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I verse a jumppacked BA army. I can kill his ranged (if I don't get distracted), I can whittle down his free Death company, but the flying combo that is hell on wheels forces me to turn enough of my army towards him that I begin to neglect things. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to kill them.

My army is an Ork gunline btw.

Death by plasma! Oh wait.. orks.

I would use a Dread or a Kan or three to take them out. Mephiston is only Str 5 on the charge, and has no Invulnerable save. Dante's a beast, but against walkers he's still squishy.

I guess the main problem you'll have is catching them, really. Lootas might be your best answer. Shoot them out of the sky.

1. Lootas
2. Lootas
3. Even more Lootas!

In a serious note, put 15 burnas in Battlewagon (or 12 in a Trukk) and pack them near the unit Dante's unit is probably gonna charge. When he closes up (or kills the unit) just go closer and unleash 10-15 burnas on the unit!
They WILL die. Bealive me.

Mephiston is T5 plus has FNP. both characters have 2+ armor save so no, a burna squad is not going to kill them.

G

Burna Boyz have power weapons in close combat. memphiston goes buh-bye!

I reccomend p.k's in any units that can take them, your opponent will think twice about charging when there is a chance he will lose his 200pt special character. Also, your Warboss w/ p.k. causes instant death to Memphiston. Abuse it well.

Mephiston will instant death the warboss over 9 times out of 10 with his force weapon before the ork can swing back.

Okay so your intent is to use the burna boyz as an assault squad. Let's assume there are ten boyz in a trukk all armed with burnaz. Suppose the boyz are blessed by Gork and Mork... their trukk is not destroyed and they get off the charge. First Dante and Mephiston get to strike first. Five attacks for both BA HQ plus Mephiston passes his psychic test and gets three additional attacks. So five for Dante and eight for Mephiston. Both BA HQ hit on 3+ with rerolls for missed hits.

Dante -> 5 attacks, 3 hit and 1 more for the rerolls = 4 hits, 2 wounds without armor saves

Mephiston -> 8 attacks, 5 hit and 2 more for the rerolls = 7 hits, 5 more wounds without armor saves

There are 3 boyz left with 3 attacks apiece hitting on 4+ -> 9 attacks total and 5 hit, suppose you put all the hits on Mephiston since he does not have an INV save. If you are lucky that's 2 wounds. Neither BA HQ is destroyed and the burna boyz are most likely overrun since they just lost combat by 5 wounds. If you target both BA HQ then they take even less wounds. If the BA HQ were to charge the burna boyz, which I feel is more likely then it's even worse for the boyz.

I think you would have much better odds with mega armored Nobz in an open topped battlewagon. That's just me though.

G

Kanz and Dreads are your best bet. Death Company might eventually bring them down with Rending, but Mephiston and Dante don't stand a chance.

Orc... gunline...? I didn't even know orcs could shoot gunline @_@

Anyways, like others said, Kans! The beauty of dreads and kans is they can take out super huge threats if the threat can't deal with armo are with a weapon skill The same thing happens everytime I try typhus... he gets charged by a dread or wraithlord and gets pwned.

Dante has a BS5 meltagun and Mephiston has a plasma pistol.

G

Cheese Elemental wrote:Kanz and Dreads are your best bet. Death Company might eventually bring them down with Rending, but Mephiston and Dante don't stand a chance.

Zid wrote:Orc... gunline...? I didn't even know orcs could shoot gunline @_@

Anyways, like others said, Kans! The beauty of dreads and kans is they can take out super huge threats if the threat can't deal with armo are with a weapon skill The same thing happens everytime I try typhus... he gets charged by a dread or wraithlord and gets pwned.

If Typhus is getting killed by wraithlords you are doing something wrong. Typhus is almost purpose built for killing MC's with 3+D6 attacks that always wound on 4's that are also force weapon attacks that don't require a psychic test....

On to OP's question. You deal with that nasty combo the same way orks deal with any infantry threat, MORE BOYS! if you get the charge with 30 boys that whole gaggle should be dropping to the 100+ attacks followed up by a PK nob just to make sure.

