5 games so far. All with Imperial Guard.
1 vs Tau, win.
2 vs Tyranids, 1 win, 1 loss.
2 vs Sisters of battle, 2 losses.
All the games were 1000 points and with my ancient 1995 army.
Win = Tau Wins
Lose = Tau Loss
+ = 4 Player - 2 vs 2 game
Eternal War - Tau vs Space Marines - Lose
Eternal War - Tau + Chaos Space Marines vs Space Marine + Grey Knight - Lose
Maelstrom - Tau vs Death Guard - Win (by Obj)
Eternal War - Tau vs Eldar - Lose
Eternal War - Tau + Eldar vs Space Marines + Space Marines - Lose
Eternal War - Tau vs Chaos Space Marines - Lose
Eternal War - Tau vs Tzeentch Daemons - Lose
Maelstrom - Tau vs Tzeentch Daemons - Win (by Obj)
Grey Knights vs Blood Angels: Grey Knights win big
Space Marines vs Orks: Space Marines Win
Once again both games were effectively over on turn 3, continuing my gaming group's pattern of no games bothering to go past turn 4. We've gotten in about 30 games so far and they've all been blowouts. There is not much of a disparity, each army has a fairly equal number of wins and losses (Except the Sisters of Battle who are 5-0) but we have yet to see a single close game.
Talamare wrote: I'll toss in my games over this week/last week
Win = Tau Wins
Lose = Tau Loss
+ = 4 Player - 2 vs 2 game
Eternal War - Tau vs Space Marines - Lose
Eternal War - Tau + Chaos Space Marines vs Space Marine + Grey Knight - Lose
Maelstrom - Tau vs Death Guard - Win (by Obj)
Eternal War - Tau vs Eldar - Lose
Eternal War - Tau + Eldar vs Space Marines + Space Marines - Lose
Eternal War - Tau vs Chaos Space Marines - Lose
Eternal War - Tau vs Tzeentch Daemons - Lose
Maelstrom - Tau vs Tzeentch Daemons - Win (by Obj)
This is my list of games with my Nurgle Daemons.
These do not include my games with 8 DPs and Belakor. I tabled my opponents in 4 games in a row then gave up on the list as unfun to play against.
Nurgle Daemons vs Dark Eldar : Nurgle Daemons Win
Nurgle Daemons vs Tau : Nurgle Daemons Win
Nurgle Daemons vs Adeptus Custodes : Adeptus Custodes Win
Nurgle Daemons vs Eldar : Nurgle Daemons Win
Nurgle Daemons vs Ad Mech : Ad Mech Wins
Nurgle Daemons vs Crons : Crons Win
Nurgle Daemons vs Nids : Nurgle Daemons Win
Nurgle Daemons vs Tau : Tie
Nurgle Daemons vs IG : Nurgle Daemons Win
Nurgle Daemons vs IG : Nurgle Daemons Win
Nurgle Daemons vs Crons : Nurgle Daemons Win
My wins have not been blowouts. They are usually only minor victories, which is why my army is hitting about the middle of the pack in the event's I've been attending.
IandI wrote: Grey Knights vs Blood Angels: Grey Knights win big
Space Marines vs Orks: Space Marines Win
Once again both games were effectively over on turn 3, continuing my gaming group's pattern of no games bothering to go past turn 4. We've gotten in about 30 games so far and they've all been blowouts. There is not much of a disparity, each army has a fairly equal number of wins and losses (Except the Sisters of Battle who are 5-0) but we have yet to see a single close game.
My two wins today were nearly tabling but we called early because of time, but the one I lost was very close, 6 turns with one hq and two or three troop models left for both armies.
My two wins today were nearly tabling but we called early because of time, but the one I lost was very close, 6 turns with one hq and two or three troop models left for both armies.
I'd really love to see a batrep for the close game that made it to turn 6.
SoB (plus a vindi assassin) vs GK + Inq + Assassins = major SoB win
But who was fighting for chaos?
the filthy Grey Knights. about time we exacted our revenge...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Want to know the strange thing? i was defending but managed to seize and had a full frontal assault which decimated him turn one.
These have been my results so far. These have been over the course of an escalation league at my local store. I have been playing Ynnari with pure craft world units except for members of the triumvirate (Mostly just Yvraine in most cases).
500 points:
Ynnari v. Space Marines (win by tabling)
Ynnari v. Primaris Space marines (win by tabling)
Ynnari v. Space Marines + Imperial Assassins (win by forfeit on round 2)
750
Ynnari v. Orks (closer game but ultimately killed everything but a squad of grots in the backfield leading to a concession on round 3).
Ynnari v. Necrons (went second, hid everything out of LOS. Killed Annihilation barge and inflicted heavy damage on warriors on round 1 leading to concession at end of turn 1)
Ynnari v. Grey Knights (relic mission, very close call due to deep strikes and smites, managed to win by escaping with the relic using warp spiders)
1000
Ynnari v. Primaris Marines (won by concession at end of turn 2)
Ynnari v. Space Marines (won by tabling turn 3
Ynnari v. Imperial Guard (won by concession turn 3)
1250
Ynnari v. Tyranids (won by tabling on round 3)
Ynnari v. Space Wolves (opponent conceded when I went first and managed to kill Typhon siege tank in round 1.)
1500
Ynnari v. Space Marines (Ultramarines) (won by concession turn 4)
Ynnari v. Space Wolves (thunder wolf and wolfed heavy army) (won by tabling turn 3)
2000
Ynnari v. Tyranids. (won by controlling all 6 objectives on turn 3)
Current record in 8th: 14 wins, 0 losses.
Key reasons for the success so far:
1. Dark Reapers + Yvraine. Using her psychic powers to make a large squad shoot twice each turn and also reroll ones has been massive. They've also been a great antidote to the list with the assassin that you need to roll 6s to hit, since their 3+ to hit roll trumps that. Their flat 2 damage shot has been particularly good for wiping out primaris marines, terminators, as well as getting through quantum shielding on Necron vehicles. Absolutely my MVPs.
2. Using warp hunters as part of deep strike bubble wrapping. Their flame template has absolutely devastated some terminator deep strike units that have tried to get at my reapers.
3. Sonic Lance Lynx. Have been using this in flight mode to really devastate MEQs. It has been amazing for clearing units off objectives, and I've been able to snipe out some key buffing characters using flight movement.
My games, all narrative:
Dark Angels vs Orks :Orks win
Dark Angels vs Orks: Dark Angels win
Dark Angels vs Orks: Dark Angels win
Dark Angels vs Orks: Dark Angels win
Dark Angels vs Orks: Orks win
Death Watch vs Orks: Orks win
My first game not against fellow imperials was a 2vs1 Fate of Konor game. 2500pts.
Astra Militarum vs Chaos (Black Legion): Astra Militarum victory via VP
On a side note, it's been five games and desptie having been fired (and often rerolled via cp) over 20 times the stupid vanquisher cannon has yet to actually damage anything. I suspect heresy somewhere in the targeting gear...
ChargerIIC wrote: My first game not against fellow imperials was a 2vs1 Fate of Konor game. 2500pts.
Astra Militarum vs Chaos (Black Legion): Astra Militarum victory via VP
On a side note, it's been five games and desptie having been fired (and often rerolled via cp) over 20 times the stupid vanquisher cannon has yet to actually damage anything. I suspect heresy somewhere in the targeting gear...
Don't use Vanqs. They're pretty much crap. Use Annihilators. For Tank Commanders, use Battle Tanks.
Tempestus vs world eaters (tempestus win)
Astra militarum vs khorne daemons (am win)
Thousand sons vs orks (tsons win)
Astra militarum vs space marines (am win)
Tempestus vs mechanicus (tempestus win)
Astra militarum vs mechanicus (am win)
Astra militarum vs harlequins (am win)
Thousand sons vs khorne daemons (draw)
There was also a kinky 5 man 3 way where I played thousand sons on a team with a chaos undivided against a team of orks and necrons and another team of mechanicus. Mechanicus won that game. Do with that what you will.
CSM vs Ultramarines: CSM Win
CSM vs IG: CSM Win
CSM vs IG: CSM Loss
CSM vs Eldar: CSM Loss
CSM vs IG: CSM Win
CSM vs Orks: CSM Win
CSM vs Eldar: CSM Win
Went to a small 8-person tournament today. 1k points, 2 detachments max.
My Mixed Chaos force had 2 Wins and 1 Loss. I had a Renegade Knight, a plague marine squad, a CSM squad, a Palanquin Lord, and some Tzeentch Flamers.
1st Game: Loss, vs Orks. Don't remember if I went 1st or 2nd. Opponent brought a some Grots, Big Mek and Warboss on bike, a few deffkoptas, and several Boy Mobz in Trukks. I couldn't chew through both the Trukks and the contents before they charged and wiped out all my infantry. The Knight did a lot of work, almost clearing the board, but the Big Mek, an empty Trukk and the Grots were still around to claim objectives at the end.
2nd Game: Win, vs Tau. I went 1st. Opponent had lots of Firewarriors and Pathfinders, backed up by just two Broadsides [that was it]. An unconventional approach. I was quite lucky in that I managed to have the Knight kill a Broadside with his Battlecannon first turn. I haven't played vs Tau very often, so was caught off guard by how many shots the Firewarriors could put out [even if they don't shoot well]. Some bad luck on my part was made up for by my throwing some spare shots at the drones, quickly gaining points in this Kill Points mission.
3rd Game: Win, vs Pure Death Guard [played by the Ringer, a store employee]. I got to go 1st. He had 2 of the special Death Guard Characters, two units of Plague Marines, and three Bloat Drones. I hadn't played against them before, and am coming to appreciate them [they don't look great on paper, but perform well on the table]. My infantry was able to clear out his, with some clever use of Supercharged Plasmas on my part. But as before, the Knight did most of the heavy lifting, even as it was whittled down by the Drones, he kept stomping and shooting them, until the 7th turn, when it was just the Knight on 2 wounds left, vs a single half-dead Drone. Thankfully, the Knight was closer to the Relic, so I narrowly pulled out the win.
Overall, I'm pleased with how my army went. I think I might've done better if I'd had a wider variety of units instead of the Knight, but he was quite effective nonetheless.
2000 point ITC tournament; each mission had an eternal war, and a maelstrom, and an additional set of objectives. Max score was 19 points.
Grey Knights vs Eldar/Harlequins - Won Maelstrom, won Eternal War. Tabled; 19-2 Grey Knights. It was close, until an ill-fated charge into my terminators, which also featured a Draigo pile-in. 2 command points later and that was all she wrote. Went second in this game. Lost about 380 points in this game.
Grey Knights vs Astra Millitarium - Tied Maelstrom, lost Eternal War; 13-5 Astra Millitarium. Lost the Eternal War by only 12 kill points, with game ending before i could potentially make up the difference. Really tough game, but it always is against AM for me. Went first in this game. Also saw a Celestine vs Celestine combat. She needs a nerf. Badly. Lost about 1100 points in this game.
Grey Knights vs Craftworld Eldar - Won Maelstrom, won Eternal War. Tabled; 19-3 Grey Knights. Honestly he could have probably won, except I rolled incredibly well to bring down his wraithknight in the span of 1 game turn (he charged, and I fought it on my turn. Did a total of 24 on the nose. 6 purge soul (ouch), 12 from Celestine (wow; thank you acts of cheese), remainder Draigo melee). Lost about 900 points in this game.
All in all, this was good enough for 2nd place. The guy who beat me got first.
Starting to realize that GK are a very solid counter to Eldar. The multi-wound strength 4 stuff really does the nasty.
IG v Nids - Nid victory
IG v BA - BA victory
IG v Necrons - Necron victory
Was on the path to tabling the enemy in the first game but ran out of time. BA was a close game but he managed to get a jump pack character on 3/4 of the points when time ran out and was ahead on the KP secondary. Necrons nearly tabled me by turn 7 game 3. Fliers are really nasty. People complain about Conscripts eating a disproportionate amount of firepower for their points, but the fliers alphad most of my heavy hitters and were putting a dent of in my 60 conscripts with tesla/hurricane bolters. 2-3 turns of shooting with my remaining army to bring the damn things down. Which let the death company and tesla immortals mulch my remaining conscripts which were pretty much my only way of scoring objectives. Not sure what to do except maybe take more scions instead of infantry squads and maybe add some Hydras/artillery instead of pask/leman russes.
None of the 3 guard armies out of 14 players even came close to placing top 3. The BA player who beat me with two stormravens took second. First was a guy playing DE who did very well at ATC.
Death guard VS SM. Draw. Konor mission. I was playing DG and was attacker. Opponent (who worked at the store mind you) cheated tho. Said all measuring had to start from the middle of the base (halfway through game) and also reneged on the agreed terrain access points and cover saves. Also tried to say his tact SM didnt need LOS to shoot. Tried to say he could move his predator through my Plague drone without charging. Stuff like that. 5 turn came around and we were tied on victory and i was ripping him up. He rolled a 5 then used a CP to reroll. Got a 2 and the game ended. To be honest i was glad it ended, he was so full of it. Even the owner apologized.
Knights and CSM vs BA and SW - Knights and CSM win.
CSM vs Eldar - Eldar win
Nurgle CSM vs KDK /w Berzerkers, Leviathan, renegade artillery - KDK win.
Marines vs Marines /w Celestine, Marines win.
Nids vs SW - Nids win
Necrons vs Single Warhound - Warhound wins.
TAU vs TAU - TAU wins Nids vs TAU - Nids win
KDK /w fancy toys vs Eldar - KDK win
Marines vs Warhound - Warhound wins.
TAU vs SW - TAU win.
Marines /w Celestine vs CSM - Marines win.
Necrons vs Nurgle CSM - Necrons win
Unit1126PLL wrote: My one Fate of Konor game (I was proxying Chaos to make the store's numbers even)
GK vs Chaos Space Marines, GK tabled me (though to be fair the Konor mission is difficult for the attacker imo)
Is it that bad?
I thought the attacker scenario looked pretty OK, considering that they get first turn, there's only 12" between deploy zones, and they get to advance and charge in the same turn. Suppressive fire is a terrible stratagem compared to On the Double-Quick.
The catch seems to be that the attacker has to keep 50% of her forces intact over the course of the game. In this manner, the attacker could do far better than the defender and breach the lines and all that, but as long as the defender gave them enough of a bloody nose, they'll still lose if they didn't table the opposition.
The extra 12" of space also favors the defender, even with the first-turn charge potential, but pushing back Vanguards and Deepstrikers. However, the base Dawn of War deployment massively favors the attacker.
Unit1126PLL wrote: My one Fate of Konor game (I was proxying Chaos to make the store's numbers even)
GK vs Chaos Space Marines, GK tabled me (though to be fair the Konor mission is difficult for the attacker imo)
Is it that bad?
I thought the attacker scenario looked pretty OK, considering that they get first turn, there's only 12" between deploy zones, and they get to advance and charge in the same turn.
The catch seems to be that the attacker has to keep 50% of her forces intact over the course of the game. In this manner, the attacker could do far better than the defender and breach the lines and all that, but as long as the defender gave them enough of a bloody nose, they'll still lose if they didn't table the opposition.
