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How hardcore a follower of the WYSIWYG rule are you?

I see the rule as working two fold;

1) You have to have a piece or wargear or weapon to use it on the model
2) Everything on the model must be paid for and taken.

eg, No Lasguns as Plasma guns for rule 1

and If a model has a flamer you would have to have taken and paid for a flamer in order to use that model with regards to rule 2

Personally I follow it pretty much only one way. That is rule 1, I will never substitute models in my army with a lower weapon for a more powerful one (one could call this trading-up) that is to say I never let regular guardsmen with lasguns represent plasma gunners. But I do often use flamers as guardsmen with lasguns and other such cases where I have a model who has been modelled with say a vox but I will not use him with a vox.

Also I have LRBT with sponsons on but often only take them with the Turrent and a HB, I also will often represent the hull Lascannon as a HB on a Russ

For my gaming 'career' I have never had a problem with anyone in terms of this, this includes tournys at the local GW store.

On an aside;
With regards to the new 5e Codex for Imperial Guard I hear much complaining as to the fact that people cannot use their seperate HW teams (not a unified base) or sergeants with lasguns. I for one play Mordian, and all my HWs are seperate and I will not change this period.

I run my PAGKs with incinerators as though they were psycannons all the time. Not my fault GW likes to be really stingy with they're weapons.

Which is funny. You'd think that the GK's signature gun would come with their sets, but no, you have to buy them seperatly.

I'm not sure why people consider rule #1 to be more important than rule #2. I mean yeah, it's not good to find out that the squad you just deepstriked next to is supposed to have 4 flamers, but it's not good to find out you could have deepstriked next to squad that only had flamers on the models either.

Both have potential for confusion. I consider them about equal. Perhaps rule #1 is a little more important because if it's followed there's no confusion as to what the proxy is supposed to be (it's nothing).

Regardless, your heavy weapons teams are the GW model, I wouldn't change them either.

The rule is "What you see is what you get". I expect people to play by the rules. Of course there are some instances where it's either not possible or an incredible inconvenience in which case I don't mind. As for the IG HW teams... I'm on the same page as Orkeosaurus (RAWR)... they are from the WH40K line and thus it is acceptable, IMO.

I run Mordian too. Just posted how I converted my HW teams without taking my guys off their current bases over on my blog.

http://mordian95thrifles.blogspot.com/2009/04/re-basing-metal-heavy-weapon-crews.html

If my guys were already painted I probably would not have even bothered with rebasing these guys.

As for the WYSIWYG...I run with 2ed Stormtroopers, yah know the ones without carapace armor. They won't be mistaken for anything else.

I'm also the guy that converted some Epic Eldar Knights and ghost warriors into Wraithguard.

I think the biggest thing with WYSIWYG is as long as your opponent can tell what something is supposed to be without being confused you will be ok.

What about the case where I run my LRBT with sponsons, as those without, or the Lascannon as a HB

I mean I only have so many tanks and how can one be expected to have tanks with/without sponsons or with a HB or a Lascannon for every occasion?

how does the general community feel about this

You've not talked to HBMC much, have you

I've heard of his massive tank collection, I myself have 14 leman Russes, 2 basilisk 3 chimeras and a baneblade

hardly noteworthy

ChaseMacKenzie wrote:I've heard of his massive tank collection, I myself have 14 leman Russes, 2 basilisk 3 chimeras and a baneblade

hardly noteworthy

Dude...you can field the 3 squads of 3 LRBT...that is note worthy.

I try to follow rule 1 as posted, but not rule 2. And in my group I'm the stickler. For example, I have a nice assault marine sergeant with a meltabomb in his hand. Most games he doesn't actually have the meltabomb. I modeled it for those occasions when he does.

What's your view on wargear that is included in the base unit entry? Do you expect players to model krak and frag grenades, for example?

WYSWYG I use with pretty much everything. If there's a weapon, or a specific combo, or something like that, and I don't own a model to represent it I'll either go out and buy/make that model, or I just won't take it. This is why I have things like a Marine Captain w/Power Weapon, Power Fist, Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield and Lightning Claws, and then the same thing with Librarians, and then again with Chaplains. It's also the reason why I have 15 standard Russes (let alone the various variants), so that I can have 3 with Hull HBs, 3 with Hull LCs, three with 3 HBs, and 6 with LCs/2HBs.

All my squads are usually modular, like my Chaos Marine Squads. They're 10-men each, but there are actually 15 models for each squad - Champ w/Fist, Champ w/Power Weapon, 2 Meltas, 2 Flamers, 9 BP/CCW. It allows me to swap in and out what I need, and not be stuck using special weapons when I don't want to bring them (hence the reason I have 9 BP/CCWs per squad rather than 7).

