Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So it's been a while now with the new edition and I think it's time to discuss who's who in the power rankings.

Orks are there to stay that much is for sure, but how about the rest? And who's number one in your opinion and why? What kind of tourny results/reference??

Oh Oh, I want to be the guy in this discussion that argues that we can't know what armies are truly more powerful because there is no empirical evidence that we even exist! It all goes back to Descartes who postulated "I think, therefore GW has balanced the game perfectly, learn to play."

I was hoping to be the guy who says he plays for fun and challenge, not to always win, so such things are not important to him, but who always posts in these threads anyway, just to look good. Can I be that guy?

Dark Eldar have got to be on top simply because their most effective foil, Imperial Guard, are on the utter bottom.

Hey I'll be the 'there are no overpowered codecies' only 'overpowered lists'

Reaver83 wrote:Hey I'll be the 'there are no overpowered codecies' only 'overpowered lists'

No you'll be eating all the pies fatty

migsula wrote:Orks are there to stay that much is for sure, but how about the rest? And who's number one in your opinion and why? What kind of tourny results/reference??

I agree about Orks. Nasty in the 'ard boyz tourney and local tournies. Quite probably the scariest out there right now...

...until Vulkan Hestan came along. That list when properly tweaked is quite frightening. Nowadays, if you proscribe to the notion that Vulkan can use sisters allies and apply his rules to them, makes a mockery of orks. Utterly.

Good question.

But what's the answer?

*laughing*

There isn't an army that is more powerful than another army in my humble opinion. There ARE generals that are more powerful than others. I'm a Tau player, and I win far more often than I lose. Its not because Tau are better than other armies, but because I'm a crafty and tactically superior player.

Moz wrote:Oh Oh, I want to be the guy in this discussion that argues that we can't know what armies are truly more powerful because there is no empirical evidence that we even exist! It all goes back to Descartes who postulated "I think, therefore GW has balanced the game perfectly, learn to play."

But wasn't it Nietszche who once said,

"God is dead, and so are your completely obsolete armies."

Yes, but i believe Aristotle phrased it more elequently when he said "It is in justice that the ordering of society is centered, and the armies given new codexes"

I really think that the movie marine list wins all games so there is no point to a list which goes

1) movie marines
2) Everybody else

Chaos space Marines in a good general's hands are very powerful indeed. Nidzilla can toast most builds, Nob Bikers can cause issues, Loota Spam can bring down anything that isn't Mech Heavy.

In general Vulkan is not allowed to twin link Sisters or Strormtroops weapons in the tournament I played in, however a large dread drop list might be fun with him.

sourclams wrote:Dark Eldar have got to be on top simply because their most effective foil, Imperial Guard, are on the utter bottom.

The truth hurts











PS. At least IG is better than Radical DHs

Agh, the return of this thread. Here's the trinity.

Orks, Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Daemons.

Those are the three strongest codexes.

40kenthusiast wrote:Agh, the return of this thread. Here's the trinity.

Orks, Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Daemons.

Those are the three strongest codexes.

I'd add Nidzilla at the 2nd or 3rd position.

Nidzilla doesn't have enough troops to really compete effectively at a high tourney level. Without tons of gaunts to shield MCs and take objectives, Nids die decently fast. Of course, there's always stealer shock

Consistantly the most powerful force on any table...

Is that a Bio-Titan?

No, it's a new 40k race based off of a couple of Futurama episodes.

The Big Brainz!!!

New Codex, new army domination.

There are so many criteria, descartes not withstanding (nice) that this is largely academic. I will however bite, and try and produce a decent list:

Indeed? How about this (broken into 2 halves, in order from best to worst):

Demons - Pretty much have their own way to break most of the rules of the game, missions and set up, eternal warrior, all fearless, all invulnerable, awesome troops
Orks - To many rules breaking units, trucks, morale, extra HQ level chars in squads, lootas, helped a lot by TLOS and CC rules
Witch Hunters - Very Adaptable with Faith Points, Book of St. L. the best single piece of wargear in the game, better than fearless, awesome troops, good CC
Chaos Marines - Many powerful combos, Lash, plague marines et. al. awesome troops
Space Marines - Many good combinations, characters and special rules, awesome troops, combat squad an amazing dynamic power, Chapter Tactics beneficial
Tyranids - Marginaly powerful with some builds, lack of transport, deep strike and speed hurts them, lack of decent troops hurts them, no antitank, the last of the good armies

Eldar - The best of the bottom half of the barrel, good speed, skimmer roles changed, anti tank hard to come by, troop choices all have major weaknesses
Necrons - Hurt very badly by CC rules, gauss rules changed, anti tank hard to come by, morale rules hurt them, no take ground units, mobility an issue, image problem (players don't like them)
Demon Hunters- An outdated codex that, Ironicaly can't even fight, new Demons? No antitank, decent troops, a strange outdated dex
Tau - Hurt very badly by the new CC and morale rules and vehicles in CC, no artillery, no decent CC units at all, few ground taking units, Attached drone units bleed KP
Dark Eldar - Destroyed by TLOS and no armor in CC, nearly unplayable under the current CC morale and TLOS rules.
Guard - KP nightmare, hurt by the CC rules, hurt by missions, hurt by TLOS, hurt by morale rules, no take ground units, no assault ability, the worst army in 5th

I wouldn't put WHs in the top tier but BA lead by the Dante/Corbulo combination is.

