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Anyone notice some of the similarities?

- Color Scheme
- Raven = Corvidae
- Obsessed with knowledge
- High occurrence of psykers
- Tend to have libbies fall to chaos lol
- Completely unknown Primarch leaves open the posibility

I know it's not anything blatant, but I immediately made the connection. What say ye? Nuts or have a point?

This has been discussed, but I don't think so, to be honest.

I definitely think they're Sons successors. Say what you want about the writing, but the Dawn of War books fully support this theory in my eyes.

They allude to it pretty often. It's one of the things that make the chapter more interesting in my opinion. There's also more stuff in Chaos Rising that alludes to their ties to Chaos, but that's something you'll need to play to find out

As soon as my Starcraft 2 Beta runs out I plan to!

I can't remember the exact reference, but in A Thousand Sons someone has a vision which further supports the idea.

How could they be? AFAIK, they didn't make Succesors of chaos chapters, especially ones that then go to support the Emperor.

Grimm wrote:How could they be? AFAIK, they didn't make Succesors of chaos chapters, especially ones that then go to support the Emperor.

Not every member of a legion had to turn traitor (ala dark angels & Eisenstein incident). Also the thousands sons WERE loyalist until horus tricked russ into trying to kill rather than capture magnus. Seeing no other way to keep himself & his legion alive he reached out to tzeentch to help.

It is possible a force of thousand sons were isolated at that time & were mind cleansed.

What is the Eisenstein incident?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Eisenstein

Magos Explorator wrote:I can't remember the exact reference, but in A Thousand Sons someone has a vision which further supports the idea.

There is a HUGE hint in the Thousand Sons book during the vision. A "Raven of blood", brothers killing brothers, a loss of knowledge.

Also, the book is full of other hints. The raven symbol in the center of the Thousand Sons symbol, some of the Thousand Sons not beong comfortable with the ritual that Magnus uses to get to Horus, and many more.

I think, after this book, that it is pretty clear where the Blood Ravens come from.

It would not be the first time this type of thing has happened in the Heresy books either. Captain Garo was part of the Death Guard, but his little group could be the "fathers" of the Inquisition. That's a pretty BIG responsibility to trust to "traitors".

^That's the vision, yes.

There is also the possibility of taking geneseed from before the HH and using it to make a new chapter as a test, since there were quite a few legions that fell that no known mutations or deformities. Given that at least 2 loyalist legion* geneseeds cannot be used to make new chapters and one is knocked out for more historical reasons, the test could be valid.


*Yes, I know they aren't legions any more, referring to those that were legions pre-HH.

Lexicanum supports this as well with the entry: "The Blood Ravens are decended from the Thousand Sons one clear indication of this is found in Dawn of War Tempest when the sorcerer Ahriman says "Remember this, Rhamah, Son of Ahriman".

Their colors are very similar to pre-heresy 1ksons, they have a bird icon/name(like tzeentch, only not enough by itself to make an assumption), high amount of psykers(with psykers often leading the army, just as with 1ksons), and so many other similarities to 1ksons that it is pretty clear to me that they are meant to be a hidden 1ksons successor chapter.

If the imperium's leaders knew of this it could very well be the reason their records were destroyed("lost").

The image below gives even more credence to the theory with their secondary colors(I believe it is a librarian?) being nearly identical to 1ksons:

all the thousand sons returned to prospero when psykers got banned, bar none. also why would any not get teleported to the new daemon world they live on if they weren't there.
plus blood ravens are a GW paint-scheme and a way to make non-cannon story's for the computer games so who cares.

@Havokas

We Blood Raven players resent you demeening our Chapter as filler-material :(

And yet the Dark Angels creed is "Knowledge is power. Guard it well" (see Dark Angels novel).

What IS possible is that the Blood Ravens are a successor chapter to the Thousand Sons using geneseed from the Thousand Sons legion secretly kept by the imperium.
After all gene samples of all the traitor legions are kept in the vaults of the Imperial Palace.

Plus they have no memory of their primarch, or of their origins.

The only other possibility is they're an offshoot of the Grey Knights experiment.....

Havokas wrote:plus blood ravens are a GW paint-scheme and a way to make non-cannon story's for the computer games so who cares.

Here here, good to see I'm not the only one sick of them. Honestly, they're like a chapter created out of a bad fanfic.

Magos Explorator wrote:I can't remember the exact reference, but in A Thousand Sons someone has a vision which further supports the idea.

Ahh, the 'ravens of blood' vision. I picked up on that one, too.

It's entirely possible it's a reference to the Raven Guard and Blood Angels, of course...

it may be possable and would explain the psyker glut the BRs have.

Now i disagree with the OPs idea of the color scheme idea. How is Scab red and Bleatched bone in ANY way similer to Bright Blue and Yellow?

It would turn the Blood Ravens from being one of my least favorite armys to in the top ten. I am gunna support the 1ksons idea.

Grey Templar wrote:it may be possable and would explain the psyker glut the BRs have.

Now i disagree with the OPs idea of the color scheme idea. How is Scab red and Bleatched bone in ANY way similer to Bright Blue and Yellow?

The Thousand Sons had a different colour palette pre-Heresy.

MajorTom11 wrote:As soon as my Starcraft 2 Beta runs out I plan to!

Starcraft 2 beta doesn't "run out"
I got sc2 beta myself, played for a bit, got pretty far up the gold league, and then got bored. The interface is just so primitive, compared to other modern RTS style games like HoN.
I would recommend playing DoWII, the campaign is pretty awesome and shouldn't take that long.

Edit: Someone beat me to it, nevermind.

WGXH wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:it may be possable and would explain the psyker glut the BRs have.

Now i disagree with the OPs idea of the color scheme idea. How is Scab red and Bleatched bone in ANY way similer to Bright Blue and Yellow?

The Thousand Sons had a different colour palette pre-Heresy.

O I get it, they CHANGED

No, because I refuse to see the Blood Ravens as a canon Chapter, thanks to your's truly, C.S. Goto.

Soladrin wrote:No, because I refuse to see the Blood Ravens as a canon Chapter, thanks to your's truly, C.S. Goto.

Ignore those travesties. Pretty much everybody else does.

I take Blood Raven 'canon', as you will, to be the info taken from the actual games. Dawn of War 2 and it's expansion have quite a lot about it.

Such as Gabriel Angelos not being Chapter master, but instead lead by Kyras, who doubles as chief librarian.

thats just confusing.

who would put a libby in charge!? he could fall to chaos!

Halsfield wrote:The image below gives even more credence to the theory with their secondary colors(I believe it is a librarian?) being nearly identical to 1ksons:

Not really. Chaplans are usually black, right? Tech Marines are usually red, right? Blue like that is usually the colour used for the Librarians. So you'll see stuff like the Salamander's Librarian in the SM codex where he's painted like an Ultramarine, but has some green on him in places to show that he is from the Salamanders Chapter.

Captain Solon wrote:thats just confusing.

who would put a libby in charge!? he could fall to chaos!

If you get the opportunity to, play the campaign for Chaos Rising. Chaos and the Blood Ravens know eachother VERY well.