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Ahtman wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Dogma, seriously. Go and see it. It delivers everything you expect it to.

If your expectations are to see Amos 'n Andy in robot form, with all the implications that go with that, than yes, it does deliver everything you expect it to.

No, I paid to see 40' tall Robots what can turn into stuff knocking seven bells out of each other, baysplosions, MEgan Fox looking hot, and a bit of decent brain bubblegum, and thats exactly what I got.

Are there bits that could have been done without? Sure. The Twins are somewhat irritating, but ignorable enough, and the bit where Sam's mum is on campus was largely unnecessary, but this IS a BLockbuster. It needs to have a broad appeal. The important thing here to me is that the bits I didn't really care for didn't overshadow what I paid for.

I just feel people are holding it up to essentially unfair levels of scrutiny and judgement. It's not made for the fans. It's made to make money. The important bits for fans. Peter Cullen plays Prime. This is good. Starscream is a whinging little wuss with delusions of grandeur, and Megatron is as maniacal as ever.

I think my only real complaint was it seemed a little rushed at the end. Its like Bay got eveything to that point and realised he had 5mins left to finish the movie.

Other than that it for me, my brother and his girlfried it was a fantastic watch. (Myself and my brother being huge G1 fans, and both being old enough to have seen it all first time around and get the comics.)

I personaly found the twins quite amusing, so what if they are over landish sterotypes, I've seen just as bad stuff being parodied in hip hop videos, and as the autobots had already referenced they devolped personality with Human languages with their experiences on the web, it kinda made sense.
The comparrison with Jar Jar is a little unfair, because most people are not in fact complaining over him because of the connection to the style of speech he has, but the whole obsurdity of his apparent luck and the importance that plays in key fights.
So Jar Jar still sucks the worst.



I'll certainly buy it on DVD, and I'm taking my wife to go see it next week (no babysitter this week) so will happily watch it again. I'm just happy if it does well enough for a third film, can't get enough of the series tbh.

edit - whoops my bad, was a bit out of it, suffering wih Heatstroke most of this week, oh and dude, just like pretty Dark Elf girls is all.

Spoiler tags dude (or dudette I suppose!) SPOILER TAGS!

Micheal Bay is making America stupider. I would see Transformers II only if he paid me to watch it and only if I was so stoned that I wouldn't remember it afterward.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:I just feel people are holding it up to essentially unfair levels of scrutiny and judgement.

I gave my criteria for a blockbuster above. A script that quickly gives context to the action then gets out the way (the script here failed on both counts, it was long and contrived in its set ups). Likeable, broadly drawn characters (I can't even remember character names they were all so bland). Good humour (umm, yeah). Lastly, it needs cool action scenes (this one gets a maybe from me, they were spectacular and sometimes extremely cool, but most of the time I had no idea what was going on).

But there's one last matter that probably counts more than anything, I think the people making the film need to look like they give a crap. The first film had a lot of bloat and the action was almost as confusing as this time around, but I thought at its core at least some people in the creative team cared about the project. This time around they filled the film with cheap, stupid jokes and stereotypes in place of characters.

Right, before anything else, I paid to see this movie, and I´m not unhappy that I did.

Now, five of us went, one of the other guys was a hardcore fan (the guy has autobot/decepticon tattoos on both forearms...) and he loved the movie.
That being said, I believe he would have happily sat in the hall for two hours, as long as there were transformer toys...

As for the rest of us, we agreed that it was okay. Entertaining, it had MEGAN FOX which they really want you to notice in the movie. Never before have so many scenes of slomo running been shot...

The thing that really got to us was: Does the US really have that much military hardware five minutes from anywhere on the planet?
I mean, tanks on friggin hovercrafts five minutes from the pyramids just in case??
It felt like a "Look at my huuuge rippling biceps" kind of move, and it wasn´t entertaining. At all. In the first movie, a single decepticon whoops an entire base full of abrams and like hardware as if it was so many cardboard boxes, and they want to bring them here, against vastly superior Decepticons??? Sorry, I don´t buy. :(

But hey, as others have said, summer blockbusters don´t need to be brainy, and this certainly wasn´t so that´s good.

I look forward to watching Megan Fox 2 later tonight!

Also, how dare you compare Michael Bay to Uwe Boll. Uwe Boll has his own level of hell for what he has done in the movie business.

Michael Bay just pissed off some whiners.

Big difference.

