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I don't want this to come off as whine, but I admit there is a bit. I know a good numbe of people who have said a number of the things I say here. I feel Chaos has an identity crisis. From a codex design stand point they used to have the trade off, where they had difficult to control units and sacrificed weapon options and techier vehicles of the loyalists for daemons, but now they don't have that.

This is not to say Chaos isn't good, but Chaos Marines and Daemons are much more restricted in the ways they can be competitive. They have the disadvantages still and fewer of the gains made as tradeoffs.

Chaos has gone through a number of itterations that have varied drastically between editions of 40k. From "Slaves of Darkness" to 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th Chaos has always found ways to dissapoint. Whether its the limited way of playing this edition, where the only question is "how many lash princes?" and "how many obliterators?" or last editions everything and the kitchen sink list or its orignial table ladden book that drowned the player in randomness, Chaos is in many ways too chaotic. I know, maybe its suppose to be chaotic but at some point the fact that 40k is a game has to over ride representing the self destructing tendencies of chaos.

With 4th edition "Chaos" was primarily represented by the shear volume of options that could be brought by the army. That unfortunately was to its detriment since other non-chaos players struggled to grasp the ruinous ways of it. The stripped down 5th edition codex stripped Chaos Marines of all their daemons and 90% of their configuration options. Yeah we got a daemon codex, but if you combined both books together you'd end up with something similar in size to the Loyalist marine's codex. As far as 5th ed. goes Chaos Marines is a very basic codex, few bells and wistles. Its sad when I hear about Chaos players using loyalist marine books to play simply because those are more "chaos". It shows a real shortfall.

Given the cycle GW goes through with codices now, whenever Chaos gets revisited they will likely see an influx of new units. Moving forward Chaos still remains stuck in the mind set of being treated as if it were just a third wheel to the loyalist marines. For example why hasn't Chaos ever recieved a Chaos Rhino that isn't SM rhino + bits; it be farely easy to model chaos ornamenation onto Rhino's and produce something more distinctive by having details integral to the model. I did Chapterhouse's Heresy-era Rhino bits, but why can't GW take a stronger aesthetic stance. What other army is really forced to used some other armies vehicle. SOB atleast have substantial add-ons and variants. I imagine will see GW retire more of the plastic-metal hybrids next time around, as well and hopefully they'll do more. All there effort for 5th was directed towards the Daemons which have been divorced from marines, leaving less distinction of chaos from loyalist.

Something tells me we won't see god-specific daemons reintegrated and will have to just live with the generic borrowed form. With an emphasis on Chaos Marines and less on "Chaos" as a monolithic entity, I think we're going to see daemonic elements brought in as more mortal constructs, daemon engines like the Defiler or Obliterators. I think one of the sad things about this edition is that a god-specific army is relegated to unit spamming or "count-as"-ing. It would be nice to see models like the Khorne Blood Slaugther or Nurgle Blight drones brought in as possible ways to supplement the codex. Foul mortal construct built to bind chaos to the material plane. I'm sure Tzeentch and Slaanesh could have equally interesting things as well. Or maybe in the least we can see some "Chosen Bezerker/PM/TS/NM.

I'd like to see GW move away from rules that kill your own models, while costing you more for it. Disadvantageous trade offs are fine as long as the gain is justfiable. Dreadnoughts that kill you, Enhanced Warriors that die, Possessed that are never what you need them to be, and Spawn that do their own thing at their own pace will never be used without rules being fixed. Can anyone think of a better approach?

I've just been mulling over this since Chaos Marines were redone and started really thinking on since I decided to take a break from my IG to revist my Emperor's Children. I thought it'd be interesting to see other peoples thoughts and hopes for a new direction.

CSM are legionaires and renegades, thus they have to use STC vehicles. STC = standardised design.
I doubt GW will spent time and effort on legion specific or chaos specific variants of common STC designs and just point to 3rd party
suppliers like FW.
You know, GW didn't provide BT/DA/SW vehicles. Only basic STC chassis and maybe a few FW bitz.

At best, GW finally adds a plastic chaos dread.

The split between demons, beasts and mortals in whfb could be done in 40k too.
=>Demons, chaos marines, mutants and heretics.

I wasn't saying GW give them a uniquely chaos STC. If you look at the artwork chaos vehicles have an aesthetic quality that doesn't translate to the models because of the limitations of having separate bits that get glued on. What I was insisting upon is that GW should try harder to attain the aesthetic they've portrayed in the artwork. The loyalist Rhino is denoted as the "MKII-A" Rhino... so obviously there are other variants. For example, why wouldn't the Chaos Legions and Renegades maybe use an older variant, like the MKI-C (pulling number out of nowhere). The approach of making Chaos use kits with some stuff tossed on is a stay over from a time when GW had fewer resources. They have more resources, so I think its reasonable to accept a bit more from them.

Let me put it this way. Chaos and Loyalists both have dreadnoughts, but Chaos isn't expected to use the loyalist dreadnought kits, so why should it with the Rhino and its variants. I'm not saying they redo all the variants but a Chaos Rhino would allow for the aesthetic to be carried through to the vehicle range. It could be as simple as giving the tracks a chaos look, adding sculpted wear and tear, and putting a similar embellishment to what the Defiler has (the raised boarders). Or it could be as simple as giving an alternate front panel and top hatch with incorporated chaos look. That's as much as BA got.

The other loyalists didn't get a change of Rhino, because they're loyalists with only iconographic and internal differences. Chaos has a more invasive aesthetic.

