CMLR wrote: Regarding Gutrippaz options; you might as well use the Dominion ones as reinforcements.
I'm really satisfied with these boyz. I just wonder why the leader is double wielding. In fact, no part of the rules say that you *need* skareshields.
Although the unit cards state a special rule for skareshields.
I prefer the poses of the Dominion spear wielder kruleboyz. However, they don't have access to banners or musicians. I bet there aren't enough extra bits in the new box to fix a few Dominion units.
The rules for the unit say they have scare shields and other ways of intimidating the enemy , the rule allows them to inflict -1 to hit on a unit they charge if ld test is failed. Assuming any save benefit is baked in.
If anyone bought multiple Dominion gutrippaz/hobgrots then it’s very easy to add hobgrot musician horns to the backs/belts of a gutrippa and cut a spear and add a hobgrot standard with a spare gutrippa shield to make a basic standard. Not award winning but gets the job done.
CMLR wrote: Regarding Gutrippaz options; you might as well use the Dominion ones as reinforcements.
I'm really satisfied with these boyz. I just wonder why the leader is double wielding. In fact, no part of the rules say that you *need* skareshields.
Although the unit cards state a special rule for skareshields.
I prefer the poses of the Dominion spear wielder kruleboyz. However, they don't have access to banners or musicians. I bet there aren't enough extra bits in the new box to fix a few Dominion units.
CMLR wrote: Regarding Gutrippaz options; you might as well use the Dominion ones as reinforcements.
I'm really satisfied with these boyz. I just wonder why the leader is double wielding. In fact, no part of the rules say that you *need* skareshields.
Although the unit cards state a special rule for skareshields.
I prefer the poses of the Dominion spear wielder kruleboyz. However, they don't have access to banners or musicians. I bet there aren't enough extra bits in the new box to fix a few Dominion units.
There are.
There is only one banner but two options for musicians (horn and drum).
If we want to be technical, without shields they would be considered not fully assembled. But the important part is that there is no equipment option where they don't have shields, so there is not going to be any confusion as to what their stats are either way. As long as suitable conversion measures were taken I doubt people would have a problem with it.
DarkStarSabre wrote: So, not too sure if anyone noticed or this slipped smoothly under the radar but with the AoS app...
All the 'free' warscrolls on the GW webstore have disappeared. Completely.
Only way to access them now is the app.
So not only the new stuff - Dominion onwards - but all the old ones as well?
Weren't people saying this wouldn't happen?
Hmm...
Well someone will find a way to say this is a good thing dont you worry.
Im pretty much done with the gaming side at this point. Both 40k and now AoS. Rules, books are just too expensive overall, specially if you play multi systems and have multiple factions. Calling it gaming quits since I cannot support that biz model.
Buy minis for modelling sake.
I think a few people did propose that it might not happen as technically they were 2.0 warscrolls. I suspect many thought GW would just cycle them each time they updated a Battletome to 3.0.
So it might be a touch surprising for some that all the warscrolls are gone.
Personally I find it annoying, if just because it was handy being able to freely check what units did what or what options there were outside of armies you collect and own the battletome for. The kind of thing that can be interesting to check when chatting about another army or when checking a rule to help someone or when looking up a new army to collect and getting a bit of a feel for them.
It's not the end of the world to me; sorry to see it gone, but at the same time its not a surprise.
Overread wrote: I think a few people did propose that it might not happen as technically they were 2.0 warscrolls. I suspect many thought GW would just cycle them each time they updated a Battletome to 3.0.
So it might be a touch surprising for some that all the warscrolls are gone.
Personally I find it annoying, if just because it was handy being able to freely check what units did what or what options there were outside of armies you collect and own the battletome for. The kind of thing that can be interesting to check when chatting about another army or when checking a rule to help someone or when looking up a new army to collect and getting a bit of a feel for them.
It's not the end of the world to me; sorry to see it gone, but at the same time its not a surprise.
proably was easier to remove em all at once. at least right now the AOSap is free since it's in beta.
The decision has nothing to do with "ease" and everything to do with a short-sighted approach to making more money. The "easiest" thing would have been to leave the scrolls up.
It's just more evidence GW is returning to the old customer-unfriendly "squeeze more money out of a rock" policies that got it into a hole in the first place. All in the name of keeping the unsustainable stock price growth going for a little bit longer.
You can complain here: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Complaint-Portal (I assume other countries have their version). I don't flatter myself that it'll cause a change, but if they get enough discontent registered, it might possibly cause them to hold off on the next customer-unfriendly policy they're planning on rolling out.
NinthMusketeer wrote: If we want to be technical, without shields they would be considered not fully assembled. But the important part is that there is no equipment option where they don't have shields, so there is not going to be any confusion as to what their stats are either way. As long as suitable conversion measures were taken I doubt people would have a problem with it.
The warscrolls doesn't say you must equip them with skareshields, so you could get 4 boxes go give a single 10 man unit two hand weapons. The rule about Scare Taktiks is justified with them ululating. Let's be honest, only Grots get scared of those shields.
NinthMusketeer wrote: If we want to be technical, without shields they would be considered not fully assembled. But the important part is that there is no equipment option where they don't have shields, so there is not going to be any confusion as to what their stats are either way. As long as suitable conversion measures were taken I doubt people would have a problem with it.
The warscrolls doesn't say you must equip them with skareshields, so you could get 4 boxes go give a single 10 man unit two hand weapons. The rule about Scare Taktiks is justified with them ululating. Let's be honest, only Grots get scared of those shields.
From my reading of fluff there is a magical/hallucinatory element to it, which makes more sense (not that the flavor text explains such). And yeah, kitbashing to give them all two weapons wouldn't be something anyone would have a problem with.
NinthMusketeer wrote: If we want to be technical, without shields they would be considered not fully assembled. But the important part is that there is no equipment option where they don't have shields, so there is not going to be any confusion as to what their stats are either way. As long as suitable conversion measures were taken I doubt people would have a problem with it.
The warscrolls doesn't say you must equip them with skareshields, so you could get 4 boxes go give a single 10 man unit two hand weapons. The rule about Scare Taktiks is justified with them ululating. Let's be honest, only Grots get scared of those shields.
Hey now, at least it's not as bad as Reivers giving a -2 Leadership in 40k because they wear goofy skull masks.
The warscrolls doesn't say you must equip them with skareshields, so you could get 4 boxes go give a single 10 man unit two hand weapons. The rule about Scare Taktiks is justified with them ululating. Let's be honest, only Grots get scared of those shields.
From my reading of fluff there is a magical/hallucinatory element to it, which makes more sense (not that the flavor text explains such). And yeah, kitbashing to give them all two weapons wouldn't be something anyone would have a problem with.
Without the Battletome, I figured out that the skareshields somehow emanates some of Kragnos intimidating prescense.
CMLR wrote: Regarding Gutrippaz options; you might as well use the Dominion ones as reinforcements..
Using them as reinforcement doesn't solve anything. Still need to convert the banner.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CMLR wrote: Just watched this video about some rumours (I couldn't find) in Reddit:
Anyone readed the original Reddit post?
Isnt this basically the old rumour circulated before? Also any rumour that involves word start collecting I'm dubious. GW seems to be moving AWAY with it in new editions. 40kSC's died out. I doubt AOS gets new ones either.
CMLR wrote: Just watched this video about some rumours (I couldn't find) in Reddit:
He himself said that this came from a "trust me, I know someone" post.
Anyone readed the original Reddit post?
It’s basically the 4chan rumours from June repackaged with a few omissions and nothing new.
There’s a copy on Faeit 212
Whilst nothing on the AoS side has been disproven yet the 1000 sons vs Grey Knights was wrong about 1 side being entirely new in the end each just got 1 mini.
What advantage does having multiple banner bearers and musicians give ? In most cases the owning player chooses casualties and the unit only needs one of each to benefit , and benefit isn’t cumulative.
There are a handful of ways your opponent can choose the casualty and they’re more likely going to take out the champion it break coherency if they can do that.
TwilightSparkles wrote: What advantage does having multiple banner bearers and musicians give ? In most cases the owning player chooses casualties and the unit only needs one of each to benefit , and benefit isn’t cumulative.
There are a handful of ways your opponent can choose the casualty and they’re more likely going to take out the champion it break coherency if they can do that.
Here's a riddle for you: what happens when your opponent kills your banner?
And more than handful, getting more numerous, every single army can do it
TwilightSparkles wrote: What advantage does having multiple banner bearers and musicians give ? In most cases the owning player chooses casualties and the unit only needs one of each to benefit , and benefit isn’t cumulative.
There are a handful of ways your opponent can choose the casualty and they’re more likely going to take out the champion it break coherency if they can do that.
Here's a riddle for you: what happens when your opponent kills your banner?
And more than handful, getting more numerous, every single army can do it
You get to choose which model to remove from the unit, not your opponent, so the last three models in your unit are the banner, musician and leader. And unless you are a Daemon or Skeleton, or Rally, that unit is pretty much fodder.
If your unit can get two different banners, you can stack them, but otherwise there is no riddle at all.
Yes, however sometimes only certain units are in range or can be removed to maintain unit coherency. Furthermore there's a few targeted abilities out there where your opponent can specify which model they are removing.
In general I've built and always stuck to 1 banner and 1 musician per unit. I think units with multiple just look silly in general. Heck for Slaanesh their cavalry have 1 banner, 1 musician, 1 icon and 1 leader. In a basic 5 unit set there's only 1 troop. So if you did a full unit of 20 you'd only have 4 actual troops.
Which again just seems silly visually to me - so I stick to that whole 1 per unit" aspect same as the leader. Sure it might not be optimal but visually it looks right.
Flashpoint Clash in Azyr. Rumour starts to coincide.
Seraphon get a replacement for the Primeval Domain a "new" core battalion, named Thunderquake, which is named exactly the same as the previous warscroll battalion, that let you to use 1 hero Stegadon, 2 Stegas/ Basties and 1 Kroxigor/Hunting Pack unit, which also used to let you use one Troglodon in the first Battletome.
Rob on the Honest Wargamer mentioned that there is fairly secure rumour there is an issue with the production on the SCE Dragons and they won’t be out in the next month it could possibly be months before they get released.
DaveC wrote: Rob on the Honest Wargamer mentioned that there is fairly secure rumour there is an issue with the production on the SCE Dragons and they won’t be out in the next month it could possibly be months before they get released.
I'm going to laugh when it turns out they put three wings on one sprue and 1 on another and cant figure out how to separate the sprues to be sold individually.
DaveC wrote: Rob on the Honest Wargamer mentioned that there is fairly secure rumour there is an issue with the production on the SCE Dragons and they won’t be out in the next month it could possibly be months before they get released.
I'm going to laugh when it turns out they put three wings on one sprue and 1 on another and cant figure out how to separate the sprues to be sold individually.
I'm going to cry when I see the price tag of a dragon retooled complex sprue....
DaveC wrote: Rob on the Honest Wargamer mentioned that there is fairly secure rumour there is an issue with the production on the SCE Dragons and they won’t be out in the next month it could possibly be months before they get released.
I'm going to laugh when it turns out they put three wings on one sprue and 1 on another and cant figure out how to separate the sprues to be sold individually.
That would have been done months ago if the problem was there.
Only rumour I've heard concerns a shortage of the flight stands.
DaveC wrote: Rob on the Honest Wargamer mentioned that there is fairly secure rumour there is an issue with the production on the SCE Dragons and they won’t be out in the next month it could possibly be months before they get released.
DaveC wrote: Rob on the Honest Wargamer mentioned that there is fairly secure rumour there is an issue with the production on the SCE Dragons and they won’t be out in the next month it could possibly be months before they get released.
DaveC wrote: Rob on the Honest Wargamer mentioned that there is fairly secure rumour there is an issue with the production on the SCE Dragons and they won’t be out in the next month it could possibly be months before they get released.
I'm going to laugh when it turns out they put three wings on one sprue and 1 on another and cant figure out how to separate the sprues to be sold individually.
That would have been done months ago if the problem was there.
Only rumour I've heard concerns a shortage of the flight stands.
Yeah I'd think it more likely that it was overseas printed/cast materials since overseas is a nightmare right now. Containers cost a fortune and are in short supply so anything that misses a boat or is oversold etc... could take months to overcome; even for a firm like GW that has regular overseas shipments sent.
Yeah I'd think it more likely that it was overseas printed/cast materials since overseas is a nightmare right now. Containers cost a fortune and are in short supply so anything that misses a boat or is oversold etc... could take months to overcome; even for a firm like GW that has regular overseas shipments sent.
The plastic used in the clear flight stands, supposedly, was the same as that used for some medical equipment.
Yeah I'd think it more likely that it was overseas printed/cast materials since overseas is a nightmare right now. Containers cost a fortune and are in short supply so anything that misses a boat or is oversold etc... could take months to overcome; even for a firm like GW that has regular overseas shipments sent.
The plastic used in the clear flight stands, supposedly, was the same as that used for some medical equipment.
That one of those random things people just pull out of their ass to make excuses for GW, innit? I just got like 2kg of freshly cast clear plastic sprues, myself.