G

Woah woah.....most over powered army?

Squats...


GW feared them so much they had to remove them, but the true followers still bust out the midgets

deamon hunters? bad? we can premeausre(targeter)
have weapon servs, orbital bombardments, Storm troopers for cheap, best psychic powers, the old psychic hoods, not to mention we can take Sm as allies.

GoFenris wrote:Consistantly the most powerful force on any table...

HAH! As if anybody would bother with caring around the glass jar containing Abby Normal. (that's for all you Mel Brooks fans.)

I am supprised no one put a DA Dualwing army up there. I know it is nowhere near the best, but with all scoring Termies and Bikes it is a pretty nasty army, especially in the 2k point range.

I think dual wing is very powerful too but it requires a lot of skill to play and win consistently. To me and my way of thinking top tier lists are no brainers.



G

Augustus wrote: I will however bite, and try and produce a decent list:

Thanks man! I agree with most of that - what I am curious about it empirical data about tournaments and thoughts of setups. Curious more than anything - I totally understand other related factors, but truth remains, in the hands of skilled generals some armies constantly out do others.

I think Daemons still benefit from lack of experience to fight them.

The Vulkan Cheese-tan List I think is the most powerful followed by Nob bikers, CSM Lash, and Daemons.

Maxed out Termies with 2+/3+ saves and rerolls on Thunderhammers is sick and hard to beat.

Augustus wrote:There are so many criteria, descartes not withstanding (nice) that this is largely academic. I will however bite, and try and produce a decent list:

Indeed? How about this (broken into 2 halves, in order from best to worst):

Demons - Pretty much have their own way to break most of the rules of the game, missions and set up, eternal warrior, all fearless, all invulnerable, awesome troops
Orks - To many rules breaking units, trucks, morale, extra HQ level chars in squads, lootas, helped a lot by TLOS and CC rules
Witch Hunters - Very Adaptable with Faith Points, Book of St. L. the best single piece of wargear in the game, better than fearless, awesome troops, good CC
Chaos Marines - Many powerful combos, Lash, plague marines et. al. awesome troops
Space Marines - Many good combinations, characters and special rules, awesome troops, combat squad an amazing dynamic power, Chapter Tactics beneficial
Tyranids - Marginaly powerful with some builds, lack of transport, deep strike and speed hurts them, lack of decent troops hurts them, no antitank, the last of the good armies

Eldar - The best of the bottom half of the barrel, good speed, skimmer roles changed, anti tank hard to come by, troop choices all have major weaknesses
Necrons - Hurt very badly by CC rules, gauss rules changed, anti tank hard to come by, morale rules hurt them, no take ground units, mobility an issue, image problem (players don't like them)
Demon Hunters- An outdated codex that, Ironicaly can't even fight, new Demons? No antitank, decent troops, a strange outdated dex
Tau - Hurt very badly by the new CC and morale rules and vehicles in CC, no artillery, no decent CC units at all, few ground taking units, Attached drone units bleed KP
Dark Eldar - Destroyed by TLOS and no armor in CC, nearly unplayable under the current CC morale and TLOS rules.
Guard - KP nightmare, hurt by the CC rules, hurt by missions, hurt by TLOS, hurt by morale rules, no take ground units, no assault ability, the worst army in 5th

As a guard player I have to (respectfully) disagree. I'll admit annihilation missions are hard, but they're doable if you have suitable cover; IG really need LOS-blocking terrain, which is lacking these days.

Both Daemon hunters and Dark eldar are definitely worse then the guard. At the fullt-tilt tournament (60 40K players), I finished 4th with my guard. I played deathwing (4 objectives), Nurgle daemons (2 objectives) and crimson fists with Pedro (annihilation). I lost the second battle (to the guy who won the tournament), but I massacred my other two opponents. Some guard strengths: can easily hold objectives (massive amount of infantry) or contest them (tanks, anyone?); TLOS means seeing a lot of enemies, lots of pie will hurt anyone, etc...

I won't argue that guard are top of the bill, but they're lower middle rather then worst of the worst.. I might even rank necrons behind them.

I feel the main problem with 5th ed. is that people have failed to adapt, and are still trying the same old tricks as in 4th. Guard are especially vulnerable to this, since they're perceived as a static shooty army. But with armoured fist squads, drop troops, conscripts and pie-chuckers moving 6" a turn, you actually have a lot of mobility. And trying to remove a tank that moved 12" from an objective is pretty hard.If you tank shock properly (3 tanks in a row for example), you can even clear the enemy straight of the objective.

I agree with all the top armies though; at the bottom, I just don't think it's that clear cut.