Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 13:14:19
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
|
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8688501.stm
The best part is at the top...
The alleged leader of an al-Qaeda plot to bomb targets in north-west England has won his appeal against deportation.
A special immigration court said Abid Naseer was an al-Qaeda operative - but could not be deported because he faced torture or death back home in Pakistan.
Someone tell me the best way to avoid getting rage related injuries?
I know its best not to get so worked up by this sensationalist stuff, and yeah we need due process and we need to look after the innocent people and blah blah (insert Guardian reading labour voting pinko statements here)
But seriously...
He IS in Al Queda, and we cant kick him out?!
Now, clearly the guys are going to be monitored for the rest of their days, so they wont be able to commit anything, im sure of that. But how much does that cost? How much does that take from our resources? Who on earth agrees with this type of thing other than people that read the Daily Mirror or the Guardian? And they can only make up say.. 10% of the countries population, so surely we should just hoof them out uncerimoniously.... right?
|
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 13:24:15
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Bryan Ansell
|
I agree mattyrm.
This gakker should be deported. Sod his rights, if he had the courage of his convictions he would be begging to go back to Pakistan just to front up to the regime there.
In these instances we should stop hiding behind human rights legislation.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 13:24:42
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Well, I do believe that is poetic justice being trapped within a country that you hated enough to want to harm.
Now the question is since their faces have been plastered all over the news and their names recorded in perpetuity for their crimes, how long do you think it will take the people to get their hands on them, and to top it all off their ability to function in society? Who would want to hire a terrorist for non-terrorist related activities?
But getting too far off track here, what does it mean since they cannot be deported? Will they be staying in your country indefinately?
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 13:36:25
Subject: Re:Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
Manchester UK
|
I don't understand why the fact that he is from a crappy country is OUR problem all of a sudden. He's not from here, he hates the UK and was apparently conspiring to do British people harm. That Pakistan is a total gak-hole is no reason to keep him here - no-one who wasn't born here has no inherent right to stay here, in my opinion. It is a privilege to be granted, and to be withdrawn as the government sees fit - whenever and for whatever reason.
We don't want him, and we don't want people like him. Seriously, why do they come here if they hate us so much? Oh yeah, it's because the infidels have a quality of life which is beyond the imagination of most Pakistanis, that's why. fething hypocrites. They use our country, our health-service, our universities - then they plan our downfall.
If the Pakistani authorities want to pull his fingernails out, that's their business. It shouldn't be ours, and it shouldn't stop us from kicking this arsehole out.
Rant over.
|
Cheesecat wrote:
I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 13:52:35
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
|
Anyone want to C&P the article for those of us working for evil companies that block news sites?
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 14:47:18
Subject: Re:Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime
|
The alleged leader of an al-Qaeda plot to bomb targets in north-west England has won his appeal against deportation.
A special immigration court said Abid Naseer was an al-Qaeda operative - but could not be deported because he faced torture or death back home in Pakistan.
Mr Naseer, 23, was one of 10 Pakistani men arrested last April as part of a massive counter-terrorism operation in Liverpool and Manchester.
Student, Ahmad Faraz Khan, also 23, won his appeal on similar grounds.
The security services believed the men were planning to attack within days of their arrest, but neither was charged.
'Stigmatised for life'
A Conservative minister indicated the government would not, after all, be changing the law to allow the deportations to go ahead,.
This is despite a Tory election promise that the Human Rights Act would be abolished.
The Home Secretary, Theresa May, said she would not be appealing against the ruling, handed down by the Special Immigration Appeals Commission.
She said: "We are disappointed that the court has ruled that Abid Naseer and Ahmad Faraz Khan should not be deported to Pakistan, which we were seeking on national security grounds.
"As the court agreed, they are a security risk to the UK. We are now taking all possible measures to ensure they do not engage in terrorist activity."
The lawyer for both men, Gareth Peirce, said the ruling was the "worst of all possible worlds" because they were flagged up as being involved in terrorism based on evidence "one is not told".
She said: "It's no victory even though the young men have won, in the sense that they have been stigmatised for life and put at risk or even further risk in their own country on the basis of the shocking phenomenon of secret evidence.
"It's no way to conduct justice. If people have committed a crime, put them on trial."
The ruling effectively means that MI5's case against two of the men has been supported by the courts even though neither of them was ever charged with a criminal offence.
Two other men also arrested in the raids lost their deportation appeals. Abdul Wahab Khan, 27, and Tariq Ur Rehman, 38, had already returned to Pakistan.
In his judgement, Mr Justice Mitting said Mr Naseer was sending e-mails to a contact in Pakistan - and that the recipient was an "al-Qaeda operative".
The e-mails were said to be at the heart of the plot and culminated in a message sent to Pakistan in April 2009 in which Mr Naseer said he had set a date to marry, something MI5 said was code for an attack date.
"We are satisfied that Naseer was an al-Qaeda operative who posed and still poses a serious threat to the national security of the United Kingdom," the judgement said.
It added: "Subject to the issue of safety on return, it is conducive to the public good that he should be deported."
