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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/14 23:09:59
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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Black Helicopters Over Nashville http://www.newsweek.com/id/233331/page/1 Never mind Sarah Palin and the tricornered hats. The tea-party movement is dominated by conspiracist kooks. The tea-party movement has no leader. But it does have a face: William Temple of Brunswick, Ga. For months, the amiable middle-aged activist has been criss-crossing America, appearing at tea-party events dressed in his trademark three-cornered hat and Revolutionary garb. When journalists interview him (which is often—his outfit draws them in like a magnet), he presents himself as a human bridge between the founders' era and our own. "We fought the British over a 3 percent tea tax. We might as well bring the British back," he told NPR during a recent protest outside the Capitol. It's a charming act, which makes the tea-party movement seem no more unnerving than the people who spend their weekends reenacting the Civil War. But the 18th-century getups mask something disturbing. After I spent the weekend at the Tea Party National Convention in Nashville, Tenn., it has become clear to me that the movement is dominated by people whose vision of the government is conspiratorial and dangerously detached from reality. It's more John Birch than John Adams. Like all populists, tea partiers are suspicious of power and influence, and anyone who wields them. Their villain list includes the big banks; bailed-out corporations; James Cameron, whose Avatar is seen as a veiled denunciation of the U.S. military; Republican Party institutional figures they feel ignored by, such as chairman Michael Steele; colleges and universities (the more prestigious, the more evil); TheWashington Post; Anderson Cooper; and even FOX News pundits, such as Bill O'Reilly, who have heaped scorn on the tea-party movement's more militant oddballs. One of the most bizarre moments of the recent tea-party convention came when blogger Andrew Breitbart delivered a particularly vicious fulmination against the mainstream media, prompting everyone to get up, turn toward the media section at the back of the conference room, and scream, "USA! USA! USA!" But the tea partiers' well-documented obsession with President Obama has hardly been diffused by their knack for finding new enemies. Steve Malloy, author of Green Hell: How Environmentalists Plan to Ruin Your Life, kicked off the first full day of conference proceedings by warning that Obama and his minions are conspiring to control every aspect of Americans' lives—the colors of their cars, the kind of toilet paper they use, how much time they spend in the shower, the temperature of their homes—all under the guise of U.N. greenhouse-gas-reduction schemes. "Obama isn't a U.S. socialist," Malloy thundered. "He's an international socialist. He envisions a one-world government." I consider myself a conservative and arrived at this conference as a paid-up, rank-and-file attendee, not one of the bemused New York Times types with a media pass. But I also happen to be writing a book for HarperCollins that focuses on 9/11 conspiracy theories, so I have a pretty good idea where the various screws and nuts can be found in the great toolbox of American political life. Within a few hours in Nashville, I could tell that what I was hearing wasn't just random rhetorical mortar fire being launched at Obama and his political allies: the salvos followed the established script of New World Order conspiracy theories, which have suffused the dubious right-wing fringes of American politics since the days of the John Birch Society. This world view's modern-day prophets include Texas radio host Alex Jones, whose documentary, The Obama Deception, claims Obama's candidacy was a plot by the leaders of the New World Order to "con the Amercican people into accepting global slavery"; Christian evangelist Pat Robertson; and the rightward strain of the aforementioned "9/11 Truth" movement. According to this dark vision, America's 21st-century traumas signal the coming of a great political cataclysm, in which a false prophet such as Barack Obama will upend American sovereignty and render the country into a godless, one-world socialist dictatorship run by the United Nations from its offices in Manhattan. Sure enough, in Nashville, Judge Roy Moore warned, among other things, of "a U.N. guard stationed in every house." On the conference floor, it was taken for granted that Obama was seeking to destroy America's place in the world and sell Israel out to the Arabs for some undefined nefarious purpose. The names Jeremiah Wright and William Ayers popped up all the time, the idea being that they were the real brains behind this presidency, and Obama himself was simply some sort of manchurian candidate. A software engineer from Clearwater, Fla., told me that Washington, D.C., liberals had engineered the financial crash so they could destroy the value of the U.S. dollar, pay off America's debts with worthless paper, and then create a new currency called the Amero that would be used in a newly created "North American Currency Union" with Canada and Mexico. I rolled my eyes at this one-off kook. But then, hours later, the conference organizers showed a movie to the meeting hall, Generation Zero, whose thesis was only slightly less bizarre: that the financial meltdown was the handiwork of superannuated flower children seeking to destroy capitalism. And then, of course, there is the double-whopper of all anti-Obama conspiracy theories, the "birther" claim that America's president might actually be an illegal alien who's constitutionally ineligible to occupy the White House. This point was made by birther extraordinaire and Christian warrior Joseph Farah, who told the crowd the circumstances of Obama's birth were more mysterious than those of Jesus