I agree that deffkoptas are really good, but I just think they look too dinky to be really orky looking and after a google image search, apparently the deffkopta on the GW page and in the codex is a completely random model that's only sold on the site and the actual models sold in store might actually look kind of badass?
The first is the official model that is currently available. It hasn't been changed since the early 90's.
The second is the Assault on Black Reach 'snap-together' model that was sold in the... 5th? Edition Starter Box Set. I don't know if they're sold new anymore, but there were enough AoBR sets sold (because they were pretty awesome sets) that there's a ton of those Koptas floating around- and most Orks that scratchbuild base them on those guys.
The second really looks like a serious vehicle that can cause some damage. The first looks like an Ork contraption that wants the Ork to fly up to his opponent and give them a good smack in the gob.
The tankbustas love shooting at AV14...using their tankhunter reroll. 1 in 9 to glance for each busta...take 12+ bustas (and luck) and you have a good chance of killing it in 2 turns.
Anything AV12 or less with 3 hullpoints is dead.
If they can get into combat against a vehicle, the WS4 Meltabombs (ST8 AV1 tankhunter+armorbane) will kill anything in the game. I'm not sure of any other unit that has meltabombs on each model in the unit...anyone know of any unit like that?
Lootas in units of 5 work fine. I didn't believe it too, but then I tried 6 units of 5 lootas and they worked realy good. Tankbustas are also great. Give'em a trukk and run them into the next vehicle.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Lootas aren't supposed to move and are kept in deep protection due to their 48" range. I'm still on the fence about tankbustas. They're perfect for anti-meq at range, and since they all have S8 rockets they can do work against anything with armor 12 or less, while 13 is pushing it, and I wouldn't even bother against 14. Issue is, they're going to be a huge target, and unlike lootas, they don't have the range to stay deep in the pocket, but like lootas, they're extremely squishy. If I did take them, I'd have them target tough, scary units, and leave the tankhunting to my meganobz. The great part about tankbustas though is that they can do both anti-meq and anti-vehicle, while meganobz are much better at the latter than the former. I'm definitely going to look into getting some in the future, probably dropping them in a BW armed to the teeth with rockets.
You realise that Tankbustas have Tankhunter Melta Bombs right? I'd throw them at any vehicle, heck even the toughest vehicle. Sure, you might lose them all, but when 65 points blows up 250 points of Land Raider, you know you've got good mileage out of them. I've thrown them against the AV14 Leviathan Dreadnought (unit of 9) and they came out on top, while there was a smoking crater where the Dread was.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Lootas aren't supposed to move and are kept in deep protection due to their 48" range. I'm still on the fence about tankbustas. They're perfect for anti-meq at range, and since they all have S8 rockets they can do work against anything with armor 12 or less, while 13 is pushing it, and I wouldn't even bother against 14. Issue is, they're going to be a huge target, and unlike lootas, they don't have the range to stay deep in the pocket, but like lootas, they're extremely squishy. If I did take them, I'd have them target tough, scary units, and leave the tankhunting to my meganobz. The great part about tankbustas though is that they can do both anti-meq and anti-vehicle, while meganobz are much better at the latter than the former. I'm definitely going to look into getting some in the future, probably dropping them in a BW armed to the teeth with rockets.
You realise that Tankbustas have Tankhunter Melta Bombs right? I'd throw them at any vehicle, heck even the toughest vehicle. Sure, you might lose them all, but when 65 points blows up 250 points of Land Raider, you know you've got good mileage out of them. I've thrown them against the AV14 Leviathan Dreadnought (unit of 9) and they came out on top, while there was a smoking crater where the Dread was.
I was talking about their shooting since CC is our general answer to armor anyway.
If you want some Assault on Black Reach Deff Koptas, check Ebay. They can go cheap. I've picked up a ton of them for around $3 per. I have 9 that I regularly use, and 9 more I'm planning to convert into Warbuggies.
So I have an apocalypse game in a few months and my orks are being "hired" by the imperium. Here is what is was thinking of running in general since everyone only gets 5000 points.
Snikrots red skull kommandos max squads with pk, Bp, and 2 burnas.
5 dakkajets in the karnage skwadron.
The militarum tempestus air and ground formations.
Basically ill start off the board and bring my reserves on wherever people need turn two. Except for carnage skwadron which since they have said flyers can come on turn one they will pick a SHW or GC and kamikaze it to death hopefully before it can do anything.
Well I had my first 2000pt game against Eldar today and good god I see why people call them OP. What in the hell hope do we have to beat Eldar? All I can see is more battlewagons and hope we can get into CC in time.
won another 2 games today with the list posted previously.
1 against a BA player, 1500 - stormraven, vet squad, melta squads, drop pods, etc..
He conceded start of turn 2. He dropped in to try and pop my transports but lucky rolls for me and unlucky for him didn't even glance one I believe. Boys/Manz made quick work of them with the lootas killing his back line of tanks.
Dark Eldar player - archon, wyches, raiders, incubi, helion, beastmaster and the heavy troop choice with wings.
This could of went either way, went full 7 rounds and it was always very close neither of us being able to capture many of our objectives until turn 5.
I ended up winning 13-12 with no d3 cards for either of us.
Tinkrr wrote: So I got something cool you Orkies might like, I got the top placing Ork list from the ITC in my list data base.
It's actually pretty cool and while I'm not super familiar with Orks it does look like it has some different stuff in it than usual. They're running the Bikes for sure, and the cheap Stompa, but how common are Lootas and Copters?
Deff Koptas are the best unit in the Ork Codex, and super common in Ork Tourney lists. They win games like crazy. Lootas are ok but have some problems. They go super well with a Void Shield Generator. No Cheap stompa in the top Ork player's list. He did a video with Blue Table Painting showing off his army:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PaghCY_1u0
I was hoping it would be a bit more unique. The only unique thing about it is that he is walking his tankbustas. Otherwise it is bikestar + Trukk Boyz.
He told me that the meta was somewhat unprepared for the type of list he was running, and they tended to put most of their shots into his bikestar. Congrats to Rich for doing so well.
I run my Tankbustas on foot and that usually works pretty well with Bikes in front of them and Mek Gunz behind them. I give the TB Nob a Big Choppa just in case something gets close to them.
optrgrow wrote: won another 2 games today with the list posted previously.
1 against a BA player, 1500 - stormraven, vet squad, melta squads, drop pods, etc..
He conceded start of turn 2. He dropped in to try and pop my transports but lucky rolls for me and unlucky for him didn't even glance one I believe. Boys/Manz made quick work of them with the lootas killing his back line of tanks.
Dark Eldar player - archon, wyches, raiders, incubi, helion, beastmaster and the heavy troop choice with wings.
This could of went either way, went full 7 rounds and it was always very close neither of us being able to capture many of our objectives until turn 5.
I ended up winning 13-12 with no d3 cards for either of us.
That and a few more tweaks would satisfy my desire of new rules. So long as we are on post 2015 power level...would hate to be on Eldar level and lose the saying 'everyone will love you for playing Orks'.
If you want some Assault on Black Reach Deff Koptas, check Ebay. They can go cheap. I've picked up a ton of them for around $3 per. I have 9 that I regularly use, and 9 more I'm planning to convert into Warbuggies.
How do you use your deffkoptas? I like the models but have never used them since they compete for bike and buggy slots.
Vitali Advenil wrote: I agree that deffkoptas are really good, but I just think they look too dinky to be really orky looking and after a google image search, apparently the deffkopta on the GW page and in the codex is a completely random model that's only sold on the site and the actual models sold in store might actually look kind of badass?
I like the Assault on Black reach models better for the deffkoptas. I was really hoping that when the orks got updated, GW would have released a kit for them. There is an apoc formation that is 9+ models. Its awesome. There is also another apoc formation with the warkopta. I believe its two warkoptas and 12 deffkoptas.
I like the Assault on Black reach models better for the deffkoptas. I was really hoping that when the orks got updated, GW would have released a kit for them. There is an apoc formation that is 9+ models. Its awesome. There is also another apoc formation with the warkopta. I believe its two warkoptas and 12 deffkoptas.
Sounds like fun. Where can I find these formations?
I like the Assault on Black reach models better for the deffkoptas. I was really hoping that when the orks got updated, GW would have released a kit for them. There is an apoc formation that is 9+ models. Its awesome. There is also another apoc formation with the warkopta. I believe its two warkoptas and 12 deffkoptas.
Sounds like fun. Where can I find these formations?
The deffkopta formation is in the apocalypse reloaded book. The warkopta formation is in the back of the IA:8 book. The group I play apocalypses with we have a house rule that as long as something has not been reprinted and the rules still function in the current rule set you can use it.
Singleton Mosby wrote: How do you use your deffkoptas? I like the models but have never used them since they compete for bike and buggy slots.
They are my utility players. I use them for all sorts of things. I always run them in squads of 1 unless I'm doing a Deffkopta star with Zhardsnark, and lucky stik boss and a Painboy on Bike. I always give them rokkits.
1) Score Objectives and win games. They are super mobile, and generally fairly low target priority. They can outflank, and get most places on the board.
2) Eat Overwatch. Ever faced Tau? 1 Deff Kopta can make that game a lot easier.
3) Tarpit. 1 Deff Kopta can tarpit a Riptide for a while. It can hold up a unit of space marines for most of the game.
4) Harassers. "Do you want to Jink?". Nobody wants to Jink a single Rokkit, so you can sometimes cause damage results on vehicles or pick of special weapons.
5) Movement Blocking. Because I generally don't care if they live or Die, I can stand 2 of them right in Front of an Imperial Knight, and make it take the long way around.
6) Mind Games. There are situations where I can get the opponents so fixated on killing one Deff Kopta that they ignore more important things.
7) Warp Spiders. Warp Spiders suck. Generally you've got to sacrifice some shooting at them, before you can do any damage with shooting. If I'm going to sacrifice shooting, something like a Trukk or Deff Kopta is fairly easy to sacrifice.
Chiming in, just wanted to update the thread. Another victory for the list I have posted, this time against a DE/Eldar list (9 jetbikes between the 2 armies).
This one was over turn 2 as well, popped my battlewagon with Small D blasts from his wraithguard, got out and was able to call a waghh and charge him next turn.
Scored 20(1 d3) points to his 6ish, he stopped keeping count after 2 turns.
Game went 6 turns but more me chasing him down/wearing his archon down in CQC than anything. He did not make many saves (very unlucky rolls on his side)
The list is still yet to lose. I fear the day when I come up against a wraithknight list or something with super heavies (so far has been casual/casual competitive games).
It's so nice to hear the Greenskins beating up the panzees
Just a quick note for you all, there is a new WD coming out with some Ork models. Don't know if anything is in, but at least Grukk 'Face-Rippa' is coming out in a blister pack (maybe we will see plastic Deffkoptas hit the shelves too).
Glitcha wrote: I think I've now posted on every facebook feed about this, but I would much rather have Wazdakka and cult of speed!
most definitely! Also, any update on that new "for toy stores" line? The Vedros boxed set? I saw orky stuffs in there...but it looked largely like AOBR models?
Wazdakka would be swell. For the Start Collecting: Orks box set, I would have liked to see Deffkoptas and Warbikers. But I guess Deff Dreads are more iconic, much like how the Tyranid one has Warriors which almost never see the light of day.
Did the rumored contents drop yet? or am I too dense to find them?
Also wanted to report that I had a small game last saturday with my orks against Admech and I barely lost. I was playing the deathworld suppliment and lost more orks to dangerous terrain than to skitarii shooting, but it was still a fun time to be had!
My ork Party Wagon squad still holds strong! 17 ard boys, a mekboy, painboy and lucky stick warboss proves to be almost unmoveable most games and It's fun as hell to play.
Singleton Mosby wrote: How do you use your deffkoptas? I like the models but have never used them since they compete for bike and buggy slots.
They are my utility players. I use them for all sorts of things. I always run them in squads of 1 unless I'm doing a Deffkopta star with Zhardsnark, and lucky stik boss and a Painboy on Bike. I always give them rokkits.
1) Score Objectives and win games. They are super mobile, and generally fairly low target priority. They can outflank, and get most places on the board.
2) Eat Overwatch. Ever faced Tau? 1 Deff Kopta can make that game a lot easier.
3) Tarpit. 1 Deff Kopta can tarpit a Riptide for a while. It can hold up a unit of space marines for most of the game.
4) Harassers. "Do you want to Jink?". Nobody wants to Jink a single Rokkit, so you can sometimes cause damage results on vehicles or pick of special weapons.
5) Movement Blocking. Because I generally don't care if they live or Die, I can stand 2 of them right in Front of an Imperial Knight, and make it take the long way around.
6) Mind Games. There are situations where I can get the opponents so fixated on killing one Deff Kopta that they ignore more important things.
7) Warp Spiders. Warp Spiders suck. Generally you've got to sacrifice some shooting at them, before you can do any damage with shooting. If I'm going to sacrifice shooting, something like a Trukk or Deff Kopta is fairly easy to sacrifice.
Thanks for the explanation. However, why are Koptas better then buggies at this role?
My ork Party Wagon squad still holds strong! 17 ard boys, a mekboy, painboy and lucky stick warboss proves to be almost unmoveable most games and It's fun as hell to play.
Sounds like a wonderful unit. I'll give it a try once. Altough I have to say it is kinda expensive at 500+ points.
I hope the new formations are useful. I never did get my hands on the Sanctus Reach box, or the other supplements, so having all those previously released formations in one supplement is kind of nice.
I hope the new formations are useful. I never did get my hands on the Sanctus Reach box, or the other supplements, so having all those previously released formations in one supplement is kind of nice.
have the formations been leaked at all yet? Dying to see the new ones and if we got an ork-curion!
Ya if its just the ghazzy and red waaagh books then it will be lame. I already have all those so if it just adds them and doesn't give 3 actually new formations I will be annoyed.
Frozocrone wrote: Apparently it's three new ones, but if it's simply Ghazkull, Red Waaagh and Storm in one book I won't be impressed
Yeah its just the ghaz suppliment with the formations from Red waagh and storm in the same book. No changes to any of the formations just reprinting them. Darn, I already own all of those.
In other news, the Great Chilli-waaagh is getting ready to happen in my state. Its a massive apocalypse game. 4 of us in the state own the largest ork armies and we do this every year. We challenge our local community to a Orks vs *insert other faction here*. Last year it was orks vs force of chaos. It was a close game. We lost by a single point. I don't remember the score. Now the reason we call it the chilli-waagh is because the OT for this makes some amazing chilli and we use eat, drink, and talk smack all day long while we play. Personally, favorite moment last year was when my stompa gaze of morked Angrath in the face. Rolled a 6 on the D table and sent him back to the warp.
Grukk is up in the rumour thread. No change I can see from Red Waaagh campaign.
Still 4+ armor, FNP with PK, 3w and usual gubbins.
Apparently it's three new ones, but if it's simply Ghazkull, Red Waaagh and Storm in one book I won't be impressed
Yeah its just the ghaz suppliment with the formations from Red waagh and storm in the same book. No changes to any of the formations just reprinting them. Darn, I already own all of those.
Im pretty sure its 3 new ones as well as Ghaz, RW and Storm.
The leaked pics show 3 new formations, and 3 formations reprinted from RW & HotW (out of 5). It looks like the updated Waaagh! Ghazghkull will not include any of the formations from Stormclaw. Place your bets!
Also, the Start Collecting box with the Deff Dread says it comes with a Pain Mob datasheet. Whatever that is.
Singleton Mosby wrote: How do you use your deffkoptas? I like the models but have never used them since they compete for bike and buggy slots.
They are my utility players. I use them for all sorts of things. I always run them in squads of 1 unless I'm doing a Deffkopta star with Zhardsnark, and lucky stik boss and a Painboy on Bike. I always give them rokkits.
1) Score Objectives and win games. They are super mobile, and generally fairly low target priority. They can outflank, and get most places on the board.
2) Eat Overwatch. Ever faced Tau? 1 Deff Kopta can make that game a lot easier.
3) Tarpit. 1 Deff Kopta can tarpit a Riptide for a while. It can hold up a unit of space marines for most of the game.
4) Harassers. "Do you want to Jink?". Nobody wants to Jink a single Rokkit, so you can sometimes cause damage results on vehicles or pick of special weapons.
5) Movement Blocking. Because I generally don't care if they live or Die, I can stand 2 of them right in Front of an Imperial Knight, and make it take the long way around.
6) Mind Games. There are situations where I can get the opponents so fixated on killing one Deff Kopta that they ignore more important things.
7) Warp Spiders. Warp Spiders suck. Generally you've got to sacrifice some shooting at them, before you can do any damage with shooting. If I'm going to sacrifice shooting, something like a Trukk or Deff Kopta is fairly easy to sacrifice.
Thanks for the explanation. However, why are Koptas better then buggies at this role?
Definitely. Koptas are faster, and can move over intervening models. They are generally more survivable, though buggies are cheaper. Deff Koptas can get toe in Ruins, and aren't quite as threatened by Dangerous Terrain.
But, the biggest reason Deff Koptas are better than Buggies is they can assault. That is what #2 and 3 are about.
In the OP, the Characters Badrukk, Grotsnik, Zagstruk and Snikrot were not listed. Well, here they are! We'll use the same code listed in the OP.
Green=Da Best Blue=Very Good Yellow=Average Red=Below Average (don't take in a competitive list)
Mad Dok Grotsnik: One Scalpel Short Of A Medpack means he and any unit he joins has Fearless and Rampage. The only reason why he's not green is because he can't leave the unit until he's the last man standing.
Kaptin Badrukk: His gun is likely to kill him, and he's got the cost of 5 Flash Gitz.
Boss Zagstruk: While I've never actually played him, the only reason why he's not red is because of Da Vulcha's Klaws. Hammer of Wrath attacks with those klaws are made at Str 8 AP 2.
Boss Snikrot: An excellent way to put Kommando's exactly where you need them to be. Underwhelming on his own, when joined to a large squad of Kommandos, he becomes a force multiplier, bringing in his unit in the opponent backfield, and acting as an Anvil for your enemies to be crushed upon.
The gorkamorka trukk is making a comeback possibly in the later part of the upcoming year.
