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ok guys i didnt know where to put this thread so my best guess was here.

quick background. i quit warhammer 2 years ago or more and just sort of came back. i see theres a new IG codex so i was all yay until i look at reviews and information here on dakkadakka and all i can say is: what a load of tosh. all i would have prefered in the new codex is to include details on new models and the new ordering system for officers. but what happens? the platoon and company organisation goes down the drain. I read that in a platoon which can have up to 5 squads, you can also have 4 heavy weopons squads...... wtf i know its not supposed to be realistic with military terms but 50 men, plus 4 heavy weopons squads..... thats not a platoon, thats more like a company. i want IG to be depicted as a tactical unit which works alongside tanks spread out. by the look of the new rules for them it ends up being a horde. just as i read the end of 'gunheads' by steve parker ( i think) commissar yarrik is that the end surrounded by ranks of IG, and he orders them to march along an open plain towards orks, [edit] another stupid thing. i just do not like the new IG codex. i would very happily use the old codex in a battle even if it doesnt to contain the order system. its just more realistic for an army. i am finished.

You don't have to play them as a horde. Veteran Squads allow you to use a lot less guys and more tanks.

but yet they cost alot. i preferred the old codex which worked as a company. you had a CCS and support platoon, then 2 or 3 Infantry platoons along with attached armour. and if you were doing a huge army you can have multiple companies with maybe heavy weopon platoons

Wow.. you contradicted yourself a lot there. first you seem to complain about the fact that it has some more hordy aspects, but in the end you say you love the ranks of IG marching towards Orks...

Also, It's not like codex's have one preset list and thats it you know...

You just seem pissed because its not exactly what you wanted.

The important thing about the new Guard codex is that it's FLEXIBLE. This is achieved with the inclusion of very flexible Veteran squads as Troops. The sort of army you field is all in the way you choose your Troops.

You can field a horde of manpower (which is what 40k Guard are often depicted as) without instantly using up your 6 troops slots, by taking Platoons. A single platoon could be 25 men or 100. Up to you.

Or, taking all Veteran Squads with Forward Sentries gives you an infiltrating Tanith-style light infantry company.

All Veteran Squads with Grenadiers give you a carapace-equipped heavy infantry company.

Or you can take just two Veteran Squads and field an Armoured Company with all the Tank Squadron options, or a scout company with Roughriders and Sentinels, or a psychic circus with PBS and Primaris Psykers as your HQ choices.

It's flexible. You can still field a 3ed list if you want, but now the Troops area includes most of the things you used to have to use Doctrines for.

i never said i loved, or even liked the ranks of IG marching towards Orks, i just mentioned that as another horde idea which i despise. this is the 41st milennium, not a 19th century battlefield.

It used to take 46 models to make a leagal force, now you can do it in 25.
With the Valks you can make a compleatly Air Mobilt Force.
With 2 Veteran Squads in Chimarias along with a Single Comisar you can amke a compleate Armored Fist Company and never have a Guardsman get his boots dirty.
Or you can load up on Infantry including conscrips and have a "Without Numbers Army"
My only complaint is that you cant make a compleat Horse Cav force.

dark6spectre wrote:i never said i loved, or even liked the ranks of IG marching towards Orks, i just mentioned that as another horde idea which i despise. this is the 41st milennium, not a 19th century battlefield.

Erm, I don't know how big on fluff you are, but in the 41st millenium, they are flinging about 100000 times more people at anything that seems hostile than in the 19th century....

The only things more numerous in 40k universe than IG are nids and orks.

i will see if i can get my hands on the copy and rummage through, but i am sure there will be features which i will dislike. what i would atleast prefer is a more detailed list for armies. so that atleast some armies in IG will have better features. such as yes doctrines which i heard have been taken out. doctrines gave more variety. think of it as space marine chapters, just in IG. you have the bog standard IG (i.e ultramarines, imperial fists etc) and then unique IG (Blood angels, dark angels, space wolves in the form of elysians, krieg, maybe even savlar chems etc)


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yes but in the 41st milenium they are flinging that number because its an entire planet under war. but do you ever read IG stories (gaunts ghosts, Cadian blood, ice warriors, rebel winter etc) of men 3 ranks deep, in step marching head on into enemy.... no.

There is actually a perception that the IG are now the power race under 5th.

UK GT final did not corroborate this as they did not place (mainly Air Cav I believe from buddies there).

One of the lists which I hear is now the "cookie cutter" IG list involves vanilla MRBT with max foot infantry.

Avoid upgrades.

Subject to opinion

Most of the "Cookie Cutter List" I have seen are list made to conform the the 4e list before the 5e came out and are made up from thier old list. most of the "New List" I have seen are Armored Fist or Air Cave List.

@ Anpu42 : Actually you can get by with 21 models, where before you had to have more than that just for a single Troop Choice, and needing 41 models (including a Chimera!) to make a legal list (5man HQ, 5man+2x10man Troop and 1vehicle+10man Troop).