Things that change between games, like vehicle upgrades (specifically Smoke, EA, Rough Terrain Mods and the like) are not modelled. I don't bring them all the time, I don't always bring them on specific vehicles, so they don't need to be there. My extra armour is internal, my rough terrain mods are enhanced suspension systems that you cannot see from the outside. I don't take things like HK missiles, but I won't mount a pintle weapon unless I have the model for it.

Plasmagunners are always Plasmagunners. Flamer guys are always Flamer guys. Lascannons are always Lascannons. Autocannons are always Autocannons. Given the size of my group's armies and the games we play, these sorts of things are very important.

It depends. My primary army is an ork army so some of my models could pass as a few different things. I always explain to my opponent what everything is before I start the game.

Examples: I've got a big mek with a servo arm with burnas attached. Sometimes it's a PK and sometimes it's a burna. Some of the arms from the new nob boxed set could easily pass as either cybork bodies or power klaws. Sometimes I run my lootaz as big shootaz or rokkit launchaz in my boy mobs.

Arschbombe wrote:What's your view on wargear that is included in the base unit entry? Do you expect players to model krak and frag grenades, for example?

I've never heard of someone paying attention to whether or not grenades are modelled, personally.

I like to see and follow the intent of WYSIWYG:
- right models (e.g. SM model for SM)
- weapons match (e.g. Plasma Gun is Plasma Gun)
- key gear modeled (e.g. Assault Marines have JPs)

I don't like:
- proxies (e.g Skeleton for SM)
- random weapon swaps (e.g this ML is Lascanon & that ML is HB)

I'm OK with Counts As:
- consistent rule for counts as (e.g. *all* ML are Lascannon or *all* Heavies are Lascannon)

Rangerrob wrote:I run Mordian too. Just posted how I converted my HW teams without taking my guys off their current bases over on my blog.

*Not* going to do it for my Tallarns!

Rangerrob wrote:I run Mordian too. Just posted how I converted my HW teams without taking my guys off their current bases over on my blog.

http://mordian95thrifles.blogspot.com/2009/04/re-basing-metal-heavy-weapon-crews.html

It's a nice idea, but with 4 45-man platoons of old Guard metals (2 Cadian, 1 Tallarn, 1 Mordian) plus an additional 40 metal HW teams on top of that, I would never even attempt it. I actually like the old Guard heavy weapons, especially the 'Field Gun' style of the Lascannon.

I also enjoy the Pak 40 http://www.armor.se/images/Panzer/Pak40.jpg

Look of the old IG HWs, hence I swap them out for the weapons for all my Cadians and Mordians,

all in all I will not be WYSIWYG the 60mm base for HWs on the count of this codex.

i hold myself to strict wysiwig standards. i moved and most of the opponents by me now are 40k noobs (working on their 1st army). i don't hold them to that standard but i ask that they either have the exact army written down OR modelled as they frequently make mistakes. i don't mind limited substitutions but i get annoyed if i'm facing ork wraithguard or M&M guardsmen (unless i get to eat them when i kill them! yum!).

As a Tyranid player, WYSIWYG is pretty annoying. Boxes don't provide enough pieces to outfit units the same, especially in the cases of head for Genestealers and Toxin Sacs for ANYTHING. Not to mention the little plates that are the "extended carapace."

I try to keep it as close as possible. Weapons will be what they appear, but all things like flesh hooks and toxin sacs may not be evident on the model.

Other than that I agree with JohnHwang.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
I'm OK with Counts As:
- consistent rule for counts as (e.g. *all* ML are Lascannon or *all* Heavies are Lascannon)

This important. I don't care what weapons you proxy, but if you do, every single weapon of that kind had better count as that.

warboss wrote:... or M&M guardsmen (unless i get to eat them when i kill them! yum!).

That's a really good idea... 'cept I'd do it with shot glasses. They're about the right size to be infantry as well.

Mattlov wrote:As a Tyranid player, WYSIWYG is pretty annoying

The small event we're running at the start of May is geared around using armies you've never used before, and a friend of mine will be using my Tyranid army as he's never played with them and only played against them once. He makes a list and then I have to tell him that I don't have that combo of weapons, and it's kind've sad. You're right about the kits just not having enough.

But you model toxin sacs? I regard them in the same light as Frag Grenades. Have never bothered to stick those little things on.

The one thing I hate is swapping out models in the middle of the game. I don't mind if you're replacing a non-WYSISYG model with what it actually is but replacing a model with a completely different one gets annoying.

Once I charged a unit of DE Spearmen and my opponent conveniently "forgot" to place an Assassin during his deployment and drops the Assassin in the Spears at the start of my combat phase. He didn't even apologize he just says, "There's an Assassin in that unit" and places him in the front rank like nothing's wrong. Needless to say I picked up my army and left.

