Is this guy a scammer or legit? (ebay) ( newer scams now Feb 4 2009 and going!)

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**LunaHound**

I was browsing through ebay, and noticed this seller ( wont reveal the name incase its invasion of privacy )

But i noticed the guy sells ( incomplete kits of Rhino / Landraider Variants ) this is the pattern i noticed:

-Uses pics of full kits , Redeemer , Predator , etc etc .
-States the kit is COMPLETE
-States the number of plastic frames ( his excuse for not including the upgrade frames because buyer
might not know the total of frames involved )
-Later state the pic is for reference only
-Includes a tiny pic of what he is telling / stacked frame too small too see details or how many.
-Finally states the frames are bases for building the Redeemer , Predator , Whirlwind .
-Example i found for recent auction ( a complete Rhino ) , later he admits he stated it to be missing accessory sprue.
( weird i dont see it saying missing anything )

*SS of his original auction / feed back from other customer.

NOTICE** This is NOT part of his original sale description THIS IS *screen shot of his later reply
to a Negative FEED BACK**

**Sidstyler**

"Ignorance is no excuse"...indeed. You caught him in a lie right there, a "complete" kit is COMPLETE, with all sprues.

**LunaHound**

Sidstyler wrote:"Ignorance is no excuse"...indeed. You caught him in a lie right there, a "complete" kit is COMPLETE, with all sprues.

I just feel sorry for the other buyers , this caught my attention as i almost
placed a bid on his redeemer that was ending now.

and nono , he called the Buyer Ignorant.

**Joyous_Oblivion**

I have seen his auctions before, never seemed bad to me, the description he gives lets you know you need a vehicle accessory sprue to finish the kit, but otherwise the the tank is complete.

I'm not sure If I read about this guy on Warseer, or here on Dakka, but he has history, and seem to be pretty decent.

**LunaHound**

Joyous_Oblivion wrote:I have seen his auctions before, never seemed bad to me, the description he gives lets you know you need a vehicle accessory sprue to finish the kit, but otherwise the the tank is complete.

I'm not sure If I read about this guy on Warseer, or here on Dakka, but he has history, and seem to be pretty decent.

Im not seeing in the description of him stating the part i underlined.
thats what the buyer complained about, and he also claimed he wrote it, but im not seeing it.

**with an iron fist**

LunaHound wrote:I was browsing through ebay, and noticed this seller ( wont reveal the name incase its invasion of privacy )

But i noticed the guy sells ( incomplete kits of Rhino / Landraider Variants ) this is the pattern i noticed:

-Uses pics of full kits , Redeemer , Predator , etc etc .
-States the kit is COMPLETE
-States the number of plastic frames ( his excuse for not including the upgrade frames because buyer
might not know the total of frames involved )
-Later state the pic is for reference only
-Includes a tiny pic of what he is telling / stacked frame too small too see details or how many.
-Finally states the frames are bases for building the Redeemer , Predator , Whirlwind .
-Example i found for recent auction ( a complete Rhino ) , later he admits he stated it to be missing accessory sprue.
( weird i dont see it saying missing anything )

*SS of his original auction / feed back from other customer.

*ss of his later reply

Based on what you've shown? Maybe they're scammer legit? Maybe not at all? Maybe one or the other? The cupola bits are needed to close off the top of the tank, but that's not the entire sprue so - maybe both parties are legit scammers?

**Joyous_Oblivion**

Because you posted pics, I cannot copy what he said...but he clearly states you DO NOT get a vehicle accessory sprue, and the parts provided will let you make the Chassis, Hull and left/right tracks.

You get a complete rhino, as the vehicle accessory sprue isn't a mandatory part of the kit, just accessories. Read his description.

**LunaHound**

@with an iron fist

i just took screen shots of his auction ( nothing missing )

and the 2nd screen shot is for negative feed back from his
customer , as well as his reply.

*PS I still dont see anywhere of the original auction stating its missing accessory sprue .

**LunaHound**

Joyous_Oblivion wrote:Because you posted pics, I cannot copy what he said...but he clearly states you DO NOT get a vehicle accessory sprue, and the parts provided will let you make the Chassis, Hull and left/right tracks.

You get a complete rhino, as the vehicle accessory sprue isn't a mandatory part of the kit, just accessories. Read his description.

Im not seeing it lol , where did he state there isnt accessory sprue?

**Joyous_Oblivion**

...last line in his description...

(for clarification purposes, you will not be receiving a vehicle accessory sprue with this auction)

**Polonius**

Is this guy a scammer? No, because you do get what the auction says. A lot of bidders do read a little more into "complete" or "like new" than some buyers expect. For example, i sold a lot of tau drones that I listed "new on sprue" or in some similar language. I also made it clear that the items in the picture were what they were bidding on. The buyer eventually left negative feedback because I didn't include the flying bases. His argument was that new drones include flying bases.