Thrakka with a squad of Nobz and a Painboy with cybork bodies and a Waaagh! banner in a BW maybe. If you Waaagh! into them, Thrakka has a 2++ save to use against the psyker insta- death thing, and the nobs have a 5++ save, which isn't great, but better than nothing. Your big choppa's and 'Urty syringe try for wounds early, and your PKs clean up at the end.

Just take s Stompa. Youll need it going up against hte greatest heroes ever of the Imperium.

G

You aren't able to use a force weapon if you have already cast your maximum number of spells, and if memphiston doesn't use it, he goes snip-snip. Also, whilst the boss might not work his magic statistically, the fear of losing his 200pt monster to a 100pt boss is a useful weapon.

Sorry if I am a bit biased, the last time I faced Memphiston he an his death company did nothing except die to a small unit of Harlequins. I was not impressed. Dante, however, is very potent. Kanz/Thraka are the only units I can advise.

Green Blow Fly wrote:Mephiston is T5 plus has FNP. both characters have 2+ armor save so no, a burna squad is not going to kill them.

G

roll enough dice and everything dies... 15 burnas fire their flamer templates first then charge... that should soften them up quite a bit, plus any gun on their trukk. I've killed a termy squad with a ton of lasguns it's always possible with numbers

Boyz

Warboss Gutrip wrote:You aren't able to use a force weapon if you have already cast your maximum number of spells, and if memphiston doesn't use it, he goes snip-snip.

Um, no. A force weapon counts as a power weapon. He doesn't have to use a psychic power to make it count as a power weapon, only to invoke the instant death capability which is what you are referring to. However, Mephy can use all three of the BA psychic powers and his force weapon each turn. It's in his Lord of Death rule in the codex.

I already provided the math hammer that shows the boyz will on average be chumped by Dante and Mephiston irregardless of who charges. I think the odds are in the favor of the BA HQ getting off the charge since they both count as having jump packs and orks have no counter to psychic abilities. If the BA HQ charge the boyz then the burnaz are only wounding Mephiston on the roll of a 6. He will pretty much clean their clocks.

Okay so let's do the math hammer for 12 burna boyz in a trukk pulling up to flame and charge the BA HQ. I wil be generous and assume that all the flamers can touch both HQ but assume they are not joined into one unit:

12 shots, 6 on Dante & another 6 on Mephiston
3 wounds on Dante who makes all his saves (artificer armor)
2 wounds on Mephiston who also makes all his saves (artificer armor)

Now the burna boyz attacks in close combat do not count as power weapons so it only gets better for the BA HQ.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Dante has a BS5 meltagun and Mephiston has a plasma pistol.

G

Cheese Elemental wrote:Kanz and Dreads are your best bet. Death Company might eventually bring them down with Rending, but Mephiston and Dante don't stand a chance.

Both of those only get one shot per turn, and when you take Kanz, you take nine of them.

Seriously who is going to set out the BA HQ to get charged by nine walkers?

G

Also having an ork arm myself and as much as i hate to say it our going to have to spend the point on some Mega Armoured nobz..and put them in a BW and cross you fingers and hope that Dante and Mephy dont hurt them to bad...kanz and dreads are too unreliable in this situation just to to the fact the dante and mephy are A quicker and B do have the fire power to pot shot them in a turn if your lucky may have one left and maybe dent the two but the only other option is a lootas. Roll a D3 get lucky and cross your fingers and pray the gork and mork are going to bless your dice enough to get enough rolls. But IMHO I would have to say the most reilable way is to spend the points on mega armoured nobz

I think the best way to run Mega armored nobz is take Ghaz and MDG, stick them in some battlewagons and have at it. Both Mephiston and Dante cannot slice and dice through these units and they are more reliable than kanz.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Seriously who is going to set out the BA HQ to get charged by nine walkers?

G

You can always hope...