The extra 12" of space also favors the defender, even with the first-turn charge potential, but pushing back Vanguards and Deepstrikers. However, the base Dawn of War deployment massively favors the attacker.
Well, part of the issue was that (at 1k points) I ran a pretty fluffy Chaos Space Marine list, with one dreadnought, a warpsmith, a lord, a sorcerer, and some goons and a heavy bolter havoc squad.
He brought 1 Paladins unit (with 4 or 5 guys), one Purgation squad, one Purifier Squad, one Apothecary, one Paladin Ancient, and one Company Champion. So that was fun.
Couple games at the shop this weekend. Gave my Tau a break for my Nids
Tyranids vs. Necrons - Tyranid win
Death Guard vs. Tyranids - Death Guard win
Eldar vs. Tau - Eldar win
Nids vs Necrons - I never realized how powerful a swarm of cheap Hormagaunts were when surrounding Necrons. Their numbers kept his Immortals from triggering Reanimation Protocol, which cemented my victory. Sheer numbers overwhelmed him. Left my gaunts to tie up his vehicles in melle while my Genestealers assaulted his more dangerous guys and let rending claws do their job.
Death Guard vs. Tyranids - That Forgeworld Death Guard Predator with a million flamers was MVP. I didn't have a single unit that could survive the overwatch against it (not even a Carnifex at full health). It killed one unit a turn (more when i assaulted it). Guess I need to bring more guns... It was close for awhile as I dominated the half of the battlefield that Flamer of Death wasn't at. He had a T8 14W Plague Hulk? that tanked like a beast till my Zoanthropes got close enough to spam smite on it.
Eldar vs. Tau - I didn't play this game, but just watched. The Tau player was new (3rd game). He brought 2 commanders to a 700 point list (i told him that was a bad idea). Then he put his commanders in front of his infantry, and got shot up by bright lances and then assaulted
Unit1126PLL wrote: My one Fate of Konor game (I was proxying Chaos to make the store's numbers even)
GK vs Chaos Space Marines, GK tabled me (though to be fair the Konor mission is difficult for the attacker imo)
Is it that bad?
I thought the attacker scenario looked pretty OK, considering that they get first turn, there's only 12" between deploy zones, and they get to advance and charge in the same turn. Suppressive fire is a terrible stratagem compared to On the Double-Quick.
The catch seems to be that the attacker has to keep 50% of her forces intact over the course of the game. In this manner, the attacker could do far better than the defender and breach the lines and all that, but as long as the defender gave them enough of a bloody nose, they'll still lose if they didn't table the opposition.
The extra 12" of space also favors the defender, even with the first-turn charge potential, but pushing back Vanguards and Deepstrikers. However, the base Dawn of War deployment massively favors the attacker.
I did it at 1500 with a fun list with some cultist and daemonettes instead of a spam of msucsm which might of worked better.
Biggest problem is if your opponent has guns, which Imperium does, they can set up in the back of their deployment zone and shoot you off the board or shoot enough to make sure you can't win by the line breaker points. Kill points verse line breaker gives the defenders a really good advantage. Or you get a boring game where the attacker hides for 3 turns and then sprints for it. Way less fun to play but is playing to the objective.
The game was over in the first turn. Her dreadnought army just annihilated everything I had on the table, by the time my turn came around I was operating with half an army.
Didn't include any results from my home table, we don't take it too seriously and like to play with the scenarios a lot. I have been having great luck on the organised ables though. Toughest game I had was 1K Sons with a mountain of Smite to deal with.
From our 8ed escalation league.
Sisters vs 1K Sons - Sisters win
Sisters vs Dark Eldar - Sisters win
Sisters vs Necrons - Sisters win
Fate of Konor games.
Sisters vs Chaos Marines - Sisters win
Sisters vs Death Guard - Sisters win
Sisters vs Dark Eldar - Sisters win
Played Astra Militarum vs Space Marines (Ultra Marines). Space Marines won by a VP.
Great game as I seem to be closing in on that moment where the list you are building start to synergize. I would have been wiped out, but almost my entire list opened up on a Land Raider for sheer diceaggedon.
I watched a buddies 12 player tournament, 3 games each. I was unable to play for a few personal reasons but I was able to watch the hilarity ensue (this tournament was disappointing but the levity factor was off the chart)
*Note: I am racist, I only cared to watch the Ork games
6 SM players of various flavors (DA, BA, SW were represented), 2 Ork players (Speed Freak and Goff Mob) 1 Tau player, 1 Necron player and 2 Eldar Players.
ROUND 1:
Smurfs Vs Orkz - Smurfs Win (speed freak list got destroyed turn 1, Girlyman was sitting next to a couple units of devestators and the result was predictable. Turn 1 the Smurfs killed 3 trukkz, turns out trukkz aren't more durable then before . turn 2 his Devs turned their attention to the bikers, Plasma Cannons Vs Warbikers = Dead Warbikers. The Smurf player got 8 shots with Plasma, fired them all off, 2 models of his died from rolling 1s but then he rolled with the company ancient? or something, and they got to fire a second volley of 4 more shots and killed another 3 bikers.
Eldar Vs Orkz - Eldar Won (Boyz apparently don't do well against Wraithknights still)
ROUND 2:
Orkz Vs Orkz - Orkz win (Infantry list annihilated speed freak list, the coup de grace was Ghaz thumping the Speed Freak Warboss on a bike (Not Zhadsnark for some reason), so it was accurate in that regard).
Round 3:
Space Marines(Not sure of faction) Vs Orkz - Space Marines win. (This one was relatively close, the infantry list did well right up until the end when his opponents land raider broke free for a full turn at the end, scored an objective and liquefied the boyz holding an objective which swung the game from an ork win to a SM win)
Tau Vs Orkz - Tau Win (Ork Speed Freak list just didn't stand a chance. Turn 1 the Tau player destroyed 2 units of Warbikers and blew up a trukk, turn 2 he finished off the other 2 trukkz and dealt with some deep striking Koptas that had threatened his gunline. Basically this game was over turn 2 but they played 2 more turns which just confirmed my opinion that Warbikers are trash and Trukkz aren't worth the cost.)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ohh, and apparently screaming WAAAGH is no longer allowed in that store
FWIW, the Wraithknight is still a really strong unit. They're tougher than imperial knights and have overall better synergy within the overall Eldar list, as they can receive guide, fortune, etc. You definitely have to build a way to address the WK into your list. Orks will have the most trouble with this. Power Klaws I suppose would be the way to go, but those stomps are gnarly.
I played against a list with a WK in a tournament. Being able to deny guide & fortune was a big deal and turned the game.
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: What does the range in the win percentage column mean, and what is the 95% CL? Also, how is the score determined?
95% CI (confidence interval) means that he has taken a range of 95% either side of the W/L calculated. So a greater range of the confidence interval (persentage range) the less accurate the results are (it's the equivilent of error bars). The score is determined by how many armies the chosen army is better than given it's W/L confidence interval.
In layman's terms, it's 95% likely that the real data point falls between those values.
Consider this example of a normal distribution.
100 coins were flipped.
You would expect that 50 of the coins would come up heads.
But, in reality, how confident are you that 50 will happen, or, at least close to 50?
The mean is 50. The standard deviation is 2.5. 2 standard deviations from the mean in a normal distribution is a 95% confidence interval.
What that means, is, if i flipped a coin 100 times, I would be 95% certain that i would get between 45 and 55 heads results.
The more trials, the smaller the standard deviation relative to the number of trials, meaning, you become more accurate over time in your prediction.
So factions with low games played will vary more in their confidence, versus factions that have a lot of games played. In other words, we're more certain of Space Marines win percentage, than Orks, because more Space Marine games were played.
BA dreads vs tyranids in Konor campaign. BA victory
BA dreads vs death guard. DG win
I've played a lot of 40k, but that DG game had the highest number of ridiculous rolls I think I've ever seen. He had a 4w character suck 18 unsaved wounds and not die by passing 15/18 resilient rolls, he had poxes tanking dreadnought hits by rolling triple 5+'s several times, he only rolled 10's and 11's for psychic tests, he made every charge, even 10+ inch ones...The list goes on.
Scenario was The Relic. Celestine grabbed in on first turn and ran off with it. I blew up his Land Raider and Leviathan Dreadnought fairly quickly. Gulliman chased me across the board, but Celestine, even with the Relic, was faster, and he couldn't catch her. All of Guilliman's friend were dead, and he had 2 wounds left after coming back to life, at the end of the game. Most of my troops were dead too, but not all.
Sisters v. Admech
A small game. I wiped out everything but an Onager Dunecrawler on turn 1, then engaged it in CQC with Celestine and a tank until it died.
Dark Eldar beat codex SM ultramarines.
Was possible due to sm screwing up big time and getting 3 razorbacks tied up with witches 1-st turn. Also, some above average rolls for blasters and a voidbomb dropping a stromraven 1-st turn.
Post the name of the armies that have played so far in your local group and how many games they have won so far, here is what we have so far:
.
I am NOW 24-2 so far.
I played :
Dark Eldar 12 times (all wins), Dark Eldar fought against Space Marines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, T'au Empire, Ynarri, Astra Militarum, Genestealers
Militarum Tempestus 4 times (all wins). They fought Blood Angels and Necrons
T'au Empire 8 times (6-2). I fought Blood Angels, Tzeentch with Magnus twice, Tyranids, Space Wolves, Harlequins, T'au Empire, Adeptus Custodes
Chaos Marines 2 times (all wins), against Adeptus Custodes and T'au Empire
Of the two losses, one was a time-out loss for my Tau Empire. Harlequins had four wounded models left at end of round three and they called time. The game just went too slow or I would have tabled it all turn 4. What can ya do? The other loss was a loss by my Tau Empire against Magnus led Tzeentch. Learned a valuable lesson on target priority in that game, and then avenged the loss a week later by tabling the same army. =) Good times.
Sorry, I can't remember specifically how many games against some of these I played but the opponent list is right. I fixed it. Forgot I played my Tau against Custodes a couple times. Fixed it.
koooaei wrote: Dark Eldar beat codex SM ultramarines.
Was possible due to sm screwing up big time and getting 3 razorbacks tied up with witches 1-st turn. Also, some above average rolls for blasters and a voidbomb dropping a stromraven 1-st turn.
Fun sidebar story. I played against a Custodes+Salamander list for the Konor Campaign and he got too close to start the game. My Defiler used the Strategm for Advance+charge and locked up THREE units round one, and then the round after that because he clumped, a Single spawnb charged all three of his vehicles and locked them up.
I failed 5 frikkin' charges on T1 allowing Magnus to live, Magnus made it to T2 with just 4 wounds to smite my warlord and take down a flyer.
After that my maelstrom cards were the polar opposite of what I needed each turn, in contrast to my opponent, it ended 14-6 in T5 (went for the tabling once I knew I wasn't getting the points, but damn those Rubies are hard to shift).
I blame myself for not finding my magnets to stick Rokkit or Shootas on. Was stuck with Grot Zookas.
Skorcha Dread was pretty good.
My favorite weapon on kanz of all time is now hot garbage :( Grotzookas used to be so much fun, now they are trash...
honestly with that list you need a KFF but at the same time you would have been better off not taking any of those walkers because of how bad they are these days
Thousand Sons vs Necrons - TS win
Thousand Sons vs Orks - TS win
Thousand Sons vs Chaos - TS win
3/3 today at a tournament with a Magnus+2 dreadclaws list. The dreadclaws did fething work against brimstone spam, the flamer ripping through multiple packs of horrors quite easily. A CP re-rolled containment breach really dug in my victory against a strong meta opponent.
Tested out my Loyalist Space Marines with their new codex for the first time today.
LOSS. The first game was with my Salamanders vs Orks. 2000 points, Cleanse and Control. I brought Vulkan, with a Redeemer, some Terminators with a Heavy Flamer, along with a Stormtalon and some other assorted long range firepower units. Notably, my Bikers with Grav Guns didn't have any good targets here. My opponent brought mostly Trukks full of Boyz, Characters on Bikes, Deffkoptas, and a little artillery. I'd thought the flame weapons would work well, but I was rolling below average with # of shots and wounds, while my opponent was rolling high on almost everything. I couldn't keep up the pressure, and fell behind on points.
WIN. My second game was with my Raven Guard vs Astra Militarum, 1500 points, Big Guns Never Tire. I was a bit more shrewd in this game, a bit less confused. Despite a misstep by charging Shrike out of reroll-charges range of the Assault and Vanguard squads that dropped in with him, I was able to use those three units to tie up his two Taurox [and later a Leman Russ] for several turns. He didn't have enough long-range firepower to touch my Devestators in the ruins, and he dropped some Scions 14 away from them, wary of my Stratagems. I was able to mow down the Scions with a small Flamer squad, and eventually took down his Valkyrie, the only other unit that could touch the Devs. A melta squad of mine rushed forward, braving the lasgun fire from a horde [well, 30] of Conscripts in order to blow up a Leman Russ and get me another point to clinch the victory.
It's becoming clear to me that I could use more long-range firepower, for both my Loyalist and Chaos forces.
Updated. Unfortunetly I've had to discard a LOT of Space Marine W/L because people didn't specify codex or index, all Space Marine games after this post:
Flood wrote: Chaos vs SM - Chaos win.
Chaos vs SM - SM win.
Chaos vs SM - Chaos win.
SM + Chaos vs Guard - draw (our first draw of the edition in over 20 games).
[EDIT] All SM are from the Codex (Raven Guard)
Have been discarded unless they specified codex/index.
Tyranids vs. Death Guard (with CSM allies) - Tyranid win.
Was a Relic game. My Zoanthropes snatched the relic and ran away while my Gaunts and Genestealers locked down the majority of his army in close combat. The one Demon prince that was able to fly over and assault the Zoanthropes died a turn later to enhanced Smite and the Exocrine in my back line.
Chaos (index) vs. White Scars (codex). Very satisfying chaos win.
Most notable moment was a Contemptor Dred (6 wounds remaing) sneaking a charge against Abaddon. Abaddon makes all his inv. Saves and then destroys the Contemptor.
Because the entire GK codex has been leaked, he allowed me to use the new psychic powers, and the stratagems that had been leaked.
Psibolt ammunition on a land raider crusader is really nice. 24x Strength 5, ap-1 shots. Not sure it's worth 2 command points, but i will be running a battalion + a flyer wing from here on out for 7 cp.
I Vanguarded across the board and took out about 2/3 of his 'gaunts on turn 1. He dropped 3 lictors and engaged my Exorcist in melee. Then, I killed the rest of his 'gaunts. I think part of the problem was that his list, which was built to be a Brigade, just was full of sub-optimal units and didn't have enough hard hitting things to even have a chance of dealing with me.
Sisters v. Chaos Space Marines
I vanguarded forward and blew up his heavy options, then wiped out a big squad of Rubrics with Celestine in CQC. That was effectively that, because he conceeded, the warp showing him no paths that lead to victory.
