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I just noticed that Wayland Games are advertising themselves as Battlefoams UK distributors.

That should solve any issues with US-UK [or indeed European] delivery charges!

Seems like a good selection of stock too.

This was announced by Sgt Diablo a while back...one of many new deals struck by Battle Foam at the beginning of this year...Flames of War and Privateer Press exclusive bags to mention a few more...not to mention their new mascot the General!

Ye gods, it'd be cheaper to just pay to ship it from the US. Wayland are charging over 30% more for it than Battlefoam are (before either of them adds shipping).

I guess you'd risk being stung for VAT and customs charges if you imported it yourself, but customs don't always spot that stuff.

Guys we have alot of stock and more on the way of the custom stuff.

Ian, duty is 6.5% and VAT 17.5% on the stuff.. which anything large will pretty much get caught for or your local VAT duty and fees.

And 30% is a massive exageration. Most of the increases are about 15% with a few of the bulkier items a tiny bit more.

30%, a massive exaggeration? I did only check a couple of prices at random before, so let's look at half a dozen or so, also at random:

PACK 1520 empty -- $150 from BF, £122 (=$195) from Wayland. That's 30% more expensive.

PACK 432 Pluck Foam Loadout -- $110 from BF, £85 (=$136) from Wayland. 23% more expensive.

2 Land Raider 1 Drop Pod 4 Rhino foam tray -- $24 from BF, £20 (=$32) from Wayland. 33% more expensive.

1" Pluck foam tray -- $17 from BF, £13 (=$20.78) from Wayland. 22% more expensive.

Marine Troop Tray -- $19 from BF, £15 (=$24) from Wayland. 26% more expensive.

(All currency conversions done at xe.com)

Rich, it's very cool that you guys are importing BF stuff... but it is still really expensive (usually nearer 30% more, than 15%). I've been after getting hold of some BF kit for ages, but I am most likely to just get some sent to a friend in the USA, and pick some up next time I'm over, realistically. Sorry.

Ian,

A large case is not cheap to ship across the atlantic no matter how much we would like to teleport them.


As mentioned before we also have to pay VAT and duty on them approx 24% total. If you personally import one you will be very lucky to avoid those 24% of charges.


We also have to make sure there is margin for retailers to sell the product at a profit.

So we are transporting it a quarter of the way round the world making sure all taxes are paid and the only difference in price is approximately the tax. I happen to think thats pretty good value.

rich1231 wrote:And 30% is a massive exageration. Most of the increases are about 15% with a few of the bulkier items a tiny bit more.

Ian Sturrock wrote:30%, a massive exaggeration? I did only check a couple of prices at random before, so let's look at half a dozen or so, also at random:

PACK 1520 empty -- $150 from BF, £122 (=$195) from Wayland. That's 30% more expensive.

PACK 432 Pluck Foam Loadout -- $110 from BF, £85 (=$136) from Wayland. 23% more expensive.

2 Land Raider 1 Drop Pod 4 Rhino foam tray -- $24 from BF, £20 (=$32) from Wayland. 33% more expensive.

1" Pluck foam tray -- $17 from BF, £13 (=$20.78) from Wayland. 22% more expensive.

Marine Troop Tray -- $19 from BF, £15 (=$24) from Wayland. 26% more expensive.

(All currency conversions done at xe.com)

Rich, it's very cool that you guys are importing BF stuff... but it is still really expensive (usually nearer 30% more, than 15%). I've been after getting hold of some BF kit for ages, but I am most likely to just get some sent to a friend in the USA, and pick some up next time I'm over, realistically. Sorry.

Ha ha!!! Way to bust iz chops!!! I personally think 33% is more than just a "little more" than the 15%!!!
I think if i lived across the pond, I''d take my chances trying to dodge the "VAT"..... that is unless retailer wants to be a (o) *translation: donkey cave* and fill out a detailed packing declaration.

gregor_xenos wrote:I think if i lived across the pond, I''d take my chances trying to dodge the "VAT"..... that is unless retailer wants to be a (o) *translation: donkey cave* and fill out a detailed packing declaration.

Yes, it's always such a pain when people want to obey the law.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

gregor_xenos wrote:I think if i lived across the pond, I''d take my chances trying to dodge the "VAT"..... that is unless retailer wants to be a (o) *translation: donkey cave* and fill out a detailed packing declaration.

