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One of the guys whom I game with regularly has started running an Ironclad dreadnought spam list, which I've been having serious trouble with.

List comp is something like:

HQ:
-Master of the Forge (Bike/Conversion Beamer)

Troops:
-8 Scouts (Camo Cloaks/Sniper Rifles)
-Tac. Squad (Flamer/ML/Razorback)
-Tac. Squad (Falmer/ML/Razorback)

Fast Attack:

-10 Assault Marines

-Landspeeder (MM/HF)
-Landspeeder (MM/HF)

Elites:

-Ironclad (Hammer/HF)

Heavy Support:

-Ironclad (Hammer/HF)
-Ironclad (Hammer/HF)
-Ironclad (Hammer/SB)

Part of my problem has been dice-related and can't be helped. I usually run a KoS army, so most of my tank-busting capabilities are in Power klaws which have been failing me spectacularly lately.

My warboss, usually my go-to guy for busting armor gets the instant death hammer of doom.

Large mobs work slightly better - takes a bit longer for them to lose combat and run like little girly-grots - but man - those fearless wounds sting.

What's the best way for Orks to counter that many AV 13 walkers? Deffkoptas with TL Rokkits?

I guess I could take some zap guns or a SAG and pray...but I don't particularly like that option.

Thanks!

Honestly, your best bet is large Boyz sqauds with hidden Kalws. Sure, the Dread kills a couple of boyz a turn, but you get the 3 (4 on the charge) klaw attacks to kill the Dreads. It may take a few turns, but with only losing a couple of boyz out of a 30 man mob, per turn, you can afford the wait

Your other option is the Loota spam. Sure, you need 6s to glance, but with 45 lootas on the table, you will eventually get him

KoS might have a hard time with all the dreads, simply because you don't have the bodies to soak up their CC attacks. If you really want to stick with KoS, then the Koptas might be a good choice. If you can scout move turbo-boost around him then you can take pot-shots at rear armor.

Wow! Four ironclads. That is indeed bad news for sure. Here are some ideas off the top of my head:

A couple of trukkz with enough boyz so your nob will survive the charge and benefit from furious charge. A S9 punch can get through AV13. These units could be throw away to put some hurt on one or two ironclads. Still hard to wreck or destroy but if you can immobilize them that would be beneficial.

Deft koptaz with twin linked rokkit launchers.

How about a squad of tank bustaz in a close topped battlewagon? Not sure on this one... maybe you can test it out.

G

I'd love to play against this list with my Orks.

KoS works just fine, just make a couple of additions:

1. Add wrekkin' balls to your trukks. Stop inside 2" of the dread, and swing your wrekkin' Ball. You get a Strength 9 hit on a 4+ roll.

2. Add Boardin' Ramps to your trukks! It lets one Ork on the trukk charge down and assault a vehicle as if disembarked and charging. I presume you have a Nob with a powerklaw in every trukk - that's 4 Strength 9 attacks against a dread without having to disembark.

3. Depending on how you play with your friends, a Deff Rolla can put a hurt on a Dreadnought. You get D6 Strength 10 attacks, and if it death or glories, another D6 attacks.

Thanks for the good comments guys.

Large mobs with klaws were my first inclination - my KoS list only has one big mob(30 Shootas w/rokkits and PK), and the last game we played they charged an ironclad and spent three turns stuck in assault with it, slowly being whittled down, never managing more than a stunned result - then the game ended.
(Like I said in the original post - a good part of my problem was dice.)
At least it slowed that one down....

But lemme tell ya, the ironclad's assault launchers hurt. Orks charging in to AV 13 without their charge bonus = pain.

-Deffkoptas were the other thing I was thinking about...figured I could try outflanking and going for shots on the rear armor. I'll try and fit some in my list and see what happens.

-Tankbustas in a wagon might be worth trying, the main problem I see with them is they could be baited pretty easily with his landspeeders.

-Lootas were my previous modus operandi for walkers/light armor (although I usually only field 15), but: his sniper scouts will do their best to whittle them down until they're no longer fearless, and then pin them.

-I had never even thought of wrecking balls or boarding planks...Don't think I've ever used them period, actually. I'll give it a shot.

-Deffrollas used to be my ironclad solution. Unfortunately, I can't use them anymore as the group I play with uses the INAT FAQ for resolving rules disputes.
(Not that I don't like the INAT - I do...just not that ruling. )

I've got a game tomorrow, I'll try to fit some of the recommendations in to my list, and if he runs the ironclads again tomorrow we'll see how it works out.

Thanks again.

Keep us posted!

This is especially useful if you have a Warboss, Ghazghkull, or Mad dok - they have strength 10 attacks. You'll need 3s to hit, 3s to penetrate, and 5-7 attacks to do it with.

i see that as fething great news!
nice ammount of points tied up on 4 deads with short range weps.

rokkit kanz
deff koptas with TL rokkitz
SAG (not trustworthy)
large mobs with a klaw nob
ghaz
zagstruk
boomgun
killkannon
kannon

theres some choices for iron hunting.