Yeah I'd think it more likely that it was overseas printed/cast materials since overseas is a nightmare right now. Containers cost a fortune and are in short supply so anything that misses a boat or is oversold etc... could take months to overcome; even for a firm like GW that has regular overseas shipments sent.
The plastic used in the clear flight stands, supposedly, was the same as that used for some medical equipment.
Why in the world would anyone in their right mind decide that was a good idea?
DaveC wrote: Rob on the Honest Wargamer mentioned that there is fairly secure rumour there is an issue with the production on the SCE Dragons and they won’t be out in the next month it could possibly be months before they get released.
Are we talking about the big boys or the riders?
He just said dragons without specifying further.
the big ones don't use flightstands, just the small ones do
as for the clear plastic stands and medical equipment rumor... doesn't make sense to me, the only thing that would delay would be the dragon riders, even if they wanted to hold back "the big guys" to go along with them there's no reason they couldn't release the Vanquishers and Annialators. No this is likely a shipping issue,
That one of those random things people just pull out of their ass to make excuses for GW, innit? I just got like 2kg of freshly cast clear plastic sprues, myself.
That's cool and all, but you're a private consumer not a business...and you're in Europe rather than Brexitland.
as for the clear plastic stands and medical equipment rumor... doesn't make sense to me, the only thing that would delay would be the dragon riders, even if they wanted to hold back "the big guys" to go along with them there's no reason they couldn't release the Vanquishers and Annialators. No this is likely a shipping issue,
We don't actually know what's delayed, beyond there being a "dragons are delayed because of production issues" rumour.
Because we haven't had a week of Stormcast preorders yet. We had book delays to start with, a week of just Kruleboyz preorders, the rest of the 40k Ork preorders, and now a bumper week of Specialist Games stuff going up on Saturday.
That one of those random things people just pull out of their ass to make excuses for GW, innit? I just got like 2kg of freshly cast clear plastic sprues, myself.
That's cool and all, but you're a private consumer not a business...and you're in Europe rather than Brexitland.
The business I bought them from is a business.
But I'll yield a point for Brexit, the gakshow that keep on gaking.
What I wish they stopped are those horrible ball-joint flightstands that are somehow less stable than all previous iterations of the flight stand. I do not for the life of me understand why they went with that and the small flightstand's nightmare cup-joint.
They really would be better off just going with an unusually shaped stand,rather than round, that way models would be much more stable, every iteration they have made since the peg style has been dire.
ok, at this point GW really owes AOS players a god damned answer, we should begin a facebook posting campaign to at least get them to address this long delay
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: It's hacking me right off personally. I've had something of a go on the facebook pages, but you never get anything other than copy/paste answer.
Because they don't have anything other than a copy/paste answer.
I get that it might make you feel better grousing at them...but they don't know anything more than we do. Rumour is that there's some kind of manufacturing delay on the dragons--which could be anything from boxes not arriving on time, instructions not arriving on time, bases not arriving on time, yadda yadda yadda. Hopefully it gets solved or they just make an announcement about the dragons being late and then push out everything they can. I'm waiting on the Vigilors myself.
I could go with that if they just made an announcement about it. They did it with the Sylvaneth tome, so there's precedent. At the moment it's just fingers in the ears, copy paste answers. It's just irritating.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I could go with that if they just made an announcement about it. They did it with the Sylvaneth tome, so there's precedent. At the moment it's just fingers in the ears, copy paste answers. It's just irritating.
If they need to do an announcement? They likely will. They announced other stuff being delayed this year and last.
BrianDavion wrote: at the very least they should release the non-dragon stuff and then say "there have been some issues with the dragons but we hope to have them soon"
As if they would ever do something remotely like that!
BrianDavion wrote: at the very least they should release the non-dragon stuff and then say "there have been some issues with the dragons but we hope to have them soon"
Or, to be even more GW - release the non-dragon stuff, and say nothing about the dragon stuff until they're ready/able/willing to release the dragon stuff, at which point no mention of a delay will be made...
BrianDavion wrote: ok, at this point GW really owes AOS players a god damned answer, we should begin a facebook posting campaign to at least get them to address this long delay
Are people really pretending not to know what the delay is? Like seriously guys. You know what the problem is.
Release some stuff, say nothing, release the other stuff, say nothing, release a limited run of the dragons and say that it was always planned that way (and edit old post with the original release date so people don't get confused)
don't know if it is a good sign that 3rd Edition AoS starts similar as 7th Warhammer ended (no releases, no communications etc)
BrianDavion wrote: at the very least they should release the non-dragon stuff and then say "there have been some issues with the dragons but we hope to have them soon"
Or, to be even more GW - release the non-dragon stuff, and say nothing about the dragon stuff until they're ready/able/willing to release the dragon stuff, at which point no mention of a delay will be made...
But only because they determined that approach on a random table. For the next delay, a new roll is made.
BrianDavion wrote: ok, at this point GW really owes AOS players a god damned answer, we should begin a facebook posting campaign to at least get them to address this long delay
Are people really pretending not to know what the delay is? Like seriously guys. You know what the problem is.
We know there is a delay. We can speculate and feel good about our chance of guessing right as to why there is a delay. However we don't actually know the cause of the delay.
GW is once again dropping the ball on communication. People are perfectly willing to understand a delay, especially these days. What they aren't willing to understand is the total radio silence. Seriously, even a statement acknowledging the problem and saying 'we're working on it' would go a long way in promoting good will with the community.
NinthMusketeer wrote: GW is once again dropping the ball on communication. People are perfectly willing to understand a delay, especially these days. What they aren't willing to understand is the total radio silence. Seriously, even a statement acknowledging the problem and saying 'we're working on it' would go a long way in promoting good will with the community.
^ this.
We all know why there are delays, between brexit, covid and just plain old bad luck this is understandable, but communication would be appreciated.
Well know and know. Speculation and rumours. Did gw ever say when dragons would be coming? We know that even pre-covia gw could wait months after codex for new kits telling only they come "real soon".
tneva82 wrote: Well know and know. Speculation and rumours. Did gw ever say when dragons would be coming? We know that even pre-covia gw could wait months after codex for new kits telling only they come "real soon".
the days of months long waits after a codex release for new kits ended with 6th edition. you occasionally see things where they'll release a special box (ala the sisters, orks and upcoming black templars boxes) but beyond that you didn't really see it. yes space marines got a slwoed release but that was in conjection with a slow drip feed of releases coinciding with the supplements.
Someone has to say it; Space Marines and Stormcasts are at the front of the queue whenever a new edition is dropped. The dragons are the main attraction of the new Stormcast range and we'll get them shortly.
NinthMusketeer wrote: GW is once again dropping the ball on communication. People are perfectly willing to understand a delay, especially these days. What they aren't willing to understand is the total radio silence. Seriously, even a statement acknowledging the problem and saying 'we're working on it' would go a long way in promoting good will with the community.
Ehhh...think of all the times when people have said here that "Covid isn't an acceptable excuse" of late with GW's stuff.
tneva82 wrote: Well know and know. Speculation and rumours. Did gw ever say when dragons would be coming? We know that even pre-covia gw could wait months after codex for new kits telling only they come "real soon".
the days of months long waits after a codex release for new kits ended with 6th edition. you occasionally see things where they'll release a special box (ala the sisters, orks and upcoming black templars boxes) but beyond that you didn't really see it. yes space marines got a slwoed release but that was in conjection with a slow drip feed of releases coinciding with the supplements.
Oopooooh really? Then how come after sister codex was launched on it's own I still had literally months to wait?
Get your facts straight.
I was mighty pissed when some of the absolute CORE units like Imagifier were months after codex was out on solo release. I could not even play my sub faction properly until months after codex was out because lack of imagifier. Also no zephyrim/seraphim solo box. And immolator.
NinthMusketeer wrote: GW is once again dropping the ball on communication. People are perfectly willing to understand a delay, especially these days. What they aren't willing to understand is the total radio silence. Seriously, even a statement acknowledging the problem and saying 'we're working on it' would go a long way in promoting good will with the community.
Ehhh...think of all the times when people have said here that "Covid isn't an acceptable excuse" of late with GW's stuff.
I don't think it has escaped the rest of the world that the British aren't content with such provincial problems as Covid when they can pile on even more disasters, but let's not worry about people's acceptance of a speculative announcement before GW is even willing to communicate any problems to us. NinthMusketeer has a positive outlook on its reception, you... not so much. You know a good way to find out for sure? GW could say something on the matter.
That, as quoted, is the problem. They're not even trying. And that is something that we know for sure doesn't help customer relations.
I don't think it has escaped the rest of the world that the British aren't content with such provincial problems as Covid when they can pile on even more disasters, but let's not worry about people's acceptance of a speculative announcement before GW is even willing to communicate any problems to us. NinthMusketeer has a positive outlook on its reception, you... not so much. You know a good way to find out for sure? GW could say something on the matter.
That, as quoted, is the problem. They're not even trying. And that is something that we know for sure doesn't help customer relations.
Ehh...part of the issue, at least for me, is that we've got the assumption of this delay having been significant at this point. They weren't going to drop SCE and Kruleboyz with each other. It just wasn't going to happen.
It could be that we're "only" a week or so back from when the preorders were intended to happen for SCE. We just had the Kruleboyz drop within the past few weeks and last week was the remaining 40k Ork releases.
That's why I'm not terribly irked about there being no communication just yet. It's not like they announced the stuff for preorder, then it never materialized. We just had a vaguely nebulous idea of when it would be coming.
I see your point, but at the other end of the spectrum we had a roadmap as early as July that placed a Chaos battletome in October. It's October now, and we haven't seen the models yet for the Order battletome that was supposed to come out in August.
That battletome already saw a delay until September, which GW acknowledged at the time of planned release. No mention of models, so the default assumption would have been with or shortly after the battletome. Which didn't happen.
There's a lot of uncertainty here and the problem is we really can't tell. Yes, pre-order announcement might happen on Sunday. Or Sunday night we sit here and say, hey, not this time around, maybe the Sunday after. It could go on for some time, or happen quickly. Right now we are dealing with the issue that neither GW's actual announcement has been true, nor assumptions based on GW's default way of releasing army books and associated models. So while we can of course be patient and hope for the best (and it's not like we can do anything else at the moment) we are in a situation where we are completely in the dark about the Sigmarine model release. As tight lipped as GW tends to be, that is absolutely not a normal situation. It's not too much to ask of a company to offer the customers some reassurance, even if it's just to acknowledge that they don't know any better than we do for the time being.
GW has for months now promoted this release and influenced customer expectations. In my opinion it is very questionable to cease engaging in that at a time when those expectations go off the rails.
If it was planned all along for the release to come months after the tome, the point I made about a lack of communication remains completely valid. Not sure how that acts as a counter-argument; if anything it reinforces that a lack of communication generates ill will regardless.
Would some people not be satisfied? Sure, but if I meant that *literally* everyone would tolerate it I would have said "literally eveyone".
NinthMusketeer wrote: If it was planned all along for the release to come months after the tome, the point I made about a lack of communication remains completely valid. Not sure how that acts as a counter-argument; if anything it reinforces that a lack of communication generates ill will regardless.
Would some people not be satisfied? Sure, but if I meant that *literally* everyone would tolerate it I would have said "literally eveyone".
IT's a catch 22.
If they were to say we have a delay due to container shortages, shipping issues, customs, death of a cat or whatever you know there would be just as many loud on the forum people who would screem that a real company would "Figure it out". Worse yet if they get the problem figured out and then post that we are 3-4 week behind due to xyz and give a new date, what happens when the next issue rises up and it becomes 5-6 weeks? Same angry minority.
Suggest done if those complaining go look up the shipping/port situation right now. Hint:it’s bad.
Once you’re stuff is on a ship then that’s it, it’s on it and no amount of money is going to get it moving faster.
Gw probably isn’t communicating because there is little to say beyond “when it gets here” and trying to explain global shipping to customers who routinely demonstrate poor reading comprehension.
I imagine it’s panic stations because GW needs new releases but can also fall back on other sales whereas FLGS very much rely on new releases to drive sales.
NinthMusketeer wrote: If it was planned all along for the release to come months after the tome, the point I made about a lack of communication remains completely valid. Not sure how that acts as a counter-argument; if anything it reinforces that a lack of communication generates ill will regardless.
While we’d previously hoped you’d be poring over pages of gryph-based content in the new Stormcast Eternals battletome this month, not even Sigmar’s chosen are immune to the ongoing global disruption. Rest assured that the Stormcast Eternals and Orruk Warclans battletomes will both be available to pre-order in September.
It feels a lot longer, IMO, since we got Dominion first.
BrianDavion wrote: at the very least they should release the non-dragon stuff and then say "there have been some issues with the dragons but we hope to have them soon"
Or, to be even more GW - release the non-dragon stuff, and say nothing about the dragon stuff until they're ready/able/willing to release the dragon stuff, at which point no mention of a delay will be made...
But only because they determined that approach on a random table. For the next delay, a new roll is made.
BrianDavion wrote: ok, at this point GW really owes AOS players a god damned answer, we should begin a facebook posting campaign to at least get them to address this long delay
Are people really pretending not to know what the delay is? Like seriously guys. You know what the problem is.
We know there is a delay. We can speculate and feel good about our chance of guessing right as to why there is a delay. However we don't actually know the cause of the delay.
