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We've seen rumours of what's up in the new book, and we've seen some confirmations of those rumours. So we can be pretty sure of what we're getting.

So based off what we know, what are my fellow warbosses gonna bring to the table?

For competitive play, I'm liking Ghazgkull Thraka as a Warboss for my foot horde. Throw in 3 squads of 30 shootas with PK nobs and rokkits. Then add about 10-15 Lootas depending on price, 10-15 tankbustas likewise. throw in a Trukk with an Nobs mob if they're reasonable, and if there's points left over fill up on more shootas or maybe a few stormboyz. It should be able to take quite a few things. Power claw nobs in the mobs will scare off marines and TMCs pretty good. The mobs will be barrelling towards you at speed due to Ghaz's rumoured rules and the waaaagh rule. They'll hose you then hit you in HTH, closing the distance and only allowing you one turn of rapid fire.

Lootas, tankbustas and Nobs are there for threat neutralisation. Trukk lurks around an pounces on counter assault units. Since it's the only vehicle it will have to stay out of sight as all anti tank will be focused on it. Lootas hose hordes or carnifexes, tankbustas deal with armoured threats.

For casual play Ghaz gets dropped and maybe a few funkier units like the shokk attack gun or the wierdboy get thrown in. The basic idea of an infantry horde is still there.

I'll also play around with mechanised orks, for the laugh, and have a look at battlewagons. 

I think with Ghazgkull you're better off with Sluggaboyz since you lose two turns of shooting.

I wonder...
You weren't going to be shooting anyway for the first turn, just closing range. the you'll hit them with a volley at around 18" where they can't hit you, and slam into them next turn whether they advance and rapid fire or sit back and shoot. I like the extra flexibility and threat range on the shootas. Against better close combat troops, you could use the fleet to keep them at arms length for another turn of shooting or whatever.

On the other hand, 4 attacks instead of three and still some shooting...

I don't think you can fit as much in there as you think you can. I've been doing a lot of analysis on what the rumored costs are going to be, assuming things like Nob upgrades, weapon upgrades, and Power Klaws stay the same cost as now.

30 Shootas with PK Nob and 3 Rokkits will cost about 231 Points. That's a fair chunk, and at 1500 you're not fitting all that. The rumored cost of Ghaz is going to be 225 points! It's him vs. ANOTHER MOB OF 30 BOYZ! I don't see him being all that worth it. Also keep in mind that while shootas will be out of range on turn 1, Rokkits will not be. So always going for the extra move early on isn't always a good idea.

We have no idea what lootas or tankbustas are going to cost, but once you start adding in the cost of 4 mobs of 30 Boyz, you start to run out of room fast. Now when I start realizing how hard to handle the horde will be, and how it forces nearly every opponent into a defensive posture, you're going to need things to get there fast.

Trukks are one answer, but it's going to be hard to move trukks around when you're looking at cluttering up so much of the board with Boyz!

Zaagstruk comes in here, and with Storm Boyz rumored at 12pts/model, you're looking at 228 Points for 19 of em, and then the cost of Zaagstruk who comes with his own PK, given his current cost I'm going to wager he'll be clocking in near75 points or more, so you can safely assume about 300 for a Mob of Storm Boyz to get in there and liven things up a bit.

Plus when you think about it, looking at a horde of Shoota Boyz with PK nobz barreling down on you, literally making it hard to safely advance anywhere for your opponent, you need something to break into the few safe spots they're likely to occupy. That's where the Vulcha Squad comes in (ie Zaagstruk and StormBoyz).

After that, you either need to decide if you're going to do two Big Meks to give your horde KFF's or use a Biker Boss as another "guaranteed" assault unit that's pretty decent.

Still at 1500 Points you're looking at about 120 Shootas, 20 Storm Boyz, and then you've got some playing room.

Now there are other lists to build, but as far as the super-durable horde, I think that's going to be the core of it.

You're probably right about costs.
I'd drop a mob for the lootas/tankbustas though.
True about Ghaz's points, but the extra garaunteed 6" is soooo tempting.

Da Vulcha Squad look quite good, but I've never been a huge fan of deepstriking. They can hit anywhere in the opponents army pretty fast though.
The one unit I don't see a good use for is Flash Gitz in HS.
Probably be overcosted.

Frankly I think Zaagstuck is the new eldrad, all the competative lists will field him.  Deepstrike, fleet of foot, AND assault on the same turn? With a big enough squad with krak stikkbombs you can just about guarantee somethings dead.  And if you really wanted you could stick a big mek on a deafcopta with a forcefield and fly him over if they scatter too far.

