First the Corgi, now this...

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**JohnHwangDD**

AP wire wrote:

DETROIT – A sleeping 7-year-old girl was shot and killed when an officer's gun went off while Detroit police were searching a duplex for a suspect in the slaying of a teenager, a police official said.

Assistant Chief Ralph Godbee said at a news conference Sunday that Aiyana Jones was hit in the neck by a single bullet and died at a hospital. Police said the girl was sleeping on a couch when she was shot.

"This is any parent's worst nightmare. It also is any police officer's worst nightmare," Godbee said.

Godbee said officers with the department's Special Response Team set off a flash grenade as they entered the apartment with their guns drawn about 12:40 a.m. Sunday with a warrant to look for a suspect in the Friday slaying of a 17-year-old boy.

The lead officer encountered a 46-year-old woman immediately inside the front room of the house and "some level of physical contact" ensued during which the officer's gun went off, Godbee said. The officers had identified themselves as police, he said.

Charles Jones, Aiyana's father, told the Detroit News the woman Godbee referred to was his mother and the child's grandmother.

"They came into my house with a flash grenade and a bullet," Jones said. "They say my mother resisted them, that she tried to take an officer's gun. My mother had never been in handcuffs in her life. They killed my baby, and I want someone to tell the truth."

Jones told the Detroit Free Press that after hearing the explosive and gunshot, he rushed into the room where his daughter had been sleeping. He said police forced him to lie on the ground, with his face in his daughter's blood.

Godbee said the shooting was being investigated and all information was preliminary. The officer was put on paid administrative leave, he said. Police do not believe the gun was fired intentionally, he said.

"We cannot undo what occurred this morning," Godbee said. "All we can do is to pledge an open and full investigation and to support Aiyana's family in whatever way they may be willing to accept from us at this time."

Jones said he was trying not to be angry but wanted the story to be told.

"This was a wrongful death," he said.

The officers had a search warrant and were looking for a 34-year-old man suspected in the shooting death of 17-year-old Jarean Blake.

Blake, a student at Southeastern High School, was gunned down Friday by a liquor store in front of his girlfriend. Blake stumbled across the street, collapsed and died, police said.

Officers arrested the suspect during the search, Godbee said. Jones said the suspect wasn't in his apartment but one upstairs that officers raided at the same time.

Godbee would not comment on newspaper reports that neighbors told police there were children in the house and showed them toys in the front yard.

"This is a tragedy of unspeakable magnitude to Aiyana's parents, family and all those who loved her," Godbee said. "It is a tragedy we also feel very deeply throughout the ranks of the Detroit Police Department."

The Detroit Coalition Against Police Brutality called the girl's death "the pain of pains" in a statement issued Sunday and questioned what protocols police used in the raid. The coalition held a candlelight vigil Sunday evening at the home where she was shot.

Apparently, rudimentary intelligence isn't a LEO requirement.

**dogma**

You just figured that out now?

That said, being Detroit, there was about a 1 in 3 chance that the place was abandoned.

**sebster**

In the other case it was armed entry into the house of a guy suspected of selling dope. In this case it was to arrest a dude suspected of killing someone. In the latter case it seems reasonable that officers would have their weapons drawn.

What happened is horrible, of course, but I'm not sure the police policy is necessarily wrong.

**Fateweaver**

If there was a struggle with the officer who had his gun drawn it's entirely possible for it to go off. Depending on the gun some of them have a trigger pull as light as a few pounds.

If the suspect was considered to be a threat (obvious from the flash-bang shot into the house) of course they go in with guns drawn. If you get intel that indicates there might be hostiles in a building you don't walk in with hands in pockets, whistling "Dixie" and acting as if nothing is wrong.

In this case I'm sure it'll be investigated down to what the officers had for breakfast that morning. Also, if the officer wasn't lying and the woman did engage in a physical altercation with an armed peace officer than she should get a Darwin as only a person with very little mental capacity (not making fun of the handicapped but those with the mental capacity to make obvious choices but don't) would decide to tangle with an armed cop (especially when he's got more like him watching his back).

