Not surprised that this happened but I do wish that they were not unique, maybe only allow one of them in an army but it would be nice to be able to give them artifacts.
So has anyone uncovered any other important nuggets from the FAQ drop yesterday?
All printed on my Ender 3. I had just started repainting my Orruk Ironjawz and decided to keep the Kruleboyz half of Dominion and assembled some. This was an older photo of the Rock.
They were already pretty darn good in aos3 with it's he who criples other first wins scenarios. Durable battleline that refuses to die and which hits hard is aos3 in nutshell
Plus you've got Naggy, now with his 3+ 6+ 5+ against normal wounds and 4+ 6+ 5+ against mortals. Not counting all his potential healing. Makes me sad I flogged mind prior to 3 dropping.
Found another one: They updated the Exalted Greater Daemon of Tzeentch, specifying that it can be summoned for 45 Fate points, but didn't delete the line in the Disciples of Tzeentch FAQ that says you can't summon an Exalted Greater Daemon.
Can someone clarify this - I find AoS magic and wizard rules really odd coming from old fantasy and 40k background.
Page 84 – Spell Lores
Delete the sentence that reads:
‘In addition, you can choose or roll for 1 spell from one of the
following tables for each Wizard in a Soulblight Gravelords army.’
Does that mean that in AoS 3.0, a Vampire Lord knows Arcane Bolt, Mystic Shield (and everyone in the army knows Invigorating Aura) - but he doesn't actually know any of the spells from the Lore of Vampires unless you take the Spell Lores army enhancement?
Cryptek of Awesome wrote: Can someone clarify this - I find AoS magic and wizard rules really odd coming from old fantasy and 40k background.
Page 84 – Spell Lores
Delete the sentence that reads:
‘In addition, you can choose or roll for 1 spell from one of the
following tables for each Wizard in a Soulblight Gravelords army.’
Does that mean that in AoS 3.0, a Vampire Lord knows Arcane Bolt, Mystic Shield (and everyone in the army knows Invigorating Aura) - but he doesn't actually know any of the spells from the Lore of Vampires unless you take the Spell Lores army enhancement?
The functionality is the same, they are just updating wording to make it consistent.
It seems redundant but as seen by ward-stacking the results of not updating old wording can be... interesting.
With Battletomes delayed, can anyone tell me if have notice a Rumour Engine with something Chaosy yet? if Chaos will get the third BT, it would be a real shame that they will get 0 models alongside them.
Also, kinda tired of seeing the SC! StD models exclusive to them and not having any idea if they will stay there forever or if they will revamp the Warriors and Knights kits for AoS with proper, new multipart minis (I mean at least the TOW Knights are still excellent, but I would like to know what they will do with them).
CMLR wrote: With Battletomes delayed, can anyone tell me if have notice a Rumour Engine with something Chaosy yet? if Chaos will get the third BT, it would be a real shame that they will get 0 models alongside them.
Also, kinda tired of seeing the SC! StD models exclusive to them and not having any idea if they will stay there forever or if they will revamp the Warriors and Knights kits for AoS with proper, new multipart minis (I mean at least the TOW Knights are still excellent, but I would like to know what they will do with them).
Only two I can think of are the net one (people say it looks like a Net gladiators would use/Khorne) and one I think might be a herdstone (BOC).
CMLR wrote: With Battletomes delayed, can anyone tell me if have notice a Rumour Engine with something Chaosy yet? if Chaos will get the third BT, it would be a real shame that they will get 0 models alongside them.
Also, kinda tired of seeing the SC! StD models exclusive to them and not having any idea if they will stay there forever or if they will revamp the Warriors and Knights kits for AoS with proper, new multipart minis (I mean at least the TOW Knights are still excellent, but I would like to know what they will do with them).
Only two I can think of are the net one (people say it looks like a Net gladiators would use/Khorne) and one I think might be a herdstone (BOC).
So it seems the new not-liberators have better save than the other battleline, previous iterations still stuck with the 4+. Let's hope their special abilities make up for it, or the liberators will be again cheap core filler.
That is a BIG boost for Brutes, especially their Jagged Gore Hackas, which have usually been quite limited in the past compared to the double choppas option. Having rend -2 finally makes them feel like the elite unit they should be, I'm hoping their pricing remains competitive compared to Ardboyz.
Cronch wrote: So it seems the new not-liberators have better save than the other battleline, previous iterations still stuck with the 4+. Let's hope their special abilities make up for it, or the liberators will be again cheap core filler.
Sequitors are a bit of a special case because of how their rules work. Right now the shields don't provide a passive effect; each combat phase the unit can either channel to their shields or their weapons. Weapons gives RRs to hit, shields give a 5+ ward.
Other SCE units with shields have a passive 'reduce incoming rend by 1' ability and it is that I would expect to see baked into a 3+ save characteristic in the future. However I do not mean to dismiss what you are saying here; you could still very much be correct in your assumption.
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CMLR wrote: I really feel dumb reading this new pages. I feel them too complicated.
More new FAQs, Sylvaneth, Core, and GHB. Sylvaneth removed the line about deleting the Navigate rule and using the Wyldwood’s instead so teleports are back on the menu. Core looks to have backtracked on its Ward stuff and it’s back to only one.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Man, I appreciate the magenta to show off new stuff, but they could really use something to show a rule that was there previous that you are to now disregard. Trying to figure out what was deleted is annoying.
Credit where credit is due, I appreciate GW stepping in to fix this relatively quickly. While their process has room for improvement, this is indeed improvement.
Like the fixing of stacking wards, cogs getting nerfed(I had to avoid that spell because would have felt dirty using it) and pile in changed so that if you are equ distance to 2 units you can just choose one. While niche case I even as lumineth player I felt dirty about neutering any melee hero without 2" reach with 2 flying foxes so that you HAVE to a) fall back b) hope you get double turn or you will never ever land a blow.
Thought i'd transcribe the rules for Bastian Carthalos since the warscroll card preview was nice enough to show them off. He's pretty badass it seems.
So he has 6" movement, 8 wounds, 10 bravery and a 3+ save. His weapon is Uskavar the Sunderer, which has 4 attacks, hits on 3+s, wounds on 2+s, has -2 rend and does a huge 4 damage per attack!
His rules are the following:
The Thunderborn
Once per turn you may choose one enemy unit on the battlefield and roll a number of dice equal to its wound characteristic. For each 6, that unit suffers 1 mortal wound.
Castellan of Azyr
At the start of the first battle round, after determining who has the first turn but before the first turn begins, you can select up to D3 friendly HAMMERS OF SIGMAR units and redeploy them, any restrictions from the battleplan still apply.
Vessel of the Tempest
This unit has a ward of 4+
Voice of Thunder
Once per turn this unit can issue a command to a HAMMERS OF SIGMAR unit without a command point being spent.
Mantle of the First Storm
At the end of a phase if any enemy models were destroyed by wounds caused by this unit's attacks in that phase, you can heal all wounds allocated to this unit.
It's a tricky thing as recombining makes armies "bigger" and more diverse without any work from GW; it also brings back some old fans who have old armies and want to see some of their old forces work once again in the new setting.
At the same time they've got a whole host of new fans who sort of don't want that. Eg myself I know that Dark Elves as an army are basically all there, they lost perhaps one or two leader models, but by and large the army is complete in AoS.
Yet I got in because of Daughters of Khaine and I'd not want to see that army "lost" or diluted into a greater Aelf force. Yes there'd be lots of cool new models to use, but at the same time they lose some of their identity if that were to happen.
Overread wrote: It's a tricky thing as recombining makes armies "bigger" and more diverse without any work from GW; it also brings back some old fans who have old armies and want to see some of their old forces work once again in the new setting.
Imagine how awesome it would be to bring Gobbos into the book too! A huge crazy O&G army.
Yet I got in because of Daughters of Khaine and I'd not want to see that army "lost" or diluted into a greater Aelf force. Yes there'd be lots of cool new models to use, but at the same time they lose some of their identity if that were to happen.
Understandable, as in another loose example I was sad to know that Dragon Princes weren't their own faction but tacked onto the Stormcasts. Thankfully I'll be getting that battletome anyway so I guess it saves me having to purchase two tomes instead. But even still, a faction of Dragons is damn cool and the Stormcasts are kinda cramping their style!
Overread wrote: It's a tricky thing as recombining makes armies "bigger" and more diverse without any work from GW; it also brings back some old fans who have old armies and want to see some of their old forces work once again in the new setting.
Imagine how awesome it would be to bring Gobbos into the book too! A huge crazy O&G army.
Nah, gitz have got their own personality now outside of the orcs. No need to dump them back under them again
Overread wrote: It's a tricky thing as recombining makes armies "bigger" and more diverse without any work from GW; it also brings back some old fans who have old armies and want to see some of their old forces work once again in the new setting.
At the same time they've got a whole host of new fans who sort of don't want that. Eg myself I know that Dark Elves as an army are basically all there, they lost perhaps one or two leader models, but by and large the army is complete in AoS.
Yet I got in because of Daughters of Khaine and I'd not want to see that army "lost" or diluted into a greater Aelf force. Yes there'd be lots of cool new models to use, but at the same time they lose some of their identity if that were to happen.
Otoh if you specialize you get bonuses you miss out on going big waagh
At least this way you don"t lose every faction thing for 2nd group like you would with allies.
Yes finally a new stormcast book. Really has cramped my enthusiasm at the start of 3rd by the long delay for the book but I'm going to get back on the paint train soon for the book release.
