo kmk.
VSG with 1-2 extra shields

The idea is that manz are there at the brink of void shields ready to charge in or defend my part of the board. VSG will offer enough protection for the entire army in 1k but it's going to eat up 10% of the list, so i'm not entirely sure how it's gona perform. Wierdboyz will provide 6 extra dice to summon something daemonic on the first couple turns like horrors or a herald if i'm lucky. Peril, take a wound and than hope for the best. From there on, horrors or herald will continue to summon different useful things like daemonettes or dogs and wierdboyz will just throw some random powers on low wc to not suffer s2 hits every turn. If i'm gona be in need of emidiate threats, wierdboyz will simply summon something choppy right away.

Alternatively, can take daemon allies - i do want to try out Masque but it's true effectiveness is against deathstars and i don't think there are gona be a lot of deathstars in 1k. At least none that can't be bauble-wrapped by daemonettes.

I also wanted to try out a solo biker boss with DLS. But next time, i guess.

I'm helping some people out with prep for an ITC event tomorrow.

I want to show them a Buzzgob's Stompa list, but I hired someone to paint my Warbikes, and don't have them back yet. So I've come up with this list that I can field.


It feels uncomfortable to me to run an ork list that is so shooty. I could consolidate the Tankbustas and get rid of the MANZ to put them in Gunwagons as well, but then I lose some of the dynamism, and aren't quite as effective against battle company.

tag8833 wrote:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
So I used by MANz missile and Blitza-Bommer for the first time vs a Dark Angels setup.

The MANz missile did pretty good.

I ran a MANZ missile today as well. They took a wound from opponent shooting round 1, then a second on Overwatch as they Charge Mephiston. Mephiston swings with his AP:3 weapon and does 4 wounds, and I rolled 4 1's (Which finished off the Squad). Ouch.

Dont let it get you down about it though! MANz missiles are legit if you get them to the right target. They woulda krumped mephiston with some better luck

I'm definitely interested in the bullyboyz formation sitting under a VSG (at 1850, of course). That plus a bunch of bikes and a big squad of lootas....man I'm stoked. Going to take a bit to get that many meganobz though haha

How do meganobz work out for y'all?

Someone in this thread told me "Buy Meganobz. You will thank us later".

I hear they're really good, but I want some input from meganob players about Meganobz.

What do you have to say about them?

They're decent and sometimes awesome.

 koooaei wrote:
They're decent and sometimes awesome.

Define "Decent and Sometimes Awesome"

Useful most of the time. Sometimes, they win you games. They're still cheap enough to die from ap2 if msu.

I find them doing best in trucks backed up by vsg. They might be not too outstanding if you don't use vsg cause they're very slow on foot.

Want to test bully boyz later.

I have one army type I love to use that I call the Ork Deffwing. Its a blitz brigade mixed with bully boyz and so far has served me very well.

I personally only like to field meganobs in the bullyboyz formation as it fixes all of their problems. Leadership? Aint a problem, fear can sometimes help and the +1 WS makes a world of difference against WS4 enemies (which is a lot of them).

Mixing that with battlewagons insures that they get to where they are going (Most of the time), and can serve to block LOS to keep AP2 fire away from them. I also love putting a warboss in MA With each one for extra beef.

Its very expensive and the whole list is designed around them, but in my experience few armies have the pure weight of dice, meele supremecy or ap 2 fire to take them out.

They wreck face against most units, but they need a transport to get anywhere. If that transport blows up, well your MANz aren't going to do much.

Thanks!

I assume that "bully boyz" are another term for Meganobz?

Bully boyz is a formation of 3 squads of 5 meganobz where they get fearless, fear and +1 ws.

 koooaei wrote:
Bully boyz is a formation of 3 squads of 5 meganobz where they get fearless, fear and +1 ws.

Cool!

So what are everyone's opinions on shooty ork lists?

I did one recently where it was Mek Boss Buzzgob and his stompa with a buncha of shootas, Lootas, Tankbustas and mek gunz at 2,500 points. I was against Chaos and just blew them off the board at the end of turn 4.

You can out shoot assault armies, still put up a fight in meele (and win against some) and have the wounds to eat a lot of hits.

However I have not ran it against another pure shooty army like Tau which I dont think it would do that well against.

What do you guys think of a pure or mostly Dakka dakka based army?

Depends on who youre playing against and what theyre bringing. But putting them in a transport is a must

With mostly BS 2, it's risky to rely on shooting.

Then again, "Quantity has a quality all its own" as Josef Stalin allegedly said, and it's certainly true that enough BS 2 shots can get the job done, if the shooters stay alive long enough.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
So what are everyone's opinions on shooty ork lists?

I did one recently where it was Mek Boss Buzzgob and his stompa with a buncha of shootas, Lootas, Tankbustas and mek gunz at 2,500 points. I was against Chaos and just blew them off the board at the end of turn 4.

You can out shoot assault armies, still put up a fight in meele (and win against some) and have the wounds to eat a lot of hits.

However I have not ran it against another pure shooty army like Tau which I dont think it would do that well against.

What do you guys think of a pure or mostly Dakka dakka based army?

Needs a VSG and not a great idea, but bikers do put out a ton of shots. The problem is actually more leadership-based. Your lootas get shot at and lose 4 guys out of 15. That forces a ld check on 7, which you fail 41.6% of the time. Your 10 lootas run back, maybe regroup and snappier (but 41.6 % of the time they don't), but maybe they just fell off the board straight away. Not a great deployment strategy, but I've seen it happen. Generally, if you're going to shoot you want transports (battlewagons are great for getting tankbustas, burna boyz and even manz up close and personal (although manz aren't taken for the guns of course). Basically, if you go pure gun line, it can sort of work, but you always need a counter-assault threat unit or two.

On that note of lootas and leadership I did put a mek with them for mob rule. I could have one more loota or a 33% chance to save the squad from failed morale via the mob rule table. Think the mek is worth that kind of insurance policy or no?

If I use Lootas, always with a bigmek with ma and kff.

2+ 5++ helps keep them alive much longer. LD 8 helps against barrage

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

However I have not ran it against another pure shooty army like Tau which I dont think it would do that well against.

It would do decent enough vs tau. However, you'll need vsg to not die from d missiles early on. Mek gunz, lootas and a stompa are allready good at range. your weakness is no ignore cover and the stompa can get tarpitted and killed in melee by unkillable things. To avoid this, you need a blob of boyz and something fast and choppy. I'd probably go with meganobz for this role.

vsg? Not familiar with this acronym. What I currently do in my Ork list is surround the Stompa with two seperate squads of Gretchin. They can wrap around it in two lines on one 3/4ths of it to prevent assaults from getting to it. The Stompa also makes them fearless so theres no moral issues there. I am also thinking of taking Gun Wagons as transports for the Lootas to protect them from enemy fire. Made a separate thread for that though.

Vsg is void shield generator.
Works well with the green tide especially. 3x AV12, 12" radius, force field which can regenerate and is 100 points and under.

Plus, since orks are all about the kustom builds, you don't have to spend the +100 dollars you otherwise would. Just kitbash that VSG and it'll be a great addition both tactics-wise and aesthetically.

Im gonna take 238 ork models for tommorow turney. Will see how it handle de and crons

 Mr.T wrote:
Im gonna take 238 ork models for tommorow turney. Will see how it handle de and crons

inb4 purge the alien and you have 1 green tide.

Don't know what you mean.
My list:
Cad orks:
HQ1: Warboss - motor, klaw, da lucky stick, bosspole 140
HQ2: Painboy - motor, grot orderly 80
Troops1: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole, klaw 220
Troops2: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole, klaw 220
Troops3: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole 195
Troops4: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole 195
Troops5: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole 195

ork horde detaczment
HQ1 Painboy 50
Troops1: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole 195
Troops2: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole 195
Troops3: 24 boyz +1 nob bosspole 165

I think GT sucks comapring to 3x30 Objsc mobs

I think ork shooty lists are good as far as ork standards go.

Lootas, Tankbustas, mek guns, and shootaboyz are all good.

We don't really have any formations that focus on those, but between the possibility of CAD/ork horde/great waagh detachment you can pull off a lot of MSU shooty units of tankbustas/lootas/mek gunz. which reduces the problem of losing models in an unit of 15 lootas and having the rest run off- because you can basically take 9 units of hvy support. So you can have 6 units of 7 lootas and 3 units of mek guns, then a bunch of small units of tankbustas in trukks, and 5 shoota boy units with powerklaw nobs and some HQ units for example.

here is an 1850 list example for ITC type formats:

CAD

HQ-
Big Mek MA, KFF 125pts
Elites-
Tank bustas x5 with trukk- rokkits, reinforced ram -100pts
Tank bustas x5 with trukk- rokkits, reinforced ram -100pts
Tank bustas x5 with trukk- rokkits, reinforced ram -100pts
Troops-
Grots -35
Grots -35
Hvy-
Lootasx7 -98pts
Lootasx7 -98pts
Mek gunz - 2x lobbas 36pts


HORDE
HQ-
Warboss- warbike, kombi skorcha, p.klaw -120pts
Elites-
Tank bustas x5 with trukk- rokkits, reinforced ram -100pts
Tank bustas x5 with trukk- rokkits, reinforced ram -100pts
Tank bustas x5 with trukk- rokkits, reinforced ram -100pts
Troops-
Trukk boyz, 10 boyz with shootas, +1 nob with shoota/p.klaw, trukk with r.ram + rokkits -151pts
Trukk boyz, 10 boyz with shootas, +1 nob with shoota/p.klaw, trukk with r.ram + rokkits -151pts
Trukk boyz, 10 boyz with shootas, +1 nob with shoota/p.klaw, trukk with r.ram + rokkits -151pts
Hvy-
Lootasx7 -98pts
Lootasx7 -98pts
Mek guns - 3x lobbas 54pts


-1850pts

A shooty ork MSU list.

