Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!

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**KaptinBadrukk**

Edit to Snikrot suggested by Frozocrone

Green=Da Best
Blue=Very Good
Yellow=Average
Red=Below Average (don't take in a competitive list)

Mad Dok Grotsnik: One Scalpel Short Of A Medpack means he and any unit he joins has Fearless and Rampage. The only reason why he's not green is because he can't leave the unit until he's the last man standing.

Kaptin Badrukk: His gun is likely to kill him, and he's got the cost of 5 Flash Gitz.

Boss Zagstruk: While I've never actually played him, the only reason why he's not red is because of Da Vulcha's Klaws. Hammer of Wrath attacks with those klaws are made at Str 8 AP 2.

Boss Snikrot: An excellent way to put Kommando's exactly where you need them to be. Underwhelming on his own, when joined to a large squad of Kommandos, he becomes a force multiplier, bringing in his unit in the opponent backfield, and acting as an Anvil for your enemies to be crushed upon.

**koooaei**

Bardiel_03 wrote:
koooaei wrote:
What's a0 painmob?

So, we need to allready be in combat for 2 phases if you were the one to charge? I guess it's still amazing vs other starters. Especially for dread.

**Bardiel_03**

koooaei wrote:
Bardiel_03 wrote:
koooaei wrote:
What's a0 painmob?

So, we need to allready be in combat for 2 phases if you were the one to charge? I guess it's still amazing vs other starters. Especially for dread.

yep, it's not bad, it's also a way to get extra painboys

**Vineheart01**

Painmob rule is actually pretty good in a vacuum. Assuming theres still powerklaws in the unit, thats some hefty damage and all the shenanigans of a lost combat for the enemy. Problem is, nothing is going to survive orks for 2 assault turns unless the orks cant hurt them to begin with.

think i'd rather a super-FNP for the painmob, something we can actually use instead of something we probably wont ever get to use. I rarely, RARELY stay in combat longer than 1 turn unless im wounding on 5s/6s or its a 2+ save and i have no PKs.

**FlashyGit**

its not terrible. I mean, painboys and ork boy squads are pretty commonly used anyway and to get them without having to take up CAD slot is nice. I just wish Nobs' were a little cheaper in points so they could be used a little more effectively

**Vineheart01**

Yeah regular nobz are too expensive. I dont get why a butt-naked nob with a pk costs 5pts more than a MAN. Current edition took away their biker powers and did nothing to help their footwork.
yes i know they can still be bikernobz but theyre still as insanely expensive as they were in the 4th book but now they dont have an invul...yet their biker price went up to make them cost the same as though they had the invul.

**Frozocrone**

45 pts for a naked Nob Biker and 40 points for a naked TWC, let that sink in a bit..

**Cleatus**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Painmob rule is actually pretty good in a vacuum. Assuming theres still powerklaws in the unit, thats some hefty damage and all the shenanigans of a lost combat for the enemy. Problem is, nothing is going to survive orks for 2 assault turns unless the orks cant hurt them to begin with.

think i'd rather a super-FNP for the painmob, something we can actually use instead of something we probably wont ever get to use. I rarely, RARELY stay in combat longer than 1 turn unless im wounding on 5s/6s or its a 2+ save and i have no PKs.

Necron Warriors are so durable, but put out so few attacks in CC. Even with a PK, I'm lucky to kill 2-3, but they hardly kill any of my Boyz, and their Ld 10 keeps them sticking around so combat continues turn after turn. With this buff my Boyz have a little more fun.

Dream scenario:
Fearless Ghazzy Orkurion Boyz + turn 1 Waaagh! + running MANZ + free HoW attacks + Painmobs with even more attacks on successive turns.
(nevermind the points costs, just a fun idea

)

**Vineheart01**

I forget, does the TWC come with their claws by default? i know they buy the stormshield but of course the price isnt insane for what its going on/what it does.

Nobz should cost 10pts and the bike shouldnt cost 27 considering they took away its walking 4+ cover w/o jink. And i feel PKs in general should be 15pts since its the only damn melee weapon we got that does anything. Bigchoppas arent "bad" but only footnobz can get them casually, and of course the whole arguement here is footnobz suck.