Others:
Tau v. Orks
Chaos Space Marnes v. Admech
Space Marines [Codex] v. Death Guard
Space Marines [Codex] v. Chaos Space Marines
I vanguarded forward and blew up his heavy options, then wiped out a big squad of Rubrics with Celestine in CQC. That was effectively that, because he conceeded, the warp showing him no paths that lead to victory.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but i'm surprised you can get games effectively tabling people before they get a turn. Have you tried making a friendlier list so there's some competition?
Tau v. Orks
Chaos Space Marnes v. Admech
Space Marines [Codex] v. Death Guard
Space Marines [Codex] v. Chaos Space Marines
Erm.. who won those?
Tau - This one was really cool to watch. The Ork player failed a short charge, and the Tau player passed a hilarious number of 6+ saves, and it ended up being very close in the end.
CSM - CSM was leading the Admech through the whole game, but only by a narrow margin. In the end, a Predator, a squad of Rubrics, and a Rhino were left.
SM - The zombie tide came upon the hot-pocket marines, and took quite some effort for them to kill, but they also couldn't push through, and it looked like it sort of stalemated in the middle, but the SM's had the points.
SM - Primaris vs. Khorne, it looked like it turned into a bit blob of melee in the center. Supposedly, the SM player had more VP when the game ended, but it ended early.
I vanguarded forward and blew up his heavy options, then wiped out a big squad of Rubrics with Celestine in CQC. That was effectively that, because he conceeded, the warp showing him no paths that lead to victory.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but i'm surprised you can get games effectively tabling people before they get a turn. Have you tried making a friendlier list so there's some competition?
There are at least two players who won't play me.
But, there are also two players who, just yesterday, asked to play me next week, and I've also agreed to play a game against a guy bringing Imperial Knights sometime soon, probably over the weekend. One of those two players who asked I'm looking forwards to playing a lot, because he's running a DE/Harlequins Ynnari army that's been really powerful, and I haven't had a chance to face him yet, and I'm already processing permutations and simulating cases to ensure I have an optimal force that day. And I'm looking forward to seeing how Imperial Knights perform now, and if they were buffed. I'll acknowledge that maybe they were a bit rough as an add on to another Imperial force, but as their own army I found them rather lacking. On the other hand, I don't have all the tools I used to have to make mincemeat of them, like outflanking meltaguns and Leman Russ Vanquisher Tank Commanders and Prescience, so we'll have to see how this goes.
Also, I feel bad about that Chaos game. I feel like I made a mistake somewhere, and it worked out in my favor. Not that it would have made a difference, because his didn't have the means to kill all of my tanks anyway, but I always feel bad if I'm winning drastically and a mistake works out to help me, and doubly so if I don't realize that something doesn't make sense until after I've gone home and I'm re-playing the battle in my head.
Knights are a joke... I minced an all Knight army 2nd week of the Index release. They have nothing going for them, the only army they're good against is a low-model shooting list. They just can't compete on obj. scoring.
Think of them as a oversized Tactical marine; I'm not even kidding.
Quickjager wrote: Knights are a joke... I minced an all Knight army 2nd week of the Index release. They have nothing going for them, the only army they're good against is a low-model shooting list. They just can't compete on obj. scoring.
Think of them as a oversized Tactical marine; I'm not even kidding.
This is not wrong. My Baneblades fare better than Knights because their hull is large enough that I can keep the enemy more than 3" from an objective just by parking on it, and the special rules (while hurting me in some situations compared to a Knight) are better for this sort of 'plop down and never move' gameplay.
Ironically, being charged is the best case scenario for a Baneblade.
Emp Children won by a buttload of points to 2. Really it came down to to throwing out 8 lascannon shots into a landraider and killing it on turn 1 and it exploding and killing half the DA army.
One of those two players who asked I'm looking forwards to playing a lot, because he's running a DE/Harlequins Ynnari army that's been really powerful, and I haven't had a chance to face him yet, and I'm already processing permutations and simulating cases to ensure I have an optimal force that day.
Well if you're tailoring to beat them it's not super hard, they're fast but volume of fire drops them like a bad habit.
Death Guard vs Daemons - DG win Death Guard vs Orks - Orks win Death Guard vs Necrons - Necrons win Death Guard vs Tau - DG win Death Guard vs Dark Angels - DA win
CSM vs Orks - CSM win CSM vs Daemons - Daemons win CSM vs Orks (again) - CSM win CSM vs Necrons - Necrons win
index space marines versus Necrons: draw
index space marines Versus Sisters: Space Marines Win
Index Space Marines Versus GeneStealer Cult: Space Marines Win
Index Space Marines Versus Dark Angels: Space Marines Win
Index Space Marines versus Index Chaos Space Marines: Space Marines Win
Tau versus SOB: SOB win
ORKS vs DEATH GUARD
The DG won!, :( them saves it VERY good if you make them, i was hitting a brick wall all game and demons are very solid vs nobs, D3 with T5 and 2W, they don't belong bottom tier i think. :(
I Vanguarded across the board and took out about 2/3 of his 'gaunts on turn 1. He dropped 3 lictors and engaged my Exorcist in melee. Then, I killed the rest of his 'gaunts. I think part of the problem was that his list, which was built to be a Brigade, just was full of sub-optimal units and didn't have enough hard hitting things to even have a chance of dealing with me.
Sisters v. Chaos Space Marines
I vanguarded forward and blew up his heavy options, then wiped out a big squad of Rubrics with Celestine in CQC. That was effectively that, because he conceeded, the warp showing him no paths that lead to victory.
Others:
Tau v. Orks
Chaos Space Marnes v. Admech
Space Marines [Codex] v. Death Guard
Space Marines [Codex] v. Chaos Space Marines
What the heck force are you using, anyway? I know Sisters, but what kind of comp is this? You've pretty much single-handedly defined the performance of the Sisters around here and I'm super curious as to what the heck you're doing with them to get such absurd wins.
I Vanguarded across the board and took out about 2/3 of his 'gaunts on turn 1. He dropped 3 lictors and engaged my Exorcist in melee. Then, I killed the rest of his 'gaunts. I think part of the problem was that his list, which was built to be a Brigade, just was full of sub-optimal units and didn't have enough hard hitting things to even have a chance of dealing with me.
Sisters v. Chaos Space Marines
I vanguarded forward and blew up his heavy options, then wiped out a big squad of Rubrics with Celestine in CQC. That was effectively that, because he conceeded, the warp showing him no paths that lead to victory.
Others:
Tau v. Orks
Chaos Space Marnes v. Admech
Space Marines [Codex] v. Death Guard
Space Marines [Codex] v. Chaos Space Marines
What the heck force are you using, anyway? I know Sisters, but what kind of comp is this? You've pretty much single-handedly defined the performance of the Sisters around here and I'm super curious as to what the heck you're doing with them to get such absurd wins.
The local league is currently using 75PL as the standard for games.
Curiously, this is only my second time playing in a competitive scenario [and in this case, competitive means "prize for the victor"]. I would be lying if I called myself a casual player, though, as my close friends can attest.
The important thing is understanding your army and why it's good. I've met and bested an IG player who was running a gunline, but didn't actually understand how it worked and play it to the best of it's ability. Ditto tenfold for Space Marines. Just dropping 100 guys and a few Manticores on the board in a pile does not win the game. That's actually one of the thing I like a lot about this edition. You actually have to play and understand how your list works, what it's weaknesses are, and what it's strengths are if you intend to win.
I Vanguarded across the board and took out about 2/3 of his 'gaunts on turn 1. He dropped 3 lictors and engaged my Exorcist in melee. Then, I killed the rest of his 'gaunts. I think part of the problem was that his list, which was built to be a Brigade, just was full of sub-optimal units and didn't have enough hard hitting things to even have a chance of dealing with me.
Sisters v. Chaos Space Marines
I vanguarded forward and blew up his heavy options, then wiped out a big squad of Rubrics with Celestine in CQC. That was effectively that, because he conceeded, the warp showing him no paths that lead to victory.
Others:
Tau v. Orks
Chaos Space Marnes v. Admech
Space Marines [Codex] v. Death Guard
Space Marines [Codex] v. Chaos Space Marines
What the heck force are you using, anyway? I know Sisters, but what kind of comp is this? You've pretty much single-handedly defined the performance of the Sisters around here and I'm super curious as to what the heck you're doing with them to get such absurd wins.
The local league is currently using 75PL as the standard for games.
Curiously, this is only my second time playing in a competitive scenario [and in this case, competitive means "prize for the victor"]. I would be lying if I called myself a casual player, though, as my close friends can attest.
The important thing is understanding your army and why it's good. I've met and bested an IG player who was running a gunline, but didn't actually understand how it worked and play it to the best of it's ability. Ditto tenfold for Space Marines. Just dropping 100 guys and a few Manticores on the board in a pile does not win the game. That's actually one of the thing I like a lot about this edition. You actually have to play and understand how your list works, what it's weaknesses are, and what it's strengths are if you intend to win.
I dunno, you're effectively punching at 200 points above weight due to PL's wonkiness. Putting your list into Battlescribe it came out to 1702 points where a 75 pl game is roughly equivalent to 1500.
The Guard player would have likely struggled to squeeze an effective list out of 75 pl due to how expensive everything is or take expensive options that don't help out. For example, taking a 3x mortar HWS in PL is insane as you're effectively paying 60 'points' for a 27 point unit.
Just made a rough 75pl list for the guard player based on your description and came out to 1495. 3 basilisks, 100 conscripts, 3 wyverns, a manticore, and 4 infantry squads with las/plas. 3 company commanders and 3 commissars. Granted, I could have probably tacked on 100 points in wargear onto the officers, but you would never do that in an actual points based list.
This isn't a dig on you or your abilities, you've made what looks like an extremely effective and strong list and clearly know how to use it. But at least part of your success is due to using a casual format that seems to favor your faction while handicapping at least one of your opponents'.
The important thing is understanding your army and why it's good.
I dunno, you're effectively punching at 200 points above weight due to PL's wonkiness.
But isn't it the same thing? The combination of underpriced stuff and knowing how to run it makes the army effective. Like 7-th eldar and magic deathstars.
The important thing is understanding your army and why it's good.
I dunno, you're effectively punching at 200 points above weight due to PL's wonkiness.
But isn't it the same thing? The combination of underpriced stuff and knowing how to run it makes the army effective. Like 7-th eldar and magic deathstars.
Maybe I'm biased because I'm guard but there really aren't any underpriced things in the Guard index when using PL. Best case scenario is finding stuff that breaks even at the 20:1 exchange ratio and even then you're missing out on most of the amazingly points efficient things like Taurox Primes and Mortars. Scions with 4x meltas would be one of the few 'value' items the Guard have under PL.
Most of the expensive 'free' upgrades PL opens up don't bring anything to the table for Guard. Infantry squads are 3 PL and Veteran squads are 6 PL FFS when my average infantry squad runs 55 points and I can't come up with a good reason to even bring the equivalent of a 120 point veteran squad. That's basically charging me for 3 specials, a heavy, and the heavy flamer plus whatever other upgrades they can take for what would normally be maybe an 80-90 point unit. Company Commanders, of which you usually need 2-3, run 3 PL each. What the hell am I going to give them to make them worth 60 points? Even Plasma Pistol/Power Fist only runs 55.
You can then say that Guard are bottom tier for playing PL games but they rock at points. The difference being that GW is actively making adjustments to points values and has not really messed with PL's. I fully expect a lot of things that are currently extremely efficient points-wise to get adjusted whereas I sincerely doubt PL's will get changed any time soon. This lack of support should be seen as further evidence that PL is not suited for competitive play.
So I played in a couple 2k tourneys and other games, and here are my results.
BA vs Knights/SoB - BA win
BA vs Custodes/SoS/Marines - BA win
BA vs GK - BA win
BA vs SW - BA win
BA vs Chaos - BA win
BA vs Harlies/Eldar - Harlies/Eldar win
BA vs Chaos - BA win
Personally I'm around 11-2-0 with my BA in this new edition. I'm loving putting Sanguinary Guard in a Spartan. I dubbed it the Barrel 'O Bees.
I Vanguarded across the board and took out about 2/3 of his 'gaunts on turn 1. He dropped 3 lictors and engaged my Exorcist in melee. Then, I killed the rest of his 'gaunts. I think part of the problem was that his list, which was built to be a Brigade, just was full of sub-optimal units and didn't have enough hard hitting things to even have a chance of dealing with me.
Sisters v. Chaos Space Marines
I vanguarded forward and blew up his heavy options, then wiped out a big squad of Rubrics with Celestine in CQC. That was effectively that, because he conceeded, the warp showing him no paths that lead to victory.
Others:
Tau v. Orks
Chaos Space Marnes v. Admech
Space Marines [Codex] v. Death Guard
Space Marines [Codex] v. Chaos Space Marines
What the heck force are you using, anyway? I know Sisters, but what kind of comp is this? You've pretty much single-handedly defined the performance of the Sisters around here and I'm super curious as to what the heck you're doing with them to get such absurd wins.
The local league is currently using 75PL as the standard for games.
Curiously, this is only my second time playing in a competitive scenario [and in this case, competitive means "prize for the victor"]. I would be lying if I called myself a casual player, though, as my close friends can attest.
The important thing is understanding your army and why it's good. I've met and bested an IG player who was running a gunline, but didn't actually understand how it worked and play it to the best of it's ability. Ditto tenfold for Space Marines. Just dropping 100 guys and a few Manticores on the board in a pile does not win the game. That's actually one of the thing I like a lot about this edition. You actually have to play and understand how your list works, what it's weaknesses are, and what it's strengths are if you intend to win.
I dunno, you're effectively punching at 200 points above weight due to PL's wonkiness. Putting your list into Battlescribe it came out to 1702 points where a 75 pl game is roughly equivalent to 1500.
The Guard player would have likely struggled to squeeze an effective list out of 75 pl due to how expensive everything is or take expensive options that don't help out. For example, taking a 3x mortar HWS in PL is insane as you're effectively paying 60 'points' for a 27 point unit.
Just made a rough 75pl list for the guard player based on your description and came out to 1495. 3 basilisks, 100 conscripts, 3 wyverns, a manticore, and 4 infantry squads with las/plas. 3 company commanders and 3 commissars. Granted, I could have probably tacked on 100 points in wargear onto the officers, but you would never do that in an actual points based list.
This isn't a dig on you or your abilities, you've made what looks like an extremely effective and strong list and clearly know how to use it. But at least part of your success is due to using a casual format that seems to favor your faction while handicapping at least one of your opponents'.
TLR power level in a competitive setting is silly
Sisters are pretty good in points matches too. Acts of Faith are extremely potent. The last person I played had the characters that give additional Acts of Faith on a 4+ and was firing Heavy Bolters all day long.
The important thing is understanding your army and why it's good.
I dunno, you're effectively punching at 200 points above weight due to PL's wonkiness.
But isn't it the same thing? The combination of underpriced stuff and knowing how to run it makes the army effective. Like 7-th eldar and magic deathstars.
