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What would be a good thing imo would if they had made a proper Mordhiem version of Lotr because the one they made in White Dwarf is still used in my games shop and every so often a large campaign would be in session using the Mordhiem/Lotr rules.

Actually LOTR works beautifully in the Mordheim skirmish scale (a goblin warband against a coterie of dwarves, for example). It is actually a very solid rules set that is fun to play. I don't play it much (well, almost never anymore, really....), but really think those who grinch about it are probably just very sad people who don't understand that more people playing any Miniature Wargame is a good thing and are afraid it takes resources away from their Precious.

Stelek wrote:

nieto666 wrote:Man there are alot of people who hate this game system, perhaps they dont like that they have to control each person instead of each unit which might require less work and energy to move around the table top. I mean I could always go beat up on 40K and its short comeings but i have better things to do then act like a small child

Actually, we all played that game before.

It was called Fantasy Battles.

Rogue Trader.

Necromunda.

Inquisitor.

I could go on forever but do I really have to?

Those systems were not exactly fun.

They died or were changed because of that.

LOTR, well, it's a quite boring 20 man versus 15 man and a troll game.

Sorry, was I supposed to be impressed with this?

Pull the other one, it's got Bells on.

Despite it's simple rule system, LotR is a very good wargame with quite a lot of tactical depth. The might points really open it up to cunning and shrewdness. Expend your points at the right time, and you can stomp all over the enemy with relative ease. Good amount of variety in it as well in terms of troops, certainly more than the boring lameness of say, Warmachine (I really hate that system!). LotR lends itself very well to cinematic battles as well as small scale, objective driven skirmishes. IT's very easy to get a force together to play a few games, and has the scope of appeal to players to constantly add new stuff.

You know, I suspect you haven't played it in some time. I used to think it was a bit bobbins at first, when Fellowship came out. But, over time, particularly having taught how to play it during my employment with GW (which ended some years ago) I developed a healthy respect for the game. Do I play it? Not that much. I prefer the tactical style of Fantasy, so much so I don't even play 40k. I have an Uruk Hai army sitting at home which I always intend to paint, and I am certainly happy to play it if someone else fancies a change.

But boring it is not. Sure, it lacks the devastating weapons and characters (even Aragorn can only kill so much!) but that is it's appeal. You can't just sit back and gunline. You can't Magehammer or Herohammer your way to victory. At some point, you need to get stuck in. Despite not really having any specific rules for them, deploying your troops in a Phalanx makes them *really* hard. Superior numbers can really count for something when you start trapping superior foes, ensuring that when you eventually win a combat, it really counts. Add in the Turn sequence, and the random assigning of who moves when in each turn (well, which player anyways) and you have a tactical appealing game.

BUt of course. I must be wrong. I'm expressing a positive opinion on the Interwebs!

If GW had a genuine desire to bring the bacon of their shareholders out of the fire, they'd renegotiate the licencing deal and work LotR figures the way they currently work the Daemons of Chaos - with rules for the same pieces in both WHFB and LotR - affiliated systems. The Perry brothers sculpts rank up beautifully IMHO.

Tangentially (for those of you still in high school or visiting from countries where English is a second language at best, this means "off topic") word on the street is that the fix is in on the share price drops. I'm sure glad I don't own'em. Southam woulda been a better buy lol.

People want LoTR to fail because they feel that it takes resources (money, sculptors, personnel) away from their two main systems, 40k and Fantasy. So, if LoTR fails, they do gain something. Like FAQs. Maybe. Probably not. This may be true to an extent, but I am doubtful 40k or fantasy lost very much.

I've never played the game, I can barely afford to keep up with the two I do play. So, I'm pretty indifferent if it continues or not. I may benefit more if it goes the way of the dodo, but I doubt it would be that much.

Funny. LotR is keeping the business afloat as much as the other two games.... But of course, the Interwebs said it failed so it failed.

Never mind it outstripping expectation to the point of paying for itself halfway through the Fellowship of the Ring when it had been forecast to do so at the end of Return of the King's cinema run. That's clearly indicative of just how big a failure it was :rolleyes:

I bought that plastic troll.
It's beeeoootiful.