I really like the lootas, I hope they are plastic kits, but my guess is metal.  I would like if possible to field 2 squads.  Against another horde army this would give me a nice boost, as I could play the defensive, then move in for the counter charge.  Plus it will be nice to actually have a regular unit in my army worth leaving in cover for a whole game.

I play a speedfreak build, I enjoy the color schemes as well as loads of cheap vehicles.  The new bikes make me sad, loosing most of there good rules and only dropping 5 points.  One more point of armor, but not worth it imo.  Having a battlewagon with a killcannon charging forward eating heavy weapons rounds for a turn or 2 could be big if you advance your trukks behind it.

All in all I will probably have 2 squads of 30 shootas, 1 squad of 30 sluggas, upgraded to ardboyz to give a decent save in hth. Zaagstuck and mabye 12 to 15 stormboyz only, to keep the deepstrike plate from scattering me to my doom. 2 squads of 10 lootas to take advantage of cover and kill light vehicles/carnifexes/hordes. A squad of tankbustas probably 10 strong.  I would like to field 2 mekboyz with kff (assuming they work the same or are even better, or even exist anymore at all) and 2 squads of trukkboyz, but I can't get an exact army detail yet as I dont know the points costs.  Battlewagons ARE going to be cheaper, so mabye substitute something in my army to put one in, as I have a killer conversion.

That being said and seeing the new trukk models, I am sorely tempted to buy 6, paint em up, and stick as many boyz inside as I can and make that the bulk of my army.  Effective? Mabye not but it sure looks fun.

heh. The new lootas are an excuse for me to crack out my old Deathskull Kustom Kombi Weapons.
Oh yeah. Nothing says Heavy D3 like a gun as big as yourself.

I'm making 60 shoota boyz now - they seem a sensible core troop choice (deployed in either 2 or 3 mobs) for almost any ork army, even one with a speedfreek or stormboy theme. But for the rest, I think I need to see the final codex details - a lot of the Cool stuff may have awkward army list limitations (e.g. I can't have 6 Shokk Attak Gunz? ) or be overly high in points.

I'm debating on the path I want to go with the Boyz. I can easily build two armies with some purchases out of what I own, a KoS with the new Trukks is tempting, but the hoard is so going to be the new awesome army with Orks.

Fun as KoS would probably be, taking Tanks and Trukk bound CC mobs, you're still stuck with the fact that they're just tanks and can be taken out fairly easily compared to a horde of Boyz.

I do agree that Zaagstruk is going to be the new Eldrad, been saying that for a while. What he brings to the short range horde of Shootas is incredible as he looks like a near guaranteed way to get a lot of Boyz stuck in and the hidden PK to put the hurt on nasties like Fex's or anything that likes to hide and put out lots of shots.

The sad part is that thinking about it, without the Power Weapon and only a Klaw, you're going to be better off with two Mek's with KFF's for HQ instead of the Warboss.

Can't wait for the dex, I may buy the army deal just to get the dex a month early.

I will definitely be playing Speed Freek army. I just can't resist the idea of all of those vehicles! I have to have a Shokk Attack Gun. I dunno about my other HQ. Maybe a Warboss on a bike? That'd be tough. Or maybe one of the special characters, as several of them seem appealing.

Without knowing point costs, its impossible to speculate. Unfortunatly I think some units are not going to be as cheap as we like to think they will be.

I know I'm going with mobile assault. I just really don't know what form its going to take yet.

Am I the only one considering actually doing the shooty horde of Boyz?

Right now I can take the mass of Orks I own either way, just not sure exactly which one yet. KoS is tempting, but it's still an army that's dependent on terrain to work out well and it's never going to be easy. The horde on the other hand, I think that's got some huge potential.

Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 10/06/2007 7:25 PM
Am I the only one considering actually doing the shooty horde of Boyz?

Right now I can take the mass of Orks I own either way, just not sure exactly which one yet. KoS is tempting, but it's still an army that's dependent on terrain to work out well and it's never going to be easy. The horde on the other hand, I think that's got some huge potential.

Im right there with you, I think shooty horde will be very effective.  Its more of a fun factor for me though.  Yes with 120 boyz and some anti tank it would be very effective, but look at all the fun stuff your missing.  I cant resist those new trukks, biggest vehicle improvement GW has done imo.  If I wanted to win at all costs, my army would probably be something like 2 mekboyz with KFF, 3 30 ork strong shoota boyz squads, Zaagstuck and a good amount of stormboyz , and probably 2 squads of loota boyz, and a tankbusta squad.  Dunno how it will handle mech eldar at this point.  But I can see that list being very effective overall.