The new IG codex has a lot of little problems that make big holes and break a lot of tradition. But in my opinion, it is the most fluff-loyal version of IG ever written and is a superlative codex. It is neither broken nor cheese, and contains loads of flexibility. Just my opinion however.

Anpu42 wrote:Most of the "Cookie Cutter List" I have seen are list made to conform the the 4e list before the 5e came out and are made up from thier old list. most of the "New List" I have seen are Armored Fist or Air Cave List.

Armored fist I can't speak for, Air Cav was in abundance at the UK GT Final but did not perform at all. I can't speak for other tournaments.

The "glass cannon" may be coming out over a 6 game tourney. Would be interesting to hear other views.

dark6spectre wrote:i will see if i can get my hands on the copy and rummage through, but i am sure there will be features which i will dislike. what i would atleast prefer is a more detailed list for armies. so that atleast some armies in IG will have better features. such as yes doctrines which i heard have been taken out. doctrines gave more variety. think of it as space marine chapters, just in IG. you have the bog standard IG (i.e ultramarines, imperial fists etc) and then unique IG (Blood angels, dark angels, space wolves in the form of elysians, krieg, maybe even savlar chems etc)


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yes but in the 41st milenium they are flinging that number because its an entire planet under war. but do you ever read IG stories (gaunts ghosts, Cadian blood, ice warriors, rebel winter etc) of men 3 ranks deep, in step marching head on into enemy.... no.

Then you are obviously playing them wrong? I mean, I don't know about you, but if I have an advantage in numbers, I'm not gonna waste that on marching them towards an enemy, which will hands down own you in CC anyway. So please, try thinking before you throw out this garbage.

I don't mean to be a prick, but your just coming off very shortsighted. And you don't even have the codex yet.

OH, and every bloody codex has something someone dislikes, there is no such thing as a perfect codex.

but ive glanced it through, and got opinions from friends who agree with me. and i seem to be playing them right as it goes by the army list. You can't actually play them wrong unless you do not follow the codex.

That... doesn't even make sense... and once again, how many lists have you tried? Have you tried every single set up possible for the units your using? If not, go do that, then please come back.

And don't tell me you dont have the models, thats why we proxy new stuff.

And if you then still don't like them, then sell your IG and start something new that is more to your liking.

Ouch dude

I'm not saying this to offend him or anything, but smack talking an entire codex on some suggestions and hunches just smacks me as ignorance, especially with a codex that has more then proved it's self lately.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion on the fluff and organization of the army list, but the IG is hands down one of the very best codexes in terms of putting together a power army list. You can say it sucks from an organizational standpoint (again, whatever floats your boat), but it is VERY powerful on the tabletop.

all i am saying as that the new army list seems utterly stupid here: 1 platoon command squad, 2-5 infantry squads, 0-5 heavy weopon squads,, 0-2 spec wep squads, 0-1 conscript squads.

does that sound like a platoon. this is giving people the chance to field 1 troop choice filled up with those options. its pathetic. a platoon should only consist of a platoon HQ and infantry squads, with maybe the option for 1 heavy OR 1 special squad. its utterly stupid. and i already have an army to my liking. its called 4th Edition IG. and yes, it makes complete sense. you can never play an army WRONG unless you are not following the rules. the Codex is set up PRIMARILY for Hordes.


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added to the first bit, it just bigs up the troop choices even more compared to other armies. now you can possibly destroy an enemy army with just 1 troop choice. its just too great.

Try a few builds and see how it goes mate

Edit: Otherwise its just theoryhammer which is why people are giving you stick

I've never seen anyone actually bring a platoon with all of the allowed units. The new codex turned out to be commonly played less hordey than the previous one.

Raxmei, the thing is, it allows all those units to be used. everything just sounds too hordey to my liking. there should be penalties. and as soladrin said it has proved itself lately, well that might be because it has gone too far in making IG better. its turned out that now an IG trooper is completely and utterly weak, even though they are human. the soldiers should be a tad less in number and maybe better in strength as IG arnt as weak as they should be. i mean, IG troopers should be more level with Tau maybe dark eldar.

dark6spectre wrote: i mean, IG troopers should be more level with Tau maybe dark eldar.

uhhh...no.

Oh jesus, this thread. This thread

Hehe.

Something about horses and water...

CMAC what? anyway think about it. Tau are very humanoid and they have armour. Cadians have armour. bit of a similarity. only difference is they have smooth body fitting armour and floaty stuff while IG have thick, blockey armour and stay-on-the-ground stuff.

Ah, so that was a troll. Good one!

?

I think I see where you are coming from. It's a fluff opinion.

However what I think what people are suggesting is that the 5th ed IG codex is quite strong and there are many options which can create an enjoyable list to play. Maybe try a few and see how YOU like it. Without trying it is hard to gauge how it plays out. If you really don't enjoy it, you can see if your opponents will agree to playing the 4th ed codex. However this may cause quite a fw difficulties, so I suggest you play with what GW have written.

Let us know how it goes!! Enjoy