Rated G wrote:People want LoTR to fail because they feel that it takes resources (money, sculptors, personnel) away from their two main systems, 40k and Fantasy. So, if LoTR fails, they do gain something. Like FAQs. Maybe. Probably not. This may be true to an extent, but I am doubtful 40k or fantasy lost very much.

Yes, LotR takes away a little bit of resources, but it's self-sustaining, so I don't see the problem. I don't think 40k or Fantasy lost anything really. If GW makes money on LotR (and I believe GW does), then that's good because more total resources become available.

LOTR involved the hiring of new people to do rules and stuff specifically for LOTR if I remember correctly.

I live in the US. Other than demo games, I have never seen it take off but I do like the figs and the system does seem to be more of a thinking game. If some in our area would start a small league I would be inclined to try it out. The fear of dropping support is probably the one thing that keeps people from trying it. ... memories of Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Gorka Morka, Battlefleet Gothic, Epic 40k come to mind.

I play 40k mostly because that is all that our area has any consistent players. There are things about it that are simplistic and uber-gaminess abounds. I don't think LOTR has gamey lists as there are weaknesses to any and all the lists you could build. The neat part is all the lists have a decent balancing point against the others. (And there isn't a sick feeling everytime they rewrite a codex.)

But who knows? Given enough time I am sure GW can mess it up or kill it out of hand.

I dont get what you all have against LOTR on Arran here thats all the guys play (apart from me I mainly play 40k) I play it to sometimes and its great fun. We have 4 massive tables. 5 meter long Mines of Moria, Helms Deep Rivendell Plains and more. Its like the guys from Podhammer saying 40K is a childs Game, Which it is not.

Da Boss wrote:LOTR involved the hiring of new people to do rules and stuff specifically for LOTR if I remember correctly.

Nope, there were just shifts within the various departments, if you look at the book's credits, there's no one there that's not listed in another GW book of the same time frame.

Hmmm. I was pretty sure I hadn't seen some of the dudes involved in Legions of Middle Earth before, but I don't pay attention to the staff that much.

A few OZ facts on LotR, At least in my part of the woods their are more Guilds runing (on a Regular basis) LotR than 40K & WHFB combined (In fact many where started as LotR Clubs), at my three closest stores LotR out sells WHFB, at Gen Con OZ LotR had a bigger Tornie event than WHFB.

But for my local Orctoberfest GW isn't running LotR, one of the local Guilds is, a dozen Guilds where scrambling for the rights to run it, and so far Pre-Registration for LotR is out striping WHFB.

LotR isn't Dead, it's just their running out of Material so GW is carefully doling out what they have left, their are Collectors and Compleatests that I've talked to that are cheesed off that their is nothing new (of note) in the latest releases except a few new Sculpts (that their skipping because their asking "how many Aragorns do you really need?").

Despite lots of Grumbling their are lots of guys that won't stop playing despite a number of Flaws they precise in the game.

I've never played LOTR but did buy the Mines of Moria Boxed Set (too good to miss). I am fond of the idea that I will paint up that set in the future and play some well-loved games with it one-on-one. I am not ready to buy more models for it at this time, though I have always loved Moria and could see myself picking up a Balrog, some Dwarves, and maybe a couple more Cave Trolls at some point. I also would love to create a board made just for Mines of Moria.

Of course, that's all in the far future, it seems. For now for me, it is Orks all the time baby!