And believe me i know about the necron cheese. Before i boxed my orks up and said feth it i had my warbiker squad with a warboss with stikk AND a MANz missile slam into a warrior squad. They stalled me for 4 fethin turns....that shouldnt happen against that many attacks let alone that many PKs. They should only be allowed to get their reanimation against ID if a res orb is around or some other wargear they cant squeeze into every unit.

**Bardiel_03**

Nobz are overcosted, nob bikers even more.
The bike upgrade should cost less, boy+bikes are 18 so 12 points per bike, bike for hq cost 25, why a bike for a nob cost 27 ???
And naked nobz should cost 12 points (2 boyz) instead of 18 (3 boyz)

**Frozocrone**

Vineheart01 wrote:
I forget, does the TWC come with their claws by default? i know they buy the stormshield but of course the price isnt insane for what its going on/what it does.

Nobz should cost 10pts and the bike shouldnt cost 27 considering they took away its walking 4+ cover w/o jink. And i feel PKs in general should be 15pts since its the only damn melee weapon we got that does anything. Bigchoppas arent "bad" but only footnobz can get them casually, and of course the whole arguement here is footnobz suck.

And believe me i know about the necron cheese. Before i boxed my orks up and said feth it i had my warbiker squad with a warboss with stikk AND a MANz missile slam into a warrior squad. They stalled me for 4 fethin turns....that shouldnt happen against that many attacks let alone that many PKs. They should only be allowed to get their reanimation against ID if a res orb is around or some other wargear they cant squeeze into every unit.

No, they come with Bolt Pistol and CCW, but they do have Rending as standard

**Vineheart01**

So theyre also deadlier in melee, better armor, Calvary rules, and have access to borderline WAAC cheese wargear for cheaper than bikernobz with a pk. Awesome balancing GW.

Honestly though, even though i wish Nobz got a price cut i'd rather they and Burnaz get divvied up into other units instead of form their own. Even at their current price, if i could slap 1-2 more nobz with pks into my boy blobs i would so do that (and i feel burnas on their own are terrible, but the gun is awesome)

**koooaei**

It'd be awesome. But the codex was a deliberate nerf to previously strong units. Biker nobz were very good in 5 and 6. Deff rollas and kan walls were extremely good in 5.
On the other hand, lootas were great both in 5 and 6 and they got 1 pt down.

**geargutz**

For the painmob, I would get a battlewagon through the nobz, but put the boyz x19 with nob and pk with the painboy in the battlewagon. Keep the Nobs as 3 in a trukk with maybe eavy armour and big choppas. Then hope all 3 get into combat.
This might work well coupled with the blitz brigade.
2 painmobs, blitz brigade, then a CAD for tankbustas and defkoptas.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

koooaei wrote:
It'd be awesome. But the codex was a deliberate nerf to previously strong units. Biker nobz were very good in 5 and 6. Deff rollas and kan walls were extremely good in 5.
On the other hand, lootas were great both in 5 and 6 and they got 1 pt down.

And then put in the heavy slot....I consider that a nerf.

**Vineheart01**

yeah lootas in the heavy slot killed their use for me. i havnt touched them since. Elites are almost untouched unless youre spamming tankbustas or manz missiles but the heavy slot is usually packed regardless of your strat (wagons, mek gunz, or *shudders* walkers)

**JimOnMars**

Cleatus wrote:
Necron Warriors are so durable, but put out so few attacks in CC. Even with a PK, I'm lucky to kill 2-3, but they hardly kill any of my Boyz, and their Ld 10 keeps them sticking around so combat continues turn after turn. With this buff my Boyz have a little more fun.

It's a pretty expensive tax (deff dread) just so you can kill 2-3 necron warriors, once. The dread will probably get gaussed before it's usefull, and those 80+ points could have been spent on 5 lootas, which kill about 1 warrior per turn.

**Icculus**

So has the debate been settled on whether or not ICs get benefits of a formation? If I have a warboss in the unit of nobs from the painmob, does the warboss get to make the extra attack?

**geargutz**

Icculus wrote:
So has the debate been settled on whether or not ICs get benefits of a formation? If I have a warboss in the unit of nobs from the painmob, does the warboss get to make the extra attack?

The key word is "unit from the formation". While you can have a warboss in a unit from the pain mob he is still not from the formation. I would say no.

