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I have come to the conclusion that the US law enforcement really got some big issues.

Officers are supposed to serve the public, killing a 7yo becuase you wanted to be a split-second faster, is IMO unacceptable.

If your own well being inturudes on the saftey of potential innocent citizens i dont think you are fit yo be a police officer.

Of course i carry a more or less biased oppinion since officers where i come from ask questions first and shoots later.

Dumbass GI Joe cops, armed to take down a damn T-REX, come in, and shoot a kid.

I mean come on. I hope that cop goes to jail for the rest of his life. That shouldn't ever happen. His life is already ruined, his dreams haunted with him shooting a baby.

Flakk the police, never liked them.

Point man always goes in finger on trigger. Officer safety comes first and foremost.

The shot appears to have come from outside. It might have been someone taking a "free" shot at the officers or it might have been for some reason an officer firing into the house.

It's tragic what happens but when you knowingly hide a criminal in your house expect "not so nice" gak to happen.

Bla_Ze wrote:I have come to the conclusion that the US law enforcement really got some big issues.

Officers are supposed to serve the public, killing a 7yo becuase you wanted to be a split-second faster, is IMO unacceptable.

If your own well being inturudes on the saftey of potential innocent citizens i dont think you are fit yo be a police officer.

Of course i carry a more or less biased oppinion since officers where i come from ask questions first and shoots later.

Must be nice! Of course, your country is a bit less violent altogether statistically IIRC...

My question would be if while the Police are collecting all of this information surely they could come up with a time to raid the house when the kids are at school or just not around.

As unlikely as it sounds, just because there is 'Police' or 'SWAT' on the clothing doesn't mean they are legit 100% of the time.

This would prob. be one of the begillion things going through their heads after the SWAT entry.

Once again:
It is now seeming that the shot that killed the child came from outside.

If the police were inside, that indicates that they were not the ones who shot the child.

Crazy, right?

Karon wrote:Dumbass GI Joe cops, armed to take down a damn T-REX, come in, and shoot a kid.

I mean come on. I hope that cop goes to jail for the rest of his life. That shouldn't ever happen. His life is already ruined, his dreams haunted with him shooting a baby.

Flakk the police, never liked them.

Wow, I don't even know how to respond to this post so I won't.

Ah feth it. Yes, a more logical solution for entering a home where a man shot and killed a teenager earlier is to enter with flowers and chocolates.

Wow, that left me with an upset stomach having to read that post.

Kanluwen wrote:

reds8n wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

And flashbangs aren't nearly as potent as you're seeming to think
.

Neither are unarmed, disorientated 46 year old women.

Or, alas, sofas and sleeping 7 year old children.

Do you know what flashbangs do?

I mean really, have any clue at all?
The flash is what really makes them important, due to blinding and disorienting someone.
The "BANG!" is less important, but it also aids due to deafening the persons in question. The bang is also the only part that actually travels through the walls, but even then it can be diluted because of distance from the detonation and intervening materials.

So, at best, the woman was deafened and unarmed.
And attacking a clearly recognizable police officer(since you know, she's not blinded, she can see the Detroit Police Department insignia or the US flag insignia, depending on which side she was on) with a loaded firearm.

But that point seems to be moot either way, since as you pointed out--the shot that killed the kid seems to have came from outside.

Which brings me to a new point, what part of Detroit was this? Because from what I've heard, they've had problems with dickheads taking potshots at the cops.

Actually there's good odds grandma doesn't have her glasses on, and can't see . They did do this at night after a flashbomb went off. The intent is to disorient which has the effect of disorienting. Saying should should be able to recognize anything is pushing it. SWAT doesn't want recognition, they want immediate compliance and elimination of potential threats.

Kanluwen wrote:Once again:
It is now seeming that the shot that killed the child came from outside.

If the police were inside, that indicates that they were not the ones who shot the child.

Crazy, right?

If it was someone just taking a shot at the cops, it's even more of a justification for the way they have to enter these houses for felony arrests. Just a really sad cycle.

Fateweaver wrote:

Karon wrote:Dumbass GI Joe cops, armed to take down a damn T-REX, come in, and shoot a kid.

I mean come on. I hope that cop goes to jail for the rest of his life. That shouldn't ever happen. His life is already ruined, his dreams haunted with him shooting a baby.

Flakk the police, never liked them.

Wow, I don't even know how to respond to this post so I won't.

Ah feth it. Yes, a more logical solution for entering a home where a man shot and killed a teenager earlier is to enter with flowers and chocolates.

Wow, that left me with an upset stomach having to read that post.

Rule 14.

Bla_Ze wrote:I have come to the conclusion that the US law enforcement really got some big issues.

