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Part 5 in our 5 part series.

Game # 5

So after winning my last game I am 3-0-1 and I am headed up to table #1 to play against the only undefeated player left.

Steve Katsaris’s 101 Space Marines
HQ
Librarian w/Null Zone and Avenger

Elite
5 Assault Terminators w/3 Storm Shield/Thunder Hammers, 2 Lightning Claws

10 Sternguard w/4 Combi-Flamers, 4 Combi-Meltas
Drop Pop

Troops
5 Scouts w/Sniper Rifles, Heavy Bolter

9 Tactical Marines w/Missile Launcher, Flamer,
Sergeant w/Power Fist
Drop Pod

9 Tactical Marines w/Missile Launcher, Melta,
Sergeant w/Combi-Melta
Drop Pod

9 Tactical Marines w/Missile Launcher, Melta,
Sergeant w/Power Fist
Drop Pod

Heavy Support
Land Raider Crusader w/Multi-Melta, Extra Armor


You can’t tell by the pictures, but he has a very well painted army.


Mission: Modified Seize Ground
5 Objectives with one of them placed in the center of the table that is worth 2 objectives.

Deployment: Pitched Battle

Game Length: 7 Turns

Special Rules:
Infiltrate
Deep Strike
Outflank
Reserves

My Strategy for the game:
There were a lot of armies at the top tables that were identical to this army. They were doing well, and I never thought much of them. I used my anti-drop pod strategy of starting my entire army in reserve.


I win the die roll to go first and choose to go second. There is a huge advantage to go second in this game. Not only will most of the Drop Pods be down and I get to react to his placement, but in an objective mission when the game has a set number of missions it lets you go for a last turn objective grab.


Setup
Ignore the Drop Pod that was getting ready to come on below.

He had his sniper scouts on the left, his LRC with his terminators in the middle. He combat squaded a tac squad and has half on one objective in the woods, and the other with a missile launcher behind the bastion.

The objective markers are green with the red one in the center being worth 2 objectives. Two objectives were in the back left of the marine deployment zone, and 2 were in the Eldar area to the left center, and right center.

Turn #1

Space Marine turn #1
Pods come down. He looks to castle up around the center objective. He drives his land raider forward, and he drops and empty drop pod in my deployment zone,


Eldar turn #1
*crickets*

Turn #2

Space Marine turn #2
More pods come down and he is staking out his ground. The pods in the foreground are tac marines, and the one in the back left is Sternguard.



Eldar turn #2
I got on the Avatar, Harlequins, Jetbikes, 2 Guardian Squads, and a War Walker squad.

I turbo boost the Jetbikes up the left side of the board. The Walk Walkers shoot at the Tac squad behind the bastion that is claiming an objective and kill 3 of them. The guardians shoot at the Land Raider and immobilize it (that was a bit of luck for me because the greatly decreased his threat radius). My avatar shoots at the Drop Pod and stuns it.


Turn #3

Space Marine turn #3
His 2 marines behind the bastion run behind it so they are out of LOS. He unloads on my front guardian squad and kills 5 of them.



Eldar turn #3
I get the Falcon with the Fire Dragons and Eldrad and my last Guardian squad on.
My Jetbikes fry the scout squad. The Harlequins kill the empty drop pod. The War Walkers shoot up a few of the Sternguard.



Turn #4

Space Marine turn #4
He starts to back up his Strenguard to get behind the Drop Pod. He shoots my guardian squad down to 2 guys. And stuns a Walker.
(No Picture)

Eldar turn #4
Well, I need troops, so I dump the Fire Dragons out, and put the last 2 guardians that are in the shot up squad in the Falcon and make it a scoring unit. The Walkers shoot the Tac Marines in front of the Harlies and kill a few.



Turn #5

Space Marine turn #5
Looking to do what I did, he dumps out his Terminators and loads up on his 2 Tac Marines that were shot up the turn before. He kills a Fire Dragon. He has lost a lot of his long range shooting.