The judge said Ahmad Faraz Khan had become a "knowing party" to the plan because he had "undergone a radical change in view" between leaving home and studying in the UK.
But in both cases, Mr Justice Mitting said it was impossible to return the men to Pakistan.
"There is a long and well-documented history of disappearances, illegal detention and of the torture and ill-treatment of those detained, usually to produce information, a confession or compliance," said the judgment.
Turning to the three men who have already left the UK, Mr Justice Mitting said Abdul Wahab Khan and Tariq ur Rehman were committed Islamists who knew of Mr Naseer's plan.
Student Shoaib Khan, however, won his appeal, with the court saying there was no evidence of wrongdoing against him.
His lawyer Amjad Malik told the BBC that his 31-year-old client, who is in Pakistan wanted to return to the UK to resume his studies.
The government's independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, the Liberal Democrat peer Lord Carlile, said: "We do not want people who have been held to be terrorists walking our streets. We therefore have to start looking for a different way of dealing with individual cases.
He said he hoped the government would look at ways of ensuring people would be treated properly if they were returned to their native countries.
BBC political correspondent Laura Kuenssberg said Cabinet Office Minister Francis Maude has suggested the coalition government will, for now, retain the Human Rights Act.
This is despite a promise in the Conservative manifesto to replace it with "a British Bill of Rights".
The controversial affair began last April when the Metropolitan Police's then head of counter-terrorism, Assistant Commissioner Bob Quick, inadvertently revealed details of the investigation.
Mr Quick resigned after he was photographed carrying clearly visible secret documents outside 10 Downing Street.
Police brought their operation forward and raided a series of locations across Liverpool, Manchester and Lancashire, eventually detaining 11 men.
Ten of them were students from Pakistan, who were all either close friends or loosely known to each other.
Mr Quick told the BBC that at the time they feared an imminent attack.
But no explosives were found and all of the men were released without charge after two weeks.
They were immediately detained again under immigration laws after the then home secretary sought their deportation, saying they were still a threat to national security.
|
Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!) |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 14:51:01
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Massive Knarloc Rider
|
wow....torys are gonna abolish the human rights act. That makes me feel all warm inside -.-
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 14:52:42
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Hanging Out with Russ until Wolftime
|
ghosty wrote:wow....torys are gonna abolish the human rights act. That makes me feel all warm inside -.-
It's about time. Not once has it been used to actually protect someones "Human Rights". All it has been used for is to protect Terrorists and abused to let thugs roam the streets.
|
Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail.
Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!) |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 15:00:27
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
|
|
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 15:01:19
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
|
Gwar! wrote:It's about time. Not once has it been used to actually protect someones "Human Rights". All it has been used for is to protect Terrorists and abused to let thugs roam the streets.
To paraphrase your avatar, I say!
I personally can't say these people were involved in actual terrorist plots (as far as I know nothing has been released to show that they were) and this set of deportations could be a massive step towards people just "vanishing" in the night vis Nazi Germany ans Soviet Russia. They've not had trials (again as far as I am aware), just the nod and wink from the anti-terror establishment that these are "bad men".
I have no problem with deporting people who have proven links with terrorists, and people who have been proven worthy of deporting (no matter how much danger they would be in if they were actually deported), but I do like to see this demonstrated in court, rather than behind the scenes.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 15:03:15
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Yvan eht nioj
In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg
|
SilverMK2 wrote:Gwar! wrote:It's about time. Not once has it been used to actually protect someones "Human Rights". All it has been used for is to protect Terrorists and abused to let thugs roam the streets.
To paraphrase your avatar, I say!
I personally can't say these people were involved in actual terrorist plots (as far as I know nothing has been released to show that they were) and this set of deportations could be a massive step towards people just "vanishing" in the night vis Nazi Germany ans Soviet Russia. They've not had trials (again as far as I am aware), just the nod and wink from the anti-terror establishment that these are "bad men".
I have no problem with deporting people who have proven links with terrorists, and people who have been proven worthy of deporting (no matter how much danger they would be in if they were actually deported), but I do like to see this demonstrated in court, rather than behind the scenes.
That's a valid enough concern but it's not like we had this problem before the Human Rights Act was adopted - we never had a need for it in the first place and it's continued existence is open to abuse by all sorts of unsavoury characters.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 15:17:51
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
|
@ Filbert - Sorry, my comment was not meant to be linked with the HRA, I was just expressing support for what Gwar! said and then carried on with my own thing.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 15:21:31
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Yvan eht nioj
In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg
|
SilverMK2 wrote:@ Filbert - Sorry, my comment was not meant to be linked with the HRA, I was just expressing support for what Gwar! said and then carried on with my own thing.
I see. Sorry - I misread!
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 15:22:46
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
|
No worries
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 15:31:49
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker
|
The Government should definitely be able to ship people back to the barbaric countries they escaped from decades ago without revealing any evidence (which would expose state secrets) to face torture and prosecution. They all deserve it because, lets face it, no smoke without fire amirite? I'm sure that nice David guy I see on the television will keep us all safe in our beds from the bad men.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 15:47:18
Subject: Re:Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos
Grim Forgotten Nihilist Forest.
|
The only thing you can do to solve your rage is go out and take it into your own hands.
