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2017/08/13 22:48:20
Subject: We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
8th is clearly their edition. I look forward to the codex coming out and ruining Acts of Faith for us.
Yeah i'm waiting for the other foot to drop myself...
I'd really like to fight a Sororita list (don't know anyone around here who uses them unfortunetly), I don't understand how they can be so powerful considering how squishy their units are. :/
They're pretty cheap for that 3+/6++. You get a LOT dudettes for the points.
2017/08/13 22:53:03
Subject: We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
8th is clearly their edition. I look forward to the codex coming out and ruining Acts of Faith for us.
Yeah i'm waiting for the other foot to drop myself...
I'd really like to fight a Sororita list (don't know anyone around here who uses them unfortunetly), I don't understand how they can be so powerful considering how squishy their units are. :/
They're pretty cheap for that 3+/6++. You get a LOT dudettes for the points.
Do you have a 2000pt list you could present? Just want to see how it compares to my and other 2000pt lists I've seen in terms of body count.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
2017/08/13 22:53:39
Subject: We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
it's not so much that their units are squishy but i think it's the combination of a few things:
1) their AoF that are letting us double tap, move, attack and regen some wounds.
2) their ability to alpha strike. me personally i've been running at least two squads of Seraphim that get into combat first turn. it doesn't sound like much but it does tie up units for at least a turn.
3) their ability to get good units into places that need to be there. Dominion squads are good this, melta heavy units and they go tank hunting.
3) St Celestine. i can't heap enough praise on her.
Automatically Appended Next Post: this has been my list for the past few weeks:
3x Exorcists
Ret Squad (3 heavy bolters & 4 sisters)
Ret Squad (3 Heavy Flamers & 7 sisters) with Repressor
Ret Squad (3 Heavy Flamers & 7 sisters) with Repressor
1992 points
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/13 22:58:17
captain bloody fists wrote: it's not so much that their units are squishy but i think it's the combination of a few things:
1) their AoF that are letting us double tap, move, attack and regen some wounds.
Not bad, balanced by the fact SoB units don't seem to have too much fire power but still quite good.
2) their ability to alpha strike. me personally i've been running at least two squads of Seraphim that get into combat first turn. it doesn't sound like much but it does tie up units for at least a turn.
Wouldn't those Seraphim only have about a 30% chance for a first turn charge (unless you use AoF, but that's only on one of them)? Also, have you been up against many cc armies? I can't see Seraphim units lasting long against anything that wants to be in cc.
3) their ability to get good units into places that need to be there. Dominion squads are good this, melta heavy units and they go tank hunting.
This is good, but once again, how does this fair against cc armies? You want to get close to use your guns but that means they can get off a charge next turn.
3) St Celestine. i can't heap enough praise on her.
She's got some nice buffs but she seems like a stiff breeze would be the end of her: I know my Zerkers would hit her and keep going.
3x Exorcists
Ret Squad (3 heavy bolters & 4 sisters)
Ret Squad (3 Heavy Flamers & 7 sisters) with Repressor
Ret Squad (3 Heavy Flamers & 7 sisters) with Repressor
1992 points
Is that 9 drops? Not bad, almost garanteed first turn. This would be an interesting list to play against.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
2017/08/13 23:55:07
Subject: We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
1) yes true. it's fun to have an Imagfier and a canoness beside an exorcist and pop the AoF and double tap with the exorcist. always fun get some decent hits on a tank or something on the other side of the field.
2) i've had two games against CC units. the first was against a Daemons army. they did die but softening them up with the pistols beforehand does help. i think of my three squads that i ran in that games 1 full unit and the other two units had less than a hand full between them.
3) in that situation the Melta dominions are suicidal. they get some hurt on to a tank or something and then die. they're more of an annoyance than anything else.
4) in my seven games of 8th ed i've only had her completely killed twice and in both of those games it was turn five and it took everything my opponents had to put her down. the 2+/4++ is remarkably resilient.
15 actually. usually i'm second player but i seize more often than not. my sixes love me...
8th is clearly their edition. I look forward to the codex coming out and ruining Acts of Faith for us.
Yeah i'm waiting for the other foot to drop myself...
I'd really like to fight a Sororita list (don't know anyone around here who uses them unfortunetly), I don't understand how they can be so powerful considering how squishy their units are. :/
They're pretty cheap for that 3+/6++. You get a LOT dudettes for the points.
Do you have a 2000pt list you could present? Just want to see how it compares to my and other 2000pt lists I've seen in terms of body count.