Hm. Bastian is unkillable in a practical sense for most armies, but for being lord commander I expected him to be more command-ey. His main thing seems to be tanking. Maybe there will be some additional rules interaction from the 'tome.
Price list GBP confirmed others based on current GW rates
Battletomes £30 (€37.50 $50) up £5/€5 not sure on the US price being up $10 but these are the same prices for the Kill team compendium which was only just released.
Beastskewer Killbow £21 (€25 $35)
Knight Judicator £21 (€25 $35)
SCE Chariot £29 (€35 $45)
Mirebrute Troggoth £31.50 (€40 $50)
Dice sets £20
Orruk WC Warscrolls £20
SCE Warscrolls £22.50
DaveC wrote: Price list GBP confirmed others based on current GW rates
Battletomes £30 (€37.50 $50) up £5/€5 not sure on the US price being up $10 but these are the same prices for the Kill team compendium which was only just released.
It's probably because there's digital codes in them now.
Overread wrote: Chariot is perhaps a touch cheaper than I'd have thought based on GW's current prices.
Are these easy build kits like the immediate Marine and Necron reinforcements? Would serve as an explanation.
Or it's a case of GW future proofing the Chaos and Dark Elves chariots (the last new chariots I can think of) and want to keep that level for chariots for a while. Witch Elves were obscenely priced at release, but other kits have caught up to that level by now. For all we like to complain about price hikes (and not without cause either), GW seems to work with fairly long lasting price levels for comparable things that they introduce as something that is seen as a price hike for a few specific kits, and then adjust everything else gradually to that price level. So they may still think that 35€ is the right price for chariots even though that's been in effect for eight years now and Sigmarines just got lucky to get theirs before the next increase.
Not as bad as expected on the Kruleboyz pricing, odd given past performance that the Mirebrute appears to not be a dual kit. At this point I am wondering if there are any options at all.
Interesting that these are dropping Saturday when most expected the 2nd week of 40k Orks. That begs the question do we get more AOS the week after or is it 40k?
Sotahullu wrote: These are ETB kits similar to what Marines and Necrons got after the starter set(s).
Although couple of those did come with some options.
Do you mind citing a source on that?
My memory is gak and needs replacing apparently.
Okay, I could swear that in the original article way back when Dominion box review stream but I thought it was written that "these kits are similar to what was relased after indomitus" but there is no such thing.
Sotahullu wrote: These are ETB kits similar to what Marines and Necrons got after the starter set(s).
Although couple of those did come with some options.
Do you mind citing a source on that?
My memory is gak and needs replacing apparently.
Okay, I could swear that in the original article way back when Dominion box review stream but I thought it was written that "these kits are similar to what was relased after indomitus" but there is no such thing.
That article has probably been modified repeatedly since then for a multitude of reasons!
Okay, I could swear that in the original article way back when Dominion box review stream but I thought it was written that "these kits are similar to what was relased after indomitus" but there is no such thing.
That's fine, I thought it was something that popped up on FB or something!
I do recall them using similar language, but it was more on the lines of "these are intended to build out the box".
I don't see the modern ETB kits as different from normal ones. I guess I need to spend a few seconds clipping off each peg. Options may not be present on full kits anyways.
At any rate, I'm cool with identical posting on the steeds (especially if the poses look that good) but a little disappointed the riders seem to be mono pose. But I would still prefer a good mono to a multi pose where all the options look stiff.
Prices are... well they are high but so is the miniature quality. I'd even call them reasonable. Won't judge the 'tomes until I can read the content.
Surprised the spear is an alternate piece for the bowman, it would have been super easy to make a hand w/spear to swap for the axe.
I'll definitely pick up a chariot, but I'm not sure I'd get more than one given how monopose it looks. Maybe wait to see if other people come up with some conversion ideas.
I think that's a pretty big stretch, considering the ONLY warscrolls in the entire Legion of the First Prince army to have Slaves to Darkness keyword are Be'lakor, Soul Grinder, Furies, and Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount.
Would be weird, but not impossible, to include it in a battletome that it has almost nothing in common with.
It could be as simple as BoC getting a rename. Or because BoC were always around, rather than being one of the factions that cropped up at the end of the Age of Myth.
I think that's a pretty big stretch, considering the ONLY warscrolls in the entire Legion of the First Prince army to have Slaves to Darkness keyword are Be'lakor, Soul Grinder, Furies, and Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount.
Would be weird, but not impossible, to include it in a battletome that it has almost nothing in common with.
I know Mega-Gargants have a handful of warscrolls, but that's not the point of the Legion, more when its battlelines are shared with another four factions.
This will be the....5th time? buying back into stormcasts lol. Either the game was just boring, the army was too OP, or the aesthetics bugged me enough to sell them. I really really like the greatsword infantry and the big hammer bois. And Bastian is awesome looking. Solid range update all around.
Seems like they tightened up the rules even further from 2nd edition. Curious to give it a try.
I think it has more a link to the background than anything else, since Beasts of Chaos in AoS aren't actually following the dark gods in general and those who do are usually despised by their own kind as "not being true beasts". Can see the "marked" beasts of chaos being included in the list of factions.
The "ancient evil" in the Quest is clearly talking about the pantheon of Chaos. Most of the beast tribes don't actually follow them in AoS.
Sarouan wrote: I think it has more a link to the background than anything else, since Beasts of Chaos in AoS aren't actually following the dark gods in general and those who do are usually despised by their own kind as "not being true beasts". Can see the "marked" beasts of chaos being included in the list of factions.
The "ancient evil" in the Quest is clearly talking about the pantheon of Chaos. Most of the beast tribes don't actually follow them in AoS.
that'd be my guess for the reasoning, assuming that GW didn't just forget them, regarding bel'akor and co, I think it's worth noting Bel'akor's force is NOT listed as a chaos army in the 3.0 core rulebook, so chances are it's going to be part of STD 3.0
the quest rules are part of the narrative PTG rules so house ruling one way or another loclly isn't going to be a big issue
This preview does a great job highlighting what I love about Warhammer. The rules are a bit outside what one would really consider balanced thanks to how inconsistent they are, but that itself feeds into the narrative theme so well. The concept of a cruel overseer wounding a troll to motivate it, knowing the troll can regenerate, is a great cinematic image. And one that fits perfectly within the army. A massive ballista meant for killing monsters doing (a random amount of) extra damage based on the enemy's wounds characteristic is much along the same lines. And the rules look fun.
I also hope the concept of having a sensible amount of crew models on war machines continues, my immersion gets really stretched by three skaven pushing around an entire WLC. And here it is extra good since it lets grots fill out the role they play in orc society on the battlefield while still letting players just utilize orc units.
Glad to see counterplay to ward saves getting more support. Gotrek will not be happy!
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CMLR wrote: Killbow is a lot less threatening than I already expected.
In the shooty sub-faction it is; 27" range hitting on a rerollable 2+. That is where I have an issue; the model is obviously worth a fair bit more points inside that subfaction. So it will be OP there or UP everywhere else.
CMLR wrote: Killbow is a lot less threatening than I already expected.
In the shooty sub-faction it is; 27" range hitting on a rerollable 2+. That is where I have an issue; the model is obviously worth a fair bit more points inside that subfaction. So it will be OP there or UP everywhere else.
That reroll aptitude only works the first battle round. It won't be enough to be OP.
tneva82 wrote: It's got good ogor charge and lots of rend. Melee is where strength is over couple pot shots. Can be nasty model depending on cost.
There are no ogors on this release.
Tneva82 is referring the the ability ogors have where on the charge they roll a number of d6 equal to the charge roll, and for each 4+(monsters) or 6+(non monsters) they do a mortal wound.
tneva82 wrote: It's got good ogor charge and lots of rend. Melee is where strength is over couple pot shots. Can be nasty model depending on cost.
so you figure spear is proably best?
That's what I'm thinking. Even if this thing was, let's say, 80 points, it wouldn't be worth sacrificing the extra close combat damage for the sake of dealing a single weak ranged hit each turn.
That other guy, though? That's a good (but probably expensive) harassing unit. I especially like his GDI Ion Cannon ability
I am SO HAPPY to see SCE getting the hit/wound/rend profiles they deserve! No more of the piddly mortal-level 4+/3+/rend - profiles! It is something I have wanted to see from the very start, just really glad to see it happen.
Chariot doesn't have any fancy abilities and IMO? Good! It doesn't need anything crazy, a case where less is more. Between its solid stat block and significant MW output on the charge it fills & creates a tactical niche which is really going to reward proper positioning & targeting. Shame the bow is kinda a non-option but it is what it is.
Knight-Judicator seems like a pretty big overlap with Venator, will have to see how that is managed. Maybe an eventual replacement? SCE could certainly use less warscrolls and I know the looks-cool-but-stabs-everything-nearby wings aren't popular due to their impracticality.
I am not mad at it if it means they are a bit cheaper, and they are lower priced than most people expected. Some of the sprues do look oddly sparse though given how crammed the majority of modern GW ones are.
Knight-Judicator seems like a pretty big overlap with Venator, will have to see how that is managed. Maybe an eventual replacement? SCE could certainly use less warscrolls and I know the looks-cool-but-stabs-everything-nearby wings aren't popular due to their impracticality.
Also because y'know...once per game abilities aren't a great thing.
Honestly, I think all the Harbinger Chamber(angels) are likely to get a significant refocus. That whole first year or two of SCE releases was just a mess conceptually.