You all know it's because the whole planet is a trash fire.
drbored wrote: Why would GW tell us anything when the result will be the same?
It's like the fandom is the crying kids in the back and the parents are driving cross-country.
"We get there when we get there!"
Because not communicating with your costumers is a dick move and a sure way to upset the fanbase. Just look at Cursed City.
Also man, is it just me or does every single GW defender ever feel some inner need to compare everyone he disagrees with to crying/angry/entitled children?
drbored wrote: Why would GW tell us anything when the result will be the same?
It's like the fandom is the crying kids in the back and the parents are driving cross-country.
"We get there when we get there!"
Because not communicating with your costumers is a dick move and a sure way to upset the fanbase. Just look at Cursed City.
Also man, is it just me or does every single GW defender ever feel some inner need to compare everyone he disagrees with to crying/angry/entitled children?
Until you realize that Forums are a "Special Place". Not every gamer joins a forum, most don't bother, or have no use for forums as they play with their friends and local shop players and don't concern themselves with tournaments or the "Global Community". The reason we see so much Rage and Angst online are from people who use this as their primary sounding board. GW has so little concern for forums because they know that a majority of their customer base has not heard of DakkaDakka or any of the other sites. So even if everyone on here got together and stopped buying GW for a week they probably wouldn't notice it. But if DakkaDakka is where you get all your information from, you'd think GW should be personally calling each of us and tearfully thanking us for our patience while starring at our torches and pitchforks.
They have said what they are going to say. As Kan posted above from their August 23rd announcement. They don't need to justify anything to us. If you still don't like it then stop buying GW. It's been said plenty of times. Yes we can voice our displeasure that we are not informed, but they have chosen not to listen and are still doing fine monetarily without your purchases.
drbored wrote: Why would GW tell us anything when the result will be the same?
It's like the fandom is the crying kids in the back and the parents are driving cross-country.
"We get there when we get there!"
Because not communicating with your costumers is a dick move and a sure way to upset the fanbase. Just look at Cursed City.
Also man, is it just me or does every single GW defender ever feel some inner need to compare everyone he disagrees with to crying/angry/entitled children?
Until you realize that Forums are a "Special Place". Not every gamer joins a forum, most don't bother, or have no use for forums as they play with their friends and local shop players and don't concern themselves with tournaments or the "Global Community". The reason we see so much Rage and Angst online are from people who use this as their primary sounding board. GW has so little concern for forums because they know that a majority of their customer base has not heard of DakkaDakka or any of the other sites. So even if everyone on here got together and stopped buying GW for a week they probably wouldn't notice it. But if DakkaDakka is where you get all your information from, you'd think GW should be personally calling each of us and tearfully thanking us for our patience while starring at our torches and pitchforks.
They have said what they are going to say. As Kan posted above from their August 23rd announcement. They don't need to justify anything to us. If you still don't like it then stop buying GW. It's been said plenty of times. Yes we can voice our displeasure that we are not informed, but they have chosen not to listen and are still doing fine monetarily without your purchases.
You're acting like companies aren't expected to, y'know, communicate with their consumers.
drbored wrote: Why would GW tell us anything when the result will be the same?
It's like the fandom is the crying kids in the back and the parents are driving cross-country.
"We get there when we get there!"
Because not communicating with your costumers is a dick move and a sure way to upset the fanbase. Just look at Cursed City.
Also man, is it just me or does every single GW defender ever feel some inner need to compare everyone he disagrees with to crying/angry/entitled children?
Until you realize that Forums are a "Special Place". Not every gamer joins a forum, most don't bother, or have no use for forums as they play with their friends and local shop players and don't concern themselves with tournaments or the "Global Community". The reason we see so much Rage and Angst online are from people who use this as their primary sounding board. GW has so little concern for forums because they know that a majority of their customer base has not heard of DakkaDakka or any of the other sites. So even if everyone on here got together and stopped buying GW for a week they probably wouldn't notice it. But if DakkaDakka is where you get all your information from, you'd think GW should be personally calling each of us and tearfully thanking us for our patience while starring at our torches and pitchforks.
They have said what they are going to say. As Kan posted above from their August 23rd announcement. They don't need to justify anything to us. If you still don't like it then stop buying GW. It's been said plenty of times. Yes we can voice our displeasure that we are not informed, but they have chosen not to listen and are still doing fine monetarily without your purchases.
You're acting like companies aren't expected to, y'know, communicate with their consumers.
They have communicated, it's out of their hands. But you cannot communicate with two year olds who continue to rant that they want their toys NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW. The best thing a parent can do is walk away so they don't get pulled down to that level.
Seriously I know I have a mountain of shame that could be worked on for many lifetimes, as most people here also have that problem too. Nows a great time to catch back up on those old projects. Soon enough GW will be able to release everything and then the constant groaning will switch back to "They are releasing things too quickly"or "I don't have the money to get it because they didn't give me enough warning to save up."
No they haven't communicated. A simple "yeah guys, we where hoping to get these to you by now, we're as annoyed as you are" statement would go a long way
BrianDavion wrote: No they haven't communicated. A simple "yeah guys, we where hoping to get these to you by now, we're as annoyed as you are" statement would go a long way
NinthMusketeer wrote: GW is once again dropping the ball on communication. People are perfectly willing to understand a delay, especially these days. What they aren't willing to understand is the total radio silence. Seriously, even a statement acknowledging the problem and saying 'we're working on it' would go a long way in promoting good will with the community.
People are generally more willing to accept bad news is they are told the truth.
Radio silence, as you put it, is just more likely to foment rumours/conspiracy theories ("Their entire supply of Sigmarine Dragons was hijacked by Somalian pirates at the behest of the President of Cuba!").
NinthMusketeer wrote: GW is once again dropping the ball on communication. People are perfectly willing to understand a delay, especially these days. What they aren't willing to understand is the total radio silence. Seriously, even a statement acknowledging the problem and saying 'we're working on it' would go a long way in promoting good will with the community.
People are generally more willing to accept bad news is they are told the truth.
Radio silence, as you put it, is just more likely to foment rumours/conspiracy theories ("Their entire supply of Sigmarine Dragons was hijacked by Somalian pirates at the behest of the President of Cuba!").
NinthMusketeer wrote: GW is once again dropping the ball on communication. People are perfectly willing to understand a delay, especially these days. What they aren't willing to understand is the total radio silence. Seriously, even a statement acknowledging the problem and saying 'we're working on it' would go a long way in promoting good will with the community.
People are generally more willing to accept bad news is they are told the truth.
Radio silence, as you put it, is just more likely to foment rumours/conspiracy theories ("Their entire supply of Sigmarine Dragons was hijacked by Somalian pirates at the behest of the President of Cuba!").
a much simpler reason, by accident GW printed the productions cost on the boxes, so they needed to order new ones and does not have decided if it is worth to make an expensive print in Europe or wait the 6 months it takes for new ones to arrive from China
Geifer wrote: I see your point, but at the other end of the spectrum we had a roadmap as early as July that placed a Chaos battletome in October. It's October now, and we haven't seen the models yet for the Order battletome that was supposed to come out in August.
That battletome already saw a delay until September, which GW acknowledged at the time of planned release. No mention of models, so the default assumption would have been with or shortly after the battletome. Which didn't happen.
There's a lot of uncertainty here and the problem is we really can't tell. Yes, pre-order announcement might happen on Sunday. Or Sunday night we sit here and say, hey, not this time around, maybe the Sunday after. It could go on for some time, or happen quickly. Right now we are dealing with the issue that neither GW's actual announcement has been true, nor assumptions based on GW's default way of releasing army books and associated models. So while we can of course be patient and hope for the best (and it's not like we can do anything else at the moment) we are in a situation where we are completely in the dark about the Sigmarine model release. As tight lipped as GW tends to be, that is absolutely not a normal situation. It's not too much to ask of a company to offer the customers some reassurance, even if it's just to acknowledge that they don't know any better than we do for the time being.
GW has for months now promoted this release and influenced customer expectations. In my opinion it is very questionable to cease engaging in that at a time when those expectations go off the rails.
Well GW has already stated the chaos book comes "sometime this year". So we know it's not october.
It's not that GW doesn't say anything about it. They just aren't committing to specific date(which seeing the previous month they claimed had to be broken. Don't make promises you can't keep is something parents teach kids. Maybe GW finally learned from parents wisdom finally)
So we know that the Chaos book is coming sometimes this year, but I have not seen anything else on the missing units except for "soon".
If "sometimes" and "soon" is enough for some people this is ok, but I don't think it is enough communication with the community for the first armies released in a new Edition
I know the community is having double standards for GW and other companies, but usually if other games only have a "sometime" or "soon" for the next release it is already rated dead and dropped by the community because of no support from the company
I just love the idea that the first thing Fidel would do after rising from his grave would be to say: "Welp, I am back to life. Time to play with way too expensive miniatures !"
Think he plays with Che and José Martí every Sundays ?
More specific time would be nice to have but then again if GW says "this day" and then they can't deliver how is that better?
In case you haven't heard: When product goes to ship then that's that. GW has absolutely zero control over it. Short of buying the whole damn ship and every item in it so they can do with it as they please. You think that's realistic solution? GW buying every cargo ship and everything they carry along their items? Lol.
I prefer GW not give promises they can't be sure of holding. Being told "preorder on this day" and then not getting them for preorder is worst.
They don't have to say why or even accept any responsibility. Acknowledging there's an issue, saying they aren't happy either, and saying they will let us know as soon as they can would generate good will for barely any effort. Absolutely some people would complain--but they are complaining either way, there's no loss.
No ones asking for GW to commit to a time table, we're simply saying "it's obvious they didn't hit their planned release window, we'd LIKE to heear from GW"
I can understand why GW is being quiet. I read somewhere that the problem is that their entire supply of Sigmarine Dragons was hijacked by Somalian pirates at the behest of the President of Cuba while waiting for the Egyptians to clear that ship stuck in the Suez Canal. Obviously they're afraid we'll start buying cut rate dragons from Somalian Ebay.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Because not communicating with your costumers is a dick move and a sure way to upset the fanbase.
Not communicating clearly with your costumers means that you may end up with the wrong costumes for the show or event you're trying to put on. Definitely a poor choice, but you're only shooting yourself in the foot (possibly while you've got it stuck in your mouth...).
Not communicating with your customers is definitely a poor look, especially when - as others have stated - all that needs to be acknowledged at this time is that there's a delay, and that they'll pop another post up once things have firmed up regarding the release.
BrianDavion wrote: No ones asking for GW to commit to a time table, we're simply saying "it's obvious they didn't hit their planned release window, we'd LIKE to heear from GW"
Well GW has already said the chaos book isn't coming on initial time after all.
You want hourly updates? "Now it's on this and that lat/lon"
NinthMusketeer wrote: They don't have to say why or even accept any responsibility. Acknowledging there's an issue, saying they aren't happy either, and saying they will let us know as soon as they can would generate good will for barely any effort. Absolutely some people would complain--but they are complaining either way, there's no loss.
As you’ve admitted people will complain no matter what. So what is their upside? Good will? Any time GW tries for good will they get hammered. When the pandemic breaks out and they released a gaming store only model people and that they didn’t get one because some guy on eBay had 20 of them and their local shop got 2. When they do a free model with every xxx dollar you spend it “Why the is it yet another space marine or another Ultramarine?”.
Just like RIGHT NOW, people are complaining that GW isn’t saying things how I want them to or when I want them to or even bothering to come to DakkaDakka and apologize.
Get over it.
You want them to Take the time to say they won’t make the deadline. How about you let them focus their energy on figuring out how to get around all the obstacles with worldwide shipping being a cluster , not being able to get supplies because once again worldwide shipping from their suppliers is a cluster labor shortages because of social distancing, or at least here in the states because the government is paying people more money to sit at home and do nothing than to go and work. The employees they do have are tasked with specific roles, you are not going to see them have everyone load up their cars and start door to door delivery of kits. Why because someone would get their kit hours or days ahead of another person and then there would be the same and moaning coming from a small community.
GW might be the biggest dog in the wargaming industry, but if they were to go to a shipping company like Fedex or UPS and try to flex they are going to get laughed at and sent back to play with their toys. Ports are shut down or running behind, containers for shipping are next to impossible to get at a reasonable rate, and even if the boat that brings the stock to the US makes it on time GW releases product across the globe at a reasonably simultaneous time. The SCE dragons may have landed in The US, but because Australia is still two weeks out they are going to hold back everything so there’s less hurt.
They stated in an off hand way that even they are not immune to the effects of the pandemic, do you actually think they will say that it is specifically because of xxx? They will get crucified by all the armchair quarterbacks saying well that’s an easy fix, or I work in that industry and that answers a load of .
It’s a lose-lose situation for them to try and do the “Damage Control” that people are demanding. It’s just simply out of their hands. When it’s out of your hands and you try to explain and give answers and something else gets in your way and you have to explain that, then you start looking incompetent. GW doesn’t answer to us. GW answers to the stockholders. They need to be working on what they will say at the next shareholders meeting when and if they don’t make a new major increase in sales. Maybe you own shares, but unless you have enough to equate to more than a few percentage share of the whole your voice is meaningless.
