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sebster wrote:
I think people can approach use very different approaches to different parts of their lives. I know a medical researcher who (as near as I can tell anyway, I have to admit most of his stuff goes way over my head) is extremely good at what he does. He's also a 9/11 truther. If you switch from one topic to the other the difference in approach is incredible, completely different mindset, he goes from giving balanced, considered arguments to wild speculation, there's even a change in his tone of voice.

The first is the result of having a mindset beaten in to him by his profession. You simply learn to give balanced, considered analysis or you get drummed out of the field. The latter has no consequences for poor methodology, and as consequence he has no discipline.

I have no problem believing Fraz could be a decent lawyer, despite his methods of arguing on-line.

There is truth in what you say. As evidenced by my forays into physics, and chemistry.

A Fox News poll on the Tea Party movement

The issue with the Tea Party currently is that its still forming, still nascent. Its a clarion call for all non left disaffected groups. Whether this forms into a coherent new party, collapses ala the Perot Party, or is pre-empted by the Republicans, remains to be seen. Much of their agenda (cut spending, cut taxes, represent middle America) is actually Libertarian and anti elite Republican.

But the Republicans, and Democrats need to remember, this is how both of their parties formed. The Republicans were nutbag fringers when they formed, shortly after to gain power and that resulting Civil War nastiness. On the positive they freed the slaves so achieved their primary goal.

But for the sake of that movement, don't let Palin co-opt it.

ahhh thank you shuma as I had been wondering what all that was about. Seems to me that this "Tea Party" is a right wing anti-gov't group. Now they may claim love in the form of gov't just not the current one, and it is as an American their inalieable right if the gov't is deemed to outlive its usefullness for the people to overthrow it, but thse people just remind me of some extremist. Seems more like the white supremists have found a new legit outlet to voice themselves without being labeld nut jobs.

thats from the detractors. From the movement itself:
One viewpoint (which screams both Libertarian and Perot):

Tea Party Patriots

Mission Statement and Core Values







Mission Statement

The impetus for the Tea Party movement is excessive government spending and taxation. Our mission is to attract, educate, organize, and mobilize our fellow citizens to secure public policy consistent with our three core values of Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government and Free Markets.




Core Values




• Fiscal Responsibility

• Constitutionally Limited Government

• Free Markets




Fiscal Responsibility: Fiscal Responsibility by government honors and respects the freedom of the individual to spend the money that is the fruit of their own labor. A constitutionally limited government, designed to protect the blessings of liberty, must be fiscally responsible or it must subject it's citizenry to high levels of taxation that unjustly restrict the liberty our Constitution was designed to protect. Such runaway deficit spending as we now see in Washington D.C. compels us to take action as the increasing national debt is a grave threat to our national sovereignty and the personal and economic liberty of future generations.





Constitutionally Limited Government: We, the members of The Tea Party Patriots, are inspired by our founding documents and regard the Constitution of the United States to be the supreme law of the land. We believe that it is possible to know the original intent of the government our founders set forth, and stand in support of that intent. Like the founders, we support states' rights for those powers not expressly stated in the Constitution. As the government is of the people, by the people and for the people, in all other matters we support the personal liberty of the individual, within the rule of law.




Free Markets: A free market is the economic consequence of personal liberty. The founders believed that personal and economic freedom were indivisible, as do we. Our current government's interference distorts the free market and inhibits the pursuit of individual and economic liberty. Therefore, we support a return to the free market principles on which this nation was founded and oppose government intervention into the operations of private business.









Our Philosophy

Tea Party Patriots as an organization believes in the Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government, and Free Markets. Tea Party Patriots, Inc. is a non-partisan grassroots organization of individuals united by our core values derived from the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution of the United States of America and the Bill Of Rights as explained in the Federalist Papers. We recognize and support the strength of grassroots organization powered by activism and civic responsibility at a local level. We hold that the United States is a republic conceived by its architects as a nation whose people were granted "unalienable rights" by our Creator. Chiefly among these are the rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." The Tea Party Patriots stand with our founders, as heirs to the republic, to claim our rights and duties which preserve their legacy and our own. We hold, as did the founders, that there exists an inherent benefit to our country when private property and prosperity are secured by natural law and the rights of the individual.