Handling the Skimmer armies is going to be a real pain in the ass, but with things like Mech Eldar they blow all their points into the 3 Falcons + Cargo. With the horde of Boyz and no real Tanks to speak of it's going to be near impossible for those units to do any real damage.

The real clincher that will determine if Orks can really stick it out with the big lists is how many Vehicles can take the rumored Grabba Klaw upgrade, though that'll really only be good vs. Eldar, but they're the ones with the nastiest skimmers anyway. The new Lootas are also just going to be a sick little anti-skimmer unit.

Two words for you Voodoo Boyz: Tank Shock. I haven't read jack squat on Orks so far but if they have as much trouble dealing with tanks as they do now, Falcon tank shock is going to pwn you.

We're fearless when there are more than 10 Boyz in a mob. Tank shock a mob of shootas? Watch as I move all my boyz around, get the rear of the Falcon and unload.

One of the lovely things about Mech Eldar that I've found, especially at 1500 Points, is that they don't bring a ton of shots, they generally get the job done in assault (Spears, Bike-Tauch, Harlies via Falcon). Sometimes you see Warpsiders instead of the Spears, but they're not that hard to catch, especially if Zaagstruk is in tow.

The downside of Mech Eldar is the low Model Count and the fact that their shooting is geared towards anti-MEQ.

Take a look at some of the nastiest Mech Eldar lists you can make at 1500: http://www.dakkadakka.com/CommunityForums/tabid/56/forumid/14/postid/178887/view/topic/Default.aspx

Falcons are kept cheap, which means Shuriken Cannons = 24", which means inside Rokkit range, and probably well within Loota range the minute they're exposed.

Sure harlies can hurt a mob, but with no templates I'm going to keep the hordes nice and tight in formation to make sure I get my attacks back which will hurt the Harlies. They can't do enough damage and the mobs are close enough to counter charge.

And if Orks can get Grabba Klaws on Buggies, we can prevent Falcons from moving, and then shoot them with Rokkits/Lootas and then Falcons go Boom, and every time a Falcon goes Boom, somewhere out there a Nob gets his Power Klaw.

Posted By Sgt_Scruffy on 10/07/2007 1:34 PM
Two words for you Voodoo Boyz: Tank Shock. I haven't read jack squat on Orks so far but if they have as much trouble dealing with tanks as they do now, Falcon tank shock is going to pwn you.

Tank shock only works when a group has a leadership below 12, so first you have to kill 18 boyz from that squad.  And yes if grabba claws are allowed on buggies it will be the end of the line for mech eldar tourney domination.

I guess I should read about Orks before saying something stupid. Sorry, not up to date on the latest Ork goodness.

I'm going for shooty horde, definitely.
Mulling over what extra bits to add. I'd like some tankbustas and lootas. May have to drop the Nobs idea. It dilutes the horde anyway by using a trukk. If I'm going to deny my opponent a use for his anti tank guns I may as well go all out.

I haven't played the new eldar, but I think the new list has a couple of ways to deal with skimmers. The volume of fire the lootas will put out will be impressive, especially a large mob. Sitting in cover 48" away and they are a durable enough unit, especially since your opponent is going to want to kill the mobs running at him. Tankbustas will probably be pretty fragile, but the rokkits and boomsquigs look essential for taking down heavy armour (monoliths, landraiders) and superskimmers (hammerheads and falcons).
Once you can do that, I think you're fairly okay.

I'm thinking that ghazgull might be worth it if you're taking mostly slugga boys (instead of shoota boys).

Being able to fleet early, get the rokkit shots on the way in, and then get an 18" charge range, has huge potential. Granted you're going to miss out on a few shots, but in the long run, it shouldn't be that many. When your opponent realizes that you have 120 or 150 boys bearing down on him, he's going to back up toward his back table edge, meaning that the rokkits will be out of range the first turn (when you use your waagh fleet move). On subsequent moves, you can shoot your rokkits, and then on the last turn, you use the super-waagh to fleet through rapidfire range.

The real problem with this list is going to be that it won't saturate anyone's target list. You might put down 8 or 9 squads, but 6-7 sounds more likely. While you're able to spread out and cover the bulk of the table, most people will be able to focus a lot of fire on just a couple of squads. The "boys horde" will turn into a race: can the ork player get to close combat before the other player shoots the guts out of his army? Point for point, ork boys beat just about every other unit someone can put on the tabletop (when I did the napkin math hammer, the orks won every fight if they got to charge, and won nearly all if they were charged (they lost to a BA DC)).

I'm looking forward to the way that the boys horde will change the way that everybody builds their all-comers list.

Lots of pie plates, 36" pie is quite good enough and should be fairly cheap. With any luck some of them will be mounted on 1-3 per HS choice light vehicles.