I'm more stingy with myself than with others. I mean, I'm even modeling the Hard-Wired Wargear onto my Tau! The one thing I can think of off that that's not WYSIWYG are a couple of my Necron Lords. Two of them have claws "counts-as Warscythes", and the other has a Phylactery though I never pay for one. The claws are just cooler, and the Destroyer Lords come with two arms, one has a Res Orb I don't need and the other a Phylactery, but no one ever knows it's there unless I point it out to them.

As for others, I don't mind so much so long as they make sure they point the stuff out to me before the game, which most everyone does.

ummm...isn't that how Assassins work?
Been a while since I read a Dark Elf book...but I though the Assassins popped up in units and were not placed at the start of the game.

avantgarde wrote:The one thing I hate is swapping out models in the middle of the game. I don't mind if you're replacing a non-WYSISYG model with what it actually is but replacing a model with a completely different one gets annoying.

Once I charged a unit of DE Spearmen and my opponent conveniently "forgot" to place an Assassin during his deployment and drops the Assassin in the Spears at the start of my combat phase. He didn't even apologize he just says, "There's an Assassin in that unit" and places him in the front rank like nothing's wrong. Needless to say I picked up my army and left.

Rangerrob wrote:ummm...isn't that how Assassins work?
Been a while since I read a Dark Elf book...but I though the Assassins popped up in units and were not placed at the start of the game.

Yeah, that is in fact how Assassins work (or at least used to).

Thus, LOL @ that situation.

Mattlov wrote:As a Tyranid player, WYSIWYG is pretty annoying. Boxes don't provide enough pieces to outfit units the same, especially in the cases of head for Genestealers and Toxin Sacs for ANYTHING. Not to mention the little plates that are the "extended carapace.".

One simple and cheap way to sort this out is to have a 'champion' in each unit kitted out absolutely WYSIWYG.
Very simple for both your opponent and you to work out.
It's not ideal but fairly bombproof.

I'm prety bad for wysiwyg, however I've been consistently improving this. My main offenses are officer's wargear and sponsons on my Russ's. I ocaisionaly sub heavy weapons teams as well.

Also my conscripts are just whatever guardmodel I have, so in the blob of 50 there might be flamer that's a regular conscript, or some heavy weapons loaders.

ChaseMacKenzie wrote:How hardcore a follower of the WYSIWYG rule are you?

I see the rule as working two fold;

1) You have to have a piece or wargear or weapon to use it on the model
2) Everything on the model must be paid for and taken.

eg, No Lasguns as Plasma guns for rule 1

and If a model has a flamer you would have to have taken and paid for a flamer in order to use that model with regards to rule 2

Personally I follow it pretty much only one way. That is rule 1, I will never substitute models in my army with a lower weapon for a more powerful one (one could call this trading-up) that is to say I never let regular guardsmen with lasguns represent plasma gunners. But I do often use flamers as guardsmen with lasguns and other such cases where I have a model who has been modelled with say a vox but I will not use him with a vox.

Also I have LRBT with sponsons on but often only take them with the Turrent and a HB, I also will often represent the hull Lascannon as a HB on a Russ

For my gaming 'career' I have never had a problem with anyone in terms of this, this includes tournys at the local GW store.

On an aside;
With regards to the new 5e Codex for Imperial Guard I hear much complaining as to the fact that people cannot use their seperate HW teams (not a unified base) or sergeants with lasguns. I for one play Mordian, and all my HWs are seperate and I will not change this period.

WYSIWYG always goes both ways. Ammo Runts (and the like) are on different bases, do not count toward anything, don't hold up any form of occupancy in vehicles, and can be randomly moved if they get in the way... The same should apply toward Wargear. Make a "converted" base that simply sits next to the model, like a half moon or etc. that has that piece of wargear on it. There... He has it... If it's trouble, then move it for all other purposes.

-J.

P.s. Yes... I hate playing people that don't play the visual way. Yes, you showed me a roster. I shouldn't have to look at a piece of paper to know what your men are generally equipped w/. (Granted some items are vague in appearence.)

I'm like HBMC. I have most of the options covered for my armies with respective models.

I have a plasma gun, melta gun and flamer for each of my marine squads (and sgts with bolters or bp/cc/pw). At least 3-4 of EACH heavy weapon option. I have multiple captain/librarian/chaplain models with various gear. This is why I have OVER a company strength of marines.

My eldar are similar (less tanks).

If I don't have it, I either convert it, buy it or go without it. I also don't field unpainted models (but this is a holdover from playing napoleonics).

chromedog wrote:I'm like HBMC. I have most of the options covered for my armies with respective models.

I have a plasma gun, melta gun and flamer for each of my marine squads (and sgts with bolters or bp/cc/pw). At least 3-4 of EACH heavy weapon option. I have multiple captain/librarian/chaplain models with various gear. This is why I have OVER a company strength of marines.

My eldar are similar (less tanks).

If I don't have it, I either convert it, buy it or go without it. I also don't field unpainted models (but this is a holdover from playing napoleonics).

You sir are an opponent I think I would like to face.

-J.