Eldar turn #5
I finally get my last War Walker squad on. Eldrad tried to cast 3 psychic powers and the Psychic Hood shuts him down. Everyone moves up and my Jetbikes turbo-boosts across the board. I fly my Falcon across the board to go after the 2 Marines hiding behind the bastion and on an objective. The Fire Dragons shoot at the Terminators and do 4 wounds and he fails 3 of their saves. Since it is getting late in the game, I try to shoot him off his objective in the back right, and he has one guy left on it. The Harlies try to assault his terminators and he runs away (which I still have questions about) so they are left standing there.


Turn #6

Space Marine turn #6
He shoots at my Jetbikes and the Fire Dragons with his Tac Marines and kills a couple. He tries to shoot my Harlies with his LRC and rolls snake eyes for spotting though veil of tears. He machine spirits the melta to shoot at the Falcon and knocks it down (argh!! I forgot to use my star engines and he gets a lucky shot!)


Eldar turn #6
For the second straight turn he completely shuts down Eldrad. The Avatar or a brightlance finally kills that LRC and the Harlequins go after what is left.


Turn #7

Space Marine turn #7
There are just a few random guys running around at this point. The Harlies finish off the Librarian and the Tac Squad they were fighting.



Eldar turn #7
I move my Jetbikes up to the center objective and I have a guardian squad on my 2 objectives. I didn’t even have to bother assaulting or shooting him off his objective.


End Game
Overall a great game against a great opponent! Steve was a great guy, and I enjoyed our game. He got lucky a few times (shutting down Eldrad for 2 turns, shooting down my Falcon), and I got lucky a few times (Immobilizing his Land Raider, Veil of Tears at close range for my Harlequins) so it all evened out at the end.



So after the end of the game they tallied up the points, and took home first place by going 4-0-1 and scoring the most VPs.

I took home $300 worth of Necrons, and a $300 gift certificate to Battlefoam.

Overall I had a lot of fun, and had 5 great opponents. It was a shame that a couple of missions were not up to par. But overall it was well run, and they had great prize support and everyone who entered got some good swag from Galeforce 9 with their TAC Template, and Turn Counter, and a brick of Chessex dice, so about $30 worth of swag, and a good lunch on both days.

They did a good thing by posting the missions beforehand to get some feedback, and hopefully they will make some more improvements for next year’s tournament.

Thanks for reading these batreps,

-Allan Hernandez

gratz on the victories Blackmoor! That's a pretty nice stack of shwag to take home.

Blackmoor wrote:. The Harlies try to assault his terminators and he runs away (which I still have questions about) so they are left standing there.

what's this all about? Do you mean they lost the assault, and chose to fail their morale check? Do you mean they chose to fail morale after losing 3 to the fire dragons? Those're both kosher moves via ATSKNF, though it doesn't appear to matter one way or the other for him.

btw, I like the Avatar; that's the FW one if I'm not mistaken, yes?

Steve was a great guy and the only person to hand me a loss during the tournament.

Great battle reports, I can definitely learn something about good generalship from these reports.

Thanks.

The Defenestrator wrote:gratz on the victories Blackmoor! That's a pretty nice stack of shwag to take home.

Blackmoor wrote:. The Harlies try to assault his terminators and he runs away (which I still have questions about) so they are left standing there.

what's this all about? Do you mean they lost the assault, and chose to fail their morale check? Do you mean they chose to fail morale after losing 3 to the fire dragons? Those're both kosher moves via ATSKNF, though it doesn't appear to matter one way or the other for him.

btw, I like the Avatar; that's the FW one if I'm not mistaken, yes?

I believe he opted to fall back with use of Combat Tactics, since killing 3 marines in the shooting phase would have caused a morale check.. So you kill 3, he auto-fails and falls back before the assault happens.

Mundar wrote:

I believe he opted to fall back with use of Combat Tactics, since killing 3 marines in the shooting phase would have caused a morale check.. So you kill 3, he auto-fails and falls back before the assault happens.

Ok, that makes sense.

The way it played out was that I declared a charge against them with the Harlequins, and he ran back. It was like fantasy where he fled from a charge.

But I think I went out of turn before he did his morale check from shooting, and he chose to fail his morale check.

Yeah its a smart move, but he loses cool points for not punching space clowns in the face. I mean, who runs from clowns?