2000 pts, Adepta Sororitas, currently untested, iteration IV:
Spearhead:
Canoness, Eviscerator, Storm Bolter
Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolter, 1x Storm Bolter
Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolter, 1x Storm Bolter
Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolter, 1x Storm Bolter
Repressor, Extra Storm Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile
Repressor, Extra Storm Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile
I'm short on equipment for this list, namely Retributors and Repressors [though I also need another meltagun team and another storm bolter team], but this is what I'm building in to.
I've already shared what I'm actually running, earlier.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2017/08/14 00:04:51
Subject: We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
Spearhead:
Canoness, Eviscerator, Storm Bolter
Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolter, 1x Storm Bolter
Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolter, 1x Storm Bolter
Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolter, 1x Storm Bolter
Repressor, Extra Storm Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile
Repressor, Extra Storm Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile
I'm short on equipment for this list, namely Retributors and Repressors [though I also need another meltagun team and another storm bolter team], but this is what I'm building in to.
I've already shared what I'm actually running, earlier.
2) their ability to alpha strike. me personally i've been running at least two squads of Seraphim that get into combat first turn. it doesn't sound like much but it does tie up units for at least a turn.
Wouldn't those Seraphim only have about a 30% chance for a first turn charge (unless you use AoF, but that's only on one of them)? Also, have you been up against many cc armies? I can't see Seraphim units lasting long against anything that wants to be in cc.
Seraphim are pretty good at locking units. Charge tanks with them. They're fast enough not to be in CQC with things they don't want to be in CQC with, and to get into CQC with things they want to be in CQC with. In addition, I make a point to wipe CQC units off the board before they can get to me.
3) their ability to get good units into places that need to be there. Dominion squads are good this, melta heavy units and they go tank hunting.
This is good, but once again, how does this fair against cc armies? You want to get close to use your guns but that means they can get off a charge next turn.
Very good. I've been the one charging in the league. I charge with a tank, most CQC units aren't good at killing tanks, and most units that are good at killing tanks can be easily focus-fired down. If I CQC you with a Immolator or Repressor, you won't be charging, then I'll fall back and obliterate you next turn.
3) St Celestine. i can't heap enough praise on her.
She's got some nice buffs but she seems like a stiff breeze would be the end of her: I know my Zerkers would hit her and keep going.
No, they won't. Celestine takes out 5, and her minions kill another 2, that leaves, what, 3 hitting me 6 times. Key point: don't get charged. Striking first makes a huge difference, and if you're close enough to charge me, I was definitely close enough to charge you. I have a 30+" melee threat range, you only have about 13" of threat [19" with Warp Time]
3x Exorcists
Ret Squad (3 heavy bolters & 4 sisters)
Ret Squad (3 Heavy Flamers & 7 sisters) with Repressor
Ret Squad (3 Heavy Flamers & 7 sisters) with Repressor
1992 points
Is that 9 drops? Not bad, almost garanteed first turn. This would be an interesting list to play against.
9 drops would go first in your meta? I have to get down to 6 at 75PL, 8 at 2000 Points to match most armies.
Spearhead:
Canoness, Eviscerator, Storm Bolter
Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolter, 1x Storm Bolter
Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolter, 1x Storm Bolter
Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolter, 1x Storm Bolter
Repressor, Extra Storm Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile
Repressor, Extra Storm Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile
I'm short on equipment for this list, namely Retributors and Repressors [though I also need another meltagun team and another storm bolter team], but this is what I'm building in to.
I've already shared what I'm actually running, earlier.
Mind if i pilfer this list and give it a try?
Absolutely. As I said, I'm short on Repressors and Retributors [going to fix the former problem soon, since I'm setting up CAD files for conversion parts, and the latter problem whenever Heavy Bolters go back in stock. I get the email, but by the time I get home they're sold out!], so I haven't tried it yet, but go ahead and try it.
Also, head's up, it was FAQ'ed you can't double-tap Exorcists with Acts of Faith on day 1.
mrhappyface wrote:@Bloody fist, couldn't you stick the characters in transports to drop the number of drops then just disembark first turn?
@Katherine, so this seems to be much like the scion phenomenon: lots of cheep troops all spamming heavy/special weapons?