Maybe I'm biased because I'm guard but there really aren't any underpriced things in the Guard index when using PL. Best case scenario is finding stuff that breaks even at the 20:1 exchange ratio and even then you're missing out on most of the amazingly points efficient things like Taurox Primes and Mortars. Scions with 4x meltas would be one of the few 'value' items the Guard have under PL.
Most of the expensive 'free' upgrades PL opens up don't bring anything to the table for Guard. Infantry squads are 3 PL and Veteran squads are 6 PL FFS when my average infantry squad runs 55 points and I can't come up with a good reason to even bring the equivalent of a 120 point veteran squad. That's basically charging me for 3 specials, a heavy, and the heavy flamer plus whatever other upgrades they can take for what would normally be maybe an 80-90 point unit. Company Commanders, of which you usually need 2-3, run 3 PL each. What the hell am I going to give them to make them worth 60 points? Even Plasma Pistol/Power Fist only runs 55.
You can then say that Guard are bottom tier for playing PL games but they rock at points. The difference being that GW is actively making adjustments to points values and has not really messed with PL's. I fully expect a lot of things that are currently extremely efficient points-wise to get adjusted whereas I sincerely doubt PL's will get changed any time soon. This lack of support should be seen as further evidence that PL is not suited for competitive play.
I Vanguarded across the board and took out about 2/3 of his 'gaunts on turn 1. He dropped 3 lictors and engaged my Exorcist in melee. Then, I killed the rest of his 'gaunts. I think part of the problem was that his list, which was built to be a Brigade, just was full of sub-optimal units and didn't have enough hard hitting things to even have a chance of dealing with me.
Sisters v. Chaos Space Marines
I vanguarded forward and blew up his heavy options, then wiped out a big squad of Rubrics with Celestine in CQC. That was effectively that, because he conceeded, the warp showing him no paths that lead to victory.
Others:
Tau v. Orks
Chaos Space Marnes v. Admech
Space Marines [Codex] v. Death Guard
Space Marines [Codex] v. Chaos Space Marines
What the heck force are you using, anyway? I know Sisters, but what kind of comp is this? You've pretty much single-handedly defined the performance of the Sisters around here and I'm super curious as to what the heck you're doing with them to get such absurd wins.
The local league is currently using 75PL as the standard for games.
Curiously, this is only my second time playing in a competitive scenario [and in this case, competitive means "prize for the victor"]. I would be lying if I called myself a casual player, though, as my close friends can attest.
The important thing is understanding your army and why it's good. I've met and bested an IG player who was running a gunline, but didn't actually understand how it worked and play it to the best of it's ability. Ditto tenfold for Space Marines. Just dropping 100 guys and a few Manticores on the board in a pile does not win the game. That's actually one of the thing I like a lot about this edition. You actually have to play and understand how your list works, what it's weaknesses are, and what it's strengths are if you intend to win.
I dunno, you're effectively punching at 200 points above weight due to PL's wonkiness. Putting your list into Battlescribe it came out to 1702 points where a 75 pl game is roughly equivalent to 1500.
The Guard player would have likely struggled to squeeze an effective list out of 75 pl due to how expensive everything is or take expensive options that don't help out. For example, taking a 3x mortar HWS in PL is insane as you're effectively paying 60 'points' for a 27 point unit.
Just made a rough 75pl list for the guard player based on your description and came out to 1495. 3 basilisks, 100 conscripts, 3 wyverns, a manticore, and 4 infantry squads with las/plas. 3 company commanders and 3 commissars. Granted, I could have probably tacked on 100 points in wargear onto the officers, but you would never do that in an actual points based list.
This isn't a dig on you or your abilities, you've made what looks like an extremely effective and strong list and clearly know how to use it. But at least part of your success is due to using a casual format that seems to favor your faction while handicapping at least one of your opponents'.
TLR power level in a competitive setting is silly
My Guard have a very effective 75PL list, and it works out to being worth about 1600 points. Most everyone, save an Ork player who's only lost one game are running over 1500 by a fair amount.
Also, I don't know why you have 3 CC's and 3 Commissars, one of each would do entirely adequately. Let me fix that for you: 1 CC, 1 Commissar, 100 Conscripts, 4 las/plas infantry, 1 Wyvern, 2 Manticores, Pask, Tank Commander. Power Axes, Storm Bolters, and H-K missiles for everyone makes for 550 easily. Pask and the Tank Commander are both way under where their PL suggests they should be, and they're not getting full efficiency from their orders, so replacing them with more worthwhile units is an obvious improvement, bringing the new list to: 1 Company Commander, 3 Tempestor Primes, 2 50x Concsripts, 2 Las-Plas Infantry, 3 Stormtrooper Plasmagun Command Squads, 1 Commissar, 3 Wyverns, 3 Manticores, for 1600.
The Sisters list is also so expensive because I've tacked on almost-useless upgrades, like Power Axes and Inferno Pistols, because I can. There's about 100 points in upgrades that don't get used that I have because they're free and I might as well have them, just in case.
Got in two games today, with my MIXED INDEX DAEMONS and CSM CODEX army. [mostly mixed to include a Knight, Karanak and more summoning options.]
First game was a WIN. 2000 points, vs Tau. Maelstrom, Cloak and Shadows. Hammer and Anvil. He had Longstrike, a bunch of firewarriors, two broadsides, and a Stormsurge in his zone. He dropped down his Commander and 2x3 Suits to try to take out my Knight and Helbrute, but due to a few lucky saves on my part, they both survived relatively unharmed. Interestingly, he also dropped a squad of Vespid down. I managed to summon a squad of Plaguebearers in the middle board, and together with the Plague Marines, managed to keep most of his force blocked from advancing further, so I manged to claim more objectives [the Codex's objective secured-esque rule really helped me here]. He forfeited on the fourth turn, as he had 7 VPs to my 12.
Second game was a LOSS - 1250, Tactical Escalation, vs Blood Angels. Not a lot to say about this one - I'm not used to 1250, and my dice were COMPLETELY against me this game. Rolling 1s and 2s everywhere, and losing my Tzeentch DP in one go against a Dreadnought.
My results from the recent local tournament:
Dark Eldar vs. SM (Codex) + GK (Codex) - Dark Eldar win.
Dark Eldar vs. Imperial Knights + AdMech - IK win.
Dark Eldar vs. Imperial Knights + Plasma Scions - tie.
This was a hilarious loss. Was on track to win as the Tau just had longstrike with 1 wound and in half distance range if 2 frag cannons, farsight with 4 wounds on the opposite end if the board, and like 8 kroot, the Corvus failed its last save against a weapon with no AP. Rolled a 6, then rolled a 5 on mortal wounds for my 5man kill team and a 6 on my full health watchmaster. GG RNGesus.
Here are my results for my custodes forces so far:
Custodes vs CSM (Nurgle Deathguard) (9-3) @ 2k points -Custodes Win
Custodes vs Space Marines (27-7) @ 2k points - Custodes Win (Space marines used their codex)
Custodes vs Astra Milliatrum (12-3) @ 2k points - Custodes Win
Custodes vs Tau (11-3) @ 2k points -Custodes Win
Custodes vs Tyranids (4-1) @ 2k points - Custodes Win
No losses yet, So far so good, but most of the wins were due to either extremely good luck on my part (Tyranids) or extremely poor positioning on my opponent's part(Guard). I suspect both those armies could table me if the dice swung the other way or my opponent deployed correctly. Still, custodes hold objectives very well and that's been winning me games.
Played 3 games in a tournament yesterday:
Game 1: Dark Angels vs. Tyranids/Genestealer Cult: Nids victory
Game 2: Dark Angels vs. Astra Militarum: Ended with a tie.
Game 3: Dark Angels vs. Tau Empire: Dark Angels Victory
(1500pts) Blood Angels vs Astra Militarum: Blood Angels Win
(1750pts) Blood Angels vs Astra Militarum: Blood Angels Win
(2000pts) Blood Angels vs Astra Militarum: Astra Militarum Win
(2150pts) Blood Angels vs Astra Militarum: Blood Angels Win
Note the Astra Militarum lists did not have conscripts and were heavily mechanized. The Blood Angels had a Stormraven and were heavy Death Company.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mulletdude wrote: So I played in a couple 2k tourneys and other games, and here are my results.
BA vs Knights/SoB - BA win
BA vs Custodes/SoS/Marines - BA win
BA vs GK - BA win
BA vs SW - BA win
BA vs Chaos - BA win
BA vs Harlies/Eldar - Harlies/Eldar win
BA vs Chaos - BA win
Personally I'm around 11-2-0 with my BA in this new edition. I'm loving putting Sanguinary Guard in a Spartan. I dubbed it the Barrel 'O Bees.
What is the list you are using? Can you PM me with it?
I decided to play my Space Wolves for this game. My one Land Raider did all the lifting. At the end, 1 of the knights was dead and 2 had 2 wounds remaining, and the last was at 12, all because of the one Land Raider. My Wolf Guard and Long Fangs did, not, however do so well. They did contribute, but a second Land Raider would have done way more, or a pair of Predators. Unfortunately, I don't own another Land Raider or any Predators.
I am impressed with the Land Raider. Having re-rolls of 1 to hit and to wound from characters hiding behind it helped a lot, as did being T8, since it made it bounce a lot of fire the Knights sent my way.
8th is clearly their edition. I look forward to the codex coming out and ruining Acts of Faith for us.
Yeah i'm waiting for the other foot to drop myself...
I'd really like to fight a Sororita list (don't know anyone around here who uses them unfortunetly), I don't understand how they can be so powerful considering how squishy their units are. :/
8th is clearly their edition. I look forward to the codex coming out and ruining Acts of Faith for us.
Yeah i'm waiting for the other foot to drop myself...
I'd really like to fight a Sororita list (don't know anyone around here who uses them unfortunetly), I don't understand how they can be so powerful considering how squishy their units are. :/
They're pretty cheap for that 3+/6++. You get a LOT dudettes for the points.
8th is clearly their edition. I look forward to the codex coming out and ruining Acts of Faith for us.
Yeah i'm waiting for the other foot to drop myself...
I'd really like to fight a Sororita list (don't know anyone around here who uses them unfortunetly), I don't understand how they can be so powerful considering how squishy their units are. :/
They're pretty cheap for that 3+/6++. You get a LOT dudettes for the points.
Do you have a 2000pt list you could present? Just want to see how it compares to my and other 2000pt lists I've seen in terms of body count.
it's not so much that their units are squishy but i think it's the combination of a few things:
1) their AoF that are letting us double tap, move, attack and regen some wounds.
2) their ability to alpha strike. me personally i've been running at least two squads of Seraphim that get into combat first turn. it doesn't sound like much but it does tie up units for at least a turn.
3) their ability to get good units into places that need to be there. Dominion squads are good this, melta heavy units and they go tank hunting.
3) St Celestine. i can't heap enough praise on her.
Automatically Appended Next Post: this has been my list for the past few weeks:
3x Exorcists
Ret Squad (3 heavy bolters & 4 sisters)
Ret Squad (3 Heavy Flamers & 7 sisters) with Repressor
Ret Squad (3 Heavy Flamers & 7 sisters) with Repressor
captain bloody fists wrote: it's not so much that their units are squishy but i think it's the combination of a few things:
1) their AoF that are letting us double tap, move, attack and regen some wounds.
Not bad, balanced by the fact SoB units don't seem to have too much fire power but still quite good.
2) their ability to alpha strike. me personally i've been running at least two squads of Seraphim that get into combat first turn. it doesn't sound like much but it does tie up units for at least a turn.
Wouldn't those Seraphim only have about a 30% chance for a first turn charge (unless you use AoF, but that's only on one of them)? Also, have you been up against many cc armies? I can't see Seraphim units lasting long against anything that wants to be in cc.
3) their ability to get good units into places that need to be there. Dominion squads are good this, melta heavy units and they go tank hunting.
This is good, but once again, how does this fair against cc armies? You want to get close to use your guns but that means they can get off a charge next turn.
3) St Celestine. i can't heap enough praise on her.
She's got some nice buffs but she seems like a stiff breeze would be the end of her: I know my Zerkers would hit her and keep going.
3x Exorcists
Ret Squad (3 heavy bolters & 4 sisters)
Ret Squad (3 Heavy Flamers & 7 sisters) with Repressor
Ret Squad (3 Heavy Flamers & 7 sisters) with Repressor
1992 points
Is that 9 drops? Not bad, almost garanteed first turn. This would be an interesting list to play against.
1) yes true. it's fun to have an Imagfier and a canoness beside an exorcist and pop the AoF and double tap with the exorcist. always fun get some decent hits on a tank or something on the other side of the field.
2) i've had two games against CC units. the first was against a Daemons army. they did die but softening them up with the pistols beforehand does help. i think of my three squads that i ran in that games 1 full unit and the other two units had less than a hand full between them.
3) in that situation the Melta dominions are suicidal. they get some hurt on to a tank or something and then die. they're more of an annoyance than anything else.
4) in my seven games of 8th ed i've only had her completely killed twice and in both of those games it was turn five and it took everything my opponents had to put her down. the 2+/4++ is remarkably resilient.
15 actually. usually i'm second player but i seize more often than not. my sixes love me...
8th is clearly their edition. I look forward to the codex coming out and ruining Acts of Faith for us.
Yeah i'm waiting for the other foot to drop myself...
I'd really like to fight a Sororita list (don't know anyone around here who uses them unfortunetly), I don't understand how they can be so powerful considering how squishy their units are. :/
They're pretty cheap for that 3+/6++. You get a LOT dudettes for the points.
Do you have a 2000pt list you could present? Just want to see how it compares to my and other 2000pt lists I've seen in terms of body count.
2000 pts, Adepta Sororitas, currently untested, iteration IV:
Spearhead:
Canoness, Eviscerator, Storm Bolter
Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolter, 1x Storm Bolter
Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolter, 1x Storm Bolter
Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolter, 1x Storm Bolter
Repressor, Extra Storm Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile
Repressor, Extra Storm Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile
I'm short on equipment for this list, namely Retributors and Repressors [though I also need another meltagun team and another storm bolter team], but this is what I'm building in to.
I've already shared what I'm actually running, earlier.
Spearhead:
Canoness, Eviscerator, Storm Bolter
Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolter, 1x Storm Bolter
Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolter, 1x Storm Bolter
Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolter, 1x Storm Bolter
Repressor, Extra Storm Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile
Repressor, Extra Storm Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile
I'm short on equipment for this list, namely Retributors and Repressors [though I also need another meltagun team and another storm bolter team], but this is what I'm building in to.
I've already shared what I'm actually running, earlier.
2) their ability to alpha strike. me personally i've been running at least two squads of Seraphim that get into combat first turn. it doesn't sound like much but it does tie up units for at least a turn.
Wouldn't those Seraphim only have about a 30% chance for a first turn charge (unless you use AoF, but that's only on one of them)? Also, have you been up against many cc armies? I can't see Seraphim units lasting long against anything that wants to be in cc.