Christ. (Apparently comparing Obama to a messiah is only blasphemous if you're doing so in a complimentary vein.) To applause, he declared, "My dream is that if Barack Obama seeks reelection in 2012 that he won't be able to go to any city, any city, any town in America without seeing signs that ask, 'Where's the birth certificate?'" Many of the tea-party organizers I spoke with at this conference described the event as a critical step in their ascendancy to the status of mainstream political movement. Yet with rare exceptions, such as blogger Breitbart, who was reportedly overheard protesting Farah's birther propaganda, none of them seems to realize how off-putting the toxic fantasies being spewed from the podium were. Perhaps the most distressing part of all is that few media observers bothered to catalog these bizarre, conspiracist outbursts, and instead fixated on Sarah Palin's Saturday night keynote address. It is as if, in the current overheated political atmosphere, we all simply have come to expect that radicalized conservatives will behave like unhinged paranoiacs when they collect in the same room. That doesn't say much for the state of the right in America. The tea partiers' tricornered hat is supposed to be a symbol of patriotism and constitutional first principles. But when you take a closer look, all you find is a helmet made of tin foil. Jonathan Kay is the managing editor for comment at Canada's National Post newspaper. His book, Among the Truthers: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and the People Who Believe Them, will be published by HarperCollins in 2011. Contact him at jkay@nationalpost.com. © 2010 I found it all to be quite interesting. Semi lengthy read, but telling.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/14 23:10:40
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Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/14 23:17:59
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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This will certainly be a fun thread.
I think its important to note that people who actively protest tend to have extreme, or conspiratorial views. I say this as a veteran of the many liberal protests I attended out of academic curiosity.
As ever, there must be a disclaimer indicating that the characters of a movement are, by necessity, caricatures of that movement. And all protesters are, fundamentally, characters, or at least a single character en masse. Its a natural consequence of a narrow message.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/14 23:21:01
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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dogma wrote:This will certainly be a fun thread. I think its important to note that people who actively protest tend to have extreme, or conspiratorial views. I say this as a veteran of the many liberal protests I attended out of academic curiosity. As ever, there must be a disclaimer indicating that the characters of a movement are, by necessity, caricatures of that movement. And all protesters are, fundamentally, characters, or at least a single character en masse. Its a natural consequence of a narrow message. Is the tea party composed of anything other than the protests though? Didn't the protests both spawn it and now currently maintain it? That said, we had anti Iraq protests in my hometown every summer for since the war began (they're still at it, and it's a liberal college town with a naval air station attached) and they were hardly sensible.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/02/14 23:22:16
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Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/14 23:22:32
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Don't you go dissing the tin foil helmets, Shuma.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/14 23:26:13
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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ShumaGorath wrote:
Is the tea party composed of anything other than the protests though? Didn't the protests both spawn it and now currently maintain it?
This I don't know. I've been trying to draw a line between the Tea Party, and Tea Party sympathizers (ie. people who support some of their abstract goals), but its been difficult to say the least. I do think that its a bit to easy to label any group of people as fundamentally insane. It makes it to easy to miss out on what may be a legitimate critique of the system.
For my part, I agree with some of the principles outlined by the Tea Party, though not necessarily in ordinary ways (shocking!). For example, I'd like to return to the vision of the Founders by eliminating the popular election of Senators.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/14 23:27:02
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Ah, harkening back to the good old days when the Europeans were kicked out of the Americas by its native sons, the United States of Awesome were founded, and you could buy people like Obama for cents on the dollar!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/14 23:28:10
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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What's really funny about all this is that the Founding Fathers essentially amounted to a conspiratorial organization.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 01:08:24
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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Nurglitch wrote:Ah, harkening back to the good old days when the Europeans were kicked out of the Americas by its native sons, the United States of Awesome were founded, and you could buy people like Obama for cents on the dollar!
Wanting to regress to earlier elements does not entail wanting to regress to all elements of an earlier time. I wouldn't get your nose to far up, your ancestors were the ones selling them to the US.