Officers are supposed to serve the public, killing a 7yo becuase you wanted to be a split-second faster, is IMO unacceptable.

If your own well being inturudes on the saftey of potential innocent citizens i dont think you are fit yo be a police officer.

Of course i carry a more or less biased oppinion since officers where i come from ask questions first and shoots later.

I've come to the conclusion that people from wherever BlaZe comes from, make conclusions without actually looking at facts, and merely off of headlines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karon wrote:Dumbass GI Joe cops, armed to take down a damn T-REX, come in, and shoot a kid.

I mean come on. I hope that cop goes to jail for the rest of his life. That shouldn't ever happen. His life is already ruined, his dreams haunted with him shooting a baby.

Flakk the police, never liked them.

I'm betting you're 15 right?

Uh, SWAT, same as any police agency, is required to have clearly marked uniforms(barring undercover officers, who even during raids are required to at least have a badge visible).

I didn't see anything about her wearing glasses, or her being in the room where the flashbang went off.

Which, again, means she wasn't blinded--just deaf.
So she made a move towards an armed and clearly recognizable officer.

Seems pretty fething stupid to me.

Kanluwen wrote:Once again:
It is now seeming that the shot that killed the child came from outside.

If the police were inside, that indicates that they were not the ones who shot the child.

Crazy, right?

Yea, er good point there.

they should have just done em all then this wouldn't be an issue.

Kanluwen wrote:Uh, SWAT, same as any police agency, is required to have clearly marked uniforms(barring undercover officers, who even during raids are required to at least have a badge visible).

I didn't see anything about her wearing glasses, or her being in the room where the flashbang went off.

Which, again, means she wasn't blinded--just deaf.
So she made a move towards an armed and clearly recognizable officer.

Seems pretty fething stupid to me.

Well
1. Lets put aside the point the bullet coming from outside which kind of miitgates everything else now doesn't it Kanly (your moniker makes me think Van Lewen from Aliens II )
2. Putting myself in perspective here. At night with guys with flashlights and bombs going off I'm not going to see cops. Mereley waking me up at night I'm not going to see cops-I am going to see a blod. Every person I know over 45 is going to have the same problem.
3. Irrelevant. People coming in screaming with lights the idea is compliance. I'd probably be like 99.9% and be shocked and comply. thats the idea no?

Kanluwen wrote:[
Do you know what flashbangs do?

I mean really, have any clue at all?

Yes, quite a good idea actually.


I also know, from personal experience, exactly how disorientating it is when the Police smash down the door to your house and storm in there late at night.

And that was as a, relatively, fit and healthy 25 year old at the time. NOT as an innocent 46 year old grandmother, minding her own business late at night not expecting any trouble as.. THEY WERE NOT ACTUALLY SHELTERING ANY WOULD BE FUGITIVE AT ALL.

But that point seems to be moot either way, since as you pointed out--the shot that killed the kid seems to have came from outside.

.

Yes, the reports are saying that Police outside the building fired into it.

I've only seen it say the shot was fired from outside. Haven't read anything saying the SWAT team fired the shot from outside.

Frazzled wrote:

Bla_Ze wrote:I have come to the conclusion that the US law enforcement really got some big issues.

Officers are supposed to serve the public, killing a 7yo becuase you wanted to be a split-second faster, is IMO unacceptable.

If your own well being inturudes on the saftey of potential innocent citizens i dont think you are fit yo be a police officer.

Of course i carry a more or less biased oppinion since officers where i come from ask questions first and shoots later.

I've come to the conclusion that people from wherever BlaZe comes from, make conclusions without actually looking at facts, and merely off of headlines.

Forgive me but i dont get what part of my post you think i make groundless conclusions? Seriously.

Frazzled wrote:I've come to the conclusion that people from wherever BlaZe comes from, make conclusions without actually looking at facts, and merely off of headlines.

To be fair to BlaZe, I've heard it said that European countries have a different philosophical bent regarding police. We in the U.S. tend to view the job as "law enforcement," they see it as "public service". Not saying either is right or wrong, just that we may be coming at things from different directions.

This leads right into to an interesting question IMO -- should officer safety or citizen safety be the primary concern?

Fateweaver wrote:I've only seen it say the shot was fired from outside. Haven't read anything saying the SWAT team fired the shot from outside.

Except there doesn't appear to be any discrepancy as to which weapon was fired, merely where the firer was at the time.

There's no reports of other shots, the police are saying they suspended the guy and they've handed the case over to Michigan State Police to investigate, including the use of the grenade.

reds8n wrote: I also know, from personal experience, exactly how disorientating it is when the Police smash down the door to your house and storm in there late at night.