Most everyone on this forum lives where they have a right to free speech and a right to ask questions, but I don’t know anyone here who has the authority to demand answers.
tneva82 wrote: In case you haven't heard: When product goes to ship then that's that. GW has absolutely zero control over it.
what is your source for the shipping problem?
Duh. We know it's a shipping problem because the ship never made it to Britain.
=>
Kid_Kyoto wrote: I can understand why GW is being quiet. I read somewhere that the problem is that their entire supply of Sigmarine Dragons was hijacked by Somalian pirates at the behest of the President of Cuba while waiting for the Egyptians to clear that ship stuck in the Suez Canal. Obviously they're afraid we'll start buying cut rate dragons from Somalian Ebay.
NinthMusketeer wrote: They don't have to say why or even accept any responsibility. Acknowledging there's an issue, saying they aren't happy either, and saying they will let us know as soon as they can would generate good will for barely any effort. Absolutely some people would complain--but they are complaining either way, there's no loss.
As you’ve admitted people will complain no matter what. So what is their upside? Good will? Any time GW tries for good will they get hammered. When the pandemic breaks out and they released a gaming store only model people and that they didn’t get one because some guy on eBay had 20 of them and their local shop got 2. When they do a free model with every xxx dollar you spend it “Why the is it yet another space marine or another Ultramarine?”.
Just like RIGHT NOW, people are complaining that GW isn’t saying things how I want them to or when I want them to or even bothering to come to DakkaDakka and apologize.
Get over it.
You want them to Take the time to say they won’t make the deadline. How about you let them focus their energy on figuring out how to get around all the obstacles with worldwide shipping being a cluster , not being able to get supplies because once again worldwide shipping from their suppliers is a cluster labor shortages because of social distancing, or at least here in the states because the government is paying people more money to sit at home and do nothing than to go and work. The employees they do have are tasked with specific roles, you are not going to see them have everyone load up their cars and start door to door delivery of kits. Why because someone would get their kit hours or days ahead of another person and then there would be the same and moaning coming from a small community.
GW might be the biggest dog in the wargaming industry, but if they were to go to a shipping company like Fedex or UPS and try to flex they are going to get laughed at and sent back to play with their toys. Ports are shut down or running behind, containers for shipping are next to impossible to get at a reasonable rate, and even if the boat that brings the stock to the US makes it on time GW releases product across the globe at a reasonably simultaneous time. The SCE dragons may have landed in The US, but because Australia is still two weeks out they are going to hold back everything so there’s less hurt.
They stated in an off hand way that even they are not immune to the effects of the pandemic, do you actually think they will say that it is specifically because of xxx? They will get crucified by all the armchair quarterbacks saying well that’s an easy fix, or I work in that industry and that answers a load of .
It’s a lose-lose situation for them to try and do the “Damage Control” that people are demanding. It’s just simply out of their hands. When it’s out of your hands and you try to explain and give answers and something else gets in your way and you have to explain that, then you start looking incompetent. GW doesn’t answer to us. GW answers to the stockholders. They need to be working on what they will say at the next shareholders meeting when and if they don’t make a new major increase in sales. Maybe you own shares, but unless you have enough to equate to more than a few percentage share of the whole your voice is meaningless.
Most everyone on this forum lives where they have a right to free speech and a right to ask questions, but I don’t know anyone here who has the authority to demand answers.
Okay, I can tell that you feel strongly on the matter. Certainly I have been misinterpreted, as the position you are responding to is not the one I expressed. At any rate, this is just too hyperbolic for reasonable discussion so maybe we can dial it back.
BrianDavion wrote: No ones asking for GW to commit to a time table, we're simply saying "it's obvious they didn't hit their planned release window, we'd LIKE to heear from GW"
Well GW has already said the chaos book isn't coming on initial time after all.
You want hourly updates? "Now it's on this and that lat/lon"
Man we don't even have monthly updates, where you pulling hourly from?
If anything, the need to resort to straw men to form a counter argument highlights the validity of the criticism.
@ninthMusketeer, Please don't feel like that is all directed at you, it's mostly the last two-three pages of people with the same complaints over and over. GW have responded as much as they are going to. I've been on the bandwagon before, but really it is getting silly now. They don't owe us an answers and the constant complaints are not going to get us anywhere. Lets get back to the News and Rumors (of upcoming releases, not what they are doing behind closed doors) and enjoy the HHHHHHobby instead of just venting angst.
I have seen a lot of people raise reasonable points that it would be better if GW issued some manner of communication. There's no angst over when we get the miniatures; people are irked at GW for not engaging with the community. Doubly so, because history has shown that everyone wins when they do. It is about news and GWs willingness to deliver it, so I hardly see it as off topic.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I have seen a lot of people raise reasonable points that it would be better if GW issued some manner of communication. There's no angst over when we get the miniatures; people are irked at GW for not engaging with the community. Doubly so, because history has shown that everyone wins when they do. It is about news and GWs willingness to deliver it, so I hardly see it as off topic.
The last time this came up I said they're damned if the do, damned if they don't. They may not have anything to tell. In the world of PR, saying nothing is a lot better than saying something that can be misconstrued or twisted to fit a narrative. You guys can keep complaining, but it won't change and most of the actual community, the majority who don't come to the internet don't care about the lack if comm traffic.
You keep using the word "complaining" to deliberately paint evidence-backed criticisms as being emotional rather than thought out. If you had a valid point, you wouldn't need to do that.
NinthMusketeer wrote: You keep using the word "complaining" to deliberately paint evidence-backed criticisms as being emotional rather than thought out. If you had a valid point, you wouldn't need to do that.
To complain is to express annoyance at the state of events or situation one is in. You guys are expressing that you are annoyed at the fact GW has not communicated at all about the delays. The word fits perfectly.
Arguing semantics and trying to make us look like we don’t have a valid point .
Just send a mail to GW customer service, you'll have an answer.
For the rest of us, we just wait. Nothing else we can do in our power, can't we.
I'm not bothered, means I can focus my attention on the miniatures I have yet to build and paint.
To be honest, there are distribution troubles everywhere. Even other miniature companies have some issues with it. Some communicate, others don't. And we even had a facebook outage recently.
Just tells me we're not back to the "normal world", in the end.
Snippet from WD seems to reinforce the rumours of new Minotaurs.
(as Minotaurs are a modern, albeit ugly, kit, my personal speculation is that these are not replacements but a new, buffed variant, like Stormfiends are to Rat Ogres)
Considering how the current Minotaur models got criticized for their appearance right from the beginning I have a hard time thinking of them as generic.
What I'd like to see is a new kit that makes them look like the Bloodbowl Minotaur. Start out naked for poor (beast)man's Minotaurs with weapons like the current ones and put bits on the sprue to upgrade them with heavy armor and professionally crafted weapons for a more organized, militaristic look akin to Chaos Warriors. Maybe even some god specific bits. Not sure how likely that is, though. GW isn't all that great at providing options anymore and for every kit they get right there's another five that aren't very inspiring.
NinthMusketeer wrote: You keep using the word "complaining" to deliberately paint evidence-backed criticisms as being emotional rather than thought out. If you had a valid point, you wouldn't need to do that.
To complain is to express annoyance at the state of events or situation one is in. You guys are expressing that you are annoyed at the fact GW has not communicated at all about the delays. The word fits perfectly.
Arguing semantics and trying to make us look like we don’t have a valid point .
Nah, I'm quite happy about the delays. I have previously expressed that I wished GW would ease up and slow down on the relentless release pace. While this isn't what I had in mind I am still glad things have slowed. I am just also capable of understanding there is a communication issue separate from my experience. I suppose the ultimate error in this discussion was mine, for assuming you were applying a degree of intellectual depth to the matter when clearly you have chosen not to.
But hey, you tell businesses that communication with their customers is bad and they should stop. Obviously you know more than they do.
NinthMusketeer wrote: You keep using the word "complaining" to deliberately paint evidence-backed criticisms as being emotional rather than thought out. If you had a valid point, you wouldn't need to do that.
To complain is to express annoyance at the state of events or situation one is in. You guys are expressing that you are annoyed at the fact GW has not communicated at all about the delays. The word fits perfectly.
Arguing semantics and trying to make us look like we don’t have a valid point .
Nah, I'm quite happy about the delays. I have previously expressed that I wished GW would ease up and slow down on the relentless release pace. While this isn't what I had in mind I am still glad things have slowed. I am just also capable of understanding there is a communication issue separate from my experience. I suppose the ultimate error in this discussion was mine, for assuming you were applying a degree of intellectual depth to the matter when clearly you have chosen not to.
But hey, you tell businesses that communication with their customers is bad and they should stop. Obviously you know more than they do.
Thanks for joining the Ignore list. I wasn't directing any attacks against you but you seem to be directing the attack directly back at me. As you said, the ultimate error was on your end, and like they say about your assuming .....I'll leave it there.
NinthMusketeer wrote: You keep using the word "complaining" to deliberately paint evidence-backed criticisms as being emotional rather than thought out. If you had a valid point, you wouldn't need to do that.
To complain is to express annoyance at the state of events or situation one is in. You guys are expressing that you are annoyed at the fact GW has not communicated at all about the delays. The word fits perfectly.
Arguing semantics and trying to make us look like we don’t have a valid point .
Nah, I'm quite happy about the delays. I have previously expressed that I wished GW would ease up and slow down on the relentless release pace. While this isn't what I had in mind I am still glad things have slowed. I am just also capable of understanding there is a communication issue separate from my experience. I suppose the ultimate error in this discussion was mine, for assuming you were applying a degree of intellectual depth to the matter when clearly you have chosen not to.
But hey, you tell businesses that communication with their customers is bad and they should stop. Obviously you know more than they do.
Thanks for joining the Ignore list. I wasn't directing any attacks against you but you seem to be directing the attack directly back at me. As you said, the ultimate error was on your end, and like they say about your assuming .....I'll leave it there.
NinthMusketeer wrote: You keep using the word "complaining" to deliberately paint evidence-backed criticisms as being emotional rather than thought out. If you had a valid point, you wouldn't need to do that.
Are people not upset emotionally about something that we all know for a fact is standard operating procedures for businesses in the current era?
Frustrated or annoyed perhaps. But even being happy with the situation does not prevent me from seeing GWs radio silence for the mistake it is.
It seems like some individuals are only comprehending a criticism in relation to personal emotion and do not consider that they can be made independently. Perhaps that is something they themselves are unable to do; rarely adopting a position themselves which isn't emotionally driven. So they apply the same logic to other people which while flawed in this instance is not an inherently bad way to go.
But that probably isn't true, it's me assuming the best. More likely they fully understand the nuance and simply want to troll rather than have discussion in good faith.
Well, if they're minotaurs, I don't think they'll be intended to be part of the beastmen with their current background : in AoS, they still hate civilization, so would be weird if they "came from Varanspire hellforges".
That's why my bet is more on ogroids...if the story's intention was to tease new miniatures and not just adding a lil flavor like flying shark predators for the Kharadron Overlords.
Honestly - feels like every GW effort for Lizardmen since the initial creation in 5th and update in 6th.
Other armies get pages of magical items, LM get a handful with *sometimes* powerful but situational effects and mostly once per game.
Ummh. What artefacts slaves to darkness got? Sob got none. They got 2 battalions' 1 grand strategy and was it 3 battletactic. Grand stratngy sucked, battletactics situational.
Honestly - feels like every GW effort for Lizardmen since the initial creation in 5th and update in 6th.
Other armies get pages of magical items, LM get a handful with *sometimes* powerful but situational effects and mostly once per game.
Ummh. What artefacts slaves to darkness got? Sob got none. They got 2 battalions' 1 grand strategy and was it 3 battletactic. Grand stratngy sucked, battletactics situational.
This was bigger level of wd update so far.
I'm speaking in broad generalizations throughout the entire history of Lizardmen/Seraphon - I'm not comparing this specific AoS 3.0 White Dwarf update to another specific AoS 3.0 White Dwarf update .
In general, in my opinion, GW likes to give Lizardmen (and now Seraphon) items and powers that function once per game, and/or are very situational.
This is merely an observation based on my limited knowledge of this one particular army and is no way an attempt to rate their relative power against any other army or to take away from any other armies who may rightly claim to have more one-use items and even more situational abilities.
Please enjoy your time on the Internet.
You are missing point of these wd updates. But that's all right. Not everybody is able to look beyond own faction and just narrow mindedly wants his faction get more than others and even when get that still complain.
tneva82 wrote: Not everybody is able to look beyond own faction and just narrow mindedly wants his faction get more than others and even when get that still complain.
Sir, i think you're confusing Lizardmen players with Marine players.
Honestly - feels like every GW effort for Lizardmen since the initial creation in 5th and update in 6th.
Other armies get pages of magical items, LM get a handful with *sometimes* powerful but situational effects and mostly once per game.
Ummh. What artefacts slaves to darkness got? Sob got none. They got 2 battalions' 1 grand strategy and was it 3 battletactic. Grand stratngy sucked, battletactics situational.
This was bigger level of wd update so far.
I'm speaking in broad generalizations throughout the entire history of Lizardmen/Seraphon - I'm not comparing this specific AoS 3.0 White Dwarf update to another specific AoS 3.0 White Dwarf update .