That said, this guy is clearly trying to be misleading. The warstore makes a brisk business selling rhinos w/o the accessory sprue, and they're very upfront about it. Was the buyer cheated? No, but I'd avoid this seller if he's the kind to play games like that for a few extra bucks an auction.

**LunaHound**

Joyous_Oblivion wrote:...last line in his description...

(for clarification purposes, you will not be receiving a vehicle accessory sprue with this auction)

Bravo on his part . seriousely bravo. sneaking that last line into the S&H description

**Polonius**

Frankly, if it's not something that's still new in box, I want to see a picture or I don't bid. I also tend to avoid any seller that looks too "professional." I've never really gotten screwed as a buyer on eBay thanks to that approach, but I've passed on a lot of auctions.

**Joyous_Oblivion**

Polonius wrote:Frankly, if it's not something that's still new in box, I want to see a picture or I don't bid. I also tend to avoid any seller that looks too "professional." I've never really gotten screwed as a buyer on eBay thanks to that approach, but I've passed on a lot of auctions.

I for one look for people who look professional. Chances are they have been doing it enough they don't f*ck you over on things. Its the random people with only a little feedback that I am very wary about. Professional sellers tend to make some or all of their income like this so it is in their best interest to run things legitimately.

Just my $0.02 though.

Lunahound wrote:Bravo on his part . seriousely bravo. sneaking that last line into the S&H description

You are now getting mad he actually did what he claimed he did? I guess you can't please everyone...

**LunaHound**

Joyous_Oblivion wrote:
Polonius wrote:Frankly, if it's not something that's still new in box, I want to see a picture or I don't bid. I also tend to avoid any seller that looks too "professional." I've never really gotten screwed as a buyer on eBay thanks to that approach, but I've passed on a lot of auctions.

I for one look for people who look professional. Chances are they have been doing it enough they don't f*ck you over on things. Its the random people with only a little feedback that I am very wary about. Professional sellers tend to make some or all of their income like this so it is in their best interest to run things legitimately.

Just my $0.02 though.

Lunahound wrote:Bravo on his part . seriousely bravo. sneaking that last line into the S&H description

You are now getting mad he actually did what he claimed he did? I guess you can't please everyone...

no im not really mad as im not the buyer . but to sneak a line like that after he made the item descrption and sneaking it into
the S&H section is pretty amusing. IMO atleast, if he wasnt trying to hide that line , he could easily have stated behind the ( This is a complete Rhino Kit with missing accessory sprue )
instead of what you see.

But of course, legally hes at 0 fault , just the ethic is shady.

**Polonius**

@ Joyous: I should have been clearer in my remark about professionalism. I've dealt with pros, but I tend to buy the real used lots that individuals sell.

Right or wrong, it's really hard to argue that the guy wasn't trying to be misleading. Did he include what he said? Of course. Was he trying to trick people? I think it's pretty clear that he was.

**Joyous_Oblivion**

Polonius wrote:@ Joyous: I should have been clearer in my remark about professionalism. I've dealt with pros, but I tend to buy the real used lots that individuals sell.

Right or wrong, it's really hard to argue that the guy wasn't trying to be misleading. Did he include what he said? Of course. Was he trying to trick people? I think it's pretty clear that he was.

I don't think at all he is trying to mislead people. If you can't be bothered to read a full listing, why are shopping on ebay, let alone be allowed to have a credit card. (this is not directed to you Polonius, just morons who don't read and then bitch when their stupidity comes back to bite them in the ass.

**Swordbreaker**

If it's got your worried enough that you have to post on a forum asking if it's legit or not, then I'd say that's your first really big clue not to buy from this guy.

As an aside, when you see people selling just the sprue, these are knock-off recasts made from a mold of the original sprue. We've been seeing tons of these all over e-bay for a while now. Because the cost of GW's kits has skyrocketed so badly it's created huge profit margins for these remolded knock-offs. Chances are at this point, it if came off e-bay and not in box, then it's a made-in-China recast.

**insaniak**

Whether or not he's doing it deliberately, the listing is misleading, particularly for anyone not familiar with the break-up of the sprues.

A rhino without the accessory sprue is not a complete kit, since it doesn't include all of the parts required to actually build a complete rhino.

Anyone not aware that the hatches and storm bolter don't come on the rhino sprues is going to think (because he says as much) that they're getting a complete kit when they're not.

**Polonius**

Joyous_Oblivion wrote:

I don't think at all he is trying to mislead people. If you can't be bothered to read a full listing, why are shopping on ebay, let alone be allowed to have a credit card. (this is not directed to you Polonius, just morons who don't read and then bitch when their stupidity comes back to bite them in the ass.