Im gonna be using a list similar to this.

That MotF is very killable. Stick a str 8 shot on him & he dies but with only two wounds but a 2+ wave, possibly volume-fire might work better. He also cant join any-other unit in his own army (being on a bike) so do get rid of him.

Go after the troops. ignore those walkers as much as you can. If they come to you, then cool but otherwise annhillate the tiny amount of troops he has. They also have to be combat squaded (or have the razorbacks empty) so theres some more managed sqauds right there.

If I were him id give atleast one those ironclads a drop pod and give it dual-flamers. Horrible killing potential.

Hes got two long ranged str 8 weapons, other than that its all at 36" with those speeder-based multi-meltas.. 24" to really put some hurt, so you shooould be able to run up and enagage his squads in h2h.

Or/and ram those walkers with your trucks!

When you can't beat 'em, join 'em!

Killa Kan spam.

9 Kans with Grotzookas (super duper shooty) is 415 points (I think, definitely low 400s).

You will lose some Kans to I4 DCCW attacks, no doubt about it, but they should be able to provide the necessary edge to eliminate the Ironclad threat. The big issue is whether or not you get the charge off. If you're charging, you should definitely be able to at least immobilize the Ironclad with one unit, and probably destroy it. If you're not charging, it's a toss up.

There's a lot of valuable and competitive ideas here....

The reason I suggested what I did is because it doesn't require you to invest a bunch of money into models you potentially don't have. Just add a couple of pieces of wargear to your existing setup and voila! Anti-dread material.

With a Wrekkin' ball, you have a 50% chance of hitting any dread, and a 50% of penetrating it...and then with your Ork charging down the boarding ramp, you'll get 4 more Strength 9 attacks. Honestly, the Wrekkin' ball might be a waste - it costs 10 points for 1 attack.

However the boarding planks are 5 points, and you get 4 attacks from a Nob inside! Definitely a useful expenditure.

The thing about the ironclad is not only its AV13 & I4 ws 4 goodness but that its also got Extra-armor as standard which makes rolls on the damage table (along with a "spare" DCCW) alot more ignorable.

If you are in charge range (with kanz) then the previous turn it will have taken a pop at you with a melta-gun meaning possibly (hiting on 3's, glancing on 3's, needing 3's to do anything useful..so slight) one less kan to deal with.. 9 attacks, 4.5 hit, 3 glance or better. Out of that you need to roll 4's (or 5 for the pens) to do anything useful. This is after the I4 dred has had its 3 attacks at you. Sadly the awesome grotzooks can only do anything to the rear armor of the ironclad.

Tank busters. A couple (possibly with a nob wielding a tank-hammer for I4 charges) having anti-tank bombz and two tank-hammer between them, a good handful of rokkit launcher hits moving in. Fairly cheap. Seems quite effective.

not really dash.
boarding plank assults go in Init. order as all other assults, meaning the nob gets pasted before he can attack.

Tank bustas. A buddy of mines tried a list like that and told me to find a way to stop it. Add bomb squigs for even more good times.

JD, according to the letter of the law, a boarding plank assaulting nob doesn't get whacked by the dreadnought he's assaulting.

For descriptive means, you have a trukk flying by a dreadnought and an Ork nob hanging out the side with his tongue lolling out while he screams at the top of his lungs and takes a few swings at the dread on his way by.

going by RAW is states otherwise.

exactly as if the ork were disembarked and charging

so it would be an assult, not a free attack.
im guessing they never thought about walkers fighting back.
there is a thread going now about this.

Dashofpepper wrote:JD, according to the letter of the law, a boarding plank assaulting nob doesn't get whacked by the dreadnought he's assaulting.

For descriptive means, you have a trukk flying by a dreadnought and an Ork nob hanging out the side with his tongue lolling out while he screams at the top of his lungs and takes a few swings at the dread on his way by.

Slightly reguardless either way - An assaulting nob fights at I4 so.. Ahhhh a power claw. All the more reason for tank-hammers!

Neways I think the words you need to read dash are "..exactly as if the Ork were disembarking and charging..."

If an ork charges a walker (a vehicle) then the walker gets to smack it back. Granted the vehicle may then be able to move off again so being able to contrivene the rules of being locked in combat.. but surely thats the good point about a boarding plank!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/230055.page

just for the randomness of it all ^


boarding planks were designed for drive by attacks on vehicles
yet walkers are a grey area, and im sure there will be some arguments to come with this plank


but for dreads, tankbustas do well, either shoot it, throw bomb squigs at it, or smash it a few times with a tank hammer

I agree with the Tank Bustas. They were made for this sort of situation.

tankbustas in a trukk however, thats nice
drive by tank hammering

Fore!