Yep. "Combat Tactics", the new SM rule, is a great ability that I think a lot of people underestimate. Great job on the win!

Great job Allan. I've just assumed that when I take my 1500pt Eldar army up in points that I would add in a 4th unit of guardians, but I am beginning to see the versatility of having the 4-man jetbike squad with warlock. They are around the same points and I think I'll get the jetbikes.

I think your list is a little better than mine right now. I've got Warp Spiders for crowd control and you have war walkers. I like the range of the warwalkers over the survivabilty of the Warp Spiders. If I were to take war walkers, I think I would have a hard time not taking 6 missile launchers on them over scatter lasers. I understand the shear volume of fire the scatter lasers bring, but I am to enamored with the extra 12" range of the missiles, plus the possibility of taking out heavier armor at long range and even dumping 6 mini-pie plates for crowd control. Sometimes the points don't fit though and I'll have to stay with the Warp Spiders for my own list.

Good lob with the list and the tactics.

There are a lot of little tweaks that I have thought about.

Farseer for Eldrad: That saves 50 points (More if you only want 2 powers), and you can still Doom/Guide/Fortune (but only 2 a turn).

Warp Spiders: I was able to use them in the ‘Ard Boyz and like what they did. Not only are they fast, but they have good shooting, and they have a reasonable assault with Power Blades and Withdraw (They normally need a little help from Doom to be a good assault unit).

Taking War Walkers with Shuriken Cannons: That drops there price down to only 120 points and still can shoot 18 strength 6 shots. The problem with Missile Launchers is that I am always up against Terminators with Thunderhammers and Storm Shields and I need to take them down with volume of fire.

Another Jetbike squad: I like the way they are configured and fill many roles, and to have another fast moving troop unit would be a good thing.

I was pulling for you all hte WAY Allan. This tournament you shined like the champion you are.

CONGRATULATIONS !!!!!

G

And Blackmoor turns Dakkatactics on its head yet again...

Blackmoor wrote:There are a lot of little tweaks that I have thought about.

Farseer for Eldrad: That saves 50 points (More if you only want 2 powers), and you can still Doom/Guide/Fortune (but only 2 a turn).

But Eldrad is more resilient to Perils because of his 3+ Ghosthelm, has better armor with his 3+ rune armor, a power weapon, can obviously cast 2 powers, (which works great with a shooting army, Guide x 2 + Doom or what have you) and is T4, so is a tad tougher than your average seer.

I think those 50 points are worth it. Plus, he also has all the other powers just in case you need Mind War, Fortune or Eldritch Storm in a pinch. He's like a swiss army knife of awesome. I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice by not using him.

Great series of reports. Glad to see that a non-typical army was able to be taken and pull out the overall win in a field of 60 players. Units that many folks have written off still proved to be of use. Thanks for sharing the reports.

Blackmoor wrote:...hopefully they will make some more improvements for next year’s tournament.

May I suggest some terrain for the tables. That'd be a good place to start.

I can't tell you how much my heart sinks when I see pictures of a table devoid of terrain.

Fantastic job dude! You truly deserve the win!

So were there any competitive armies at this tournament?

Timmah wrote:So were there any competitive armies at this tournament?

Competitive armies compared to what other tourneys? As far as I can tell, the armies look fairly typical to any largish tourney.

Sarigar wrote:

Timmah wrote:So were there any competitive armies at this tournament?

Competitive armies compared to what other tourneys? As far as I can tell, the armies look fairly typical to any largish tourney.

Most of these armies have many design flaws.

Bringing 1 vehicle, no mobility, ect.

I mean this is like one of the top table armies and all it is, is basically 40 space marines who drop in and then stand where they are for the rest of the game and shoot at you. Really? That is considered quality/competitive?

Remember the missions were posted ahead of time and people could/should tailor their lists to best compete in those missions. The mission where you won by getting an objective off your opponents table edge is not easy for most lists to do. I wasn't there but all it would take is a clarification that the objective can not embark in a vehicle and it's almost an autolose for all vet mech IG and Mech Eldar (the ones with 5 dire avengers in wave serpents as troops. Most all mech lists sacrifice walking bodies for armor and that mission sounds like it would be difficult for those armies to pull off a win.