Knight-Judicator seems like a pretty big overlap with Venator, will have to see how that is managed. Maybe an eventual replacement? SCE could certainly use less warscrolls and I know the looks-cool-but-stabs-everything-nearby wings aren't popular due to their impracticality.
Also because y'know...once per game abilities aren't a great thing.
Honestly, I think all the Harbinger Chamber(angels) are likely to get a significant refocus. That whole first year or two of SCE releases was just a mess conceptually.
They were pretty consistent with the concepts, and it isn't even that the wings are bad. To the contrary; they look amazing. But they are just so dam impractical to actually play with.
This is an opinion based on narrowing down the sample evidence to a small enough window that it doesn't seem nonsensical. It could still very much be correct, but current the body of evidence does not at all support the assertion.
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CMLR wrote: Again what I noticed is the lack of free warscrolls.
Yeah. An unfortunate shift and AoS is worse for it. The warscrolls will still be available for free online, GW just lost out on providing them.
Again what I noticed is the lack of free warscrolls.
Don't worry I'm sure they'll be available """FOR FREE!!!!""" if you subscribe to Warhammer+(tm) full of awesome content, new shows every week and a """FFRREEEEE!!!!!""" miniature of your choosing! Subscribe now!
Again what I noticed is the lack of free warscrolls.
Don't worry I'm sure they'll be available """FOR FREE!!!!""" if you subscribe to Warhammer+(tm) full of awesome content, new shows every week and a """FFRREEEEE!!!!!""" miniature of your choosing! Subscribe now!
I enjoy the sarcastic yet entirely accurate and acceptable rant content. Although they won't be free in the app, they'll be tied to the code in the book ala 40k I'd guess.
I mean sure a multimillion company needed to change the full premise of AoS which was free 3 page rules, use what you want and free warscrolls and try to turn it into the mess of expensive books and rules...
A pass for me on all updates and rules for 40k and same with AoS apparently. Covid and this GW shift to shorter and shorter editions and gatekeeping the rules, errata etc etc makes it easy pass.
The books alone are way too expensive if you have multiple factions and you have to replace them for more expensive updated ones in a couple years...
kodos wrote: We know for sure after to Armybook is out, but for now it looks like AoS is popular enough so that GW don't need to push it with free stuff any more
I mean, we already know, don't we? The warscrolls aren't missing by accident and GW has already announced that the Age of Sigmar app will work similarly to the 40k one.
I want to say this was inevitable, but it's still not great to see when it actually happens.
NAVARRO wrote: Funny that, how much AoS has changed hey?
I mean sure a multimillion company needed to change the full premise of AoS which was free 3 page rules, use what you want and free warscrolls and try to turn it into the mess of expensive books and rules...
A pass for me on all updates and rules for 40k and same with AoS apparently. Covid and this GW shift to shorter and shorter editions and gatekeeping the rules, errata etc etc makes it easy pass.
The books alone are way too expensive if you have multiple factions and you have to replace them for more expensive updated ones in a couple years...
Four pages, actually. And twelve pages of annotations because it turns out you can't write a rule set like that in four pages. But four pages sure sounded good to the marketing guys.
Not sure what you mean by gatekeeping the rules, but I find that the shorter lifespan of an army book is made worse by splitting off extra stuff in DLC-like fashion. You'd think that if you're going to buy a new army book every three years, and in a few cases less than that, you don't need any more stuff in between that may or may not be repeated in the next army book. This is why I haven't bought any GW rules in years aside from those that came in starter boxes and the like that I bought for the models. Horrific business model, as far as I'm concerned.
Definitely agreed on the upkeep for multiple factions. It's been a problem for me for many years and the free warscrolls provided for AoS have been somewhat of a reprieve until now. It's not even about what I can afford so much as what I want to afford, considering GW's approach to rules these days and how much they're asking for them.
From Ash at GMG's review the Kruleboyz models from Dominion have almost universally gotten points reductions from the set.
Best of all seems the Sloggoth...150pts on a non degrading profile with a +1 melee to hit roll in an 18 inch (entirely within) bubble for all friendly models. Ash seemed very eager to have one for his Ogres.
Nah, around 4 of these style of push fit kits have come with each new edition since Dark Imperium.
In ye old days they would be called Easy to Build and would be substantially cheaper. Now they are just slighly cheaper but is better than 40k Outriders or Necron Destroyers that cost the same as a normal unit and are easy to build (Even if calling ETB to Indomitus Necrons is a crime because feth those necrons)
CMLR wrote: None of them have their warscrolls on .pdf.
Noo, people told me just because Dominion didn't have them doesn't mean GW will push it's paid app over free PDFs!
Who could've guessed they'll strip that away once their premium service launches!
As for prices, the chariot is the same price as idoneth shark, which seems fair.
kodos wrote: We know for sure after to Armybook is out, but for now it looks like AoS is popular enough so that GW don't need to push it with free stuff any more
I mean, we already know, don't we? The warscrolls aren't missing by accident and GW has already announced that the Age of Sigmar app will work similarly to the 40k one.
kind of, some people knew it right from the point it happened with 40k that AoS will follow (they won't maintain 2 different system and using a new system for 40k instead of the working one from AoS meant that AoS will follow the less free stuff 40k way), while there is still the "wait and see" crowed around
CMLR wrote: None of them have their warscrolls on .pdf.
Noo, people told me just because Dominion didn't have them doesn't mean GW will push it's paid app over free PDFs!
Who could've guessed they'll strip that away once their premium service launches!
As for prices, the chariot is the same price as idoneth shark, which seems fair.
Idoneth shark is not EtB push-fit, and I mean, those types of kits were, at least historically, quite cheap compared to regular ones for what they were. The EtB Stormcast Ballista comes with two crew members and costs less than a single Lord Ordinator, or the Lumineth Ballista, for example. Reiknor is also EtB, and he costs around the same as a Primaris Captain - and he's like, a quite decently-sized model, with a scenic base and huge wings.
Reading some of the leaks and stuff people are posting on Facebook and man, they Nerfed the Ironjawz Allegiance Abilities quite hard. They lost the +1 to Charges, the d6 move if they take damage in a phase, their Waaagh no longer gives +1 attack to models, and their command ability no longer lets you fight twice. It’s Harsh.
Clearly they wanted to make ardboyz the defensive chaff of Ironjawz but the offensive output of old black orcs is a little... I'm just sad of watching my favourite unit of old treated like that.
I wouldn't be agaisnt all the greenskins nerfs if it was the first of a series of more tame battletomes. But I have enough experience with AoS to know that bonkers broken stuff is gonna come out anyway, so they'll get stuck with lackluster warscrolls and rules.
AduroT wrote: Reading some of the leaks and stuff people are posting on Facebook and man, they Nerfed the Ironjawz Allegiance Abilities quite hard. They lost the +1 to Charges, the d6 move if they take damage in a phase, their Waaagh no longer gives +1 attack to models, and their command ability no longer lets you fight twice. It’s Harsh.
. The megaboss on foot lets you give a command ability to two units at once (two units get to use mighty destroyers at once) and the brutes have a rule that means nearby one wound models can't capture objectives if they are nearby. That's a pretty amazing ability.
Overall I think the Ironjawz got a pretty decent buff.
It's the bonesplittas that lost out.
Clearly they wanted to make ardboyz the defensive chaff of Ironjawz but the offensive output of old black orcs is a little... I'm just sad of watching my favourite unit of old treated like that.
I wouldn't be agaisnt all the greenskins nerfs if it was the first of a series of more tame battletomes. But I have enough experience with AoS to know that bonkers broken stuff is gonna come out anyway, so they'll get stuck with lackluster warscrolls and rules.
Oof. +1 attack, but -1 to hit and 1 worse Rend. No more penalty to opponent’s bravery, -1 to their own bravery buff, and -1 to their charge buff. +2 to bringing back dead dudes is nice, but you can’t use that within 3” of the enemy and I’ve found I seldom get to use it much.
Chikout wrote:
AduroT wrote: Reading some of the leaks and stuff people are posting on Facebook and man, they Nerfed the Ironjawz Allegiance Abilities quite hard. They lost the +1 to Charges, the d6 move if they take damage in a phase, their Waaagh no longer gives +1 attack to models, and their command ability no longer lets you fight twice. It’s Harsh.
. The megaboss on foot lets you give a command ability to two units at once (two units get to use mighty destroyers at once) and the brutes have a rule that means nearby one wound models can't capture objectives if they are nearby. That's a pretty amazing ability.
Overall I think the Ironjawz got a pretty decent buff.
It's the bonesplittas that lost out.
The Brute thing is nice, and two for one Command Abilities is ok, but Mighty Destroyers took a big hit not being able to fight twice with it. From the stuff people are posting the Nerfs are FAR outweighing the buffs.
AduroT wrote: Reading some of the leaks and stuff people are posting on Facebook and man, they Nerfed the Ironjawz Allegiance Abilities quite hard. They lost the +1 to Charges, the d6 move if they take damage in a phase, their Waaagh no longer gives +1 attack to models, and their command ability no longer lets you fight twice. It’s Harsh.
According to Goonhammer, Ironjawz are actually pretty good.
A minute of silence for those Bonesplittaz victims...
Getting effective confirmation that GW is taking the same head-in-the-sand-pretend-the-internet-doesn't-exist approach rules content in AOS that it has in 40k makes this a pretty sad day. It's 2021 and they're actually reducing digital rules access, which is just mind-bogglingly shortsighted and greedy.
Guess the people who said that AOS only ever had free scrolls online because it was a new game are right. GW gotta raise margins to 44% to keep that stock price rising, 43% margins aren't enough!