There's not much else to take. We only have about 20 units, and all but 5 of them are crap, but those 5 are really, really good.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/08/14 00:19:52
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2017/08/14 00:37:15
Subject: We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
Fair enough for most of your points but on the Zerkers I have to stop you. Zerkers in a Rhino/Drop pod + warptime + icon of wrath can easily get the charge on what you need to get it on. And if you did charge me and left me with 3 left? I'm sorry to tell you that those 3 left are hitting 20 times and would do about 6 damage against you in your turn (without buffs) and would finish you off in my turn. Now if I got the charge? Well then your looking at a total of 82 attacks from the 1 unit (still without buffs).
Nobody should underestimate the fact that these guys will kill you.
As for my meta? Get a lot of lists without transports and a lot of lists that spam cheap units so drops are 10+.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
2017/08/14 01:02:17
Subject: We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
Are you sure? i just checked the FAQ (july issue) and the only thing it says in Imagfiers are freindly <order> units, which i'm sure the exorcist does have. could be wrong as i'm at work without my index.
Page 96 – Celestine
Add the following to the end of the unit description:
‘Only one of this unit may be included in your army.’
Change the first sentence of the Saintly Blessings ability
to read:
‘At the start of each of your turns, you can pick a
friendly Adepta Sororitas unit within 6" of Celestine
that has the Acts of Faith abilityand perform an Act of
Faith with it.’
Page 98 – Imagifier, Simulacrum Imperialis
Change the first sentence of this ability to read:
‘Roll a D6 at the start of each of your turns; on a 4+ you
can pick a friendly <Order> unit within 6" of this model
that has the Acts of Faith ability and perform an Act of
Faith with it.’
Emphasis mine.
2017/08/14 02:03:33
Subject: We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
mrhappyface wrote: Fair enough for most of your points but on the Zerkers I have to stop you. Zerkers in a Rhino/Drop pod + warptime + icon of wrath can easily get the charge on what you need to get it on. And if you did charge me and left me with 3 left? I'm sorry to tell you that those 3 left are hitting 20 times and would do about 6 damage against you in your turn (without buffs) and would finish you off in my turn. Now if I got the charge? Well then your looking at a total of 82 attacks from the 1 unit (still without buffs).
Nobody should underestimate the fact that these guys will kill you.
As for my meta? Get a lot of lists without transports and a lot of lists that spam cheap units so drops are 10+.
6 isn't enough, I have 7 plus 4 from my 2 geminae, and on your turn, you only get about a third of your attacks before I get to hit, since your attacks are spread over 3 activations. [also, I only count 15 per model with Skarbrand, Chainsword, and World Eaters]
But anyway, melee units that aren't Genestealers or Trygon-borne Hormagaunts are basically a non-problem, because I can charge them first, and I can decimate them in shooting before they get to charge. One of the keys to beating CQC armies is not to let them charge. If you have a unit that can survive a single round of their combat, be the charger, since it prevents them from charging other, more fragile, and more offensively powerful units. Most melee troops have difficulty with tanks, so they make good chargers.
8-10 Drops is where we are at 2000 points, and 5-7 is where most everybody is at 75PL.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/14 03:51:45
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2017/08/14 04:53:31
Subject: We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
mrhappyface wrote: Fair enough for most of your points but on the Zerkers I have to stop you. Zerkers in a Rhino/Drop pod + warptime + icon of wrath can easily get the charge on what you need to get it on. And if you did charge me and left me with 3 left? I'm sorry to tell you that those 3 left are hitting 20 times and would do about 6 damage against you in your turn (without buffs) and would finish you off in my turn. Now if I got the charge? Well then your looking at a total of 82 attacks from the 1 unit (still without buffs).
Nobody should underestimate the fact that these guys will kill you.
As for my meta? Get a lot of lists without transports and a lot of lists that spam cheap units so drops are 10+.
6 isn't enough, I have 7 plus 4 from my 2 geminae, and on your turn, you only get about a third of your attacks before I get to hit, since your attacks are spread over 3 activations. [also, I only count 15 per model with Skarbrand, Chainsword, and World Eaters]
But anyway, melee units that aren't Genestealers or Trygon-borne Hormagaunts are basically a non-problem, because I can charge them first, and I can decimate them in shooting before they get to charge. One of the keys to beating CQC armies is not to let them charge. If you have a unit that can survive a single round of their combat, be the charger, since it prevents them from charging other, more fragile, and more offensively powerful units. Most melee troops have difficulty with tanks, so they make good chargers.
8-10 Drops is where we are at 2000 points, and 5-7 is where most everybody is at 75PL.