Solorg

I was reading in white dwarf today that the dude who wrote the Space Marine codex used to be LOTR only.

from what i have been told thier re doing the game to take it away from a skirmish game to a game more in line with WFB in other words big scale engagements, still i got hooked on the game for a while when Fellowship was released but at that time the game was pretty much i have the fellowship, you have goblins and saruman and lets see who wins...and then of course it in some ways broke down to who can roll the most sixes in a game, that being said i like the minis, not as much as fantasy or 40k (40k being my favourite mini line but i prefer the fantasy game) and with that being said i dont have enough time to paint them let alone the 4 armies ive got unfinished atm

Yeah, i've heard that they're releasing a set of rules for a big skirmish LotR game as well 99M. It sounds a bit like warmaster where you have lots of models together, and your main heroes on their own giving orders. I've heard minor heroes (eg. ugluk) will be in the unit.
They're also releasing a "big monster" soon. My guess would be a stone giant, or maybe a cave drake.

hmmmm sounds interesting i might have to get back into lotr i played up to when mines of moria was re released. then i was broke.

its interesting to see what they do with the game as new rules are confirmed however what they are remains to be seen, if the rules prove awesome then i will be tempted to start up an army again, but i will have to wait and see, the models are nice, its just the game just isnt enjoyable i think their is too much focus on the heroes and named and to some extent un-named characters and as some of my friends call it 'Lord of the 6's"

I just gave up lotr for 40k. Just got tired of the straight forward gameplay. The outcome was always to predictable and every army was the same. I still kept all my stuff, just in case some day...

Granted it has its quirks, but I hope it isn't done for. I've got plenty of figures in various stages of completion, and have fun when I get around to playing

There's always massed battles...

Yup. It's been kind of announced on the back page of the latest UK White Dwarf as 'War of the Ring'

Not much more to go on at the moment, but seems the logical progression!

Stelek wrote:Oh don't get me wrong, I dig the models.

The game system? Been there, done that...in 88-92.

Never again!

Oh Stelek, Stelek, Stelek...

*sighs*

What am I to say other than "your opinion is your own"?

Ignorant bigotry does not become you mate.

LotR is not to everyone's tastes, but then neither is any other game. It took 20 years and 5 redrafts before 40k became a game system that I would touch with a bargepole. WFB after 30 years still hasn't managed it for me. Yet LotR held my attention from draft 1 until around a year ago when I finally decided it was time to move on and broaden my horizons.

You have your experience and I have mine.

Frankly I view LotR as a far superior piece of technical game design than either 40k or WFB. But each to their own.

The simple fact that LotR (and its derivites such as LotOW) is the ONLY GW game to be given wide credence by historical gamers, who tend to laugh 40k out of court and only tolerate WFB in its bowdlerised WAB format, speaks volumes to me. Its certainly the only GW cores system which emphasises tabletop-tactics as providing a more important element to winning games than either list design and deployment, both of which play a much greater part in winning at WFB and 40k.

As for the OP comments, LotR will be around as long as people keep buying the product, and it seems that LotR-buyers are holding steady, as far as anyone can tell with the limited information available outside of GW. Rumours of its demise are more likely simply the expressed wishes of the bigots than any real information.

The fact that it is not well-played in many GW stores says more about the ignorant bigotry faced by LotR fans at the hands of friendly chaps like our Stelek here, rather than the popularity of the game itself. I could say that it is my experience that most players of LotR tend to be either younger or older than the teenage average that is apparent in most stores, and therefore either play at home or in private clubs, rather than the stinking pubescent mosh-pit that is all-too-often the norm for a GW store.

And for the record, plastic Ents and plastic Army of the Dead are slated for release in the first half (possibly Quarter) of next year. Doesn't look like a dead system to me!

I can't wait for plastic ents. It could herald a new age and a new world order for Da Boss- playing a damn elf army...

I've made this comment before, and possibly even in this thread, but the last two years at Adepticon, probably 3/4 of the LotR players did not play any other GW game at Adepticon (some of them middled in 40k or WFB, but weren't active tourney players).

LotR has its own market, for the most part. That's good.

It's like all the people who complained about their FLGS selling pokemon cards and pulling in kids. Hey, it was a bit of a nuisance, but if they make money, they stay in business. If they don't make money, they go out of business.

System envy is a bit of a wierd phenomenon.

Osbad wrote:Oh Stelek, Stelek, Stelek...

Um, you're aware that he can't answer you because he's been permabanned, right?

Da Boss wrote:I can't wait for plastic ents. It could herald a new age and a new world order for Da Boss- playing a damn elf army...

Depends how fugly they are.