Seraphim are pretty good at locking units. Charge tanks with them. They're fast enough not to be in CQC with things they don't want to be in CQC with, and to get into CQC with things they want to be in CQC with. In addition, I make a point to wipe CQC units off the board before they can get to me.
3) their ability to get good units into places that need to be there. Dominion squads are good this, melta heavy units and they go tank hunting.
This is good, but once again, how does this fair against cc armies? You want to get close to use your guns but that means they can get off a charge next turn.
Very good. I've been the one charging in the league. I charge with a tank, most CQC units aren't good at killing tanks, and most units that are good at killing tanks can be easily focus-fired down. If I CQC you with a Immolator or Repressor, you won't be charging, then I'll fall back and obliterate you next turn.
3) St Celestine. i can't heap enough praise on her.
She's got some nice buffs but she seems like a stiff breeze would be the end of her: I know my Zerkers would hit her and keep going.
No, they won't. Celestine takes out 5, and her minions kill another 2, that leaves, what, 3 hitting me 6 times. Key point: don't get charged. Striking first makes a huge difference, and if you're close enough to charge me, I was definitely close enough to charge you. I have a 30+" melee threat range, you only have about 13" of threat [19" with Warp Time]
3x Exorcists
Ret Squad (3 heavy bolters & 4 sisters)
Ret Squad (3 Heavy Flamers & 7 sisters) with Repressor
Ret Squad (3 Heavy Flamers & 7 sisters) with Repressor
1992 points
Is that 9 drops? Not bad, almost garanteed first turn. This would be an interesting list to play against.
9 drops would go first in your meta? I have to get down to 6 at 75PL, 8 at 2000 Points to match most armies.
Spearhead:
Canoness, Eviscerator, Storm Bolter
Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolter, 1x Storm Bolter
Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolter, 1x Storm Bolter
Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolter, 1x Storm Bolter
Repressor, Extra Storm Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile
Repressor, Extra Storm Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile
I'm short on equipment for this list, namely Retributors and Repressors [though I also need another meltagun team and another storm bolter team], but this is what I'm building in to.
I've already shared what I'm actually running, earlier.
Mind if i pilfer this list and give it a try?
Absolutely. As I said, I'm short on Repressors and Retributors [going to fix the former problem soon, since I'm setting up CAD files for conversion parts, and the latter problem whenever Heavy Bolters go back in stock. I get the email, but by the time I get home they're sold out!], so I haven't tried it yet, but go ahead and try it.
Also, head's up, it was FAQ'ed you can't double-tap Exorcists with Acts of Faith on day 1.
mrhappyface wrote:@Bloody fist, couldn't you stick the characters in transports to drop the number of drops then just disembark first turn?
@Katherine, so this seems to be much like the scion phenomenon: lots of cheep troops all spamming heavy/special weapons?
There's not much else to take. We only have about 20 units, and all but 5 of them are crap, but those 5 are really, really good.
Fair enough for most of your points but on the Zerkers I have to stop you. Zerkers in a Rhino/Drop pod + warptime + icon of wrath can easily get the charge on what you need to get it on. And if you did charge me and left me with 3 left? I'm sorry to tell you that those 3 left are hitting 20 times and would do about 6 damage against you in your turn (without buffs) and would finish you off in my turn. Now if I got the charge? Well then your looking at a total of 82 attacks from the 1 unit (still without buffs).
Nobody should underestimate the fact that these guys will kill you.
As for my meta? Get a lot of lists without transports and a lot of lists that spam cheap units so drops are 10+.
Are you sure? i just checked the FAQ (july issue) and the only thing it says in Imagfiers are freindly <order> units, which i'm sure the exorcist does have. could be wrong as i'm at work without my index.
Page 96 – Celestine
Add the following to the end of the unit description:
‘Only one of this unit may be included in your army.’
Change the first sentence of the Saintly Blessings ability
to read:
‘At the start of each of your turns, you can pick a
friendly Adepta Sororitas unit within 6" of Celestine
that has the Acts of Faith abilityand perform an Act of
Faith with it.’
Page 98 – Imagifier, Simulacrum Imperialis
Change the first sentence of this ability to read:
‘Roll a D6 at the start of each of your turns; on a 4+ you
can pick a friendly <Order> unit within 6" of this model
that has the Acts of Faith ability and perform an Act of
Faith with it.’
mrhappyface wrote: Fair enough for most of your points but on the Zerkers I have to stop you. Zerkers in a Rhino/Drop pod + warptime + icon of wrath can easily get the charge on what you need to get it on. And if you did charge me and left me with 3 left? I'm sorry to tell you that those 3 left are hitting 20 times and would do about 6 damage against you in your turn (without buffs) and would finish you off in my turn. Now if I got the charge? Well then your looking at a total of 82 attacks from the 1 unit (still without buffs).
Nobody should underestimate the fact that these guys will kill you.
As for my meta? Get a lot of lists without transports and a lot of lists that spam cheap units so drops are 10+.
6 isn't enough, I have 7 plus 4 from my 2 geminae, and on your turn, you only get about a third of your attacks before I get to hit, since your attacks are spread over 3 activations. [also, I only count 15 per model with Skarbrand, Chainsword, and World Eaters]
But anyway, melee units that aren't Genestealers or Trygon-borne Hormagaunts are basically a non-problem, because I can charge them first, and I can decimate them in shooting before they get to charge. One of the keys to beating CQC armies is not to let them charge. If you have a unit that can survive a single round of their combat, be the charger, since it prevents them from charging other, more fragile, and more offensively powerful units. Most melee troops have difficulty with tanks, so they make good chargers.
8-10 Drops is where we are at 2000 points, and 5-7 is where most everybody is at 75PL.
mrhappyface wrote: Fair enough for most of your points but on the Zerkers I have to stop you. Zerkers in a Rhino/Drop pod + warptime + icon of wrath can easily get the charge on what you need to get it on. And if you did charge me and left me with 3 left? I'm sorry to tell you that those 3 left are hitting 20 times and would do about 6 damage against you in your turn (without buffs) and would finish you off in my turn. Now if I got the charge? Well then your looking at a total of 82 attacks from the 1 unit (still without buffs).
Nobody should underestimate the fact that these guys will kill you.
As for my meta? Get a lot of lists without transports and a lot of lists that spam cheap units so drops are 10+.
6 isn't enough, I have 7 plus 4 from my 2 geminae, and on your turn, you only get about a third of your attacks before I get to hit, since your attacks are spread over 3 activations. [also, I only count 15 per model with Skarbrand, Chainsword, and World Eaters]
But anyway, melee units that aren't Genestealers or Trygon-borne Hormagaunts are basically a non-problem, because I can charge them first, and I can decimate them in shooting before they get to charge. One of the keys to beating CQC armies is not to let them charge. If you have a unit that can survive a single round of their combat, be the charger, since it prevents them from charging other, more fragile, and more offensively powerful units. Most melee troops have difficulty with tanks, so they make good chargers.
8-10 Drops is where we are at 2000 points, and 5-7 is where most everybody is at 75PL.
It's over just two activations and, as I said, that's without psychic, aura and strategem buffs. And the 20 attacks back is all together, which is why they're so dangerous: 3 of them can kill two geminae and drop Celestine to 5 wounds without any extra help, when it comes round to my turn I'll be throwing on the buffs to finish the saint off.
Whilst you are right that a good shooting player doesn't let your opponent get into combat with what it wants to get into combat with, I would say it's the mark of a good cqc player to be able to be mobile enough to get the charge off on what you want to get it on. Whether or not I charge you or you deny me is up to the dice gods.
Space Marines (Codex) vs Space Wolves - Space Marine Victory
1500 point game, I mostly took Primaris (intercessors, reivers and hellblasters) with some sternguard and a stormhawk thrown in. Made the mistake of throwing Lysander at Bjorn (mostly to see what he could do) but he had no chance and died the turn after. Didn't matter too much though, the amount of wounds I had to soak the incoming attacks was too much for him and the Wolves were slowly ground down. Fantastic fight though!
Tau vs deathguard W deathguard
Tau vs Astra militarum W astra militarum
Tau vs mechanicus W mechanicus
Space marines vs death guard W space marines
Space marines vs death guard W space marines
Space marines vs space wolves W space marines
(Only non-officio models in these lists were HQ units.)
Officio Assassinorum vs Space Marines Win Assassins
Officio Assassinorum vs Space Wolves Win Assassins
Officio Assassinorum vs Chaos Marines Win Assassins
Officio Assassinorum vs Grey Knights(w/ IK) Win Assassins
8th is clearly their edition. I look forward to the codex coming out and ruining Acts of Faith for us.
Yeah i'm waiting for the other foot to drop myself...
I'd really like to fight a Sororita list (don't know anyone around here who uses them unfortunetly), I don't understand how they can be so powerful considering how squishy their units are. :/
They're pretty cheap for that 3+/6++. You get a LOT dudettes for the points.
Do you have a 2000pt list you could present? Just want to see how it compares to my and other 2000pt lists I've seen in terms of body count.
Last list I used was something like
Canonness
Celestine + 2 Gemini
10 SoBs, storm bolter, basic superior
10 SoBs, storm bolter, basic superior
10 SoBs, storm bolter, basic superior
9xRepentia, rhino
Sister Of Repentance
Imagifier
Imagifier
6x Dominions, 4 meltas, Immolator w/flamers
Exorcist
Exorcist
8 Retributors, 4 heavy bolters
Thats about 1500pts. I converted up some Death Cult Assassins, Crusaders and Acroflagellants over the week and was dithering between jamming some of them into some Immolators in addition to a small unit of Seraphim and a Evicerator Canonness or trying out a small detachment of Grey Knights. I ended up going with Grey Knights. I made a thread about how well that worked out...
Honestly, I like blobs of basic Sisters. They're good objective holders because they're hard to shift if you get them behind a wall or something. I should note that my group isn't competitive and I mainly play against Tau and IG. We play to win but at the same time we just take what we like. Saying that, I'm unbeaten with my Sisters so far.
Came in third, if only i had 1 more point, i would have probably tied for second, because my major defeat was *almost* a minor defeat, and was at the hands of the tournament winner (undefeated).
Grey Knights vs Chaos Space Marines - Grey Knights; Major Victory Grey Knights vs Genestealer Cult - Grey Knights; Major Victory Grey Knights vs Officio Assassinorum; Major Defeat
I will throw out there that the character targeting rules seem a bit wonky. If you're closer to something locked in combat, than a character, guess what, you can't shoot at the character, even though there's no legal target closer to you, as you can't fire into combat. It's an awful rule that isn't intuitive in the least bit.
mrhappyface wrote: Fair enough for most of your points but on the Zerkers I have to stop you. Zerkers in a Rhino/Drop pod + warptime + icon of wrath can easily get the charge on what you need to get it on. And if you did charge me and left me with 3 left? I'm sorry to tell you that those 3 left are hitting 20 times and would do about 6 damage against you in your turn (without buffs) and would finish you off in my turn. Now if I got the charge? Well then your looking at a total of 82 attacks from the 1 unit (still without buffs).
Nobody should underestimate the fact that these guys will kill you.
As for my meta? Get a lot of lists without transports and a lot of lists that spam cheap units so drops are 10+.
6 isn't enough, I have 7 plus 4 from my 2 geminae, and on your turn, you only get about a third of your attacks before I get to hit, since your attacks are spread over 3 activations. [also, I only count 15 per model with Skarbrand, Chainsword, and World Eaters]
But anyway, melee units that aren't Genestealers or Trygon-borne Hormagaunts are basically a non-problem, because I can charge them first, and I can decimate them in shooting before they get to charge. One of the keys to beating CQC armies is not to let them charge. If you have a unit that can survive a single round of their combat, be the charger, since it prevents them from charging other, more fragile, and more offensively powerful units. Most melee troops have difficulty with tanks, so they make good chargers.
8-10 Drops is where we are at 2000 points, and 5-7 is where most everybody is at 75PL.
It's over just two activations and, as I said, that's without psychic, aura and strategem buffs. And the 20 attacks back is all together, which is why they're so dangerous: 3 of them can kill two geminae and drop Celestine to 5 wounds without any extra help, when it comes round to my turn I'll be throwing on the buffs to finish the saint off.
Whilst you are right that a good shooting player doesn't let your opponent get into combat with what it wants to get into combat with, I would say it's the mark of a good cqc player to be able to be mobile enough to get the charge off on what you want to get it on. Whether or not I charge you or you deny me is up to the dice gods.
Where do the 20 come from? I count 2 base, 1 from Chainsword and 1 from Skarbrand multiplied times 3, [First fight, Berzerker's natural second go, and World Eaters' stratagem for a 3rd go]. Butcher's Nails only kicks in for +1 if you charge. How do you get up to 10 base?
I personally think Terminators are more concerning than Berzerkers. Terminators can deep strike and re-roll charges with the Icon of Wrath, so they're not unlikely to make it in off the deep strike.
Came in third, if only i had 1 more point, i would have probably tied for second, because my major defeat was *almost* a minor defeat, and was at the hands of the tournament winner (undefeated).
Grey Knights vs Chaos Space Marines - Grey Knights; Major Victory
Grey Knights vs Genestealer Cult - Grey Knights; Major Victory
Grey Knights vs Officio Assassinorum; Major Defeat
I will throw out there that the character targeting rules seem a bit wonky. If you're closer to something locked in combat, than a character, guess what, you can't shoot at the character, even though there's no legal target closer to you, as you can't fire into combat. It's an awful rule that isn't intuitive in the least bit.
Yeah, character spam is hilarious. My friend brought a gimmick librarian army to fight my 3 baneblades - it was something like 40 librarians vs 3 baneblades. Easy win right?
Well, I am only allowed to target 3 a turn, but they can smite all day.
Came in third, if only i had 1 more point, i would have probably tied for second, because my major defeat was *almost* a minor defeat, and was at the hands of the tournament winner (undefeated).
Grey Knights vs Chaos Space Marines - Grey Knights; Major Victory
Grey Knights vs Genestealer Cult - Grey Knights; Major Victory
Grey Knights vs Officio Assassinorum; Major Defeat
I will throw out there that the character targeting rules seem a bit wonky. If you're closer to something locked in combat, than a character, guess what, you can't shoot at the character, even though there's no legal target closer to you, as you can't fire into combat. It's an awful rule that isn't intuitive in the least bit.
Yeah, character spam is hilarious. My friend brought a gimmick librarian army to fight my 3 baneblades - it was something like 40 librarians vs 3 baneblades. Easy win right?
Well, I am only allowed to target 3 a turn, but they can smite all day.
Admittedly, bringing 40 librarians does seem like a natural response 3 Baneblades.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Where do the 20 come from? I count 2 base, 1 from Chainsword and 1 from Skarbrand multiplied times 3, [First fight, Berzerker's natural second go, and World Eaters' stratagem for a 3rd go]. Butcher's Nails only kicks in for +1 if you charge. How do you get up to 10 base?
I personally think Terminators are more concerning than Berzerkers. Terminators can deep strike and re-roll charges with the Icon of Wrath, so they're not unlikely to make it in off the deep strike.