Thats redy, are own little Modquisitor low rent drug runner. At least they didn't kick in the door raqiding the house for your illegal Barney collection...again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gorgon wrote:

Frazzled wrote:I've come to the conclusion that people from wherever BlaZe comes from, make conclusions without actually looking at facts, and merely off of headlines.

To be fair to BlaZe, I've heard it said that European countries have a different philosophical bent regarding police. We in the U.S. tend to view the job as "law enforcement," they see it as "public service". Not saying either is right or wrong, just that we may be coming at things from different directions.

This leads right into to an interesting question IMO -- should officer safety or citizen safety be the primary concern?

Easy question. Screw you all-MY SAFETY!!!!

Frazzled wrote:

Bla_Ze wrote:I have come to the conclusion that the US law enforcement really got some big issues.

Officers are supposed to serve the public, killing a 7yo becuase you wanted to be a split-second faster, is IMO unacceptable.

If your own well being inturudes on the saftey of potential innocent citizens i dont think you are fit yo be a police officer.

Of course i carry a more or less biased oppinion since officers where i come from ask questions first and shoots later.

I've come to the conclusion that people from wherever BlaZe comes from, make conclusions without actually looking at facts, and merely off of headlines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karon wrote:Dumbass GI Joe cops, armed to take down a damn T-REX, come in, and shoot a kid.

I mean come on. I hope that cop goes to jail for the rest of his life. That shouldn't ever happen. His life is already ruined, his dreams haunted with him shooting a baby.

Flakk the police, never liked them.

I'm betting you're 15 right?

23, actually.

I think my post came off the wrong way, or I didn't read the OP correctly.

The possibilities of that shot coming from the outside is....crazy, but genius.

Bla_Ze wrote:

Forgive me but i dont get what part of my post you think i make groundless conclusions? Seriously.

You've made your epic conclusion about the law enforcement of a separate nation from a few headlines. Priceless.

gorgon wrote:This leads right into to an interesting question IMO -- should officer safety or citizen safety be the primary concern?

I don't see why they're mutually exclusive. If you don't put cops in bad situations, they're less likely to make a mistake. It's like walking down dark allies with $20 bills hanging out of your pockets. You're not asking to get mugged, but you could have done something different to reduce the risk. Police have an inherently dangerous profession, making it less dangerous (by doing things like avoiding door-kicking, and riding alone on patrol) helps everyone.

Long story short : Renting a house.. christ 10+ years back now.... and the landlord it seemed was involved in people trafficing and had various abodes crammed full of illegal immigrants. Police raided all his properties one night... and we were just unlucky.. or lucky..depending upon your perspective.

They were very apologetic and fixed up the front door and paid for all damages -- thinking back it actually worked out quite well as I'm reasonably certain we'd broken the letter box on the door they smashed down, so we'll chalk it up as a win.

Front door opened pretty much straight into the living room, I'm say there playing Super Smash Brothers ( on the N64 !) and then next thing I know I'm pretty much pinned to the sofa by a very large gentlemen who is also yelling at me whilst other people run upstairs/into the rest of the house. Bear in mind this was a terraced 2 up 2 down the search took all of 38 seconds before they seemed to twig that we weren't Chinese immigrants.

It was a very long 38 seconds though.

And best of all they didn't find the big block of hash I had in my bedroom either

Frazzled wrote:

Bla_Ze wrote:

Forgive me but i dont get what part of my post you think i make groundless conclusions? Seriously.

You've made your epic conclusion about the law enforcement of a separate nation from a few headlines. Priceless.

It wouldn't be OT forum if jumping to conclusions was NOT the norm.

gorgon wrote:This leads right into to an interesting question IMO -- should officer safety or citizen safety be the primary concern?

Given that the job of the officer is supposed to "protect & serve", I'm going pick "citizen safety".

Especially as the officers are the active party here. They created the situation, and apparently fired blind at the house.

gorgon wrote:This leads right into to an interesting question IMO -- should officer safety or citizen safety be the primary concern?

The problem is that you won't find people willing to storm a house if they won't be allowed to defend themselves if the people in there don't want to come quietly...

Fateweaver wrote:It wouldn't be OT forum if jumping to conclusions was NOT the norm.

Reference to Office Space

Frazzled wrote:

Bla_Ze wrote:

Forgive me but i dont get what part of my post you think i make groundless conclusions? Seriously.

You've made your epic conclusion about the law enforcement of a separate nation from a few headlines. Priceless.

I see you have taken offence, fret not sir, since you did not fully grasp what i wrote out of anger or my inability to convey my thoughs through written english.

I take it you disagree that US law enforcement got big issues since this is the only thing i wrote about it. I said nothing more about the US.

reds8n wrote: And best of all they didn't find the big block of hash I had in my bedroom either

In Amerika, they'd have found it, and then nailed you to the wall as a big-time drug dealer...