If you think that thing is going to keep the +1 to hit for all friendly models you're going to be in for a disappointment when the first FAQ comes out. At best it'll be all orruks; if you're unlucky, it'll be only KB.
Can’t be That greedy if they don’t want my money anymore. Just like I do for 40k, I’ll keep getting my codex PDFs online, I just can’t pay GW for them anymore.
CMLR wrote: Again what I noticed is the lack of free warscrolls.
Yeah. An unfortunate shift and AoS is worse for it. The warscrolls will still be available for free online, GW just lost out on providing them.
Unfortunate indeed. I played games and bought models because the warscrolls were available for free.
But guys! They have a Facebook page. GW have changed!
Well they did change; warscrolls were available for free for 6 years after all and core rules still are. It just isn't a binary where they are either good or bad; they make a lot of decisions and the cumulative weight of them adds up to the company moving in a positive direction or negative one, and that direction can change. Right now it isn't going in a good direction but that doesn't mean it never did.
By all means we should criticize bad decisions, but let's also not forget that this situation is still way, waaaaaaaay better than late-stage Kirby era. Simply boiling things down to 'GW hasn't changed' is to say 'late stage Kirby policies were not any worse than what we have now' and I seriously doubt that is a viewpoint anyone is actually trying to express.
CMLR wrote: None of them have their warscrolls on .pdf.
Noo, people told me just because Dominion didn't have them doesn't mean GW will push it's paid app over free PDFs!
Who the heck told you that? It was pretty dam obvious what was happening.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AduroT wrote: Can’t be That greedy if they don’t want my money anymore. Just like I do for 40k, I’ll keep getting my codex PDFs online, I just can’t pay GW for them anymore.
By all means we should criticize bad decisions, but let's also not forget that this situation is still way, waaaaaaaay better than late-stage Kirby era. Simply boiling things down to 'GW hasn't changed' is to say 'late stage Kirby policies were not any worse than what we have now' and I seriously doubt that is a viewpoint anyone is actually trying to express.
Is this really true any more, though? I mean clearly GW went through a period where it was more customer-friendly. But can we still say this is the case now, in September 2021? They've discontinued digital rules. They've discontinued free warscrolls. They discontinued the working AOS app and haven't replaced it with anything, and the 40k version is a mess. They've started a new round of IP enforcement by cracking down on animations in order to bring them in house and charge people money for what used to be free - not as widespread an IP crackdown as some feared (yet), but a new round nonetheless. They've been releasing embarrassingly broken products that need FAQs to FAQs to FAQs that keep messing stuff up over and over again. Start Collecting sets (at least in 40k) are being phased out in favor of more expensive starter sets with lower % discounts.
In what way is this company friendlier now than it was under Kirby? Genuine question, maybe I'm forgetting some stuff. But it feels like GW in September 2021 is very like GW under Kirby. I guess maybe the one thing you could say is they fix their errors faster than they used to, sometimes - see the FAQ to the FAQ to the FAQ.
By all means we should criticize bad decisions, but let's also not forget that this situation is still way, waaaaaaaay better than late-stage Kirby era. Simply boiling things down to 'GW hasn't changed' is to say 'late stage Kirby policies were not any worse than what we have now' and I seriously doubt that is a viewpoint anyone is actually trying to express.
Is this really true any more, though? I mean clearly GW went through a period where it was more customer-friendly. But can we still say this is the case now, in September 2021? They've discontinued digital rules. They've discontinued free warscrolls. They discontinued the working AOS app and haven't replaced it with anything, and the 40k version is a mess. They've started a new round of IP enforcement by cracking down on animations in order to bring them in house and charge people money for what used to be free - not as widespread an IP crackdown as some feared (yet), but a new round nonetheless. They've been releasing embarrassingly broken products that need FAQs to FAQs to FAQs that keep messing stuff up over and over again. Start Collecting sets (at least in 40k) are being phased out in favor of more expensive starter sets with lower % discounts.
In what way is this company friendlier now than it was under Kirby? Genuine question, maybe I'm forgetting some stuff. But it feels like GW in September 2021 is very like GW under Kirby. I guess maybe the one thing you could say is they fix their errors faster than they used to, sometimes - see the FAQ to the FAQ to the FAQ.
Some cool models though.
Dont forget discontinued nice starter boxes replaced with similar but limited ed boxes and cursed city BS.
People literally complained about the free warscrolls "not being really free" since you still had to get a book for allegiance abilities and "Open Play isn't really a thing".
Kanluwen wrote: People literally complained about the free warscrolls "not being really free" since you still had to get a book for allegiance abilities and "Open Play isn't really a thing".
Y'all played yourselves.
Being able to look up an opponent’s Warscroll occasionally was nice, but I never really used the free ones for my own stuff for those reasons.
I found it handy for checking basic info on a model, esp for an army I didn't own. Sure for actual gaming purposes you still needed the book and GW already puts the warscrolls in the box; having them free online was just an easy to check resource.
It was nice ,but for me its not a deal-breaker. Heck I think the time I used them the most was when new things were coming out on the store and I'd swing by to see what they were like for my army before I'd end up with a new battletome/update FAQ/errata or such.
By all means we should criticize bad decisions, but let's also not forget that this situation is still way, waaaaaaaay better than late-stage Kirby era. Simply boiling things down to 'GW hasn't changed' is to say 'late stage Kirby policies were not any worse than what we have now' and I seriously doubt that is a viewpoint anyone is actually trying to express.
Is this really true any more, though? I mean clearly GW went through a period where it was more customer-friendly. But can we still say this is the case now, in September 2021? They've discontinued digital rules. They've discontinued free warscrolls. They discontinued the working AOS app and haven't replaced it with anything, and the 40k version is a mess. They've started a new round of IP enforcement by cracking down on animations in order to bring them in house and charge people money for what used to be free - not as widespread an IP crackdown as some feared (yet), but a new round nonetheless. They've been releasing embarrassingly broken products that need FAQs to FAQs to FAQs that keep messing stuff up over and over again. Start Collecting sets (at least in 40k) are being phased out in favor of more expensive starter sets with lower % discounts.
In what way is this company friendlier now than it was under Kirby? Genuine question, maybe I'm forgetting some stuff. But it feels like GW in September 2021 is very like GW under Kirby. I guess maybe the one thing you could say is they fix their errors faster than they used to, sometimes - see the FAQ to the FAQ to the FAQ.
Under Kirby GW didn't communicate with the fanbase at all. they even openly said they didn't do market research, as if that was a point of pride. modern GW seems to be doing a much better job of keeping it's ear to the ground.
So there's that. A lot of their odd changes lately seem to be tied to warhammer plus. I have a hunch there's a lot of internal politics driving decisions here
That bit is true, they definitely pay more attention to social media and general fan sentiment than they used to. But that doesn't strike me as any inherently more or less friendly to the customer. They've spent the last year proving that you can be aware of and interact with your customers on social media while still making decision after decision that are not friendly to those customers.
Cynics said "new GW" was just a social media act - same old company, same old decisions, just wrapped in a more palatable package. GW in the last year seems to be going some way towards proving them right.
Kanluwen wrote: People literally complained about the free warscrolls "not being really free" since you still had to get a book for allegiance abilities and "Open Play isn't really a thing".
Y'all played yourselves.
Clearly this happened because GW listened to players' complaints. Which makes it the only recorded instance of that happening in the entirety of recorded history too.
Seems like based on the recent reviews that Bonesplitterz got really hosed compared to Ironjawz and Kruleboyz, which kinda sucks given that they were already bordering on not being all that great outside of arrer boy spam to begin with.
Bonesplittaz do, indeed, seem to have the smell o' deff around 'em.
Only three plastic kits, one of which is a hero, really looks like they are more here as fanservice.
They clearly wanted to give the ranged role to the new Kruleboyz, and they tought that somehow Tattooz are too OP so they got rid of the monster hunter tools that used to set them apart. I'd argue that they have so little that it is actually okay to give them Warpaint and Tattooz like that.
Wouldn't be surprised to see them axed and send back into TOW.
On the other hand, that might be the chance to give IJ siege rams and catapults.
Kanluwen wrote: People literally complained about the free warscrolls "not being really free" since you still had to get a book for allegiance abilities and "Open Play isn't really a thing".
Y'all played yourselves.
You realize coalition and allies are a thing right? Which have zero use for allegiance abilities(hint: they don't get those).
Kanluwen wrote: People literally complained about the free warscrolls "not being really free" since you still had to get a book for allegiance abilities and "Open Play isn't really a thing".
Y'all played yourselves.
You realize coalition and allies are a thing right? Which have zero use for allegiance abilities(hint: they don't get those).
Free warscrolls were free and usable
I imagine warscrolls will be included in the box with the instructions much like is the case with 40k now. does mean a liiiiiiilte bit of a pain but at least you won't have to buy an entire book to get the warscroll for a single troop of cavalry. but yeah losing free warscrolls sucks as it means you can't research as easily. it's bad for GW too as it means you're not going to go to their website to look at the info. but will go to other places. which means you might be less inclined to say... impulse order said cavalry off their website
The situation is not like it was at the end of the "Kirby Age", but it is similar like it was during the beginning.
The communication with the community is changing as well, with backwards editing of posts to "we have never said that" and "it was always planned that way" in a similar manner as it was back than.
