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Hmm, not sure whether to post this in here but strictly speaking, it's a SH question and not a 40K one....

OK, so my girlfriend and I played a game of SH last night, the first mission, and a couple of points came up which I couldn't satisfactorily answer one way or another so I was hoping I could find some second opinions here.

1) Last night we had an instance where 3 marines were one behind another in a corridor. A genestealer comes round the corner and attacks the sergeant in front who is on guard (not that it's much use though!) and kills him. Now the question is, can the genestealer carry on and kill the other 2 marines (assuming he has AP left of course) or does his action end? The rule book isnt clear, although I would say it tends to suggest the actions can continue if AP remain for that model. In this situation, it was quite conceivable that the stealer could have ripped through 3 marines in one go, which seems a tad excessive to me.

2) regarding the parry mechanic, the rule book says it allows the sergeant to force the stealer to reroll it's highest dice roll. What it doesnt say is what dice score is used as the close combat result. Example - stealer player rolls a 2, 5 and a 6. Marine player forces the 6 to be rerolled which turns up a 3. Is the 3 used as the result as it was a reroll or is the 5 used as it is now the highest number?

3) It mentions in the rules that marines can shoot for 'free' at the end of a move action. Given then that marines can move 4 spaces with their AP, does this mean they can move, shoot, move, shoot etc 4 times or is it only move 4 squares and 1 shoot at the end?

Normally, I'm the type of guy who reads the rules and then tries to use what I think is the writer's intent or meaning rather than getting pedantic and semantic about meaning. However, in this case, I find there are a few ambiguities which have no clear resolution either way. I wonder if this is a result of the rule book being much slimmer than we would normally expect? Don't get me wrong; I appreciate that my girlfriend doesnt have to digest a tome as thick as her arm in order to play the game but on the other hand, I think there is a loss of some clarity here.

From the top of my head -

1 - Yes the stealers can continue to rip marines apart as long as it has AP`s to attack and move forward.

2 - The Genestealer still uses the highest role, so in your example would now use the 5.

3 - Marines can combine a move action with a shoot, so could move forward, shoot, move again, shoot, etc.

Hope this makes sense.

The way to think of it is not what a model can do in its 'turn' but what it can do for each AP spent.

Thus, a marine could move forward and fire four times, then use two Command points to go onto Overwatch.

I think the idea is to give the game a more cinamatic feel to it with the way you can move and fire.

Yeah that's what I thought and assumed but I didnt think the rules were sufficiently clear enough for me to know either way.

I have a question about the flamer...it says it kills every model in that section on a 2+, so if you fire in a corridor the entire corridor piece burns? That would mean you can't fire the flamer in the same section you yourself are standing in right?

I was also confused about revealing blips. If a blip is voluntarily revealed before taking any action, then the genestealers can take their actions right, or does that take up their entire turn? Also, if you open a door and you're involuntarily revealed, do you get to keep taking actions? I'm pretty sure this is in the rulebook but it's way too early in the morning I guess since I'm having trouble trying to understand.

filbert wrote:1) Last night we had an instance where 3 marines were one behind another in a corridor. A genestealer comes round the corner and attacks the sergeant in front who is on guard (not that it's much use though!) and kills him. Now the question is, can the genestealer carry on and kill the other 2 marines (assuming he has AP left of course) or does his action end? The rule book isnt clear, although I would say it tends to suggest the actions can continue if AP remain for that model. In this situation, it was quite conceivable that the stealer could have ripped through 3 marines in one go, which seems a tad excessive to me.

2) regarding the parry mechanic, the rule book says it allows the sergeant to force the stealer to reroll it's highest dice roll. What it doesnt say is what dice score is used as the close combat result. Example - stealer player rolls a 2, 5 and a 6. Marine player forces the 6 to be rerolled which turns up a 3. Is the 3 used as the result as it was a reroll or is the 5 used as it is now the highest number?

3) It mentions in the rules that marines can shoot for 'free' at the end of a move action. Given then that marines can move 4 spaces with their AP, does this mean they can move, shoot, move, shoot etc 4 times or is it only move 4 squares and 1 shoot at the end?

I've not go the new edition, but it sounds very much like the original.

1). Yes the 'stealer player can keep on moving and attacking new targets until they run out of APs. So if he kills a Marine and has 3 action point left, he can step forward and engage the next. He can also attack the first marine a second time if the first result was a draw and he has APs left over.

2). You always take the highest of the three dice but can ask one to reroll the highest. Yes, this means if the 'stealer player rolls 6, 6 and 3 it's useless.

3). Think of it as stepping forward and firing the gun as a single action. You step forward and tghen resolve the firing all for a single AP. So yes, you can walk forward 4 spaces and shoot after each.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sidstyler wrote:I was also confused about revealing blips. If a blip is voluntarily revealed before taking any action, then the genestealers can take their actions right, or does that take up their entire turn? Also, if you open a door and you're involuntarily revealed, do you get to keep taking actions? I'm pretty sure this is in the rulebook but it's way too early in the morning I guess since I'm having trouble trying to understand.