4 would make it a pen. hit
need to make a tankbusta in a golf outfit

Model the trukk as a golf cart?

Nurglitch wrote:Model the trukk as a golf cart?

Man, now I'll have to practice painting plaid....

Dashofpepper wrote:Keep us posted!

This is especially useful if you have a Warboss, Ghazghkull, or Mad dok - they have strength 10 attacks. You'll need 3s to hit, 3s to penetrate, and 5-7 attacks to do it with.

The warboss can be targeted by the ironclad in close combat... DCCW equates to an easy insta-kill. This is the last place you want your warboss on the receiving end.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:
The warboss can be targeted by the ironclad in close combat... DCCW equates to an easy insta-kill. This is the last place you want your warboss on the receiving end.

G

Actually, Yakface ruled that the Dread can't make attacks when victimized by the drive by klawin'.

Reference the thread JD linked to above or this previous one :

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/219426.page#395938

Good to know....

JD21290 wrote:4 would make it a pen. hit
need to make a tankbusta in a golf outfit

I'm so doing this when I finally get to my tank bustas. I'll have him with a club in mid-swing, and instead of a ball on the T, it'll be tank-busta bomb.

DebonaireToast wrote:Lootas were my previous modus operandi for walkers/light armor (although I usually only field 15), but: his sniper scouts will do their best to whittle them down until they're no longer fearless, and then pin them.

I'm surprised sniper scouts would scare your lootas. If you gave your lootas(x15) one turn to shoot at the scouts, it would give you 5 - 15 shots that wound on 2 and don't allow armor... even if they're in cover that's scary.

DebonaireToast wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:
The warboss can be targeted by the ironclad in close combat... DCCW equates to an easy insta-kill. This is the last place you want your warboss on the receiving end.

G

Actually, Yakface ruled that the Dread can't make attacks when victimized by the drive by klawin'.

Reference the thread JD linked to above or this previous one :

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/219426.page#395938

Good to know....

But the INAT FAQ is essentially just so everyone is playing with the same ruleset at Adepticon and other tourneys that choose to use it. That FAQ ruling is a house rule essentially, and I think there's a good argument that it is not the correct RAW ruling. So unless you and your opponent are choosing to play by that specific set of house rules, it's a poor basis for an argument of RAW.

Razerous wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:JD, according to the letter of the law, a boarding plank assaulting nob doesn't get whacked by the dreadnought he's assaulting.

For descriptive means, you have a trukk flying by a dreadnought and an Ork nob hanging out the side with his tongue lolling out while he screams at the top of his lungs and takes a few swings at the dread on his way by.

Slightly reguardless either way - An assaulting nob fights at I4 so.. Ahhhh a power claw. All the more reason for tank-hammers!

Neways I think the words you need to read dash are "..exactly as if the Ork were disembarking and charging..."

If an ork charges a walker (a vehicle) then the walker gets to smack it back. Granted the vehicle may then be able to move off again so being able to contrivene the rules of being locked in combat.. but surely thats the good point about a boarding plank!

Razerous, don't read things into the rules that aren't there...that's dangerous. Someone linked a thread earlier where this has been debated and ruled on, and the end result is that boarding planking a dread does NOT let the dread attack your Nob swinging across the boarding plank.

The Boarding plank lets you take your attacks exactly as if the Ork were disembarked and charging. IE, +1 attack, +1 strength. It doesn't say that it starts an assault, or close combat turn, which is what would give a dread the opportunity to attack back. It specifically says that the Ork alone may take its attacks, and the rules governing it taking its attacks are to be determined as if it were charging the enemy.

So yeah - Powerklaws on trukks with a Boarding plank are a great mobile anti-tank weapon, and they work against dreadnoughts too.

*EDIT* And Debonaire, although the Adepticon bit *is* house rules for certain things...RAW is good enough here. In order for a dread to get attacks against a Nob coming down a boarding camp (or a defiler, etc) you have to take the RAW, and the specific Codex rules, and expand and interpret them.

Then, you have to wildly maul the assault rules, stretch and change them to fit this scenario (its not a charge, nor an assault) and in doing so break the rules on wound allocation and resolving combat.

After all that is done, there's a very, VERY long stretch of a warped imagination that says that a dread gets to attack an ork who comes down a boarding ramp at it. However, if we backtrack and just use the words on the paper, we end up realizing that codexes have special rules that trump the BGB. Every codex has some. This one is no different, and it outlines specifically what to do.

DebonaireToast wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:
The warboss can be targeted by the ironclad in close combat... DCCW equates to an easy insta-kill. This is the last place you want your warboss on the receiving end.

G

Actually, Yakface ruled that the Dread can't make attacks when victimized by the drive by klawin'.

Reference the thread JD linked to above or this previous one :

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/219426.page#395938



Good to know....

I believe that only applies when using the INAT FAQ and is not universally accepted.

G

The OP mentioned that his group uses the INAT FAQ, so your comment is moot GBF.