Free stuff is removed again, with the idea that you don't buy models because of the rules
We have seen how this ended, question is just how long it will take this time to reach the breaking point
Unlike last time, there are now competitors offering sci-fi and fantasy hard plastic kits, not to mention 3d printing. So good luck to GW if they want to go all evil empire and alienate everyone again
As a new player who just bought into AoS with the Domion box set, a few etb extras for sce and the generals handbook for points - does this mean the generals handbook is now out of date? There'll be new units in the orruk/sce battletomes with no entry in the general's handbook. I kinda feel that ghb thing was a waste of money - not to mention flicking through the rules with a spiral bound sucks.
Actually I'd say the GHB is well worth owning. The Spiral bound rules is a big thing that people have been asking for for AAAGES and it makes it much more practical to use at the table. Small size, easy to move through the pages - its an all round win. The only loss is that the text size is on the small side - yes its readable, but they could have bumped it up a little and still had it at the same size.
It's a very practical product.
The Big Rule Book is fantastic and I'd never want it to go away, but more than half is lore and artwork. It's great material to get you into the setting, but its a lot of size and weight you don't need in a game. The GHB fits that role perfectly.
Gimgamgoo wrote: As a new player who just bought into AoS with the Domion box set, a few etb extras for sce and the generals handbook for points - does this mean the generals handbook is now out of date? There'll be new units in the orruk/sce battletomes with no entry in the general's handbook. I kinda feel that ghb thing was a waste of money - not to mention flicking through the rules with a spiral bound sucks.
Also point costs off.
But you don't buy GHB for points(those are in warscroll builder anyway). Rather it's the scenarios and more convenient way for rulebook than The Brick.
If you didn't want the scenarios GHB was 100% waste to begin with. If you wanted then those are still there. Points? Warscroll builder. GW's official site. Valid. No need for book flipping for points
Gimgamgoo wrote: As a new player who just bought into AoS with the Domion box set, a few etb extras for sce and the generals handbook for points - does this mean the generals handbook is now out of date? There'll be new units in the orruk/sce battletomes with no entry in the general's handbook. I kinda feel that ghb thing was a waste of money - not to mention flicking through the rules with a spiral bound sucks.
Buying any printed GW materials is generally poor investment, the points, the rules or both will be changed within months. Unless you're really desperate for the lore.
Gimgamgoo wrote: As a new player who just bought into AoS with the Domion box set, a few etb extras for sce and the generals handbook for points - does this mean the generals handbook is now out of date? There'll be new units in the orruk/sce battletomes with no entry in the general's handbook. I kinda feel that ghb thing was a waste of money - not to mention flicking through the rules with a spiral bound sucks.
Buying any printed GW materials is generally poor investment, the points, the rules or both will be changed within months. Unless you're really desperate for the lore.
Not all of them! Some armies can go YEARS without an update!
Gimgamgoo wrote: As a new player who just bought into AoS with the Domion box set, a few etb extras for sce and the generals handbook for points - does this mean the generals handbook is now out of date? There'll be new units in the orruk/sce battletomes with no entry in the general's handbook. I kinda feel that ghb thing was a waste of money - not to mention flicking through the rules with a spiral bound sucks.
Previously mentioned, but you don't want the General's Handbook for the army/ies, you want it for are now battleplans, grand strategies, and others, since the GHB NEVER HAD the warscrolls of the entire game in it.
And the GHB is out of date every year anyway, that's why you want to get one printed from your LGS.
What you want are the Battletomes because they have the rules to play your actual army. And their FAQs on hand. Points are always for free on their Warscroll Builder, under the List Building Tools of Warhammer-Community.
Well, at least until GW decides to shut down warscroll builder too (yeah yeah, I know, it's not even GW that makes it, just some random guy, but that doesn't mean they couldn't twist his arm if they felt like it) or bring it into W+ as another "free bonus!"
Gimgamgoo wrote: As a new player who just bought into AoS with the Domion box set, a few etb extras for sce and the generals handbook for points - does this mean the generals handbook is now out of date? There'll be new units in the orruk/sce battletomes with no entry in the general's handbook. I kinda feel that ghb thing was a waste of money - not to mention flicking through the rules with a spiral bound sucks.
Buying any printed GW materials is generally poor investment, the points, the rules or both will be changed within months. Unless you're really desperate for the lore.
Not all of them! Some armies can go YEARS without an update!
True, but it is a gamble.
I'd be feeling pretty good if I'd bought a Idoneth and/or Maggotkin Battletome, even if the pages would be getting a bit frayed.
On the other hand, if I'd bought a Lumineth or Space Marine 'dex I'd not be very happy.
Gimgamgoo wrote: As a new player who just bought into AoS with the Domion box set, a few etb extras for sce and the generals handbook for points - does this mean the generals handbook is now out of date? There'll be new units in the orruk/sce battletomes with no entry in the general's handbook. I kinda feel that ghb thing was a waste of money - not to mention flicking through the rules with a spiral bound sucks.
Buying any printed GW materials is generally poor investment, the points, the rules or both will be changed within months. Unless you're really desperate for the lore.
Not all of them! Some armies can go YEARS without an update!
True, but it is a gamble.
I'd be feeling pretty good if I'd bought a Lumineth and/or Maggotkin Battletome, even if the pages would be getting a bit frayed.
On the other hand, if I'd bought a Lumineth or Space Marine 'dex I'd not be very happy.
Gimgamgoo wrote: As a new player who just bought into AoS with the Domion box set, a few etb extras for sce and the generals handbook for points - does this mean the generals handbook is now out of date? There'll be new units in the orruk/sce battletomes with no entry in the general's handbook. I kinda feel that ghb thing was a waste of money - not to mention flicking through the rules with a spiral bound sucks.
Buying any printed GW materials is generally poor investment, the points, the rules or both will be changed within months. Unless you're really desperate for the lore.
Not all of them! Some armies can go YEARS without an update!
True, but it is a gamble.
I'd be feeling pretty good if I'd bought a Lumineth and/or Maggotkin Battletome, even if the pages would be getting a bit frayed.
On the other hand, if I'd bought a Lumineth or Space Marine 'dex I'd not be very happy.
I'm wondering if the heads and arms on the Gutripperz are similar to the Zombies, in that the arms and shoulder are one piece, with the weapon, shield and head separate. Its the only way some of the arms can be flexible, the champion is in a very different pose to everyone else.
Games Workshop wrote:Raise your own Dawnbringer Crusade settlements or raze them to the ground with these four boxes, including two Domicile Shells, a Guardian Idol, and a Nexus Syphon.
Four boxes? Four? Each of these items are a single sprue.
They're really going to justify releasing each of these as a separate release:
Games Workshop wrote:Raise your own Dawnbringer Crusade settlements or raze them to the ground with these four boxes, including two Domicile Shells, a Guardian Idol, and a Nexus Syphon.
Four boxes? Four? Each of these items are a single sprue.
They're really going to justify releasing each of these as a separate release:
TTBH if it means a price reduction vs what we'd get for getting all in one box that might not be ALL bad, course as this is GW the price reduction won't be all that much if anything.
Maybe it’s four different collections of those sprues? Like a set of walls, a bigger set of walls, a statue and some walls, and the ball/dome thing and a wall.
never said they'd give us one. just if they kept it cheap eneugh it'd be worthwhile. I expect it'll just be cheaper to buy the bloody starter box for the terrain. given the cost of the extremis starter set is 165 USDs, I'd expect this terrain to go for 50 bucks a piece.
In short packed seperately it'll be a trap for someone who "just wants the terrain" or "just wants one piece"
I wonder how much are the Gutrippaz gonna cost, since the Starter Box with 10 of them and a bunch of stuff costs 32£, and the new 40k Ork Boyz cost 31.50£ for 10. We gonna get another Necron Warrior situation on our hands?
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I wonder how much are the Gutrippaz gonna cost, since the Starter Box with 10 of them and a bunch of stuff costs 32£, and the new 40k Ork Boyz cost 31.50£ for 10. We gonna get another Necron Warrior situation on our hands?
Gutrippaz have some options on them (differant weapons, a banner and a musician) so it's POSSIABLE those goodies will make it worthwhile to buy the box, although I doubt it,
CMLR wrote: Hope they don't end up making multipart Gutrippaz having only 1" weapons.
Man, I really want to know which colors they used for the scenery's swirly effect. Seems like Baharroth and some whites.
nah we know for a fact they have spears or... whatever. I imagine no one will use anything but spears..... and then AOS 4.0 will make weapons with reach 2' not that great
Games Workshop wrote:Raise your own Dawnbringer Crusade settlements or raze them to the ground with these four boxes, including two Domicile Shells, a Guardian Idol, and a Nexus Syphon.
Four boxes? Four? Each of these items are a single sprue.
They're really going to justify releasing each of these as a separate release:
By all means we should criticize bad decisions, but let's also not forget that this situation is still way, waaaaaaaay better than late-stage Kirby era. Simply boiling things down to 'GW hasn't changed' is to say 'late stage Kirby policies were not any worse than what we have now' and I seriously doubt that is a viewpoint anyone is actually trying to express.
Is this really true any more, though? I mean clearly GW went through a period where it was more customer-friendly. But can we still say this is the case now, in September 2021? They've discontinued digital rules. They've discontinued free warscrolls. They discontinued the working AOS app and haven't replaced it with anything, and the 40k version is a mess. They've started a new round of IP enforcement by cracking down on animations in order to bring them in house and charge people money for what used to be free - not as widespread an IP crackdown as some feared (yet), but a new round nonetheless. They've been releasing embarrassingly broken products that need FAQs to FAQs to FAQs that keep messing stuff up over and over again. Start Collecting sets (at least in 40k) are being phased out in favor of more expensive starter sets with lower % discounts.
