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 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
GW is once again dropping the ball on communication. People are perfectly willing to understand a delay, especially these days. What they aren't willing to understand is the total radio silence. Seriously, even a statement acknowledging the problem and saying 'we're working on it' would go a long way in promoting good will with the community.

People are generally more willing to accept bad news is they are told the truth.

Radio silence, as you put it, is just more likely to foment rumours/conspiracy theories ("Their entire supply of Sigmarine Dragons was hijacked by Somalian pirates at the behest of the President of Cuba!").

DAMNIT ZOMBIE CASTRO!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
GW is once again dropping the ball on communication. People are perfectly willing to understand a delay, especially these days. What they aren't willing to understand is the total radio silence. Seriously, even a statement acknowledging the problem and saying 'we're working on it' would go a long way in promoting good will with the community.

People are generally more willing to accept bad news is they are told the truth.

Radio silence, as you put it, is just more likely to foment rumours/conspiracy theories ("Their entire supply of Sigmarine Dragons was hijacked by Somalian pirates at the behest of the President of Cuba!").

Clearly, it's a copyright issue.

a much simpler reason, by accident GW printed the productions cost on the boxes, so they needed to order new ones and does not have decided if it is worth to make an expensive print in Europe or wait the 6 months it takes for new ones to arrive from China

 Geifer wrote:
I see your point, but at the other end of the spectrum we had a roadmap as early as July that placed a Chaos battletome in October. It's October now, and we haven't seen the models yet for the Order battletome that was supposed to come out in August.

That battletome already saw a delay until September, which GW acknowledged at the time of planned release. No mention of models, so the default assumption would have been with or shortly after the battletome. Which didn't happen.

There's a lot of uncertainty here and the problem is we really can't tell. Yes, pre-order announcement might happen on Sunday. Or Sunday night we sit here and say, hey, not this time around, maybe the Sunday after. It could go on for some time, or happen quickly. Right now we are dealing with the issue that neither GW's actual announcement has been true, nor assumptions based on GW's default way of releasing army books and associated models. So while we can of course be patient and hope for the best (and it's not like we can do anything else at the moment) we are in a situation where we are completely in the dark about the Sigmarine model release. As tight lipped as GW tends to be, that is absolutely not a normal situation. It's not too much to ask of a company to offer the customers some reassurance, even if it's just to acknowledge that they don't know any better than we do for the time being.

GW has for months now promoted this release and influenced customer expectations. In my opinion it is very questionable to cease engaging in that at a time when those expectations go off the rails.

Well GW has already stated the chaos book comes "sometime this year". So we know it's not october.

It's not that GW doesn't say anything about it. They just aren't committing to specific date(which seeing the previous month they claimed had to be broken. Don't make promises you can't keep is something parents teach kids. Maybe GW finally learned from parents wisdom finally)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

drbored wrote:
Why would GW tell us anything when the result will be the same?

It's like the fandom is the crying kids in the back and the parents are driving cross-country.

"We get there when we get there!"

an exact date would be silly, but yet again SOME sort of communication would be nice.

so besides "sometime this year", which they have already said, what more you want?

Month? They already had to break the month. What happens if they can't keep that either?

Didn't mom ever tell you don't make promises you can't be sure you can keep?

If GW doesn't know for sure when they can get them out best they can say is "sometime this year"(and even that's not infallible). Which they have.

So again: What more you want? Detailed shipping sheets? GPS tracking link so you can follow containers real time? Lol.

So we know that the Chaos book is coming sometimes this year, but I have not seen anything else on the missing units except for "soon".

If "sometimes" and "soon" is enough for some people this is ok, but I don't think it is enough communication with the community for the first armies released in a new Edition

I know the community is having double standards for GW and other companies, but usually if other games only have a "sometime" or "soon" for the next release it is already rated dead and dropped by the community because of no support from the company

BrianDavion wrote:


DAMNIT ZOMBIE CASTRO!

I just love the idea that the first thing Fidel would do after rising from his grave would be to say: "Welp, I am back to life. Time to play with way too expensive miniatures !"

Think he plays with Che and José Martí every Sundays ?

More specific time would be nice to have but then again if GW says "this day" and then they can't deliver how is that better?

In case you haven't heard: When product goes to ship then that's that. GW has absolutely zero control over it. Short of buying the whole damn ship and every item in it so they can do with it as they please. You think that's realistic solution? GW buying every cargo ship and everything they carry along their items? Lol.