Lobbas hit things out of LoS, Lootas shoot whatever they want pretty much outside of AV 14 while sitting in cover if possible, tankbustas ride up in trukks and shoot things. Shoota boyz flat out, so they can threaten things turn 2. Grots bubble wrap. Big mek with KFF covers lootas and maybe gives some SnP. Warboss stays near shootaboyz to add in, Grots do what grots do: operation green shield in-front of some lootas- they also have ObSec being in a CAD so your opponent cannot ignore them entirely for objectives.

If you're gonna do Lootas + MA big mek, go for the max sauad size. It helps with mob rule and makes them much more of a threat. 45 mobile shots is significantly better than 21. Granted, I'm not really a fan of that combo to begin with, but that's how I'x run it.

 Mr.T wrote:
Don't know what you mean.
My list:
Cad orks:
HQ1: Warboss - motor, klaw, da lucky stick, bosspole 140
HQ2: Painboy - motor, grot orderly 80
Troops1: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole, klaw 220
Troops2: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole, klaw 220
Troops3: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole 195
Troops4: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole 195
Troops5: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole 195

ork horde detaczment
HQ1 Painboy 50
Troops1: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole 195
Troops2: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole 195
Troops3: 24 boyz +1 nob bosspole 165

I think GT sucks comapring to 3x30 Objsc mobs

What's motor? is that bike?

Could be like how I just strapped an engine onto the back of my warboss because having an engine strapped onto your back clearly makes you stronger.

Mega armor big Mek is nice because it gives relentless to the lootas, but try a da lucky stikk warboss instead. Does the same thing as long as you give the warboss mega armor (all lootas can move and shoot at full BS) and having a re-rollable 2++, as well as cheap wounds to LOS to for that AP 2, is awesome. Plus they're WS 5 so they're no slouch in CC in a pinch

Yes, it is. I pasted it from my native local forum

 Mr.T wrote:
Don't know what you mean.
My list:
Cad orks:
HQ1: Warboss - motor, klaw, da lucky stick, bosspole 140
HQ2: Painboy - motor, grot orderly 80
Troops1: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole, klaw 220
Troops2: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole, klaw 220
Troops3: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole 195
Troops4: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole 195
Troops5: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole 195

ork horde detaczment
HQ1 Painboy 50
Troops1: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole 195
Troops2: 29 boyz +1 nob bosspole 195
Troops3: 24 boyz +1 nob bosspole 165

I think GT sucks comapring to 3x30 Objsc mobs

Exalted for pure Orkniess

Have you thought about running 2 Cads? Drop a few boyz off each mob to get the points for a third Painboy plus all of your mobs now have obsec.

Don't have 3rd painboy model, only one of each deatachment are allowed so only one CAD, one codex special det, one allied etc.

Get reward for most fluffy list and i was 2nd at all. So i get 2nd reward from fluffy list and 3rd for being 2nd
Tommorrow Ill write something about matches

How necessary do you guys think that a VSG is? I'm trying to figure out what to put in my 1850 (thinking I may try a bike star with buzzgob's custom stompa)

Also, how to people keep that stompa alive? Do you just take a bunch of meks and throw them inside?

Throw in a KFF big mek as well, (who can repair on a 5+), which gives the entire thing a 5+ invuln save for laughs. But, in my experience, anything that big and scary that isn't a riptide is going to either die spectacularly or kill things spectacularly- probably both. Don't base your entire list around it, or you'll fall apart the moment it dies. Redundancy is important.

 luke1705 wrote:
How necessary do you guys think that a VSG is? I'm trying to figure out what to put in my 1850 (thinking I may try a bike star with buzzgob's custom stompa)

Also, how to people keep that stompa alive? Do you just take a bunch of meks and throw them inside?

I've been working on these questions for myself quite a bit. I'm in the process of testing, but am still far from arriving at a definitive answer. This is my current thinking, and it could be wrong.

>>>How necessary do you guys think that a VSG is?
If you are using a green tide, or Trukks, or non-scouting battle wagons, it is a must for a competitive Ork list. If you aren't using those things, and / or are able to null deploy it becomes less critical. For instance if you are running a Stompa + Bikestar then you can probably do without it. The Stompa allows you to null deploy, and it comes with D6 power fields which are essentially void shields. Additionally, both of those units are aggressive units that are going to want to get to the opponent's deployment zone ASAP. Therefore, a VSG in your zone isn't helping very much.

>>>how to people keep that stompa alive?
This is to me, the biggest challenge of list building around a Big Mek Stompa. It is tempting to put 1,200 points into that one unit and make a magical unkillable stompa. That seems like an obvious way to lose games in a competitive meta. The issue is, some people will have an answer to the Stompa. And the people who have an answer for it, can probably kill it faster than you can repair it. For instance 5 fire dragons can kill a stompa in one turn provided the power fields are down. A Wraith Knight with a Sword can down it quickly if they get lucky. An Imperial Knight can kill it in CC. 12 Tankbustas in Assault kill it in one turn.

Therefore my current thinking is to keep the Stompa relatively cheap. Don't Load up on repair rolls. Spend those points on things that can neutralize threats to the Stompa like Bikes, Deff Koptas, or transports full of Tankbustas, MANZ, or Boyz. I think the obvious way to run a Stompa is with 1 Big Mek with Da Finkin Kap inside with a KFF (I've gone back and forward on the KFF). You've already got Buzzgob. That means 2 4+ repair rolls, one of which has a reroll.

In reality, most armies will recognize the Stompa for what it is. A Deathstar. How do you beat deathstars? Don't shoot at the deathstar. I guess my take on the Meta is this: 5-10% of armies can counter the Stompa faster than you can repair it. 80-90% of armies won't pose much threat to the Stompa. 1-2% of armies pose enough threat to the Stompa that you would need additional repair rolls, but not enough that they can kill it faster than you repair.

I expect those ratios to change as Stompas start Stomping people more regularly, but for right now, that is my read.

I run the Big Mek Stompa with

1) a unit of 10 gretchin (+1 runtherd) with Objective Secured to make the Stompa footprint Objective Secured.

2) a unit of Lootas with 3 Meks (14 points per repair roll is a steal)

3) a Big Mek with MFF (4++ invul vs shooting is the only way to go)

That is 5 repair rolls


I arm him with double D and the Deff Cannon and try to have him shoot and assault every turn and head him straight at the key objective to secure it with Objective Secured Stompa.

I am really dubious about the MFF in a competitive game. Not only does it cost more, but there is a giant tax on it.

1) You've either got 2 non-OS squads of gretchin or some Ork running around with a really bad Mob rule table. Also some Elites that have sucky mob rule.
2) You don't want to make the MFF holder you Warlord (no rerolls on Strategic), so it is easier for opponents to get to your warlord, unless you pay for another unit that rides the Stompa.

If you want to include a MFF in a Stompa list, I recommend a MFF on Bike (With Big Bosspole) Attached to a Z-diddle unit as protection against Tau and perfect timing. You can still protect the Stompa when you need to.

tag8833 wrote:
I am really dubious about the MFF in a competitive game. Not only does it cost more, but there is a giant tax on it.

1) You've either got 2 non-OS squads of gretchin or some Ork running around with a really bad Mob rule table. Also some Elites that have sucky mob rule.
2) You don't want to make the MFF holder you Warlord (no rerolls on Strategic), so it is easier for opponents to get to your warlord, unless you pay for another unit that rides the Stompa.

If you want to include a MFF in a Stompa list, I recommend a MFF on Bike (With Big Bosspole) Attached to a Z-diddle unit as protection against Tau and perfect timing. You can still protect the Stompa when you need to.

Cant you just take a CAD under WAAAAGGHHH Ghazy or an allied detachment? Pretty sure you can, but I could be wrong. Hope I am not though because I have done that several times now.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
I am really dubious about the MFF in a competitive game. Not only does it cost more, but there is a giant tax on it.

1) You've either got 2 non-OS squads of gretchin or some Ork running around with a really bad Mob rule table. Also some Elites that have sucky mob rule.
2) You don't want to make the MFF holder you Warlord (no rerolls on Strategic), so it is easier for opponents to get to your warlord, unless you pay for another unit that rides the Stompa.

If you want to include a MFF in a Stompa list, I recommend a MFF on Bike (With Big Bosspole) Attached to a Z-diddle unit as protection against Tau and perfect timing. You can still protect the Stompa when you need to.