It's over just two activations and, as I said, that's without psychic, aura and strategem buffs. And the 20 attacks back is all together, which is why they're so dangerous: 3 of them can kill two geminae and drop Celestine to 5 wounds without any extra help, when it comes round to my turn I'll be throwing on the buffs to finish the saint off.
Whilst you are right that a good shooting player doesn't let your opponent get into combat with what it wants to get into combat with, I would say it's the mark of a good cqc player to be able to be mobile enough to get the charge off on what you want to get it on. Whether or not I charge you or you deny me is up to the dice gods.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
2017/08/14 10:43:22
Subject: We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
Space Marines (Codex) vs Space Wolves - Space Marine Victory
1500 point game, I mostly took Primaris (intercessors, reivers and hellblasters) with some sternguard and a stormhawk thrown in. Made the mistake of throwing Lysander at Bjorn (mostly to see what he could do) but he had no chance and died the turn after. Didn't matter too much though, the amount of wounds I had to soak the incoming attacks was too much for him and the Wolves were slowly ground down. Fantastic fight though!
2017/08/14 10:51:55
Subject: Re:We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
Tau vs deathguard W deathguard
Tau vs Astra militarum W astra militarum
Tau vs mechanicus W mechanicus
Space marines vs death guard W space marines
Space marines vs death guard W space marines
Space marines vs space wolves W space marines
Using space marine codex.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/14 10:54:06
Do I have something in my teeth?
2017/08/14 12:57:27
Subject: We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
(Only non-officio models in these lists were HQ units.)
Officio Assassinorum vs Space Marines Win Assassins
Officio Assassinorum vs Space Wolves Win Assassins
Officio Assassinorum vs Chaos Marines Win Assassins
Officio Assassinorum vs Grey Knights(w/ IK) Win Assassins
2017/08/14 13:50:16
Subject: We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
8th is clearly their edition. I look forward to the codex coming out and ruining Acts of Faith for us.
Yeah i'm waiting for the other foot to drop myself...
I'd really like to fight a Sororita list (don't know anyone around here who uses them unfortunetly), I don't understand how they can be so powerful considering how squishy their units are. :/
They're pretty cheap for that 3+/6++. You get a LOT dudettes for the points.
Do you have a 2000pt list you could present? Just want to see how it compares to my and other 2000pt lists I've seen in terms of body count.
Last list I used was something like
Canonness
Celestine + 2 Gemini
10 SoBs, storm bolter, basic superior
10 SoBs, storm bolter, basic superior
10 SoBs, storm bolter, basic superior
9xRepentia, rhino
Sister Of Repentance
Imagifier
Imagifier
6x Dominions, 4 meltas, Immolator w/flamers
Exorcist
Exorcist
8 Retributors, 4 heavy bolters
Thats about 1500pts. I converted up some Death Cult Assassins, Crusaders and Acroflagellants over the week and was dithering between jamming some of them into some Immolators in addition to a small unit of Seraphim and a Evicerator Canonness or trying out a small detachment of Grey Knights. I ended up going with Grey Knights. I made a thread about how well that worked out...
Honestly, I like blobs of basic Sisters. They're good objective holders because they're hard to shift if you get them behind a wall or something. I should note that my group isn't competitive and I mainly play against Tau and IG. We play to win but at the same time we just take what we like. Saying that, I'm unbeaten with my Sisters so far.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/14 13:52:19
2017/08/14 13:53:37
Subject: We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
Came in third, if only i had 1 more point, i would have probably tied for second, because my major defeat was *almost* a minor defeat, and was at the hands of the tournament winner (undefeated).
Grey Knights vs Chaos Space Marines - Grey Knights; Major Victory Grey Knights vs Genestealer Cult - Grey Knights; Major Victory Grey Knights vs Officio Assassinorum; Major Defeat
I will throw out there that the character targeting rules seem a bit wonky. If you're closer to something locked in combat, than a character, guess what, you can't shoot at the character, even though there's no legal target closer to you, as you can't fire into combat. It's an awful rule that isn't intuitive in the least bit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/14 16:14:54
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
2017/08/14 16:18:00
Subject: We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
mrhappyface wrote: Fair enough for most of your points but on the Zerkers I have to stop you. Zerkers in a Rhino/Drop pod + warptime + icon of wrath can easily get the charge on what you need to get it on. And if you did charge me and left me with 3 left? I'm sorry to tell you that those 3 left are hitting 20 times and would do about 6 damage against you in your turn (without buffs) and would finish you off in my turn. Now if I got the charge? Well then your looking at a total of 82 attacks from the 1 unit (still without buffs).