I prefer GW not give promises they can't be sure of holding. Being told "preorder on this day" and then not getting them for preorder is worst.

They don't have to say why or even accept any responsibility. Acknowledging there's an issue, saying they aren't happy either, and saying they will let us know as soon as they can would generate good will for barely any effort. Absolutely some people would complain--but they are complaining either way, there's no loss.

No ones asking for GW to commit to a time table, we're simply saying "it's obvious they didn't hit their planned release window, we'd LIKE to heear from GW"

I can understand why GW is being quiet. I read somewhere that the problem is that their entire supply of Sigmarine Dragons was hijacked by Somalian pirates at the behest of the President of Cuba while waiting for the Egyptians to clear that ship stuck in the Suez Canal. Obviously they're afraid we'll start buying cut rate dragons from Somalian Ebay.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Because not communicating with your costumers is a dick move and a sure way to upset the fanbase.

Not communicating clearly with your costumers means that you may end up with the wrong costumes for the show or event you're trying to put on. Definitely a poor choice, but you're only shooting yourself in the foot (possibly while you've got it stuck in your mouth...).

Not communicating with your customers is definitely a poor look, especially when - as others have stated - all that needs to be acknowledged at this time is that there's a delay, and that they'll pop another post up once things have firmed up regarding the release.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
glances in the direction of Cursed City

It might not be the nicest city in the world, but that's still a harsh label to slap on Nottingham...

BrianDavion wrote:
No ones asking for GW to commit to a time table, we're simply saying "it's obvious they didn't hit their planned release window, we'd LIKE to heear from GW"

Well GW has already said the chaos book isn't coming on initial time after all.

You want hourly updates? "Now it's on this and that lat/lon"

tneva82 wrote:
In case you haven't heard: When product goes to ship then that's that. GW has absolutely zero control over it.

what is your source for the shipping problem?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
Well GW has already said the chaos book isn't coming on initial time after all.

and the models, no one is aksing about the book but the missing SCE models?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
They don't have to say why or even accept any responsibility. Acknowledging there's an issue, saying they aren't happy either, and saying they will let us know as soon as they can would generate good will for barely any effort. Absolutely some people would complain--but they are complaining either way, there's no loss.

As you’ve admitted people will complain no matter what. So what is their upside? Good will? Any time GW tries for good will they get hammered. When the pandemic breaks out and they released a gaming store only model people and that they didn’t get one because some guy on eBay had 20 of them and their local shop got 2. When they do a free model with every xxx dollar you spend it “Why the is it yet another space marine or another Ultramarine?”.

Just like RIGHT NOW, people are complaining that GW isn’t saying things how I want them to or when I want them to or even bothering to come to DakkaDakka and apologize.

Get over it.

You want them to Take the time to say they won’t make the deadline. How about you let them focus their energy on figuring out how to get around all the obstacles with worldwide shipping being a cluster , not being able to get supplies because once again worldwide shipping from their suppliers is a cluster labor shortages because of social distancing, or at least here in the states because the government is paying people more money to sit at home and do nothing than to go and work. The employees they do have are tasked with specific roles, you are not going to see them have everyone load up their cars and start door to door delivery of kits. Why because someone would get their kit hours or days ahead of another person and then there would be the same and moaning coming from a small community.

GW might be the biggest dog in the wargaming industry, but if they were to go to a shipping company like Fedex or UPS and try to flex they are going to get laughed at and sent back to play with their toys. Ports are shut down or running behind, containers for shipping are next to impossible to get at a reasonable rate, and even if the boat that brings the stock to the US makes it on time GW releases product across the globe at a reasonably simultaneous time. The SCE dragons may have landed in The US, but because Australia is still two weeks out they are going to hold back everything so there’s less hurt.

They stated in an off hand way that even they are not immune to the effects of the pandemic, do you actually think they will say that it is specifically because of xxx? They will get crucified by all the armchair quarterbacks saying well that’s an easy fix, or I work in that industry and that answers a load of .

It’s a lose-lose situation for them to try and do the “Damage Control” that people are demanding. It’s just simply out of their hands. When it’s out of your hands and you try to explain and give answers and something else gets in your way and you have to explain that, then you start looking incompetent. GW doesn’t answer to us. GW answers to the stockholders. They need to be working on what they will say at the next shareholders meeting when and if they don’t make a new major increase in sales. Maybe you own shares, but unless you have enough to equate to more than a few percentage share of the whole your voice is meaningless.