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Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 02:15:07
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Fixture of Dakka
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Change.
G
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 02:38:56
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Ahtman wrote:Nurglitch wrote:Ah, harkening back to the good old days when the Europeans were kicked out of the Americas by its native sons, the United States of Awesome were founded, and you could buy people like Obama for cents on the dollar!
Wanting to regress to earlier elements does not entail wanting to regress to all elements of an earlier time. I wouldn't get your nose to far up, your ancestors were the ones selling them to the US.
I'm European? Score. I will now brag of my honourary honkiness.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 03:01:09
Subject: Re:The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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Godless socialist one-world government? There are too many bible-thumpers and greedy corporations to let that be a reality. We're too busy circling the drain to get a one-world government together.
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WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 03:20:36
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Combat Jumping Rasyat
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The new world order is pretty flaky from what I seen. It's powerful enough to elect a "non-American" citizen as president of the US, but not quite powerful enough to push socialist bills through Congress. One of my lab partner is one of these people and he is exactly like how the article describes. In his words: "Liberals want "green" power because they don't want people making money. It's not that they want to make money off "green" energy, Democrats don't care about money, they just want power. That's why they hate capitalism, which is what made America the most technologically advanced country in the world. Because money is a form of power, once they take away people's money they can control all the power."
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/15 03:23:11
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 03:25:17
Subject: Re:The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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There seems to be two elements to the tea party movement. The first is the kooks, arguing for the gold standard or an end to the one world government and all that. The second element appears to be standard conservatives arguing for fiscal responsibility.
The movement appears to have started as a way for standard conservatives to express their disapproval of the Republican Party in the wake of the Bush administration. As all new movements will tend to do, they quickly picked up all manner of nutters. Arguably they could do something about excising the crazies, but leftwing movements have exactly the same problem so it'd be unfair to criticize the tea partiers for the same.
The bigger issue, to me, is whether the sane elements of the movement will end up having a lasting effect on the GOP, and actually introduce a commitment to fiscal responsibility. I doubt it personally as the issues being raised over government are as superficial as they are when the GOP mainstream raises them, and don't address any of the real, systemic causes of long government overspending.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/15 03:26:28
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 04:30:03
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Executing Exarch
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dogma wrote:This I don't know. I've been trying to draw a line between the Tea Party, and Tea Party sympathizers (ie. people who support some of their abstract goals), but its been difficult to say the least. I do think that its a bit to easy to label any group of people as fundamentally insane. It makes it to easy to miss out on what may be a legitimate critique of the system.
You can't throw the whole movement under the bus because of the fact that you see the crazies on television. Of course the media is going to find and present the most absolutely nuts people it can, that is what makes the story interesting. If you honestly believe that they are going to put just normal people who are frustrated and concerned with the path of this nation, then you are sorely mistaken. I support several ideas endorsed by the tea party movement, and have even attended a few rallies as a correspondent. That being said, I normally found other citizens who were there on their own breaks, or days off, to try and make their voices heard.
dogma wrote:For my part, I agree with some of the principles outlined by the Tea Party, though not necessarily in ordinary ways (shocking!). For example, I'd like to return to the vision of the Founders by eliminating the popular election of Senators.
Hear, hear!
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DR:80+S(GT)G++M++B-I++Pwmhd05#+D+++A+++/sWD-R++T(Ot)DM+
How is it they live in such harmony - the billions of stars - when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.
- St. Thomas Aquinas
Warhammer 40K:
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
"The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer shields or sparkle lasers."
-Illeix |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 04:40:03
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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JEB_Stuart wrote:You can't throw the whole movement under the bus because of the fact that you see the crazies on television. Of course the media is going to find and present the most absolutely nuts people it can, that is what makes the story interesting. If you honestly believe that they are going to put just normal people who are frustrated and concerned with the path of this nation, then you are sorely mistaken. I support several ideas endorsed by the tea party movement, and have even attended a few rallies as a correspondent. That being said, I normally found other citizens who were there on their own breaks, or days off, to try and make their voices heard.
Did you not read my first post? Because I addressed most of your criticism there.
Though I will say that my experience with the Tea Party is likely tainted by my long hair, and expensive fashion sense.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 04:41:58
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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For my part, I agree with some of the principles outlined by the Tea Party, though not necessarily in ordinary ways (shocking!). For example, I'd like to return to the vision of the Founders by eliminating the popular election of Senators.