Do you honestly believe that he isn't trying to mislead people? I'm not saying he's defrauding them, but do you really think the way he posts his auctions has nothing to do with making people think they're bidding on a complete kit?

I think he's trying to play gotcha. I think people should read an entire auction, and that anybody that didn't get their part learned a lesson, but there's no reason not to simply state: "you are bidding on a rhino kit missing the accesory sprue," rather than list that it includes the hull, the tracks, etc.

**LunaHound**

Swordbreaker wrote:If it's got your worried enough that you have to post on a forum asking if it's legit or not, then I'd say that's your first really big clue not to buy from this guy.

As an aside, when you see people selling just the sprue, these are knock-off recasts made from a mold of the original sprue. We've been seeing tons of these all over e-bay for a while now. Because the cost of GW's kits has skyrocketed so badly it's created huge profit margins for these remolded knock-offs. Chances are at this point, it if came off e-bay and not in box, then it's a made-in-China recast.

I always thought how long it would take before the rips offs for warhammer would be caught on by them,
how did you come across they have been doing it on ebay o_o are there any tips on the casts it self
that makes it clear / noticeable ?

**insaniak**

Swordbreaker wrote:As an aside, when you see people selling just the sprue, these are knock-off recasts made from a mold of the original sprue.

Given the costs of plastic tooling, I would seriously doubt that. Metal recasts pop up on eBay quite often. Plastics? I've never come across any, nor heard of anyone who has received such a thing.

At the very least, I know the sprues I've sold certainly haven't been knock-offs... at least unless someone in GW's warehouse is tampering with stock.

Most of the sprues on eBay come from people buying Battle Force or Army boxes and splitting them up.

**LunaHound**

insaniak wrote:Whether or not he's doing it deliberately, the listing is misleading, particularly for anyone not familiar with the break-up of the sprues.

A rhino without the accessory sprue is not a complete kit, since it doesn't include all of the parts required to actually build a complete rhino.

Anyone not aware that the hatches and storm bolter don't come on the rhino sprues is going to think (because he says as much) that they're getting a complete kit when they're not.

thank you this is what i tried to say.

that and the seller took part of the item description , and stuck it towards the end where his s&h description is . is just weird isnt it?

**Joyous_Oblivion**

Lunahound wrote:
no im not really mad as im not the buyer . but to sneak a line like that after he made the item descrption and sneaking it into
the S&H section is pretty amusing. IMO atleast, if he wasnt trying to hide that line , he could easily have stated behind the ( This is a complete Rhino Kit with missing accessory sprue )
instead of what you see.

But of course, legally hes at 0 fault , just the ethic is shady.

Yeah I didn't mean you're mad...but he included the wording in the description paragraph...not the shipping and handling section (which is usually at the bottom of all listings btw), not sure where you got that.

**LunaHound**

Joyous_Oblivion wrote:
Lunahound wrote:
no im not really mad as im not the buyer . but to sneak a line like that after he made the item descrption and sneaking it into
the S&H section is pretty amusing. IMO atleast, if he wasnt trying to hide that line , he could easily have stated behind the ( This is a complete Rhino Kit with missing accessory sprue )
instead of what you see.

But of course, legally hes at 0 fault , just the ethic is shady.

Yeah I didn't mean you're mad...but he included the wording in the description paragraph...not the shipping and handling section (which is usually at the bottom of all listings btw), not sure where you got that.

this is what i meant :

The typical description paragraph.
Pink = Item details
Blue = Seller info
Green = Item S&H details

Almost every ebay sales is garaunteed to follow similar paragraphs like this.
and its so weird he stuck the last line ( back in pink ) behind the s&h line right

**Joyous_Oblivion**

Ok, its not standard, but I don't see how that labels him shady and underhanded...if anything it labels potential buyers as stupid...

**insaniak**

Joyous_Oblivion wrote:Ok, its not standard, but I don't see how that labels him shady and underhanded...if anything it labels potential buyers as stupid...

It's shady if he's aware of the fact that people are misled by his listing, and doesn't do anything to change that.

A good seller doesn't take advantage of a potential customer's stupidity. They try instead to ensure that even the less cluey customers understand exactly what it is that they are buying.

Trust is a very important commodity for an online business.

**LunaHound**

Joyous_Oblivion wrote:Ok, its not standard, but I don't see how that labels him shady and underhanded...if anything it labels potential buyers as stupid...

well sorry, i guess i just wanted to help voice opinions from the stupid group T-T

**wash-away**

lol like last christmas when a guy sold a psp, box for just under a hundred.

its a legitimate sales tactic i think. just like the pop ups that are adds for pop up blockers.
or the guy on 25th street that stabs people and sells them first aid kits.

**Zip Napalm**

I think if this would have been me as buyer and the seller told me I should have read the whole thing. I would have felt really stupid for not paying attention.

Read the fine print and buyer beware.