Not really directly a tactics item, but the gorkamorka trukk is about 1.5" shorter in length, and about 1" shorter in height than the hull of the current trukk.
Glitcha wrote: In other news, the Great Chilli-waaagh is getting ready to happen in my state. Its a massive apocalypse game. 4 of us in the state own the largest ork armies and we do this every year. We challenge our local community to a Orks vs *insert other faction here*. Last year it was orks vs force of chaos. It was a close game. We lost by a single point. I don't remember the score. Now the reason we call it the chilli-waagh is because the OT for this makes some amazing chilli and we use eat, drink, and talk smack all day long while we play. Personally, favorite moment last year was when my stompa gaze of morked Angrath in the face. Rolled a 6 on the D table and sent him back to the warp.
Thinking about it now, if GreenTide is in the book, I would like an errata that says Ghaz can be taken in place of a Warboss. It's weird how SM can exchange characters but not Orks.
Having Ghaz with a permanent 2++ turn two onwards would make him way more viable imo. Even in the Codex formation.
Frozocrone wrote: Thinking about it now, if GreenTide is in the book, I would like an errata that says Ghaz can be taken in place of a Warboss. It's weird how SM can exchange characters but not Orks.
Having Ghaz with a permanent 2++ turn two onwards would make him way more viable imo. Even in the Codex formation.
Why can't you? I used Ghaz as my warboss in an Ork Horde...oh, damn...I think I goofed...you can *only* take what's in that formation to get its rules...and when they say "warboss", they *mean* a Vanilla warboss only? hm...looks like that apocalypse game a month and a half ago should have gone very differently...
I should have known that was too good to be true. I could ask the lads to houserule it, but I don't imagine they'll go for it (and maybe best I just keep that blunder a bit hush hush).
But seriously...that blows. I didn't even use Ghaz himself in any direct measures in that game - I literally paid the points for him solely because he starts with Waaagh as his warlord trait and doesn't have to roll on the warlord trait table (thus not only declaring a Waaagh every turn after the 1st, but also conferring fearless on everything in that formation) - so I took Ghaz specifically to eliminate the problem of mob rule. Sigh, there goes that method.
The gorkamorka trukk is making a comeback possibly in the later part of the upcoming year.
Not really directly a tactics item, but the gorkamorka trukk is about 1.5" shorter in length, and about 1" shorter in height than the hull of the current trukk.
The box art has MOCK UP stamped all over it. It's not confirmed if the Gorkamorka trukks are coming back yet (I think).
The gorkamorka trukk is making a comeback possibly in the later part of the upcoming year.
Not really directly a tactics item, but the gorkamorka trukk is about 1.5" shorter in length, and about 1" shorter in height than the hull of the current trukk.
The box art has MOCK UP stamped all over it. It's not confirmed if the Gorkamorka trukks are coming back yet (I think).
I agree it is Mock Up art, but if they plan to put a trukk in they still have the gorkamorka molds.
Given they are making snap fit models for a younger target market I would think the trukk would be more like the gorkamorka one than the current model.
If the old size trukk returns, grots can basically give it 50% cover.
I agree it is Mock Up art, but if they plan to put a trukk in they still have the gorkamorka molds.
Given they are making snap fit models for a younger target market I would think the trukk would be more like the gorkamorka one than the current model.
If the old size trukk returns, grots can basically give it 50% cover.
If the old Trukks come back, I'll build a Stompa with Gorkamorka Trukks for feet. Aka, rollerskates.
I agree it is Mock Up art, but if they plan to put a trukk in they still have the gorkamorka molds.
Given they are making snap fit models for a younger target market I would think the trukk would be more like the gorkamorka one than the current model.
If the old size trukk returns, grots can basically give it 50% cover.
If the old Trukks come back, I'll build a Stompa with Gorkamorka Trukks for feet. Aka, rollerskates.
I love the old trukks, I have gotten two of them and use them every game with me orks! Their quite easy to carry around.
Just realized that the Pain Mob formation from the Start Collecting box means we can have Painboyz without using up HQ slots. Granted, it's a huge tax but yeah. Hopefully there is a new formation where we can take Painboyz en masse.
KaptinBadrukk wrote: Boss Snikrot: Mork's teeth strike at Str 5 AP 5. If you do use him, put him with a well-equipped unit of kommandos.
I disagree with this review. Boss Snikrot can be awesome in the right list. It has nothing to do with him personally. Think of Snikrot as a Anvil. The rest of your army is the hammer. He arrives with a max squad of Kommandos from any board edge (Including your opponent's), and he comes in behind the units you want to kill, and on the turn they arrive they have shrouded, so if you can get a few in ruins, you are talking a 2+ cover save. The reason he didn't impress you, is you thought of him as a unit. I don't. I think of him as a Transport. He transport a max squad of Kommandos to exactly where I need them to be. After he has done his job, he just eats a challenge for the Nob, or I throw him away to tarpit / clean up something he can deal with by himself. I've even used him to eat Tau overwatch. This is how I would write it up:
Boss Snikrot: An excellent way to put Kommando's exactly where you need them to be. Underwhelming on his own, when joined to a large squad of Kommandos, he becomes a force multiplier, bringing in his unit in the opponent backfield, and acting as an Anvil for your enemies to be crushed upon.
I've run Snikrot + kommandoes and they were underwhelming for a price. However, i got lucky and one-shot a landraider with a pk nob. Than died to an explosion and were finished off with a couple of bolters.
The best way to run kommandoes for me was min squad with 2 specials.
KaptinBadrukk wrote: Boss Snikrot: Mork's teeth strike at Str 5 AP 5. If you do use him, put him with a well-equipped unit of kommandos.
I disagree with this review. Boss Snikrot can be awesome in the right list. It has nothing to do with him personally. Think of Snikrot as a Anvil. The rest of your army is the hammer. He arrives with a max squad of Kommandos from any board edge (Including your opponent's), and he comes in behind the units you want to kill, and on the turn they arrive they have shrouded, so if you can get a few in ruins, you are talking a 2+ cover save. The reason he didn't impress you, is you thought of him as a unit. I don't. I think of him as a Transport. He transport a max squad of Kommandos to exactly where I need them to be. After he has done his job, he just eats a challenge for the Nob, or I throw him away to tarpit / clean up something he can deal with by himself. I've even used him to eat Tau overwatch. This is how I would write it up:
Boss Snikrot: An excellent way to put Kommando's exactly where you need them to be. Underwhelming on his own, when joined to a large squad of Kommandos, he becomes a force multiplier, bringing in his unit in the opponent backfield, and acting as an Anvil for your enemies to be crushed upon.
I like snikrot a lot. Almost always accomplishes something for me. Except against tau who ignore cover... But ya I always take a max squad with pk, Bp, and maybe some burnas if I have the points. They always do some work.
Green=Da Best
Blue=Very Good
Yellow=Average
Red=Below Average (don't take in a competitive list)
Mad Dok Grotsnik: One Scalpel Short Of A Medpack means he and any unit he joins has Fearless and Rampage. The only reason why he's not green is because he can't leave the unit until he's the last man standing.
Kaptin Badrukk: His gun is likely to kill him, and he's got the cost of 5 Flash Gitz.
Boss Zagstruk: While I've never actually played him, the only reason why he's not red is because of Da Vulcha's Klaws. Hammer of Wrath attacks with those klaws are made at Str 8 AP 2.
Boss Snikrot: An excellent way to put Kommando's exactly where you need them to be. Underwhelming on his own, when joined to a large squad of Kommandos, he becomes a force multiplier, bringing in his unit in the opponent backfield, and acting as an Anvil for your enemies to be crushed upon.
Green=Da Best
Blue=Very Good
Yellow=Average
Red=Below Average (don't take in a competitive list)
Mad Dok Grotsnik: One Scalpel Short Of A Medpack means he and any unit he joins has Fearless and Rampage. The only reason why he's not green is because he can't leave the unit until he's the last man standing.
Kaptin Badrukk: His gun is likely to kill him, and he's got the cost of 5 Flash Gitz.
Boss Zagstruk: While I've never actually played him, the only reason why he's not red is because of Da Vulcha's Klaws. Hammer of Wrath attacks with those klaws are made at Str 8 AP 2.
Boss Snikrot: An excellent way to put Kommando's exactly where you need them to be. Underwhelming on his own, when joined to a large squad of Kommandos, he becomes a force multiplier, bringing in his unit in the opponent backfield, and acting as an Anvil for your enemies to be crushed upon.
Kaptin Badrukk might be bad on his own, but his flash git formation is amazing! Him plus 20 flash gitz, all gain mastercraft snazzgunz. Now you are killing things. Personally, put them in kustom battle fortress with a big mek in mega armor and just drive around shooting everything they can.
heh. so we'll reach the point where every character has a version of themselves that can fit into any of the coloured categories (blue under these circumstances, red otherwise)? I admit, i've not yet tried the special characters, save Ghaz.
Kaptin Badrukk might be bad on his own, but his flash git formation is amazing! Him plus 20 flash gitz, all gain mastercraft snazzgunz. Now you are killing things. Personally, put them in kustom battle fortress with a big mek in mega armor and just drive around shooting everything they can.
But that unit is so extremely expensive it is not funny anymore.
Kaptin Badrukk might be bad on his own, but his flash git formation is amazing! Him plus 20 flash gitz, all gain mastercraft snazzgunz. Now you are killing things. Personally, put them in kustom battle fortress with a big mek in mega armor and just drive around shooting everything they can.
But that unit is so extremely expensive it is not funny anymore.
And not to mention a pain to actually play if you role each git one at a time to properly managed their master crafted weapons.
Kaptin Badrukk might be bad on his own, but his flash git formation is amazing! Him plus 20 flash gitz, all gain mastercraft snazzgunz. Now you are killing things. Personally, put them in kustom battle fortress with a big mek in mega armor and just drive around shooting everything they can.
But that unit is so extremely expensive it is not funny anymore.
And not to mention a pain to actually play if you role each git one at a time to properly managed their master crafted weapons.
Yeah...
I have run the formation twice and the second time broke it into two units of 10 flash gitz. Broke rolling down into 5 models at a time with 15 dice (5 different colors of 3 dice) so it was reasonably quicker to roll the mastercrafted re-rolls since you could see the individual results from half the squad firing at once.
Kaptin Badrukk might be bad on his own, but his flash git formation is amazing! Him plus 20 flash gitz, all gain mastercraft snazzgunz. Now you are killing things. Personally, put them in kustom battle fortress with a big mek in mega armor and just drive around shooting everything they can.
But that unit is so extremely expensive it is not funny anymore.
Yeah, and I hear that to get the Master Crafted Rule to work correctly, you have to roll each snazzgun separately.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just wrote this Freebootaz army list.
Spoiler:
HQ Badrukk 110 (Warlord)
Troops
20 boyz 250
‘eavy armour
2 big shootas
Boss nob with power klaw and bosspole
10 boyz 115
‘eavy armour
1 big shoota
Boss nob with slugga and choppa
10 grots 55
Runtherd with squig hound and grot prod
Elites
17 nobz 564
‘eavy armour
5 bosspoles
4 power klaws
13 big choppas
Fast Attack
3 deffkoptas 90
Dakkajet 130
Additional Twin Linked Supa Shoota
4 Warbikers 107
Boss nob with power klaw
Heavy Support
Battlewagon 165
Deff Rolla
Red paint job
‘ard case
Kannon
4 big shootas
15 flash gitz 330
Here's what I intend to do with Badrukk and his gitz: Put them in the battlewagon so they don't have to sit in one place throughout the game. Does this mean when they shoot their snazzguns out the windows, they can still use their gitfindas?
If you read the gitfinda rule it says when they don't move...units in moving vehicles are counted as Haveing moved....so no. Drive that battlewagon as far as possible to enemy and put it in park. Next turn it's bs3.
Another good tactic is to put them in a FW warkopta, it goes faster and can jink...cool tactic is that a jink in transport doesn't force the embarked unit to snapfire. So just park that thing and jink, then shoot anything close to it.
So i posten my army list in the army list section but it is really a tactic question:
I'm trying to make a 900 point list for a escalation league battle...
Mission: Big Guns Never Tire.
Special Rule: You may select ONE Heavy Support choice at HALF THE POINTS.
I will be facing space marines With 1 landraider redeemer filled with some close comdat termies. a drop pod and some other stuff
what i got now are 2 almost the same list.
big deifferece is:
2 troops of tankbustas with 2 bomb squig each (in a trukk with ramm) and 1 group of mega nobz (1 with kill saws in a trukk with ram) and 2 Kustom mega cannons (2 single kanoons)
or
3 troops of tankbustaswith 2 bomb squig each (in a trukk with ramm) and 4 kustom mega kannons. (2 squads of 2 kannons)
Question is what is better vs the landraider? 15 tankbustas with 6 squigs or rush the meganobs to the landraider?
geargutz wrote: If you read the gitfinda rule it says when they don't move...units in moving vehicles are counted as Haveing moved....so no. Drive that battlewagon as far as possible to enemy and put it in park. Next turn it's bs3.
Another good tactic is to put them in a FW warkopta, it goes faster and can jink...cool tactic is that a jink in transport doesn't force the embarked unit to snapfire. So just park that thing and jink, then shoot anything close to it.
I had an interesting 1750 pt game against a SW thunder wolf calvary list a couple of weeks ago. I had Grukk's formation from the Stormclaw box, Lootas with a big mek w/MA and MFF, tankbustas, Big mek w/SAG, grots, full unit of boyz, kommandoes with Snikrot, min unit of flash gitz, and Traktor cannons. Cannons did absolutely nothing (league game where we don'the know opponent's list) and the SAG rolled terrible, but we drew at the end with him having one small unit holding an objective, a single Nob holding one, him having linebreaker, me having first blood, both dead warlords, my Lootas and gitz untouched, him with a lone character just outside an objective. Model of the game was a single regular tankbustas that held on for a turn after thunderwolves cushed his buddies during my assault, rolling a 1 on the mob rule table, tying up a unit of 6 calvary during his turn. Nobs did excellent in this game and Grukk simultaneously killed his warlord as he died in a blazing glory, thank goodness for shred! Good game overall, thought I would get stomped but my Boyz did me proud.
Its been released in the ebook; it lets you waaagh every turn including the first and you no longer need to roll 10+ for HoW, just have a mob of 10+ models charge. Its honestly pretty bad, unless you take Ghaz.
The waaagh every turn rule is actually fantastic, but a bunch of S3 HoW attacks is a joke. If the unit composition is good though I can see myself taking it for the waaagh rule.
Based on the ebook, the detachment lets you do so. Its also rediculously exspensive and gives you a +2 to the mob rule table, reportedly. Really hoping it's actually +\- 2.
Well that's just killed my hopes of a decent book.
If Mob Rule stays the same I would seriously consider just painting as opposed to playing Orks. I'm at the point where I could rant on Mob Rule for a solid five minutes.
If you bring ghaz you can ignore it though, because perma waaagh means the whole army is fearless if they don't change his WL trait. Currently looking at Warband+Council+Vulcha Skwad, which my ork friend might find fun and atleast semi effective. Waiting to see if lootas can be taken in anything in the detachment...
I like the waaagh every turn and the hammer of wrath since I bring big blobs. Also since the +2 doesn't really affect large blobs I tend to prefer it so the boys don't run when I roll that one.
I was under the impression that Kan walls suck as they're too slow and weak in the new dex coz kff aren't as good.... Somebody prove me wrong... GW seem to be trying to push ork walkers at the moment.
Just kill the Warlord and you can remove one part of the bonus. Can remove the other part easily too just through firepower. Every other decurion has bonuses you can't get rid of, or at least easily.
The new formations are gak too. Burnabombas are still useless, Dakkajets are decent, but the Tankhunters rule means little when Tankbustas, Lootas and Traktors do the same thing but for better. Blitzabomber was never firing at tanks.
I've had time to sleep on it and I still think it's a massive kick in the nuts.
No new Codex/models at least to my knowledge, so my Orks are staying on the shelf indefinitely.
BAN wrote: I was under the impression that Kan walls suck as they're too slow and weak in the new dex coz kff aren't as good.... Somebody prove me wrong... GW seem to be trying to push ork walkers at the moment.
While I've never done a Kan wall, Ork walkers are trash in general compared to every walker in the game. But gw has a hard on for selling us walker...but are limp at writing us descent rules.
I only ever bring walkers to casual and fun games (and apokalypse).
Typically i keep 1 skorcha on a dredd because that heavy flamer usually does some damage in both shooting and overwatch, and its a good bit cheaper than a 4th klaw.
The main thing that extra attack will help against is numbers, as everything that can tank a deffdredd melee's attacks will usually kill him before he can attack anyway (other walkers, MCs, bamf characters). The skorcha both in shooting and overwatch will do more damage to numbers than 1 klaw attack in most situations. The things that dont kill a dredd first and dont have mass numbers, he already butchers without that last attack.
Problem is getting him there. Even with a KFF following them i rarely get them in melee because the first flippin shot always stunlocks, immobilize, or explodes them. Walkers should have Super Heavy Vehicle damage chart perks...
As it stands I am thinking of just begging the guys at my FLGS to let me run ghazy instead of a warboss in the goff kill mob. Still a lame decurion, but at least I could get a BAMF Ghazy out of it.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: As it stands I am thinking of just begging the guys at my FLGS to let me run ghazy instead of a warboss in the goff kill mob. Still a lame decurion, but at least I could get a BAMF Ghazy out of it.
The only big buff it seems that we got from the update was Ghazzy actually being worth his points (outside of the council). Given that you still need to take all the poo poo stuff in the goff kill mob I don't think its asking much, not wraithknight spam or Tau levels of cheese at all.
First, My Klaw stompa/ bike list won its first event over the weekend. Beat out the new deamon codex and Eldar codex. I had a great time. I acutally managed to "eldar" the Eldar player. I hide some deff-koptas in reserver to out flank. We were in the last turn of our game. The Mission was Big guns never tire and 2 of them came on. I manage to push him off the objectives and then turbo boosted the 2 deff koptas and ran one of my favorite orks over to the other to claim the victory. He was so pissed. All the games had stopped because he said I "eldar-ed" him with my orks. It was a good time. Klaw stompa actually didn't get to kill much with his klaws, but his flame blecha was awesome.