"And the 20 attacks back is all together", the champion has 3A + Chainsword and the other two have 2A + chainsword which makes 10 from three, then 20 from two rounds of combat which does a total of 6 damage to you in one fight phase.
Terminators will absolutely wreck any multi-wound models but not so great against single wound units.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Where do the 20 come from? I count 2 base, 1 from Chainsword and 1 from Skarbrand multiplied times 3, [First fight, Berzerker's natural second go, and World Eaters' stratagem for a 3rd go]. Butcher's Nails only kicks in for +1 if you charge. How do you get up to 10 base?
I personally think Terminators are more concerning than Berzerkers. Terminators can deep strike and re-roll charges with the Icon of Wrath, so they're not unlikely to make it in off the deep strike.
"And the 20 attacks back is all together", the champion has 3A + Chainsword and the other two have 2A + chainsword which makes 10 from three, then 20 from two rounds of combat which does a total of 6 damage to you in one fight phase.
Terminators will absolutely wreck any multi-wound models but not so great against single wound units.
20 attacks from the whole unit isn't scary at all. Buffed, 'zerkers get 15 attacks per model on the charge, 12 when receiving the charge. Hence why charging the berzerkers takes away so much of their power. If I charge, not only are their initial casualties factored in before they get to hit me, taking away 12 attacks per model killed, but they also outright lose 30 attacks off the entire squad. Their lethality absolutely plummets. In addition, because they take 3 activations, they only get 4 per model on an CP Interrupt, and only get 4 per model on their turn before I get to hit. If you don't have Skarbrand, you lose another 3 attacks per model.
Without Skarbrand, I kill 6, you strike back with 4 for 39 attacks for 3 wounds [after accounting for DttFE], killing a Gemini and wounding the other. On your turn, you hit with 12, killing my other Gemini, and then I kill 4 with Celestine, resulting in squad wiped. If you're not morale-proof, you also lose about 1-2 on average from battleshock, further reducing your output on your turn.
With Skarbrand nearby, I kill 7, Your remaining 3, however, still get 3 wounds in, achieving the same effect. If you're using Chainaxes for 2 attacks and Chainswords for 2 attacks, this increases to 4. Skarbrand makes you morale proof, and then you hit on your turn to stick a wound on me before I wipe you out.
Skarbrand himself, in the fight, can turn the tide, because he's big and scary, but he can fight Celestine on his own without help from Berzerkers. But he's also big, and I'd be a dunce not to blow him up on turn 1, because he's too big to summon, too big to hide, and too big to ride a transport, and not tough enough to survive a stack of Meltaguns.
I've seen the World Eaters in action, and they're definitely a force to be reckoned with, but the do lose a lot of you get the charge, and it starts to fall apart if Skarbrand dies. So don't be the one to take the World Eaters' charge, charge them first, it take a lot away from them. Another thing to keep in mind is the option to charge depleted 'zerker squads with tanks. It takes about 100 Chainaxe attacks, or 160 Chainsword attacks, to wreck a tank, and a full squad of Berzerkers outputs 123 attacks when it receives the charge, so if you take out a few of them, an expendable tank can safely go into battle with them and tie them up, preventing them from charging units that are fragile and have real firepower, like Dominions, until the enemy turn. Skarbrand makes this dangerous, though, since the tank must be perfectly calibrated to die during the World Eaters' turn so the Berzerkers can be shot and obliterated.
However, when someone says "melee" I think "Genestealers". Genestealers put Berzerkers to shame, and require no external buffs from something big and vulnerable like Skarbrand to perform. 20 'stealers outputs 4 attacks per model at AP-1, and for 2 points less per model than Berzerkers they naturally get deep-strike and re-rolls on the charge, to ensure that they'll make it in and make it in at full strength, and they'll always be the ones charging. Getting charged really hurts Berzerkers ability, but because Genestealers start in Cult Ambush, they don't have the deal with that.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: 20 attacks from the whole unit isn't scary at all. Buffed, 'zerkers get 15 attacks per model on the charge, 12 when receiving the charge. Hence why charging the berzerkers takes away so much of their power. If I charge, not only are their initial casualties factored in before they get to hit me, taking away 12 attacks per model killed, but they also outright lose 30 attacks off the entire squad. Their lethality absolutely plummets. In addition, because they take 3 activations, they only get 4 per model on an CP Interrupt, and only get 4 per model on their turn before I get to hit. If you don't have Skarbrand, you lose another 3 attacks per model.
I'd say their ability to still through out a bucket of hits after taking major casualties, without buffs and not charging is pretty scary.
Without Skarbrand, I kill 6, you strike back with 4 for 39 attacks for 3 wounds [after accounting for DttFE], killing a Gemini and wounding the other. On your turn, you hit with 12, killing my other Gemini, and then I kill 4 with Celestine, resulting in squad wiped. If you're not morale-proof, you also lose about 1-2 on average from battleshock, further reducing your output on your turn.
Are you running these Berzerkers base with just a chainsaw? No, no, no: Power Fist + Chainsword on the champ and Chainaxe + Chainsword on the rest, this does about 8 wounds to you in your turn (not taking into account DttFE) which I believe leaves you with no Gemini and Celestine on 3 wounds?
With Skarbrand nearby, I kill 7, Your remaining 3, however, still get 3 wounds in, achieving the same effect. If you're using Chainaxes for 2 attacks and Chainswords for 2 attacks, this increases to 4. Skarbrand makes you morale proof, and then you hit on your turn to stick a wound on me before I wipe you out.
Again, think you have the wrong Zerker set up: 3 with Skarbrand will do 9 wounds which is the Gemini gone again and Celestine down to 2 wounds.
Skarbrand himself, in the fight, can turn the tide, because he's big and scary, but he can fight Celestine on his own without help from Berzerkers. But he's also big, and I'd be a dunce not to blow him up on turn 1, because he's too big to summon, too big to hide, and too big to ride a transport, and not tough enough to survive a stack of Meltaguns.
Aye, Skarbrand won't last long but you want him for his aura not his combat capabilities.
I've seen the World Eaters in action, and they're definitely a force to be reckoned with, but the do lose a lot of you get the charge, and it starts to fall apart if Skarbrand dies. So don't be the one to take the World Eaters' charge, charge them first, it take a lot away from them. Another thing to keep in mind is the option to charge depleted 'zerker squads with tanks. It takes about 100 Chainaxe attacks, or 160 Chainsword attacks, to wreck a tank, and a full squad of Berzerkers outputs 123 attacks when it receives the charge, so if you take out a few of them, an expendable tank can safely go into battle with them and tie them up, preventing them from charging units that are fragile and have real firepower, like Dominions, until the enemy turn. Skarbrand makes this dangerous, though, since the tank must be perfectly calibrated to die during the World Eaters' turn so the Berzerkers can be shot and obliterated.
I've played 13 games of 8th now using my WE and my Berzerkers have been charged 3 times in all of those games and each of the charges against them were made after they had wiped 2 or more units, I don't let people get the charge on me before I've already done my damage.
However, when someone says "melee" I think "Genestealers". Genestealers put Berzerkers to shame, and require no external buffs from something big and vulnerable like Skarbrand to perform. 20 'stealers outputs 4 attacks per model at AP-1, and for 2 points less per model than Berzerkers they naturally get deep-strike and re-rolls on the charge, to ensure that they'll make it in and make it in at full strength, and they'll always be the ones charging. Getting charged really hurts Berzerkers ability, but because Genestealers start in Cult Ambush, they don't have the deal with that.
And because Zerkers start in transports they don't have to deal with it. Also, for 3 points more you get Zerkers who have 8 attacks on the charge or now you can make them AL and you get the genestealer ambush ability but drop to 6 attacks each, both of these Zerker units have -1AP attacks and all at higher strength than the Genestealers' attacks.
Keep in mind the following important consideration: if your unit doesn't kill me on my turn, you can't charge a different unit on yours. Hence why Skarbrand is so important, because as long as he's alive, I can't end the combat on my terms and obliterate you, I have to stay in until my unit dies, which, if you're doing it right, will happen on one of my turns.
Also, I haven't seen Berzerkers with Powerfists, and that strikes me as inefficient. Berzerkers aren't trying to attack tanks, and if they have to, they usually can destroy it without the help of a Powerfist. I think power axes, swords, or claws would all be better, with the maul being a useful consideration against my armies.
And, while Berzerkers' ability to kill Celestine is related to how Sisters handle CQC armies, the comparing of Berzerkers to Celestine is fairly pointless measuring [a contest which I, by default, lose ].
The important aspect is that, against CQC armies that start on the board, we can engage them on our terms thanks to our longer charge-threat range, and charge them with units they aren't well optimized to kill that will tarpit them until our next turn, thus preventing them from charging our more fragile but more powerful Dominion units.
Came in third, if only i had 1 more point, i would have probably tied for second, because my major defeat was *almost* a minor defeat, and was at the hands of the tournament winner (undefeated).
Grey Knights vs Chaos Space Marines - Grey Knights; Major Victory Grey Knights vs Genestealer Cult - Grey Knights; Major Victory Grey Knights vs Officio Assassinorum; Major Defeat
I will throw out there that the character targeting rules seem a bit wonky. If you're closer to something locked in combat, than a character, guess what, you can't shoot at the character, even though there's no legal target closer to you, as you can't fire into combat. It's an awful rule that isn't intuitive in the least bit.
Yeah, character spam is hilarious. My friend brought a gimmick librarian army to fight my 3 baneblades - it was something like 40 librarians vs 3 baneblades. Easy win right?
Well, I am only allowed to target 3 a turn, but they can smite all day.
Are you sure it wasn't 40 primaris psykers? Librarians are a little over 100 per. You couldn't fit that many in a list. but it's still a fun thought. I thought about bringing a brother captain and a bunch of librarians in terminator armor. Suddenly i'm smiting at a 36" range. Just try and deny the witch. lol.
And what you highlighted is the exact problem when someone has like 5 of every assassin.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Keep in mind the following important consideration: if your unit doesn't kill me on my turn, you can't charge a different unit on yours. Hence why Skarbrand is so important, because as long as he's alive, I can't end the combat on my terms and obliterate you, I have to stay in until my unit dies, which, if you're doing it right, will happen on one of my turns.
Also, I haven't seen Berzerkers with Powerfists, and that strikes me as inefficient. Berzerkers aren't trying to attack tanks, and if they have to, they usually can destroy it without the help of a Powerfist. I think power axes, swords, or claws would all be better, with the maul being a useful consideration against my armies.
And, while Berzerkers' ability to kill Celestine is related to how Sisters handle CQC armies, the comparing of Berzerkers to Celestine is fairly pointless measuring [a contest which I, by default, lose ].
The important aspect is that, against CQC armies that start on the board, we can engage them on our terms thanks to our longer charge-threat range, and charge them with units they aren't well optimized to kill that will tarpit them until our next turn, thus preventing them from charging our more fragile but more powerful Dominion units.
I don't feel like we're going to meet an agreement on this and unless I fly to America to throw down the gaunlet I doubt we're going to be able to resolve this: you think you can charge me before I can and stop me in my tracks, I think I could hit you hard and cripple most of your big units before you can do enough damage to me.
There's also the fact that I have no experience with SoB players and, from what you've said, you've had no experience with a competitive WE player (no offence to your local group but they don't sound like they're making the best use out of Zerkers).
To be 100% honest Berzerkers would not kill Celestine unless the person controlling her lets you. Remember, she's got a 24" move, and a 2+/4++ statline.
I run Celestine in my list, she wrecks virtually everything, including *every* single kind of MEQ. Berzerkers are hot but not against mobile targets.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Keep in mind the following important consideration: if your unit doesn't kill me on my turn, you can't charge a different unit on yours. Hence why Skarbrand is so important, because as long as he's alive, I can't end the combat on my terms and obliterate you, I have to stay in until my unit dies, which, if you're doing it right, will happen on one of my turns.
Also, I haven't seen Berzerkers with Powerfists, and that strikes me as inefficient. Berzerkers aren't trying to attack tanks, and if they have to, they usually can destroy it without the help of a Powerfist. I think power axes, swords, or claws would all be better, with the maul being a useful consideration against my armies.
And, while Berzerkers' ability to kill Celestine is related to how Sisters handle CQC armies, the comparing of Berzerkers to Celestine is fairly pointless measuring [a contest which I, by default, lose ].
The important aspect is that, against CQC armies that start on the board, we can engage them on our terms thanks to our longer charge-threat range, and charge them with units they aren't well optimized to kill that will tarpit them until our next turn, thus preventing them from charging our more fragile but more powerful Dominion units.
I don't feel like we're going to meet an agreement on this and unless I fly to America to throw down the gaunlet I doubt we're going to be able to resolve this: you think you can charge me before I can and stop me in my tracks, I think I could hit you hard and cripple most of your big units before you can do enough damage to me.
There's also the fact that I have no experience with SoB players and, from what you've said, you've had no experience with a competitive WE player (no offence to your local group but they don't sound like they're making the best use out of Zerkers).
They're not. My local group is pretty bad. Also, there's very few World Eaters and a lot of Thousand Sons.
But, because I'm faster, I control the engagement range. Exception is Genestealers.
Tack on another SoB victory, this time against Salamanders in a great big gun line. I'm currently 8-0 with the ladies and 1-0 with Grey Knights. Hopefully between Inquisitor Lord Katherine and I we're really stacking the deck for the Sisters of Battle Hype Train. If anybody is interested here's the list at 2000 points. (Battalion and Spearhead)
Celestine w/ 2 Geminae
Canoness w/ Eviscerator and Combi Melta
Canoness w/ power maul
Ministorum Priest w/ Combi Flamer
Imagifier
BSS x 10 w/ Heavy Flamer, Flamer, Power Sword
BSS x 8 w/ Heavy Flamer, Flamer, Power Axe
BSS x 5 w/ Heavy Flamer, Flamer
Seraphim x 8 w/ 4 Inferno pistols
Dominions x 5 w/ 5 meltaguns
Dominions x 5 w/ 5 meltaguns
Retributors x 8 w/ 4 Heavy Bolters
Exorcist
Exorcist
Rhino
Immolator w/flamers
Immolator w/flamers
Immolator w/flamers
This list would be way nastier if I dropped the BSS and took all Dominions and Seraphim but I like my gaming group too much for that...
There are at least 5 of us contributing, I think. It's good to see all of us doing well.
That sounds about right, the last update showed 60 games reported so that's probably 6-10 of us or so. And hey, I've got nothing but love for my fellow heresy purgers!!!
I do have one concern though, if somebody from GW sees us all doing well they'll probably gut us in the next update...
QUICK, EVERYBODY START LOSING SOME GAMES BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!
That sounds about right, the last update showed 60 games reported so that's probably 6-10 of us or so. And hey, I've got nothing but love for my fellow heresy purgers!!!
I do have one concern though, if somebody from GW sees us all doing well they'll probably gut us in the next update...
QUICK, EVERYBODY START LOSING SOME GAMES BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!
as i said in another comment. i'm waiting for the other foot to drop and for us to get a HUGE nerf.