Cant you just take a CAD under WAAAAGGHHH Ghazy or an allied detachment? Pretty sure you can, but I could be wrong. Hope I am not though because I have done that several times now.

Nope :(

Its a supplement same as say the Sentinels of Terra which can (to my knowledge) use Codex SM formations or be brought alongside them as a CAD or allied detachment. WAAAGGHHH Ghazy comes with its own rules and sets of formations, but I would still think it could be brought as a CAD or allied detachment due to how the rulebook says "The Following detachments can be included in any battle forged army." and then lists the CAD and allied detachments.

Now I would define each codex/supplement to be an army as thats how I understand it. If that is correct then you could taken WAAAGGHHH ghazy on its own as a CAD without having to use the general purpose formation it provides.

Again I could be totally wrong, but I was like so sure that was correct. If you disagree could you explain where I went wrong here?

I can't talk with any authority about supplements for other factions but in Waaagh! Ghazghkull check the 'Orkimedes Kustom Gubbinz' rule (page 48) which effectively says that in order to use any of the W!G relics you have to use a detachment from the W!G book. Its a shame because there are a few nice relics in there but the supplement special rules really suck

Oh ok so I must have overlooked that specific rule. So thats just to use the relics and not overall correct? So I could still bring an allied detachment of WAAGGHH ghazy, but I cant bring any of the relics correct?

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Oh ok so I must have overlooked that specific rule. So thats just to use the relics and not overall correct? So I could still bring an allied detachment of WAAGGHH ghazy, but I cant bring any of the relics correct?

The rules for the "Allied Detachment" say that it can't be from the same faction as the Primary Detachment. WAAGGH Ghazgul is the same faction as Codex: Orks. So in order to take an Allied detachment from WAAAGH ghazgul you must have a non-Ork Faction Warlord.

If your taking a stomps then the ghazzy supplement isn't bad if you are planning on putting meks inside. Just make your elites burna boyz. Also since I normally like to have two squads of gretchin for objective holding that's where I get them from.

tag8833 wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Oh ok so I must have overlooked that specific rule. So thats just to use the relics and not overall correct? So I could still bring an allied detachment of WAAGGHH ghazy, but I cant bring any of the relics correct?

The rules for the "Allied Detachment" say that it can't be from the same faction as the Primary Detachment. WAAGGH Ghazgul is the same faction as Codex: Orks. So in order to take an Allied detachment from WAAAGH ghazgul you must have a non-Ork Faction Warlord.

The W!G book only contains detachments (with relics to go with them) and not units. As I understand it you can't take an Allied Detachment of W!G but you could of course take any of the formations or the Great Waaagh detachment alongside any other detachments in your army, regardless of faction.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cranect wrote:
If your taking a stomps then the ghazzy supplement isn't bad if you are planning on putting meks inside. Just make your elites burna boyz. Also since I normally like to have two squads of gretchin for objective holding that's where I get them from.

This is one of the only applications of the Great Waaagh detachment I can see, if you're taking two units of Grots anyway and you could make use of the different relics and extra elite slots and you don't want to take two CADs for some reason. If you're using Boyz as your troops in the Great Waaagh detachment its almost mandatory to take the Big Bosspole for one unit and Grotsnik for the other, because without Fearless those Boyz are going to beat themselves up until they run off the board. It melts my mind that it's a +2 on Mob Rule and not a -2.

tag8833 wrote:
I am really dubious about the MFF in a competitive game. Not only does it cost more, but there is a giant tax on it.

1) You've either got 2 non-OS squads of gretchin or some Ork running around with a really bad Mob rule table. Also some Elites that have sucky mob rule.
2) You don't want to make the MFF holder you Warlord (no rerolls on Strategic), so it is easier for opponents to get to your warlord, unless you pay for another unit that rides the Stompa.

If you want to include a MFF in a Stompa list, I recommend a MFF on Bike (With Big Bosspole) Attached to a Z-diddle unit as protection against Tau and perfect timing. You can still protect the Stompa when you need to.

4++ is much much stronger than 5++. This is key to making the Stompa extremely hard to put down by any army. It cannot be recommended enough.

Mega-nobs prefer the Waaagghhh! Ghazghkull mob rule.

I run 3x3 meganobs in ram trukks and 2x5 tankbustas in ram trukks. I also run a VSG and a unit of 5 KMK mekguns. The VSG is a must-have for most Ork armies.

The army has been tested and it squashes Necron decurions.

tag8833 wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Oh ok so I must have overlooked that specific rule. So thats just to use the relics and not overall correct? So I could still bring an allied detachment of WAAGGHH ghazy, but I cant bring any of the relics correct?

The rules for the "Allied Detachment" say that it can't be from the same faction as the Primary Detachment. WAAGGH Ghazgul is the same faction as Codex: Orks. So in order to take an Allied detachment from WAAAGH ghazgul you must have a non-Ork Faction Warlord.

Oh ok thank you very much for the clarification!

col_impact wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
I am really dubious about the MFF in a competitive game. Not only does it cost more, but there is a giant tax on it.

1) You've either got 2 non-OS squads of gretchin or some Ork running around with a really bad Mob rule table. Also some Elites that have sucky mob rule.
2) You don't want to make the MFF holder you Warlord (no rerolls on Strategic), so it is easier for opponents to get to your warlord, unless you pay for another unit that rides the Stompa.

If you want to include a MFF in a Stompa list, I recommend a MFF on Bike (With Big Bosspole) Attached to a Z-diddle unit as protection against Tau and perfect timing. You can still protect the Stompa when you need to.

4++ is much much stronger than 5++. This is key to making the Stompa extremely hard to put down by any army. It cannot be recommended enough.

Mega-nobs prefer the Waaagghhh! Ghazghkull mob rule.

I run 3x3 meganobs in ram trukks and 2x5 tankbustas in ram trukks. I also run a VSG and a unit of 5 KMK mekguns. The VSG is a must-have for most Ork armies.

The army has been tested and it squashes Necron decurions.

why do meganobz prefer the ghazzy one? I would think that it would be worse since they are never going to have 10 guys in the squad. The +2 is only good for large hordes since then there isnt even a chance that youll run away until you have less than ten guys and no character. I think the ghazzy one helps out large mobs more than the main rulebook for this reason alone. Also its fun to try and deepstrike stuff for the hell of it. Also the ghazzy one is good if you can kill off a sergeant with your warboss and get the rerolls to wound. Situational but can be useful. I also like kommandos so this is a good way to take more of them. For the most part if you are taking the ghazzy detachment you probably want to footslog it since its mob rule makes them less likely to run. Also with extra troops and elites its practically made for it. Plus any deep striking you roll can be potentially helpful and at least gives you some more options. I like it personally. I dont use it a ton but it has its uses.

 cranect wrote:
If your taking a stomps then the ghazzy supplement isn't bad if you are planning on putting meks inside. Just make your elites burna boyz. Also since I normally like to have two squads of gretchin for objective holding that's where I get them from.

Yeah. Forgot about the Stompa projecting fearless. That makes it a bit better. Still not worth losing OS IMO, but much better than I thought at 1st.

col_impact wrote:
Mega-nobs prefer the Waaagghhh! Ghazghkull mob rule.

Why? They fail on everything but a 1 if they take a mob rule test. In a CAD they pass on a 2 or 3 and a 1 ,2, or 3 if they are in CC. So it seems like a Codex: Orks CAD is 2-3 times as good for MANZ. What am I missing?

tag8833 wrote:

 cranect wrote:
If your taking a stomps then the ghazzy supplement isn't bad if you are planning on putting meks inside. Just make your elites burna boyz. Also since I normally like to have two squads of gretchin for objective holding that's where I get them from.

Yeah. Forgot about the Stompa projecting fearless. That makes it a bit better. Still not worth losing OS IMO, but much better than I thought at 1st.

col_impact wrote:
Mega-nobs prefer the Waaagghhh! Ghazghkull mob rule.

Why? They fail on everything but a 1 if they take a mob rule test. In a CAD they pass on a 2 or 3 and a 1 ,2, or 3 if they are in CC. So it seems like a Codex: Orks CAD is 2-3 times as good for MANZ. What am I missing?

You are correct. You can use up the elite slot with a unit of Burna Boys (3 of them Meks) riding in the Big Mek Stompa.

tag8833 wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
How necessary do you guys think that a VSG is? I'm trying to figure out what to put in my 1850 (thinking I may try a bike star with buzzgob's custom stompa)

Also, how to people keep that stompa alive? Do you just take a bunch of meks and throw them inside?

I've been working on these questions for myself quite a bit. I'm in the process of testing, but am still far from arriving at a definitive answer. This is my current thinking, and it could be wrong.

>>>How necessary do you guys think that a VSG is?
If you are using a green tide, or Trukks, or non-scouting battle wagons, it is a must for a competitive Ork list. If you aren't using those things, and / or are able to null deploy it becomes less critical. For instance if you are running a Stompa + Bikestar then you can probably do without it. The Stompa allows you to null deploy, and it comes with D6 power fields which are essentially void shields. Additionally, both of those units are aggressive units that are going to want to get to the opponent's deployment zone ASAP. Therefore, a VSG in your zone isn't helping very much.