In general, in my opinion, GW likes to give Lizardmen (and now Seraphon) items and powers that function once per game, and/or are very situational.
This is merely an observation based on my limited knowledge of this one particular army and is no way an attempt to rate their relative power against any other army or to take away from any other armies who may rightly claim to have more one-use items and even more situational abilities.
Please enjoy your time on the Internet.
You obviously haven't been following Seraphon for the last couple of years then. The most recent battletome is widely considered to one of the most flavourful books in AoS with a wide variety of extremely potent abilities. Unfortunately they went a little overboard in some cases so the book is a bit too powerful. A quick of the artefacts found just three once per battle abilities out of 29 command traits or artefacts in the book.
Sucks the kit people really want looks like it will be pushed to 2022... BUT I would rather that then it be released earlier but each store only gets 1-2 boxes.
I'm not sure we can read that out of the article. There's a shipping problem, yes, and that commonly means China is involved. Especially with GW launching releases in the past while accepting delays in one country or another.
However, it's conceivable that so many countries were affected this time around that they don't want to start selling the dragons where they are available.
It also doesn't make a whole lot of sense for GW to produce the dragons of all things in China. They are for all we know a normal model kit that is not easily distinguished from other kits the way terrain kits are, being a wholly different category of model.
There's not enough information to make that claim. Or outright dismiss it, for that matter.
It's like uk is island...there's for example this little place called "australia". Does australia gw have own casting equipment? If not the shipping container issue affects goods uk to ausstralia same as others. Ditto america, new zealand. Cargo to eu delaved as well
I don't get it, how does the online webstore works? is there a main HQ in each country or everyone in the world depends on UK?
Because I don't get why they just have an american warehouse for all the american countries, instead of having to share my waiting times with the international store.
CMLR wrote: I don't get it, how does the online webstore works? is there a main HQ in each country or everyone in the world depends on UK?
Because I don't get why they just have an american warehouse for all the american countries, instead of having to share my waiting times with the international store.
I presume that costs more money than shipping it all over everytime.
CMLR wrote: I don't get it, how does the online webstore works? is there a main HQ in each country or everyone in the world depends on UK?
There are regional HQs, yes. But production (for most things, including almost all models, terrain being the only typical exception) is in Nottingham.
Because I don't get why they just have an american warehouse for all the american countries, instead of having to share my waiting times with the international store.
CMLR wrote: I don't get it, how does the online webstore works? is there a main HQ in each country or everyone in the world depends on UK?
There are regional HQs, yes. But production (for most things, including almost all models, terrain being the only typical exception) is in Nottingham.
Because I don't get why they just have an american warehouse for all the american countries, instead of having to share my waiting times with the international store.
There is a warehouse in the US. And you aren't.
But I'm in México. It's kinda dumb to wait for a package to cross the pond if I could take one from the States or Canada instead. Kinda the same goes for the entire Americas. Third world problems I guess.
His foot looks like it has a terrible mold line. I can't imagine it's two separate pieces that they joined together...
I don't think it's edge highlighting either
CMLR wrote: I don't get it, how does the online webstore works? is there a main HQ in each country or everyone in the world depends on UK?
There are regional HQs, yes. But production (for most things, including almost all models, terrain being the only typical exception) is in Nottingham.
Because I don't get why they just have an american warehouse for all the american countries, instead of having to share my waiting times with the international store.
There is a warehouse in the US. And you aren't.
But I'm in México. It's kinda dumb to wait for a package to cross the pond if I could take one from the States or Canada instead. Kinda the same goes for the entire Americas. Third world problems I guess.
OK...? Location tags aside (I have no knowledge of where you really are, or any particular reason to care), I could see an argument for Mexico. Though import/export rules, laws, tariffs, and shipping costs that I'm not aware of could easily counter that.
It is definitely not the same for 'the entire Americas.' Shipping to the US and then out to various parts of South America is almost certainly not worth the cost, even if the market for Warhammer products exists there in sufficient numbers. GW would certainly know what kind of distribution system makes the most sense in terms of cost and market.
His foot looks like it has a terrible mold line. I can't imagine it's two separate pieces that they joined together...
I don't think it's edge highlighting either
You're talking about the line along the top of the foot? Sigmarine boots are not round. They have a ridge there. A highlight should definitely go there according to 'Eavy Metal style, whether a mold line runs along it or not.
However I tend to think the mold lines would be on the side of the leg rather than the front and back.
CMLR wrote: I don't get it, how does the online webstore works? is there a main HQ in each country or everyone in the world depends on UK?
There are regional HQs, yes. But production (for most things, including almost all models, terrain being the only typical exception) is in Nottingham.
Because I don't get why they just have an american warehouse for all the american countries, instead of having to share my waiting times with the international store.
There is a warehouse in the US. And you aren't.
But I'm in México. It's kinda dumb to wait for a package to cross the pond if I could take one from the States or Canada instead. Kinda the same goes for the entire Americas. Third world problems I guess.
OK...? Location tags aside (I have no knowledge of where you really are, or any particular reason to care), I could see an argument for Mexico. Though import/export rules, laws, tariffs, and shipping costs that I'm not aware of could easily counter that.
It is definitely not the same for 'the entire Americas.' Shipping to the US and then out to various parts of South America is almost certainly not worth the cost, even if the market for Warhammer products exists there in sufficient numbers. GW would certainly know what kind of distribution system makes the most sense in terms of cost and market.
Thanks to [Redacted topics] over the last four years, things like shipping and receiving to and from the central and south Americas are an absolute dumpster fire. In addition I have heard that things in that area of the country where their US Warehouse are a mess covid wise, even worse than other larger population errors due to [more redacted topics] and viral spread. In the states, for those who don't know finding workers right now is basically impossible. At my job we've had a position open for the last 9 months, in which we've increased the slalary four times in order to entice folks to come and work. We just filled the position about three weeks ago. So it's possible that shipping from the US just isn't possible at the current time.
Boltboyz are expensive for 3 minis, Praetors cost the same so I guess that’s now the price for 3 man sets (Annihilators aside). Looks like Anasta Malkorion goes on order this weekend (1 week early) she’s on the price list anyway and if she’s there it should mean that retailers will get some stock as direct only minis don’t go on the price list.
Have to say the prices seem fine, after the nonsense that was the 40k starter set. 10 Vindictors for £31.5 is good value. Not better than ebay, but not too far off given everything.
Boltboys can't be same sprues. As for vindictors yea almost same sprues bu' at least for price of starter you get double the vindictors.
While you could try splittrng with somebody for orruks...you are unlikely to get more than halved price so at best you just get extra heroes which you don't need more than 1 really(even 1 is suspious use atm) and at least i have found getting rid of kruleboyz bit hard(not helped by gutrippas not comlng with command).
So vindictors isn't worst deal gw has done. Way more sensible than with necron warriors. It's basically "2 free knight arcanum if you can find somebody to split 2 warrior starters" and knight arcanum's aren't something you want to spam. Certainly i already have 3 already so if i want 10 more vindictors isn't on my cards
Gutrippas you would be getting half the price but no command plus free shaman. If you combo with reqular box that has 2 musicians and spare banner from somewhere(ardboyz good) you can get basically 2 boxes for 1.5 price. So kruelboyz can find use for some though realistically not more than 3 boxes. Not many need more than 60 gutrippas
NinthMusketeer wrote: Knight Arcanum isn't something you want even one of, so it's kinda a dead mini or conversion fodder. Pot shaman, on the other hand...
NinthMusketeer wrote: Knight Arcanum isn't something you want even one of, so it's kinda a dead mini or conversion fodder. Pot shaman, on the other hand...
whats wrong with the knight Arcanum?
Costs more than Knight Incantor, is just straight up worse and has no free Dispel Scroll.
Worse melee weapon(4+ to wound vs 3+), hard to cast native spell and while special rule is interesting suffers from lack of range and aos3 nerfed damage dealing endless spells.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Knight Arcanum isn't something you want even one of, so it's kinda a dead mini or conversion fodder. Pot shaman, on the other hand...
whats wrong with the knight Arcanum?
For 10pts more (I think) you can take Lord Arcanum with better melee, more useful spell and the ability to stop one friendly model per turn from dying vs just D3 MW spell and weak ability that keeps ESpells from moving with 3".
If you're on a budget, Knight Incantor is 20pts cheaper and auto-dispells one spell per game.
It goes beyond the point cost; the Knight Arcanum has no role. The army has other wizards, the army has other (better) spells to deal ranged MWs, and stopping predatory endless spell movement is so niche as to be useless let alone at such a completely impotent range. It could be board wide and the hero would still not be worth taking. Not everyone takes endless spells and of those only a small fraction are predatory.
As a design choice GW obviously wants all-thunderstike armies to be viable (which is cool IMO but that's another matter) and so they need a wizard. But I just feel like... the model could have been a Knight-Incantor in Thunderstike armour with the keyword and an extra wound as a 15 point upgrade. That would have been fine and actually done something to combat warscroll bloat.
To go full bore wishlisting, let us upgrade any non-thunderstrike to a thunderstike version for 15 points and players can CONVERT the option. Heresy I know.
Orruk players got hopes of mighty destroyer not been nerfed squashed.
The pile in during hero phase is going to be super niche situation.
Sloggoth can be now safely be bought for gits.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Sce faq mk2 arrived. They dropped lord arcanum faq q that fixed the infinite damage soak abuse was dropped and instead warscroll rules were fixed
Yikes, 55 CAD for 3 models? GW really is high up their own arse for thinking that's anywhere reasonable pricing for a unit that's in a starter set. They're one of the few things that would make me interested in potentially adding kruleboyz to my Ironjawz but at that price point, heck no.
Cross your fingers that they "might" appear in the next AoS Partworks comic release. That said it could be a year or more before that releases IF it does and IF it has cruelboyz in it
GaroRobe wrote: Yeah, and sadly you can’t pick up the dominion ones off eBay for cheap. You can pick up literally every other unit but them
Yup, unfortunately they're one of the main things making Kruleboyz a competitive subfaction so that's gonna drive up the prices or availability on stuff like eBay. I'd be fine if it was like at least 6 for 55, but 3 for models that aren't even big calvary stuff like Gore Gruntas is bonkers.
Probably late to the party but the Sigmar infantry box sets are not dual? They look individual boxed kits and some push fits?
The Lord is also 2x bigger than a normal man.
Prices are not the best either specially on the boxed kits with just 3 man
NAVARRO wrote: Probably late to the party but the Sigmar infantry box sets are not dual? They look individual boxed kits and some push fits?
The Lord is also 2x bigger than a normal man.
Prices are not the best either specially on the boxed kits with just 3 man
Aside from the halberd guards and the beefy shield boys, the prices for the infantry are surprisingly sane for 2021 GW tho?
NAVARRO wrote: Probably late to the party but the Sigmar infantry box sets are not dual? They look individual boxed kits and some push fits?
The Lord is also 2x bigger than a normal man.
Prices are not the best either specially on the boxed kits with just 3 man
Aside from the halberd guards and the beefy shield boys, the prices for the infantry are surprisingly sane for 2021 GW tho?
Yeah, the Hobgoblins are actually currently the cheapest out of 20-man infantry boxes when it comes to AoS. And the thinner Stormcast are actually a bit cheaper than the older, beefier ones. 31.50 for 10 Vindicators vs 37.50 for 10 Liberators.
Sorry but a box of judicators was packed with options and is 1 pound more? I mean you could build them with maces or swords with shields or greatmaces etc... I mean you could potentially have 2 different units from 1 box... Thats why Im surprised these are split and not dual kits but rather mono weapon 10 man box sets with less options.
If you ask me thats a downgrade in bits and flexibility and bump in price as consequence.
Furthermore that was the appeal of a multi weapon kit coming after the starter boxes, with more bits so the bump in price was ok. If its to be the same shiz as a snap fit starter whats the point?
So if I want 5 man with spears and 5 man with swords I need to buy 20!
BTW aren't the praetors the same as the Indomitus with no options?
I think GW just changed the typical release patterns for the worst again.
But I'm in México. It's kinda dumb to wait for a package to cross the pond if I could take one from the States or Canada instead. Kinda the same goes for the entire Americas. Third world problems I guess.
Yeah NAFTA would mean it makes sense to lump the US and Mexico but GW puts Mexico in the 'Rest of the World' category.
The sword boys and the spear boys are not the same unit with 2 weapon options. They're two separate units.
As for judicators being "packed", I pray to gods that none of these kits is as bad as the judicators i had to put together. literally worst kit GW released since AoS 1.0 dropped.
Glad to see it. I hope this marks a complete overhaul or even removal of the cycle allegiance ability. It doesn't mechanically represent what Nurgle armies are supposed to be. Also get rid of run & charge off Gnarlmaws because that is again completely out of line with what Nurgle armies are thematically.
Anyone else think that the Sorcerer's fly head looks a bit off on the cover of the Battletome? It's been bugging me since it was revealed, as it seems to stick out from the rest of the art like a sore thumb, even though the body fits right in.