In what way is this company friendlier now than it was under Kirby? Genuine question, maybe I'm forgetting some stuff. But it feels like GW in September 2021 is very like GW under Kirby. I guess maybe the one thing you could say is they fix their errors faster than they used to, sometimes - see the FAQ to the FAQ to the FAQ.
I think we need to remember that Age of Sigmar launched with no balance mechanism whatsoever. The end-state Kirby era was so bad that having points is an improvement.
Games Workshop wrote:Raise your own Dawnbringer Crusade settlements or raze them to the ground with these four boxes, including two Domicile Shells, a Guardian Idol, and a Nexus Syphon.
Four boxes? Four? Each of these items are a single sprue.
They're really going to justify releasing each of these as a separate release:
By all means we should criticize bad decisions, but let's also not forget that this situation is still way, waaaaaaaay better than late-stage Kirby era. Simply boiling things down to 'GW hasn't changed' is to say 'late stage Kirby policies were not any worse than what we have now' and I seriously doubt that is a viewpoint anyone is actually trying to express.
Is this really true any more, though? I mean clearly GW went through a period where it was more customer-friendly. But can we still say this is the case now, in September 2021? They've discontinued digital rules. They've discontinued free warscrolls. They discontinued the working AOS app and haven't replaced it with anything, and the 40k version is a mess. They've started a new round of IP enforcement by cracking down on animations in order to bring them in house and charge people money for what used to be free - not as widespread an IP crackdown as some feared (yet), but a new round nonetheless. They've been releasing embarrassingly broken products that need FAQs to FAQs to FAQs that keep messing stuff up over and over again. Start Collecting sets (at least in 40k) are being phased out in favor of more expensive starter sets with lower % discounts.
In what way is this company friendlier now than it was under Kirby? Genuine question, maybe I'm forgetting some stuff. But it feels like GW in September 2021 is very like GW under Kirby. I guess maybe the one thing you could say is they fix their errors faster than they used to, sometimes - see the FAQ to the FAQ to the FAQ.
I think we need to remember that Age of Sigmar launched with no balance mechanism whatsoever. The end-state Kirby era was so bad that having points is an improvement.
Not true. There was a sudden death mechanic so my three Nagashs stand a chance against your five Night Goblins.
Games Workshop wrote:Raise your own Dawnbringer Crusade settlements or raze them to the ground with these four boxes, including two Domicile Shells, a Guardian Idol, and a Nexus Syphon.
Four boxes? Four? Each of these items are a single sprue.
They're really going to justify releasing each of these as a separate release:
Likewise when they announced the core terrain expansion people were annoyed they couldn't buy these individually, so someone complains either way.
Yeah, I can reasonably see people wanting individual items out of those. The price point is what will probably kill it.
Indeed, this is how it likely goes. GW terrain is expensive and best bought as bundles. Those usually tend to be good and you get a decent amount of stuff (last round of Kill Team boxes notwithstanding), but you pay big bucks for them. This announcement suggests you'll be buying individual kits at individually smaller, but unduly inflated cost and if you commit to a larger number of terrain pieces you end up paying more than you would with an equivalent bundle box. Neither approach is ideal, but I'd rather take the former as it at least provides a discount under some circumstances.
The only reason to consider individual boxes better is if you want a very specific terrain piece, and only that one, and nothing more. I feel like that's a very specific need and not something you will see very often. Good for those people, but a turn for the worse for those that have large terrain projects in mind or would like to fill a game board.
Why is the Keeper of Secrets 110€ and why was the puny Bloodthirster's price raised to that level? They're the big centerpiece models for the faction, and so is our vulture riding boy here. That's for the most part the price level GW assigns to centerpiece faction leaders at the moment.
It's a 160mm based, mounted named hero, directly equivalent to Alarielle for example, it was never going to cost anything less.
The other two monsters are actually less than what I expected, so I'm pretty cool with this wave. I figured the Snatchaboss would be in the Mangler Squigs price bracket.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh but they can get stuffed with that terrain pricing. I wanted the Nexus Syphon but it's more than half the cost of the whole combo set. Balls to that.
lord_blackfang wrote: Oh but they can get stuffed with that terrain pricing. I wanted the Nexus Syphon but it's more than half the cost of the whole combo set. Balls to that.
Yeah, this pricing seems to be very high unless they are adding some an additional scatter terrain sprue to that box (in which case price would still be high, just not quite so bad).
I had held off on the new terrain as got burnt last time around by buying the Indomitus terrain launch kit only for them to release a 2nd kit with both mats and an extra exclusive terrain piece. Thought they would do the same this time around and instead they have jumped straight to the over priced individual kits.
I had held off on the new terrain as got burnt last time around by buying the Indomitus terrain launch kit only for them to release a 2nd kit with both mats and an extra exclusive terrain piece.
Yeah but that doesn't always mean much these days. Heck before Corona shut down things, GW would often have a big event with nothing for one main game only to attend another event the next week or two that was focused on the other game.
CMLR wrote: Gen Con has no AoS content. I mean, yeas, Underworlds and Warcry is coming, but nothing for the main AoS branch, or should I say the trunk.
AoS is literally getting a brand new faction this week, new previews would steal their spotlight (sales). You can bet that after we've all picked up our Krule Boys preorders we'll find out about the next big thing in short order.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Gutrippaz at £31.50 is eye watering …. Glad I loaded up on Dominion versions ! I thought £40 for 20 would be more realistic.
Consider that they lack musicians and standard bearers, and 1" weapons options, and aparently the leader is suppoused to carry two weapons instead of a weapon and shield.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Gutrippaz at £31.50 is eye watering …. Glad I loaded up on Dominion versions ! I thought £40 for 20 would be more realistic.
They're a different kit than those in Dominion and starter sets with a number of options:
... this multipart kit gives you loads of variety. The heads and arms are interchangeable across all the bodies, they’ve got a selection of weapons, and there are enough bits to build a Boss, a Banner Bearer, and your choice of two different musicians.
Fortunately bigger units will want spears anyways, making starter kit boyz perfect for bulking out large units.
At any rate, I see those prices as pretty reasonable bar grumpy chicken who has the traditional centerpiece upcharge. I would still put it as a triple-digit model (in $) but not that high. But a lot more reasonably priced options this release than not, so I'm happy with this as a positive. Come to think of it SGL new releases are pretty reasonable in price too.
Dat terrain though, heh. Terrain is far more vulnerable to people opting for 3d printed options and prices like that will only widen that vulnerability.
CMLR wrote: Gen Con has no AoS content. I mean, yeas, Underworlds and Warcry is coming, but nothing for the main AoS branch, or should I say the trunk.
AoS is literally getting a brand new faction this week, new previews would steal their spotlight (sales). You can bet that after we've all picked up our Krule Boys preorders we'll find out about the next big thing in short order.
They literally aren't, they wouldn't because they already do preview whenever they want, and tehre sure are chances to get see the promised Chaos Battletome preview next, but no one outside them knows for sure.
Preordered 2 sloggoths and 1 of each other beast. No interest in playing Krule Boys in AoS, but they're great sculpts and will go nicely in my KoW armies. The sloggoth especially is a fantastic piece for any evil army's warbeast with a howdah.
At least warhammer+ subscribers sees old books rules as default. As it doesn't give you access without logging in with warhammer account no idea how it looks if you don't have subscription(ie do you see at least warscrolls still for free)
edit: Haa. Got idea to check stormcast. New units are there, full warscroll. Faction specific thing locked. So in that way better than 40k app.
edit2: Seems old book faction rules are visible period. Doesn't even have to be subscriber. Unexpected.
kodos wrote: it was written on WarCom that all the features of the App are free during the Beta-Phase
I was about to say it’s neat that I could use the army builder as well without one. I wonder where the line between what’s normally available and what isn’t is then.
Works pretty well from my quick look. There will be errors at launch, but a huge improvement over the 40k app, and better than the launch of the aos app for aos 2nd edition.
For my armies, the only error I've found so far is that one purple sun is too many purple sun lol.
Something works, something don't, like the fact that the fact that it won't register your Battleline Dragon army despite meeting the requirements. It also can't identify when you have an artifact that gives your Hero the Wizard Keyword.
Then, they updated there the warscrolls they didn't in the webstore; Megabosses are all insane.
Funny to mention that, while building my Stegageddon list, they stop counting Stegadons as Behemoths in Thunder Lizards armies at all, so you have to count them as Troops instead. Same story with BCR.
CMLR wrote: Funny to mention that, while building my Stegageddon list, they stop counting Stegadons as Behemoths in Thunder Lizards armies at all, so you have to count them as Troops instead. Same story with BCR.
That should be correct according to the 'Conditional Battlefield Roles' rule:
25.5.1 CONDITIONAL BATTLEFIELD ROLES Sometimes, the Notes column on a Pitched Battle profile will tell you to change the battlefield role of units of that type if certain conditions are met. For example, choosing a certain model to be your general can mean the battlefield role of certain units changes to Battleline. Where this is the case, unless noted otherwise, the unit loses all of the battlefield roles in the Battlefield Role column of its Pitched Battle profile and just has the battlefield role specified in the Notes column instead
CMLR wrote: Funny to mention that, while building my Stegageddon list, they stop counting Stegadons as Behemoths in Thunder Lizards armies at all, so you have to count them as Troops instead. Same story with BCR.