Second, I've seen the new ork detachment and I'm not too impressed by it. I actually don't waagh that often now. Most of the time my warlord is a big mek with a lucky stikk or da thinkin kap. What I really like is some of our new formations. Dakka jet one is pretty nice. 3 jets with tank hunter. Doesn't sound like much, but if you are hunting down light armor this is great. Also, you get extra shots every turn, because you are waaghing every turn. 12 str 6 ap 4 shots, dakka dakka dakka. I'd be more curious to see what some of the other formations rules are. Wingnuts Air force is pretty awesome. You can fully heal the plans and reload bombs when they go in reserve.
Frozocrone wrote: Is it Tankhunters? I thought it was just Tankhunters against Flyers.
If it's just generic Tankhunters, might paint mine up.
It's tank hunters if the target is a flyer. The extra shots from an endless Waaagh is nice, but that's the only buff you can really count on when list building with that formation.
That being said, It's not a bad way to sneak 3 dakka jets into a list that uses a CAD, leaving your fast slots open for deffkoptas and warbikers.
Edit to add - I'm going to give the Orkurion a shot this sunday at our montly RTT. I think that MSU spam is the way to go with it - yes the enemy will kill that single deff kopta but i've got 5 or 6 more units of them waiting to harass and grab objectives, etc. I'll report back with how it does.
Not trying to derail this festival of complaints about the disappointment that the Orkurion is on paper (and let's face it, likely on the table as well), but I'd like a few tips/ideas/tactics regarding Warbikers. My wife collects orks (actually mostly gretchin, but we'll move past that) but doesn't actually play the game. I'm ok with that as it gives me an extra army to play with when I'm feeling heretical, but in any case we recently got a really great deal on a used bundle of ork stuff and with that came a pack of 3 Warbikers, 3 Wartrakks and 9 Deffkoptas.
I'm fairly confident in how to use the koptas and Wartrakks, it's just the bikes I'm kind of struggling with. I'm not interested in running a full bike army, and don't have the funds to run big packs of bikes anytime soon. Given that, how best should a small bike group be run? I was considering picking up a couple more Warbikers and an old used Space Marine Attack Bike and converting that into a Nob Biker, and running 5 Warbikers with a Nob/PK+BP. If that's a reasonable squad, how do I use it? If it's no good, what do I need to make it work? The squad will have backup in the other fast attack choices mentioned above, as well as a trukk with 6 meganobz inside aiming for a turn 2 charge, turn 1 bullet magnet.
TL;DR - Hook a girl up with some thoughts on running a small 5-6 strong Warbiker squad for her wife's mostly-grot army.
Thorned_Lily wrote: Not trying to derail this festival of complaints about the disappointment that the Orkurion is on paper (and let's face it, likely on the table as well), but I'd like a few tips/ideas/tactics regarding Warbikers. My wife collects orks (actually mostly gretchin, but we'll move past that) but doesn't actually play the game. I'm ok with that as it gives me an extra army to play with when I'm feeling heretical, but in any case we recently got a really great deal on a used bundle of ork stuff and with that came a pack of 3 Warbikers, 3 Wartrakks and 9 Deffkoptas.
I'm fairly confident in how to use the koptas and Wartrakks, it's just the bikes I'm kind of struggling with. I'm not interested in running a full bike army, and don't have the funds to run big packs of bikes anytime soon. Given that, how best should a small bike group be run? I was considering picking up a couple more Warbikers and an old used Space Marine Attack Bike and converting that into a Nob Biker, and running 5 Warbikers with a Nob/PK+BP. If that's a reasonable squad, how do I use it? If it's no good, what do I need to make it work? The squad will have backup in the other fast attack choices mentioned above, as well as a trukk with 6 meganobz inside aiming for a turn 2 charge, turn 1 bullet magnet.
TL;DR - Hook a girl up with some thoughts on running a small 5-6 strong Warbiker squad for her wife's mostly-grot army.
I would treat the bike squad as a rapid-response dakka unit. Even with only 5-6 guys it can still put out a respectable amount of dakka especially with twin-linked, pretty much use it as a harassing unit against small enemy units vulnerable to its guns like pathfinders, troops squatting on objectives. Only charge in when necessary (like combo-charging with your main CC unit and using the bikers to soak overwatch) as they're primary upsides are their mobility and ranged-ability.
Not going to lie, if the old dakkajet rules were still a thing people would be taking bare bones cores and utterly spamming dakkajets lol. Endless Waaagh! on probably 6 dakkajets firing double shots. Would get stale quick in my mind running nothing but jets, but ork fliers would be something to fear lol.
Rather than granting them Tankhunter i wish they got a Dogfighta! rule in that formation. While moving past a flier, roll a D6. On a 1, you crashed into it and you both crash and burn. On a 2-3, you successfully manage to peg the rear armor of the enemy flier with 1 gun. On a 4-5, all guns. On a 6, reroll pens. This doesnt count as a shooting phase or limit the total number of guns able to be fired.
Also to answer your biker question Thorned_Lily, warbikers are best thought of as a Warboss on Bike with Lucky Stikk delivery unit. Theyre good on their own, but without a painboy theyre not hard to remove and the Warboss devours just about everything they slam into. 10+ warbikers adds plenty of ablative wounds and a crapload of dakka before the charge and for overwatch, less then that its more of a strikeforce that swerves up the side of the table to sneakcharge something akin to stormboyz or MANz missiles.
Even if they didnt all come in at once, youre bound to get at least 3 the same turn. Fliers have an innate problem of eventually they either fire at a terrible target a couple turns or vanish for a turn, i'd rather the 6 dakkajets came in waves of 3 so i just constantly had that Strafing Run dakka coming down, instead of giving my opponent a turn to breathe.
My opponent was running something like
Sorcerer (ML3)
Sorcerer (ML3)
6 Terminators (Combi-Weapons, Mark of Nurgle)
6 Terminators (Combi-Weapons, Mark of Nurgle)
Forgeworld Soulgrinder.
5 Hellbrutes in a formation as a single unit.
It was an obvious missmatch. I got 2nd turn. He deployed in 1 corner, so I deployed my Lobbas and Stompa accross the table, and stuck everything else in the far corner. The only units I used in this game were the Stompa, the Lobbas, and a couple of Deffkoptas that took potshots, and got linebreaker. He kept the hellbrutes invisible all game.
Turn 1, he shot and took out 1 of my 4 power fields. He Ran the Hellbrutes to score a maelstrom objective. I liftadroppered the Soulgrinder to death, exploded one helbrute, and took a couple of hull points off another, and killed 3 Termies all with the Stompa. The Lobbas Picked off another terminator. I failed a 8" charge into the helbrute formation.
Turn 2, he shot and took out another power field, and then charged the Stompa with the Helbrutes. I actually hit, ad killed one with my normal attacks, but didn't do anything with my stomp. He takes off about 5 hull points. On my turn I fail to repair anything. The lobbas kill a couple of termmies. My Stompa weapon destroys a helbrute and removes its power fist, so now only 2 can hurt me, but he takes another 3 hull points. On his turn he dominates the lobbas, and fails a 10" charge to join the combat. One sorcerer perils himself to death. The combat doesn't do much. He does 0 hull points, and I glance once. Then on my turn, My Stompa Hits 3/4 times, and does an Explodes, and 2 other pens. That kills all but one of the helbrutes, and I stomp it to death. I take another 2 hull points.
Turn 3, he tries to back up and hold his Emperors will, but it is hopeless, my Stompa kills all the terrmies, and a Deffkopta takes the last wound off of a sorcerer.
Result: Tabling 11-0 Orks.
Round 2:
Spoiler:
Mission: Big Guns.
This is my worst matchup possible of the 16 armies in attendance. It is tau.
Crisis Suite with 1 Flamer
Crisis Suite with 1 Flamer
Y'Vahrna
Stormsurge (4++)
Riptide Wing:
Bursttide
Bursttide
Bursttide
He wins the roll, and decides to go 1st. It is Vanguard. I make a major deployment mistake, and put the lobbas in my only piece of ruins which means Y'Varna ends up with a 4" Charge on turn 1. Through a fluke of epic propotions, I'm on a table with some giant cans that are big enough to HIDE MY STOMPA out of LOS. I reserve everything else.
Turn 1: On his turn, he moves his stuff around main, and puts the anchors down on the stormsurge. He loses a drone to Dangerous. Y'Varna fails the 4" charge, and it is on, because that puts Y'Varna in easy range of the Stompa. The Lobbas kill all but 1 Marker light. The Stompa puts some wounds on the Stormsurge, and a couple of Riptides. Then I fail a 5" charge into the Y'Varna. Doh!.
Turn 2: This turn is unlike anything I've ever seen. He shoots 167 Shots. Most of them are at BS 4 or higher. He takes down both powerfield, and takes 10 Hull points off the Stompa. His Y'varna finishes the Lobbas. I'm wishing I had paid the points for the 5++. Though I did get a couple of 5++ cover saves for him shooting through his own stuff. He also Gets hot and take 4!!!!! wounds on his various Riptides. On my turn. Everything comes in. I move the Stompa towards 2 Riptides that are closely grouped. The nearest one is down to 2 wounds, and I'm hoping to shoot it to death, and charge the other. I shoot basically my entire army into the Riptide, and only do one wound to it. I did end up shooting a few shots at the Stormsurge, and taking off 2 more wounds there. I fail both of my repair rolls, even with the reroll. Crap. I charge in the Stompa and Hammer of wrath kills the Riptide. Great.
Turn 3: Y'varna only does 1 hull point thanks to a miracle. A Burstide does nothing, but the Stormsurge finishes off the Stompa. The only thing that walks out is the Runtherd. He also kills 4 Deffkoptas 2 Trukks, 2 Tankbustas, and 6 boys. On my turn, I do the best I can. The small squad of boys is enough to kill the riptide after the heroic runtherd eats the overwatch. I get a charge off on a Riptide with Tankbustas. 3 of them survive overwatch. I win combat by 1, but the 1 wound riptide makes leadership. My other stuff is mainly scoring Maelstrom. I lost 4 Maelstrom points because of the Stompa, and have to make up ground. I do sneak one trukk next to the remaining riptide that isn't in Combat.
Turn 4: The Stormsurge kills the remaining Deffkoptas, Tankbustas, and the boys that killed the Y'varna. It looked a bit like he was going to charge in and try to bail out the riptide locked with the tankbustsa, but he shoots instead. The other riptide kills the trukk that is next to him, but the boys get out in good position. Combat, however doesn't work out. The 1 wound riptide hits 3 times kills 2 out of the 3 Tankbustas, and my last one wound, but he makes the invul. I fail leadership, and mob rule, and get swept. On my turn it is looking bleak. I've gob one full squad of boys, and one full squad of gretchin, and 2 running tankbustas that are about to clear the table. My Boys put down the riptide next to him, and consolidate out of Line of Sight. At the point my boys are controlling one Big Guns Objective, and the Gretchin are sort of straddling 2 of them, but can only control one, both his 2 wound stormsurge and his 1 wound riptide are on top of the last big guns objective, however due to the 4 Maelstrom Points my Stompa gave up, he's got a 1 point lead on Maelstrom. We've both got Warlord. I have linebreaker, and neither of us have King of the hill. So right now I'm winning 6 - 5.
Turn 5: He realizes that I'm about to win the game, so he does what he absolutely must. He moves, and runs the Stormsurge to get linebreaker, and 4D6 Jumps the Riptide to get King of the Hill. I do absolutely nothing, because there is nothing that I can do except win primary. I'm losing 7-6, but at least not tabled. It goes on to turn 6.
Turn 6: I try to mind game him, and convince him to nova his riptide, but he is too smart to fall for it, so he shoots SMS at my Gretchin, and kills 3, but I make a leadership. I do nothing again. The game ends.
Tau win: 7-6.
Round 3:
Spoiler:
Mission: Kill points.
Opponent: Psychic Deamons.
I don't remember his list completely. He had a ton of heralds. Something like this:
Daemon Cad:
Fateweaver
Herald of Tzitcheech (ML 3)
Pink Horrors
Daemonettes.
Seekers with a ML1 or 2 champion or herald.
Soul Grinder.
Daemon Cad:
Herald of Slanesh (ML 2)
Herald of Slanesh (ML 2)
Daemonettes.
Daemonettes.
CSM Ally:
Sorcerer (ML2 or 3)
Cultists
Heldrake
Kill Points are a problem for me, obviously. I absolutely must win the Maelstrom.
Deployment: He gets 1st turn, and deploys in his corner, with Fateweaver out front. His Seekers outflank. I'm hoping to put some wounds on him before he gets airborne thanks to +1 to sieze, but I don't sieze. I deploy the Stompa, and the Lobbas.
Turn 1: He flies fateweaver straight towards me, and casts a metric ton of witchfires at my Lobbas. He does end up killing 1 gun, and 1 Gretchin, but not enough for a leadership test. I march the Stompa up, and manage to kill most of his cultists and his sorcerer, then I charge in to a squad of deamonettes. There is a Slanesh herald with a S8 AP2 weapon, and one that is S5 or 6 rending, and they actually manage to take 4 hull points off my Stompa. I kill some Daemonetts, but they actually win combat which was fascinating.
Turn 2: With nothing targetable except for the Lobbas, he pours everything he's got into them, and kills 2 more gretchin, and another gun, and they run off the table. His Heldrake comes on but has nothing to shoot at. On his turn, the Stompa manages to win combat by 6, and Demonic Instability takes care of the rest. On my turn Everything comes in. I had master of ambush, so I outflanked my Tankbusters, and end up with a trukk look at the rear of that helldrake. they convince it to Jink, and then miss. the Stompa lights up another unit of Demonettes, and charges into a different one, demonic instability wins out here too. One Trukk moves flat out to score a Mealstrom. Everything else shoots at Fateweaver. He manages to Jink away 3 Rokkits, and make 3 armor saves.
Turn 3: His Soulgrinder goes after the Tankbustas that screwed with the Heldrake, and blows up the Trukk, they take causalities from the explosion and run. Fateweaver moves into the middle of a bunch of my stuff, and fires off a couple of Novas that kill a few deffkoptas, and imobilizes a Trukk. Minor Rules error here. Fateweaver also shot a Beam. He shouldn't have been able to because he jinked. The seekers come on, and threaten my other tankbustas. On my turn I do basically the same thing I've been doing This time I shoot the Seekers with the Stompa and the Tankbustas. I also kill a few demonettes. One Deffkopta shoots at Fatey to get him Jinking then the rest go after the heldrake, but he doesn't Jink, and I roll a 1 to glance on my only hit. The Gretchin make Fateweaver take 2 more saves, and I giggle. I move everything to basically Deny the Heldrake any good targets. Fateweaver too, but there is a limit to how much I can do.
Turn 4: His Heldrake Vector Strike, but fails to kill a Trukk, and Fatey moves in the only way he can to keep him on the table. He is running low on Warp dice at this point. Fateweaver does have enough left to kill 2 of the 3 of the running squad of Bustas, and make me take 4 saves on a Deffkopta which doesn't die. The Soul Grinder kills the last fleeing tankbusta. On my Turn, he wants to call the game, he thinks he's way up on Kill points, and I'm way up on Maelstrom. However, when we count up kill points, he is only leading by 1. So I suggest we finish my turn to see if I catch him. It all comes down to the Stompa, and the Trukk full of Tankbustas. There are 2 Cultists, and 8 Daemonettes and a herald that need to die. However, 1st, I take a pot shot at the Heldrake with the Liftadroppa. Boom. Dead. Well, that was easy. I shoot the big shootas and finish the Cultists, putting me up by 1 kill point. We don't even resolve the shooting against the Demonettes, because that is enough. He could have gotten another kill point or 2, but he would have had to land Fateweaver, and he didn't want to do that, because I've got some Power Claws that would love to meet him.
Ork Victory: 11-0
Final Standings:
Spoiler:
I'm now the 3rd Ranked ITC player in the state of Oklahoma. Thanks to placing 3rd in the 1st ITC event in OK this season. 1st place was a battle company player. 2nd went to my Tau opponent. It was really interesting the battle points: 3027, 3018, 2028, 2018. It was one of the more fun events I've been to.
My Takaways.
1) I think the 5++ on the Stompa is probably worth it, even at 1500. It will cost me 2 Deffkoptas, but that is what I'm going to do.
2) The Stompa spent more time in CC than I expected. I'm actually considering Dropping one Deff Kannon for the Claw. It didn't come up, but if I had to go toe to toe with a Knight or Wraith Knight, I'd need it. I'll probably sit pat for now, and try to get in a few more tourneys without it to see how it does.
3) Tau are still a problem. At least it took effort for them to the kill the stompa, but that was just 1.5 turns. The rest of my army evaporated before them.
Vineheart01 wrote: Typically i keep 1 skorcha on a dredd because that heavy flamer usually does some damage in both shooting and overwatch, and its a good bit cheaper than a 4th klaw.
The main thing that extra attack will help against is numbers, as everything that can tank a deffdredd melee's attacks will usually kill him before he can attack anyway (other walkers, MCs, bamf characters). The skorcha both in shooting and overwatch will do more damage to numbers than 1 klaw attack in most situations. The things that dont kill a dredd first and dont have mass numbers, he already butchers without that last attack.
Problem is getting him there. Even with a KFF following them i rarely get them in melee because the first flippin shot always stunlocks, immobilize, or explodes them. Walkers should have Super Heavy Vehicle damage chart perks...
Yeah, if you're swamped by an enemy horde, a skorcha is frequently better than having one more klaw attack.
My opponent was running something like
Sorcerer (ML3)
Sorcerer (ML3)
6 Terminators (Combi-Weapons, Mark of Nurgle)
6 Terminators (Combi-Weapons, Mark of Nurgle)
Forgeworld Soulgrinder.
5 Hellbrutes in a formation as a single unit.
It was an obvious missmatch. I got 2nd turn. He deployed in 1 corner, so I deployed my Lobbas and Stompa accross the table, and stuck everything else in the far corner. The only units I used in this game were the Stompa, the Lobbas, and a couple of Deffkoptas that took potshots, and got linebreaker. He kept the hellbrutes invisible all game.