Dysartes wrote: Anyone else think that the Sorcerer's fly head looks a bit off on the cover of the Battletome? It's been bugging me since it was revealed, as it seems to stick out from the rest of the art like a sore thumb, even though the body fits right in.
I like the one in the art better, actually. It is more hybridized instead of straight insectoid, and imo decidedly more hideous as a result.
the boc vs gsc never had anything really reliable info. Same rumour claimed one side in TS&GK box would be all new models...so either the guy puts up fake rumours along real rumours just for fun of it or he has no real info after all.
Wayland ship DDP to the EU for a flat shipping rate of £4.92 even using PayPal’s exchange rate it works out at around €85.
I have one in my cart (need a 2nd Shaman and the Boltboyz the rest is effectively free at that price) but I’m waiting until preorders on Saturday if it’s gone by then, then I wasn’t meant to get another copy.
I wonder is there any chance GW releases Combat patrol-like boxes for Age of Sigmar in 3.0. There was no announcement for Nurgle though, but I still hope they reveal it closer to Maggotkin release.
It's also disappointing they put no endless spells for Nurgle (and orks previously as well).
OokamiEq wrote: Why? Start collecting is smaller and provides lesser amount of points. With combat patrol or 2 you can already play normally.
Did you even bother to look at them? Two SC cost the same as CP, give you more minis, and much bigger discount. Hell, look at Dark Angel combat patrol, it has less minis than most start collecting - if that is desirable future to you, I have no words
The chaos warriors SC is a thing of beauty, cheap, new, amazing sculpts, more minis than Black Templar "army" box and costs 1/4 of it...
I wonder is there any chance GW releases Combat patrol-like boxes for Age of Sigmar in 3.0.
Yeah I really like the new CPs for 40k. Roughly the same discount as SC, but higher price (so more saving), plus different stuff, which is good because I've already bought all the SC40k I'll ever need. I think there's still a couple of SCAoS I might buy though, so I'm not too fussed about the AoS line switching over to CP boxes (though I wouldn't mind too much).
OokamiEq wrote: Why? Start collecting is smaller and provides lesser amount of points. With combat patrol or 2 you can already play normally.
Did you even bother to look at them? Two SC cost the same as CP, give you more minis, and much bigger discount. Hell, look at Dark Angel combat patrol, it has less minis than most start collecting - if that is desirable future to you, I have no words
The chaos warriors SC is a thing of beauty, cheap, new, amazing sculpts, more minis than Black Templar "army" box and costs 1/4 of it...
Where are you buying start collecting sets for ~£37? at full price? Likewise that's a lot of misinformation, combat patrol boxes have a fixed price point of £85, start collecting vary in price but are £55-£60 on average, which isn't half the cost last time I checked. Also if the fewer models cost more individually and are more points, that's still better?
OokamiEq wrote: Why? Start collecting is smaller and provides lesser amount of points. With combat patrol or 2 you can already play normally.
Did you even bother to look at them? Two SC cost the same as CP, give you more minis, and much bigger discount. Hell, look at Dark Angel combat patrol, it has less minis than most start collecting - if that is desirable future to you, I have no words
The chaos warriors SC is a thing of beauty, cheap, new, amazing sculpts, more minis than Black Templar "army" box and costs 1/4 of it...
110e vs 70-80e so 2 for 1 is not that accurate.
And in future cp or sc either way price will go up as box prices go up. That or new sc model count goes down,
Only way sc prlce won't go up is if gw never ever never releases new sc and withat means no new unit whatsoever finds itself in sc either. And no kit in sc would ever get updated in future
nels1031 wrote: Am I overthinking the warscroll, or are the Darkoath pretty damn nice (ruleswise)?
Extremely. And GW thinking they are worth less points than the spider furries is hilarious.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cronch wrote: Or they could keep the SC price down to be an attractive entry point for new players, instead of rising the entry point price.
But I hope they go with Combat Patrols.
Please no, in USD the start collecting boxes are still two-digit prices whereas combat patrols are solidly into three. That sticker shock factor makes a stupidly huge difference when trying to recruit people.
Eldarain wrote: Bottle confirmed the lack of Cultist is intentional on Conan and friends.
What does the cultist keyword do?
Units with the Cultist keyword can take a Mark of Chaos. They are also battleline if they have the same Mark as the general. In the Ravagers sub faction the general can summon a unit of 10 Cultists. A Darkoath Chieftain or Warqueen can take a Mark as Cultists of the Dark Gods applies to them but the Savagers can't. The Chieftain and Warqueen also have command ability rules that affect Marauders or Cultists but Savagers don't have these keywords.
Cronch wrote: Or they could keep the SC price down to be an attractive entry point for new players, instead of rising the entry point price.
But I hope they go with Combat Patrols.
Please no, in USD the start collecting boxes are still two-digit prices whereas combat patrols are solidly into three. That sticker shock factor makes a stupidly huge difference when trying to recruit people.
While I agree with your sentiment it's the way it's bound to go. GW has tried only to keep pound price two digit for a long time, other countries be damned. But they seem to be moving away even from this lately.
tneva82 wrote: And in future cp or sc either way price will go up as box prices go up. That or new sc model count goes down,
Only way sc prlce won't go up is if gw never ever never releases new sc and withat means no new unit whatsoever finds itself in sc either. And no kit in sc would ever get updated in future
In case you didn't notice, GWalready yanked price of SC up quite recently. They could - I don't know, here comes a quite revolutionary concept - keep it steady for a few more years? Like they did in six years before said price change? But I guess it's somehow asking too much?
JWBS wrote: Yeah I really like the new CPs for 40k. Roughly the same discount as SC, but higher price (so more saving), plus different stuff, which is good because I've already bought all the SC40k I'll ever need. I think there's still a couple of SCAoS I might buy though, so I'm not too fussed about the AoS line switching over to CP boxes (though I wouldn't mind too much).
If you think saving 30$ from 80$ is the same as from 140$ methinks you should work on your math skills a bit
And what I nice argument. "I got mine, frak new players who might get into the hobby if they had a low entry point". Did you think this through at all? Because that's kinda a big shoot in the foot there, not supporting your position...
1x Lord of Blights
5x Putrid Blightkings
2x Pusgoyle Blightlords
1x Poxbringer, Herald of Nurgle
10x Plaguebearers
3x Plague Drones
6x Nurglings
So, let's see - GW combined two SC and extra troop box, making a bundle that dunks on ANY TWO COMBAT PATROLS COMBINED (sorry for being loud, this message just needs to get to some people) when it comes in amount of plastic/minis, and the best part is, it costs about same as a SINGLE combat patrol. I'll repeat, a single one.
It's really sad to see GW started to brainwash people so hard with constant hikes even their greedy pricing is already well below what said people started excusing and asking "ram me harder". It really starts to feel like an Apple cult when people get angry at others at mere suggestion of 'how about a big corporation stops constantly raising prices needlessly for a bit' which is apparently outlandish thing to say now
JWBS wrote: Yeah I really like the new CPs for 40k. Roughly the same discount as SC, but higher price (so more saving), plus different stuff, which is good because I've already bought all the SC40k I'll ever need. I think there's still a couple of SCAoS I might buy though, so I'm not too fussed about the AoS line switching over to CP boxes (though I wouldn't mind too much).
If you think saving 30$ from 80$ is the same as from 140$ methinks you should work on your math skills a bit
I'm gonna assume that's the absolute best case scenario for your argument and puts my point in the worst light possible bcos that seems to be your way. Pretty easy to replicate in reverse though, for anyone that's interested in that type of thig. Can even do it visually for extra impact, but whatever man.
I don’t think the value isn’t there in the Combat Patrols, but I do think the sticker shock might be an issue for new players compared to Start Collectings. What could be good is maybe do both, and have them complimentary to each other if you get both, but I guess that’s a lot of SKUs and stuff.
And what I nice argument. "I got mine, frak new players who might get into the hobby if they had a low entry point". Did you think this through at all? Because that's kinda a big shoot in the foot there, not supporting your position...
Sorry I just noticed this bit of righteous sanctimony, otherwise I would have responded to this in my previous reply. I suppose all I can do is apologise for making an argument from my own personal perspective, and clearly stating it as my own personal perspective, whilst also acknowledging that all of your arguments for whatever the f you're arguing for are invariably, nay exclusively, for the benefit of marginalised communities and underprivileged persons. And I thank you for that, I really do.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ImAGeek wrote: I don’t think the value isn’t there in the Combat Patrols, but I do think the sticker shock might be an issue for new players compared to Start Collectings. What could be good is maybe do both, and have them complimentary to each other if you get both, but I guess that’s a lot of SKUs and stuff.
Yeah I think the benefits outweigh to drawbacks though, most people have had ample opportunity by now to get what they need from SC, I think the fresh wave of product not only benefits veterans, but also newcomers (which is not entirely true of the SC line in the case of veterans)
1x Lord of Blights
5x Putrid Blightkings
2x Pusgoyle Blightlords
1x Poxbringer, Herald of Nurgle
10x Plaguebearers
3x Plague Drones
6x Nurglings
So, let's see - GW combined two SC and extra troop box, making a bundle that dunks on ANY TWO COMBAT PATROLS COMBINED (sorry for being loud, this message just needs to get to some people) when it comes in amount of plastic/minis, and the best part is, it costs about same as a SINGLE combat patrol. I'll repeat, a single one.
It's really sad to see GW started to brainwash people so hard with constant hikes even their greedy pricing is already well below what said people started excusing and asking "ram me harder". It really starts to feel like an Apple cult when people get angry at others at mere suggestion of 'how about a big corporation stops constantly raising prices needlessly for a bit' which is apparently outlandish thing to say now
It's a time limited discount to shift stock/drum up hype. It's like me bragging my ebay auction win is so much better value, than a full rrp product.
I'd wager if those amazing value nurgle boxes sold better they wouldn't be in a time limited extra discount to box.
1x Lord of Blights
5x Putrid Blightkings
2x Pusgoyle Blightlords
1x Poxbringer, Herald of Nurgle
10x Plaguebearers
3x Plague Drones
6x Nurglings
So, let's see - GW combined two SC and extra troop box, making a bundle that dunks on ANY TWO COMBAT PATROLS COMBINED (sorry for being loud, this message just needs to get to some people) when it comes in amount of plastic/minis, and the best part is, it costs about same as a SINGLE combat patrol. I'll repeat, a single one.
It's really sad to see GW started to brainwash people so hard with constant hikes even their greedy pricing is already well below what said people started excusing and asking "ram me harder". It really starts to feel like an Apple cult when people get angry at others at mere suggestion of 'how about a big corporation stops constantly raising prices needlessly for a bit' which is apparently outlandish thing to say now
It's a time limited discount to shift stock/drum up hype. It's like me bragging my ebay auction win is so much better value, than a full rrp product.
I'd wager if those amazing value nurgle boxes sold better they wouldn't be in a time limited extra discount to box.
It's almost like, by comparing an everyday line product to this ultra-limited, once in a 20 year deal that can't be sourced from third party discounters and is clearly a stock clearing measure that just so happens to be a combination of two products who's value he's lauding ...he's being deliberately disingenuous? No, that can't be it
JWBS wrote: It's almost like, by comparing an everyday line product to this ultra-limited, once in a 20 year deal that can't be sourced from third party discounters and is clearly a stock clearing measure that just so happens to be a combination of two products who's value he's lauding ...he's being deliberately disingenuous? No, that can't be it
You do realize that, being the designers packagers and maufacturers of both, the only reason that the "ultra-limited, once in a 20 year deal that can't be sourced from third party discounters" is all the above is, specifically, because they have made it so, right?
Or, in other words, the sole reason why they don't do the same every time is because they want to squeeze more blood out of rocks. Because, I assure you, they are not losing money with that deal.
Yes. All of that goes w/o saying. Hence I didn't say it. Did you know that a chef's hat has exactly one hundred pleats?
edit - I suppose what I should have said though, is that his comparison makes even less sense given that it's only relevant for like 3 days. It would be as if they suddenly pumped the price of Abaddon black by 80% and then someone were to praise the value of Corax white relative to Abaddon black, and we should all be clamouring for more CW, despite that CW was only 'great value' for like those six days in June of 2020. But that point has already been made I guess. But there's another analogy explaining why he's wrong anyway.
JWBS wrote: Yes. All of that goes w/o saying. Hence I didn't say it. Did you know that a chef's hat has exactly one hundred pleats?
edit - I suppose what I should have said though, is that his comparison makes even less sense given that it's only relevant for like 3 days. It would be as if they suddenly pumped the price of Abaddon black by 80% and then someone were to praise the value of Corax white relative to Abaddon black, and we should all be clamouring for more CW, despite that CW was only 'great value' for like those six days in June of 2020. But that point has already been made I guess. But there's another analogy explaining why he's wrong anyway.
Dunno man, seemed to me the way you were defending they were not the same was for something else than "because GW said so".
JWBS wrote: Yes. All of that goes w/o saying. Hence I didn't say it. Did you know that a chef's hat has exactly one hundred pleats?
edit - I suppose what I should have said though, is that his comparison makes even less sense given that it's only relevant for like 3 days. It would be as if they suddenly pumped the price of Abaddon black by 80% and then someone were to praise the value of Corax white relative to Abaddon black, and we should all be clamouring for more CW, despite that CW was only 'great value' for like those six days in June of 2020. But that point has already been made I guess. But there's another analogy explaining why he's wrong anyway.