Isn't that directly contrasted against the stated ideals of populist governance and direct public accountability?
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Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 04:44:31
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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Nurglitch wrote:Ahtman wrote:Nurglitch wrote:Ah, harkening back to the good old days when the Europeans were kicked out of the Americas by its native sons, the United States of Awesome were founded, and you could buy people like Obama for cents on the dollar!
Wanting to regress to earlier elements does not entail wanting to regress to all elements of an earlier time. I wouldn't get your nose to far up, your ancestors were the ones selling them to the US.
I'm European? Score. I will now brag of my honourary honkiness.
Well, it seemed only fair if you were going to make idiotic generalizations and assumptions that you shouldn't be the only one allowed to. Even ignoring that Whites make up roughly 80~87% of the population in Canada so I still have a 8 in 10 or almost a 9 in 10 chance of being right. While not European strictly, odds say that you have roots in Europe.
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Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 04:46:30
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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ShumaGorath wrote:
Isn't that directly contrasted against the stated ideals of populist governance and direct public accountability?
Yes, but I imagine that the majority of people actively involved in the Tea Party don't have even a nominal grasp of political history.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 04:48:25
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Executing Exarch
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@Dogma: Sorry, drinking and typing doesn't always work well  I meant to be in agreement with you, I was more referring to Shuma's posts. Automatically Appended Next Post: dogma wrote:Yes, but I imagine that the majority of people don't have even a nominal grasp of political history.
Fixed for greater accuracy.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/15 04:48:57
DR:80+S(GT)G++M++B-I++Pwmhd05#+D+++A+++/sWD-R++T(Ot)DM+
How is it they live in such harmony - the billions of stars - when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.
- St. Thomas Aquinas
Warhammer 40K:
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
"The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer shields or sparkle lasers."
-Illeix |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 04:50:39
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Very good then, also agreed on your edit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 04:53:47
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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I meant to be in agreement with you, I was more referring to Shuma's posts. Well, when a populist movement (I dislike populism) forms large incoherent protests, (I generally dislike protest movements for the exact reasons you have described) while getting a considerable amount of play on fox news (A news station i dislike for being substance-less and irrational) and then grows rapidly due to the conservative groundswell derived from that coverage using them as a focal point (I'm not a conservative) I'll get that bus gassed up. There's nothing connected to the tea party movement that I'm not willing to throw under the bus.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/02/15 04:54:56
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Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 09:26:18
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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avantgarde wrote:
"Liberals want "green" power because they don't want people making money. It's not that they want to make money off "green" energy, Democrats don't care about money, they just want power. That's why they hate capitalism, which is what made America the most technologically advanced country in the world. Because money is a form of power, once they take away people's money they can control all the power."
Oh FFS can we keep nothing secret anymore people ?!
... errr... you might need a new lab partner.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 10:20:40
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Actually it was government spending during the Civil War, 1st and 2nd World Wars and the cold war that underpinned a lot of America's industrial expansion and technology development.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 14:17:45
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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I like how a group of people who would never darken the doors of Republican meeting, much less a Tea Party protest, are discussing the merits of the Tea Party, based on an article from the rag Newsweek.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 14:29:52
Subject: Re:The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Good taste FTW.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 17:18:58
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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Frazzled wrote:I like how a group of people who would never darken the doors of Republican meeting, much less a Tea Party protest, are discussing the merits of the Tea Party, based on an article from the rag Newsweek. I have a fair number of conservative friends, and I've had them for quite some time. Living next to (what used to be, Bush shut it down) the largest naval air station in the northeast for 19 years does that to you. I've never been to a liberal meeting either. I didn't know they had those.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/15 17:19:16
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Do you remember that time that thing happened?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 18:30:43
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Frazzled wrote:I like how a group of people who would never darken the doors of Republican meeting, much less a Tea Party protest, are discussing the merits of the Tea Party, based on an article from the rag Newsweek.
I was a member of the Young Republicans in college. Yeah. Think about that for a few minutes.
I've also been to a couple Tea Party meetings.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 18:32:45
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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dogma wrote:I was a member of the Young Republicans in college. Yeah. Think about that for a few minutes.
Do I have to?
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Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 18:36:39
Subject: The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Yes.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/02/15 19:01:10
Subject: Re:The TeaParty movement dissected (newsweek article)
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Did you have to provide your own suit or did they provide the uniform for you ?
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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