>>>how to people keep that stompa alive?
This is to me, the biggest challenge of list building around a Big Mek Stompa. It is tempting to put 1,200 points into that one unit and make a magical unkillable stompa. That seems like an obvious way to lose games in a competitive meta. The issue is, some people will have an answer to the Stompa. And the people who have an answer for it, can probably kill it faster than you can repair it. For instance 5 fire dragons can kill a stompa in one turn provided the power fields are down. A Wraith Knight with a Sword can down it quickly if they get lucky. An Imperial Knight can kill it in CC. 12 Tankbustas in Assault kill it in one turn.

Therefore my current thinking is to keep the Stompa relatively cheap. Don't Load up on repair rolls. Spend those points on things that can neutralize threats to the Stompa like Bikes, Deff Koptas, or transports full of Tankbustas, MANZ, or Boyz. I think the obvious way to run a Stompa is with 1 Big Mek with Da Finkin Kap inside with a KFF (I've gone back and forward on the KFF). You've already got Buzzgob. That means 2 4+ repair rolls, one of which has a reroll.

In reality, most armies will recognize the Stompa for what it is. A Deathstar. How do you beat deathstars? Don't shoot at the deathstar. I guess my take on the Meta is this: 5-10% of armies can counter the Stompa faster than you can repair it. 80-90% of armies won't pose much threat to the Stompa. 1-2% of armies pose enough threat to the Stompa that you would need additional repair rolls, but not enough that they can kill it faster than you repair.

I expect those ratios to change as Stompas start Stomping people more regularly, but for right now, that is my read.

Yep pretty much what I've been thinking. I am leaning towards bikestar and stompa, but deciding what to put in the stompa, as well as what else to put in the list. Probably another MSU bike unit and some tankbustas...maybe even put the tankbustas inside the stompa. Not that it needs more close range killyness, but maybe tankbustas with a really reliable delivery system are good. I think I'm gravitating away from MANZ, as they are basically just superseded in their role by the stompa (except that it can't be in two places at once). But even bikestar plus stompa isn't that close to 1850

I've got a feeling that for the price of all that MFF and tax i could almost get a second stompa.

 luke1705 wrote:
maybe even put the tankbustas inside the stompa. Not that it needs more close range killyness, but maybe tankbustas with a really reliable delivery system are good.

Remember the Stompa isn't an assault transport, so Tankbustas that get out are a shooty unit for a full turn before they can assault.

You might want to take a gunwagon or two. AV 13 like the Stompa, and can hold the Tankbustas if you decide you don't want them to ride the Stompa.

Hey guys I could use some tips on how to take on the tau and ad mech. Now I normally run a footslogging list or the dread mob from the ghazzy book. Both lists have a problem even reaching these two enemies. Against the tau the dread mob have been successful though but that was before all their new toys. Now against ad mech I am specifically talking the convocation since that's all I've fought with them before.
Here is what I have:
HQs: Multiple warbosses and big meks, painboy, grotsnick, zagstruck, 2 weidboyz
Troops: About 250 boyz, 40ish gretchin
Elites: 10 kommandos working on converting some boys to these, 6 meganobz, 20 burnas, and snikrot
Fast attack:4 trukks, 30 stormboyz, 15 warbikers, 2 blitza/burna bommas, a dakkajet, 6-9 deff koptas
Heavy support: 20 lootas, 3 battlewagons, 2 mek guns, 5 deff dreads, 16 killa kans, 3 gorkanauts, 2 morkanauts, 5 flash gitz, 2 looted wagons, 2 big squiggoths
LOW: Ghazghkull, 2 stompas, gargantuan squiggoth.

Problems I normally encounter:
With the dread mob I can normally deal some damage before it goes and depending on the invul saves I might make it to combat. Against admech there are normally 2-3 groups of the breachers with grav cannons that demolish this list. Against tau it has faired better in the past since only a few guns could hurt them.
When I footslog it against both these armies even with the tide with a painboy and dawn of war deployment I struggle to make it to the enemy. The stormboys can normally get there but against tau the overwatch kills them and against ad mech they then die the next turn. We do play with objectives and such but people tend to place them all in their deployment zones. I did see some tips to negate that recently that I will try though.
I know the lists I'm bringing are not the best but I would like to try to at least be able to participate with them if I can. I can buy some stuff but not a ton. I've had better luck fighting necrons and eldar than fighting these two armies so I am curious as to what I can do with what I have.

 cranect wrote:

HQs: Multiple warbosses and big meks, painboy, grotsnick, zagstruck, 2 weidboyz
Troops: About 250 boyz, 40ish gretchin
Elites: 10 kommandos working on converting some boys to these, 6 meganobz, 20 burnas, and snikrot
Fast attack:4 trukks, 30 stormboyz, 15 warbikers, 2 blitza/burna bommas, a dakkajet, 6-9 deff koptas
Heavy support: 20 lootas, 3 battlewagons, 2 mek guns, 5 deff dreads, 16 killa kans, 3 gorkanauts, 2 morkanauts, 5 flash gitz, 2 looted wagons, 2 big squiggoths
LOW: Ghazghkull, 2 stompas, gargantuan squiggoth.

havent played against admek, but as for tau, do as many msu fast as you can.
-boyz in trucks, they help harass and hold objectives...grots are good too if just for sitting on things and going to ground
- lone wolf defkoptas, squads arent recommended, they are early game objective campers and attract alot of fire from tau (away from the other boyz), also bring them from outflank only if tau doesn't have intercept
-3 warbikers with nob and pk, bospole is optional, but these guyz are your heavy hitters, if you play your cards right then the tau will shoot at everything else b4 they do these guyz
-minimum zagstruk formation, 3man teams with nob and big choppa...dont pay to much for pk, these guys pop in nice and close to their back lines just to harass his end field units and tie them up in combat

the whole point of msu vrs tau is to prevent concentrated tau fire, as soon as you plop up a large warbikers squad or some other large unit the tau have a nice fat target to markerlight and blast back to mork (tau are anti defstar this edition), with more targets to shoot at then they cant use all those fancy markerlights. while your msu wont win all the combats they get into (trust me, tau can beat back orks when its fairly small squads) youll have so many combats going on that you will have effectively halted his range power.
as for vrs the stromsurge (if your opponent decides to be a git and bring one), then use concentrated mass amount of dakka in the form of rokkets, defkoptas work well for this or if you can convert some boyz to tankbustas (despite being anti vehicle they can still hit mc fairly well, and im guessing also vrs gmc), and make some buggies (mass squads of tl roket buggies that dont worry about ork ld hit tau hard). i have had some success of flashgitz against tau, you get that ap3 and you can pretty much kill anything tau has and win combat with their nob stats (just keep them in a transport for protection, run it up midfield and just beocme a turret, you will get the benefit of bs3 after a turn if the tau isnt bright enough to blast them b4)
just keep those squads small and dont worry about mob rule, at such small man units you wont feel as bad when one runs, you have thos other guyz screaming their heads off barreling into the tau ranks

 cranect wrote:
When I footslog it against both these armies even with the tide with a painboy and dawn of war deployment I struggle to make it to the enemy. The stormboys can normally get there but against tau the overwatch kills them and against ad mech they then die the next turn. We do play with objectives and such but people tend to place them all in their deployment zones. I did see some tips to negate that recently that I will try though.

What you need is lots and lots and lots of solo deff Koptas. Use them to eat overwatch. Use them to tarpit shooty units.

Lobbas work super well (at killing marker lights), but I see that you only have 2 mek guns. Tau has absolutely all the answers against Orks. A Tau player can always list tailor against an Ork player and win. Ad mech is a bit more limited, but also very strong.

One thing that would help you tremendously is a Void shield Generator. Tau and Ad Mek can both knock it down easier than most armies, but it still reduces their firepower significantly.

If you tell me what is in the Ad Mek lists giving you trouble I might be able to help more. I was struggling mightily against Castallan robots before I realized he was playing them wildly wrong (Overwatching, and not taking WS hits when he buffed BS). Breachers with Grav are a problem for Vehicles, but get eaten up by boyz if you can get to them.

A tactic you might consider is outflanking some stuff. You can accomplish this by taking Da Finkin Kap on your warlord. This gives you a pretty good chance to roll Master of Ambush. With master of Ambush you can outflank MANZ in Trukks or Warbikes, or Boyz in Trukks. Getting some stuff in the backfield really helps. It would also let you infiltrat a Green Tide which lets you start 6" closer, but that isn't quite as ideal because you can't WAAAGH every turn.