Nobody should underestimate the fact that these guys will kill you.
As for my meta? Get a lot of lists without transports and a lot of lists that spam cheap units so drops are 10+.
6 isn't enough, I have 7 plus 4 from my 2 geminae, and on your turn, you only get about a third of your attacks before I get to hit, since your attacks are spread over 3 activations. [also, I only count 15 per model with Skarbrand, Chainsword, and World Eaters]
But anyway, melee units that aren't Genestealers or Trygon-borne Hormagaunts are basically a non-problem, because I can charge them first, and I can decimate them in shooting before they get to charge. One of the keys to beating CQC armies is not to let them charge. If you have a unit that can survive a single round of their combat, be the charger, since it prevents them from charging other, more fragile, and more offensively powerful units. Most melee troops have difficulty with tanks, so they make good chargers.
8-10 Drops is where we are at 2000 points, and 5-7 is where most everybody is at 75PL.
It's over just two activations and, as I said, that's without psychic, aura and strategem buffs. And the 20 attacks back is all together, which is why they're so dangerous: 3 of them can kill two geminae and drop Celestine to 5 wounds without any extra help, when it comes round to my turn I'll be throwing on the buffs to finish the saint off.
Whilst you are right that a good shooting player doesn't let your opponent get into combat with what it wants to get into combat with, I would say it's the mark of a good cqc player to be able to be mobile enough to get the charge off on what you want to get it on. Whether or not I charge you or you deny me is up to the dice gods.
Where do the 20 come from? I count 2 base, 1 from Chainsword and 1 from Skarbrand multiplied times 3, [First fight, Berzerker's natural second go, and World Eaters' stratagem for a 3rd go]. Butcher's Nails only kicks in for +1 if you charge. How do you get up to 10 base?
I personally think Terminators are more concerning than Berzerkers. Terminators can deep strike and re-roll charges with the Icon of Wrath, so they're not unlikely to make it in off the deep strike.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2017/08/14 16:18:05
Subject: We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
Came in third, if only i had 1 more point, i would have probably tied for second, because my major defeat was *almost* a minor defeat, and was at the hands of the tournament winner (undefeated).
Grey Knights vs Chaos Space Marines - Grey Knights; Major Victory
Grey Knights vs Genestealer Cult - Grey Knights; Major Victory
Grey Knights vs Officio Assassinorum; Major Defeat
I will throw out there that the character targeting rules seem a bit wonky. If you're closer to something locked in combat, than a character, guess what, you can't shoot at the character, even though there's no legal target closer to you, as you can't fire into combat. It's an awful rule that isn't intuitive in the least bit.
Yeah, character spam is hilarious. My friend brought a gimmick librarian army to fight my 3 baneblades - it was something like 40 librarians vs 3 baneblades. Easy win right?
Well, I am only allowed to target 3 a turn, but they can smite all day.
2017/08/14 16:24:59
Subject: We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
Came in third, if only i had 1 more point, i would have probably tied for second, because my major defeat was *almost* a minor defeat, and was at the hands of the tournament winner (undefeated).
Grey Knights vs Chaos Space Marines - Grey Knights; Major Victory
Grey Knights vs Genestealer Cult - Grey Knights; Major Victory
Grey Knights vs Officio Assassinorum; Major Defeat
I will throw out there that the character targeting rules seem a bit wonky. If you're closer to something locked in combat, than a character, guess what, you can't shoot at the character, even though there's no legal target closer to you, as you can't fire into combat. It's an awful rule that isn't intuitive in the least bit.
Yeah, character spam is hilarious. My friend brought a gimmick librarian army to fight my 3 baneblades - it was something like 40 librarians vs 3 baneblades. Easy win right?
Well, I am only allowed to target 3 a turn, but they can smite all day.
Admittedly, bringing 40 librarians does seem like a natural response 3 Baneblades.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2017/08/14 16:44:57
Subject: We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Where do the 20 come from? I count 2 base, 1 from Chainsword and 1 from Skarbrand multiplied times 3, [First fight, Berzerker's natural second go, and World Eaters' stratagem for a 3rd go]. Butcher's Nails only kicks in for +1 if you charge. How do you get up to 10 base?
I personally think Terminators are more concerning than Berzerkers. Terminators can deep strike and re-roll charges with the Icon of Wrath, so they're not unlikely to make it in off the deep strike.