Just a note, a rumor was confirmed on the-waaagh about Grabbin Klaws, they can indeed prevent skimmers (read: Falcons) from moving.

Essentially the vehicle the Klaw is mounted on can not move more than 12" in the turn it's going to use the Klaw. When within 2" of an enemy vehicle roll a D6, on a 4+ the Vehicle is caught and can not move the following turn.

That's not the exact wording, but that's the gist of it. No clarification if this can go on buggies or is trukk/BW only.

If they go on Buggies then I just found my next Fast Attack slot choices after the near compulsory Zaagstruk Storm Boyz Mob.

And while on Zaagstruk, that really is going to be the key to beating a lot of armies.

Look up a few posts in the Tactics forum on the Flying Circus Necron list. That list has the firepower and maneuverability to really damage the horde of Orks while staying out of retaliation range for the most part. How do you beat a mega-load of destroyers? Deepstrike and charge Storm Boyz that's how.

Zillas will also fall to it, and the mob will be critical to taking out the very few elements "not in a Falcon" in Mech Eldar, which can put the Orks on their way to victory against those lists.

I can't wait to see the detailed rules on it, but I think that this is going to be "it" as far as making the competitive Ork list that can take on anything. Them and Lootas, me thinks they're really going to be critical to the list as well.

I hope the model for Zagstrukk is suitably awesome.

I honestly haven't been this excited by a GW release in years.

Anyone got an estimate on the viability of 9 killa kans, 2 deff dreads, 2 big meks with kustom force fields, and some nobs riding in big gun laden battlewagons? The stompy ork armoured company!

Might be a bit of fun, but I doubt it would work that well.
Dreads and Kans are too easy to destroy.

for shootas vs ccw and slugga, i think a few things should be factored in
-boys no longer have choppas, just a ccw
-with ghazkull you might have NO opportunity to shoot.  Unless im adding this up wrong, 6" move first turn, +d6 fleet (you wont be in shoota range anyway). 2nd turn 6" move +6" auto fleet +6" assault.  Could very easily end up being 2nd turn assaults, with fleeting both turns preventing your horde from shooting.
-overall shoota flexibility, maybe some squads will have to run through cover do to lack of space, or there wont be enough space to get all of your mobs in combat, or maybe your opponent deployed too far away (especially cleanse), or they're army is too mobile to catch.  These mobs that are unable to get into combat could put down strong shooting, rather than just some rockits.

I think ghazkull + sluggas would be a very risky, but possibly very rewarding set up, where just taking shootas would be more secure, and less reliant on who your opponent is for success.  If you went with ghazkull and shootas you could just save your auto fleet for an OSHIT situation when you really need to floor it and get into combat, while otherwise moving up more steadily and shooting slowed amounts of shots.  Shootas also make the prospect of double mechs with KFF's more viable.

Because of ghazkull's overall cost, and the riskiness of the setup, i will probably do somthing like
2x mechs KFF and other goodies
3-4 mobs of 30 shootas, nobs with klaws and 3 rokkits
zagstruck+stormboyz
lootas+tankbustas
I dont think an army like this is past the realm of possibility in 1500/1750. 
expanding i would add some trukks and a battlewagon.

Little birds have hinted that lootas & tankbustas costs are comparable to an MEQ.

Going on that, I'm not so sure that the otherwise awesome lootas are going to be able to make it. Going on that, a Mob of 15 Lootas or Tankbustas is going to cost as much as a 30 strong Shoota Mob with PK nob and some special weapons.

That doesn't sound too bad to me. How much were you expecting for Orks with an autocannon each?

I'm not saying it's an unfair price, though a bit cheaper would have been pretty nice, 12 points maybe?

The problem is that they're so bloody vulnerable, I think a nice unit of 15 or so could work out at long range, it'll be fun for sure, but I don't think it'll work out "competitively" since they're so expensive to be hard to make redundant, unless you're talking really high point games where they may come in a bit better.

The loota's range will keep the bolters off em atleast, but will be pretty vulnerable to longer range  high RoF guns.  Something good come come of this though...if say a tac squad with a heavy bolter(yea right) shoots a loota squad, the bolters that could have been gunning down closer boys won't do anything.  It's not much but i try and look at the bright side of things...

Don't know if the same benefits will affect tank bustas if rokkits stay 24".

Although Voodoo is going for a super competitive ork army. He (and other people like him) will have to watch for precise unit configurations for each FO slot, and even one week link (which lootas may be) could make a large difference.  I think with this codex im just gonna play my orks to see my opponents face when i pick up 60 some dice from one squad of shootas...then tell him i have three more of the same.  I have my eldar to beat opponents senseless.