The 'stealers get their full APs and can convert any time. Reasonably speaking the 'stealer player should convert a blip before they move into the view of the Marine player, either by stepping into a corridor or opening a door. Otherwise you could open a door with a blip, then flip the blip over and reveal it is a '3'. But the genestealer at the front of the '3' will go down in the space previously occupied by the door, so has effectively has had a move closer to the marine for free which doesn't seem fair is he's on overwatch. Same again if you move a blip into a T-section which the Marine can see. You convert the '3' and one 'stealer goes on each side, well effectively one has crossed the T-section without the Marine getting a shot in over-watch.

This never seemed adequately addressed that I recall, which is why I believe that the genestealer player should try their best to always avoid the "involuntary reveal" in a circumstance where it gives advantage. The situation is less avoidable when a Marine walks around a corner forcing a blip to reveal, but the 'stealer player can avoid it in their turn.

I've drawn up a diagram of this below and would like to know people's thoughts.

I didn't think a Blip could ever reveal itself by wandering into LoS? Which precludes the door issue, as to do so would indeed be revealing itself.

If you wish to voluntarily convert a blip, it has to be done outside of LoS. Though I suppose that you could then place a Stealer straight into LoS, had you done it on the corner of a junction.

Sidstyler wrote:I have a question about the flamer...it says it kills every model in that section on a 2+, so if you fire in a corridor the entire corridor piece burns? That would mean you can't fire the flamer in the same section you yourself are standing in right?

You absolutely can flame yourself. That used to be a tactic we used back in the day: if the flamer gets swarmed by bugs, he blows himself up to take as many with him as he can- the ol' Vasquez maneuver.

There used to be a specific rule for detonating your Heavy Flamer. Same went for the Thunder Hammer.

On Overwatch: If I fail to kill a Stealer and another Stealer moves up behind it, I can't shoot at it right, even though it is in sight.

filbert.

1. I think this is one of those instances where you want to space your Terminators could so that they can cover each other. I think it's called "bounding overwatch" or somesuch.

Not completely off-topic, but I'd been eye-balling some Dalek miniatures I picked up some years ago. All this talk of Space Hulk is giving me ideas.

BrookM wrote:On Overwatch: If I fail to kill a Stealer and another Stealer moves up behind it, I can't shoot at it right, even though it is in sight.

no as you cannot shoot a model you cannot see

BrookM wrote:On Overwatch: If I fail to kill a Stealer and another Stealer moves up behind it, I can't shoot at it right, even though it is in sight.

Except that it's not in sight, because the stealer you failed to kill is still in the way.

So you can't move a blip through a room, and open a door with said blip if there's a Marine staring right down the hallway since you'd reveal yourself?

I wasn't trying to flame myself, as I needed to keep the flamer guy alive, but I didn't think at the time that he was in the same 3-square-sized board section so he really should have died.

You may not move a blip into LOS with a Terminator such that it would be revealed. So, to use Howard's diagram few posts back, Illustration #2 is an illegal move because the blip cannot move into the hallway in sight of a Terminator on Overwatch.

You can:

1) Voluntarily reveal a blip at any time. If the blip has not moved then the Genestealers have their full AP available to them.

2) Have a blip involuntarily revealed by a Terminator, in which case the Genestealers are placed on the board by the Terminator player.


I believe that you can also move a blip and then reveal it, but then the Genestealers cannot use any remaining AP.

Can a model move diagonally across a corner? The rulebook seems to say that you can cut corners on walls and models but not when you want to move between two such objects.

A situation came up where I moved to an intersection with a Termi, cut the corner forward placing me next to a blip, then turned to face the blip thus revealing it. The blip was a 3 and with only 2 legal spaces for genestealers I got a free kill.

Just seemed odd - if you had to move past a corner and turn in order to go around it this wouldn't happen. It's like the Termi is like "I'm not looking! I'm not looking! Haha, fooled ya."

So am I getting something wrong here?

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:I was also confused about revealing blips. If a blip is voluntarily revealed before taking any action, then the genestealers can take their actions right, or does that take up their entire turn? Also, if you open a door and you're involuntarily revealed, do you get to keep taking actions? I'm pretty sure this is in the rulebook but it's way too early in the morning I guess since I'm having trouble trying to understand.

The 'stealers get their full APs and can convert any time.

Cairnius wrote:You may not move a blip into LOS with a Terminator such that it would be revealed. So, to use Howard's diagram few posts back, Illustration #2 is an illegal move because the blip cannot move into the hallway in sight of a Terminator on Overwatch.

You can:

1) Voluntarily reveal a blip at any time. If the blip has not moved then the Genestealers have their full AP available to them.

2) Have a blip involuntarily revealed by a Terminator, in which case the Genestealers are placed on the board by the Terminator player.