That should be correct according to the 'Conditional Battlefield Roles' rule:
25.5.1 CONDITIONAL BATTLEFIELD ROLES Sometimes, the Notes column on a Pitched Battle profile will tell you to change the battlefield role of units of that type if certain conditions are met. For example, choosing a certain model to be your general can mean the battlefield role of certain units changes to Battleline. Where this is the case, unless noted otherwise, the unit loses all of the battlefield roles in the Battlefield Role column of its Pitched Battle profile and just has the battlefield role specified in the Notes column instead
Yes, that's Battleline. Not Troop. I thought it was not clarified for Battalions.
Also to note, they DID put Legion of the First Prince as it's own faction, instead of a subfaction in StD.
CMLR wrote: Funny to mention that, while building my Stegageddon list, they stop counting Stegadons as Behemoths in Thunder Lizards armies at all, so you have to count them as Troops instead. Same story with BCR.
That should be correct according to the 'Conditional Battlefield Roles' rule:
25.5.1 CONDITIONAL BATTLEFIELD ROLES Sometimes, the Notes column on a Pitched Battle profile will tell you to change the battlefield role of units of that type if certain conditions are met. For example, choosing a certain model to be your general can mean the battlefield role of certain units changes to Battleline. Where this is the case, unless noted otherwise, the unit loses all of the battlefield roles in the Battlefield Role column of its Pitched Battle profile and just has the battlefield role specified in the Notes column instead
Yes, that's Battleline. Not Troop. I thought it was not clarified for Battalions.
Also to note, they DID put Legion of the First Prince as it's own faction, instead of a subfaction in StD.
A Troop is just a unit that isn't a Leader, Artillery or Behemoth, which a Stegadon in Thunder Lizards qualifies for (it is not a Leader, Artillery, or Behemoth).
Also, yes, Legion of the First Prince was never a subfaction of StD and if you were expecting it to be there for some reason, I don't know what to tell you. In other, similar news, Stormcast Eternals are also not a subfaction in StD.
Rihgu wrote: A Troop is just a unit that isn't a Leader, Artillery or Behemoth, which a Stegadon in Thunder Lizards qualifies for (it is not a Leader, Artillery, or Behemoth).
Agreed. A Thunder Lizards Stegadon would not be a 'Monster' unit for a Core Battalion. It would be a 'Troops' unit.
CMLR wrote: Funny to mention that, while building my Stegageddon list, they stop counting Stegadons as Behemoths in Thunder Lizards armies at all, so you have to count them as Troops instead. Same story with BCR.
That should be correct according to the 'Conditional Battlefield Roles' rule:
25.5.1 CONDITIONAL BATTLEFIELD ROLES Sometimes, the Notes column on a Pitched Battle profile will tell you to change the battlefield role of units of that type if certain conditions are met. For example, choosing a certain model to be your general can mean the battlefield role of certain units changes to Battleline. Where this is the case, unless noted otherwise, the unit loses all of the battlefield roles in the Battlefield Role column of its Pitched Battle profile and just has the battlefield role specified in the Notes column instead
Yes, that's Battleline. Not Troop. I thought it was not clarified for Battalions.
Also to note, they DID put Legion of the First Prince as it's own faction, instead of a subfaction in StD.
Battlefield role includes behemoth. It's not behemoth anymore and thus in bttalion fits to troop. It says right vhere loses all of battlefield roles...That is also why Thunderlizard can fit as many stegadon as points allow.
CMLR wrote: And yes, Legion of the First Prince was (kind of) in the previous StD Battletome.
No. This is the Slaves to Darkness battletome:
Spoiler:
While there was a warscroll for Be'lakor in the Slaves to Darkness battletome, the were no rules for the Legion of the First Prince. Those rules were found in the Soul Wars: Wrath of the Everchosen book:
CMLR wrote: And yes, Legion of the First Prince was (kind of) in the previous StD Battletome.
No. This is the Slaves to Darkness battletome:
Spoiler:
While there was a warscroll for Be'lakor in the Slaves to Darkness battletome, the were no rules for the Legion of the First Prince. Those rules were found in the Soul Wars: Wrath of the Everchosen book:
Spoiler:
Yeah.
Checked out that you can't place any SoB unit in any Battalion in the App?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Great news everyone! While building my Thunder Lizard army in the BETA app:
Remember the Sub-commander? less than 10 wounds? so far, the app not only is not registering either increased wound count provided by aditional rules (Thunder Lizard monsters have two extra wounds), but your Leaders qualify as a Sub-commander if you have 10 wounds anyway.
Let's see if this gets fixed or is working as intended. The BETA still has the Doby troggoths with +1 hits missing, and SoB are not working as intended, after all.
So checking out the app myself, the knight dracious is pretty solid.
and looks like stormdrake guard can be taken in 1s or 2s. (which I think is an indicator that the knight dracious is an optional build in a stormdrake guard pack)
Looks like a bsic all dragon army would clock in at just over 1000 points
It is great that if one buys the kit of two and assembles the a character they now let the remainder be run as a unit instead of being left as odd-man-out.
NinthMusketeer wrote: It is great that if one buys the kit of two and assembles the a character they now let the remainder be run as a unit instead of being left as odd-man-out.
BrianDavion wrote: So checking out the app myself, the knight dracious is pretty solid.
and looks like stormdrake guard can be taken in 1s or 2s. (which I think is an indicator that the knight dracious is an optional build in a stormdrake guard pack)
Looks like a bsic all dragon army would clock in at just over 1000 points
*Draconis
Eldarain wrote: I'd Love to see that change for the Blightlords.
@CMLR I have the Everchosen book here and Chaos Ascendant/First Prince are their own Chaos Allegiance. What makes you think it's a Slaves subfaction?
Already been corrected. It was because convenience of keywords and the oddity of a possible Battletome for LotFP.
BrianDavion wrote: So checking out the app myself, the knight dracious is pretty solid.
and looks like stormdrake guard can be taken in 1s or 2s. (which I think is an indicator that the knight dracious is an optional build in a stormdrake guard pack)
Looks like a bsic all dragon army would clock in at just over 1000 points
Yeah there's singles for guard to ensure the spare you get if you build hero isn't waste. In similar way you can get fulminators in singles(oddly not other variants)
I wish they would just consolidate dracothian guard and non-thunderstike paladins into one warscroll with multiple weapon options. SCE have some serious bloat issues.
Eldarain wrote: @CMLR I have the Everchosen book here and Chaos Ascendant/First Prince are their own Chaos Allegiance. What makes you think it's a Slaves subfaction?
IIRC when they previewed the SCE rule last week that calls out specific factions as being Chaos, it was interesting to note that neither "Beasts of Chaos" nor "Legion of the First Prince" were listed - and one argument as to why the latter wasn't there was that they fell under the Slaves to Darkness heading.
Eldarain wrote: @CMLR I have the Everchosen book here and Chaos Ascendant/First Prince are their own Chaos Allegiance. What makes you think it's a Slaves subfaction?
IIRC when they previewed the SCE rule last week that calls out specific factions as being Chaos, it was interesting to note that neither "Beasts of Chaos" nor "Legion of the First Prince" were listed - and one argument as to why the latter wasn't there was that they fell under the Slaves to Darkness heading.
just as tellingly, in the factions listing in the AOS 3.0 core rules, Belakors legion isn't listed as a faction.
Eldarain wrote: @CMLR I have the Everchosen book here and Chaos Ascendant/First Prince are their own Chaos Allegiance. What makes you think it's a Slaves subfaction?
IIRC when they previewed the SCE rule last week that calls out specific factions as being Chaos, it was interesting to note that neither "Beasts of Chaos" nor "Legion of the First Prince" were listed - and one argument as to why the latter wasn't there was that they fell under the Slaves to Darkness heading.
just as tellingly, in the factions listing in the AOS 3.0 core rules, Belakors legion isn't listed as a faction.
We still have a mystery Kruleboyz character that has a hawk perched on his arm or shoulder correct? On page 31. Is that a unit leader for the Gut-rippas? I don't recall seeing a sprue for the Gut-rippa's yet.
I thought for sure that would be a Underworlds warband dude, but he's not in that boxed set. Perhaps a Warcry warband?
nels1031 wrote: We still have a mystery Kruleboyz character that has a hawk perched on his arm or shoulder correct? On page 31. Is that a unit leader for the Gut-rippas? I don't recall seeing a sprue for the Gut-rippa's yet.
I thought for sure that would be a Underworlds warband dude, but he's not in that boxed set. Perhaps a Warcry warband?
If he's not in the Battletome and not in Underworlds... yea, must be Warcry. Bit weird he was in an army shot with battletome units.
nels1031 wrote: We still have a mystery Kruleboyz character that has a hawk perched on his arm or shoulder correct? On page 31. Is that a unit leader for the Gut-rippas? I don't recall seeing a sprue for the Gut-rippa's yet.
I thought for sure that would be a Underworlds warband dude, but he's not in that boxed set. Perhaps a Warcry warband?
If he's not in the Battletome and not in Underworlds... yea, must be Warcry. Bit weird he was in an army shot with battletome units.
Could also be a store opening event kind of model.
nels1031 wrote: We still have a mystery Kruleboyz character that has a hawk perched on his arm or shoulder correct? On page 31. Is that a unit leader for the Gut-rippas? I don't recall seeing a sprue for the Gut-rippa's yet.
I thought for sure that would be a Underworlds warband dude, but he's not in that boxed set. Perhaps a Warcry warband?
Might be from the crossbowmen box whenever that releases.
There was a mention of this during the "Dominion Celebration", which showed off the full kit:
Alongside them are the Man-skewer Boltboyz with a new Boltboy Boss option.