Turn 1, he shot and took out 1 of my 4 power fields. He Ran the Hellbrutes to score a maelstrom objective. I liftadroppered the Soulgrinder to death, exploded one helbrute, and took a couple of hull points off another, and killed 3 Termies all with the Stompa. The Lobbas Picked off another terminator. I failed a 8" charge into the helbrute formation.
Turn 2, he shot and took out another power field, and then charged the Stompa with the Helbrutes. I actually hit, ad killed one with my normal attacks, but didn't do anything with my stomp. He takes off about 5 hull points. On my turn I fail to repair anything. The lobbas kill a couple of termmies. My Stompa weapon destroys a helbrute and removes its power fist, so now only 2 can hurt me, but he takes another 3 hull points. On his turn he dominates the lobbas, and fails a 10" charge to join the combat. One sorcerer perils himself to death. The combat doesn't do much. He does 0 hull points, and I glance once. Then on my turn, My Stompa Hits 3/4 times, and does an Explodes, and 2 other pens. That kills all but one of the helbrutes, and I stomp it to death. I take another 2 hull points.
Turn 3, he tries to back up and hold his Emperors will, but it is hopeless, my Stompa kills all the terrmies, and a Deffkopta takes the last wound off of a sorcerer.
Result: Tabling 11-0 Orks.
Round 2:
Spoiler:
Mission: Big Guns.
This is my worst matchup possible of the 16 armies in attendance. It is tau.
Crisis Suite with 1 Flamer
Crisis Suite with 1 Flamer
Y'Vahrna
Stormsurge (4++)
Riptide Wing:
Bursttide
Bursttide
Bursttide
He wins the roll, and decides to go 1st. It is Vanguard. I make a major deployment mistake, and put the lobbas in my only piece of ruins which means Y'Varna ends up with a 4" Charge on turn 1. Through a fluke of epic propotions, I'm on a table with some giant cans that are big enough to HIDE MY STOMPA out of LOS. I reserve everything else.
Turn 1: On his turn, he moves his stuff around main, and puts the anchors down on the stormsurge. He loses a drone to Dangerous. Y'Varna fails the 4" charge, and it is on, because that puts Y'Varna in easy range of the Stompa. The Lobbas kill all but 1 Marker light. The Stompa puts some wounds on the Stormsurge, and a couple of Riptides. Then I fail a 5" charge into the Y'Varna. Doh!.
Turn 2: This turn is unlike anything I've ever seen. He shoots 167 Shots. Most of them are at BS 4 or higher. He takes down both powerfield, and takes 10 Hull points off the Stompa. His Y'varna finishes the Lobbas. I'm wishing I had paid the points for the 5++. Though I did get a couple of 5++ cover saves for him shooting through his own stuff. He also Gets hot and take 4!!!!! wounds on his various Riptides. On my turn. Everything comes in. I move the Stompa towards 2 Riptides that are closely grouped. The nearest one is down to 2 wounds, and I'm hoping to shoot it to death, and charge the other. I shoot basically my entire army into the Riptide, and only do one wound to it. I did end up shooting a few shots at the Stormsurge, and taking off 2 more wounds there. I fail both of my repair rolls, even with the reroll. Crap. I charge in the Stompa and Hammer of wrath kills the Riptide. Great.
Turn 3: Y'varna only does 1 hull point thanks to a miracle. A Burstide does nothing, but the Stormsurge finishes off the Stompa. The only thing that walks out is the Runtherd. He also kills 4 Deffkoptas 2 Trukks, 2 Tankbustas, and 6 boys. On my turn, I do the best I can. The small squad of boys is enough to kill the riptide after the heroic runtherd eats the overwatch. I get a charge off on a Riptide with Tankbustas. 3 of them survive overwatch. I win combat by 1, but the 1 wound riptide makes leadership. My other stuff is mainly scoring Maelstrom. I lost 4 Maelstrom points because of the Stompa, and have to make up ground. I do sneak one trukk next to the remaining riptide that isn't in Combat.
Turn 4: The Stormsurge kills the remaining Deffkoptas, Tankbustas, and the boys that killed the Y'varna. It looked a bit like he was going to charge in and try to bail out the riptide locked with the tankbustsa, but he shoots instead. The other riptide kills the trukk that is next to him, but the boys get out in good position. Combat, however doesn't work out. The 1 wound riptide hits 3 times kills 2 out of the 3 Tankbustas, and my last one wound, but he makes the invul. I fail leadership, and mob rule, and get swept. On my turn it is looking bleak. I've gob one full squad of boys, and one full squad of gretchin, and 2 running tankbustas that are about to clear the table. My Boys put down the riptide next to him, and consolidate out of Line of Sight. At the point my boys are controlling one Big Guns Objective, and the Gretchin are sort of straddling 2 of them, but can only control one, both his 2 wound stormsurge and his 1 wound riptide are on top of the last big guns objective, however due to the 4 Maelstrom Points my Stompa gave up, he's got a 1 point lead on Maelstrom. We've both got Warlord. I have linebreaker, and neither of us have King of the hill. So right now I'm winning 6 - 5.
Turn 5: He realizes that I'm about to win the game, so he does what he absolutely must. He moves, and runs the Stormsurge to get linebreaker, and 4D6 Jumps the Riptide to get King of the Hill. I do absolutely nothing, because there is nothing that I can do except win primary. I'm losing 7-6, but at least not tabled. It goes on to turn 6.
Turn 6: I try to mind game him, and convince him to nova his riptide, but he is too smart to fall for it, so he shoots SMS at my Gretchin, and kills 3, but I make a leadership. I do nothing again. The game ends.
Tau win: 7-6.
Round 3:
Spoiler:
Mission: Kill points.
Opponent: Psychic Deamons.
I don't remember his list completely. He had a ton of heralds. Something like this:
Daemon Cad:
Fateweaver
Herald of Tzitcheech (ML 3)
Pink Horrors
Daemonettes.
Seekers with a ML1 or 2 champion or herald.
Soul Grinder.
Daemon Cad:
Herald of Slanesh (ML 2)
Herald of Slanesh (ML 2)
Daemonettes.
Daemonettes.
CSM Ally:
Sorcerer (ML2 or 3)
Cultists
Heldrake
Kill Points are a problem for me, obviously. I absolutely must win the Maelstrom.
Deployment: He gets 1st turn, and deploys in his corner, with Fateweaver out front. His Seekers outflank. I'm hoping to put some wounds on him before he gets airborne thanks to +1 to sieze, but I don't sieze. I deploy the Stompa, and the Lobbas.
Turn 1: He flies fateweaver straight towards me, and casts a metric ton of witchfires at my Lobbas. He does end up killing 1 gun, and 1 Gretchin, but not enough for a leadership test. I march the Stompa up, and manage to kill most of his cultists and his sorcerer, then I charge in to a squad of deamonettes. There is a Slanesh herald with a S8 AP2 weapon, and one that is S5 or 6 rending, and they actually manage to take 4 hull points off my Stompa. I kill some Daemonetts, but they actually win combat which was fascinating.
Turn 2: With nothing targetable except for the Lobbas, he pours everything he's got into them, and kills 2 more gretchin, and another gun, and they run off the table. His Heldrake comes on but has nothing to shoot at. On his turn, the Stompa manages to win combat by 6, and Demonic Instability takes care of the rest. On my turn Everything comes in. I had master of ambush, so I outflanked my Tankbusters, and end up with a trukk look at the rear of that helldrake. they convince it to Jink, and then miss. the Stompa lights up another unit of Demonettes, and charges into a different one, demonic instability wins out here too. One Trukk moves flat out to score a Mealstrom. Everything else shoots at Fateweaver. He manages to Jink away 3 Rokkits, and make 3 armor saves.
Turn 3: His Soulgrinder goes after the Tankbustas that screwed with the Heldrake, and blows up the Trukk, they take causalities from the explosion and run. Fateweaver moves into the middle of a bunch of my stuff, and fires off a couple of Novas that kill a few deffkoptas, and imobilizes a Trukk. Minor Rules error here. Fateweaver also shot a Beam. He shouldn't have been able to because he jinked. The seekers come on, and threaten my other tankbustas. On my turn I do basically the same thing I've been doing This time I shoot the Seekers with the Stompa and the Tankbustas. I also kill a few demonettes. One Deffkopta shoots at Fatey to get him Jinking then the rest go after the heldrake, but he doesn't Jink, and I roll a 1 to glance on my only hit. The Gretchin make Fateweaver take 2 more saves, and I giggle. I move everything to basically Deny the Heldrake any good targets. Fateweaver too, but there is a limit to how much I can do.
Turn 4: His Heldrake Vector Strike, but fails to kill a Trukk, and Fatey moves in the only way he can to keep him on the table. He is running low on Warp dice at this point. Fateweaver does have enough left to kill 2 of the 3 of the running squad of Bustas, and make me take 4 saves on a Deffkopta which doesn't die. The Soul Grinder kills the last fleeing tankbusta. On my Turn, he wants to call the game, he thinks he's way up on Kill points, and I'm way up on Maelstrom. However, when we count up kill points, he is only leading by 1. So I suggest we finish my turn to see if I catch him. It all comes down to the Stompa, and the Trukk full of Tankbustas. There are 2 Cultists, and 8 Daemonettes and a herald that need to die. However, 1st, I take a pot shot at the Heldrake with the Liftadroppa. Boom. Dead. Well, that was easy. I shoot the big shootas and finish the Cultists, putting me up by 1 kill point. We don't even resolve the shooting against the Demonettes, because that is enough. He could have gotten another kill point or 2, but he would have had to land Fateweaver, and he didn't want to do that, because I've got some Power Claws that would love to meet him.
Ork Victory: 11-0
Final Standings:
Spoiler:
I'm now the 3rd Ranked ITC player in the state of Oklahoma. Thanks to placing 3rd in the 1st ITC event in OK this season. 1st place was a battle company player. 2nd went to my Tau opponent. It was really interesting the battle points: 3027, 3018, 2028, 2018. It was one of the more fun events I've been to.
My Takaways.
1) I think the 5++ on the Stompa is probably worth it, even at 1500. It will cost me 2 Deffkoptas, but that is what I'm going to do.
2) The Stompa spent more time in CC than I expected. I'm actually considering Dropping one Deff Kannon for the Claw. It didn't come up, but if I had to go toe to toe with a Knight or Wraith Knight, I'd need it. I'll probably sit pat for now, and try to get in a few more tourneys without it to see how it does.
3) Tau are still a problem. At least it took effort for them to the kill the stompa, but that was just 1.5 turns. The rest of my army evaporated before them.
Thanks for sharing these comprehensive battle reports. Thumbs up!
If you give up one deff kannon you'll get the 50 points needed for the 5++.
How are the 2 x 5 man suicide squads of tankbustas working for you? Are two enough or do you wish you had more? Would more tankbustas per squad have made a difference for you?
My Takaways.
1) I think the 5++ on the Stompa is probably worth it, even at 1500. It will cost me 2 Deffkoptas, but that is what I'm going to do.
2) The Stompa spent more time in CC than I expected. I'm actually considering Dropping one Deff Kannon for the Claw. It didn't come up, but if I had to go toe to toe with a Knight or Wraith Knight, I'd need it. I'll probably sit pat for now, and try to get in a few more tourneys without it to see how it does.
3) Tau are still a problem. At least it took effort for them to the kill the stompa, but that was just 1.5 turns. The rest of my army evaporated before them.
I'm shocked the opponents allowed you to use the ITC ruling on Buzzgob's stompa (I personally think it's quite clear it was a mistake and we shouldn't be able to take it as written)
We'll see what FW has to say if they re-release IA:8.
When the errata came out for DA Ravenwing Detachment for characters on bikes, they replacedthe ITC's rulings (GW effectively nerfed them) and Reecius openly admitted that GWFAQ's supercede their FAQs.
Frozocrone wrote: We'll see what FW has to say if they re-release IA:8.
When the errata came out for DA Ravenwing Detachment for characters on bikes, they replacedthe ITC's rulings (GW effectively nerfed them) and Reecius openly admitted that GWFAQ's supercede their FAQs.
That'd be very welcome. I *play* Orks, and I don't think I should be getting a Stompa at under 3000 points. It just feels too dirty.
Frozocrone wrote: We'll see what FW has to say if they re-release IA:8.
When the errata came out for DA Ravenwing Detachment for characters on bikes, they replacedthe ITC's rulings (GW effectively nerfed them) and Reecius openly admitted that GWFAQ's supercede their FAQs.
That'd be very welcome. I *play* Orks, and I don't think I should be getting a Stompa at under 3000 points. It just feels too dirty.
Personally, I don't have a problem with the way buzzgob's stompa is written. Honestly, the Big mek stompa usually under performs. It has 1 weapon on it that can only be used against vehicles and your other D weapons you need 5's to hit something with it. Plus with the metric ton of D weapons around now, the orks could use some loving. The big advantage to the big mek stompa is that it has 10 fire points. 8 in the chest, 1 in the head and 1 in the back. So you can load it up with something like loota's and give that stompa a little more strength.
buzzgob's stompa is what a stompa should cost. It should only be a couple hundred more than a knight because it has a lot of HP but it isnt necessarily more powerful, just more durable.
Thats probably why ITC allows it and i havent heard anyone complain about it. Closest thing orks have to cheese, and its still not cheese lol
The sad thing is is that if you take the Codex Stompa: (770) and build him in the Kustom Stompa builder in IA:8, he is cheaper as a kustom stompa and has more attacks.
Mmarg wrote: How are the 2 x 5 man suicide squads of tankbustas working for you? Are two enough or do you wish you had more? Would more tankbustas per squad have made a difference for you?
My favorite unit in the Ork Codex is the Solo Deff Kopta. It doesn't have leadership issues, and has decently good survivability, and is outstanding at winning games. My second favorite unit is a min squad of Tankbustas in a Trukk with a Ram. If I didn't have the Stompa in my list, I would have put a couple of bomb squigs in each squad. They performed to my expectations. My best chance to beat Tau was from the Tankbustas.
I can never really have enough of them. The Stompa is a real challenge to build a list around. It is so many points leaving you with few points for anything else.
General_K wrote: I'm shocked the opponents allowed you to use the ITC ruling on Buzzgob's stompa (I personally think it's quite clear it was a mistake and we shouldn't be able to take it as written)
This was a competitive ITC tournament. At an ITC event they are going to use ITC rules.
That being said after running it now in about 8 or 9 games, I have less objection to the ITC change that I did at 1st. Even with a 530 point discount, the Stompa is still radically overcosted compared to a Wraithknight. If they weren't changing the Maelstrom Rules, I'm not sure the Stompa would even make sense in a 1500 point game. It costs more, and puts out less damage than the Knight Crusader with the only advantage being better survivability. If I could take a Crusader at as Lord of War choice, I would pick that instead of the 400 point Stompa. If I could take a Stormsurge instead I would. If I could take a Wraithknight instead I definitely would, but I would feel bad about it, because the Wraithknight is so incorrectly costed.
I'm not the type of player to get a Hard-On for big things. For me the Stompa is no more exciting that any other unit to run. Just a Tool to win games. I'd rather we played in a meta with no super heavies at all, because they are a major Rock-Paper-Scissors unit. I know the typo in the book was a mistake. If not for ITC's changes to the cost I would never ever play the Stompa. The Typo makes it somewhat useful in competitive games. It is still terrible in friendly games, because it is a deathstar, and that isn't friendly.
My only flak for solo deffkoptas is they devour your Fast slots, and personally i always severely suffer if i dont use a bikerstar to deliver my boss. I have 10 deffkoptas and i love them lol but its hard to field more than say 2 without giving them leadership issues...at that point might as well go buggies.
Granted, if you actually can use the orkurion and still have points left over, you can field up to 10 Deffkoptas until you run out of points thanks to 1-10 Aux choices and you can take a squad of deffkoptas as an aux. Deffkoptas usually arent thought of in greentide lists though...least not in my opinion.
I actually have yet to ever use tankbustas. I have like 20 of them between boy boxes technically giving you one and 2 of the actual boxes i just never assembled (yay ebay bulk buy). Hear lots of good things about them, and since the only Elite slot thats viable outside them is MANz missiles theres bound to be slots open for'm
Admittedly, the only experience I have with my stompas is taking 3 as part of a stompa mob in an apocalypse game, with 2 regular stompas and a big mek stompa (not Buzzgob's, I actually was foolish and paid the 1000pts for a real big mek stompa). They did phenomenally well, though that was also because my opponent hadn't anticipated three of them, and chose to just ignore them instead. Also helps that we have hundreds of models on the table, too. So I've not got sufficient experience, and the bit I do have was my stompas kicking some serious ass, so maybe I'm assuming too much about how 'good' they are outside the context of such a game/formation. A regular BUzzgob stompa in a 2000 pt list may not actually fair nearly as well...and come to think of it, my big mek stompa did the least amount of damage that game (and was useful more for its D6 Fields (I rolled a 6, whcih helped). But maybe I should suck it up and try Buzzgob in a game.
How on earth do you rule a buzzgob stompa as dirty or op? Stormsurge fully upgraded is around 420-450, knights are 400-475. Buzzgob stompa is what a stompa should cost, even with the upgrades its still 550+, 860 is crazy in this meta where knight upgrades are free and stormsurges can be taken in units.
Its dirty because stompa is normally in the 800s. Even though it shouldnt cost that much, it should be 200-250 cheaper considering really all it has going for it is its got a lot of HP compared to the other non-titan supers, but it can still get wrecked by them pretty easily (multiple D missiles from a surge, IK/WK d melee swinging first)
The last time we talked about Buzzgob's stompa, we contacted forge world and all they could tell us that the Stompa was 800 points, but could not tell us how it was broken down. I would have to agree with Cranect on the cost now compared to some of the other LoW's. With the cost of Buzzgob's stompa starting at 400 and most players will buy the upgrades to push it into the 500's.
Now Buzzgob's stompa is the Big mek Stompa from Apoc book. Which in my personal opinion is one of the weakest Stompas. Your two primary weapons, Gaze of Mork and Lifta dropa, only it 33% of the time. Plus the Lifta dropa can only be used on vehicles with less than 6 hull points and is not a super heavy. If you fight someone with no vehicles, you got a useless weapon. This happened to me the last time I played Buzzgob stompa at an event. The 2nd round of the event I fount a big bug player. I finished 8th of 32. Also, now with the massive amount of D weapons players have access to that are on non-LoW units. I don't feel one bit sorry. One unit of eldar Vals battery with D cannons will kill a stompa in a single round of firing.
