Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just saw Transformers 2.

My childhood just died....in a massive explosion....with dogs humping.

F@ck this movie. What a waste, I should've known better. At least I didnt support it with actual money.

My childhood is firmly intact. I thought it was a wonderful film, and certainly a great adaptation of a kid's show and toy range to a flashy action movie.

Would you like some cheese with your whine?

Cheese Elemental wrote:My childhood is firmly intact. I thought it was a wonderful film, and certainly a great adaptation of a kid's show and toy range to a flashy action movie.

How old are you?

This movie was NOT "Transformers"...it has some similarities with the cartoon, but as a hardcore childhood fan, I tolerated the last film, but actively dislike this one.

It was crap, and it DOES NOT by any means represent Transformers.

Transformers is not toilet humour
Transformers is not racial stereotyping
Transformers is NOT robot Genitalia
Transformers was story driven, not explosion driven

I hate this movie.

My age does not change my views. The old transformers videos were all I had to watch as a kid because we lived in the middle of nowhere.

Clearly, you had your fingers in your ears the whole movie if you couldn't hear the story.

Someone told me something about there being a couple of robots who couldn't read ( WTF ? ) and had "pimp teeth" ( again WTF is that ?), is this right ?

My age does not change my views.

, it colours them.

And it will do.

No, I liked it.

The story was nonsensical, The script rather poor, the visuals and sound design second to none.
Ergo, seasons 1-4 of the Generation One cartoon!

You can't claim that somehow ROTF ruined Transformers for it's multi-tiered storytelling, silky character development and it's humanist underpinnings can you?

Neither the cartoon or this movie had that. I think it did justice to the brand. Sure, there were a ton of things I disliked about this movie, mainly the shoehorned comedy, but there were some incredible action set-pieces and the level of violence was quite frankly disturbing.

Transformers is not toilet humour
Transformers is not racial stereotyping
Transformers is NOT robot Genitalia
Transformers was story driven, not explosion driven

Come on; story driven? The story in the cartoon involved numerous ways to introduce the rapidly-expanding toyline Hasbro was churning out, and the writing was sub-par, even for the 80s. The Space Bridge? Robot Leg Crocodiles? Soundwave being sat behind a monitor for three million years waiting for Megatron? Come on...

And as for racial stereotyping, the black dude was called Jazz...
Come on...

I still have all of my G1 transformers and they will always have a special place in my heart but the old cartoon can't compete with a huge hollywood blockbuster.

I'm watching it next week and go knowingthat it is a Michael bay action film, not a Stanly Kubrik art house film.

Nope, sorry...movie was crap.

If you simply buy into Bay's sales technique, thats fine, but dont call it good movie making.

Bay doesnt have vision, he has a formula. That formula is a guaranteed successful film as far as hollywood goes. Adrenaline, potty humour, explosions, and hot chicks. Thats not good moviemaking, its salesmanship.

This sort of moviemaking doesnt satisfy an old Transformers fan when they're applied to an old favorite.

...and those stories WERE story driven...to a 13 year old.

I'm not disputing Michael Bay's lack of moviemaking vision, or his formula.

I'm saying the movie was good. And you're wrong, This movie does satisfy and old Transformers fan; Me.
And Waaagh_Gonads too, by the look of it.

So now your analogy of story-driven cartoons VS Michael Bay movies breaks down now you're footnoting your argument with "...to a 13 year old", aren't they?

A 13 year old kid would love this movie, go figure.
Toys are for kids. Transformers are for kids. Kids love it.

There you go.

Tek wrote:

A 13 year old kid would love this movie, go figure.

Probably true...but not because of the Transformers. A 13 year old will love this movie because of explosions and Megan Fox running in slow motion. If you dispute that, you're delusional.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a question.

What the hell is up with modernising these classic and already proven ideas?

All Transformer or GI Joe fans wanted to see was their comic books/cartoons in live action on the screen. No mishmashes of steel fighting, no "enhancement" suits, just classic Optimus and Classic Megatron going at it.

I suspect if you had another directer make a Transformers movie right now he would totally steal Bay's thunder if he did the following:

1. Keep the original models for the Robots, no "hard to look at" bodies with real time fights that are impossible to follow. Just Optimus as seen in the Comics...but in Live action.

2. Screw modernising, in fact, make it a period movie with stuff from the 80's! Outfits, hairstyles, and yes, vehicles from the 80's. Retro is cool nowadays.

3. Keep it for the kids. No "testicles" on Devestator. No unreasonable cursing (punk a$$ decepticon, Pu##y, ect), no dogs humping. Know what I mean? Keep it a wholesome like the cartoon but maybe step it up for live action "violence" at a PG level.

...basically, the only thing to change would be the fact that its live action now?...hell, I'd even say screw it and have Megatron still turn into a gun. I mean, they still wanna sell toys right?

I think my version of Transformers would gross more money than Bay's if I could put the same amount of money into it. I mean, before the movie came out, who was saying "Man, I hope they change the design of the Robots and have plenty of slow motion boobs bouncing"?