DarthDiggler wrote:Remember the missions were posted ahead of time and people could/should tailor their lists to best compete in those missions. The mission where you won by getting an objective off your opponents table edge is not easy for most lists to do. I wasn't there but all it would take is a clarification that the objective can not embark in a vehicle and it's almost an autolose for all vet mech IG and Mech Eldar (the ones with 5 dire avengers in wave serpents as troops. Most all mech lists sacrifice walking bodies for armor and that mission sounds like it would be difficult for those armies to pull off a win.

So everyone made crappy footslogging lists for 1 mission? Yea, I have a hard time believing that.

No but the cookie cutter internet lists would have been knocked out of the running from that mission and Blackmoor wouldn't have seen them in later rounds.

Timmah wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:Remember the missions were posted ahead of time and people could/should tailor their lists to best compete in those missions. The mission where you won by getting an objective off your opponents table edge is not easy for most lists to do. I wasn't there but all it would take is a clarification that the objective can not embark in a vehicle and it's almost an autolose for all vet mech IG and Mech Eldar (the ones with 5 dire avengers in wave serpents as troops. Most all mech lists sacrifice walking bodies for armor and that mission sounds like it would be difficult for those armies to pull off a win.

So everyone made crappy footslogging lists for 1 mission? Yea, I have a hard time believing that.

shhhhh, here is a tip, footslogging lists are not crappy.

Timmah wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:Remember the missions were posted ahead of time and people could/should tailor their lists to best compete in those missions. The mission where you won by getting an objective off your opponents table edge is not easy for most lists to do. I wasn't there but all it would take is a clarification that the objective can not embark in a vehicle and it's almost an autolose for all vet mech IG and Mech Eldar (the ones with 5 dire avengers in wave serpents as troops. Most all mech lists sacrifice walking bodies for armor and that mission sounds like it would be difficult for those armies to pull off a win.

So everyone made crappy footslogging lists for 1 mission? Yea, I have a hard time believing that.

Lets see, I got to play against:
1. Tooled up mech/nurgle chaos marines
2. Tooled up mech space wolves
3. Nidzilla
4. Shep's mech guard
5. Tooled up lash/mech nurgle marines.

Not competitive? Hardly.. Those are some hard-ball lists.

Luck of the draw. Some people didn't have to fight quite as nasty lists, others did.. The mindset of "the internets say its good, so it must be" is a flawed one at best. Most solid players can bring nearly anything to the table and give as good of a beating as they get, it doesn't need to be a forum cookie cutter build to do so. Save that for MTG.

Mundar wrote:

Lets see, I got to play against:
1. Tooled up mech/nurgle chaos marines
2. Tooled up mech space wolves
3. Nidzilla
4. Shep's mech guard
5. Tooled up lash/mech nurgle marines.

Not competitive? Hardly.. Those are some hard-ball lists.

Luck of the draw. Some people didn't have to fight quite as nasty lists, others did.. The mindset of "the internets say its good, so it must be" is a flawed one at best. Most solid players can bring nearly anything to the table and give as good of a beating as they get, it doesn't need to be a forum cookie cutter build to do so. Save that for MTG.

Uh, I would like to see these lists. Mech Chaos is not good, Lash chaos is not good. Space wolves don't do mech all that good. Nidzilla is not good. Shep's mech guard is pretty solid.

So you played 1 good army. Its not the internet that has convinced me these lists are bad. It is me looking at said lists and realizing they are bad. Hey look, I brought one land raider and no other vehicles. I wonder if it will survive past the first turn...

Besides Shep's IG (and possibly that one guys salamanders) I have yet to see and real/well built mech armies. I would honestly bet I could wipe the floor with most of these armies with either my mech SM or Tau. Makes me wish I had money/time to fly to these events.

Timmah wrote:

Sarigar wrote:

Timmah wrote:So were there any competitive armies at this tournament?

Competitive armies compared to what other tourneys? As far as I can tell, the armies look fairly typical to any largish tourney.