Green Blow Fly wrote:...Dante and Mephiston irregardless of who charges.

Irregardless? Really?

The mathhammer is fine. The only problem is that collection of letters right there that isn't really... well... a word.

Edit: I stand corrected.

Go teach English in Potswania... Im sure you will be very popular there!

G

Do not take this seriously at all, but
Green Blow Fly sure does intend not to give up about Dante and his super-mega-uberness.
445 points for only two of them.

15 Lootas
Shokk Attack Gun
7 Lootas

They all hit only Mephiston, Lootas about 2 times each for 22*2=44, with about 15 hitting, and 12-13 wounding.
Now he fails at least two wounds (by mathhammer, not taking into record the luck that almost always gives the saver third 1) and is down to one wound. Then he gets shot by Shokk Attack Gun, and about 33% chance of hitting and with one wound, almost definetly killing him (assuming no weird things happen like double 2s etc.).

Guess what happens to Dante next turn?
Thought I can say that he would take a few rounds, it is not impossible.
EDIT: All the Mathhammer are done with not very in-depth counting, so possibilities of being wrong is possible.

Green Blow Fly wrote:
Dante -> 5 attacks, 3 hit and 1 more for the rerolls = 4 hits, 2 wounds without armor saves

Mephiston -> 8 attacks, 5 hit and 2 more for the rerolls = 7 hits, 5 more wounds without armor saves


G

Thats not a good representation.

Dante - 4.69 hit, 2.345 dead.

Mephiston - 7.12 hit, 4.77 dead. (S5 assumed, cant tell by your math)

Green Blow Fly wrote:

Okay so let's do the math hammer for 12 burna boyz in a trukk pulling up to flame and charge the BA HQ. I will be generous and assume that all the flamers can touch both HQ but assume they are not joined into one unit:

12 shots, 6 on Dante & another 6 on Mephiston
3 wounds on Dante who makes all his saves (artificer armor)
2 wounds on Mephiston who also makes all his saves (artificer armor)

Now the burna boyz attacks in close combat do not count as power weapons so it only gets better for the BA HQ.

G

That's not how it works. First off, The flamer template will probably hit both. Its tough to assume that both HQs are going to be assaulted but only take half the template shots.

6 wounds on each, 1 wound on dante, and 0.5 wounds on mephiston (FNP).

Even if you assume it's 6 and 6 hits each, It's still 0.5 wounds and 0.25 wounds respectively.

Do the two HQs not roll around with the deathcompany, and then detach to unleash rape elsewhere?

That's a great point. The green advocates purely assume they can just stroll right up and take a whack at both HQ.

I said in my example for placing the burna templates that the two HQ are not joined together but in fact I still let the burna boyz target two separate units. I was letting the orks cheat for an advantage just to better illustrate my point. The fact is orks are just not that great in close combat, excluding nobz, warbosses and some of the special characters.

G

Or the mass of boyz. They can do some serious damage. However units like blood angels death company with 2 characters attached will wade through boyz like arnold schwarzenegger fighting children.

Green Blow Fly wrote:That's a great point. The green advocates purely assume they can just stroll right up and take a whack at both HQ.

I said in my example for placing the burna templates that the two HQ are not joined together but in fact I still let the burna boyz target two separate units. I was letting the orks cheat for an advantage just to better illustrate my point. The fact is orks are just not that great in close combat, excluding nobz, warbosses and some of the special characters.

G

Uh if by that you mean GROTS arnt good in CC then yea Ill agree with you. Regular boyz are ass kickers in CC. I steam roll rhinos and tactical squads with boyz. Even if they get assaulted, theres always enough to get stuck in for a few rounds. I think your under estimating the potential of Orks greatly


To offer to the OP, I wouldnt rely on hordes of boyz personally (even tho I love them) simply because the HQs mentioned have really good saves. Youd pretty much be wasting that squad on the ICs mentioned. I agree mega nobs thraka,lootas. I dont use lootas, so Id have to get them with the thraka/,mega nobs approach.