Yes, it's always such a pain when people want to obey the law.

Preach on it brother!!! (o)
*Sarcasm off*
Broken Laws to fund broken systems; Im an American, and I am familiar with this concept.

yeah the tax and such makes things killer =/ ouch.

Just one of the many downsides of living in the UK, unfortunately.

gregor_xenos wrote:

rich1231 wrote:And 30% is a massive exageration. Most of the increases are about 15% with a few of the bulkier items a tiny bit more.

Ian Sturrock wrote:30%, a massive exaggeration? I did only check a couple of prices at random before, so let's look at half a dozen or so, also at random:

PACK 1520 empty -- $150 from BF, £122 (=$195) from Wayland. That's 30% more expensive.

PACK 432 Pluck Foam Loadout -- $110 from BF, £85 (=$136) from Wayland. 23% more expensive.

2 Land Raider 1 Drop Pod 4 Rhino foam tray -- $24 from BF, £20 (=$32) from Wayland. 33% more expensive.

1" Pluck foam tray -- $17 from BF, £13 (=$20.78) from Wayland. 22% more expensive.

Marine Troop Tray -- $19 from BF, £15 (=$24) from Wayland. 26% more expensive.

(All currency conversions done at xe.com)

Rich, it's very cool that you guys are importing BF stuff... but it is still really expensive (usually nearer 30% more, than 15%). I've been after getting hold of some BF kit for ages, but I am most likely to just get some sent to a friend in the USA, and pick some up next time I'm over, realistically. Sorry.

Ha ha!!! Way to bust iz chops!!! I personally think 33% is more than just a "little more" than the 15%!!!
I think if i lived across the pond, I''d take my chances trying to dodge the "VAT"..... that is unless retailer wants to be a (o) *translation: donkey cave* and fill out a detailed packing declaration.

What an unpleasant individual.

As I said buliker items represent a far greater proportion of shipping costs.. though foam and cases are light.. they have a very high volume for that weight. Shipping represents between 5 and as much as 15% of the items cost for the bigger items. When the duty and VAT is added you will see that in fact we absorb some of those charges ourselves.

And you cannot ignore the taxes, no matter how much you mant to pretend they dont exist.

Large items dont get through customs unscathed. You will hear that some people do get through.

You can moan and whinge all you like, but the facts are as I keep stating. Things cost money to ship and the world has taxes.

Well, I don't think it's that great value. As a distributor, you should be getting it at at least 55% off the retail cost anyway. Sure, you then need to pay VAT and import duty on that 45% of RRP... and of course you need to charge VAT on the total amount you charge us -- but I don't really see that said total amount needs to be higher than 17.5% higher.

It's not *horrendously* bad value either, mind. Just not great.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to licence the BF designs, and find a UK-based manufacturer? Avoids import duty, vastly reduces shipping costs...

Ian.. shipping duty and VAT are over 30%. Remember we the key here is us getting this into stores. As soon as anyone sees the bags and foam they get converted.

Re manufacture under licence.... .. its a new product for Europe.. with an unknown market. That we need to develop further before looking at options to deliver it cheaper.

Of course we would love it to be lower in price, but without trying to preach, it really is a premium product. The cases and foam really are of great quality and a league ahead of competing products. Battlefoam really have moved the game on.

You could just buy KR multifoam's stuff, which wayland also sell. I got a small but tough card case with 1 troop tray and a couple of p&p trays for tall vehicles for £22 posted.

If anyone's wondering, I bought the small one so it wouldn't be a wasted investment if I found I didn't like going to a wargames club but I enjoyed myself immensely and will be needing a much bigger one very soon so I wouldn't recommend the small case unless you're playing 1000pts or just skirmish games.

Edit: It's multicase not multifoam, http://www.krmulticase.co.uk/

Hi Guys,

I have to jump in and help Richard out on this one. As you know for months people have asked us to get a local retailer or wholesaler over in the UK. We worked very hard with Richard and his team at Wayland Games to make this possible.

As you all may know our bags are huge. We make large products to help people move their minis. Those large items like the 1520, 432, and the new Privateer Press bags cost a fortune to ship anywhere. US rates are high for shipping already but when you go over the water things get even worse.

I know some of you have said that tax and duties can be avoided by having the shipper not list the items. That's called mail fraud and our company would be fined thousands of dollars if we tried to do that. Anyone that orders from us would need to follow all laws governing their state and country. If your country charges these crazy fees, the problem is not Wayland Games, or Battle Foam, its your countries shipping policies.