Most of these armies have many design flaws.

Bringing 1 vehicle, no mobility, ect.

I mean this is like one of the top table armies and all it is, is basically 40 space marines who drop in and then stand where they are for the rest of the game and shoot at you. Really? That is considered quality/competitive?

Do you attend the larger tourneys? Do you offer more than just saying armies suck? It seems to be a trend this entire year (not just you) with folks continuously bashing tourney winners armies. Funny how many of the tourneys have been won by folks playing with armies deemed 'less than competitive'.

I guess it's just been luck at every tourney this year

Timmah wrote:

Mundar wrote:

Lets see, I got to play against:
1. Tooled up mech/nurgle chaos marines
2. Tooled up mech space wolves
3. Nidzilla
4. Shep's mech guard
5. Tooled up lash/mech nurgle marines.

Not competitive? Hardly.. Those are some hard-ball lists.

Luck of the draw. Some people didn't have to fight quite as nasty lists, others did.. The mindset of "the internets say its good, so it must be" is a flawed one at best. Most solid players can bring nearly anything to the table and give as good of a beating as they get, it doesn't need to be a forum cookie cutter build to do so. Save that for MTG.

Uh, I would like to see these lists. Mech Chaos is not good, Lash chaos is not good. Space wolves don't do mech all that good. Nidzilla is not good. Shep's mech guard is pretty solid.

So you played 1 good army. Its not the internet that has convinced me these lists are bad. It is me looking at said lists and realizing they are bad. Hey look, I brought one land raider and no other vehicles. I wonder if it will survive past the first turn...

Besides Shep's IG (and possibly that one guys salamanders) I have yet to see and real/well built mech armies. I would honestly bet I could wipe the floor with most of these armies with either my mech SM or Tau. Makes me wish I had money/time to fly to these events.

The salamanders you saw are my army a friend is using...

And considering the scenarios? these lists were solid.

1. Mech nurgle for kill points in game one. Carrying the football in game two with t5, FNP and fearless backed up by princes. Game 3, survives in night fight and for table quarters. Game 4, can take a pasting with no terrain, lash assists. Game 5, survives on objectives, lashes you off them. Mech chaos is good due to how tough the troops are to kill, the special weapon spam, versatile heavy weapons and the lash utility.

2. nidzilla, again.. Difficult to get kill points. MC's carry the football. Game 3 they were boned. Game 4, luck of the draw. Game 5, solid as usual. I don't see anything wrong there.

3. Mech Space Wolves, just because stelek says it sucks doesn't mean it does. Game 1, difficult to get kill points from due to Raiders and large squads. Game 2, huge blood claw mobs for the objective. Game 3, Huge units in table quarters. Game 4, luck of the draw. Game 5, standard which isnt bad.. They go up the middle and crush the objective thats worth 2. Mech wolves have versatile squads, cheap units. Still wreck in close combat, and can spam specials making them mobile. etc etc

4. Shep's guard, don't need to say more.

5. Same as number 1.

These people built lists that worked well in the scenarios, I'll make an exception for game 4. Nidzilla had more of a disadvantage than the others however. There is no black and white, good lists vs. bad ones.. Only good players vs. bad ones.

"Real/well built mech armies" aren't the end all, be all of tournament play. They do well considering it takes about 1/4 of a brain to use them.. But again, a skilled player can pick them apart no problem with whatever he is comfortable fielding. I was the only person to hand Shep a loss, and my army wasn't mech. Just a couple of drop pods.. And I could wipe the floor with your mech tau/sm with any of my sub-standard lists because I know what I'm doing, not because I know how to copy/paste an army list.

And please come on out to any of our events, we're always looking for more fresh meat around here

Mundar wrote:

"Real/well built mech armies" aren't the end all, be all of tournament play. They do well considering it takes about 1/4 of a brain to use them.. But again, a skilled player can pick them apart no problem with whatever he is comfortable fielding. I was the only person to hand Shep a loss, and my army wasn't mech. Just a couple of drop pods.. And I could wipe the floor with your mech tau/sm with any of my sub-standard lists because I know what I'm doing, not because I know how to copy/paste an army list.