"And the 20 attacks back is all together", the champion has 3A + Chainsword and the other two have 2A + chainsword which makes 10 from three, then 20 from two rounds of combat which does a total of 6 damage to you in one fight phase.
Terminators will absolutely wreck any multi-wound models but not so great against single wound units.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
2017/08/14 17:26:04
Subject: We've seen the ITC results, but what about Dakkas results so far?
I don't know how these can be tracked but I participated in a team tournament. Results:
Astra Militarum/Eldar vs. Spave Wolves/Deathwatch AM/Eld win
Astra Militarum/Eldar vs. Eldar/Dark Angels Eld/DA win
Astra Militarum/Eldar vs. Eldar/Chaos Marines AM/Eld win
Dark Reapers are scary-tough, especially when they have the 2+ armor save
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Where do the 20 come from? I count 2 base, 1 from Chainsword and 1 from Skarbrand multiplied times 3, [First fight, Berzerker's natural second go, and World Eaters' stratagem for a 3rd go]. Butcher's Nails only kicks in for +1 if you charge. How do you get up to 10 base?
I personally think Terminators are more concerning than Berzerkers. Terminators can deep strike and re-roll charges with the Icon of Wrath, so they're not unlikely to make it in off the deep strike.
"And the 20 attacks back is all together", the champion has 3A + Chainsword and the other two have 2A + chainsword which makes 10 from three, then 20 from two rounds of combat which does a total of 6 damage to you in one fight phase.
Terminators will absolutely wreck any multi-wound models but not so great against single wound units.
20 attacks from the whole unit isn't scary at all. Buffed, 'zerkers get 15 attacks per model on the charge, 12 when receiving the charge. Hence why charging the berzerkers takes away so much of their power. If I charge, not only are their initial casualties factored in before they get to hit me, taking away 12 attacks per model killed, but they also outright lose 30 attacks off the entire squad. Their lethality absolutely plummets. In addition, because they take 3 activations, they only get 4 per model on an CP Interrupt, and only get 4 per model on their turn before I get to hit. If you don't have Skarbrand, you lose another 3 attacks per model.
Without Skarbrand, I kill 6, you strike back with 4 for 39 attacks for 3 wounds [after accounting for DttFE], killing a Gemini and wounding the other. On your turn, you hit with 12, killing my other Gemini, and then I kill 4 with Celestine, resulting in squad wiped. If you're not morale-proof, you also lose about 1-2 on average from battleshock, further reducing your output on your turn.
With Skarbrand nearby, I kill 7, Your remaining 3, however, still get 3 wounds in, achieving the same effect. If you're using Chainaxes for 2 attacks and Chainswords for 2 attacks, this increases to 4. Skarbrand makes you morale proof, and then you hit on your turn to stick a wound on me before I wipe you out.
Skarbrand himself, in the fight, can turn the tide, because he's big and scary, but he can fight Celestine on his own without help from Berzerkers. But he's also big, and I'd be a dunce not to blow him up on turn 1, because he's too big to summon, too big to hide, and too big to ride a transport, and not tough enough to survive a stack of Meltaguns.
I've seen the World Eaters in action, and they're definitely a force to be reckoned with, but the do lose a lot of you get the charge, and it starts to fall apart if Skarbrand dies. So don't be the one to take the World Eaters' charge, charge them first, it take a lot away from them. Another thing to keep in mind is the option to charge depleted 'zerker squads with tanks. It takes about 100 Chainaxe attacks, or 160 Chainsword attacks, to wreck a tank, and a full squad of Berzerkers outputs 123 attacks when it receives the charge, so if you take out a few of them, an expendable tank can safely go into battle with them and tie them up, preventing them from charging units that are fragile and have real firepower, like Dominions, until the enemy turn. Skarbrand makes this dangerous, though, since the tank must be perfectly calibrated to die during the World Eaters' turn so the Berzerkers can be shot and obliterated.
However, when someone says "melee" I think "Genestealers". Genestealers put Berzerkers to shame, and require no external buffs from something big and vulnerable like Skarbrand to perform. 20 'stealers outputs 4 attacks per model at AP-1, and for 2 points less per model than Berzerkers they naturally get deep-strike and re-rolls on the charge, to ensure that they'll make it in and make it in at full strength, and they'll always be the ones charging. Getting charged really hurts Berzerkers ability, but because Genestealers start in Cult Ambush, they don't have the deal with that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/14 17:39:58
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
: 4500pts