Just a little list I put together. Seems like it could be quite competitive.
“All da koptas”
CADZ X2
HQ zhadsnark (150)
150
Painboy (50) bike (25) bp (5) grot orderlies x2 (10)
80
TROOP
gretchin (35)
35
warBike x3 (54)
54
warBike x3 (54)
54
warbike x15 (270) nob (10) pk (25)
305
ELITE
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x7 (91) nob (10) bp (5)
106
FAST
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
FORT
Aegis defense line (50) coms relay (20)
70
TOTAL (1849)
So, if I most likely go 2nd then I deploy only the adl, grots, and the 3 man biker squads on the battle field in as much cover as possible and out of line of sight. When other forces come from reserves the bikes focus on objectives. The grots go to ground behind the defence line and keep close to the comms relay.
Turn 2 rolls around and all warkoptas filled with tankbustas will be rolled from reserves with reroll from the comms relay. They are dual roll of assault vehicles or shoot from their jinking transports.
Zhadsnark will either scout or outflank with the 15 man warbiker unit. The bike painboy will join them as well. This sub par defstar is mainly there to hid vulnerable targets.
This list focuses on one of our better units, the tankbustas. Their bomb both burst vehicles and rip apart heavy armoured infantry….and hopefully they can get you “glory hogs” if the grots and bikers can hold on in the 1st turn (and if your opponent has some vehicles). The semi bikestar is more or less a distraction, its there to keep the enemy focusing on the big scary bike boss, and not on the much deadlier flyin melta bombs.
The warkpta is a great transport. While maybe a little overpriced it is extremely fast and has some descent dakka.
Let me know what you guys think.
geargutz wrote: Just a little list I put together. Seems like it could be quite competitive.
[.....]
TOTAL (1849)
So, if I most likely go 2nd then I deploy only the adl, grots, and the 3 man biker squads on the battle field in as much cover as possible and out of line of sight. When other forces come from reserves the bikes focus on objectives. The grots go to ground behind the defence line and keep close to the comms relay.
Turn 2 rolls around and all warkoptas filled with tankbustas will be rolled from reserves with reroll from the comms relay. They are dual roll of assault vehicles or shoot from their jinking transports.
Zhadsnark will either scout or outflank with the 15 man warbiker unit. The bike painboy will join them as well. This sub par defstar is mainly there to hid vulnerable targets.
This list focuses on one of our better units, the tankbustas. Their bomb both burst vehicles and rip apart heavy armoured infantry….and hopefully they can get you “glory hogs” if the grots and bikers can hold on in the 1st turn (and if your opponent has some vehicles). The semi bikestar is more or less a distraction, its there to keep the enemy focusing on the big scary bike boss, and not on the much deadlier flyin melta bombs.
The warkpta is a great transport. While maybe a little overpriced it is extremely fast and has some descent dakka.
Let me know what you guys think.
I am a big fan of warkoptas, but they having only two HP is a bit of a drawback. Which model do you use for them?
Do you guys have any suggestion for a list vs tau?
Lately i run a list with Zhadsnark, painboy on a bike, tankbusta in gun wagons, Zhad warbikers, some ard boyz in trukks with nob (and warbosses if i take an extra CaD) and some single unit deffkopta to grab objective.
I had great success with that list but i was playing against some relatively easy list (necron without decurion, skitarii+ad mech, eldar without scatterbike or WK, SW).
I was thinking about bringing a big mek with MFF to try and protect the gunwagons and the bikes, but the ghaz mob rule worries me.
We play malestorm and i can't bring a stoompa or a VSG
Bardiel_03 wrote: Do you guys have any suggestion for a list vs tau?
Lately i run a list with Zhadsnark, painboy on a bike, tankbusta in gun wagons, Zhad warbikers, some ard boyz in trukks with nob (and warbosses if i take an extra CaD) and some single unit deffkopta to grab objective.
I had great success with that list but i was playing against some relatively easy list (necron without decurion, skitarii+ad mech, eldar without scatterbike or WK, SW).
I was thinking about bringing a big mek with MFF to try and protect the gunwagons and the bikes, but the ghaz mob rule worries me.
We play malestorm and i can't bring a stoompa or a VSG
Zhadsnarks ability to tank shock is going to be brutal against tau. I've used it to shove fire warriors right off the table. You might consider using deffkoptas as a screen for overwatch to get the 'ard boyz into combat. Basically declare the deffkopta is going to assault then the boyz. If the deffkopta's make it you can charge with the boyz and they can't over watch you. Deffkopta is going to take a lot of fire and might not event make it.
Bardiel_03 wrote: Do you guys have any suggestion for a list vs tau?
Lately i run a list with Zhadsnark, painboy on a bike, tankbusta in gun wagons, Zhad warbikers, some ard boyz in trukks with nob (and warbosses if i take an extra CaD) and some single unit deffkopta to grab objective.
I had great success with that list but i was playing against some relatively easy list (necron without decurion, skitarii+ad mech, eldar without scatterbike or WK, SW).
I was thinking about bringing a big mek with MFF to try and protect the gunwagons and the bikes, but the ghaz mob rule worries me.
We play malestorm and i can't bring a stoompa or a VSG
I forgot the Zhad tank shock ability, maybe it's time i learn how to use it
And yes, he is gonna bring the Optimised Stealth Cadre (that's why i was thinking of using the big mek with MFF to protect the gunwagons, is it viable?).
He has a stormsurge but i don't think he is gonna use it
Not sure if it'll help any, but here's a list of Orks and Tau allying
thank you KaptinBadrukk but I'm looking for advice to play against tau not with them (i don't have any tau model XD)
Pain Mob formation is actually pretty good. Once per battle you can pile in and attack in movement phase while the opponent just stands there and takes it.
If only for once, but once is all you need, particularly when you can strike again in the assault phase.
I'm getting the box now. Overall release is disappointing but its good value for what you get.
Soo.....painmob sounds awesome! No restrictions on the nobs it seems, so could this make nob bikers worth their points again? A big 30-boy mob with the deff dread, and a painboy on a bike with a squad of nob bikers all getting to attack for free with no retaliation sounds brutal
I agree, the Painmob has some potential. It might give me a slight edge in CC when throwing Boyz against Necron Warriors. Previously this resulted in a tarpit situation for the rest of the game (often, not always). However with the opportunity to put some extra attacks on the unit, and the Necrons can't hit back, I might be able to whittle them down.
In general, it helps balance out one of the issues with an drawn combat -- the lack of Furious Charge +1 Str in successive rounds of combat. Giving Orks some free attacks is nice.
I'm just laughing at the fact that Nobz can have Power Klaws striking first xD obviously that's not totally true as you have to be in combat for it to take effect but still
I am a big fan of warkoptas, but they having only two HP is a bit of a drawback. Which model do you use for them?
I worry more often about getting my warkoptas blown up, so hull points aren't so important to me. It's the jink save, speed, and dakka that I like.
I use models and other things as conversions for my warkoptas. FW warkopta page has a pic with the defkopta next to a warkopta for size comparison, so it's easier for doing decent sized conversions.
The terminator hunter killer will get a new base and will soon be orkified to "da termy blasta "
Bardiel_03 wrote: I forgot the Zhad tank shock ability, maybe it's time i learn how to use it
And yes, he is gonna bring the Optimised Stealth Cadre (that's why i was thinking of using the big mek with MFF to protect the gunwagons, is it viable?).
He has a stormsurge but i don't think he is gonna use it
Not sure if it'll help any, but here's a list of Orks and Tau allying
thank you KaptinBadrukk but I'm looking for advice to play against tau not with them (i don't have any tau model XD)
OK, I thought that might help.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Does anyone think this needs an update?
Green=Da Best
Blue=Very Good
Yellow=Average
Red=Below Average (don't take in a competitive list)
Mad Dok Grotsnik: One Scalpel Short Of A Medpack means he and any unit he joins has Fearless and Rampage. The only reason why he's not green is because he can't leave the unit until he's the last man standing.
Kaptin Badrukk: His gun is likely to kill him, and he's got the cost of 5 Flash Gitz.
Boss Zagstruk: While I've never actually played him, the only reason why he's not red is because of Da Vulcha's Klaws. Hammer of Wrath attacks with those klaws are made at Str 8 AP 2.
Boss Snikrot: An excellent way to put Kommando's exactly where you need them to be. Underwhelming on his own, when joined to a large squad of Kommandos, he becomes a force multiplier, bringing in his unit in the opponent backfield, and acting as an Anvil for your enemies to be crushed upon.
Bardiel_03 wrote: I forgot the Zhad tank shock ability, maybe it's time i learn how to use it
And yes, he is gonna bring the Optimised Stealth Cadre (that's why i was thinking of using the big mek with MFF to protect the gunwagons, is it viable?).
He has a stormsurge but i don't think he is gonna use it
Not sure if it'll help any, but here's a list of Orks and Tau allying
thank you KaptinBadrukk but I'm looking for advice to play against tau not with them (i don't have any tau model XD)
OK, I thought that might help.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Does anyone think this needs an update?
Green=Da Best
Blue=Very Good
Yellow=Average
Red=Below Average (don't take in a competitive list)
Mad Dok Grotsnik: One Scalpel Short Of A Medpack means he and any unit he joins has Fearless and Rampage. The only reason why he's not green is because he can't leave the unit until he's the last man standing.
Kaptin Badrukk: His gun is likely to kill him, and he's got the cost of 5 Flash Gitz.
Boss Zagstruk: While I've never actually played him, the only reason why he's not red is because of Da Vulcha's Klaws. Hammer of Wrath attacks with those klaws are made at Str 8 AP 2.
Boss Snikrot: An excellent way to put Kommando's exactly where you need them to be. Underwhelming on his own, when joined to a large squad of Kommandos, he becomes a force multiplier, bringing in his unit in the opponent backfield, and acting as an Anvil for your enemies to be crushed upon.
I'd put Snikrot as average if he only has a niche of getting Kommandos wgere they need to be, since Mandos aren't exactly Gork's gift to men.
Bardiel_03 wrote: I forgot the Zhad tank shock ability, maybe it's time i learn how to use it
And yes, he is gonna bring the Optimised Stealth Cadre (that's why i was thinking of using the big mek with MFF to protect the gunwagons, is it viable?).
He has a stormsurge but i don't think he is gonna use it
Not sure if it'll help any, but here's a list of Orks and Tau allying
thank you KaptinBadrukk but I'm looking for advice to play against tau not with them (i don't have any tau model XD)
OK, I thought that might help.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Does anyone think this needs an update?
Green=Da Best
Blue=Very Good
Yellow=Average
Red=Below Average (don't take in a competitive list)
Mad Dok Grotsnik: One Scalpel Short Of A Medpack means he and any unit he joins has Fearless and Rampage. The only reason why he's not green is because he can't leave the unit until he's the last man standing.
Kaptin Badrukk: His gun is likely to kill him, and he's got the cost of 5 Flash Gitz.
Boss Zagstruk: While I've never actually played him, the only reason why he's not red is because of Da Vulcha's Klaws. Hammer of Wrath attacks with those klaws are made at Str 8 AP 2.
Boss Snikrot: An excellent way to put Kommando's exactly where you need them to be. Underwhelming on his own, when joined to a large squad of Kommandos, he becomes a force multiplier, bringing in his unit in the opponent backfield, and acting as an Anvil for your enemies to be crushed upon.
I'd put Snikrot as average if he only has a niche of getting Kommandos wgere they need to be, since Mandos aren't exactly Gork's gift to men.
Green=Da Best Blue=Very Good Yellow=Average Red=Below Average (don't take in a competitive list)
Mad Dok Grotsnik: One Scalpel Short Of A Medpack means he and any unit he joins has Fearless and Rampage. The only reason why he's not green is because he can't leave the unit until he's the last man standing.
Kaptin Badrukk: His gun is likely to kill him, and he's got the cost of 5 Flash Gitz.
Boss Zagstruk: While I've never actually played him, the only reason why he's not red is because of Da Vulcha's Klaws. Hammer of Wrath attacks with those klaws are made at Str 8 AP 2.
Boss Snikrot: An excellent way to put Kommando's exactly where you need them to be. Underwhelming on his own, when joined to a large squad of Kommandos, he becomes a force multiplier, bringing in his unit in the opponent backfield, and acting as an Anvil for your enemies to be crushed upon.
Painmob rule is actually pretty good in a vacuum. Assuming theres still powerklaws in the unit, thats some hefty damage and all the shenanigans of a lost combat for the enemy. Problem is, nothing is going to survive orks for 2 assault turns unless the orks cant hurt them to begin with.
think i'd rather a super-FNP for the painmob, something we can actually use instead of something we probably wont ever get to use. I rarely, RARELY stay in combat longer than 1 turn unless im wounding on 5s/6s or its a 2+ save and i have no PKs.
its not terrible. I mean, painboys and ork boy squads are pretty commonly used anyway and to get them without having to take up CAD slot is nice. I just wish Nobs' were a little cheaper in points so they could be used a little more effectively
Yeah regular nobz are too expensive. I dont get why a butt-naked nob with a pk costs 5pts more than a MAN. Current edition took away their biker powers and did nothing to help their footwork.
yes i know they can still be bikernobz but theyre still as insanely expensive as they were in the 4th book but now they dont have an invul...yet their biker price went up to make them cost the same as though they had the invul.
Vineheart01 wrote: Painmob rule is actually pretty good in a vacuum. Assuming theres still powerklaws in the unit, thats some hefty damage and all the shenanigans of a lost combat for the enemy. Problem is, nothing is going to survive orks for 2 assault turns unless the orks cant hurt them to begin with.
think i'd rather a super-FNP for the painmob, something we can actually use instead of something we probably wont ever get to use. I rarely, RARELY stay in combat longer than 1 turn unless im wounding on 5s/6s or its a 2+ save and i have no PKs.
Necron Warriors are so durable, but put out so few attacks in CC. Even with a PK, I'm lucky to kill 2-3, but they hardly kill any of my Boyz, and their Ld 10 keeps them sticking around so combat continues turn after turn. With this buff my Boyz have a little more fun.
Dream scenario:
Fearless Ghazzy Orkurion Boyz + turn 1 Waaagh! + running MANZ + free HoW attacks + Painmobs with even more attacks on successive turns.
(nevermind the points costs, just a fun idea )
I forget, does the TWC come with their claws by default? i know they buy the stormshield but of course the price isnt insane for what its going on/what it does.
Nobz should cost 10pts and the bike shouldnt cost 27 considering they took away its walking 4+ cover w/o jink. And i feel PKs in general should be 15pts since its the only damn melee weapon we got that does anything. Bigchoppas arent "bad" but only footnobz can get them casually, and of course the whole arguement here is footnobz suck.
And believe me i know about the necron cheese. Before i boxed my orks up and said feth it i had my warbiker squad with a warboss with stikk AND a MANz missile slam into a warrior squad. They stalled me for 4 fethin turns....that shouldnt happen against that many attacks let alone that many PKs. They should only be allowed to get their reanimation against ID if a res orb is around or some other wargear they cant squeeze into every unit.
Nobz are overcosted, nob bikers even more.
The bike upgrade should cost less, boy+bikes are 18 so 12 points per bike, bike for hq cost 25, why a bike for a nob cost 27 ???
And naked nobz should cost 12 points (2 boyz) instead of 18 (3 boyz)
Vineheart01 wrote: I forget, does the TWC come with their claws by default? i know they buy the stormshield but of course the price isnt insane for what its going on/what it does.
Nobz should cost 10pts and the bike shouldnt cost 27 considering they took away its walking 4+ cover w/o jink. And i feel PKs in general should be 15pts since its the only damn melee weapon we got that does anything. Bigchoppas arent "bad" but only footnobz can get them casually, and of course the whole arguement here is footnobz suck.
And believe me i know about the necron cheese. Before i boxed my orks up and said feth it i had my warbiker squad with a warboss with stikk AND a MANz missile slam into a warrior squad. They stalled me for 4 fethin turns....that shouldnt happen against that many attacks let alone that many PKs. They should only be allowed to get their reanimation against ID if a res orb is around or some other wargear they cant squeeze into every unit.
No, they come with Bolt Pistol and CCW, but they do have Rending as standard
So theyre also deadlier in melee, better armor, Calvary rules, and have access to borderline WAAC cheese wargear for cheaper than bikernobz with a pk. Awesome balancing GW.
Honestly though, even though i wish Nobz got a price cut i'd rather they and Burnaz get divvied up into other units instead of form their own. Even at their current price, if i could slap 1-2 more nobz with pks into my boy blobs i would so do that (and i feel burnas on their own are terrible, but the gun is awesome)
It'd be awesome. But the codex was a deliberate nerf to previously strong units. Biker nobz were very good in 5 and 6. Deff rollas and kan walls were extremely good in 5.
On the other hand, lootas were great both in 5 and 6 and they got 1 pt down.
For the painmob, I would get a battlewagon through the nobz, but put the boyz x19 with nob and pk with the painboy in the battlewagon. Keep the Nobs as 3 in a trukk with maybe eavy armour and big choppas. Then hope all 3 get into combat.
This might work well coupled with the blitz brigade.
2 painmobs, blitz brigade, then a CAD for tankbustas and defkoptas.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
koooaei wrote: It'd be awesome. But the codex was a deliberate nerf to previously strong units. Biker nobz were very good in 5 and 6. Deff rollas and kan walls were extremely good in 5.
On the other hand, lootas were great both in 5 and 6 and they got 1 pt down.
And then put in the heavy slot....I consider that a nerf.
yeah lootas in the heavy slot killed their use for me. i havnt touched them since. Elites are almost untouched unless youre spamming tankbustas or manz missiles but the heavy slot is usually packed regardless of your strat (wagons, mek gunz, or *shudders* walkers)
Cleatus wrote: Necron Warriors are so durable, but put out so few attacks in CC. Even with a PK, I'm lucky to kill 2-3, but they hardly kill any of my Boyz, and their Ld 10 keeps them sticking around so combat continues turn after turn. With this buff my Boyz have a little more fun.
