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I was again disappointed when comparing the "ZOMG THE SKY IZ FALLING [insert unit from new codex here] WILL DESTROY US ALL" that I read on forums with in-game reality. In this case the over-hyped unit was none other than Mephiston of the Blood Angels.

If he's not hiding, he's being smooshed with Thunder Hammers or rendered into a greasy spot on the table with meltaguns. He's tough, but the lack of an invulnerable save is just unforgivable. Just thought I'd throw that out there. The Sanguinor is a hell of a lot better in my opinion. Anyone agree? Disagree?

But the Transfixing Gaze + hell loaf of attacks + force weapon instakilling anything does seem kinda scary...
The only lack is that he can't use every power, only three of them.
But one of them is Sword of Sanguinius so yeah, expect lots of insta-killing.

Ok, you have posted what tons have people have said so far, whats new? 0_o

Yeah, I mean he swooped in and thrashed a tactical squad that was on an objective.

Then I drove my LR up and he ate Thunderhammers like it was going out of style. I was pretty underwhelmed, really.

I was just saying that there is a reason that Mephiston is being feared by multi-wounded non-Eternal Warrior models.
What was the last question in OPs post?
"Anyone agree? Disagree?"
I just answered the question with an explination.

Any time he's not the table he should have a 4+ Cover Save and Feel No Pain, because if you're going to spend that many points on him, he darn well better be sitting in the middle of an Assault Squad with a Sanguinary Priest near by. That requires an average of 19 Melta Gun (or other other Str8 AP2 guns) to take down, while anything less than that is rendered almost useless.

Once he gets into HtH, he's a beast. With the Jump Pack ability, he's going to be nearly as manuverable as the Terminators in a Land Raider, so if you should be able to avoid those TH/SS Termies that will smoosh him so badly, and hit other targets that are not quite as tough, though him and his buddies would still cause massive damage to those if they did engage them.

Then I drove my LR up and he ate Thunderhammers like it was going out of style. I was pretty underwhelmed, really.

So you threw a unit nearly twice his points at him to manage to kill him.
And that is after he ruined your tac squad.

To be honest, i'd say he done fine, however, the player needs a good slap for putting him anywhere near a LR.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:

Then I drove my LR up and he ate Thunderhammers like it was going out of style. I was pretty underwhelmed, really.

So you threw a unit nearly twice his points at him to manage to kill him.
And that is after he ruined your tac squad.

To be honest, i'd say he done fine, however, the player needs a good slap for putting him anywhere near a LR.

Actually, 5 Terminators cost 50 points less since the LR wasn't involved in the CC andI wouldn't say "managed to kill him" as much as "swatted him like a fly." I would much rather face Mephiston than say, Abaddon or Marneus Calgar in the same situation.

And did my opponent deserve a slap, or do I deserve kudos for a devious trap?

Aduro wrote:Any time he's not the table he should have a 4+ Cover Save and Feel No Pain, because if you're going to spend that many points on him, he darn well better be sitting in the middle of an Assault Squad with a Sanguinary Priest near by. That requires an average of 19 Melta Gun (or other other Str8 AP2 guns) to take down, while anything less than that is rendered almost useless.

Once he gets into HtH, he's a beast. With the Jump Pack ability, he's going to be nearly as manuverable as the Terminators in a Land Raider, so if you should be able to avoid those TH/SS Termies that will smoosh him so badly, and hit other targets that are not quite as tough, though him and his buddies would still cause massive damage to those if they did engage them.

Yeah, actually that's what happened for a lot of the game. My opponent had to shake things up a bit because I was holding a lot more objectives than him and the game was drawing to a close.

I'm not saying he's bad. I'm just saying I was a bit disappointed by how easily he folded.

He is not a squad of SS/TH termies, so ofc he will easily fold vs crazy firepower.

If they landraiders allowed the termies to get the charge, ofc it was involved.

He seems like a fun kettle of fish.

Color me shocked. There's a reason he's not in any of my lists...

Memphiston is not scary. I will have said it before and I will say it again, if my 1000pt kan wall list can gun him down in one turn, he is not OTT.

That said, PEOPLE SHOULD TAKE HIM AT 500PTS! That is where he is broken.

Aduro wrote:Any time he's not the table he should have a 4+ Cover Save and Feel No Pain, because if you're going to spend that many points on him, he darn well better be sitting in the middle of an Assault Squad with a Sanguinary Priest near by. That requires an average of 19 Melta Gun (or other other Str8 AP2 guns) to take down, while anything less than that is rendered almost useless.

Meph is NOT an IC. He cannot join squads....ever. Your post is very, very misleading

Meph must run alone, and as such is bait for any firepower unit he faces. Also, Hoods and RoW also severely hamper his psychic abilities, so don't count on him having all 3 powers unless oyu are facing an army with no psychic defense.

So yes, Mephiston is full of fail.