**Wrexasaur**

Fateweaver wrote:In this case I'm sure it'll be investigated down to what the officers had for breakfast that morning. Also, if the officer wasn't lying and the woman did engage in a physical altercation with an armed peace officer than she should get a Darwin as only a person with very little mental capacity (not making fun of the handicapped but those with the mental capacity to make obvious choices but don't) would decide to tangle with an armed cop (especially when he's got more like him watching his back).

I know several parents that would go absolutely ape-gak, at a gun being drawn near their child. In this case, the child was shot, and the mentality was proven to be sound.

No Darwin award here, no matter the circumstances, and from neither side. It's a very depressing story.

**Cannerus_The_Unbearable**

I doubt he would shoot her intentionally without cause, but it seems like it should be harder to get a gun to go off than wrestling an old lady. Seems like you might have a pretty good idea who is in the place you're about to flashbang as well. I don't know. I'd love to blindly respect law enforcement because their jobs suck much of the time, but that isn't realistic and it's hard to draw the line.

**SilverMK2**

I'm shocked they didn't plant the gun on the dad or grandma - what are the police coming to these days when they can botch even a simple cover up?

**Monster Rain**

I think there's blame for everyone involved in this story, other than the poor kid who got killed.

If you're hanging out with people that are of the ilk that would be suspected for gunning down teenagers you should expect the police to kick in your door occasionally. The problem with the Cops' behavior is pretty self-evident.

**SilverMK2**

There are guys who live a couple of apartments down from me who seem to constantly smoke dope - I have nothing to do with them and netiher, as far as I am aware, does anyone else in the building I live in.

Just because someone is a bit dodgy, does not mean that everyone around them is too.

**Monster Rain**

SilverMK2 wrote:There are guys who live a couple of apartments down from me who seem to constantly smoke dope - I have nothing to do with them and netiher, as far as I am aware, does anyone else in the building I live in.

Just because someone is a bit dodgy, does not mean that everyone around them is too.

Right, but the cops didn't think that the accused murderer was two doors down from the house they went into. They thought he was in the house that they went into.

**SilverMK2**

Monster Rain wrote:Right, but the cops didn't think that the accused murderer was two doors down from the house they went into. They thought he was in the house that they went into.

I have just re-read your comment and I didn't read it correctly the first time (d'oh!).

Sorry!

**Orlanth**

Sometimes the police have cause to enter a property with drawn guns. even in the Uk with an unarmed police force there are armed units, and somwetimes the first officer through the door has an MP5. This isnt our equivlant of SWAT, just armed police, we have an all or nothing approach to what coppers should be armed with, which makes sense frankly.

Anyway, anytime you have armed police you have the risk of accidents. Yes look at the incident, see what went wrong. But bottom line is: bangsticks sometimes go off.

**JohnHwangDD**

Monster Rain wrote:I think there's blame for everyone involved in this story, other than the poor kid who got killed.

If you're hanging out with people that are of the ilk that would be suspected for gunning down teenagers you should expect the police to kick in your door occasionally. The problem with the Cops' behavior is pretty self-evident.

I think that the blame lies pretty much completely with the police. Coming up with a rational reason why a cop needs to shoot an unarmed child is pretty tough.

What's your address, again? I can have your "friendly" neighbor call in a tip to your local PD about how you're dealing drugs, and now I saw you with a gun the one time I came over Enjoy being swatted and hope you don't have any kids or pets...
____

SilverMK2 wrote:There are guys who live a couple of apartments down from me who seem to constantly smoke dope - I have nothing to do with them and netiher, as far as I am aware, does anyone else in the building I live in.

You better pray the cops don't get the apartment numbers mixed up when they come in guns blazing...

**Sanctjud**

Here's the original:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_POLICE_SEARCH_GIRL_KILLED?SITE=NYNYP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Really sad and very messy to sort through.

**Monster Rain**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:I think there's blame for everyone involved in this story, other than the poor kid who got killed.