It's a pretty expensive tax (deff dread) just so you can kill 2-3 necron warriors, once. The dread will probably get gaussed before it's usefull, and those 80+ points could have been spent on 5 lootas, which kill about 1 warrior per turn.
So has the debate been settled on whether or not ICs get benefits of a formation? If I have a warboss in the unit of nobs from the painmob, does the warboss get to make the extra attack?
Icculus wrote: So has the debate been settled on whether or not ICs get benefits of a formation? If I have a warboss in the unit of nobs from the painmob, does the warboss get to make the extra attack?
The key word is "unit from the formation". While you can have a warboss in a unit from the pain mob he is still not from the formation. I would say no.
It sounds great on paper, but like others have pointed out, not much is going to survive two rounds of ork assault if you're kited out for that. Still not terrible, and it would give me an excuse to finally take a deff dread (it's my favorite ork model but the rules are just awful) but the nob squad kills it. If it was perhaps a MANz squad then I would jump on this formation in a heartbeat because I basically field all this minus the deff dread already.
Icculus wrote: So has the debate been settled on whether or not ICs get benefits of a formation? If I have a warboss in the unit of nobs from the painmob, does the warboss get to make the extra attack?
Not really. Noone knows.
Also, deff dread is awesome in small games. It will just become useless later on.
I personally use neither walkers, nor wagons. But often run double cad, so, there's always place for lootas.
The waaagh is army wide so as long as you have the formation that lets you call it then you can waaagh first turn. The painboy formation from the get started box only lets the units in the formation attack during the movement phase.
It was the same with the Ork horde formation in codex orks. The waaagh every turn is not restricted in any way to the formation. The special rule waagh says it simple and plain, all models with the ere we go special rule gets to both run and assault during a waaagh.
I have never played against another ork player, but it should affect both armies?.Or does it say friendly units???
geargutz wrote: Just a little list I put together. Seems like it could be quite competitive.
“All da koptas”
CADZ X2
HQ zhadsnark (150)
150
Painboy (50) bike (25) bp (5) grot orderlies x2 (10)
80
TROOP
gretchin (35)
35
warBike x3 (54)
54
warBike x3 (54)
54
warbike x15 (270) nob (10) pk (25)
305
ELITE
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x7 (91) nob (10) bp (5)
106
FAST
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
FORT
Aegis defense line (50) coms relay (20)
70
TOTAL (1849)
So, if I most likely go 2nd then I deploy only the adl, grots, and the 3 man biker squads on the battle field in as much cover as possible and out of line of sight. When other forces come from reserves the bikes focus on objectives. The grots go to ground behind the defence line and keep close to the comms relay.
Turn 2 rolls around and all warkoptas filled with tankbustas will be rolled from reserves with reroll from the comms relay. They are dual roll of assault vehicles or shoot from their jinking transports.
Zhadsnark will either scout or outflank with the 15 man warbiker unit. The bike painboy will join them as well. This sub par defstar is mainly there to hid vulnerable targets.
This list focuses on one of our better units, the tankbustas. Their bomb both burst vehicles and rip apart heavy armoured infantry….and hopefully they can get you “glory hogs” if the grots and bikers can hold on in the 1st turn (and if your opponent has some vehicles). The semi bikestar is more or less a distraction, its there to keep the enemy focusing on the big scary bike boss, and not on the much deadlier flyin melta bombs.
The warkpta is a great transport. While maybe a little overpriced it is extremely fast and has some descent dakka.
Let me know what you guys think.
Your PainBoy on bike is under costed by 10 points. Also, you need another Grot Squad for min troop choice for your second CAD.
So you know how tyranids had their most recent codex, then about a year later got a drop spore added via datasheet/new model?
What if orks got a Rok model that worked just like that? Gave us a new way to deploy our mobs and dreads? Would something like that breathe life into deff dreads, or be useful for deep striking boy mobs? Obviously it's just a wishlist but i think it would be awesome.
Sorry, I'm just going to drop in here (without reading virtually anything and not caring about the current conversations going on (sue me)) but I'd like to ask about the current competitiveness of the Kustom BattleFortress.
Fully kitted out, this thing costs more than a Baneblade but is it worth the points?
In 7th, what with Escalation etc., is the Battlefortress an acceptable LOW?
Also, how would you kit one out if you wanted to squeeze out as much bang for your buck as you can?
Otto Weston wrote: Sorry, I'm just going to drop in here (without reading virtually anything and not caring about the current conversations going on (sue me)) but I'd like to ask about the current competitiveness of the Kustom BattleFortress.
Fully kitted out, this thing costs more than a Baneblade but is it worth the points?
In 7th, what with Escalation etc., is the Battlefortress an acceptable LOW?
Also, how would you kit one out if you wanted to squeeze out as much bang for your buck as you can?
Thanks
It is a LoW and accepted at ITC events. It works great for a delivery system for large units. You can load it it with some pretty awesome weapons. Currently mine has a supa-kannon and 2 zzap kannons on it. I use the supa kannon to take out armor, the zzap kannons are really there to disable blast shooting vehicles (Like the scorpius whirlwind) You can also use it to thunderblitz units around on the table.
Thunderblitz is a rare rule and its pretty damn strong. I dont get why Thunderblitz still just happens before resolving the tankshock/ram while a Deffrolla now requires the defending player to perform a suicidal DoG attempt before getting hit.
Battlefortress is probably the only one that actually can abuse thunderblitz. All the other supers are either a walker or doesnt want to move up the field.
Speaking of which i just noticed thats not on the website anymore. Sadface....
Speaking of which i just noticed thats not on the website anymore. Sadface....
Be glad the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT still is on the webstore. If the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT disappears off the FW webstore, then I will do the following:
Spoiler:
1. Flip multiple tables
2. Post a thread about the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT meme
3. Hold a funeral and visitation service for the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT
4. Write a petition to bring back the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT
Let's hope the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT doesn't disappear.
I think that if Orks get a Deep Strikey thing, it won't be Rokks (which are more like Orbital Bombardments, anyways) and more of a Tellyporta upgrade- which, isn't that already a thing? Can't Nobz or something Tellyporta into battle sometimes?
when the ghaz supplement came out, I was running 30 man boy blobs with shootas and usually was able to deep strike 1 of the 4 of them in my list. I was awesome. Now for apoc there is an asset that allows you to deep strike a apoc formation. If you do this, I suggest having another player have prescience coordinates. That way you don't scatter.
Vineheart01 wrote: Thunderblitz is a rare rule and its pretty damn strong. I dont get why Thunderblitz still just happens before resolving the tankshock/ram while a Deffrolla now requires the defending player to perform a suicidal DoG attempt before getting hit.
Battlefortress is probably the only one that actually can abuse thunderblitz. All the other supers are either a walker or doesnt want to move up the field.
Speaking of which i just noticed thats not on the website anymore. Sadface....
Wait, do Super Heavy Walkers not have Thunderblitz? I was 'Thunderblitz'd by a Big Mek Stompa at a local tourney and I'm curious. I just assumed he could and we didn't even bother looking up the table so I just said roll a 2+ and you'll pop my drop pod.
It really didn't matter, the outcome of the game was set in stone even with him popping a pod a turn. They are free anyhow
Vineheart01 wrote: Thunderblitz is a rare rule and its pretty damn strong. I dont get why Thunderblitz still just happens before resolving the tankshock/ram while a Deffrolla now requires the defending player to perform a suicidal DoG attempt before getting hit.
Battlefortress is probably the only one that actually can abuse thunderblitz. All the other supers are either a walker or doesnt want to move up the field.
Speaking of which i just noticed thats not on the website anymore. Sadface....
Wait, do Super Heavy Walkers not have Thunderblitz? I was 'Thunderblitz'd by a Big Mek Stompa at a local tourney and I'm curious. I just assumed he could and we didn't even bother looking up the table so I just said roll a 2+ and you'll pop my drop pod.
It really didn't matter, the outcome of the game was set in stone even with him popping a pod a turn. They are free anyhow
Super heavy tanks have thunderblitz. Super heavy walkers have stomp attacks. The Lord of skulls is a tracked super heavy walker. He can thunderblitz, but does not have stomps. Looks like you are a dirty ork but its okay we will forgive you.
Vineheart01 wrote: Thunderblitz is a rare rule and its pretty damn strong. I dont get why Thunderblitz still just happens before resolving the tankshock/ram while a Deffrolla now requires the defending player to perform a suicidal DoG attempt before getting hit.
Battlefortress is probably the only one that actually can abuse thunderblitz. All the other supers are either a walker or doesnt want to move up the field.
Speaking of which i just noticed thats not on the website anymore. Sadface....
Wait, do Super Heavy Walkers not have Thunderblitz? I was 'Thunderblitz'd by a Big Mek Stompa at a local tourney and I'm curious. I just assumed he could and we didn't even bother looking up the table so I just said roll a 2+ and you'll pop my drop pod.
It really didn't matter, the outcome of the game was set in stone even with him popping a pod a turn. They are free anyhow
Super heavy tanks have thunderblitz. Super heavy walkers have stomp attacks. The Lord of skulls is a tracked super heavy walker. He can thunderblitz, but does not have stomps. Looks like you are a dirty ork but its okay we will forgive you.
HAHAHA. Thanks but I was the dirty Imperial player with free transports I was playing against an Ork player that didn't know his rules very well. But it was the first round of the tourney so we were both having fun with it!
Edit: I frequent this post all the time as I bought the newest version of the Ork Codex (not the Waaagh update), and I'm always hoping to catch the newest fad! hehe.
Stomp is "technically" stronger than thunderblitz since a roll of 6 is flatout "go away" for stomp and for thunderblitz its just a bunch of S10 AP1 hits.
Only reason i say "technically" is while it cant bypass EW or reliably take out high toughess multiwounds, you CAN thunderblitz multiple units if you are in the right position. It behaves as tankshock does after resolving the thunderblitz table, which means they get out of the way and you continue on 12" and hit another unit. That and your sheer size lets you snag two units side by side easier.
Could be wrong, but im pretty sure they dont fire snaps afterwords either, since even a fast vehicle tankshocking must snapfire.
geargutz wrote: Just a little list I put together. Seems like it could be quite competitive.
“All da koptas”
CADZ X2
HQ zhadsnark (150)
150
Painboy (50) bike (25) bp (5) grot orderlies x2 (10)
80
TROOP
gretchin (35)
35
warBike x3 (54)
54
warBike x3 (54)
54
warbike x15 (270) nob (10) pk (25)
305
ELITE
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x7 (91) nob (10) bp (5)
106
FAST
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
FORT
Aegis defense line (50) coms relay (20)
70
TOTAL (1849)
So, if I most likely go 2nd then I deploy only the adl, grots, and the 3 man biker squads on the battle field in as much cover as possible and out of line of sight. When other forces come from reserves the bikes focus on objectives. The grots go to ground behind the defence line and keep close to the comms relay.
Turn 2 rolls around and all warkoptas filled with tankbustas will be rolled from reserves with reroll from the comms relay. They are dual roll of assault vehicles or shoot from their jinking transports.
Zhadsnark will either scout or outflank with the 15 man warbiker unit. The bike painboy will join them as well. This sub par defstar is mainly there to hid vulnerable targets.
This list focuses on one of our better units, the tankbustas. Their bomb both burst vehicles and rip apart heavy armoured infantry….and hopefully they can get you “glory hogs” if the grots and bikers can hold on in the 1st turn (and if your opponent has some vehicles). The semi bikestar is more or less a distraction, its there to keep the enemy focusing on the big scary bike boss, and not on the much deadlier flyin melta bombs.
The warkpta is a great transport. While maybe a little overpriced it is extremely fast and has some descent dakka.
Let me know what you guys think.
Your PainBoy on bike is under costed by 10 points. Also, you need another Grot Squad for min troop choice for your second CAD.
If zhadsnark is warlord then bikes are troops in your "army", it doesn't specify cad or detach.
Thx for the catch on the painbow. I'll just get rid of the orderlies.
geargutz wrote: Just a little list I put together. Seems like it could be quite competitive.
“All da koptas”
CADZ X2
HQ zhadsnark (150)
150
Painboy (50) bike (25) bp (5) grot orderlies x2 (10)
80
TROOP
gretchin (35)
35
warBike x3 (54)
54
warBike x3 (54)
54
warbike x15 (270) nob (10) pk (25)
305
ELITE
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x7 (91) nob (10) bp (5)
106
FAST
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
FORT
Aegis defense line (50) coms relay (20)
70
TOTAL (1849)
So, if I most likely go 2nd then I deploy only the adl, grots, and the 3 man biker squads on the battle field in as much cover as possible and out of line of sight. When other forces come from reserves the bikes focus on objectives. The grots go to ground behind the defence line and keep close to the comms relay.
Turn 2 rolls around and all warkoptas filled with tankbustas will be rolled from reserves with reroll from the comms relay. They are dual roll of assault vehicles or shoot from their jinking transports.
Zhadsnark will either scout or outflank with the 15 man warbiker unit. The bike painboy will join them as well. This sub par defstar is mainly there to hid vulnerable targets.
This list focuses on one of our better units, the tankbustas. Their bomb both burst vehicles and rip apart heavy armoured infantry….and hopefully they can get you “glory hogs” if the grots and bikers can hold on in the 1st turn (and if your opponent has some vehicles). The semi bikestar is more or less a distraction, its there to keep the enemy focusing on the big scary bike boss, and not on the much deadlier flyin melta bombs.
The warkpta is a great transport. While maybe a little overpriced it is extremely fast and has some descent dakka.
Let me know what you guys think.
Your PainBoy on bike is under costed by 10 points. Also, you need another Grot Squad for min troop choice for your second CAD.
If zhadsnark is warlord then bikes are troops in your "army", it doesn't specify cad or detach.
Thx for the catch on the painbow. I'll just get rid of the orderlies.
I understand the "army" argument but I think that was originally written before the whole multiple CADs. I could be wrong. I'd let other people play it that way but my Zhadsnark list is triple CAD and has two Biker units as troops and four grot units. Just in case some oppnenet feels different. Would be a non-issue if people were cool with Unbound lists.
I don't understand the Great Derp detachment. Orks have already had fantastic units that are far superior to anything the Great Derp detachment lists can put out with their formation handicaps.
W!G already had a savage formation, which was bully boyz. Problem is that the stuff that Codex: Orks had looked great on paper, but looks pretty horrifying by contrast on my bank statement.
3 units of MANz *5 = 600
Why not, add a Blitz Brigade? 5 Battlewagons with scouts, big shootas, and reinforced rams. 600 pts.
So, I've got 2 extra battlewagons. Take a CAD.
One painboy, 19 boyz, one nob w/ PK/BP, 204
One painboy, 19 boyz, one nob w/ PK/BP, 204
242 left over for three heavy support slots, 3 fast attack slots, or 3 elite slots for 1850. Replace two boyz with Meks for challenges, add three killsaws. Is that better than a Great Derp? You tell me. Or switch out a Painboy, throw a Megaboss w/ Da Lucky Stikk in.
Problem is, nobody is gonna play this because:
Spoiler:
You could always just try Zhadsnark Da Rippa, two 15 man units of Warbikers, a Painboy, with as many Lootas until you're blue in the face, all behind an ADL?
Is a 17 man unit with Toughness 5, a 4+ armor save, a 2+ jink save, that can snapshot its 51 TL S5 shots at a flyer rear armor and then jink at 2+ better or worse than a Goff Killmob/Waagh formation?
Or how about a 17 man unit of warbikers with WS5 from a DLS Warboss w/ a PK and FNP from a biker painboy? Two basic units of Grots for CAD behind ADL with Mek Guns. Is that better or worse than a Great Waaagh detachment?
The reality of the situation is, if I had 30 thousand dollars to spend on models, there's no question what I would be running. That's the limiting factor to Orkz.
There's no way that with unlimited funds, I would think of running 6 minimum strength trukk mobs, a unit of Trukk nobs, and two units of gretchin and think that the unit is great because it can run D6" before assaulting. There is no way. That unit is garbage in comparison to the things I mentioned earlier.
trukks are great if you have bikers or wagons in front to draw the main firepower attention. If you dont have either and youre just having a random trukk or spam trukks, gl theyre going to die in seconds.
I'm not really a fan of trukks.
Trukks = Death traps.
We need a medium wagon between trukks and Battle wagons.
With larger transport capacity than trukks and maybe a higher front armour.
For the record I have 15 trukks. Go big or don't go at all.
Mostly my experience has been half my trukks in any given list are pop'd in my deployment zone. Honestly, that's my largest problem with trukks.
My turn one is always going to be a full 24" toward my opponent minimal shooting and the lads who survived their trukks exploding who are able, will be moving and running to keep up.
Trukks die yes however in the great waaagh detachment you only need one turn for them to get into a first turn charge range.
And spamming truk boyz makes it hard for your opponent to hit everything in one turn of long range shooting. I find this list works best like this.
Take trukks with rokkits and spam them as such.
Orks 1850 Pts
WAAGH!-Band
Warboss, Mega armour and Lukky stick 1
Mek – 1
Nobs, big choppa 3
Trukk 1
Council of WAAGH!
Ghaz – 1
Mad Dok – 1
Big Mek Big Choppa, Eavy Armor 1
Warboss Big Choppa, Eavy Armor 1
Warboss Big Choppa, Eavy Armor 1
Nobs w Waaagh banner– 3
Totals 103
That’s a lot of rokkits (19) and powerklaws (9) and big choppas (6) and two decent beatstick units. It's pure MSU and only misses the ob secured. Ghaz will likely outflank since he gets two rerollable warlord traits in his formation. Alternatively you can drop ghaz formation and just make the warlord in the waagh band your warboss and hope you get fearless with your reroll trait.
its also banking on turn 1. If it works thats very powerful but if you dont get first turn 3-4 of those trukks will explode turn 1 and there goes your entire game.
A race shouldnt have to have first turn to be viable. But i guess they do in GW's eyes
My last good game involving trukks actully went better than my usual norm, I did get first turn and trukk rushed the IG. on one side I managed to get 3 or 4 trukks well past half the table and a few of those into his deployment Zone. That list was very MSU. Oddly enough I had a Gorkanought and a Morkanought in the list. The Morkanought made it across the board and killed Pask and his tank squadron. I even killed some deep strikers with a few Grot mobs and some burna boys!