Meph is not a Monstrous Creature so if you surround him by whatever unit he would normally have joined, he'll get a 4+ cover save. As well, he's still a Unit of 1 and will benefit from FNP if he's within range of the Sanguinory Priest.

The point of the post is that you shoot him wihth AP2 weapons....he will not benefit from the Sang Priest, because such weapons ignore FNP....period.

He is the biggest joke in the dex....I pray that my opponents bring him instead of the others trhings they could have spenthispoint son..my game just got alot easier

Yes, but even with AP2 it takes you that average 19 shots to I'll him if he's escorted propperly. Not to Mention that propperly escort wll keep you from assaulting him as well.

Solution to almost any character...Grey Knight Grand Master.

Zzapp gun, snotzogger (SAG), grots.

What, you mean a 250pt model doesn't auto-win the game? Big surprise. Run him in the right list, though, and Mephiston's pretty nasty.

For instance, take him with 3 librarian dreads. Fly them up a wing together, hiding him behind them. Eat said wing.

I know it's 775 points, but it's 775 points your opponent better freaking shoot - and good luck using melta, when you've got an 18" charge and 3/4 of your guys have Blood Lance.

Hesperus wrote:What, you mean a 250pt model doesn't auto-win the game? Big surprise. Run him in the right list, though, and Mephiston's pretty nasty.

For instance, take him with 3 librarian dreads. Fly them up a wing together, hiding him behind them. Eat said wing.

I know it's 775 points, but it's 775 points your opponent better freaking shoot - and good luck using melta, when you've got an 18" charge and 3/4 of your guys have Blood Lance.

Correction....
That is 775 points that loses most of its effectiveness as soon as they face one Hood or RoW....that is my point. For BA to spend a huge chunk of points on a single psyker with all of the psychic defense out there is just plain stupid. Meph will get only get off 1.5 powers a turn, and the dreads will fair worse. If Meph cannot use all 3 powers a turn, then he is a complete waste of points.

If this dex was released 2-3 years ago, Meph would have been alot scarier, however, with SW's RPs and Nid's Shadows, combined with IG/SM/DA Hoods and Eldar RoW, there are far fewer armies that he will be useful against. Almost every tourney list of these forces WILL have psychic defenses. This leaves Meph as being useful against a small list of armies/opponents...this is why he is fail.

Now, add in the huge increase in AP1-2 weapons in the metagame, as well as THs/Rending/etc (to deal with vehicles, MCs and FNP) and Meph becomes an even worse choice, due to his lack of an invul save....250 points and a complete lack of an invul save makes him an even bigger fail.

By the time you pay for everything to TRY to make him work (escorts/LR/etc) you have put way too many eggs in one basket....a no-invul/able to be shut down by psychic defense basket at that. If you instead spent all those points on more reliable and durable units than Meph, you would have a much stronger list.

Thats why Im really not using mephiston for 'ard boyz.. Too easy to make a lot less effective

Id probably take dante before mephiston because atleast Dante has metagame possibilities and some oddball abilities

The Sanguinor is the thing that's actually ridiculous for BA HQs.

I officially hate that thing.

Every time a new codex comes out, there's the inevitable Chicken Little crowd running about screaming at the brokenness of whatever the new unit/combo is.

And then, just as inevitably, there's the anti-Chicken Little crowd that puts out all the reasons why that same unit/combo sucks.

Mephiston is not Instawin, but he's certainly not Fail, either. If you use him stupidly, he won't perform. Period. If you use him intelligently, taking advantage of LOS behind vehicles or giving him cover with screening models (both of which are ridiculously easy to do) then he is a punishing beat-stick, mobile and tough enough that it's very difficult to bog him down.

And he's not in the least shut down by a psychic hood or by the AP1/2 meta. I tried him out in a game against a very competitive SW player yesterday who not only had an abundance of AP1/2 but also a DH old school psychic hood and a runic staff. I was still able to get off the occasional power, and Fleet compensates nicely if Wings get nullified. In close combat he wrecked a Lone Wolf and a Tcav squad before eventually taking another thunderhammer wound after a very long, drawn-out combat.

Five wounds and T6 does, in fact, largely make up for a lack of Invuln save. If you're dumb enough to let torrent of melta fire or a squad of TH terminators charge Meph every game, then be absolutely unsurprised when he goes down and 'Fails'.

As is, he's a reliable and useful psychic hood and close combat monster. He's not a must-take, but you don't lose much by throwing him in as your only HQ. He's balanced.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:The Sanguinor is the thing that's actually ridiculous for BA HQs.

I officially hate that thing.

In a dreadnought-heavy list or in conjunction with Death Company/Sanguinary Guard the Sanguinor's +1 Attack is a huge, huge bonus. He's also not a shabby close combatant. His use isn't as obvious as Meph, but I could certainly build an 'Ard Boyz list around the Sanguinor.

sourclams wrote:
Five wounds and T6 does, in fact, largely make up for a lack of Invuln save. If you're dumb enough to let torrent of melta fire or a squad of TH terminators charge Meph every game, then be absolutely unsurprised when he goes down and 'Fails'./quote]

It's not a matter of being "dumb."