Well for the admech I've gone against the war convocation list twice with I think it was ultramarine allies but not certain there. It creamed the dread mob with grav and just had enough shooting for the tide. I'll have to make some lobbas for the tau though. Then the other time against ad mech it was 2 onagers, 2 squads of breachers with the plasma cannons, 2 infiltrator and a rustalker squad, a few units of ranger and vangaurds, some castellans with a dominus and a unit of the breachers with the torsion cannons. Theee were some others I think but it didn't end well. That one was closer due to dawn of war and some lucky run rolls for me but against it hammer and anvil I never made it close.

 cranect wrote:
We do play with objectives and such but people tend to place them all in their deployment zones.

we play it the way that you place points first and than roll for side.

 cranect wrote:
Well for the admech I've gone against the war convocation list twice with I think it was ultramarine allies but not certain there. It creamed the dread mob with grav and just had enough shooting for the tide. I'll have to make some lobbas for the tau though. Then the other time against ad mech it was 2 onagers, 2 squads of breachers with the plasma cannons, 2 infiltrator and a rustalker squad, a few units of ranger and vangaurds, some castellans with a dominus and a unit of the breachers with the torsion cannons. Theee were some others I think but it didn't end well. That one was closer due to dawn of war and some lucky run rolls for me but against it hammer and anvil I never made it close.

War Convocation is tough. I haven't played it with my Orks yet. If I had to play it I'll take lots of Tankbustas, and Lobbas are still really good against Skitari and ok against Ad Mech. Your problem is outside of a Stompa, Orks don't really have anything that can survive terribly well against a War Convocation, and a War Convocation has the tools to kill a Stompa depending on how it is built, so you have to build a list with lots of MSU that is prepare to take casualties.

Alright. Well I already knew my objective placement needed work. Ya sadly I don't have a ton of tankbustas. I'm working in that but it is going slowly. Ya the guy who runs the convocation had two groups of either three or five of the guys who can fire 6 shots each in the cult mech book (breachers or the other one I can't remember) so armor goes down real quick when they are bs 5.

 cranect wrote:
Alright. Well I already knew my objective placement needed work. Ya sadly I don't have a ton of tankbustas. I'm working in that but it is going slowly. Ya the guy who runs the convocation had two groups of either three or five of the guys who can fire 6 shots each in the cult mech book (breachers or the other one I can't remember) so armor goes down real quick when they are bs 5.

I'm thinking you are talking about Kataphron Destroyers. They are vulnerable to Lootas. Lootas outrange them wound them on 2's and ignore their armor.

ETA. By the Way, they shoot Grav. Grav can't hurt a Void Shield (Though rule interpretations can differ), so a VSG would keep them from hurting you until they dropped it with their plasma units.

Oh that's good to know. Both of those actually. Ya I've started using my lootas again. They usually underperform but they've been doing work recently.

So many still use nob bikers, but my question is can you easily replace the role of the nob biker squad with defkoptas?
A nob biker with pk is 70 pts
A defkoptas with buzz saw is 55pts.
While a defkopta doesn't have a turbo jink bonus, or a s8 pk, they still charge hit at s7 ap2 (hit n run allows the chance to charge multiple times), have a better gun, and can hop over terrain better then a bike while being faster, defkoptas can be ran single model for lone wolf buzzsaw, or in 5 man squads with hqs (give them zadsnark for 3up jink, Painboy for fnp, warboss for challenges and initiative bonus for the hit n run and you have a decent deathstar.)
I've yet to run defkoptas like this, but I'll let you know when I can.

geargutz wrote:
So many still use nob bikers, but my question is can you easily replace the role of the nob biker squad with defkoptas?

I've run deffkopta deathstar a fair amount. It is good, but not great. I think it is better than Nob Bikers because it is so much chaeper, and can scout.

However neither is better than Ordinary warbikers. Warbikers are cheap enough they outshoot deffkoptas, and they get Scout and become troops (OS) thanks to Zhardsnark. They can be taken in much larger unit that helps for Mob rule, and allow for more multi-assaults. Warbikers with Zhardsnark are really good.

They can't all take powerclaws, and that is for the best, because you'd never want them to. With Zhardsnark, and a DLS warboss, and the Nob the warbiker deathstar has no shortage of killing power. What they lack is survivability. Even with Zhardsnark and a painboy there are lots of things that can kill them with ease. I once killed 45 Warbikes with my Flying Circus nids. Flamers, psychic powers, vector strikes, and just making them take saves. In that game I only lost a single model. Tau look at warbikes and they go away. I saw a Tau friend table someone with at least 45 warbikes on the top of 3 once. And that was with the old Tau codex. Imagine how those armies had fared if instead of 18 points per wound, the Ork players were paying 27 (deffkopta with buzzsaw) or 35 (Nob with PK).

So I've got a squad of grots. Since they don't have mob rule, would it be worth buying the squig hound for that pseudo-mob rule, or just go with the min number of points possible? I'm leaning towards the latter but, then again, I want them for objective camping and they can't exactly do that if they're running away.

The strength of Grots is how cheap they are and their small model size. In a min squad of grots I would run them bare bones but if your taking larger blobs (19 or 29 grot squads) then the hound would be decently worthwhile to take. Grots in general but especially the min cost squads want to take advantage of their small size to hide in terrain while grabbing objectives. Also the virtue of being so cheap in points discourages most enemies from shooting them because its wasting a turn of decent firepower to kill lowly grots.

 Vankraken wrote:
The strength of Grots is how cheap they are and their small model size. In a min squad of grots I would run them bare bones but if your taking larger blobs (19 or 29 grot squads) then the hound would be decently worthwhile to take. Grots in general but especially the min cost squads want to take advantage of their small size to hide in terrain while grabbing objectives. Also the virtue of being so cheap in points discourages most enemies from shooting them because its wasting a turn of decent firepower to kill lowly grots.

Its not uncommon that if I have 5 extra points in my list I throw a Squig Hound on a unit of Grots. The look on my opponent's face when I say "Release the hound", and start picking up grots is great.

I just like taking the hound so that it eats the grots. You know that's how you keep your squigs healthy.

Yeah, I think if I have the extra points lying around, I'll pick up the hound. Otherwise I'll leave it behind. As I see it, if they spent a turn to shoot the grots, they spent a turn wasting their shots.

Managed to get a 1500 pt game in today, HQ and elites were half price. Ran Nob Bikers, grots, three Dakkajet, warboss, painboy, lootas mega mek meganobz and tankbustas. Had allied detachment of ba to mame points but they did nothing as I forgot my flamers would give 4+ to salamanders.

Lootas did OK, not a lot of targets but did stop pods getting line breaker. Tankbustas performed as always, killed a dread and would have helped against leviathan dreadnought, had one mega nob not got a pen through and rolled a 7! Dakkajet killed a few things but nothing noteworthy. Nob Bikers, even when half price still did nothing noteworthy. They got swept by a Culex who they should have killed in Overwatch. FnP means nothing when my opponent rolled 6's for days.

Warbikers always.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Managed to get a 1500 pt game in today, HQ and elites were half price. Ran Nob Bikers, grots, three Dakkajet, warboss, painboy, lootas mega mek meganobz and tankbustas. Had allied detachment of ba to mame points but they did nothing as I forgot my flamers would give 4+ to salamanders.

Lootas did OK, not a lot of targets but did stop pods getting line breaker. Tankbustas performed as always, killed a dread and would have helped against leviathan dreadnought, had one mega nob not got a pen through and rolled a 7! Dakkajet killed a few things but nothing noteworthy. Nob Bikers, even when half price still did nothing noteworthy. They got swept by a Culex who they should have killed in Overwatch. FnP means nothing when my opponent rolled 6's for days.

Warbikers always.

Good story.

Which Bommer is best? Here they are, if you didn't know them.

Dakkajet
Burna-Bommer
Blitza-Bommer

Dakkajet is OK. Not terrible at best.
Burnabomba is bad.
Blitzabomba is not bad at all. AP2 barrage is nothing to sniff at, particularly in Zhadsnark lists.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Dakkajet is OK. Not terrible at best.
Burnabomba is bad.
Blitzabomba is not bad at all. AP2 barrage is nothing to sniff at, particularly in Zhadsnark lists.

What's a Zhadsnark list?
Why is a burna bommer bad?
And what makes the Dakkajet okay?

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
What's a Zhadsnark list?

A list using the Forgeworld HQ Zhardsnark to make warbikers troops. It tends to be a fast list with lots of bikes.

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
Why is a burna bommer bad?

It doesn't do very much damage. S5 bombs that are only AP4 is not very good, and it shoots way less shots that the Dakka Jet .

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
And what makes the Dakkajet okay?

It shoots lots of Twin Linked S6 shots. 9 Shots with 12 on the WAAGH. Also it is BS:3 against many things.

Adding onto what tag8833 said, Zhadsnark also prohibits Deff Dreads, Kills Kanz and more importantly Big Gunz (which will probably be Mek Gunz) so ranged AP2 is hard to find.

The burna bomma is definitely the most situational. Against tau, admech, and to an extent DE and necrons you can get a fair showing out of it with a few missiles and the bombs that all ignore cover. Against anyone with a 3+ save for most of the army it will struggle a lot.

tag8833 wrote:

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
What's a Zhadsnark list?

A list using the Forgeworld HQ Zhardsnark to make warbikers troops. It tends to be a fast list with lots of bikes.

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
Why is a burna bommer bad?

It doesn't do very much damage. S5 bombs that are only AP4 is not very good, and it shoots way less shots that the Dakka Jet .