If you're hanging out with people that are of the ilk that would be suspected for gunning down teenagers you should expect the police to kick in your door occasionally. The problem with the Cops' behavior is pretty self-evident.

Coming up with a rational reason why a cop needs to shoot an unarmed child is pretty tough.

Yeah, it would be if that's what I was saying. At all.

Honestly, did you even read my post?

**Fateweaver**

How does "gun accidentally going off" equate to "cop needing to shoot an unarmed child?" Guns do go off on accident, you know?

**gorgon**

I read your post, and it's pretty tough to see how it bears any relevance to the topic unless you're trying to claim there was some level of justification here.

**Monster Rain**

gorgon wrote:I read your post, and it's pretty tough to see how it bears any relevance to the topic unless you're trying to claim there was some level of justification here.

I'm going outdoors now.

Apparently having a problem with people who have young children in their home harboring murder suspects makes one a pawn of the the fascists. Not to mention that right in the post this... this... person claims to have read I also fault the police. Sweet fething christ.

**JohnHwangDD**

Monster Rain wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:I think there's blame for everyone involved in this story, other than the poor kid who got killed.

Coming up with a rational reason why a cop needs to shoot an unarmed child is pretty tough.

Yeah, it would be if that's what I was saying. At all.

Honestly, did you even read my post?

I quoted it before, and will now highlight it now in bold.

Go ahead and explain what the family did that justifies the cop shooting their kid to death. And then making the father lie down in his kid's blood.

Oh yeah - "unarmed mother resisting arrest" isn't an acceptable answer.

**Frazzled**

It is if she grabbed the gun.

**Fateweaver**

Hmm, perhaps the whole thing would have been avoided if the cops had brought flowers and chocolates.

Lure the teen killer out of hiding with chocolate. I mean, who can resist chocolate, right?

**reds8n**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Oh yeah - "unarmed mother resisting arrest" isn't an acceptable answer.

It's an unarmed Grandmother in fact. One who, at just past midnight, had experienced a flashbang grenade go off at close range. She must have been a truly terrifying opponent to face in close combat.

I take it the family will be entitled to compensation here of some sort yes ? I assume at least the "city" would pick up, at the very least, funeral expenses and the like ? I must confess to next to no idea how those sort of things are done over the pond, hyperbloic lawsuit coverage aside of course.

**Monster Rain**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:I think there's blame for everyone involved in this story, other than the poor kid who got killed.

Coming up with a rational reason why a cop needs to shoot an unarmed child is pretty tough.

Yeah, it would be if that's what I was saying. At all.

Honestly, did you even read my post?

I quoted it before, and will now highlight it now in bold.

Go ahead and explain what the family did that justifies the cop shooting their kid to death. And then making the father lie down in his kid's blood.

Oh yeah - "unarmed mother resisting arrest" isn't an acceptable answer.

Here, I made the part red that you seem to be missing. That should help.

Oh yeah...

Monster Rain wrote:I think there's blame for everyone involved in this story, other than the poor kid who got killed.

If you're hanging out with people that are of the ilk that would be suspected for gunning down teenagers you should expect the police to kick in your door occasionally. The problem with the Cops' behavior is pretty self-evident.

The explanation for my position(green!) was in the post that you originally quoted. Though you only quoted part of it, and then asked for the very explanation that you left out. Where's your crack pipe? I'm gonna smash it.

**Frazzled**

An investigation is being made. Presupposing anything is not appropriate with like, no facts at all.

**JohnHwangDD**

Monster Rain wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:I think there's blame for everyone involved in this story, other than the poor kid who got killed.

Coming up with a rational reason why a cop needs to shoot an unarmed child is pretty tough.

Yeah, it would be if that's what I was saying. At all.

Honestly, did you even read my post?

I quoted it before, and will now highlight it now in bold.

Go ahead and explain what the family did that justifies the cop shooting their kid to death. And then making the father lie down in his kid's blood.

Oh yeah - "unarmed mother resisting arrest" isn't an acceptable answer.

Here, I made the part red that you seem to be missing. That should help.