And please come on out to any of our events, we're always looking for more fresh meat around here

So basically good person with a bad list will be a bad person with a good list... Ok, I agree completely. But Good person with a good list will beat a good person with a bad list.

Obviously I just copy and paste an army list from the internet and think its good...

Stop trying to argue that these lists are good based on the fact that I am bad at 40k and so my argument is bad. Have you ever even played me? How would you know if I'm bad.

Now if you have some actual info on how foot even has a chance against mech armies, please enlighten me. Now Darth's army has a total of about 4 long range weapons that can hurt tanks and 4-10 short range weapons. Or something like that. How does he deal with a fully mech list with his foot list? Short answer is that he doesn't.

Warwalkers outflanking can easily be countered by a good opponent. Yet no one seemed to be able to... So maybe the quality of players at these events isn't all that good as you so claim.

This is not my list, it's Blackmoors and he did play, in your mind, a very good Mech IG list and got a tie. I don't recall many tanks being left at the end of the game either.

Do I assume you're bad? No. Am I about 99% sure I'd wreck anything you brought to the table 9 times out of 10? Yes.

How does foot work against mech? Everyone gears for mech these days. Spamming melta does jack against a ton of troops in cover. A vehicle can be blown up in one hit, a squad based heavy weapon usually can't. That same heavy weapon can't be stunned/shaken/weapon destroyed/immobilised. Also foot armies can cram a lot more bodies and guns in their lists as they aren't paying for transports. Its a pretty simple theory, their numbers can outlast your mobility.

Now in this case, you have mobile heavy weaponry. While Blackmoor's list is a bit light on anti-tank for my tastes, it was a sufficient amount for him given the scenarios and pairings. He isn't able to move 12 like a mech unit can, but he can move 6 onto objectives while pouring on the fire the entire time. He can run when a burst of speed is needed, and its tons easier to get a cover save for infantry than it is for vehicles. Add to this fortune/guide/doom and you have some reliable infantry, it is accurate and can take quite a pasting untill the heavy weapons go away. Does he need to stop all of your tanks? Not really.. I'm sure he's smart enough to take out key vehicles and maul whatever falls out.. Or failing that, leaving some "uber unit" stranded on the other side of the table without their ride. Thunderhammer terminators are pretty amazing while in the crusader, they suck donkey balls when theyre walking across the table and eating 48 s6 shots a turn.. and it isn't difficult to take that vehicle away from them.

He does have a bit of mobility, while its light.. It's not like it isn't there. You don't need to spam transports/jetbikes to have a "mobile" army. All he has to do is hide the unit untill he needs it, and let the game running out of turns take care of the rest. Could 4 squads of jetbikes contest an objective to get the win? yes.. Could one squad do the same? Yes.

Blackmoor handed shep a tie with his eldar in a scenario designed to tie.. Read the bat rep, Shep was in a bad spot at the end of that game. In any normal scenario, that would have probably been a loss for the guard. Short answer he doesn't handle mech? Actually, short answer is he does. And did.

And a good person with bad list vs. good person with good list doesn't always work out like your claim. My friend is a good player, he's using my Mech Salamanders which is a good army. I could take my worst army and table him in 3 turns just because I've been playing it longer and I know what I'm doing with it.

So what do you do against a foot army when they have superior firepower, cripple all those tanks you paid a ton of points for (or failing that, at least your lynchpins) and have you out numbered? I know mech is solid, I'm not saying its bad.. But the dismissive attitude for a foot army is misplaced. My point is, just because it is on foot does not mean its bad and mech is pure win.


I can't vouch for players from out of state, but our hometown guys were on the top tables all weekend. I don't think the calibre of player or army lists involved was in question this tournament, I'd say the blame lies with the unbalanced scenarios.

Please show me this mech list of yours that would have swept our tournament and wrecked everything in it's path because its "good". You've got me curious now... I really, really want to see this list.

The tie against the one mech army he faced was a joke. It required the mech player to charge in close to his opponent. And it was pretty much a draw no matter what you were playing.


Also, your mech salamanders list isn't that great. You have pretty much no way to deal with long range shooting in it.