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
And what makes the Dakkajet okay?

It shoots lots of Twin Linked S6 shots. 9 Shots with 12 on the WAAGH. Also it is BS:3 against many things.

Frozocrone wrote:Adding onto what tag8833 said, Zhadsnark also prohibits Deff Dreads, Kills Kanz and more importantly Big Gunz (which will probably be Mek Gunz) so ranged AP2 is hard to find.

cranect wrote:The burna bomma is definitely the most situational. Against tau, admech, and to an extent DE and necrons you can get a fair showing out of it with a few missiles and the bombs that all ignore cover. Against anyone with a 3+ save for most of the army it will struggle a lot.

Thanks everybody.

I ran blitza bomber a few times and it underperformed for me. Reserves are a bummer. Needs to fly over to land a bomb. It still just kills too few things that are spread out + doesn't ignore cover saves. It does ignore jink though. All in all, i stopped using ork flyers. I find that more boots on the ground generally perform better.

Blitza bomber has a niche role of threatening jinking bikes and ivisible units, however.

Yeah, I've stopped using my planes in competitive lists. I only brought them on Saturday as I struggled to fit in points.

It's a unit that's cool on paper but is generally not too great in action. Kinda opposite to grots!

 koooaei wrote:
It's a unit that's cool on paper but is generally not too great in action. Kinda opposite to grots!

I agree with both of you. I don't run fliers in my competitive lists at all. But I generally include grots.

When I'm trying to tank a game, I usually use my Attack Fightas. Because They suck the worst of all of the fliers, IMO.

This list is performing really well for me. VSG + BullyBoys/Bustas in Trukks is awesome. The Big Mek, Lootas, and a unit of ObjSec Grots ride in the Stompa. The Stompa gets 5 repair rolls and extends the reach of the embarked Grots' Objective Secured scoring.

Wait, how does the blitza-bomma ignore jinks? That would be super useful to use against this Dark Angel player I go up against occasionally.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Wait, how does the blitza-bomma ignore jinks? That would be super useful to use against this Dark Angel player I go up against occasionally.

If I am not mistaken it has something to do with the fact that when it drops a bomb its not making a shooting attack directed at any unit. You can only jink if you are declared as the target of an attack.

Oh damn. Let me scrounge through the rules and see if that's right. If so, holy gak, I finally have an answer to those damn 2+ rerollable jinking bikers. The ravenwings are no real threat, though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, so the rule says "Move the model that is making the bombing run, and then nominate one model that it passed over. Place the blast marker for the bomb so that the central hole is over the target model and... if a Hit! is rolled, the attack is on target and the marker is not moved." So here it actually uses the word target. The jink rule, though, says:

"When a unit with any models with the jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare it will jink. The decision must be made before any To Hit rolls have been made." So there's no restriction for when a jink can be declared, but it does say it has to be selected as a target. However, since the bombing run does say target, it looks like they don't ignore jink saves. At least that's how I'm seein git.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Oh damn. Let me scrounge through the rules and see if that's right. If so, holy gak, I finally have an answer to those damn 2+ rerollable jinking bikers. The ravenwings are no real threat, though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, so the rule says "Move the model that is making the bombing run, and then nominate one model that it passed over. Place the blast marker for the bomb so that the central hole is over the target model and... if a Hit! is rolled, the attack is on target and the marker is not moved." So here it actually uses the word target. The jink rule, though, says:

"When a unit with any models with the jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare it will jink. The decision must be made before any To Hit rolls have been made." So there's no restriction for when a jink can be declared, but it does say it has to be selected as a target. However, since the bombing run does say target, it looks like they don't ignore jink saves. At least that's how I'm seein git.

Jink requires the unit to be targeted. Bomb nominates one model and uses target model, not target unit.

Oh... well, yeah, I guess it does look like that. It's a bit rules-lawyer-y, but so is placing a blast marker so it's hitting a biker unit indirectly so they don't get their jink saves. Yeah, I know what I'm gonna be hitting his bikers with next game.

To me, 'target for a shooting attack' is the critical wording - it could certainly be argued that a bombing run _isn't_ a shooting attack (and therefore jinking doesn't apply), unless there's other wording elsewhere that says otherwise?

 Clang wrote:
To me, 'target for a shooting attack' is the critical wording - it could certainly be argued that a bombing run _isn't_ a shooting attack (and therefore jinking doesn't apply), unless there's other wording elsewhere that says otherwise?

Logically in the case of a bombing run this never happens --> "When a unit with any models with the jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack . . ."

So jink can never be declared.

The conditions required for the jink rule never happen in the case of bombing run.

Hi everyone! Brand new player here. Collecting Orks. Mega excited. I've read the entire thread and gotten loads of awesome information, so thank you all for your contributions here, this has been super helpful!

Anyway, I have seen no mention of a double Stompa list, so I thought I would run this by yall. It's mega cheesy but would be fun to field against TFG with WKs or Tau, probably not against someone you'd like to remain cordial with haha. I'm sure some improvements could be made. So much Dakka!



Thoughts?

I thought you could only take one stompa at a time since it's a LoW if I'm not mistaken.

Anyway, I'm thinking of running my boyz msu style, so I'm planning to go with squads of 20, even if not in a BW. Right now I'm conflicted over how to gear them up. If I put them in a BW I probably won't bother giving them heavy armor, but on foot I can either give them heavy armor or a KFF big mek for the same price. This way I can have multiple 20 ork blobs runnkng around instead of one big 30 ork blob. Is this a solid strategy, or should I stick with max boyz squads?

Only for ITC and similarly restricted events

Fun fact; When a transport carrying ten nobz explodes. Five wounds are inflicted. Two nobz are killed, one is wounded, no morale check is made. With 'eavy armor the likelyhood you won't save any wounds is much less.

Ork boyz, even with 'eavy armor, will lose a perfect 25% of the unit on average, resulting in a morale check before your pinning test.

Maybe so, but I'm not a fan of nob squads. They're way too expensive for what they do, and a horde of boyz do their job about as well for cheaper.

I made a 1500 point list and was wondering what you boyz thought of it.

I've found that I prefer lootaz in small units, it's very easy for them to make their points back in the first couple rounds of shooting. I know the unit of 15 bikes is a fairly big point sink in a 1500 point list, especially with the characters, but I think I have enough threats on the board to justify it, although I could easily drop a few of bikes for something else. I think the list is okay, but probably not as competetive as it could be, so criticism is appreciated.

 Tainted wrote:
I made a 1500 point list and was wondering what you boyz thought of it.

Spoiler:

HQ
Warboss - power klaw, bike, lucky stikk, bosspole
Painboy - bike

Troops
20 Boyz - boss nob with power klaw and bosspole, with 'eavy armour
10 Gretchin

Elite
5 Tankbustaz - 3 bomb squigs, trukk with reinforced ram
3 Meganobz - boss nob with killsaws, trukk with reinforced ram

FA
15 Warbikerz - boss nob with power klaw
Deffkopta - TL rokkit launcha
Deffkopta - TL rokkit launcha

HS
5 Lootaz
5 Lobbaz, each with 2 extra gretchin
Battlewagon - 2 big shootaz, reinforced ram (boyz go in this)

Fortifications
Void shield generator

I've found that I prefer lootaz in small units, it's very easy for them to make their points back in the first couple rounds of shooting. I know the unit of 15 bikes is a fairly big point sink in a 1500 point list, especially with the characters, but I think I have enough threats on the board to justify it, although I could easily drop a few of bikes for something else. I think the list is okay, but probably not as competetive as it could be, so criticism is appreciated.

I like it. You've got some fairly good units. My only suggestion would be to give the Warboss Mega Armour (A Warboss with Mega Armour, Da Lucky Stikk, bosspole is awesome). Otherwise, good list.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that the warboss and painboy go with the bikers, otherwise I would give the boss mega armour.

Has anyone got any advice they can give me for an upcoming (fun) game against Khorne Daemonkin? Slaughtercult and Gorepack etc. It will be a high points game and I'd like to run a melee based list, potentially with the Council of Waaagh, Bully Boyz, Stompa, Dread Mob or a combination of these. I usually run lists with multiple threats rather than a deathstar so I'm not sure of the best way to support one but I'm thinking plenty of Lootas or Tankbustas so I have at least some shooting to combat the D-thirster I might face. If a deathstar isn't the most viable, would the Dread Mob fare any better?

I'd say that's a pretty solid list. Generally I like my lootas to be in slightly larger squads, but that's probably just personal preference.

Also, I've never played against any chaos or daemon faction, so I'm not sure what you'll be up against, but orks can overwhelm a lot of things with sheer numbers, and since chaos like to bring CC to the party too, I'd say load up on max slugga squads, throw your warboss in one of them with DLS and you've got a very scary problem for the chaos to deal with. But, again, I've never played against chaos so this is really general brainstorming more than anything.

The dread mob can cause some trouble if they aren't ready for it. I know most things can't hurt you very easily and anything that can is probably I1. I would take a gork and morkanaut and put the big mek in the fork with the painboy and a mega ff. Unless he is melta spamming everything you will walk up the board and run only the dreads and any kans out of range until everything dies. You can do all that at 1500 points. Past that id try to grab some fast movers and some gretchin to camp back objectives.