Please understand that it takes thousands of dollars to put a partnership like this together. Richard and Wayland Games needed to invest completely in our product just to satisfy the needs of UK customers. That is no easy task when your dealing with hundreds of products like we offer.

To move onto the license part of the topic. The process that we use for making Battle Foam and the bags is extremely time consuming and difficult. I'm not just feeding everyone a line its just those are the facts. To license a process like ours would take upwards of $250,000.00 just to get the equipment in place. Man power, raw material, training, and all the other parts of running a business would need to be set up also to ensure proper products got made.

Those are no easy tasks for anyone trying to expand their business. My suggestion to everyone is to look at the B.S. that Richard is incurring just to bring a product to your front door. He's doing a supper job of keeping things in stock and will always have the latest items when they release.

Stay positive guys and remember. Unlike another company over in the UK, we are not out to screw anyone. We don't raise prices for no reason and we listen to the community when it counts. That should be worth something on its own.

Have a nice weekend fellas.

Romeo
Battle Foam
Protecting Your Army

Romeo, Richard.

This is the kind of support that we gamers need to contribute back on. Can't say I'm in the market at the moment but I shall be contacting Wayland for my bag order as soon as I am able to.

gregor_xenos wrote:

rich1231 wrote:And 30% is a massive exageration. Most of the increases are about 15% with a few of the bulkier items a tiny bit more.

Ian Sturrock wrote:30%, a massive exaggeration? I did only check a couple of prices at random before, so let's look at half a dozen or so, also at random:

PACK 1520 empty -- $150 from BF, £122 (=$195) from Wayland. That's 30% more expensive.

PACK 432 Pluck Foam Loadout -- $110 from BF, £85 (=$136) from Wayland. 23% more expensive.

2 Land Raider 1 Drop Pod 4 Rhino foam tray -- $24 from BF, £20 (=$32) from Wayland. 33% more expensive.

1" Pluck foam tray -- $17 from BF, £13 (=$20.78) from Wayland. 22% more expensive.

Marine Troop Tray -- $19 from BF, £15 (=$24) from Wayland. 26% more expensive.

(All currency conversions done at xe.com)

Rich, it's very cool that you guys are importing BF stuff... but it is still really expensive (usually nearer 30% more, than 15%). I've been after getting hold of some BF kit for ages, but I am most likely to just get some sent to a friend in the USA, and pick some up next time I'm over, realistically. Sorry.

Ha ha!!! Way to bust iz chops!!! I personally think 33% is more than just a "little more" than the 15%!!!
I think if i lived across the pond, I''d take my chances trying to dodge the "VAT"..... that is unless retailer wants to be a (o) *translation: donkey cave* and fill out a detailed packing declaration.

you realize that the retailer kind of has to right? that's kind of a big deal that can get a retailer into big trouble. you realize that right? no, of course you don't.

Howlingmoon wrote:

gregor_xenos wrote:

rich1231 wrote:And 30% is a massive exageration. Most of the increases are about 15% with a few of the bulkier items a tiny bit more.

Ian Sturrock wrote:30%, a massive exaggeration? I did only check a couple of prices at random before, so let's look at half a dozen or so, also at random:

PACK 1520 empty -- $150 from BF, £122 (=$195) from Wayland. That's 30% more expensive.

PACK 432 Pluck Foam Loadout -- $110 from BF, £85 (=$136) from Wayland. 23% more expensive.

2 Land Raider 1 Drop Pod 4 Rhino foam tray -- $24 from BF, £20 (=$32) from Wayland. 33% more expensive.

1" Pluck foam tray -- $17 from BF, £13 (=$20.78) from Wayland. 22% more expensive.

Marine Troop Tray -- $19 from BF, £15 (=$24) from Wayland. 26% more expensive.

(All currency conversions done at xe.com)

Rich, it's very cool that you guys are importing BF stuff... but it is still really expensive (usually nearer 30% more, than 15%). I've been after getting hold of some BF kit for ages, but I am most likely to just get some sent to a friend in the USA, and pick some up next time I'm over, realistically. Sorry.