So far I'm 2/0 with 8th edition sisters, but I still play my superheavy tank company now and again, so most of my games have decidedly been without SOB.
I'm curious, earlier in this thread someone mentioned that the SoB are doing better than average because most of the people playing them are veterans of 40k. It's true for me, I've been enjoying plastic crack since about 1997 and have played roughly 600 or 700 (I figure 30-40 games a year for 20 years...) games of 40k plus a handful of tournaments. I've got 4 other armies but at least 150 or so of those games were with the ladies.
What's the experience level of the rest of the "Heresy Purgers"?
IandI wrote: I'm curious, earlier in this thread someone mentioned that the SoB are doing better than average because most of the people playing them are veterans of 40k. It's true for me, I've been enjoying plastic crack since about 1997 and have played roughly 600 or 700 (I figure 30-40 games a year for 20 years...) games of 40k plus a handful of tournaments. I've got 4 other armies but at least 150 or so of those games were with the ladies.
What's the experience level of the rest of the "Heresy Purgers"?
Been playing since the end of 2nd (though didn't really learn the game till 3rd, so take it with a grain of salt; I played like 4 games of 2nd and I was like 9 at the time, so it went predictably off the rails).
Been playing sisters themselves since mid-7th, probably?
IandI wrote: I'm curious, earlier in this thread someone mentioned that the SoB are doing better than average because most of the people playing them are veterans of 40k.
No disrespect to anyone but that's just arrogance talking. Sisters are solid.
Are veteran Ork players not as good as veteran Sisters players? Or does that have to do with one armies power level versus the other?
IandI wrote: I'm curious, earlier in this thread someone mentioned that the SoB are doing better than average because most of the people playing them are veterans of 40k. It's true for me, I've been enjoying plastic crack since about 1997 and have played roughly 600 or 700 (I figure 30-40 games a year for 20 years...) games of 40k plus a handful of tournaments. I've got 4 other armies but at least 150 or so of those games were with the ladies.
What's the experience level of the rest of the "Heresy Purgers"?
Been playing 40k since about 1995. Sisters since early 2000s? I was playing them with the Witch Hunter codex and was still living at home, which means it was definitely about 15 years ago. I distinctly remember a friend got me a box of Seraphim for my birthday at my parents house.
Just found this post so I can add in. (Seems like a fun statistics to keep up with)
I've had 3 games of 8th so far all Emperor's Children, all losses >.>. But they were all close at least!
Game 1 - it was a team game, Tau/Nids/EC vs DA/IG/Orks (All from Index). My side with the EC lost.
Game 2 - Kondor week 2 - EC (Index) vs IG. IG won.
Game 3 - Kondor week 3 - EC (Codex) vs BA. BA won.
** This game was crazy because I lost track of how many times I rolled a 1 on my d3 damage from Blastmasters against all termies and primaris marines! **
I'll be sticking with my EC for the rest of the Kondor campaign because they are painted.
IandI wrote: I'm curious, earlier in this thread someone mentioned that the SoB are doing better than average because most of the people playing them are veterans of 40k.
No disrespect to anyone but that's just arrogance talking. Sisters are solid.
Are veteran Ork players not as good as veteran Sisters players? Or does that have to do with one armies power level versus the other?
Can't be bothered with the truth or otherwise of the quoted statement, but what has the quoted statement got to do with how good veteran ork players are?
The quote was suggesting that MOST sisters players are veterans, not that veteran sisters players are better then veteran ork (or any other) players. It's more about how many (proportionally) there is and not how good they are compared to each other.
To explain that line of reasoning more clearly for you - If all sisters players had been playing for 20+ years and were all veteran players with plenty of experience, and this was not true of those with other armies then it may not matter how awesome the other veteran players are, the average could expected to be lower for that army due to the not so veteran players pulling down the average.
By all means disagree with the statement, and it may be due to power levels etc.
So the suggested line of logic allows that veteran ork players may in fact be better than the veteran sisters players, or not.
Came in third, if only i had 1 more point, i would have probably tied for second, because my major defeat was *almost* a minor defeat, and was at the hands of the tournament winner (undefeated).
Grey Knights vs Chaos Space Marines - Grey Knights; Major Victory
Grey Knights vs Genestealer Cult - Grey Knights; Major Victory
Grey Knights vs Officio Assassinorum; Major Defeat
I will throw out there that the character targeting rules seem a bit wonky. If you're closer to something locked in combat, than a character, guess what, you can't shoot at the character, even though there's no legal target closer to you, as you can't fire into combat. It's an awful rule that isn't intuitive in the least bit.
Is that how that works?
*scurries rulebook*
Huh. We'll probably keep playing it as 'enemy units in close combat do not count when determining the closest unit when targeting characters'.
mrhappyface wrote: Mfw people think plastic SoB will come with the new codex
I don't.
In fact, I started a BA army because I figure it's gonna be a long wait so I might as well try something new. And since Sanguinius Died For Your Sins, I'll support his sons.
mrhappyface wrote: Mfw people think plastic SoB will come with the new codex
I don't.
In fact, I started a BA army because I figure it's gonna be a long wait so I might as well try something new. And since Sanguinius Died For Your Sins, I'll support his sons.
Not necessarily you, just people.
Also, are you sure you woudn't want to try some Heresy? We've got cookies!
It stands to reason that top-tier factions would have a higher win percentage, regardless of the number of veteran players.
You are confusing correlation and causation.
I spend a chunk of my life looking at causation and correlation, I'm pretty sure I understand it. This, however, was about whether the argument presented, no matter how right or wrong it was, meant that 'vets' of one faction were better than the other as you seem to be suggesting. It didn't and in fact could well support the opposite.
The original post referenced (or the one I believe was being referenced) was not about ITC results at all, it was about the data in this thread and how at the time there were only probably 4 players reporting sisters games. The point actually being made ironically was that there was to little decent data (in this thread specifically) to support any major argument about how good sisters are as a faction due to player skew.
If you want to argue that the stats elsewhere than this thread support some other argument, then sure go ahead. I'm have no issue per se with what you are saying in that respect.
As for your statement, that it stands to reason that top tier = high win percentage. Well that may be true intuitively, but most certainly not a given. Another game (based on star trek) where I played years ago in some tourneys and collated some stats we saw one of the top factions (feds) or 'top tier' as you would put it, have the worst win rate (worst by a long way out of 12 factions), precisely for the reasons you say don't matter. It was by far and away the most popular faction, but whilst very good when played by very good players was very bad when played by those who did not understand the subtleties.
IandI wrote: I'm curious, earlier in this thread someone mentioned that the SoB are doing better than average because most of the people playing them are veterans of 40k. It's true for me, I've been enjoying plastic crack since about 1997 and have played roughly 600 or 700 (I figure 30-40 games a year for 20 years...) games of 40k plus a handful of tournaments. I've got 4 other armies but at least 150 or so of those games were with the ladies.
What's the experience level of the rest of the "Heresy Purgers"?
I've been playing 40k since 2010/11 as Crimson Fists but picked up the sisters in about 2013. i've liked strategy games so i picked it up slowing since there was a huge amount of rules to digest.
IandI wrote: I'm curious, earlier in this thread someone mentioned that the SoB are doing better than average because most of the people playing them are veterans of 40k.
The consensus here is that all sob players are pro, all ork players are stupid and that it's not l2p arguement in any conceivable way.
Space Wolves VS Daemons, SW win
Daemons VS Blood Angels, Daemons win
Blood Angels VS Astra militarum, BA win
Astra militarum VS Daemons, AM win
Tau Empire VS Chaos marines, Tau win
Deathguard vs Mixed Chaos, Chaos win
Deathguard vs Astra Militarum/Inquisition, Astra Militarum win
Deathguard vs Mixed Imperium (Scions, Sisters, Grey Knights and a bunch fo Wyverns), Imperium win
Oddly enough, I'm not contributing. My sisters are shelved until I can get plastics. Naturally this is a long wait; c'est la vie.
Mfw people think plastic SoB will come with the new codex
Ha. No.
I mean, they might, but I doubt it. So long as our products go "temporarily out of stock online" and not "last chance to buy," I think it's safe to bet that we're not getting plastic for at least a month or two.
As I explained elsewhere, plastic Sisters wouldn't be for us. Those of us who play Sisters already have a fair amount of stuff, and are willing to pay $9 a model for metal figures. GW knows that. Plastics would be targeted at securing new audience for the army, which, while not a bad thing, is something they're not likely to do.
Anyway:
Sisters v. Dark Eldar
I had first go, and crossed the board and blew up half his Wracks and both his Pain Engines. He charged me with his remaining ones, and I burned them up in flamer overwatch. He also engaged Celestine with his named Haemonculus. From that point on, Celestine became bogged down with and unable to kill the Haemonculus, and the rest of my forces worked on taking out his Venoms and Ravagers. His two airplanes circled around and stuck some hits on my tanks. I focused on his ground units, since I didn't really have the means to interfere with his aircraft, and charged my Penitent Engine in to get Celestine out on turn 4, since she and the Haemonculus still hadn't managed to stick any damage to each other, even using Acts of Faith to fight twice during my turn. The Pengine worked and the Haemonculus died, good riddance. I killed his last Venom, and that ended the game since he had no more ground troops. It was actually quite a fight, at least from my perspective. Sisters victory.
Also, from other folks [winner v. loser]
Orks v. Tyranids
Dark Eldar v. Blood Angels
Guard v. Guard
Tau v. Necrons
IandI wrote: I'm curious, earlier in this thread someone mentioned that the SoB are doing better than average because most of the people playing them are veterans of 40k.
The consensus here is that all sob players are pro, all ork players are stupid and that it's not l2p arguement in any conceivable way.
What?
Orks players aren't stupid. I know a guy whose been playing Orks since 5th and he's currently only lost one game out of fifteen played. On the other hand, I know several Orks and Tyranids players who specifically eschew "good" lists and units because "it's too powerful" or "it's not fluffy", and get their asses handed to them.
We had a good laugh about it when he made a tactical withdraw instead of charging ahead, so as to stay out of range of two full squads of termigaunts and get into cover: "Orks using tactics? What madness is this?"
Strategically, I think Dark Eldar and Harlequins do what we do, but slightly better. However, Dark Eldar and Harlequins don't have the option to ally with Imperial Guard for Earthshaker Guns and Scions. I've seen quite a few Sisters lists that are Sisters in name, but otherwise Imperial Guard lists, or at least have very strong Imperial Guard or Space Marine presence.
I think the Act of Faith rule should be like Canticles, in that it only triggers if the entire detachment is Adepta Sororitas/Adeptus Ministorium.
Anyway, I'm just happy that we're kicking Space Marine ass. I guess the real definition of genetically superior is having two X chromosomes .
Deathguard vs Astra Militarum
Deathguard vs Astra Militarum
Deathguard vs Astra Militarum
Deathguard vs Astra Militarum/Primaris Marines
Deathguard vs Astra Militarum/Primaris Marines
Deathguard vs Orks
Chaos Space Marines (Codex) vs Dark Angels
Tyranids vs Astra Militarum
Lost
Nurgle Daemons vs Astra Militarum
Deathguard vs Orks
Deathguard vs Space Marines
Deathguard vs Grey Knights
Deathguard vs Astra Militarum
Deathguard vs Eldar
Deathguard vs FW Death Korps
Deathguard vs FW Death Korps
Draw
Deathguard vs FW Death Korps
Deathguard vs FW Death Korps
koooaei wrote: The consensus here is that all sob players are pro, all ork players are stupid
The sad thing here is the sisters players haven't been the ones saying Ork players are bad, yet we're lumped in anyway because feth us, that's why.
Marmatag wrote: Acts of faith should have a higher chance to fail. I would say they should need a 4+ for normal units, and a 3+ for HQs to manifest an act of faith.
So wait, you think that not only should we we roll 2+ to figure out if we even GET an act of faith (one, singular) each turn, we then would have to roll 4+ to see if we even get to use it?
Christ, might as well fething remove it entirely, because apparently only Space Marines are fething allowed to have anything fething nice apparently.
You know what? Screw it. Marines should have to roll a 4+ every turn. If they don't pass, they don't get to use their chapter tactics. This is balance! What, you don't like it? It still happens more often than you'd let sisters get their acts of faith-- and it applies to the entire army! What's not to love? Why don't you like this idea? Don't you WANT the defining rule of your army to be turned in to a 50% chance?
Your "fix" just basically gives Sisters all the more reason to take Celestine. We already only get one act of faith a turn normally. We get one more on a 4+ with imagifiers-- your solution would cut their effectiveness in half, making the already weak and pathetic unit even more of a waste of points. Celestine gets a guaranteed one, so might as well take her, since there's a good chance your AoF would fail anyway unless you use it on her. She's the only HQ we have worth using an AoF on-- what, you think a canoness is worth using one on? What a fething joke. She has less offensive capability and mobility even with an act of faith than a damn space marine captain-- at least he can be given a jump pack and a wider variety of equipment. Oh look you can give make her carry a combiplasma at 60 points, or an eviscerator at 67 (which wounds marines on a 3+ and most vehicles on a 5+). THAT'LL MAKE A DIFFERENCE!
Pfeh. If you want to "fix" Sisters, at least learn how they work first.
Marmatag wrote: Acts of faith should have a higher chance to fail. I would say they should need a 4+ for normal units, and a 3+ for HQs to manifest an act of faith.
So wait, you think that not only should we we roll 2+ to figure out if we even GET an act of faith (one, singular) each turn, we then would have to roll 4+ to see if we even get to use it?
Marmatag wrote: Acts of faith should have a higher chance to fail. I would say they should need a 4+ for normal units, and a 3+ for HQs to manifest an act of faith.
Or, a price hike for anything Sororitas / Ministorum that can cast an act of faith.
I'm just going to point out:
We have 1 a turn. 2 with Saint Celestine.
It used to be: We have a number of Faith points roughly equal to the number of units in the army, and a Faith Point may be spent to attempt an Act of Faith. Roll 2d6, if the result is higher than the squad size, it activates. You get another Faith Point when a unit dies.
Then it became: Each unit can try an Act of Faith once, on Leadership. For 10 points, it can try again.
Now it's 1 a turn.
I absolutely detest the Act of Faith system as current;y implemented, because it's engineered with the idea of us being a small, allied contingent onto a larger force, and is dramatically more powerful if you're a Space Marines army with Celestine and a squad of Sisters than it is if you're an entirely Sisters army.
If units that can manifest Acts of Faith need a price increase, we'd be in the same boat as Grey Knights, who are paying for features they can't use.
I think Marmatag meant you can choose all your units to use Acts of Faith but have to roll off to see if the SoB are faithful enough.
Personally I prefer them just having it automatically and possibly giving them a points raise if they are dominating. Maybe roll off for each unit (2+ for characters, 3+ for non-characters).
Ynnarri does sort of the same thing and yet they can do it with ease, for every unit. SoB get one and even then, it's at the mercy of dice gods.
Frozocrone wrote: I think Marmatag meant you can choose all your units to use Acts of Faith but have to roll off to see if the SoB are faithful enough.
mrhappyface wrote: Don't you have cheap HQs that also give you extra acts of faith?