**Vitali Advenil**

It sounds great on paper, but like others have pointed out, not much is going to survive two rounds of ork assault if you're kited out for that. Still not terrible, and it would give me an excuse to finally take a deff dread (it's my favorite ork model but the rules are just awful) but the nob squad kills it. If it was perhaps a MANz squad then I would jump on this formation in a heartbeat because I basically field all this minus the deff dread already.

**koooaei**

Icculus wrote:
So has the debate been settled on whether or not ICs get benefits of a formation? If I have a warboss in the unit of nobs from the painmob, does the warboss get to make the extra attack?

Not really. Noone knows.

Also, deff dread is awesome in small games. It will just become useless later on.

I personally use neither walkers, nor wagons. But often run double cad, so, there's always place for lootas.

**Orock**

We DO know though. The only models that benefit from formation bonuses are those in it.

**koooaei**

Orock wrote:
We DO know though. The only models that benefit from formation bonuses are those in it.

Does it mean that allied orks don't get 1-st turn WAAAGH?

**Brokk**

koooaei wrote:
Orock wrote:
We DO know though. The only models that benefit from formation bonuses are those in it.

Does it mean that allied orks don't get 1-st turn WAAAGH?

No, that rule does not specifically target the formation. It's armywide.

**cranect**

The waaagh is army wide so as long as you have the formation that lets you call it then you can waaagh first turn. The painboy formation from the get started box only lets the units in the formation attack during the movement phase.

**hordrak**

As allways GW will need to faq stuff. Waiting for it.

**Brokk**

It was the same with the Ork horde formation in codex orks. The waaagh every turn is not restricted in any way to the formation. The special rule waagh says it simple and plain, all models with the ere we go special rule gets to both run and assault during a waaagh.

I have never played against another ork player, but it should affect both armies?.Or does it say friendly units???

**warhead01**

All friendly units.

**PipeAlley**

geargutz wrote:
Just a little list I put together. Seems like it could be quite competitive.
“All da koptas”
CADZ X2
HQ
zhadsnark (150)
150
Painboy (50) bike (25) bp (5) grot orderlies x2 (10)
80
TROOP
gretchin (35)
35
warBike x3 (54)
54
warBike x3 (54)
54
warbike x15 (270) nob (10) pk (25)
305
ELITE
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x8 (104) nob (10) bp (5)
119
Tankbustas x7 (91) nob (10) bp (5)
106
FAST
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
Warkopta (65)
65
FORT
Aegis defense line (50) coms relay (20)
70
TOTAL (1849)

So, if I most likely go 2nd then I deploy only the adl, grots, and the 3 man biker squads on the battle field in as much cover as possible and out of line of sight. When other forces come from reserves the bikes focus on objectives. The grots go to ground behind the defence line and keep close to the comms relay.
Turn 2 rolls around and all warkoptas filled with tankbustas will be rolled from reserves with reroll from the comms relay. They are dual roll of assault vehicles or shoot from their jinking transports.
Zhadsnark will either scout or outflank with the 15 man warbiker unit. The bike painboy will join them as well. This sub par defstar is mainly there to hid vulnerable targets.
This list focuses on one of our better units, the tankbustas. Their bomb both burst vehicles and rip apart heavy armoured infantry….and hopefully they can get you “glory hogs” if the grots and bikers can hold on in the 1st turn (and if your opponent has some vehicles). The semi bikestar is more or less a distraction, its there to keep the enemy focusing on the big scary bike boss, and not on the much deadlier flyin melta bombs.
The warkpta is a great transport. While maybe a little overpriced it is extremely fast and has some descent dakka.
Let me know what you guys think.

Your PainBoy on bike is under costed by 10 points. Also, you need another Grot Squad for min troop choice for your second CAD.

**tetrisphreak**

So you know how tyranids had their most recent codex, then about a year later got a drop spore added via datasheet/new model?

What if orks got a Rok model that worked just like that? Gave us a new way to deploy our mobs and dreads? Would something like that breathe life into deff dreads, or be useful for deep striking boy mobs? Obviously it's just a wishlist but i think it would be awesome.

**Frozocrone**

Maybe. But remember that Tyranids already had drop pods in 5th, it was only removed because of the Chapterhouse lawsuit.