Ha ha!!! Way to bust iz chops!!! I personally think 33% is more than just a "little more" than the 15%!!!
I think if i lived across the pond, I''d take my chances trying to dodge the "VAT"..... that is unless retailer wants to be a (o) *translation: donkey cave* and fill out a detailed packing declaration.

you realize that the retailer kind of has to right? that's kind of a big deal that can get a retailer into big trouble. you realize that right? no, of course you don't.

No, Actually I didnt.... Thought it worked more like a "personal" shipment with something of this nature. Wherin, you can declare worth, gift etc. It is common practice (at my job) to send things and declare the value $1 and call it samples or such, to really save alot. (granted its a lie, and theyll eventulally get caught I suppose)

A false claim on a CN22/23 form in many countries is a criminal matter. And many countries just seize goods if a claim is obviously false.

Its not worth the risk for any professional entity.

I don't think anyone suggested filing false claims on forms -- just recognised the reality that private imports are something of a crapshoot, in that sometimes you get stung for taxes & duties, sometimes you don't.

That's life I suppose. Trying to get something for nothing is cool I suppose...... Till ya get caught. lol

*Spose Im done with this thread too.*

gregor_xenos wrote:
No, Actually I didnt.... Thought it worked more like a "personal" shipment with something of this nature. Wherin, you can declare worth, gift etc. It is common practice (at my job) to send things and declare the value $1 and call it samples or such, to really save alot. (granted its a lie, and theyll eventulally get caught I suppose)

That's fine right up until the point where the Customs and Excise officials notice that you seem to be sending lots of 'gift's to lots of different people all over the country. They arent stupid; it's part of their job to sniff this kind of thing out. And of course, it's a massive no-no for any legitimate business.

I read the thread a bit in a hurry, but you cannot expect these large items not to be taxed or noticed in customs... Sure its 30% more? ( was the shipping and possible customs cuts if you buy US to Europe considered in this thread price comparison?)

But I for one will use this service waylands provides... because I know it will get here... and I will not have any bad surprises from customs ( Remember its not only extra money taxed but also a HUGE delay to get your goods)

I have a doubt Romeo and Wayland folks... If I want customized trays with text and strange shapped cuts on foams how do I do this with waylands?

Cheers and keep up the outstanding services guys.

Eh don't like the price don't buy, they'll eventually have to make their prices more competitive through direct discounts once the manufacture can afford them.

There isn't a whole lot that they can do about VAT or shipping costs though, foam is bulky and on international shipping volume will kill you faster than weight. Though Canadian customers should be able to avoid customs fee's by using the good ole NAFTA loopholes, though I think you still end up paying GST in Ont.

The way UK Customs works, an imported parcel worth less than £18 is not liable to import duty and VAT. If it is above that value, you may get away with it, especially if the parcel is small, as it may get lost in the mass of small parcels.

If your parcel is noticed by the Customs people they will assess duties on the stated value. The Post Office or other shipping agent will pay the duty and add £8 fees. They invoice you and you won't get the item delivered until you pay.

Personal gift items up to £40 can be imported duty free, except for excise duties.

Read the full explanation here.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageTravel_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000014&propertyType=document#P22_2520

Aye, although oddly, you can legally avoid the £8 admin fee from PO/ParcelForce, if you can be bothered (Google will tell you how).

Agamemnon2 wrote:

gregor_xenos wrote:I think if i lived across the pond, I''d take my chances trying to dodge the "VAT"..... that is unless retailer wants to be a (o) *translation: donkey cave* and fill out a detailed packing declaration.

Yes, it's always such a pain when people want to obey the law.

x2

seems you are the (0) not the retailer. Sheesh - some people need to grow up just a tad.

Ian Sturrock wrote:Aye, although oddly, you can legally avoid the £8 admin fee from PO/ParcelForce, if you can be bothered (Google will tell you how).

News to me, I'm guessing it's a lot of hard work though, lol.
The handling fee is the galling thing about importing stuff, really annoys me no end.

I was expecting hard work, but I ended up phoning ParcelForce, telling them that I was willing to pay the customs fee there & then over the phone by credit card, but that I didn't authorise them to charge me the admin fee, and that they could attempt to invoice me for it separately if they felt they had any grounds to do so...

They didn't. Thing is, there's no contract between you & ParcelForce (et al), because the sender made the contract with them, not you. And, legally, they're not allowed to delay a package for you once you've paid the customs fees -- they have to release it. It's just that usually they pretend you have to pay both fees at once.