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Rumor has it that GW is done producing new material for LOTR but will continue to produce the books and minis until 2010 when the license expires. Too bad the Hobbit hits the movies in 2011 but maybe they'll come to another agreement about LOTR and extend for a long time to come. Just wondering if anyone could confirm these rumors.

Not sure what you mean by "new material." It would be in GW's interest to renew the license, and apparently they have something arranged with New Line for the Hobbit.

In most areas of the US, LotR doesn't sell that well. However I've been told by a bunker manager that LotR outsells WHFB in Europe.

New material means that the Mordor source book and the new minis are the last ones to be produced. no others will be done until the license is renewed. Im not sure if this is true thats why im posting this to try and get it verified.

You have got to be kidding me. Anyone from Europe able to give their own observations on popularity "over there" of LOTR vs. WHFB? Keeping in mind that the plural of anecdote is not data, of course

Would still be interesting to read.

LotR will be made as long as it is profitable.

It was a cash cow for GW, plain and simple. They made a huge 'blip' profit for the period where the films were being released, followed by a profit warning the year after RotK (the film) was released.

The main problem with LotR is that it has been done to death. Unlike 40k and fantasy, where GW own the intellectual property rights and can expand ad infinitum, LotR is bounded by the terms of the licence agreement.

If they have a tie-in deal with New Line to continue to produce stuff through any Hobbit release, then LotR is safe for the moment, but in the long run its doomed.

I can see it being relegated eventually to specialist game status (yay, free rulebooks! ) or simply sold off, moulds and all, to a company like FFG...

In the UK at least, LOTR is about as popular as eating razor blades. I actually think the game mechanic's good, some of the minis are nice, but it's just not got what makes 40k and fantasy great, that individualism and customisability.

The Red Shirts down here tell you it out sells the others though. No-one actually plays it if you ask around 'cept maybe a few kids. But I think it gets many of the miniature collectors coins.

Just the company lying to save face by the look of it.

It's hardly played in my local (manchester UK) though the minis are selling steady as said earlier it's the collectors who buy them as they are good and some of the older gamers who just shop in store but don't play in store

I don't know about outselling WFB, but I think it sells to a lot more basement gamers and mini collectors than WFB. They keep expanding the number of people at GTs and GDs in the tournies, and Jamie keeps increasing the number at Adepticon. Does it outsell WFB in the US? No, but it seems to hold a decent market.

In the last two years at Adepticon, playing 12 different people (2-man teams), I don't think anyone else played in any of the other tournies at Adepticon, and I think only 2 of our opponents played WFB or 40k.

In other words, it has it's own audience that the WFB and 40k crowd don't see.

I think it's an excellent game and superior to WFB (sorry, I don't like the magic mechanics - I think LotR and Fantasy Battle are both better). If Fifth Edition 40k hadn't come out, I'd probably be playing LotR and Hordes.

I don't think GW will drop the line. I think they have too much invested in it. Rumor is that next year there is a new boxset being released and a new 'big scale' army supplement. I think both of those could re-invigorate the line. I think the boxset will be Rohan vs. Isengard, with both of those armies getting new army books and some new minis.

GW basically re-launched the game with Legions of Middle Earth and took it from a scenario-driven game to a battle game. Making its focus a battle-game style (show up with X points, battle whoever) should keep the game going. Frankly, the Fellowship and even Two Towers versions of the game didn't sell it well. Games that are battle-games (with army lists and points values, etc.) tend to do well and stick around (Flames of War is easily the most successful historical game, and that's their format). I think a lot of people still remember the game of 4 hobbits and Aragorn trying to escape 4 ringwraiths and have never taken a serious look at it again.

Well the Elves are due out next for a new book and minis.

I've found in my (anecdotal) experience that a majority of the LotR players are much older and do not necessarily play at GW shops or LGS's. This may contribute to their perceived lack of presence in the gaming community.

If you think it's just little kiddies who play, then check out the thriving competitive communities on adeptuswindycity.com and thelastalliance.com.

Well im glad that rumor is squashed for the moment. I play all GW major three games and probaly own the most for LOTR, due to the price and ease of painting the models.

I love LOTR. I haven't played it in a while because I had an accident and a lot of my moria goblins got broken. But I'm looking forward to picking up that plastic troll kit at some stage.

Not only is LOTR still supported, and new releases coming out, GW requires it stocked as a core game for prize support for RT stores.

Good even better news.

I hope that the entire game and all rumors of it fall down into the pit of Mordor and are never seen again.