Though I agree big gov't isn't always the best thing, people forget that without it a lot of our basic ness. wouldn't be there since big gov't supplies funding for it. By what you described they really attribute a lot fo their beliefs to the founding fathers if I am corect in that assumption. If this is the case they need to think because when we free ourselves from england we had no where NEAR the population per capita we have now. Plus that wack jobs statement saying we may as well have england back is so assinine I don't even know what to say. Lets look at their taxes currently vs. ours... hrmmm yep I'll stick with what we have.

Ok, I consider myself pretty moderate in my political views but a political party that has a such an epic fail for a member makes me wonder. I know she is old but come on.




Most likely this picture is going to earn me a warning

How do you know she's a member?

Don't know if she is member and I am not saying that the movement is incorrect. However, have you noticed that people with to much time on their hands end up producing these kinds of signs to show their support. Or, she could have known what the term meant and her grandkids would be shocked and ashamed of grandma back in the day.

LOL, "teabaggers." Eventually they have to turn off the AM hate radio and leave their bomb shelter/basement, eh?

Blinking snd screaming their idiocies into the harsh light of day...

Yes idiocies like limited government and a budget thats balanced.

Considering that under-regulation was at the root of financial crisis, then limited government is idiocy. The problem is that not all regulation is equal, and regulation determined by a political process of compromise will always be compromised. Likewise a balanced budget is pointless unless balancing the budget has a positive effect on both the current economic situation and the future economic climate.

Part of the problem with touting things such as limited government and balanced budgets as good things is that you presume them to be ends in themselves, rather than means to ends that can be either good or bad.

Albatross wrote:'Behooves'.


I like that. What does it mean?

It means you fain look it up in a dictionary.

Don't know Pip.

The liberals have such an epic fail for a member themselves.......

Frazzled wrote:Yes idiocies like limited government and a budget thats balanced.

Yes, and the white supremacists league talks about limited government and fiscal responsibility too. A movement can say all it wants. The reality often times, and especially here, is starkly different.

I find the lack of relevance of this thread to wiener dog races to be absolutely shocking.

My God...it's a different wiener dog race picture. At first I thought it was the same one from the "+1 post" thread, but...it's not.

Frazzled wrote:
Core Values

• Fiscal Responsibility

• Constitutionally Limited Government

• Free Markets

Those are also listed as core values of the Democratic Party. Read more here.

Could it be that political movements are disingenuous, or ignorant?

Frazzled wrote:The issue with the Tea Party currently is that its still forming, still nascent. Its a clarion call for all non left disaffected groups. Whether this forms into a coherent new party, collapses ala the Perot Party, or is pre-empted by the Republicans, remains to be seen. Much of their agenda (cut spending, cut taxes, represent middle America) is actually Libertarian and anti elite Republican.

But we've had the disaffected right wing making noises about forming their own party before. They were very vocal during the Clinton administration, but suddenly got very quiet when Bush took office. Now they're back again.

I'm not saying this isn't different, but that we don't know yet and it will take time to tell.

But for the sake of that movement, don't let Palin co-opt it.

Yes. And let them be just as vocal during a Republican government, and then they might be on their way to being something like a third force.

Have you noticed that nobody ever trumpets values like fiscal profligacy, tyrannical gov't, and rationing?

Seriously, "free market"? How about "wet water" or "hot fire"? Talk about empty jingo-ism.

Yep.

I hear that Democratic Kampuchea valued democracy.

dogma wrote:

Frazzled wrote:I like how a group of people who would never darken the doors of Republican meeting, much less a Tea Party protest, are discussing the merits of the Tea Party, based on an article from the rag Newsweek.

I was a member of the Young Republicans in college. Yeah. Think about that for a few minutes.

I've also been to a couple Tea Party meetings.

hence the name?
Young Republicans are on the same level as homeless philanthropists as far as believability. Young Republicans in my college were jerks. Seriously. That's just the way they were. Funny how you can whine about fiscal responsibility when you live in a friggin dorm, right? I don't think that statement really helps your cause here. Welcome to the tea-party republicans... They hate black people, they hate taxes, and they love anyone who will bring down their unwanted reality.

A tricorn hat? are you serious?
I play in a rock band and I wouldn't even step on stage wearing something so stupid and obvious.

Maybe that's the theme: STUPID AND OBVIOUS (WOOT!)
if its stupid and obvious enough, then some elderly folks who remember the days when they could drink from the 'uncolored' fountain will jump on the brainless bandwagon and all sway stories about how god made white people conquer the indians or whatever. The tea party was really about the pope and king George and some Aliens too right?