Be a vigilante!
|
I've sold so many armies. :(
Aeldari 3kpts
Slaves to Darkness.3k
Word Bearers 2500k
Daemons of Chaos
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 15:54:23
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
|
Soup and a roll wrote:The Government should definitely be able to ship people back to the barbaric countries they escaped from decades ago without revealing any evidence (which would expose state secrets) to face torture and prosecution. They all deserve it because, lets face it, no smoke without fire amirite? I'm sure that nice David guy I see on the television will keep us all safe in our beds from the bad men.
If you are not at all in agreement with my points then feel free to say so. But dont come on here and spam your insulting sarcastic blithering.
Nobody said the government should be able to ship people away without revealing evidence, the court said he WAS a member of AQ and he WAS a danger to the British people.
I also find the wording of your whole sentance to be insulting, as if people (entirely rationally in my opinion) who think that proven members of Al Queda (with proven links to terrorism that are found to be a threat to the UK in a court of law) should be deported are somehow paranoid or childish.
Did you even read the story? Where are you going with your comment? Do you disagree or are you just some sort of brainwashed hippy that can never ever see the point in possibly DEPORTING KILLERS?
Please enlighten me as to your thinking, what would you do with him? Send him to work in Home base or a DIY warehouse?
Im not paranoid or childish.
Im a fething green beret, im a fearless one eyed death dealing killing machine and i eat Taliban fighters for breakfast. Get the bloke in my living room and a promise of legal immunity and ill rip his throat out with my bare hands and sleep like a baby afterwards!
......
Ok, im childish.
Im not paranoid though!
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/18 15:55:46
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 16:00:10
Subject: Re:Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Veteran ORC
|
And today was such a good day. I just got done with my final test of High School, officially Gradumacated, but then I had to go and read this.....
Just fething rediculous. I think we need to remind the justice system of 9/11.....
|
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 16:20:35
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
So it appears the US isn't the only one who coddles terrorists.
At least GB and the US have ONE thing in common.
|
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 16:25:58
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
|
mattyrm wrote:
He IS in Al Queda, and we cant kick him out?!
Nope.
Keep i mind I've been unjustly woken after a night on the piss (I become English when drunk). Expect typos, and irrational behavior.
|
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 16:50:00
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
It seems that they've already left. Someone else's problem now.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 20:59:23
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Major
|
Hang on, if he is a member of Al Queda isn't that grounds alone to prosecute him?
Bit of a strange one, I agree that if he's hasn't been convicted of a criminal offence then there should be no grounds to deport him, but surly being an active member of a terrorist organisation should be grounds for criminal charges, even if he hasn't been explicitly linked to a plot?
|
"And if we've learnt anything over the past 1000 mile retreat it's that Russian agriculture is in dire need of mechanisation!" |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 21:03:42
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Doesn't being an AQ member pretty much link you to every plot?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 21:12:30
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Wait... he wants to KILL YOU and you won't deport him because he might be tortured?
This is the problem with you Limeys. Conquerors guilt. Send him back to his third world gak hole and let the chips fall where they may. You can't save the world.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 21:35:48
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
|
Whats our excuse? We have a whole passel of Chinese terrorists luxuriating in Somoa or someplace because China might not take kindly to them.
|
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 21:37:25
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
|
The Green Git wrote:Wait... he wants to KILL YOU and you won't deport him because he might be tortured?
This is the problem with you Limeys. Conquerors guilt. Send him back to his third world gak hole and let the chips fall where they may. You can't save the world.
Let's not let law rule. No, that would be stupid.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/18 21:38:00
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 21:38:58
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
mattyrm wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8688501.stm
A special immigration court said Abid Naseer was an al-Qaeda operative - but could not be deported because he faced torture or death back home in Pakistan.
I say the Brits just ship him back to Gitmo for daily waterboarding sessions by the CIA.
Or let the Russins torture him.
Either way, I don't care.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 21:40:05
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Not to mention the moral high ground. After all, why not succumb to terror and descend to the level of Al Qaeda?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 21:59:49
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Storm Trooper with Maglight
Buffalo NY, USA
|
@mattym: Did YOU read the article? The reason that this guy was allowed to stay it seems is that he was never charged with anything, it says so in the second to last paragraph. He had E-mailed a member of AQ it doesn't say that this guy WAS a member of AQ. MI5 BELIEVED that when he wrote that he had set a date to be married this really meant he was declaring when he would execute his supossed plan.
I don't support this courts decision in the slightest way but you seemed to be ready to blow your top, so I thought I would clear some things up for you. This grey area that this guy lands in by the way is the reason that the US had Guantanamo Bay setup the way we did. Some screw balls with a digi-camera and no common sense come along and the world is like "Whoa! You can't be doing that kind of stuff!".
|
ComputerGeek01 is more then just a name |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/05/18 22:02:41
Subject: Must.. contain.... rage...
|
 |
Savage Minotaur
Chicago
|
Anyone figure this is an excuse to see if he has information about Al-Qaeda?
|
|
 |
 |
|