I can never understand people who hope vehemently for others to be unhappy for no gain to themselves.

warpcrafter wrote:I hope that the entire game and all rumors of it fall down into the pit of Mordor and are never seen again.

Then we'll fight in the shade!

Then we'll fight in the shade!

warpcrafter wrote:I hope that the entire game and all rumors of it fall down into the pit of Mordor and are never seen again.

Can't wait for that blessed day.

Man there are alot of people who hate this game system, perhaps they dont like that they have to control each person instead of each unit which might require less work and energy to move around the table top. I mean I could always go beat up on 40K and its short comeings but i have better things to do then act like a small child

dietrich wrote:Does it outsell WFB in the US? No, but it seems to hold a decent market.

In other words, it has it's own audience that the WFB and 40k crowd don't see.

GW basically re-launched the game with Legions of Middle Earth and took it from a scenario-driven game to a battle game.

How do you know LotR doens't outsell WFB in the US? Do you have the GWUS sales data? I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that LotR is GW's second-best selling core system, after 40k. Though, I know a lot of 40k (and especially WFB) players would be unhappy to hear that be true.

I completely agree with the separate audiences, and think a lot of it has to do with the sheer contempt expressed by the 40k / WFB crowd. If I were a LotR player, I'd be seriously offended.

This, of course, is no surprise to anyone. LotR is following the WFB and 40k design trajectory of starting with small skirmish, to larger skirmish, to regular battle. What is interesting is how smoothly the transition seems to be going. It's almost like GW learned something from the previous experiences.

This, of course, is no surprise to anyone. LotR is following the WFB and 40k design trajectory of starting with small skirmish, to larger skirmish, to regular battle. What is interesting is how smoothly the transition seems to be going. It's almost like GW learned something from the previous experiences.

You must be imagining things

nieto666 wrote:Man there are alot of people who hate this game system, perhaps they dont like that they have to control each person instead of each unit which might require less work and energy to move around the table top. I mean I could always go beat up on 40K and its short comeings but i have better things to do then act like a small child

Actually, we all played that game before.

It was called Fantasy Battles.

Rogue Trader.

Necromunda.

Inquisitor.

I could go on forever but do I really have to?

Those systems were not exactly fun.

They died or were changed because of that.

LOTR, well, it's a quite boring 20 man versus 15 man and a troll game.

Sorry, was I supposed to be impressed with this?

I'm quite happy to just collect the Harad models.

Mumak!

Oh don't get me wrong, I dig the models.

The game system? Been there, done that...in 88-92.

Never again!

Stelek wrote:

nieto666 wrote:Man there are alot of people who hate this game system, perhaps they dont like that they have to control each person instead of each unit which might require less work and energy to move around the table top. I mean I could always go beat up on 40K and its short comeings but i have better things to do then act like a small child

Actually, we all played that game before.

It was called Fantasy Battles.

Rogue Trader.

Necromunda.

Inquisitor.

I could go on forever but do I really have to?

Those systems were not exactly fun.

They died or were changed because of that.

LOTR, well, it's a quite boring 20 man versus 15 man and a troll game.

Sorry, was I supposed to be impressed with this?

Nope just trying to make a point thats all. I like necromunda personally and like the small scale battles, dont get me worng i love the huge battles of WFB. 40K is kool with me every once in a blue moon but warmachince and hordes those game systems rock.

It's cool if you don't like the game, but I don't understand why you'd want it to fail? That would be bad for GW, and make a lot of fairly inoffensive people unhappy. Just seems like a jerk reaction.
I quite like the way LOTR plays, especially the initiative and cavalry rules. I must track down the other lads and play it.

If LotR is outselling WFB (and I have no factual reason to think that this isn't the case), and is considered a "failure" that would warrant its cessation, then shouldn't GW close the WFB line as well?

Indeed, perhaps GW ought to simplify their product line down to "flavors of Space Marines" and "things for Space Marines to kill", and then shut down anything that doesn't fit nicely into either of the two categories...

I'm okay with the game system being different from Fantasy.

I wonder if it'll stay that way.

Hmm, I remember saying the same thing about 40k. The sheer desire (edit - to pick on) [for] something that seems to be utterly stupid to you can blind one to the fact that we're talking about commercial products marketted at specific audiences.

The cool thing about LotR - and where it might not mesh with GW's traditional strategy - is that the minatures are reasonably priced. The rumours I've heard hold it that New Line nixed any attempt by GW to spiral the price up at the typical rate. I could see GW stopping the range even prior to the license expiring because that is their style.

Bottom line, it's silly to have expectations for this company unless you're in love with disapointment.