I believe that you can also move a blip and then reveal it, but then the Genestealers cannot use any remaining AP.

I think that is incorrect. A voluntary blip conversion must occur before the blip has been activated, instead of activating it. You then replace the blip with the genestealers which have full AP.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this then means that:
1. Blips cannot voluntarily convert the turn they enter play as it takes 1AP to enter play, so have been activated to get onto the board.
2. Blips cannot enter through an entry point that a space Marine can draw line of sight to.

N1NJ4 wrote:Can a model move diagonally across a corner? The rulebook seems to say that you can cut corners on walls and models but not when you want to move between two such objects.

A situation came up where I moved to an intersection with a Termi, cut the corner forward placing me next to a blip, then turned to face the blip thus revealing it. The blip was a 3 and with only 2 legal spaces for genestealers I got a free kill.

Just seemed odd - if you had to move past a corner and turn in order to go around it this wouldn't happen. It's like the Termi is like "I'm not looking! I'm not looking! Haha, fooled ya."

So am I getting something wrong here?

It is my understanding that you can move diagonally past a corner or one other model but not through two such objects.

Teh_K42 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but this then means that:
1. Blips cannot voluntarily convert the turn they enter play as it takes 1AP to enter play, so have been activated to get onto the board.
2. Blips cannot enter through an entry point that a space Marine can draw line of sight to.

1. Blips can reveal at the entry point (before they come on the board), so the Genestealers can come on using their AP.
2.That is correct, blips cannot be voluntarily placed in LOS of a marine, so could not enter through an entry point that was in LOS of a marine. However you can reveal the blip before it enters and then come on in LOS of the marine, because the reveal was not in LOS of the marine (technnically off the board reveal).

Oh, and you can reveal a blip at anytime during it's use of AP, but if it has moved at all the Genestealers cannot use any AP, so it is normally best to reveal first, if you want the genestealers to do anything.

airmang wrote:

Teh_K42 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but this then means that:
1. Blips cannot voluntarily convert the turn they enter play as it takes 1AP to enter play, so have been activated to get onto the board.
2. Blips cannot enter through an entry point that a space Marine can draw line of sight to.

1. Blips can reveal at the entry point (before they come on the board), so the Genestealers can come on using their AP.
2.That is correct, blips cannot be voluntarily placed in LOS of a marine, so could not enter through an entry point that was in LOS of a marine. However you can reveal the blip before it enters and then come on in LOS of the marine, because the reveal was not in LOS of the marine (technnically off the board reveal).

Oh, and you can reveal a blip at anytime during it's use of AP, but if it has moved at all the Genestealers cannot use any AP, so it is normally best to reveal first, if you want the genestealers to do anything.

Emphasis mine.

Agreed on points 1 and 2 after I read it properly, but where do you get the rest from? All I can find is this:

Space Hulk rulebook page 16 states:"He reveals the blip instead of activating it; if the blip has done anything that action phase then it cannot be revealed"

I infer from this that a blip cannot be flipped after using AP as that would constitute doing 'anything in the action phase'.

Just a quick question - Are the 1st edtion rules for power armoured marines online anywhere?

Teh_K42 wrote:
Agreed on points 1 and 2 after I read it properly, but where do you get the rest from? All I can find is this:

Space Hulk rulebook page 16 states:"He reveals the blip instead of activating it; if the blip has done anything that action phase then it cannot be revealed"

I infer from this that a blip cannot be flipped after using AP as that would constitute doing 'anything in the action phase'.

Sorry, you are correct. I was confusing that part with the part in the involuntary reveal during the genestealers turn, where if the blip has used any AP, the revealed stealers cannot do anything.

But you can choose to reveal a blip after it has used some AP, correct? The revealed 'Stealers then can't do anything else, however.

No, it would seem that you cannot reveal the genestealer if the Blip has activated at all during the stealer action phase. That last part that Teh_K42 stated is right from the rules. So if the Blip spends even 1 AP it cannot be revealed voluntarily.

Did a little diagram to show how you do it since you cant move into los with blips

Is still wrong the above example, as the blip has moved, preventing the newly revealed 'Stealer from taking it's APs.

Wrong? No.
1. Move as close as possible (without getting in los)
Next turn
2. Reveal Genestealers. (out of los)
3. Move Genestealers

What annoyed me was how the difference between the Reinforcements phase on the genestealers action phase are not clearly defined. I had a pretty good idea how it was suppose to work, but it sure wasn't as clearly layed out as it shoulda been.

winterman wrote:What annoyed me was how the difference between the Reinforcements phase on the genestealers action phase are not clearly defined. I had a pretty good idea how it was suppose to work, but it sure wasn't as clearly layed out as it shoulda been.

Yes, this is the only thing that is ambigous in the rules in my oppinion. But as far as i understand the reinforcement phase ends after placing the reinforcement blips outside the entry points.

Ghidorah