I think Uwe Boll is really the only person in probably the whole world who should be executed for making movies.

sebster wrote:
Worse than all that, it was obvious no-one working on this movie cared at all about what they were producing. At one point, after Devestator has formed they cut to single Constructicons, then back to Devestator. It was an obvious, dreadful continuity error that is only allowed out the door when no-one involved cares at all about what they're making.

Who really cares indeed? It's a movie. They all have continuity errors man!

sebster wrote:
And you know why no-one cared about it? Because they knew they were shovelling crap out the door, aiming for an audience happy to accept robot gonad jokes and racial stereotypes.

I mentioned before about the racial stereotypes. It's like you're all pretending that the 80s was the fething pinnacle of human acceptance, like characters like Mr T, Jazz, Panthro and Lothar didn't exist. If for some reason you don't think the jive-talkin', hard-hitting but not-too-clever black dude character from every show from the 70s onwards was somehow a fair, rounded and well-presented representation of African Americans, then you are clearly rather misguided. I didn't like the autobot twins; purely becuase I didn't like them. Not becuase I have a misguided complex about me being some kind of social martyr for the black race.

Platuan4th wrote:Not to mention the seasons American didn't get.

Ooh, like Headmasters, Masterforce and Victory? I have all of them on DVD; they all freaking rock!

Platuan4th wrote:Don't forget the Beastformers/Battle Beasts. I freakin' love them!I miss the 80's...

Wasn't that "Uprising on Planet Beast" or something, from season 3? I remember that, I even have a few Battle Beast toys. They rock too.

Tek wrote:

I mentioned before about the racial stereotypes. It's like you're all pretending that the 80s was the fething pinnacle of human acceptance, like characters like Mr T, Jazz, Panthro and Lothar didn't exist. If for some reason you don't think the jive-talkin', hard-hitting but not-too-clever black dude character from every show from the 70s onwards was somehow a fair, rounded and well-presented representation of African Americans, then you are clearly rather misguided. I didn't like the autobot twins; purely becuase I didn't like them. Not becuase I have a misguided complex about me being some kind of social martyr for the black race.

You're forgetting one key thing here in this arguement.

The characters you mentioned, while indeed being stereotypes, at least have something positive within their characters. They're all "bad-a$$" black dudes that kick butt. They at least all have characteristics that children can aspire to....

The twins in the Transformer Movie are flat out stupid characters that cannot read, butcher english, and are generally offensive with NO redeeming qualities whatsoever. Obviously "black" characteristics, and offensive to anyone smart enough to notice.

Big difference.

Tek wrote:

sebster wrote:
Worse than all that, it was obvious no-one working on this movie cared at all about what they were producing. At one point, after Devestator has formed they cut to single Constructicons, then back to Devestator. It was an obvious, dreadful continuity error that is only allowed out the door when no-one involved cares at all about what they're making.

Who really cares indeed? It's a movie. They all have continuity errors man!

People who care about movies (and craftsmanship in general) care. People who just watch movies, probably not so much. If your idea of being a movie fan is renting a lot from Netflix you might not care. If you have gotten into discussions about German Expressionism vs Italian Neo-realism than you probably do care.


As far as the twins go and why people might be bothered I say it is just a movie, same as these little birds here.



I mean since when has storytelling meant anything to anyone or had any meaning or impact. I mean, sometimes I wonder why we even bother.

One of the things that bothered me the most was the re-using of a couple scenes from the first movie.

The Black jet engined Predator flying over the desert for example.

The twins annoying, yes, racist, you could say that. I'm not gonna say that the film makers were trying to be racist, maybe commenting on youth today, not only Black youngsters speak like that plenty of whites do as well.

The things that did bother me slightly I didn't let ruin the movie for me.

Deadshane1 wrote:
You're forgetting one key thing here in this arguement.

The characters you mentioned, while indeed being stereotypes, at least have something positive within their characters. They're all "bad-a$$" black dudes that kick butt. They at least all have characteristics that children can aspire to....

The twins in the Transformer Movie are flat out stupid characters that cannot read, butcher english, and are generally offensive with NO redeeming qualities whatsoever. Obviously "black" characteristics, and offensive to anyone smart enough to notice.

Big difference.

Deadshane1 wrote:Nope, sorry...movie was crap.

If you simply buy into Bay's sales technique, thats fine, but dont call it good movie making.

Bay doesnt have vision, he has a formula. That formula is a guaranteed successful film as far as hollywood goes. Adrenaline, potty humour, explosions, and hot chicks. Thats not good moviemaking, its salesmanship.