If he's running fateweaver for summoning spam, lootas are good. Demons are OK, but not invincible in cc, and they all have that 5++ so generally lack other armour.
They can be fast though, if he's running a screamer star, be prepared for lighting fast attacks in your back field and vector strikes.
I ran a green tide against them last, and it did well. However it's easy to out maneouveur so I wouldn't recommend it.

 Tainted wrote:
I made a 1500 point list and was wondering what you boyz thought of it.

Spoiler:

HQ
Warboss - power klaw, bike, lucky stikk, bosspole
Painboy - bike

Troops
20 Boyz - boss nob with power klaw and bosspole, with 'eavy armour
10 Gretchin

Elite
5 Tankbustaz - 3 bomb squigs, trukk with reinforced ram
3 Meganobz - boss nob with killsaws, trukk with reinforced ram

FA
15 Warbikerz - boss nob with power klaw
Deffkopta - TL rokkit launcha
Deffkopta - TL rokkit launcha

HS
5 Lootaz
5 Lobbaz, each with 2 extra gretchin
Battlewagon - 2 big shootaz, reinforced ram (boyz go in this)

Fortifications
Void shield generator

I've found that I prefer lootaz in small units, it's very easy for them to make their points back in the first couple rounds of shooting. I know the unit of 15 bikes is a fairly big point sink in a 1500 point list, especially with the characters, but I think I have enough threats on the board to justify it, although I could easily drop a few of bikes for something else. I think the list is okay, but probably not as competetive as it could be, so criticism is appreciated.

I would use 15 bikes instead of 10. 15 makes the unit too big and unwieldy. Of course you'll want to get the most out of your painboy, but such a large unit will be a headache to move around.

My suggestion would be to take Zhadsnark as a Warboss for the boyz for a 2+ cover and a PK on ini4. The tankbustas could use some reinforcements as I think 8 works better then 5. My transport of choice for them is a Big Trakk but of course that only works if you have the model. Furthermore I would drop the Void Shield as it is not orky (personal preference) . Instead take some more trukkboyz and put them behind the bikes to provide some cover.

Force field tek is very orky. They just have a different name for it then a void shield but it's still a big part of their army.

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Force field tek is very orky. They just have a different name for it then a void shield but it's still a big part of their army.

Yeah, the Big Mek Stompa and the Void Shield Generator are auto-includes in an ork list that wants to compete.

 Tainted wrote:
I made a 1500 point list and was wondering what you boyz thought of it.

Spoiler:

HQ
Warboss - power klaw, bike, lucky stikk, bosspole
Painboy - bike

Troops
20 Boyz - boss nob with power klaw and bosspole, with 'eavy armour
10 Gretchin

Elite
5 Tankbustaz - 3 bomb squigs, trukk with reinforced ram
3 Meganobz - boss nob with killsaws, trukk with reinforced ram

FA
15 Warbikerz - boss nob with power klaw
Deffkopta - TL rokkit launcha
Deffkopta - TL rokkit launcha

HS
5 Lootaz
5 Lobbaz, each with 2 extra gretchin
Battlewagon - 2 big shootaz, reinforced ram (boyz go in this)

Fortifications
Void shield generator

I've found that I prefer lootaz in small units, it's very easy for them to make their points back in the first couple rounds of shooting. I know the unit of 15 bikes is a fairly big point sink in a 1500 point list, especially with the characters, but I think I have enough threats on the board to justify it, although I could easily drop a few of bikes for something else. I think the list is okay, but probably not as competetive as it could be, so criticism is appreciated.

I also like this list. You might be able to split the 20 boyz and battlewagon into 3 trukk boyz units...you'd need to pull a couple of bikers to give them power klaws, though.

That would give you 7 objective secured units...3 tough, 3 fast. If you play maelstrom you'd have lots of opportunity to snag quick objectives.

I'd advise against trukk boyz. They hurt a lot from the explosion that will inevitably occur on turn two, and a unit of only twelve orks is going to hurt once it has to take morale. The BW is a solid means of transport. I generally put my warboss and his boyz in one.

Trukk boyz could actually be okay with the VSG to protect them on turn 1. They're still going to die as soon as they leave their deployment zone, but they've got a decent chance at surviving long enough to get the boyz across the board, which is really all that's expected of them.

In regards to the list I think I might drop the meganobz and 5 bikes for 2 more units of tankbustaz in trukks and an extra shield on the generator, but if I lose the meganobz I’ll have no AP2 apart from the warboss and 2 boss nobz. That might not be a problem though, because in my experience regular boyz tend to do okay against TEQ units due to the amount of saves they’ll be taking.

OK, I recently got a Deff Dread, and I know it's not a very good unit, but what's the best loadout for it? I'm currently thinking 3 power klaws and 1 rokkit launcha.

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
OK, I recently got a Deff Dread, and I know it's not a very good unit, but what's the best loadout for it? I'm currently thinking 3 power klaws and 1 rokkit launcha.

3 powerklaws and 1 skorcha. The alternative build is 4 powerklaws.

blaktoof wrote:

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
OK, I recently got a Deff Dread, and I know it's not a very good unit, but what's the best loadout for it? I'm currently thinking 3 power klaws and 1 rokkit launcha.

3 powerklaws and 1 skorcha. The alternative build is 4 powerklaws.

Why a skorcha?

Weapon Destroyed results.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Weapon Destroyed results.

I feel like a rokkit launcha will do more than just Weapon Destroyed results.

A skorcha is R: Template S: 5 AP: 4 Assault 1 but a Rokkit Launcha is R: 24" S: 8 AP: 3 Assault 1

I think a rokkit launcha is the better option here.

Matter of preference. Rokkits are less reliable but more damaging.

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Weapon Destroyed results.

I feel like a rokkit launcha will do more than just Weapon Destroyed results.

A skorcha is R: Template S: 5 AP: 4 Assault 1 but a Rokkit Launcha is R: 24" S: 8 AP: 3 Assault 1

I think a rokkit launcha is the better option here.

Not really. 24" is pretty short ranged and with only a single shot at BS2 you're not likely to hit or do enough damage when it does. The skorcha synergizes better with the triple PK setup simply because a deff dread does its best getting into CC, so its better off running most of the time (hence the issue with the RL since it encourages you to shoot it every turn, unlike the skorcha) and helps to clear any infantry you're about to assault, which, unlike the rokkit launcha, is guaranteed to hit if you're within range. Its overwatch is also much better, being D3 autohits.

The only time rokkits are okay IMO on a deffdread is when you're going barebones with no upgrades, so you just swap out the two big shootas for rokkits instead.

 Grimskul wrote:

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Weapon Destroyed results.

I feel like a rokkit launcha will do more than just Weapon Destroyed results.

A skorcha is R: Template S: 5 AP: 4 Assault 1 but a Rokkit Launcha is R: 24" S: 8 AP: 3 Assault 1

I think a rokkit launcha is the better option here.

Not really. 24" is pretty short ranged and with only a single shot at BS2 you're not likely to hit or do enough damage when it does. The skorcha synergizes better with the triple PK setup simply because a deff dread does its best getting into CC, so its better off running most of the time (hence the issue with the RL since it encourages you to shoot it every turn, unlike the skorcha) and helps to clear any infantry you're about to assault, which, unlike the rokkit launcha, is guaranteed to hit if you're within range. Its overwatch is also much better, being D3 autohits.

The only time rokkits are okay IMO on a deffdread is when you're going barebones with no upgrades, so you just swap out the two big shootas for rokkits instead.

Thanks! I'll do a skorcha and 3 power klaws.

Yep although I'm late I agree with the skorcha and 3 pks.

4 S10 PKs is really fun, though...

 JimOnMars wrote:
4 S10 PKs is really fun, though...

Indeed

JimOnMars wrote:4 S10 PKs is really fun, though...

blaktoof wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
4 S10 PKs is really fun, though...

Indeed

I want to have some ranged weaponry so it can have something to shoot as its closing in.

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:

JimOnMars wrote:4 S10 PKs is really fun, though...

blaktoof wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
4 S10 PKs is really fun, though...

Indeed

I want to have some ranged weaponry so it can have something to shoot as its closing in.

I personally take skorcha and 3 powerklaws. I have a few older metal deff dredz that are 2 Big Shootas, and 2 powerklaws.

Out of the load outs I think the 3 powerklaw+skorcha is superior for reasons posted above by others.

The skorcha gives you some overwatch protection if someone is going to try and charge you to deny your attacks, or tarpit you.

The skorcha gives you the ability to take on a large unit better, as you can drop a template on them before charging (S5 AP4) in which will possibly kill as many models as the deff dread can kill in one to two assault rounds for horde type units (guardsmen, gaunts, etc). Of course don't get overzealous and Skorch something killing enough models to make it hard to charge in As you will likely want to run most rounds if you are outside of assault range, your shooting would have been snap firing anyways. You cannot snap fire a skorcha, but snap fired BS and Rokkits are hitting on 6s. Which is pretty bad. Its better to have the skorcha over the other shooting weapons on a deff dread because you are more likely to kill anything with it than with the other weapons during the course of a game.

blaktoof wrote:

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:

JimOnMars wrote:4 S10 PKs is really fun, though...

blaktoof wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
4 S10 PKs is really fun, though...