Most everyone on this forum lives where they have a right to free speech and a right to ask questions, but I don’t know anyone here who has the authority to demand answers.

 kodos wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
In case you haven't heard: When product goes to ship then that's that. GW has absolutely zero control over it.

what is your source for the shipping problem?

Duh. We know it's a shipping problem because the ship never made it to Britain.

=>

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I can understand why GW is being quiet. I read somewhere that the problem is that their entire supply of Sigmarine Dragons was hijacked by Somalian pirates at the behest of the President of Cuba while waiting for the Egyptians to clear that ship stuck in the Suez Canal. Obviously they're afraid we'll start buying cut rate dragons from Somalian Ebay.

So not mini related per se, but if the animation quality is as good as the cel, then this might get me to sub next year:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/10/05/your-first-look-at-blacktalon-the-new-series-for-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-coming-to-warhammer-next-year/

 Theophony wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
They don't have to say why or even accept any responsibility. Acknowledging there's an issue, saying they aren't happy either, and saying they will let us know as soon as they can would generate good will for barely any effort. Absolutely some people would complain--but they are complaining either way, there's no loss.

As you’ve admitted people will complain no matter what. So what is their upside? Good will? Any time GW tries for good will they get hammered. When the pandemic breaks out and they released a gaming store only model people and that they didn’t get one because some guy on eBay had 20 of them and their local shop got 2. When they do a free model with every xxx dollar you spend it “Why the is it yet another space marine or another Ultramarine?”.

Just like RIGHT NOW, people are complaining that GW isn’t saying things how I want them to or when I want them to or even bothering to come to DakkaDakka and apologize.

Get over it.

You want them to Take the time to say they won’t make the deadline. How about you let them focus their energy on figuring out how to get around all the obstacles with worldwide shipping being a cluster , not being able to get supplies because once again worldwide shipping from their suppliers is a cluster labor shortages because of social distancing, or at least here in the states because the government is paying people more money to sit at home and do nothing than to go and work. The employees they do have are tasked with specific roles, you are not going to see them have everyone load up their cars and start door to door delivery of kits. Why because someone would get their kit hours or days ahead of another person and then there would be the same and moaning coming from a small community.

GW might be the biggest dog in the wargaming industry, but if they were to go to a shipping company like Fedex or UPS and try to flex they are going to get laughed at and sent back to play with their toys. Ports are shut down or running behind, containers for shipping are next to impossible to get at a reasonable rate, and even if the boat that brings the stock to the US makes it on time GW releases product across the globe at a reasonably simultaneous time. The SCE dragons may have landed in The US, but because Australia is still two weeks out they are going to hold back everything so there’s less hurt.

They stated in an off hand way that even they are not immune to the effects of the pandemic, do you actually think they will say that it is specifically because of xxx? They will get crucified by all the armchair quarterbacks saying well that’s an easy fix, or I work in that industry and that answers a load of .

It’s a lose-lose situation for them to try and do the “Damage Control” that people are demanding. It’s just simply out of their hands. When it’s out of your hands and you try to explain and give answers and something else gets in your way and you have to explain that, then you start looking incompetent. GW doesn’t answer to us. GW answers to the stockholders. They need to be working on what they will say at the next shareholders meeting when and if they don’t make a new major increase in sales. Maybe you own shares, but unless you have enough to equate to more than a few percentage share of the whole your voice is meaningless.

Most everyone on this forum lives where they have a right to free speech and a right to ask questions, but I don’t know anyone here who has the authority to demand answers.

Okay, I can tell that you feel strongly on the matter. Certainly I have been misinterpreted, as the position you are responding to is not the one I expressed. At any rate, this is just too hyperbolic for reasonable discussion so maybe we can dial it back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
No ones asking for GW to commit to a time table, we're simply saying "it's obvious they didn't hit their planned release window, we'd LIKE to heear from GW"

Well GW has already said the chaos book isn't coming on initial time after all.

You want hourly updates? "Now it's on this and that lat/lon"

Man we don't even have monthly updates, where you pulling hourly from?

If anything, the need to resort to straw men to form a counter argument highlights the validity of the criticism.

@ninthMusketeer, Please don't feel like that is all directed at you, it's mostly the last two-three pages of people with the same complaints over and over. GW have responded as much as they are going to. I've been on the bandwagon before, but really it is getting silly now. They don't owe us an answers and the constant complaints are not going to get us anywhere. Lets get back to the News and Rumors (of upcoming releases, not what they are doing behind closed doors) and enjoy the HHHHHHobby instead of just venting angst.