This sort of moviemaking doesnt satisfy an old Transformers fan when they're applied to an old favorite.

...and those stories WERE story driven...to a 13 year old.

Simply .... yes thats 100% true.

However that can be changed!

The time when your 1 ticket is worth more than the millions earned from the 13 year old is the time they'll make movie to your taste

It was OK, lots of explosions but I always felt like just having a 12 year old read through the plot would have made things 100x better.

I mean when a character, IN THE FILM, stops and asks someone to explain the plot it's NOT A GOOD SIGN.

Stuff happens because well why not?

Jetfire's a zillion years old but also in the Aerospace Museum and NO ONE NOTICED. Sure...

There's an airplane graveyard outside the museum that didn't even show up in the exterior shots. Why not?

Jetfire, AN AIRPLANE, decides to teleport to Egypt. OK, fine. Whatever.

Predator drones shift from have props to afterburners between shots.

I mean it's like a first draft. A $100 million first draft.

Tek wrote:
Ooh, like Headmasters, Masterforce and Victory? I have all of them on DVD; they all freaking rock!

Where'd you get yours? I can't find them anywhere and want them.

Also, I love that Arcee was a Headmaster. Sometimes, cartoon creators just don't think hard enough.

Tek wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:Don't forget the Beastformers/Battle Beasts. I freakin' love them!I miss the 80's...

Wasn't that "Uprising on Planet Beast" or something, from season 3? I remember that, I even have a few Battle Beast toys. They rock too.

It was indeed. I still have a bunch of Battle Beasts, they hang with my Transformers on my action figure display shelf(not to be confused with my MSiA display cabinet, of course).

Tek wrote:Who really cares indeed? It's a movie. They all have continuity errors man!

Outside of z grade films famous for their shoddy construction, it's rare to see an error that obvious. Devestator coming together was clearly one of the big moments of the film, to have so little interest in what you were putting on the screen that you'd show the same character unassembled is really poor.

And it isn't just that error. The error is symptomatic of a film made by people who felt they were making crap for idiots.

I mentioned before about the racial stereotypes. It's like you're all pretending that the 80s was the fething pinnacle of human acceptance, like characters like Mr T, Jazz, Panthro and Lothar didn't exist. If for some reason you don't think the jive-talkin', hard-hitting but not-too-clever black dude character from every show from the 70s onwards was somehow a fair, rounded and well-presented representation of African Americans, then you are clearly rather misguided. I didn't like the autobot twins; purely becuase I didn't like them. Not becuase I have a misguided complex about me being some kind of social martyr for the black race.

No, I'm not pretending the 80s were the pinnacle of human existance. There was a lot of racism in the media back then. I just like to think we're getting better, not worse. To actually have cruder stereotypes than the original cartoon is poor.

And again, it isn't just the stereotypes, its the patronising attitude of the creative team. They think their audience will eat up jokes that were so crappy.

Heh! Same man. Although I have two sets of shelves for my 'Formers; I'm a real bot nerd.

I got my Japanese transformers boxed sets from Play.com

Seeing as you're obviously awesome here are some links:

Headmasters:
http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/693212/Transformers-Headmasters-Takara-Box-Set-Vol-1/Product.html

Masterforce:
http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/900825/Transformers-Takara-Super-God-Masterforce-Box-Set/Product.html

Victory:
http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/934319/Transformers-Takara-Victory/Product.html

Super Boxed Set:
http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3434016/Transformers-Takara-Complete-Collection-Box-Set/Product.html

I'm so out of touch. I have no idea who or what Uwe Boll is.

I won't go see Transformers, I haven't seen the first one either.

dietrich wrote:I'm so out of touch. I have no idea who or what Uwe Boll is.

I won't go see Transformers, I haven't seen the first one either.

Uwe Boll is a german director who makes gakky horror films.

Is John Carpenter comparable or better?

Better. Actually, lots better.

I still think John Carpenter's The Thing and They Live (with Rowdy Roddy Piper!) are great movies. I'm not a huge fan of Halloween. Most of the rest of his, I either haven't seen or don't care for. Thanks for the reference. What's Uwe Boll done?

The thing is great. I really loved it. Boll has done such amazing films as House of the Dead, Alone in the Dark (1 & 2!), and Bloodrayne! His movies are mostly gakky video game adaptations with second rate actors such as Christian slater etc.

To paraphrase Cillf Claven, "What are four movies that I've never seen?" Man, I'm old. I remember when Christian Slater was one of the most popular actors.

The twins are irritating, but less so that G1 Daniel and Wheelie.