Indeed

I want to have some ranged weaponry so it can have something to shoot as its closing in.

I personally take skorcha and 3 powerklaws. I have a few older metal deff dredz that are 2 Big Shootas, and 2 powerklaws.

Out of the load outs I think the 3 powerklaw+skorcha is superior for reasons posted above by others.

The skorcha gives you some overwatch protection if someone is going to try and charge you to deny your attacks, or tarpit you.

The skorcha gives you the ability to take on a large unit better, as you can drop a template on them before charging (S5 AP4) in which will possibly kill as many models as the deff dread can kill in one to two assault rounds for horde type units (guardsmen, gaunts, etc). Of course don't get overzealous and Skorch something killing enough models to make it hard to charge in As you will likely want to run most rounds if you are outside of assault range, your shooting would have been snap firing anyways. You cannot snap fire a skorcha, but snap fired BS and Rokkits are hitting on 6s. Which is pretty bad. Its better to have the skorcha over the other shooting weapons on a deff dread because you are more likely to kill anything with it than with the other weapons during the course of a game.

Okay, so if I charge, I can't fire the skorcha?

No you can - it might just make it harder because of if you kill models with the Skorcha, you increase the charge distance.

You can somewhat mitigate that with 'Ere we go!' from the Dread Mob formation.

Now on Killa Kanz, you don't take Skorchas because they actually have a chance of hitting things with their longer-range weapons. Of course, it's mostly because you always take Grotzookas on Kanz.

Yeah. The only way I'd consider running kans is to have all three carrying grotzookas. That would give me a total of 6 blast templates, basically using them as a walking firing platform. However, iirc, the main thing keeping me away from that is their poor range and general fragility.

My local scene is starting its competitive series of tournaments. We are using 1850 ITC? rules. (Personally not a big fan of using someone else rules, but I guess this is how its going down) So I guess my list needs approval for each event since the list of LoW from ITC rules just says STOMPA not 'Kustom' STOMPA. Now if you talk to Forge World, they will tell you that the Kustom Stompa and the Stompa should be treated as the same thing. Below is the list I'm wanting to play:

HQ:
Zhadsnark (Seriously, who does not use this guy, lol)
Painboy on a bike
Big Mek with KFF

Troops
2x 20 'ard boyz with a Nob BP, PK
1x 7 warbiker unit with a Nob PK

Fast Attack
3 different units of 1 deffkoptas (Mainly for objective grabbing and overwatch interference)

Heavy support
2x battle wagons with deff rolla and a big shoota


LoW:
Klaw Frenzy Stompa! with power fields, super charger, flambelcha and 3 big shoota

If you have never played the Klaw Frenzy stompa, here what you should now. First, you do not have a lot of range weapons as you have to give up your gun arm for another melee weapon, called a Titan Close Combat weapon. IA: Apocalypse says a Titan Close Combat weapon gives you +3 to your Attack stat. (in this stompa's case, that is a +6) Frenzy Stompa's gain an additional 3 attacks. Then you have +1 for two CC weapons and +1 for charging, for a grand total of 15! (base 4 +6+3+1+1=15) Now the Super charger, which is a Klaw frenzy only upgrade, doubles your charge range! (2d6 x 2). You might be like this is awesome, crazy, WTF? and etc. This is all to make up for the fact you are missing your gun arms and using melee as your primary weapons. You can easy make a first turn charge with him. Kind of want to see the look on the guy's face when I roll a 10 and then double that to 20" for a charge from the center of the table on turn one. Also, if the Klaw stompa kills a vehicle in the assault he then gets to through it as if he had a lifta dropa. (if you scatter right, you can throw the vehicle into another unit or vehicle, )

Something for us to talk about, because the Stompa is I1 and his stomp attacks are at I1 does that mean you get to still stomp after you destroy whatever you are in combat with, with all those D str attacks? Personally, I believe the answer is yes, because you are still resolving the stompa's attacks and we only check for the enemy at the beginning of the initiative step, but I could be wrong.

Now the rest of the army is your basic cult of speed army. Zhadsnark will lead the bikes in the long head-on charge accross the field. If you flat out the bike unit has a 2+ jink save. You can make this even more effective when you put Zhadsnark in the front. So 2+ LOS then a 2+ jink. (FNP 5+) Means you have to roll 1 and then another 1 for Zhadsnark to need a FNP roll. 1/36 chance of rolling snake eyes. The units of 20 boyz are the main assault force. Dumping 20 'ard boyz right in front of the enemy can be pretty scary. Maybe the stompa will leave something for them to kill. The deffkoptas job are to grab objectives and run overwatch interference/ Screening. Its a nifty little trick where you declare the assault from the deffkopta first and then another unit, then your opponent has to choose overwatch the deffkopta of overwatch whatever is assaulting them, but if the deffkopta makes it you can not fire overwatch at the second unit assaulting you because the unit is engaged already.

Thoughts my fellow Warbosses?

Assault ends when either all the initiative steps have been taken, or when one side has been completely destroyed. I can't imagine your stomps would carry over out of combat once the enemy has been destroyed. Believe me, as a melee-heavy warboss, I would love for wounds to spill over to nearby enemies, but that's just not the case.

Also, I'd get rid of the deff rolla on battlewagons. They used to be good, but they're pretty garbage now. They only get their +d3 attacks when an enemy model tries a death or glory attack, and not many units are going to try that against your 14 front armor. The worst part is that it no longer works on vehicles, which was the whole point of the damn thing. Just take the reinforced rams instead. They're cheaper, give you the higher front armor when ramming, and get you the reroll.

Also, that stompa sounds terrifying, but you really might want to look into approving that with the tournament. I don't know how they'd rule that.

I might look into putting an extra HQ with the 'ard boyz, even something as cheap as a naked mek. PK nobs are scary, but not so much in challenges due to their init. Having a naked mek to eat challenges helps a lot.

Also, Zhadsnark is a great model in general. Heck, I'd look into pumping a few more bikers in there just to make it all the scarrier.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Assault ends when either all the initiative steps have been taken, or when one side has been completely destroyed. I can't imagine your stomps would carry over out of combat once the enemy has been destroyed. Believe me, as a melee-heavy warboss, I would love for wounds to spill over to nearby enemies, but that's just not the case.

Also, I'd get rid of the deff rolla on battlewagons. They used to be good, but they're pretty garbage now. They only get their +d3 attacks when an enemy model tries a death or glory attack, and not many units are going to try that against your 14 front armor. The worst part is that it no longer works on vehicles, which was the whole point of the damn thing. Just take the reinforced rams instead. They're cheaper, give you the higher front armor when ramming, and get you the reroll.

Also, that stompa sounds terrifying, but you really might want to look into approving that with the tournament. I don't know how they'd rule that.

I might look into putting an extra HQ with the 'ard boyz, even something as cheap as a naked mek. PK nobs are scary, but not so much in challenges due to their init. Having a naked mek to eat challenges helps a lot.

Also, Zhadsnark is a great model in general. Heck, I'd look into pumping a few more bikers in there just to make it all the scarrier.

If I remember right, you can actually stomp thing out side of close combat. The first small blast in touch with you, but the next one is with in 3" and the next one is another 3" away. I'll have to double check, but from what I remember it is possible. Yeah I hope they are cool with it. They were last year, but they where not use ITC rules and FAQ.

I have some left over points I might do the whole mek thing.

I broke out my rulebook, and it looks like you are right. It doesn't actually say whether it has to be done during a current combat, just that it occurs in the fight sub-phase at init 1. But since the blasts are scattering so far, I'd say that maybe it works? I'd clear that with the TO as well.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
I broke out my rulebook, and it looks like you are right. It doesn't actually say whether it has to be done during a current combat, just that it occurs in the fight sub-phase at init 1. But since the blasts are scattering so far, I'd say that maybe it works? I'd clear that with the TO as well.

That is how we played it last year at this event. My stompa got into cc with a reverent and we were stomping everything around us. It was kind of funny. Basically how giant robots should fight!

Stomps can't be used on gargantuans or shv

 Frozocrone wrote:
Stomps can't be used on gargantuans or shv

Yes, but that doesn't mean I can't stomp that near by x unit that is not a GMC or SH. Provided I get enough stomp attacks to reach them.

Forgive me for asking this if it's obvious, but theoretically I could take multiple Ork Horde detachments if I wanted, correct? So if I wanted to take 3 Ork Horde detachments, I could field nine HQ's and nine troops. Though I suppose I would be better off fielding 4 CAD's with 8 HQ's and 8 troops minimum, with Objective Secured.

Of course, if you're going to throw that many points into HQ's, might as well invest in the Council of the Waaagh! Obviously you can't take multiples of that formation since it contains unique IC's.

Just brainstorming. I'm aware that tournaments often put restrictions on the number of detachments you can field. It's fun thinking about a deathstar of HQ's. An Ork can dream, right?