I have seen a lot of people raise reasonable points that it would be better if GW issued some manner of communication. There's no angst over when we get the miniatures; people are irked at GW for not engaging with the community. Doubly so, because history has shown that everyone wins when they do. It is about news and GWs willingness to deliver it, so I hardly see it as off topic.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I have seen a lot of people raise reasonable points that it would be better if GW issued some manner of communication. There's no angst over when we get the miniatures; people are irked at GW for not engaging with the community. Doubly so, because history has shown that everyone wins when they do. It is about news and GWs willingness to deliver it, so I hardly see it as off topic.

The last time this came up I said they're damned if the do, damned if they don't. They may not have anything to tell. In the world of PR, saying nothing is a lot better than saying something that can be misconstrued or twisted to fit a narrative. You guys can keep complaining, but it won't change and most of the actual community, the majority who don't come to the internet don't care about the lack if comm traffic.

You keep using the word "complaining" to deliberately paint evidence-backed criticisms as being emotional rather than thought out. If you had a valid point, you wouldn't need to do that.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
You keep using the word "complaining" to deliberately paint evidence-backed criticisms as being emotional rather than thought out. If you had a valid point, you wouldn't need to do that.

To complain is to express annoyance at the state of events or situation one is in. You guys are expressing that you are annoyed at the fact GW has not communicated at all about the delays. The word fits perfectly.

Arguing semantics and trying to make us look like we don’t have a valid point .

*shrugs*

Just send a mail to GW customer service, you'll have an answer.

For the rest of us, we just wait. Nothing else we can do in our power, can't we.

I'm not bothered, means I can focus my attention on the miniatures I have yet to build and paint.


To be honest, there are distribution troubles everywhere. Even other miniature companies have some issues with it. Some communicate, others don't. And we even had a facebook outage recently.

Just tells me we're not back to the "normal world", in the end.

Snippet from WD seems to reinforce the rumours of new Minotaurs.

(as Minotaurs are a modern, albeit ugly, kit, my personal speculation is that these are not replacements but a new, buffed variant, like Stormfiends are to Rat Ogres)

They’re still a good 10 years old, possibly 12 now.

We might see an update kit to make them somewhat more AoS, and less Fantasy Generic?

Considering how the current Minotaur models got criticized for their appearance right from the beginning I have a hard time thinking of them as generic.

What I'd like to see is a new kit that makes them look like the Bloodbowl Minotaur. Start out naked for poor (beast)man's Minotaurs with weapons like the current ones and put bits on the sprue to upgrade them with heavy armor and professionally crafted weapons for a more organized, militaristic look akin to Chaos Warriors. Maybe even some god specific bits. Not sure how likely that is, though. GW isn't all that great at providing options anymore and for every kit they get right there's another five that aren't very inspiring.

I love me some mutated plastic chaos minotaurs. I have an army of them! (And minotaurs from mierce, Zenith, etc...)

But more minotaurs is always good, tought it would be a shame for them to be as generic as the bloodbowl minotaur.

heavy armored minotaurs tought I'm all for that. Theres a reason why Bestigors are so much cooler than normal gors.

Could also be a regiment of those :



Horns are pretty common amongst Chaos followers, after all. You don't have to go into beastmen to find them.

AN army of Ogroids would be very, very awesome

I'd be down for some ogroid units. Would rather see new minotaurs though.

 Theophony wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
You keep using the word "complaining" to deliberately paint evidence-backed criticisms as being emotional rather than thought out. If you had a valid point, you wouldn't need to do that.

To complain is to express annoyance at the state of events or situation one is in. You guys are expressing that you are annoyed at the fact GW has not communicated at all about the delays. The word fits perfectly.

Arguing semantics and trying to make us look like we don’t have a valid point .

Nah, I'm quite happy about the delays. I have previously expressed that I wished GW would ease up and slow down on the relentless release pace. While this isn't what I had in mind I am still glad things have slowed. I am just also capable of understanding there is a communication issue separate from my experience. I suppose the ultimate error in this discussion was mine, for assuming you were applying a degree of intellectual depth to the matter when clearly you have chosen not to.

But hey, you tell businesses that communication with their customers is bad and they should stop. Obviously you know more than they do.