Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Anyone else noticed that other than the SM and IG codex, all the other 5th edition codexes have been able to let you create a completely non scoring army?

What about tyranids, you could take ripper swarms which arn't scoring because of swarm.

Edit: and all the troops choices in the space marine codex are scoring, the closest you get to that is the blood angels where you have to take a special charater to make a completly non-scoring army.

wizard12 wrote:What about tyranids, you could take ripper swarms which arn't scoring because of swarm.

Yeah, but not every army could do it. Now we have Chaos Dæmons, Space Wolves, Blood angels and Tyranids out of the 5th ed codexes who could do it.

Probably means nothing, just something that caught my eye.

wizard12 wrote:Edit: and all the troops choices in the space marine codex are scoring, the closest you get to that is the blood angels where you have to take a special charater to make a completly non-scoring army.

I did say in my OP that "other than SM and IG"...

Dæmons do it with Nurglings
SM Can't do it
IG Can't do it.
SW can do it with Canis and Wolves
Nids can do it with Rippers
BA Can do it with Death Company and DC Dreadnoughts, even without the character.

Whoops, thought you said you couldn't make a completly scoring army with 5th ed codexes execpt SM and IG. Sorry.

I just looked at the BA codex and saw that death company dreads don't have the black rage special rule so they are scoring. Hmm, extra deadly.

No, vehicles of any type aren't scoring units, it's in the main rulebook.

To the OP, I don't think it's an intentional design decision. Just many armies have some units which are berserk/swarms/animals etc.

wizard12 wrote:Whoops, thought you said you couldn't make a completly scoring army with 5th ed codexes execpt SM and IG. Sorry.

I just looked at the BA codex and saw that death company dreads don't have the black rage special rule so they are scoring. Hmm, extra deadly.

Vehicles are never scoring, even if Troops.

Orks (a 4.5e codex) can do it, too.

Gwar! wrote:

wizard12 wrote:Whoops, thought you said you couldn't make a completly scoring army with 5th ed codexes execpt SM and IG. Sorry.

I just looked at the BA codex and saw that death company dreads don't have the black rage special rule so they are scoring. Hmm, extra deadly.

Vehicles are never scoring, even if Troops.

Are they able capture an objective if they're a transport with a Troop choice capable of capturing objectives inside them?

n0t_u wrote:Are they able capture an objective if they're a transport with a Troop choice capable of capturing objectives inside them?

In that case it is still not the vehicle that is claiming the objective, it is the embarked unit.

yes.


it's an interesting idea GWAR.

perhaps GW is going to lessen the number of objective based missions in 8th Ed or they will redefine scoring units.

Grey Templar wrote:yes.


it's an interesting idea GWAR.

perhaps GW is going to lessen the number of objective based missions in 8th Ed or they will redefine scoring units.

8th ed? What about 6th or 7th?

Gwar! wrote:Anyone else noticed that other than the SM and IG codex, all the other 5th edition codexes have been able to let you create a completely non scoring army?

And why does this matter? Players could always build bad armies.

It's an interesting thought. I realize GW doesn't always create the most thorough and air-tight rules (shock of shocks), but they must realize they create opportunities where non-scoring armies are possible or else the rules allowing them to do so wouldn't exist. Perhaps those are there for just Apocalypse, Battle Mission, or friendly games where scoring doesn't matter? But if so, do they really expect someone to collect, say, 11 BA dreadnoughts?

Skarboy wrote: But if so, do they really expect someone to collect, say, 11 BA dreadnoughts?

YES.

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:yes.


it's an interesting idea GWAR.

perhaps GW is going to lessen the number of objective based missions in 8th Ed or they will redefine scoring units.

8th ed? What about 6th or 7th?

ooops

i play fantasy too so i got mixed up.

yes i meant 6th

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Anyone else noticed that other than the SM and IG codex, all the other 5th edition codexes have been able to let you create a completely non scoring army?

And why does this matter? Players could always build bad armies.

Enough said.

Unless the new Battle Missions supplement has creatively changed the gameplay so everything doesn't boil down to a Meat Grinder, I've never been concerned with scoring units in a game. Sadly, it's one of the reasons I get bored with playing 40k.

Skarboy wrote:It's an interesting thought. I realize GW doesn't always create the most thorough and air-tight rules (shock of shocks), but they must realize they create opportunities where non-scoring armies are possible or else the rules allowing them to do so wouldn't exist. Perhaps those are there for just Apocalypse, Battle Mission, or friendly games where scoring doesn't matter? But if so, do they really expect someone to collect, say, 11 BA dreadnoughts?

Apoc doesn't use Force Orgs, so that's not relevant(you could always make non-scoring armies in Apoc, as you don't have any mandatories to take). That opportunity also exists within the BGB itself, as Annihilation doesn't need Scoring Units. Also, I believe you're right and I think there are a bunch of Battle Missions that don't require them either.

Vehicles are never scoring, even if Troops.

Ravenwing Land Speeders beg to differ

I am not sure why you would ever want to do it though. You gimp yourself in missions obviously and Rippers for instance are really terrible now for Tyranids.

Would someone mind elaborating how this works? Why can't these units score?

I haven't read the Daemon codex so I'm assuming it has something that says it can't score, but...

SW - Fenrisian Wolves as troops; they cannot score (as they are wolves and do not possess the higher tactical intelligence to do so)
Nids - Rippers as troops; same reason as above (though they are rippers, obviously, not wolves)
Blood Angels - Death Company are too angry to focus on scoring, and vehicles never count as a scoring unit

Skinnattittar wrote:Would someone mind elaborating how this works? Why can't these units score?

You can give a troops choice special rules (like BA Death Guard) That make them extra killy, but no longer a scoring unit. IE, a troops choice that is not a scoring unit.

Another example would be an Ork list:

2x HQs that are Big Meks.

2x Troop choices that are Deff Dreads

Whatever elites, heavy support, fast attack you want.

You fufill the 1HQ, two troop requirement, but there are no scoring units in the list.

Dæmons have Nurglings, who are Swarms, who cannot score.

Volkov wrote:

Vehicles are never scoring, even if Troops.

Ravenwing Land Speeders beg to differ

Where in the DA codex does it say they are scoring?

General Hobbs wrote:

Volkov wrote:

Vehicles are never scoring, even if Troops.

Ravenwing Land Speeders beg to differ

Where in the DA codex does it say they are scoring?

Under the Rules for RW Attack Squads Combat Squading.

WHen taken with RAS they "always count as seperate scoring units"

Skarboy wrote:It's an interesting thought. I realize GW doesn't always create the most thorough and air-tight rules (shock of shocks), but they must realize they create opportunities where non-scoring armies are possible or else the rules allowing them to do so wouldn't exist. Perhaps those are there for just Apocalypse, Battle Mission, or friendly games where scoring doesn't matter? But if so, do they really expect someone to collect, say, 11 BA dreadnoughts?

I have 4 right now, and I am sure I will get more as i buy other required models.

Of the codexes I have Eldar can't do it, Dark Angels can't, Space Wolves can, Imperial Guard can't. Then demonhunters and necrons which aren't current as such and aren't covered under the criteria of the first post.

DE only have one troops choice in the first place...

Okay, 2 if you count cult, but that is just switching a troop and an elite around. Still only one troop choice at a time. For some reason your single troop choice tends to be scoring...