No.
We have a 150-250 point HQ who gives an additional one, but also has to use it to retain optimum effectiveness, and 40 point Elites that have a 50% chance of granting an additional one, but those 40 point elites can't have jump packs and block vanguard, so they're entirely non-viable.
mrhappyface wrote: Don't you have cheap HQs that also give you extra acts of faith?
Nope.
We have 40-point elite choices that give us an additional act of faith to a single unit within 6" of the elite choice if they roll a 4+. And are equipped with a boltgun and no customization, so they basically are a points sink that have to be carried around with the units that need the AoF-- and as a result, using them with our best unit (dominions) causes them to lose the rule that makes them our best unit.
mrhappyface wrote: Don't you have cheap HQs that also give you extra acts of faith?
Celestine isn't cheap.
They do have some characters in the Elite slot (I forget name) but (A) they eat up elites slots which might be used for other stuff and (B) it's a 4+ so again not guaranteed.
mrhappyface wrote: Don't you have cheap HQs that also give you extra acts of faith?
Celestine isn't cheap.
They do have some characters in the Elite slot (I forget name) but (A) they eat up elites slots which might be used for other stuff and (B) it's a 4+ so again not guaranteed.
mrhappyface wrote: Don't you have cheap HQs that also give you extra acts of faith?
Celestine isn't cheap.
They do have some characters in the Elite slot (I forget name) but (A) they eat up elites slots which might be used for other stuff and (B) it's a 4+ so again not guaranteed.
All the elites are crap.
Sounds plausible. My one game against them was basically three of the 4+ AoF girls, Battle Sister squads, Dominions(?) some jump girls, Immolator and Exorcist. Canoness and Priest too, because my opponent was kind enough not to field Celestine at 1000.
I'd like Acts If Faith to be some kind of combination of the current system and the Codex: Witch Hunters system. You have a set amount of Acts determined by the army you take and martyrdom if characters and they can be spent on the effects we have now but that might be a pain to manage since they'd be similar to CPs.
Finally, Marmatag, you're going to give us anger issues.
You repeatedly demonstrate no understand of armies and their balance, and when our competitive lists perform better than "fluffy" Space Marine lists, you propose alterations to areas where the army differs from Space Marines to make them worse than Space Marines without actually addressing the actual problem, if it's a problem at all.
First off, let me give you a quick run down of the Sisters army:
Saint Celestine: The only viable HQ because she has a jump pack and grants an Act of Faith, which she uses for herself to keep pace with the rest of the army.
Canoness: A brick. Costs points, does nothing usually.
Battle Sisters: Space Marines, but with poor weapon skill, toughness, and strength. Don't have access to the good special and heavy weapons.
Seraphim: Jump Troops, but crappy at melee. They have 4 Inferno Pistols. They're only good when an Act of Faith is used on them, so only one can be taken viably in an army.
Dominions: Special Weapons troops. Our only legitimately good unit. Vanguard makes them good, and they lose it if they share a transport with non-Dominions. Dominions generally don't make use of Acts of Faith, because tanks can't get Acts. And, because they lose the special rule that makes them good if there's anything else with them, everything else is non-viable.
Imagifier: More than 2 IG Platoon Commanders, for a 50/50 chance at doing the thing once. Can't keep up on foot, and blocks Vanguard.
Dialogus: What? We're MSU Hospitaller: Okay, like an Imagifier, but only has 1 option and it's the worst of the 4 options.
Repentia: Did you want a terrible unit that costs a hilarious number of points? T3, 6+ Invul, A2, S6, AP-2, all for 17 points!
Celestians: Battle Sisters, but more expensive? Why bother.
Exorcist: It's a Leman Russ, except it doesn't have sponsons. So it just has the remarkably gakky Battle Cannon. I have no idea why it's D3 damage when other Krak missiles are D6. I'll direct you to the 108 point Basilisk for comparison, which has +1 STR and gets to roll twice and pick the highest for shot count.
Retributors: Space Marine Devastators, but they don't get any of the good Heavy Weapons. Oh.
Penitent Engines: Okay, a dreadnought, but for melee. It doesn't have Vanguard nor can it benefit from Acts of Faith, so it basically a distraction, at best.
Crusaders, Arcos and Death Cult: All melee troops that can't get to melee. I mean, sure, saturation with them can be done, but why?
As you can see, Sisters is an army that built around a single unit. Dominions. Even then, it's not out of line or anything, like Stormtroopers are. Most of our units are strictly inferior to their Space Marine counterparts, and the only reason Dominions are better than Sternguard is because Dominions do a mostly-unique thing. And it's not a unique thing, actually, because fast and deep-striking special weapons teams are actually fairly common in all armies but Space Marines. In fact, Sternguard can do it with a Drop Pod.
Stormtroopers are egregious because, for 9PPM, they get BS3+, all the Special Weapons, Deep Strike and pay IG discount prices for guns. Dominions are 10PPM and require a transport that is functionally identical but strictly more expensive than similarly equipped Space Marine counterparts, and pay Space Marine prices for guns. Dominions are good, but not game-breaking in the least.
And, of course, since the army is built on Dominions when playing as Adepta Sororitas [as opposed to Imperial Guard with Celestine and one squad of friends], Acts of Faith are basically irrelevant.
So what is making our army so good?
Well, we're well equipped to beat the crap out of a popular Space Marine mech infantry build. In fact, all my "all comers" lists are actually tailored lists to beat Space Marines, because there are a lot more Space Marines than there are Tyranids. R
Second, because of the lack of useful variety in the army, there's no middle casual ground between "really really bad" and "competitive". There's probably no small number of Sisters players who, like me, are running lists that can hold their own in a tourney for casual games.
Third, we can take allies to fill in our holes. Dark Eldar, who can do our thing better than we can, can't take Basilisks to help them out with what they're not good at.
So, if you want to complain that Grey Knights are underpowered, I'll commiserate with you, because they are. But the rest of the Space Marines aren't, and the problem with Grey Knights is a design flaw in the Grey Knights bringing them down, which needs to be corrected by adjusting the problem with the Grey Knights, not by dragging every other thing in the game down to the same level.
I would argue the imagifier is probably the best elite the Sororitas have. They're very expensive for what they are but their 50% to generate an act of faith for a nearby unit make them a potentially significant buff for any squad that they don't accidentally trip up. The problem is you're paying essentially 28 points for only a 50% chance.
That said, the new act of faith system is big and flashy, relative to the previous ones, but because it's not really scalable I don't think it's the real star power of the Sororitas: they have three broad categories of weapons and the ability to put lots of them to effect, very few distracting bells and whistles, and a stat-line that results in a points-efficient middle ground between guardsman and space marine.
Captain Joystick wrote: I would argue the imagifier is probably the best elite the Sororitas have. They're very expensive for what they are but their 50% to generate an act of faith for a nearby unit make them a potentially significant buff for any squad that they don't accidentally trip up.
And what squad would that be?
They can't accompany dominions or seraphim. So basically all they can do is help retributors fire their heavy bolters more often, or make a battle sister squad run a little bit further or fire their boltguns twice. And that's if they're lucky and succeed.
They can't accompany dominions or seraphim. So basically all they can do is help retributors fire their heavy bolters more often, or make a battle sister squad run a little bit further or fire their boltguns twice. And that's if they're lucky and succeed.
Yes, they don't get to hang off the coat-tails of the very top units in the army, at best they can roll up in a rhino a turn or two later with a handful of apology cards, it's true.
But between effect vs points I still think she's better than the other choices in the elite slot, and you can do a lot worse than buff infantry in an army that has good infantry, in an edition that is much kinder to infantry.
They can't accompany dominions or seraphim. So basically all they can do is help retributors fire their heavy bolters more often, or make a battle sister squad run a little bit further or fire their boltguns twice. And that's if they're lucky and succeed.
Yes, they don't get to hang off the coat-tails of the very top units in the army, at best they can roll up in a rhino a turn or two later with a handful of apology cards, it's true.
But between effect vs points I still think she's better than the other choices in the elite slot, and you can do a lot worse than buff infantry in an army that has good infantry, in an edition that is much kinder to infantry.
That's not saying a whole lot. The bar is really low.
I think Repentia should be AP-4, damage D3, A4, and have Desperate for Redemption. Or have 3 attacks and have Desperate for Redemption be an auto-trigger. They can stay 17 points, since they're not a horde unit, but they should be worth those 17 points.
Celestians, I think, could be corrected by making them able to take all Power Weapons. I'd also give them and Seraphim, as the elite of the order, the ability to trigger their own Act of Faith.
Another Konor game CSM (World eaters, index) vs Iron Hands (codex) world eaters win. Really good close game like a couple I've had in 8th. Loving it so far!
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: I think the Act of Faith rule should be like Canticles, in that it only triggers if the entire detachment is Adepta Sororitas/Adeptus Ministorium.
CSM (IW) vs Space Wolves: CSM win
CSM (IW) vs Space Marines (IF): CSM win
CSM (IW) vs Tyranids: CSM win
CSM (IW) vs Necrons: Necron win
CSM (IW) vs Tyranids: Tyranid win
3 more games to report:
Everything used the relevant Codex.
Salamanders vs Chaos Marines (Nurgle Flavored): Salamanders Win
Primaris Ultramarines vs Chaos Marines (Khorne Flavored)
Chaos Marines Win
Ultramarines vs Grey Knights
Grey Knights Win
I was the Grey Knights player and it started poorly. My opponent seized and popped a Razorback for first blood. My first turn consisted of a ton of fire and psychic energy being expended to kill about 3 dudes on bikes. (Highlight: A Stormraven fires 2 lascannons, 2 Krak missles, 2 Stormstrike missles, and 24 bolter shots into 3 Grav Centurians. They take 1 wound.) His turn 2 he kills the Stormraven and 9 Strike Marines and I'm about ready to call it, as I've lost about 700 points to his 90, but I quit whining and figure I'll play it out. My turn two, the Warp opens up and starts sucking Ultramarines into the void and I charge into melee with Voldus, 8 Paladin's, and a Dreadknight Grand Master.
That's when things turned around.
This was only my second game of 8th with the Grey Knights, and a lot of their stuff seems grossly overpriced, but let me say, Voldus, Paladin's, and DKGM's are not on that list. Turn 5 I tabled him, and after wading through an entire army there was still 1 Paladin, Voldus on 3 wounds, and the Dreadknight on full health. They Godzilla'd their way through 4 veteran bikers, a land raider, 3 Rhinos, 3 Assault Centurians, a biker Captain,a Chaplain, a techmarine on bike, an Apothecary on bike, and about 14 tactical Marines. It was awesome.
Point interval is absolutely crucial, in 500 points Chaos will crush pretty much anything (Tide of Traitors ), so will Sororitas, 1000-1500 Marines become great
ChargerIIC wrote: I'm really suprised how many people are up to 12+ game winning streaks with no losses... O_O
People omitting their losses might be understandable () but I hope they aren't. That'd really screw up the ratios for the lesser played armies.
I don't play as often as I like but I always put up my results, regardless of whether it's a win or lose. Only one's I think I wouldn't put up are draws since OP didn't put in a category for them (maybe I should just for completion sakes).
So yeah I am responsible for bringing down the Orks, sorry boyz.
People omitting their losses might be understandable () but I hope they aren't. That'd really screw up the ratios for the lesser played armies.
I'd imagine player skill fluctuates wildly from area to area and wins/losses are somewhat colored by that. I was almost undefeated with 6th ed IG (which weren't exactly considered top tier) back when I played at the game store I went to years ago. In the games I played with my friends at my apartment who are VERY good at the game, the win percentage was much lower.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: I think the Act of Faith rule should be like Canticles, in that it only triggers if the entire detachment is Adepta Sororitas/Adeptus Ministorium.
i agree with this.
newp. That would be stupid.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Chaos Space Marines report. I lost to Black Templars. Konor campaign loss. I played super poorly. =(
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Marmatag wrote: The polls will be skewed in smaller factions by competitive players interacting mostly with casual players.
The armies don't matter if you're a min-maxer playing against someone whose guiding light is "that looks neat. I'll bring it! I wonder what it costs."
Nonetheless...keep the reports rolling. Its fun to see.
Another subpar tournament performance courtesy of me.
Astra Militarum v Ynnari - Ynnari win
Ugh kill points, at least it was power level kp. Not that it mattered because he almost tabled me with his ridiculous death avatar and ravager spam. The fact that he could stop a lot of my stuff from shooting whenever things died by charging me on my turn was another unpleasant surprise.
Astra Militarum v Imperium Soup (Admech/Knight/Space Wolves) - Admech/Wolves win
Nightfight.
As in the whole game I was taking massive penalties to hit as his Cerastus just walked on up unopposed and wrecked me. Turned out later the guy was doing rerolls after modifiers but 6 Kastelans with phosphor were deleting 20 conscripts a turn, not sure how many extra kills he got from misunderstanding how rerolls work. The wolves deep struck in the hole the Kastelans made and started wrecking my backline. Also not sure what the TO's were thinking making an entire game nightfight. They really should have posted a mission packet.
Astra Militarum v Thousand Sons (Index) - Astra Militarum win
Friggin finally. Unfortunately, he was a newer player to 8th, so it wasnt a very satisfying win. Basically shot rubrics while ignoring Magnus as best as I could. Then used advance + move move move to snatch objectives on the last turn. Barely squeaked out the win.
It really felt like 60 conscripts is just not enough at a competitive level. I had 115 infantry altogether, but every game the conscripts got wiped pretty much to the man and my infantry squads got shredded too.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: I think the Act of Faith rule should be like Canticles, in that it only triggers if the entire detachment is Adepta Sororitas/Adeptus Ministorium.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: I think the Act of Faith rule should be like Canticles, in that it only triggers if the entire detachment is Adepta Sororitas/Adeptus Ministorium.
i agree with this.
newp. That would be stupid.
How is that stupid?
PM me if you're really interested in that discussion. =)
Imperial guard (me) vs primaris marines - win for guard
imperial guard (me) vs death guard - win for guard
imperial guard (me) vs sisters of battle - loss for guard
imperial guard (me) vs sisters of battle - loss for guard
imperial guard (me) vs imperial guard - loss for guard (me)
I keep trying to make armored company work. It doesn't. Tanks get a max 1 turn of firing before competent armies lock them in combat and make them 100% useless.
ThePorcupine wrote: Imperial guard (me) vs primaris marines - win for guard
imperial guard (me) vs death guard - win for guard
imperial guard (me) vs sisters of battle - loss for guard
imperial guard (me) vs sisters of battle - loss for guard
imperial guard (me) vs imperial guard - loss for guard (me)
I keep trying to make armored company work. It doesn't. Tanks get a max 1 turn of firing before competent armies lock them in combat and make them 100% useless.
If you like tanks I have been having success with a superheavy company. they're not quite so concerned with being locked up.
. turn 2 his 
measuring [a contest which I, by default, lose 
) but I hope they aren't. That'd really screw up the ratios for the lesser played armies.