Dunno man, seemed to me the way you were defending they were not the same was for something else than "because GW said so".
I think the issue is the initial angry tirade about combat patrols was and is full of factually inaccurate statements and entirely lopsided comparisons.
JWBS wrote: Yes. All of that goes w/o saying. Hence I didn't say it. Did you know that a chef's hat has exactly one hundred pleats?
edit - I suppose what I should have said though, is that his comparison makes even less sense given that it's only relevant for like 3 days. It would be as if they suddenly pumped the price of Abaddon black by 80% and then someone were to praise the value of Corax white relative to Abaddon black, and we should all be clamouring for more CW, despite that CW was only 'great value' for like those six days in June of 2020. But that point has already been made I guess. But there's another analogy explaining why he's wrong anyway.
Dunno man, seemed to me the way you were defending they were not the same was for something else than "because GW said so".
My point was not to defend anything (although I suppose ultimately I was defending the value of CP in an oblique fashion). I don't entirely understand your point either tbh so I don't think I can clarify my point any further. Yes, the prices are set by GW, all of them, and some stuff is better value than others (whether perceived or actual), but him pointing to this super special deal, that happens to include a couple of SC boxes, as if it proves that CS boxes are inherently a better deal than CP - well, it just doesn't.
JWBS wrote: Yes. All of that goes w/o saying. Hence I didn't say it. Did you know that a chef's hat has exactly one hundred pleats?
edit - I suppose what I should have said though, is that his comparison makes even less sense given that it's only relevant for like 3 days. It would be as if they suddenly pumped the price of Abaddon black by 80% and then someone were to praise the value of Corax white relative to Abaddon black, and we should all be clamouring for more CW, despite that CW was only 'great value' for like those six days in June of 2020. But that point has already been made I guess. But there's another analogy explaining why he's wrong anyway.
Dunno man, seemed to me the way you were defending they were not the same was for something else than "because GW said so".
My point was not to defend anything (although I suppose ultimately I was defending the value of CP in an oblique fashion). I don't entirely understand your point either tbh so I don't think I can clarify my point any further. Yes, the prices are set by GW, all of them, and some stuff is better value than others (whether perceived or actual), but him pointing to this super special deal, that happens to include a couple of SC boxes, as if it proves that CS boxes are inherently a better deal than CP - well, it just doesn't.
My point is that comparing a specific GW deal set to another specific GW deal set is not really comparing apples to oranges, but rather comparing apples to other apples that GW has decided to make less plentiful.
Right but in this analogy, if you want to dig down into it, pointing to the 3 day only, 'get em while you can' yellow apples, to prove that red apples are better value than green apples, is fallacious.
JWBS wrote: Right but in this analogy, if you want to dig down into it, pointing to the 3 day only, 'get em while you can' yellow apples, to prove that red apples are better value than green apples, is fallacious.
About as much as pointing to any other one, when the due date is arbitrary. Hence why I said that the, to follow the analogy, "3 day only, 'get em while you can' yellow apples" are only that because GW has decided it, and for no other reason whatsoever. Because they completely control all the steps of the product.
What is fallacious is the due date, because it's a construct.
In my completely personal observation that may be wrong Combat Patrols tend to lean more heavily than SC! into models I perceive as overpriced to create "savings" on sticker price while providing poor value.
I humbly disagree and am therefore compelled to offer a duel to decide whom of us is a nincompoop and whom is the champion of the internet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I offer, in my own defence, the AMCP, which is like to old AMSC, but with some extra robots, plus a spider tank instead of a hover tank like we got with AMSC mk2 (Spider beats hover eight times out of ten).
I'll take that as a concession. I'm officially retiring now as undefeated King of the Internet, any new challengers will have to fight it out among themselves.
JWBS wrote: I'll take that as a concession. I'm officially retiring now as undefeated King of the Internet, any new challengers will have to fight it out among themselves.
SC! Tau is bloody perfect. I buy it for breakfeast, but I wouldn't mind if they turn it into a CP with Enfocer Commander instead of/alongside Ethereal/or Broadside.
Then you have Space Wolves, which is pretty much unfitting thematically and as a force based on the codex. DE is much better at that.
Then, for AoS, I got wonders like SC! BCR, FEC, both Seraphons, SCE, kinda the four Daemons, which are pretty much CPs at great prices and fromm which you can build entire armies just buying the same box multiple times, somwthing you can't really do reliably in 40K.
DaveC wrote: Krondys/Karazai £95 in the Christmas guide and no army boxes in it rumour is to expect webstore discount bundles instead.
Wait, no Battleforces? somethig else or pics related?
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Combat Patrols just feel like a bit to steep of an entry cost, y'know?
They definitely hit that sweet spot of both 'value' whilst not being so high that Lil Timmy's parents would do an about turn out of the shop.
For me that sweet spot was SC! Combat Patrols are on average around 50$ or so more expensive. And they don't even give that much more extra compared to a Start Collecting- i mean, for example, the AdMech one only gave you one extra 3-man troop squad for that increase. I don't know if i would start AdMech when i did if instead of the old Start Collecting, my potential starter set would be the Combat Patrol.
JWBS wrote: I'll take that as a concession. I'm officially retiring now as undefeated King of the Internet, any new challengers will have to fight it out among themselves.
SC! Tau is bloody perfect. I buy it for breakfeast, but I wouldn't mind if they turn it into a CP with Enfocer Commander instead of/alongside Ethereal/or Broadside.
Then you have Space Wolves, which is pretty much unfitting thematically and as a force based on the codex. DE is much better at that.
Then, for AoS, I got wonders like SC! BCR, FEC, both Seraphons, SCE, kinda the four Daemons, which are pretty much CPs at great prices and fromm which you can build entire armies just buying the same box multiple times, somwthing you can't really do reliably in 40K.
DaveC wrote: Krondys/Karazai £95 in the Christmas guide and no army boxes in it rumour is to expect webstore discount bundles instead.
Wait, no Battleforces? something else or pics related?
Okay, so you are saying (my Friend, as I don't know much about all of the various releases), that there are vey man releases, good for many gamers/modellers that we know now? Good, I agree) but whatever way you look at it, there are some box sets that we know what to look at. Sorry, I am little bit at a good place to judge this ( Friday night, not best positioned), but, I think we can all agree, GW trying (at least somewhat), to sell us some plastic soldiers to make us somewhat happy
Automatically Appended Next Post: ^^ very drunk, sorry, idk if any of that make ssense
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Combat Patrols just feel like a bit to steep of an entry cost, y'know?
They definitely hit that sweet spot of both 'value' whilst not being so high that Lil Timmy's parents would do an about turn out of the shop.
For me that sweet spot was SC! Combat Patrols are on average around 50$ or so more expensive. And they don't even give that much more extra compared to a Start Collecting- i mean, for example, the AdMech one only gave you one extra 3-man troop squad for that increase. I don't know if i would start AdMech when i did if instead of the old Start Collecting, my potential starter set would be the Combat Patrol.
The main appeal is that they are a 500 point army out of the box. TBH, I think it's more representative that warhammer armies have become too big (too many models) and would like to see points costs for models go up instead of down. It is a steeper entry point, and I haven't seen much hype about Combat Patrols. Start Collectings were typically under 100 USD, so it wasn't as hard to sell them.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Combat Patrols just feel like a bit to steep of an entry cost, y'know?
They definitely hit that sweet spot of both 'value' whilst not being so high that Lil Timmy's parents would do an about turn out of the shop.
For me that sweet spot was SC! Combat Patrols are on average around 50$ or so more expensive. And they don't even give that much more extra compared to a Start Collecting- i mean, for example, the AdMech one only gave you one extra 3-man troop squad for that increase. I don't know if i would start AdMech when i did if instead of the old Start Collecting, my potential starter set would be the Combat Patrol.
Sorry, I was referring to SC!s in my post. Combat Patrols are definitely GW trying to take the mickey as usual. "If they'll pay £60, they'll pay £85" until they're left wondering why they sold less.
Most of the Combat Patrol boxes suck. The Deathwatch one doesn't even have any Deathwatch minis in it. The Death Guard one has 3 incomplete models. The Ork one, as much as I like what's there as a 1-off, is filled to the gills with push-fit minis. The Blood Angel, Dark Eldar and maybe the AdMech ones seem to be the only worthwhile ones.
And the jump of $100 does have a massive sticker shock to it. I know I would have never got the Blood Angel one if I hadn't got a $100 voucher from work.
Would be a real shame of AoS got saddled with them.
I figure for a time we'll end up with them as GW rides the coat tails of long returned fans willing to spend more; then at some point new customer uptake will slow and they'll release and focus on cheaper sets for a while to get new people in.
Cool. Kind of a shame I bought another SC Maggotkin recently, I thought that would be it for my Nurgle but I guess I'll buy one of these. Also a shame there's not the fly head sorcerer in this instead of that daemon character.
Indeed, similar concerns are occasionally voiced over the Chaos Lord in the Slaves to Darkness box.
Of course exclusivity is entirely a problem of GW's own making. They could effortlessly release a new character separately and still put it in the start collecting box or equivalent released at the same time. They just value the extra profit they hope box exclusivity gets them higher than customer satisfaction.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Most of the Combat Patrol boxes suck. The Deathwatch one doesn't even have any Deathwatch minis in it. The Death Guard one has 3 incomplete models. The Ork one, as much as I like what's there as a 1-off, is filled to the gills with push-fit minis. The Blood Angel, Dark Eldar and maybe the AdMech ones seem to be the only worthwhile ones.
Wait.
What? fething incomplete models? What is this I don't even.
lare2 wrote: There's random Plague Marine bits on the Pox sprues.
Of course, why the feth not >_>
They used the big Poxwalker sprues from Dark Imperium, each of which happens to have part of a Plague Marine cut in a "modern GW" style, meaning it's not even a case of adding a bit or two to get an extra complete model out of the deal, from memory.
Eh I don't have a problem with that. I can understand the nature of it needing to be both part of a (really great value) starter and split off as it's own kit. Plus poxwalkers need plague marines are part of the force org anyways, so free conversion parts.
For AoS there's the lord-arcanum on gryph who also comes with a evocator-prime, as a result of combined sprues from being in the starter. While one evocator prime is useless, the actual evocator box can build a knight-incantor, leaving the unit one model short. So they naturally pair well together.
DaveC wrote: The new Nurgle box is a Vanguard box and will retail for €100 which is around £78 and $125. Looks like Vanguard is the AoS version of combat patrols.
So goodbye SC! for AoS too?
That's bs for different armies. Imagine pure daemon players, and makes you wonder what will happen to FEC and BCR...
Flesh Eater Courts will likely do really well because freaking heck they need some new models. Right now almost the entire army can be build out of their SC box. So a new larger box for them would likely come with a nice wave of new models; otherwise there'd really be little point.
Also don't get snapping too fast as we've got christmas bundles right around the corner.
Overread wrote: Flesh Eater Courts will likely do really well because freaking heck they need some new models. Right now almost the entire army can be build out of their SC box. So a new larger box for them would likely come with a nice wave of new models; otherwise there'd really be little point.
Also don't get snapping too fast as we've got christmas bundles right around the corner.
Maybe they'll get one whenever that new model drops. Several rumor engines look very FEC related, and I doubt it would be a second nighthaunt model on throne (who also have some rumor engines). (Or a vampire, given the surplus of vampire HQ models soulblight already have)
Overread wrote: Flesh Eater Courts will likely do really well because freaking heck they need some new models. Right now almost the entire army can be build out of their SC box. So a new larger box for them would likely come with a nice wave of new models; otherwise there'd really be little point.
Also don't get snapping too fast as we've got christmas bundles right around the corner.
It's going to get stupid. If they want a 750 pts army, they can't with the Nurgle one (~585 with current values), and it gets even worst considering that a SC! BCR already gives you exactly 750 pts.
What will they add to a FEC? how would they justify such a price increase with just new ghouls? Are they going to finally make plastic Varghulfs?
The guy who posted the Vanguard box for Nurgle said that there is no Battleforces, and I already saw the pic of the booklet for christmass on a Discord (spanish). Seems that you are better off picking of the Nurgle SC!, including the Daemons kit, right away, because the Vanguard box IS part of the bundles and the other two are nowhere to be seen.
Overread wrote: Flesh Eater Courts will likely do really well because freaking heck they need some new models. Right now almost the entire army can be build out of their SC box. So a new larger box for them would likely come with a nice wave of new models; otherwise there'd really be little point.
Also don't get snapping too fast as we've got christmas bundles right around the corner.
Just started FEC this week. Managed to find a Gorstane box and a discounted Warcry FEC. I ordered two of their Start Collecting FEC and should pick them up tomorrow.
Overread wrote: Flesh Eater Courts will likely do really well because freaking heck they need some new models. Right now almost the entire army can be build out of their SC box. So a new larger box for them would likely come with a nice wave of new models; otherwise there'd really be little point.
Also don't get snapping too fast as we've got christmas bundles right around the corner.