It's the old problem of whoever commits their good unit first is going to lose it. Sometimes one doesn't have a choice in the matter due to the events in the game leading up to Mephiston being force-fed a few Thunder Hammers. I was just saying that there's HQ units out there that are comparably killy that don't die nearly as easily.

RoW would be a big problem for him, with his total lack of an Invul save and the likelihood of Perils of the Warp wounds when you're casting 3 Powers a turn.

Comparing him to Phoenix Lords who are T4 and 3 wounds with no invuln for similar prices makes Eldar players cry. He also brings a psychic hood to the table, and does not fear being within 24" of the enemy, so even if he's not using his own powers he is still capable of affecting the game.

Against an Eldar player I wouldn't even use powers. Fleet and T/S6 works just fine on its own.

And regarding the problem of committing your good unit first, that's Meph's real strength. He's only 250 points. The rest of your army will perform just fine if all Meph does is sits out of LOS behind a rhino and provides psychic hood coverage. The same is not true for anyone fielding TH Terms in any capacity, as the Terminators themselves cost upward of 300 points and they're typically in a Land Raider costing upward of 250 points. If your HQ is riding along, it's impossible to say 'well I'll just not deploy in case Mephiston comes out'.

In short, yes, if you're always getting charged by an elite CC unit capable of killing off Meph, then you are playing really, really dumb. It'll happen occasionally, but not in the majority of cases unless he's already 'done his job' so to speak.

Meph needs a cover save, and should be screened by a squad to give him a cover save.

GW did know what they were doing when they made him.

3 wounds with a 4+ invo save (Most other space marine HQs) is better against anti tank weapons than 5 wounds with no invo.

5 wounds with no invo and a 4+ cover save is better than 3 wounds a 4+ cover and a 4+ invo save as the cover and invo save both being 4+ are redundant.

Mephiston seems like he is priced correctly, because he needs to be used correctly. If he's used correctly he should be well worth his points, and if he is used poorly meph can be killed before he earns his points back.

Funny how so many over at Dakka see him as bad, while over at Warseer there's a thread of nearly only worshipping towards him. I'd say he's badass. And if my mate, whom I know can play this game. Use him and use him correctly, I will be afraid.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253726

willydstyle wrote:Comparing him to Phoenix Lords who are T4 and 3 wounds with no invuln for similar prices makes Eldar players cry. He also brings a psychic hood to the table, and does not fear being within 24" of the enemy, so even if he's not using his own powers he is still capable of affecting the game.

Amen.

But then again, we don't take phoenix lords in 'competative' waac lists. They are drasticly overpriced and completely inferior to meph, but I guess that's why we have Eldrad to make up for it . I sometimes run a phoenix lord just for fun friendly store games because I think they give me 'coolness' points... but in general, I don't think anyone uses them other than to add character to an army that would otherwise be a spam of wave serpents full of Avengers and Dragons.

The Eldar list has many inferiorities in certain choices of some things compared to the more modern books, but the ones that work really REALLY work in a way the more flexible but less all-or-nothing BA will never have, so I can't complain about mismatched points in special characters who seldom get used. All that would accomplish is that they can then whine back about my 195 point serpent full of fusion gun toting dragons easilly offing their land raider full of termies every time. Each Codex has a few gems and a few 'take it because you just think it's cool'. I don't think meph is bad, haven't seen him in action yet though, I just think he's not one of those 'gem' units either.

If you want to bring a hood to the table then you dont buy a 250 point one that cant hide in a unit

His uses seem great for the cost.
Just move about terrain picking on small units of semi-elite or lower models.
Or throw him at other characters and watch him slaughter them with ease.

Failing that, tank hunting with him is also fair game, just avoid walkers since they tend to hurt if not killed





Im not a BA player, but i would fething hate to see him used on the table against my nids or orks.
With nids, im not 100% sure how i'd tackle him.

With orks, it would be ghaz attacking on his waaagh! turn (would need to pin meph in place with a sacrifice unit)
Even then, im not sure a 2+ inv save and 7 S10 attacks would do the job.

Mephiston is a strong but balanced unit. Sure TH/SS termies will probably take him down but they take down most units so that is not saying a heck of a whole lot. The fact of the matter is he provides psychic defense, is a unit that is going to be damn hard to down with a torrent of fire, and has a good chance of eliminating most enemy characters in close combat due to his powers and transfixing gaze. His lack of IC status is also a blessing and a curse. Sure he can't join but that likewise means you don't have to configure one for him to join. He also makes a great distraction because heavy hitter units are required to bring him down. Having a single model that can make a LR full of TH/SS termies divert from their current job can be a valuable tool in the hands of a canny general.