I Loves them burna boys!
On top of that we have the following odd transports that are not really worth it. -Big Squiggoths transport monster -Gorkanauts transport walker -Stompa's transport super heavy walker -Gargantuan squiggoth transport Gargantuan walker -Warkopta transport skimmer -Bomma transport non low superheavy flier for storm boyz only
So in reality we have tons of transports they are just all kept out of the codex for some reason :\
warhead01 wrote: I'm not really a fan of trukks.
Trukks = Death traps.
We need a medium wagon between trukks and Battle wagons.
With larger transport capacity than trukks and maybe a higher front armour.
I used to like that idea, but after the Gorka/Morkanaut fiasco I'd rather not see yet another redundant unit in our roster. So, why not giving trukks larger transport capacity then? Trukks hail from an era when 10 was the standard unit size, but that was like 15 years ago. A transport capacity of 20 would put Trukks back in line with the rest of the army, and help the transported unit withstand the (inevitable) destruction of their vehicle, even if they take a few wounds in the process.
Orks should be able to exceed the capacity of the vehicle by 1/2 its max, but if they do then it takes danger tests every time it moves. Since we already use rams every single time we take a trukk or wagon, not THAT big of a risk and it lets us actually move our bigger boy blobz around that W!G is kinda forcing us to bring.
Have anyone here any experience with playing big squiggoths and Gargantuan squiggoths with the current rules? I like the fact that they don't explode and can fight back. Also I guess you can fire with full BS even if they moved? Maybe even flash gitz can use their Gitfindas? I'm planning on buying both kinds when I got the money.
Trukks die yes however in the great waaagh detachment you only need one turn for them to get into a first turn charge range.
And spamming truk boyz makes it hard for your opponent to hit everything in one turn of long range shooting. I find this list works best like this.
Take trukks with rokkits and spam them as such.
Orks 1850 Pts
WAAGH!-Band
Warboss, Mega armour and Lukky stick 1
Mek – 1
Nobs, big choppa 3
Trukk 1
Council of WAAGH!
Ghaz – 1
Mad Dok – 1
Big Mek Big Choppa, Eavy Armor 1
Warboss Big Choppa, Eavy Armor 1
Warboss Big Choppa, Eavy Armor 1
Nobs w Waaagh banner– 3
Totals 103
That’s a lot of rokkits (19) and powerklaws (9) and big choppas (6) and two decent beatstick units. It's pure MSU and only misses the ob secured. Ghaz will likely outflank since he gets two rerollable warlord traits in his formation. Alternatively you can drop ghaz formation and just make the warlord in the waagh band your warboss and hope you get fearless with your reroll trait.
You're missing the transport for the Council. Are you using a trukk?
Also, what about reinforced rams on the trukks?
I'm getting 1858 on what you listed with no rams and no trukk for the council.
Brokk wrote: Have anyone here any experience with playing big squiggoths and Gargantuan squiggoths with the current rules? I like the fact that they don't explode and can fight back. Also I guess you can fire with full BS even if they moved? Maybe even flash gitz can use their Gitfindas? I'm planning on buying both kinds when I got the money.
Big squiggoths move like monsters, just ask yourselves if you would like to spend ~200 points on that. ( I wouldn't)
On top of it is isn't really that sturdy sure it is sturdier then a trukk but 6W at T7 isn't that tough. The big bonus is that never explode and are simple to get into cover.
Can they fire at full BS? no one knows for sure. There are no rules really for it. The best way to handle it is just assume that the unit is in a open topped vehicle.
For the big squiggoths you fire at full since you basically treat it as a vehicle. The gargantuan if you only move up to 6 you fire full otherwise you snapfire since it is also treated like an open topped vehicle. They are a lot of fun. While the big squiggoths are not the most effective with the 3+ armor they function just like other walking MCs so if you treat them as such they can get something done even if that something is just being a meatshield. The gargantuan I've only used to pick on stuff weaker than it while transporting meganobz with a MFF. I do want to try filling it with burnas though. I don't know if it can take something like a knight yet but if your lucky it might be able to. It is a neat transport and if you put the MFF in it then it is touch to kill.
Vineheart01 wrote: its also banking on turn 1. If it works thats very powerful but if you dont get first turn 3-4 of those trukks will explode turn 1 and there goes your entire game.
A race shouldnt have to have first turn to be viable. But i guess they do in GW's eyes
This is true. But we are a race that doesn't get what we should, so we have to make due. If we lose that die roll we lose, but if we win it, we need to try to win 100% of the time. That's the Orks challenge.
If we lose the roll, we should just concentrate on losing as fast as we can so we can start another game.
The only thing I put in trukks are 3 MANz for a MANz missile. Twelve sluggas alone won't do much work in assault, though 12 shootas in a trukk might get some damage done. Issue is they explode to easily and you're going to lose a lot of boyz. Battlewagons hold more boyz, are a lot harder, and they're actually pretty cheap in the grand scheme of things. Just don't expect it to do any work once it's dropped its payload.
I don't know who all has seen but I think the new objectives on the ghazzy update are interesting. My favorite by far is dead kunnin I think it was called.
So I played against some wulfen today and, after hearing about how they have everything we dream about, was obviously nervous.
They basically ate my biker squad, who have yet to do anything but score one point in a game once. Granted, it was a game winning point, but seriously, they get shot off the table so damn fast.
Anyway, I managed to deal with them with lootas. Honestly, as long as you have lootas on the table, I wouldn't be too scared of them. Lootas are s7 ap4, which denies them their armor save and wounds on 2+. Lootas also throw enough shots to not care about the 3++ stormshields a few will be carrying. KMKs are great, too, which I threw at the pack. Only one was left, which I sent in a squad of boyz to clean up. Basically, my strategy for wulfen is going to be shoot the gak out of them with lootas and then charge them once they're weakened.
Still burns that space marines get a melee unit better than any melee unit we have.
First match was against chaos demons of slaanesh. The painboyz themselves put in work, but the formation rule only came into play once and didnt actually net me any kills at all. Granted it was about 10 boyz, a painboy and a nob trying to hurt a keeper of secrets so it was not likely they would get through its 5 up invuln and 4 up FNP (he rolled the gift for it).
Deff Dreads never lived long enough to use it. Nobs I didnt put any points into (overcosted) so they never got to use it.
I did win the match barely on objectives going 9 - 8 but I utterly lost the actually fighting. Stole the victory thanks to game ending on a 5.
Next game was against Chaos Space Marines. This time I put a painboy on a bike with the bikers. Again the pain mob formation itself did nothing as it only got to come into play once. It was 12 boys with 1 PK nob against 3 termies. Inflicted 1 PK wound that was saved with an invuln.
Managed to win that match easier however (My deff dreads got screwed pretty bad. One got immobed turn 1 and just had to take pot shots at cultists the whole game with a big shoota and the other got immobed by a melta against some havocs who would later krak him to death.
This match was really close and ended at the end of the top of turn 4 when my Biker warbosses chopped the head right off of his chaos lords shoulders with his HeadWoppas killchoppa. He conceeded after that, but the match still coulda gone either way.
The pain mob itself I think its neat, but its not good IMO. You have to take a nob squad which I think is not point efficient on their own and a deff dread which IMO I dont see myself taking again. However it was only two games so I cant say I used it a lot, but first impressions are that its just too situational and the unit taxes make it something I plan to avoid.
You know what a Posterchild is? It's the race that's spawned a million memes that've spread into the popular geek consciousness. I was talking to a guy the other day who had no idea what Warhammer 40K was, but he described shooting guns as 'Dakkadakka'. People who play Orcs in cosplay or LARP or Boffer, you know what they yell before charging? WAAAGHH!! Red wunz go fasta, pile-on boyz, Neva Enuff Dakka... Heck, even the other races in-game have started writing in a subtly Orky fashion (Flakk rounds, anyone?)
That's a Poster Child- not the half-baked, over-pauldron'd, vanilla a-f boys in blue that GW's Spaec Mehrines are.
It really seems like the Painmob was intended for large mobs, 20-30 strong. I have yet to play a game with it but I wouldn't expect much from it in a trukk mob (they don't usually do anything for me anyway unless I'm assaulting them into small to midsized softer units like Guard).
I have a list that uses two of them at max boyz with an unbound warboss thrown in for the Waaagh. It's a small list (seems like Painmob is the Ork small-game solution rather than the great waaagh-band) I'm excited to try it out:
Spoiler:
Painboy50 Painboy50
30 Boyz: Boss Nob (power klaw) 215 30 Boyz: Boss Nob (power klaw; bosspole) 220
4 Nobz: kombi-weapon with skorcha; 3× big choppa 97 4 Nobz: kombi-weapon with skorcha; 3× big choppa 97
Deff Dread: rokkit launcha; power klaw 90 Deff Dread: rokkit launcha; power klaw 90
You know what a Posterchild is? It's the race that's spawned a million memes that've spread into the popular geek consciousness. I was talking to a guy the other day who had no idea what Warhammer 40K was, but he described shooting guns as 'Dakkadakka'. People who play Orcs in cosplay or LARP or Boffer, you know what they yell before charging? WAAAGHH!! Red wunz go fasta, pile-on boyz, Neva Enuff Dakka... Heck, even the other races in-game have started writing in a subtly Orky fashion (Flakk rounds, anyone?)
That's a Poster Child- not the half-baked, over-pauldron'd, vanilla a-f boys in blue that GW's Spaec Mehrines are.
Orks are the posterchild's b****. Theyre known as much as space marines because theyre usually on all the advertisements getting butchered. Only reason they would be known more than space marines is because ork fanbase is a lot more funny and outspoken while the Space Mahreens dont do a damn thing to advertise they play an army. I dont know how many times ive uttered the phrase "Orks is the master race" when i overhear something related to 40k or orks of any setting not just 40k.
Have to agree with Vineheart01. The only memorable things that SM (BA are alright I guess ) produced are spess mahreens, perfection in blue and METAL BAWKES
i never got into dawn of war so i cant comment on marines vs orks in that, but in the game Space Marine even though it was clearly a marine game since the main character was a captain, almost all the memorable gimicks were Ork related.
Still say that fight with the MA Boss felt authentic as hell. One hit, dead, but hes slow enough to predict.
So much crap from that game i wish were normal Ork rules, while i cant think of a damn thing space marines dont already have that were in that game i'd like to see in the tabletop.
It just proves that the Ork crap is more memorable and cool, but are nothing more than the target dummy for space marines.
I am building my army again and have decided that I would like to have a traditional heavy tank. I consider battle wagons and landraiders medium tanks in the current meta.
The most obvious candidate seems to be the Kill Bursta. I used to use them a lot in appoc battles, but spending 400 pts for a single 7" sD blast doesn't seem to be such a good idea any more. What do you guys use? The other obvious answer would be stompa but I would like to have a tank, and not aged titan.
Hellstorm flamer one is fun and surprisingly decent from what i've heard. It also provides an opportunity to go nuts and ride forward to overrun stuff and than explode gloriously not being overly expensive for the job.
oldzoggy wrote: Yeah the Flamebelcha is wonderful does any of our non stompa super heavies have it ?
The Killkrusha has some good options.
Hellstorm template, low str but shred and rending.
So it'll be wounding on a 6 most times, but with a re-roll that'll be AP2 (and ignore cover obviously).
Now that trukks have come up I feel like I have something to say haha. I have used everything from trucks to gun wagons to battle wagons with everything from Gretchin to meganobz. I have found the following:
Trucks:
Good if you get the infiltration rule on strategic table because they are dedicated transport to most things.
Can turbo boost into opponents face turn 1, and if numerous enough they cans do anything to prevent themselves being smashed turn 2.
Good to save heavy slots for other things.
You MUST ONLY put either Eavy armour boyz or mega nobz inside because when they go boom, you don't want the dudes inside to die!
However, if there are more juicy targets then softer units like t shirt boyz can be used too.
Gun Wagons:
Sadly take a heavy slot
Can be taken in squads of up to 3 though!!! This means swapping nearest wagon to spread hull point damage which is very cheeky.
Has 13 front armour and 12 side!!!! What the hell!!!
Around double the cost of a Trukk.
Should be used with more valuable orks such as tank bustas or lootas who will want protection and will get more value from the armour.
Are VERY annoying to deal with.
Battlwagons:
Only really useful for delivering elite units like large Manz squads or a boy squad with Warboss etc.
Can also be used with tank bustas or ranged squad.
If it's delivering units turn 2, then give it some guns to do something useful when it's done its job besides tank shocking.
Are very expensive so make sure they have a useful role to play.
As an example I have made a 1750 list. I will explain transport options at the bottom
Spoiler:
CAD 1
+ No Force Org Slot +
Mek
+ HQ +
Warboss, Bosspole, Cybork Body, Da Lucky Stikk, Mega Armour
+ Elites +
Meganobz, 3 Kombi- Skorcha, boss pole
TRUCK, ram
10 Tankbustas, Bosspole
10 Tankbustas, Bosspole
+ Troops +
15 Boyz, Power Klaw
10 Gretchin, Squig Hound
10 Gretchin, Squig Hound
+ Heavy Support +
Battlewagon, Reinforced Ram, 4x Rokkit Launchas
2 Gun Wagons,
Reinforced Rams
CAD 2
+ HQ +
Big Mek, Da Finkin' Kap
Warlord
+ Elites +
3 Meganobz, 3 Kombi- Skorcha, boss pole
TRUCK, ram
3 Meganobz, 3 Kombi- Skorcha, boss pole
TRUCK, ram
+ Troops +
10 boyz, nob, power Klaw, boss pole
TRUCK, ram
10 boyz, nob, power Klaw, boss pole
TRUCK, ram
OK,
So, the 15 boyz, Mek, big Mek and Warboss go in the battle wagon because it is transporting valuable, potentially game winning damage across the table to the enemy. It also has a warlord inside (the big Mek) who can choose to camp in the vehicle if it's safer, which has 4 rokkits to do some damage with here and there.
Next, the 2 units of tank bustas are in gun wagons because they need more protection and could be a prime target for the enemy, especially if they have vehicles or monsters that need stomping. The vehicles can happily stay alive for the most part without much problem, especially because the enemy AV will likely be shooting other things, which brings me to...
Meganobz and boyz are in trukks. Ideally I'd like everything in gun wagons as it ensures their delivery. However, points do not permit, and since I have da finkin cap, there is a 55% chance of infiltrating 3 of these units closer ... *evil laugh* ... Ahem! The meganobz all turbo boost first turn, at which point it doesn't matter if the trucks blow up as the 2+ armour and 2 wounds each should survive an exploding truck. The fact there are 3 squads of Manz means the risk of putting boyz in trukks is not as bad because hey, if they are shooting boyz, then they aren't shooting Manz. And considering the amount of heavy flamers, I don't think swarms of nidz, marines or even terminators will trade well with them haha.
I pretty much agree with everything you've said here. Normal boyz are too squishy for trukks (and I find that 12 boyz isn't going to get much work done anyway), and in fact I don't like putting boyz in trukks at all. Those are for MANz missiles only. I also pack my battlewagons full of boyz with a warboss, but I honestly don't put many weapons on them. Two big shootas is all, and I find that it's enough once the payload has been dropped. Either the enemy shoots at a vehicle that has outlived its usefulness, or I get to drive a rather large model around to block things.
I don't like Trukk boyz at all. On average 5 will die when it blows up (assuming you have 12 in it) without ard boy upgrades and I like ard boyz even less because I feel they are not cost efficient.
I dont really use trukks much at all to be honest. I really, really like gun wagons however and my FLGS is cool with me using them. They are so much better for carrying units than the trukks and while they are 2x as costly they are easily worth it. The twin linked big shoota is also nice to have. They are only capacity ten, but thats enough for a full Mega nob squad and more than enough for all the burna boyz or tankbustas you would want.
Trukks are best suited for Ard boyz and manz, as has been said, but you can get away mixing and matching footslog and speed units. I only have two trukks but opponents have to decide what they want to kill first turn (if I have them on the board during deployment). Do they focus on whittling down a 20/25/30 strong boyz mob or the trukks that will be in their faces?
What's fun is to send boyz up the board turn 1 then bring a few trukks in as reserves, especially if they're manz missiles. Typically by the time you get boyz where they need to be, or close to it, there will be a lot less shooting free to deal with the trukks coming on the board.
Bardiel_03 wrote: I forgot the Zhad tank shock ability, maybe it's time i learn how to use it
Darn, I use Zhadsnark in a tourney this weekend and forgot about tankshocking altogether.
warhead01 wrote: I'm not really a fan of trukks.
Trukks = Death traps.
Trukks are not so much a deathtrap as you might think. Use them for Manz or 'ard boyz and you are fine. Futhermore if you use them in numbers a lot of them will eventually arrive, the more if you use some scenery or bikes as cover. On the other hand I have been using a trukk for my Flash Gitz during a 3 game tourney this weekend and not once were they blown out of it.
You forgot the Junka 11 (12)/11 (12) /10 for 60 (80) pts. Which has some nice weapon options.
Of all the onees listed I prefer the Big trakks and invariably use two of them to transport my more precious units. The heavy plates work wonders to negate shaken/stunned and get your lads where they are needed. It is also a nice firing-platform for Flash Gitz, much preferable to the expensive Battlewagon.
Here's me talking about Flash Gitz again. I know the concensus is they are bad because they are not reliable. However I've had some considerable succes with a 5 men squad over the past games. I use Badrukk's FGs from the Sanctus Reach supplement, which gives you +1 LD and gives the serge a S5 AP1, gets hot, Snazzgun. Which is nice as it makes the unit more reliable. Do not forget to pack some ammo runts though.
- In one game they whiped a squad of 'legions of the damned' in one turn. Next turn they downed a landspeeder storm and wiped out the scouts in it all in the same turn forcing a jink on a stormraven the next turn.
- In another game they killed a Broadside, took two wounds from a ripptide in turn two and in killed farsight in the next turn.
- The last game saw them wiping a 9 men 'ard nob-squad in one turn of shooting forcing the enemy not to come within range for the entire remainder of the game.