No, we all just wanted to see Optimus fighting once again. None of us wanted any change, except to live action.

Ugh, the twin (Read: bad ghetto stereo type robots) Were sicking to me. Why whoud a robody say things like "I ain't much on readin" "Im Mo Git all up in dat ass" nd sport a gold tooth. you can have black voiced robots, like Jazz, without taking the low road. Add in sexism enough to make the girls behind me curse. Dont take my word for it, just out some reviews. I'm not a hater I realy liked part one and i had high hopes for part 2. I'm not whining i'm just dissapointed. It's got big explosions and good fights but what summer movie doesn't. If you like it good, some of us didn't.

Deadshane1 wrote:I suspect if you had another directer make a Transformers movie right now he would totally steal Bay's thunder if he did the following:

1. Keep the original models for the Robots, no "hard to look at" bodies with real time fights that are impossible to follow. Just Optimus as seen in the Comics...but in Live action.
2. Screw modernising, in fact, make it a period movie with stuff from the 80's! Outfits, hairstyles, and yes, vehicles from the 80's. Retro is cool nowadays.
3. Keep it for the kids. No "testicles" on Devestator. No unreasonable cursing (punk a$$ decepticon, Pu##y, ect), no dogs humping. Know what I mean? Keep it a wholesome like the cartoon but maybe step it up for live action "violence" at a PG level.

...basically, the only thing to change would be the fact that its live action now?...hell, I'd even say screw it and have Megatron still turn into a gun. I mean, they still wanna sell toys right?

I think my version of Transformers would gross more money than Bay's if I could put the same amount of money into it.

I think your version sounds pretty crap.

You might just have wanted to don the rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia, but when I go to see a film about giant robots fighting, I expect it to look good, I expect it to be violent, and I sure as hell don't expect it to be wholesome and PG-rated. Face it Deadshane; this movie was likely made for the likes of me, not the likes of you.

Though I should probably mention I haven't seen this film yet.

I won't say I've loved all his movies but I find them all at least watchable, even Pearl Too Long Stupid Love Story Harbor.

And the crapifying of movies isn't always the director's fault. In big budget things especially, it's usually a bunch of guys in suits sitting around a conference room sipping lattes that decide how stupid they want the movies they fund to be.

IT'S JUST A MOVIE!!!

It rocks big nads.

And there is already a thread for about the film, but without the whinging over nothing.

And since you mentioned you didn't pay to see the film, one would draw a reasonable deduction that you watched a Pirated version? And you're commenting on the quality of the action? How exactly? I saw it in the Cinema, one notorious for completely ropey projectors and I followed every blow perfectly, which was a first in that over priced dump of a fleapit.

I dispute that this film is aimed at 13 year olds. It's aimed at adults now in their 20's and 30' who watched Transformers as kids. Its essentially a movie deigned to turn 30 year old men into 13 years old for 2 hours! The lovley Miss Fox certainly doesnt hurt.

I agree with the above posters that the 80's series and 86 movie didnt have a plot that made sense on any kind of critical level. It's whole premise was daft and it was driven by cool charaters and ace fight scenes.

Lets not forget that the whole premise of the series was alien robots who transfored into machines to blend in, Yet some of the most popular characters trasformed into mechanical aproximations of longs extinct reptiles! Rule of cool was how Transformers worked!

Basically the movie is a modern version of the cartoon. An excuse for Robots to beat the hell out of each other whilst we all smile and theres nothing wrong with that at all!

As for Michael Bay he really doesnt deserve the stick he gets. He's done far more good films than bad. Yeah Pearl Harbor sucked but Bad Boys 1 & 2, The Rock and, of course the Transformers films are great. Even Armageddon, as dumb as it was, is still huge amounts of fun.

He's not Scorsese, but he's not trying to be either.

As much as I dislike Michael Bay, comparing him to Uwe Boll is way, way wrong.

I haven't seen Transformers 2 yet, but I know that afterwards I'm probably going to yawn.

LuciusAR wrote: Yeah Pearl Harbor sucked but Bad Boys 1 & 2, The Rock and, of course the Transformers films are great. Even Armageddon, as dumb as it was, is still huge amounts of fun.

You were doing so well..... up until this point.

Only film worth a darn out of that list was Transformers.


GG

Thing to remember is the brand has to compete on two levels; keep the old fans happy, and introduce new fans.

We see it every four years with a new BGB. The thirty-somethings who say "2nd Edition was better" and the like.

You can't please everyone, all the time. We're gonna have to agree to disagree, but I loved this movie. I'm going to see it again tonight in fact.

Although, deadshane; personally I think I could have done a better job, and I was disappointed that my 'predictions' [read: hopes] for ROTF were better than the movie itself, but hey, that's fanboydom for you.

I liken this movie to the old cartoon way more than the first movie. It had a really quirky, retro feel to the story and the characters. Yeah, I hated the twins too, but a few guys here at work loved them. Go figure.