It's a box of 3 and none of the bodies match they don't have lower leg armour,the clothing is different and boltboyz don't have spears or scareshields it's not an option on the warscroll in the new app it's just too different to be a boltboy option the boss is likely just an alt head and the backbanner. Gutrippa maybe we'll know tomorrow night when the NZ store updates.
Just the 1 banner with the Gutrippaz but 2 banner tops and 2 boss heads
So these cost the same as the Snagga Boyz... but come with one more sprue, more parts, and are much less monopose?
Not that i'm complaining.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I like how you can go for a Hornblower or a Drummer for the musician, that's cool. Also, 11 shields, 11 spears, 13 diffrent short weapons, enough to equip the whole squad either way and then some.
Not a bad set with the Gutrippaz at all, just a shame at the lack of a second banner on the sprues. But stick a spare banner top on one of your Dominion spear lads and the job is a good one.
Interestingly the Boltboyz are shown in the big bundle photo, but excluded from the description. Points to some form of delay hitting their release.
Yeah just noticed the Boltboyz in the bundle image something must have delayed them.
The Domicile Shells and Guardian Statue are direct only same price individually as the Nexus Syphon £30 €40 $50. The realmscape expansion is £55 so if you want 2 of the 3 buy that instead and you get 2 statues - individually it's £120 vs £55!
DaveC wrote: Yeah just noticed the Boltboyz in the bundle image something must have delayed them.
The Domicile Shells and Guardian Statue are direct only same price individually as the Nexus Syphon £30 $40 $50. The realmscape expansion is £55 so if you want 2 of the 3 buy that instead and you get 2 statues - individually it's £120 vs £55!
DaveC wrote: Yeah just noticed the Boltboyz in the bundle image something must have delayed them.
The Domicile Shells and Guardian Statue are direct only same price individually as the Nexus Syphon £30 $40 $50. The realmscape expansion is £55 so if you want 2 of the 3 buy that instead and you get 2 statues - individually it's £120 vs £55!
H.B.M.C. was right yet again.
that the package deal would be the best way to get them and that buying the pieces seperately would be stupidly over priced by comparison wasn't exactly a hard call
DaveC wrote: Yeah just noticed the Boltboyz in the bundle image something must have delayed them.
The Domicile Shells and Guardian Statue are direct only same price individually as the Nexus Syphon £30 $40 $50. The realmscape expansion is £55 so if you want 2 of the 3 buy that instead and you get 2 statues - individually it's £120 vs £55!
H.B.M.C. was right yet again.
that the package deal would be the best way to get them and that buying the pieces seperately would be stupidly over priced by comparison wasn't exactly a hard call
Yeah it wasn't a prediction so much as a statement of what we all knew would happen. I mean absolutely HNBC was right, but I can predict the sun will rise tomorrow and be right about that too. We were all on the same page.
But none'a y'all thought they'd be that fething expensive. I'd also like to address the comment that someone made about maybe wanting some of the terrain separately without needing to buy the rest.
Tell me: Does anyone think that there was a great demand for the smaller of the two ruined corners?
I mean, I was worried when I saw the 4 boxes thing, but AUD$84 for a single sprue of terrain? They are 'avin' a laff with this one, for sure.
AUD$336 to get one of each. This thing costs AUD$150 (missing the globe, but it has two statues) and you get a mat in there. It's less than half the price!!! This is AUD$14 more, and you get both ruined corners.
For AUD$230, so 68% the cost of buying one of each of those four terrain sets, you get all of this:
"But starter sets are meant to be..."
Irrelevant!
These prices are shockingly high. Ludicrously high. Insultingly high.
The prices are doubly non sensical from GW's point of view when you have terrain fans (like H.B.M.C) who will buy that starter then sell off the miniatures, thus hitting sales of individual Stormcast and Kruleboyz boxes and blisters. It is almost like they actively do not want to sell the individual terrain pieces, which is obviously nonsense, but those prices push you towards that line of thought.
The statue has an optional head with a skull instead of a face. That's nice. I didn't know that.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But none'a y'all thought they'd be that fething expensive.
I beg to differ. AoS terrain has been stupidly expensive from the start and 40k stuff has been catching up in recent times. The latest release doesn't take some great gift of foresight to see coming.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'd also like to address the comment that someone made about maybe wanting some of the terrain separately without needing to buy the rest.
I think you may be referring to me. Not that I disagree with most of what you said, but I stand by what I said about it being conceivable for someone who just wants one thing out of all those things in the starter set. Yes, that particular corner is very likely not ever going to be in high demand. The statue, on the other hand, is something that has far greater value on its own than a random ruin corner. All these things are priced the same but their value to the customer more likely than not varies wildly.
The simple fact is that you pay 40€ for the statue, to stay with that example, but 130€ for the starter set that includes it. If you don't want any of the other stuff and can't be bothered to sell off the rest or go to bits sellers for the the thing you want, you end up paying less than a third if you buy the single kit over the starter set. You're still overpaying, obviously, but your overall expense is far smaller and there's no additional hassle involved.
If you want two statues, you're paying 70€ for the expansion set instead of two times 40€ for the single kit. That's far closer and likely more enticing if you want to spend less and don't need more stuff. But if you are determined to get just that one thing, the single set still offers what you want for a considerably lower price.
I have to assume enough people like that exist for GW to go to the trouble of making these individual boxes. The only other purpose for them I can think of is that they're in what GW considers impulse purchase price range, possibly with the side benefit of some people buying them because they like the models but are not aware of the bundle sets that offer better value. I like to think most people follow your line of thought when comparing value. I do, too, and I said as much in my earlier post. But I don't think everyone does, even if they are fully informed of their options.
Yeah, the mistake being made is the erroneous assumption that people buy for value instead of cost. Marketing knows they don’t and marketing exploits this to the hilt.
It doesn’t matter to the vast majority of people that they could have four of a thing for only three times the price; one of a thing is a third of the price of four and if they only planned to buy one, that’s all they want.
This is why the little jars of {common household consumable} in supermarkets sell faster than the big ones even despite the price-per-weight/volume being calculated for you and printed on the shelf tag.
It's not just value but also hassle or practicality
The small jars might cost more per unit, but at the same time a single person or small family might actually use most of the contents; whilst a larger jar might go off before they finish it.
Or it can also be cash flow- they buy the cheaper smaller items because that fits their budget. Even if it means in the long term they are spending more money per unit of items, the short term is that they can afford what they need each week/month/whenever.
For models the models won't "go off" but if you have more than you need then you've got to put time into finding someone to buy them off you. Then you've got to sort out postage, shipping or find someone local etc... Basically for the price difference you've then got to put more "work" and time into getting rid of what you didn't need.
At times people just don't want that and the price difference isn't that huge. Sure if you're geared up to trade there's room to make profit, but like a lot of things unless you're setup and experienced at doing it regularly, then its often more hassle than its worth.
Mr_Rose wrote: This is why the little jars of {common household consumable} in supermarkets sell faster than the big ones even despite the price-per-weight/volume being calculated for you and printed on the shelf tag.
Or, you know, because the big jars are too big and go bad before you actually use it.
No they are not but the point still stands. If you want only one item of the bundle, it's more convenient to buy that one item separately than buy a large bundle and try selling the rest. I don't agree with GW pricing but I understand it.
New AoS terrain looks nice but I am going to avoid it for now and wait if there is going to be a bigger bundle that contains everything. I was impatient with Vertigus scenery and bought 40k Command Edition Battlefield Expansion. It was a good deal but the next bundle was even better and contained an exclusive piece that I still don't have.
Very simple on "how to avoid that people only buy the terrain without starting a new Stormcast army for AoS or even play a different game with our terrain"
If the terrain is made in China (like some of it is) then the prices may reflect the vastly increased shipping costs as well as GWs normal expensive is best attitude
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: If the terrain is made in China (like some of it is) then the prices may reflect the vastly increased shipping costs as well as GWs normal expensive is best attitude
Wouldn't they reflect it also if the terrain is part of a bundle?
Notice that the 3 parts that are in the bundle are all Direct Only. That means they would be coming in a white mail-order box, with a bar code on the top...and since the mail-order boxes are all just sized to fit whatever comes in them? An SKU will exist but inventory management won't necessarily be extensive or expensive. Might just be that they have a tub of the sprues for each with the SKU on them and they pull them out and throw them into a MO box and slap the correct barcode on.
I previously and will continue to defend the concept of offering the terrain pieces individually. They should be available that way rather than being exclusive to a bundle. Like I said at the time of the announcement GW is doing a good thing with this.
I also said at the time of the announcement, that good will be undone by the individual pricing. I don't really feel like I made a 'prediction' and got it right though, and I don't think a single person expressed an expectation for anything else. We all saw this coming.
lord_blackfang wrote: If it hasn't been brought up, just saw it said on FB that the Mirebrute Troggoth has head options for both the rider and the mount.
Yep and the alt head looks better as it doesn't have the goofy teeth. Henry from Cult of Paint used the alt heads on his. I think the sloggoth has an alt head as well they look similar but slightly different
Agreed that the Mirebrute looks better with both alt heads, they were what I used on mine. The main issue with the kit is even when removing the push fit pins there are some noticeable gaps on the model. You can see some on the wrists of the cult of paint fellows model, the ones along the legs of mine are especially egregious. Had to use a fair bit of Mr Putty to fill them, still love it though.
The Sloggoth also has alternative crew weapons, not sure if those are represented on the Warscroll though.