- They however were more then ineffective against a unit of 8 cryptecs with (never heard of those).
You are off a bit on the mekboy junka. Its normally 12/12/10 and the 'eavy plates add a +1 to front and side for 13/13/10. <- ignore this. Its entered wrong into my battlescribe. I just double checked the FAQ about it.
Its just moving flat out up the field as fast as possible (like a missile) expecting the trukk and 3 manz to smash into a target of your choosing. No one really has the option to ignore a trukk full of meganobz with killsaws flying at them so its a relatively effective distraction that can do some good damage if and when it reaches something tasty.
FlashyGit wrote: Its just moving flat out up the field as fast as possible (like a missile) expecting the trukk and 3 manz to smash into a target of your choosing. No one really has the option to ignore a trukk full of meganobz with killsaws flying at them so its a relatively effective distraction that can do some good damage if and when it reaches something tasty.
So do you ram the trukk into a unit or do you stop in front of the unit, disembark the MANz, and then let the MANz do their stuff?
FlashyGit wrote: Its just moving flat out up the field as fast as possible (like a missile) expecting the trukk and 3 manz to smash into a target of your choosing. No one really has the option to ignore a trukk full of meganobz with killsaws flying at them so its a relatively effective distraction that can do some good damage if and when it reaches something tasty.
So do you ram the trukk into a unit or do you stop in front of the unit, disembark the MANz, and then let the MANz do their stuff?
the point is to deliver MANZ in to close combat as quickly as possible. So dont drive a trukk into a unit if there are still passengers on the trukk.
You want to let the manz do what they do. You can pretty much expect the trukk to either get the manz to their target quick as possible or blow up gloriously, but the 2+ armor on the manz pretty much shrugs that off. If the trukk doesn't make it, you just keep marching them forward on foot. With the flat out move in the trukk, it just helps you close that gap a lot quicker, that's all
But adding on to this incase it does live, I use mine to block line of sight against units that can hurt the nobz. Sometimes Ram a vehicle if it has a hull point left. S7 aint bad
Has anyone tried to make use of the new ghaz supplement. I did it for our monthly apoc game on Sunday and it was super fun. I might have messed up on which table to roll ghaz warlord traits on. He end up with kunnin' but brutal and brutal but kunnin'. Which is amazing. Ghaz rerolls failed to hit or to wound and he re-rolls failed armor or inv. He had his 2++ the whole time. I put his council in a Kustom battle fortress and just drove across the table into the defense line of salamander marines. Ghaz killed a command squad and an IK by himself.
Glitcha wrote: Has anyone tried to make use of the new ghaz supplement. I did it for our monthly apoc game on Sunday and it was super fun. I might have messed up on which table to roll ghaz warlord traits on. He end up with kunnin' but brutal and brutal but kunnin'. Which is amazing. Ghaz rerolls failed to hit or to wound and he re-rolls failed armor or inv. He had his 2++ the whole time. I put his council in a Kustom battle fortress and just drove across the table into the defense line of salamander marines. Ghaz killed a command squad and an IK by himself.
Sounds like Ghazghkull Thraka is awesome now. Maybe we should upgrade him from red to blue?
The rules say plus 2 to the AV for ramming. So you only add one to the strength. I don't know about the return hit. It might be done against the normal AV +2.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Yes with the new supplement he could definitely get bumped up to blue with the requirement of using this detachment.
cranect wrote: The rules say plus 2 to the AV for ramming. So you only add one to the strength. I don't know about the return hit. It might be done against the normal AV +2.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Yes with the new supplement he could definitely get bumped up to blue with the requirement of using this detachment.
Good! could someone type up a description so we can back up the blue?
Glitcha wrote: Has anyone tried to make use of the new ghaz supplement. I did it for our monthly apoc game on Sunday and it was super fun. I might have messed up on which table to roll ghaz warlord traits on. He end up with kunnin' but brutal and brutal but kunnin'. Which is amazing. Ghaz rerolls failed to hit or to wound and he re-rolls failed armor or inv. He had his 2++ the whole time. I put his council in a Kustom battle fortress and just drove across the table into the defense line of salamander marines. Ghaz killed a command squad and an IK by himself.
Kunnin' but brutal and brutal but kunnin'? Making an educated guess here, but did you take Da Finkin' Kap? That relic lets you roll for a second warlord trait on the Strategic table from the BRB. Unless I've missed something special from Waaagh! Ghazzy v2.0?
Ghazghkull Thraka is now truly a LoW when taken in his detachment. He can call the WAAAGH every turn and brings his personal bodyguard with him which can be considered good or bad. With the WAAAGH every turn he has a 2++ and gives your army fearless. Taken outside the detachment he is sub par.
No clue if that's any good but I gave it a shot.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The council of WAAAGH hives him the fearless waaagh warlord trait as well as two others that you roll for on the ghazzy table.
But on that note, does the returning hit roll for armour penetration against AV10 or AV12?
Oopsie
Speaking of S7, I got some Killa Kans earlier because they are nice models to look at and at this point in the game, I've gone beyond caring how best to optmise lists I'm only playing for fun.
How would you outfit the Kans? The GW staff who play Orks swear by Rokkits, but the Grotzooka looks pretty promising?
By beyond caring how best to optimise, I mean I don't want to roll over with what I do have, just I don't care what is competitive these days.
Trukks die yes however in the great waaagh detachment you only need one turn for them to get into a first turn charge range.
And spamming truk boyz makes it hard for your opponent to hit everything in one turn of long range shooting. I find this list works best like this.
Take trukks with rokkits and spam them as such.
Orks 1850 Pts
WAAGH!-Band
Warboss, Mega armour and Lukky stick 1
Mek – 1
Nobs, big choppa 3
Trukk 1
Council of WAAGH!
Ghaz – 1
Mad Dok – 1
Big Mek Big Choppa, Eavy Armor 1
Warboss Big Choppa, Eavy Armor 1
Warboss Big Choppa, Eavy Armor 1
Nobs w Waaagh banner– 3
Totals 103
That’s a lot of rokkits (19) and powerklaws (9) and big choppas (6) and two decent beatstick units. It's pure MSU and only misses the ob secured. Ghaz will likely outflank since he gets two rerollable warlord traits in his formation. Alternatively you can drop ghaz formation and just make the warlord in the waagh band your warboss and hope you get fearless with your reroll trait.
You're missing the transport for the Council. Are you using a trukk?
Also, what about reinforced rams on the trukks?
I'm getting 1858 on what you listed with no rams and no trukk for the council.
Ghaz has 2 additional warlord traits with rerolls he needs to take from the ghaz supplement. Some of those are also useles for him such as fnp. However one of them is outflank which is perfect for his council and saves you another trukk cost. And according to the new waaagh rules he can call waagh fro. Reserves and it also protects him getting seized and sniped before he calls waagh. I didn't use rams because I didn't have the points and trukks will not last long they just need to get thier one movement across the board and then they can be immobilized for all I care.
There is a strong reliance on first turn without that you would probably lose 3 trukks. I don't think that's a huge issue because the other 6 trucks and outflanking ghaz council will still do the damage I need. My only issue is I don't have 9 trukks. I have 6 so right now I proxy with chimeras.
But on that note, does the returning hit roll for armour penetration against AV10 or AV12?
Oopsie
Speaking of S7, I got some Killa Kans earlier because they are nice models to look at and at this point in the game, I've gone beyond caring how best to optmise lists I'm only playing for fun.
How would you outfit the Kans? The GW staff who play Orks swear by Rokkits, but the Grotzooka looks pretty promising?
By beyond caring how best to optimise, I mean I don't want to roll over with what I do have, just I don't care what is competitive these days.
I normally only take kans in the dread mob. When I do I take 2 units of 3 with rokkits and one unit with grotzookas. If I'm not running the dread mob rokkits all the way since you get some good use out of them with the higher BS.
cranect wrote: Ghazghkull Thraka is now truly a LoW when taken in his detachment. He can call the WAAAGH every turn and brings his personal bodyguard with him which can be considered good or bad. With the WAAAGH every turn he has a 2++ and gives your army fearless. Taken outside the detachment he is sub par.
No clue if that's any good but I gave it a shot.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The council of WAAAGH hives him the fearless waaagh warlord trait as well as two others that you roll for on the ghazzy table.
yeah which i screwed up and rolled on the ork codex table for. it was pretty funny.
Here is a question for you: since ghaz can get two warlord traits in his formation, does this mean he is allowed to reroll 1 or both of them if you want to? I believe part of the new ork decurion is the warlord can re-roll their warlord trait.
You forgot the Junka 11 (12)/11 (12) /10 for 60 (80) pts. Which has some nice weapon options.
Of all the onees listed I prefer the Big trakks and invariably use two of them to transport my more precious units. The heavy plates work wonders to negate shaken/stunned and get your lads where they are needed. It is also a nice firing-platform for Flash Gitz, much preferable to the expensive Battlewagon.
warkopta is one of the few ork vehicles i know nothing about lol. I actually thought it was considered a jetbike (super deffkopta) that could transport a small unit for the longest time.
I've had decent experience with warkopta (not a lot mind you), but it's in theory a good transport. Can be taken in squadrons of 3 so you don't have to use that many fast attack slots.
It's main benefits is its faster then a trukk, it can jink, its got good dakka an it Flys over terrain.
While it could do for being a little cheaper, it is still everything a trukk should be.
Warkoptas are nice, altough not very point effective. I've had some fun with the flamer which can be fitted on it since people do not expect it. Here's a pic of my warkopta btw:
You forgot the Junka 11 (12)/11 (12) /10 for 60 (80) pts. Which has some nice weapon options.
Of all the onees listed I prefer the Big trakks and invariably use two of them to transport my more precious units. The heavy plates work wonders to negate shaken/stunned and get your lads where they are needed. It is also a nice firing-platform for Flash Gitz, much preferable to the expensive Battlewagon.
Here's me talking about Flash Gitz again. I know the concensus is they are bad because they are not reliable. However I've had some considerable succes with a 5 men squad over the past games. I use Badrukk's FGs from the Sanctus Reach supplement, which gives you +1 LD and gives the serge a S5 AP1, gets hot, Snazzgun. Which is nice as it makes the unit more reliable. Do not forget to pack some ammo runts though.
- In one game they whiped a squad of 'legions of the damned' in one turn. Next turn they downed a landspeeder storm and wiped out the scouts in it all in the same turn forcing a jink on a stormraven the next turn.
- In another game they killed a Broadside, took two wounds from a ripptide in turn two and in killed farsight in the next turn.
- The last game saw them wiping a 9 men 'ard nob-squad in one turn of shooting forcing the enemy not to come within range for the entire remainder of the game.
- They however were more then ineffective against a unit of 8 cryptecs with (never heard of those).
Yes, I'm loving them for sure.
________________________________________
I would just like to know how exactly you forced an AV 12 Stormraven to jink with their S5 guns? I wish this could happen but I think you're thinking of some other flyer? storm eagle? i don't know the name of the other flyers sorry. PS i suck at editing these posts as well
Warkoptas are nice, altough not very point effective. I've had some fun with the flamer which can be fitted on it since people do not expect it. Here's a pic of my warkopta btw:
Wow.... thank you my friend, as you showed me that there isn't as big of a size difference between a bloody trukk and a big trakk after all! I had a guy refuse to play me because of that
Hey guys I dont own the new ork book so I was wondering if you guys could help me out with something.
I have heard you can use both WAGGHH Ghazy and codex Orks relics in the same formation in the decurion. Is this true? Can you bring ghazy relics on a character who already has a codex orks relic?
So like in council of ghazy can you have a MA warboss with the DLS?
You forgot the Junka 11 (12)/11 (12) /10 for 60 (80) pts. Which has some nice weapon options.
Again read the original post and stop quoting him as a source : P I considered the junka a variant of the looted wagon with more guns just like the lifta wagon is a variant of the battle wagon with more guns. But you are right it should be in there if just for the mention of the Junka "KFF" generator and their ability to be a sort of fast vehicle.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vineheart01 wrote: warkopta is one of the few ork vehicles i know nothing about lol. I actually thought it was considered a jetbike (super deffkopta) that could transport a small unit for the longest time.
The reaon for this is that is it 65 points base and cost more pounds then points. That is just way to much. They do have some fun rules, that would make them really interesting if they where 30~40 points.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I found it really strange that FW rebased them on a flyer base but did not give it flyer rules. This might be the only model that is on a flying stand but isn't a flyer. I wonder what will happen to them if orks do get an update.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vineheart01 wrote: Big Trakks are the size of a battlewagon arent they? or at least damn close?
Tibs Ironblood wrote: Hey guys I dont own the new ork book so I was wondering if you guys could help me out with something.
I have heard you can use both WAGGHH Ghazy and codex Orks relics in the same formation in the decurion. Is this true? Can you bring ghazy relics on a character who already has a codex orks relic?
So like in council of ghazy can you have a MA warboss with the DLS?
Afaik yes but the lucky stikk +1 ws won't stick with waaagh banner.
So, the green tide might disapear (from the competitive scene), but we might have a replacement. Da vulcha squad.
Pros.
1.You can max out the 3 units of stromboyz for 90 total, 3 nobz for pk 2.bike painboy and bike boss with the big boss pole can give the whole thing fnp and feerless (and they'll keep pace with the horde).
3.besides the add on hqs on bikes the formation is nothin but jumppacks, that is way more manuverable and faster then a green tide ever will be.
4.turbo boosting jinking dls warboss with fnp at the head of this faster green tide is pretty durable.
Cons
1. The whole formation has to deepstrike, but that's not as bad when they only deepstrike d6....and unless the enemy runs horde (unlikey) then if you pick a decent zone you won't misshap.
2. Other hqs that have bikes can't start the game in the formation. This can be resolved by hiding these hqs well enough until the vulcha come in, then they speed up and join the unit.
3.no multiple waaaghs like greentide....but with such fast units like stromboyz then you won't care so much about getting to run b4 a charge since they are crazy fast.
4. Buying that many stromboyz...this is orks though, take your wealth of boyz from your green tide and just kustom make/kit bash some roket packs on these gitz.
I would like some of your opinions on how this could be. What benefits or problems I missed? Could this have the potential to replace the green tide if it disapears? Could it be better then the greentide?
Personally I'd just replace it with the waaagh band and run large squads then add some stormboyz with the council. I haven't built that list yet but with the council and the waaagh band you can get 90 boys and a fully upgraded council.
I ran da vulca a few times and it really isn't that good.
Cons
- impossible to land safely
- If they have intercept and pie plates you are going to have a hard time not to cry.
- No pain boy or other protective trick when they land
- Not fearless vulnerable to ld tricks.
- Really expensive
- You will be stuck with ~ 100 storm boyz if you don't like it : P
I ran it but with only 30 once. They landed and then I ran them and between the running and the landing I lost about 5 to dangerous terrain out of 30. After that the slaaneshi Marines made them cry a bit and then they ate a few rhinos. It was a very sub par list and the stormboyz were the best part lol. The run after deepstrike is pretty nuts though. They were taking up a good 2 feet of board which was pretty great.
Vineheart01 wrote: Big Trakks are the size of a battlewagon arent they? or at least damn close?
Those treaded vehicles arent big trakks. Those are half trakks if they arent just variant trukks.
Here are the three side-by-side. I prefer the Big trakks myself.
Nice models Oldzoggy. Altough I have to correct you; the Junka is something different from the Looted wagon due to the options. You can fit the Junka with a supa-skorcha, grot-bombs, boomgun or SAG. Next to that is has three big-shootas which can be upgraded. The AV can also be upgraded if you want to make it a bit more durable. I have build a couple of versions and they are rather nice on the battlefield. The Grot-launcha is useful, the version with 4 flamers (1 S6/AP3+ 3 S5/ap4) is downright scary to most opponents. Of course you have to take a risk to make it fast with the supacharga, but hey, we're ork-players, we like risks.
About the Storm Boys, why not just min max the Zagstruk formation? 16 models. Maybe just add a few for a meat shield to keep the Nobs safer? I'm looking forward to giving it a try but my expectations aren't very high.
The bit about the flight stand for the Warkopta got me thinking. Maybe it'll be back as a flyer with hover mode. Wouldn't that be a thing.
I'm working a deal to sell off a tau army right now and I'm thinking that going flyer heavy might actually be really good.
Air armada + Blitz bombers + ? burna Bombers or more Dakka Jets? Then just use maybe the Kill Mob, which I'll leave off the board as long as I can.
Well I don't think I'll ever use the waagh-band detachment at the competitive level for 40k. Cost to much to get the good stuff. I will make use of some of the smaller formations in the book tho.
My first list with waagh-band was 2500pts. Felt pretty solid after I got it up to that point mark.
List
Goff mob formation (warboss on bike with nob bikers)
Pain boy on bike
3 battle wagons
1 Morkanaut
For 1850 stuff, yeah it's a bummer. Reecius only just managed to fit it in and that was by skimping out on 'eavy armour for his Trukk Boyz (big no no in my book).
I would have preferred a Kult of Speed, Dread Mob (lite) and Green Tide Cores. I could get behind that. But we have what we have - and I intend to stick to CAD
Warkoptas are nice, altough not very point effective. I've had some fun with the flamer which can be fitted on it since people do not expect it. Here's a pic of my warkopta btw:
Frozocrone wrote: For 1850 stuff, yeah it's a bummer. Reecius only just managed to fit it in and that was by skimping out on 'eavy armour for his Trukk Boyz (big no no in my book).
If the boyz are fearless you definitely don't want to pay for EA. In normal games, I have never really found it to be worth it. Better to take more boyz than try to upgrade them.
Is there a chance that Fearless boyz don't even need a Nob? Maybe we could take a traditionally good squad:
10 Boyz + Nob (PK, BP) in a Trukk (Ram)
and change it to:
10 Boyz (9 Shootas, 1 Big Shoota) in a Trukk (Ram)
That saves 26 points per squad, and changes the purpose of the boyz somewhat, but might work in an Orcurion with a Ghazstar.
Ya I have a hard time fitting a proper list into 1850
I kinda hope we have a core codex revamp. A good drop in points across thd board like most full codex updates will make the waaagh band detachment a lot easier to work with