It's going to get stupid. If they want a 750 pts army, they can't with the Nurgle one (~585 with current values), and it gets even worst considering that a SC! BCR already gives you exactly 750 pts.
What will they add to a FEC? how would they justify such a price increase with just new ghouls? Are they going to finally make plastic Varghulfs?
The guy who posted the Vanguard box for Nurgle said that there is no Battleforces, and I already saw the pic of the booklet for christmass on a Discord (spanish). Seems that you are better off picking of the Nurgle SC!, including the Daemons kit, right away, because the Vanguard box IS part of the bundles and the other two are nowhere to be seen.
What do you mean, buy a SC Maggotkin + Plaguebearers for £82.50 instead of Vanguard Maggotkin for £85?
Start collecting box sets around £50 to £60 without discounts are a comfortable way to get some minis and feel for the army... taking them away and replace with £85 box and it starts to be a bigger commitment. Basically they want to grab you for one buy only at bigger mark up... Which is silly because I have seen plenty of people picking up 2x SC's many times spending more in the end.
Either way its their loss in my case because I prefer to get a couple SC boxes of different armies and eventually flesh them out than just get one army bigger box.
Like I said earlier I think the key is that GW is seeing Start Collecting boxes selling more to established customers right now. So they are riding that coat-tail and releasing more expensive discount boxes because they are pitching them to - well - us. To most current fans who are already within the GW ecosystem.
I figure that will sustain itself for a time then might get mixed with cheaper starter boxes later as GW might swing back to securing more customers.
If most reactions I've seen are any indication, then, the strategy is backfiring on them, because most established customers are seeing these and just not buying; at least over here, sales have taken a nosedive on that specific segment since the SC boxes started disappearing.
Yep and if that turns out the case then GW might well adjust; however chances are their plan has at least 6months or more lead time before they can react to changes like that. Boxes are already designed, made and on boats; kits are parted up and product listings and such designed and set in motion. Whilst having most of their company in-house means they can react quickly; they still have elements of the firm that are slower to react to changes.
Also we can't overlook that changes might not just be due to the product; there could be other factors resulting in changes.
Then there's the local vs national changes. It might be some localities with certain player groups slow down on buying; whilst other localities and player groups pick up on buying.
NAVARRO wrote: Start collecting box sets around £50 to £60 without discounts are a comfortable way to get some minis and feel for the army... taking them away and replace with £85 box and it starts to be a bigger commitment. Basically they want to grab you for one buy only at bigger mark up... Which is silly because I have seen plenty of people picking up 2x SC's many times spending more in the end.
Either way its their loss in my case because I prefer to get a couple SC boxes of different armies and eventually flesh them out than just get one army bigger box.
If you're quoting discount prices on the SC then you really should do the same for CP. Also there is no mark up between sets as shown repeatedly. I don't know why many seem to be having a hard time with this. The concern about higher price is not something that I'm losing sleep about but it's valid, however this thing about losing value is objectively false and not a difficult concept to grasp either.
I do agree now though that the SC + Plaguebearers is better for maggotkin though I forgot that SC comes with Blights instead of Herald. That switch is actually a big turnoff for me though obviously subjective.
NAVARRO wrote: Start collecting box sets around £50 to £60 without discounts are a comfortable way to get some minis and feel for the army... taking them away and replace with £85 box and it starts to be a bigger commitment. Basically they want to grab you for one buy only at bigger mark up... Which is silly because I have seen plenty of people picking up 2x SC's many times spending more in the end.
Either way its their loss in my case because I prefer to get a couple SC boxes of different armies and eventually flesh them out than just get one army bigger box.
If you're quoting discount prices on the SC then you really should do the same for CP. Also there is no mark up between sets as shown repeatedly. I don't know why many seem to be having a hard time with this. The concern about higher price is not something that I'm losing sleep about but it's valid, however this thing about losing value is objectively false and not a difficult concept to grasp either.
I do agree now though that the SC + Plaguebearers is better for maggotkin though I forgot that SC comes with Blights instead of Herald. That switch is actually a big turnoff for me though obviously subjective.
No discounts on the quoted...the AoSSC boxes on GW site got 3 prices, 50, 55 and 60 depending on the army.
Value is relative not discussing that either. From a standpoint of instead of getting 1 SC box to jumping to a bigger more expensive one, even if more minis are included, is not something I consider "dipping my toes"... £85 is full commitment to one army. That I find it to be less flexible and comfortable to my way go shopping around.
Also would like to point out that the bigger the box and with more models the less interesting it will be to buy multiples due to the fact you will end up with more duplicates than you wish. So even that is less flexible. Also if this is aimed at current client base then even bigger chance people already have portions of those boxes...Start collecting boxes was a sweet spot, a core a hero and something else to spice it up, I could buy a couple and only the hero would be duplicate.
In this day and age of quick pick up games and drop, a Dad going to pick something for is kid will not think twice on getting the £50 box named Start collecting. Going for a £85 box, well you look more carefully whats that all about, from what I experienced in the UK the £100 expenditure seems to be a psychological barrier for many and £85 is too close to that.
What I mean is this is not a start up or pick up something to dip your toes and see how it goes. Its a full commitment to one specific army and even vets have problems picking new armies can you imagine someone not up to date with GW shenanigans and Orruks or other funny names spending £85 on something they are not sure about?
I think this box is not marketed to either new people coming in or veterans who potentially already have or dont want a portion of the boxes.
I hope they do well if thats what people want, not for me though.
Sorry I thought you said with discounts, but you said w/o. Maybe the disagreement about value is a misunderstanding, the way you say it is a price "mark up" seems to be suggesting paying more for the same thing (or in this case the same amount of stuff), but the new boxes clearly have more stuff at the same percentage of discount (varies up and down but is equivalent).
JWBS wrote: Sorry I thought you said with discounts, but you said w/o. Maybe the disagreement about value is a misunderstanding, the way you say it is a price "mark up" seems to be suggesting paying more for the same thing (or in this case the same amount of stuff), but the new boxes clearly have more stuff at the same percentage of discount (varies up and down but is equivalent).
Yes sorry about that. I was trying to say is that these 2 box sets have the same target in mind, which is to tempt you to start a X army.
The SC does that for £60 while the new ones will be £85.
If they choose to discontinue the smaller box in favour of the bigger ones then the target itself just got less comfortable and harder to reach.
You get more models and potentially nicer discounts? But this is where I think people will begin to question do I really need to spend £85 to just try out an army I'm not 100% sure about?
Edit: Oh just remembered that after my last visit to a GW store that if you want to pick something for your army just for the sake of it that regiment boxes roughly around £30 or hero blisters around £20 are the most common options. Beneath that line you have hobby tools/paints things or medals etc which are not the core (minis). Nothing new but if your cheapest minis are around those numbers then well you dont impulse buy that much anymore.
Not saying all minis should devaluate or bigger box sets should be free... Im saying you need something (miniature wise) to fill the impulse buy gap. Seems GW is moving away from that and increasing the gap by £25 on the new army boxes.
NAVARRO wrote: You get more models and potentially nicer discounts? But this is where I think people will begin to question do I really need to spend £85 to just try out a army I'm not 100% sure about?
NAVARRO wrote: You get more models and potentially nicer discounts? But this is where I think people will begin to question do I really need to spend £85 to just try out a army I'm not 100% sure about?
Or a game, for that matter, yes.
Well, this year marked me in therms of GW gaming or rules, rulebooks, dexes etc I gave them all up. I think now is more evident than ever that the price of both books and minis for my several armies would be a small fortune to just update. Got me thinking so I just dont...
I now have fun just buying the minis I really want. Maybe one day "games" will be price as beer and pretzels as they should, rather than £100 gourmet burgers. XD
Edit: Oh just remembered that after my last visit to a GW store that if you want to pick something for your army just for the sake of it that regiment boxes roughly around £30 or hero blisters around £20 are the most common options. Beneath that line you have hobby tools/paints things or medals etc which are not the core (minis). Nothing new but if your cheapest minis are around those numbers then well you dont impulse buy that much anymore.
Not saying all minis should devaluate or bigger box sets should be free... Im saying you need something (miniature wise) to fill the impulse buy gap. Seems GW is moving away from that and increasing the gap by £25 on the new army boxes.
That is a pretty bizarre thing to realise, £20 minimum spend for the smallest, least impressive thing possible. I remember when I was at university there was a GW nearby and I would sometimes go there and buy stuff just to kill my free time. Like, a box of 10 metal sister repentia for like £15 or something, I clearly remember that day and there would have been many more just like it. I definitely wouldn't just pop in now on my lunchtime and blow £20 on an impulse buy if it's one single miniature. I always have to wonder, if the reduced prices by 35% how many people would buy 100% more stuff. The economics are tricky, maybe many people would spend less and many would spend the same amount, but I gotta believe there is a scenario where profits increase by a fair margin by making stuff cheaper.
The problem is GW can't keep up with demand right now. They've had two years of vastly increased sales during a pandemic. They can't keep stuff in stock fast enough.
Sadly for us right now is the worst time to try and convince GW that they need to lower prices.
I do have to say that I find when it comes ot birthdays/christmas I'm putting less GW stuff on the list because it is going past that £20 sweet spot.
I think for GW what they need to have is excess capacity to produce and having hit a marketing threshold where they can't market to any wider an audience without making massive investments into new marketing avenues. When they have stock sitting on the shelf or machines not running and games not selling; and when the competition rae showing increased sales. That's when you can convince a firm that perhaps lowering their prices or offering bundle discounts etc... - might be the right path.
But yeah I do miss the days when a character was say in the £8-£12 bracket.
Of course some of the price rises are sneaky; eg Zoanthropes went up; but then they became a duel kit; and 3 in a box instead of 1 .
They should have a minis line repackaged just for impulse buy, less minis etc. The snap fit once it landed was supposed to be that gap filler but we see that those are either assimilated with the more expensive kits or discontinued like the Dreadgnout and such.
You can get cheaper kits for other less popular games like BB though. But if your collecting the main 2 systems then it becomes harder to get cheap pick up stuff.
Like a blister with one or two squigs for £5, things like that to keep people's itch happy.
For example the Hachette mags do that just fine I don't see why GW could not do that themselves as one of their product lines.
Eh the problem is those kind of purchases become pointless. 2 squigs can't be fielded so now you've got to buy several packs - you might as well either just save and get one regular box or multiple boxes at once to actually "use" them in the game.
If one is push fit, limited on options or such then that's going to be less popular.
Hachette is a good example of lower prices working, however at the same time its important to note that its different to a main release. It's essentially just a very drawn out christmas bundle release of two armies. Not the entire product line; not everything and each release is a fixed number of issues (expanded but still always a fixed number; its not produced until demand is gone).
So in general its not the same as making all your prices lower forever; its a short term lower price to generate fast sales which then should translate into more sales of higher value items for more profit later
That's potentially like saying SCGSC is 250pts and the CPBA is 500pts. Comparison makes no sense, the factions are different. It's highly (and very obviously) selective.
Start collecting and battlebox and christmas bundle boxes have never really ever aimed for equal points values. The only ones that even attempt it at the duel battle boxes and even they often come up short on one side, which is sometmies balanced out by the custom campaign in the box.
GW aren't selling on points; points have no real impact on sales metrics outside of anticipated sales volume. Even then there are oddities.
eg the necron Flayed ones are the same unit role and same point cost as warriors and yet cost way more.
Of course this might be because they were originally designed as an elite unit and then got changed, but their price and market position were already fixed so you end up with an elite style unit price on a core infantry style model in the game.
Albertorius wrote: Even if the discount is the same, you have to pay more in one go. And 1) many people won't, or won't be able, and 2) higher price means more scrutiny.
That without even addressing the fact that GW regular prices are... a thing.
Well. One way or another prices would go up. Either more expensive box with more models or just same box with higher price.
Yif you expect same box be there for same price forever must not have been long in gw games.
GW has proven sales results that show the people who buy into their games are damn near price-insensitive. Sure, little timmies might no longer find it as easy to get into it, but the older whale/collector market pretty much snaps anything up. just look at the action figure market, children are basically an afterthought now.
(which is tied to other issues, like the current 30-40 millenial generation being unable to buy "status" goods like houses and cars their parents and grandparents could, substituting it with much cheaper nostalgia-driven purchases)
Albertorius wrote: Even if the discount is the same, you have to pay more in one go. And 1) many people won't, or won't be able, and 2) higher price means more scrutiny.
That without even addressing the fact that GW regular prices are... a thing.
Well. One way or another prices would go up. Either more expensive box with more models or just same box with higher price.
Yif you expect same box be there for same price forever must not have been long in gw games.
Not long at all, no. About 30 years, give or take, five of them working inside the company.
But the point you're addressing is not the point I made, so ok?
What I did say is that people will find harder to buy these more expensive boxes because they reach a higher threshold that is much more difficult to justify (or, for some people, to actually afford), even if they keep the general price and discounts. Not that prices shouldn't or wouldn't raise, because yes, this is GW we're talking about.
As a parting note, I also did point out that GW prices are... well, GW prices.
I feel that eventually, as it already happened before, enough people will vote with their money, and the seemingly unstoppable trends of GW will somehow revert again, but as Overread said, currently GW can't produce enough stuff to sell, so it will be some time yet for that.
and 