The movie was great, for what it was, a 2 hr long toy commercial. The old cartoons were great in there time, but now a days are just cheesy.

I think this is a good update for a new time and direction.

I kind of see people who hate this as apposed to the original cartoon as comparable to people who hated the New Trek Film as apposed to the original series, or people who hated the Battle Star Galactica as apposed to the original run.

This is a different time with different tastes and different needs in entertainment.

That said, megatron being a lackey, Mudflap & Skidz were full of fail, leg humping was needless and added nothing, and Dev's wrecking balls were humourous, but should have been in a gag reel on the DVD and not in the film. The deal in egypt was way to Stargate for my taste.

That said, con disguised as girl, sideswipe, jetfire, arcee triplets, soundwave, and ravage were full of so much bountiful win the rest is forgivable.

I really even like what they did with the Matrix of leadership, and I thought I would hate that.

Disclaimer: I drank over 2 pints of beer and a shot of 100 proof whiskey immediately before entering the theater, just so that I could forgive the parts of the film I knew I would hate. I am also someone who got out of this fandom to collect transformers for the last 5 or 6 years before coming back here, so that is where my bias sits. In addition I was at the premier for the 1st movie in Rhode Island in 2007.

Pub in mall with theater = Win!

I just saw it last night and loved it. In retrospect it had a few instances that were over the top, mostly involving the humans, but I was generally entertained. After the movie I generally felt like it was 8.30 well spent and my mind was blown by the sheer amount of robot fighting. Transformers was never a "smart" show. It was never a "well written" show. It was there to sell toys. I want to buy so many god damn toys now after seeing this movie.

The twins in the Transformer Movie are flat out stupid characters that cannot read, butcher english, and are generally offensive with NO redeeming qualities whatsoever. Obviously "black" characteristics, and offensive to anyone smart enough to notice.

Are you being sarcastic here? Or just amazingly racist. Those are not "black" characteristics as far as I can tell. I saw the characters as your standard louisiana country bumpkins. I also liked them and felt that they proved themselves in the end. The fact that you are trying to draw race from a regional accent, and gold teeth attached to giant robots that turn into cars is silly to me. They could be either white or black given the way they acted, but they were just giant robots that turned into cars.

ShumaGorath wrote:

The twins in the Transformer Movie are flat out stupid characters that cannot read, butcher english, and are generally offensive with NO redeeming qualities whatsoever. Obviously "black" characteristics, and offensive to anyone smart enough to notice.

Are you being sarcastic here? Or just amazingly racist. Those are not "black" characteristics as far as I can tell. I saw the characters as your standard louisiana country bumpkins. I also liked them and felt that they proved themselves in the end. The fact that you are trying to draw race from a regional accent, and gold teeth attached to giant robots that turn into cars is silly to me. They could be either white or black given the way they acted, but they were just giant robots that turned into cars.

Holy Hell I openly agree with Shuma about something... that the twins weren't racist.

I figured it might have been some sort of commentary about today's youth and the way they talk and act. To me the characters seemed like they were some of the younger Autobots, thus unable to read Cybertronian which if I remember correctly Bumblebee couldn't read either, neither could Ironhide, or any of them for that matter, thus making Jetfire important to the story.

ShumaGorath wrote:Those are not "black" characteristics as far as I can tell. I saw the characters as your standard louisiana country bumpkins.

Shuma, being from Louisiana, I have NEVER heard anyone in LA that talks like that that wasn't a rich black(and more than occasionally, white) kid in private school attempting to be ghetto and complaining about "the Man" keeping him down because he's black, and then, ONLY in New Orleans or Baton Rouge. Every "country bumpkin" I've met from swamp land, Northern, or Western LA was actually well spoken despite their lacking education system in a state notorious for being broke and withholding money from the school system.

I think..

what the OP means - is that Transformers the movie is not even similiar to any of the past Transformers we know of from the past - and hes disappointed because of that difference.


I watchd both the movies - It is true that they may both be decent movies.

I loved em when I watch them both - dont get me wrong.


But also in the back of my mind - something really nasty is lurking and bothering me. This movie ISNT even like the old Transformers I grew up with - which saddens me and somewhat bothers me in the backside of my head.


Decepticon turning into a chick human? = WTF. Why dont the decepticons all turn human then, lol.

That jaguar animal thing = Beast wars much?

IDk - just seeing it all was a weird fusion - but whatever.


I went watching this movie with low expectations anyways - and just watched it as entertainment.

nothing much more.