Had Stan Bush's "The Touch" remake been in there if would be instant win on toast.

The 80's transformers cartoon had plot.

The 09 transformers has Megan Fox. I can forgive its other failings.

I'm generally in agreemant with Deadshane1 and sexiest hero here.

It was originally a kids show, but this is just juvenile. Showing the dogs humping repeatedly made no sense and added nothing to the movie, the twin autobots are insulting and probably going to cause some issues, the fart and testicle jokes are not needed. If they had excised the stuff not only would the movie have been shorter (it is way to long for what it is) and better.

OTOH the scenes with NEST and machines fighting tended to be fairly engaging.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:I still have all of my G1 transformers and they will always have a special place in my heart but the old cartoon can't compete with a huge hollywood blockbuster.

I'm watching it next week and go knowingthat it is a Michael bay action film, not a Stanly Kubrik art house film.

That's a false dichotomy. A film isn't either arthouse and deserving a standard, or a blockbuster action film and unable to be criticised. There are different standards for each, but they can both be assessed. A blockbuster should have simple but well drawn, accessible characters, a plot that gives context to the action without getting in the way, kickass action and a few good laughs.

I saw Transformers II tonight, and looked forward to it, because the first film was really good fun. Transformers II was an awful movie. It was an awful movie because it gave us characters that were entirely dull or kind of offensive. The plot dragged and added inane detail without actually improving the action. The jokes were incredibly puerile. The action was spectacular if you could figure out what was going on, which was possible about half the time.

Worse than all that, it was obvious no-one working on this movie cared at all about what they were producing. At one point, after Devestator has formed they cut to single Constructicons, then back to Devestator. It was an obvious, dreadful continuity error that is only allowed out the door when no-one involved cares at all about what they're making. And you know why no-one cared about it? Because they knew they were shovelling crap out the door, aiming for an audience happy to accept robot gonad jokes and racial stereotypes.

Maybe they're right, maybe that is 'good enough' film making. I don't know, I can't figure how anyone over the age of seven could find Transformers II remotely enjoyable.



On the subject of the 80s cartoon, yeah it was pretty goofy. The plots made no sense. But there was a genuine affection for the primary characters and the premise that gave the show lasting value. The affection lasted long enough that when the movie came out and suddenly they were killing old characters it was pretty damn confronting for a little kid. But in this new movie there's all the old faults but no love for the characters. The result is a movie with nothing but spectacle, and it's spectacle that's really hard to follow.

I've always thought that Bay was a very shallow director. I've never once walked out of one of his movies and thought "Great story, pacing was a bit slow, but the dialog was killer!" With that said, the special effects in his movies are always top-notch and looks and sounds great on a gigantic screen with speakers strong enough to blow the clothes off a nun. I don't walk into the movie with expectations so I can't leave disappointed.

I decided to avoid this movie the moment I found out the theme song was a rehash of the original in a different key. That kind of laziness will make anything bad.

Dark Knight's theme music was a rehash of Batman Begins.

Just putting that out there.

Eliminating all humans and just having killer robots obliterate each other would be fine. After all the original series was about the robot action not the people action.

Was I the only one who hoped Spike would have a horrifying, multi episode death? He was so annoying you just wanted to scream DIE! DIE! DIE! over and over. But, like untreated jock itch, he never did.

Hollywood Blockbuster Busts Blocks SHOCK!

Dogma, seriously. Go and see it. It delivers everything you expect it to.

The film only ever promised 40 foot tall Robots which can transform into other things knocking seven bells out of each other. And it delivers that. With aplomb.

Seriously guys, it's like having a go at a Dyslexic kid for not being able to write as fast as a Shorthand Secretary. Yes, you will have to lower your standards, but not that far.

Tek wrote:Ergo, seasons 1-4 of the Generation One cartoon!

Not to mention the seasons American didn't get.

Tek wrote:The Space Bridge? Robot Leg Crocodiles? Soundwave being sat behind a monitor for three million years waiting for Megatron? Come on...

Don't forget the Beastformers/Battle Beasts. I freakin' love them!

I miss the 80's...

I totally disgree with the op. It was an amazing movie. Second only to Monty python and the holy grail.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Dogma, seriously. Go and see it. It delivers everything you expect it to.

If your expectations are to see Amos 'n Andy in robot form, with all the implications that go with that, than yes, it does deliver everything you expect it to.

Frazzled wrote:Dark Knight's theme music was a rehash of Batman Begins.

Just putting that out there.

The difference is that Batman Begins/Dark Knight used more than 1 piece of music for its various action scenes. Michael Bay usually only changes music between movies. For this one he didn't even do that. Though I suppose I should be grateful that he didn't cop the Carthage music from Gladiator like everyone else does.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Hollywood Blockbuster Busts Blocks SHOCK!

Dogma, seriously. Go and see it. It delivers everything you expect it to.

I'm sure I'll see it eventually. I just won't be paying to do so.