I got that. You're still blaming the family for the kid's death.

I decline to have anything further to do with you.

**Fateweaver**

reds8n wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Oh yeah - "unarmed mother resisting arrest" isn't an acceptable answer.

It's an unarmed Grandmother in fact. One who, at just past midnight, had experienced a flashbang grenade go off at close range. She must have been a truly terrifying opponent to face in close combat.

I take it the family will be entitled to compensation here of some sort yes ? I assume at least the "city" would pick up, at the very least, funeral expenses and the like ? I must confess to next to no idea how those sort of things are done over the pond, hyperbloic lawsuit coverage aside of course.

She apparently got in a physical scuffle with an armed officer. The gun most likely went off on accident. Common sense would tell you not to go for an officers gun or gun arm or the officer himself. Was the officer supposed to just ignore her and let her keep attacking him? Maybe he tried to holster his sidearm and it went off?

There will be a civil suit I'm sure. The US is great for this "entitlement" mentality that allows criminals and lazy fethers to get millions of dollars for doing nothing at all. Like the McD's lawsuit over the hot coffee and many others of that nature.

**Monster Rain**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:I think there's blame for everyone involved in this story, other than the poor kid who got killed.

Coming up with a rational reason why a cop needs to shoot an unarmed child is pretty tough.

Yeah, it would be if that's what I was saying. At all.

Honestly, did you even read my post?

I quoted it before, and will now highlight it now in bold.

Go ahead and explain what the family did that justifies the cop shooting their kid to death. And then making the father lie down in his kid's blood.

Oh yeah - "unarmed mother resisting arrest" isn't an acceptable answer.

Here, I made the part red that you seem to be missing. That should help.

I got that. You're still blaming the family for the kid's death.

I decline to have anything further to do with you.

Best news I've had all day.

Clearly, such a reasonable person's friendship would be a great loss. Silly me, thinking that since there's still an investigation going on that this might just be a sensationalized news item that everyone is going to forget about long before the actual facts of the case are discovered.

**Fateweaver**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:I think there's blame for everyone involved in this story, other than the poor kid who got killed.

Coming up with a rational reason why a cop needs to shoot an unarmed child is pretty tough.

Yeah, it would be if that's what I was saying. At all.

Honestly, did you even read my post?

I quoted it before, and will now highlight it now in bold.

Go ahead and explain what the family did that justifies the cop shooting their kid to death. And then making the father lie down in his kid's blood.

Oh yeah - "unarmed mother resisting arrest" isn't an acceptable answer.

Here, I made the part red that you seem to be missing. That should help.

I got that. You're still blaming the family for the kid's death.

I decline to have anything further to do with you.

You blame the cop who's gun ACCIDENTALLY went off because some woman with the brains of a rock decided to attack an armed police officer.

I could definitely see you not ever being a cop.

**reds8n**

I understand the gun went off on accident, I fail to see how, realistically, a grandmother in the situation above, would present any significant threat to any police officer who was not in a coma on a life support machine.

"Common sense" tells you that sholdn't have been an issue at all.

I understand accidents will happen and that guns are always going to have a certain " oh

" factor when they are in play. BUt that's why we train people to use them and, when things do go wrong, that people are held accountable for their actions.

I don't for one minute think the officer in question felt anything other than incredibly wretched over how things occured, I doubt him and his buddies were high fivin' each other over killing a 7 year old child. But that is what happened, ultimately.

The US is great for this "entitlement" mentality that allows criminals and lazy fethers to get millions of dollars for doing nothing at all.

.. and for providing compensation for entirely innocent peope who have their lives ruined through no fault of their own.

**JohnHwangDD**

Fateweaver wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
I got that. You're still blaming the family for the kid's death.

I decline to have anything further to do with you.

You blame the cop who's gun ACCIDENTALLY went off because some woman with the brains of a rock decided to attack an armed police officer.

I could definitely see you not ever being a cop.

Hell yes, he's the one with the gun.

I could definitely see myself shooting one in cold blood.