Guitardian wrote:hence the name?
Young Republicans are on the same level as homeless philanthropists as far as believability. Young Republicans in my college were jerks. Seriously. That's just the way they were. Funny how you can whine about fiscal responsibility when you live in a friggin dorm, right? I don't think that statement really helps your cause here. Welcome to the tea-party republicans... They hate black people, they hate taxes, and they love anyone who will bring down their unwanted reality.

To be fair, all student politics is ridiculous and full of hate for the evil enemy that only exists in their mind.

I've been to Socialist Youth meetings (hot girls). I've been to Young Liberal meetings (the Liberal are our version of the Republican, it refers to a belief in a liberal economy unhindered by government). I joined because my sister's boyfriend was trying to get a mate put on the party's list of applicants for the State senate and they needed to come from an electorate with a minimum party size, I have no idea who paid my $30 membership fee because I certainly wasn't going to. I went along to some meetings to see if they were as crazy as people said - they are. I also went along to Young Labor meetings, just because of the fun I'd had at the other meetings. I am a member of the Communist Party, a mate and I were arguing over whether there was a Communist Party in Australia so we looked it up on-line and the membership button was right there...

For the record, the Young Liberals had the most poor members, while the Socialists had the most middle and upper class members. They're all completely crazy, although the Socialists are certainly the funniest (unintentionally), the Liberals put on the best food, and Young Labor is the most boring. In time they all grow up, except the Communists, they're adults who are still celebrating the coup in which the Bolsheviks siezed power in Russia as a great moment in the history of the worker's struggle. Those guys are just ridiculous.

Sebster is a Communist.

I knew it.

theyre all ridiculous.

We don't have nearly so many parties over here as you guys do over there. Reductionism is the American Way I guess. Pretty much, it comes down to here: Liberals want health care, republicans want bank bailouts. Libs are generally poor or middle class people who know how to deal with a gak lot in life and expect the govt to jump in, while pubs are eirther over-bibled hicksters or well-to-do white collars who don't want anyones hands on their 'well-earned' money. Pick a side of the fence right? lousy commie or self absorbed hippocrite? Welcome to America.

Orkeosaurus wrote:Sebster is a Communist.

I knew it.

I think we all knew. Can't hold it off anymore I guess. I'll get the pitchforks, you get the torches.

Guitardian wrote:
hence the name?
Young Republicans are on the same level as homeless philanthropists as far as believability. Young Republicans in my college were jerks. Seriously. That's just the way they were. Funny how you can whine about fiscal responsibility when you live in a friggin dorm, right? I don't think that statement really helps your cause here. Welcome to the tea-party republicans... They hate black people, they hate taxes, and they love anyone who will bring down their unwanted reality.

A tricorn hat? are you serious?
I play in a rock band and I wouldn't even step on stage wearing something so stupid and obvious.

Maybe that's the theme: STUPID AND OBVIOUS (WOOT!)
if its stupid and obvious enough, then some elderly folks who remember the days when they could drink from the 'uncolored' fountain will jump on the brainless bandwagon and all sway stories about how god made white people conquer the indians or whatever. The tea party was really about the pope and king George and some Aliens too right?

So...much...irony...

Ahtman wrote:

Orkeosaurus wrote:Sebster is a Communist.

I knew it.

I think we all knew. Can't hold it off anymore I guess. I'll get the pitchforks, you get the torches.

Orkeosaurus wrote:Sebster is a Communist.

I knew it.

..... .............

Sarah Palin sold what? A couple million books? While a couple million is a large-ish number it hardly accounts for the rest of the country's point of view about her. Monica Lewinsky sold a bunch of books too and I don't see anyone giving a crap about her any more since Clinton left office. Sarah Palin has less people caring what she thinks than Harry Potter fans, yet she has the right people in the right places caring, which puts her on the news, which in turn makes people think she's a big deal. The only people I've seen who take her seriously, or the 'teabagger' agenda seriously, are bonafide ignorant hicks. Lets pray they don't get in charge... Oh wait.. that's their department, the whole praying thing. We need it back in public schools or god won't make the nixxers balance the budget for all the moose hunters and their slowed children's nobel prize special olympics under the guise of healthcare, or their accidental daughter-mom underage kid who gets healthcare for her baby because her mom is a rich book 'writer' with people to ghost write for her because she's too busy defending our borders against russia by hunting bears from a helicopter.
God will sort all of that out just so long as the teabaggers get their act together and all pray at the same time... like... at election time.