I don't think Chaos will get a unique kit, but I think it would be one more thing to move Chaos Marines away from being treated as a variant to the loyalist Space Marines and instead as a separate army.

I think your probably right about the worth while precedent of WHFB being used for 40k. Demons, Chaos Marines, Other mortals. It would certainly make people happy.

A lot of the chaos updates over the years have been somewhat manufactured. Usually through either a lack of models from GW (forcing Chaos players to convert their own or use outdated stuff) or a rushed codex. I can agree with the original poster that due to Chaos having been divorced from Daemons, there is less variety and flavour to distinct them fluff wise or gameplay wise from loyalists.

Back in the day it used to be Chaos = Loyalist - shiny technology + daemons and daemon technology. Now its Chaos = Loyalist - technology + Defiler. There is a current lack of an incentive to play chaos over loyalist MEQs other than fluff reasons. Model wise and gameplay wise, I think chaos could use with a new modern direction. Hopefully the next person who writes the chaos book is aware of the current complaints with chaos and knows how to rectify them when writing the book.

Thanks for being more concise than I was.

This is the same old thread, the Chaos Codex is boring as all hell. You know it, we know it, everyone knows it. Hopefully they do a better job next time.

Or someone will have hell to play *cracks knuckles*

candy.man wrote:A lot of the chaos updates over the years have been somewhat manufactured. Usually through either a lack of models from GW (forcing Chaos players to convert their own or use outdated stuff) or a rushed codex. I can agree with the original poster that due to Chaos having been divorced from Daemons, there is less variety and flavour to distinct them fluff wise or gameplay wise from loyalists.

Back in the day it used to be Chaos = Loyalist - shiny technology + daemons and daemon technology. Now its Chaos = Loyalist - technology + Defiler. There is a current lack of an incentive to play chaos over loyalist MEQs other than fluff reasons. Model wise and gameplay wise, I think chaos could use with a new modern direction. Hopefully the next person who writes the chaos book is aware of the current complaints with chaos and knows how to rectify them when writing the book.

I disagree, I rather like the way the models are right now.

What I think they need to do is, since the removed daemons, add in cultists and other such units. Also, we need better daemon weapons with mastery tests instead of this stupid "on a roll of a 1 you wound yourself and don't do anything". We should also be given our veteren abilities back, we are supposed to be older and much more vetereny than Nilla Marines, so let us spend some points to have them....

I could ramble on about how much I would change were I writing the book.

If this is about bitz and sprues and blisters, then all I can say is take the opportunity to "experience the hobby in full"...i.e. conversions, bitz buying, etc.

If this is a complaint about the Codex, well, then as Nitros14 said, same ol' same ol'. I think CSM are fine. So what if you need a cookie-cutter build? So what if it's lacking in creativity? Deal with it.

I think the models are definitely the best they've ever been, there's just so much more to be done. The plastic-metal hybrid kits: Thousand Sons, Plague Marines, and Noise Marines. The direction of making dynamically posed assault squads in plastic points to raptors. The dreadnoughts old and needs love.

Nitros14 wrote:This is the same old thread, the Chaos Codex is boring as all hell. You know it, we know it, everyone knows it. Hopefully they do a better job next time.

Its hopefully more than that. I wanted to go beyond what's wrong and look at conceptual directions. 4th ed was all about the legions, 5th about the renegades. Where will the emphasis go?

I think its going to emphasize what the Chaos mortals have made for themselves since the heresy. The different physical trappings used by mortals to bind daemons to the physical plane, from obliterator daemon virus, to daemon engines, to spawn, and daemon weapons. Without daemons these are the only ways to bring the daemonic back into the codex. From a thematic stand point it does stand to help de-emphasize the god-specific slant the previous edition took, focusing more on the undivided components of the list. If GW does produce plastics for Thousand Sons, Plague Marines, and Noise Marines it does balance that back out away from Chaos Undivided, and I could imagine GW doing something like bringing in Cult Chosen as a way to make further sales of those updates. Drop pods would be an easy but lazy addition. Seeing different types of daemonic possession of vehicles would also be another thing GW could do.

Random thought, blight drones, maybe in some other form would be a great thing for chaos marines, it takes the idea of a daemon engine and gives chaos a much needed additional fast attack choice that mirrors but maintains differentiation to the landspeeder of the loyalists.

I want to see a legions codex. I think old players need that bad.

Chaos has the potential to be, and probably should be, the most interesting aspect of the 40k setting. Back in the days of Slaves to Darkness, Chaos probably was the most interesting thing in 40k.

Sadly, although the quality of the models has certainly improved, I don't think the actual aesthetic has been maintained. It all seems a bit... meh. That is true of both Chaos Marines and Daemons. They no longer seem as different and weird as they should. That is not just because I am used to them either. They just look like they have had spikes added and pointy arrows drawn on. I recently purchased the Eye of Terror Codex form EBay, and the models in that were just about holding on to the old Chaos "feel", but since then I think it has been totally lost.

Quite a few people building armies here on Dakka manage to recapture that feel, but GW's own models have lost it.

As for the lists, I'd personally like to see Separate books for each Chaos God, with Legions, Daemons, Renegade Marine and Traitor Guard buildable from each God-specific list, but I am wise enough to know that will sadly never happen. As it is though, I think whatever book comes next needs to allow you to build viable single-God lists without the need for overdoing counts-as. I'd even like to see ICs who give you God-specific bonuses for your army, but only if you stick to the apppropriate unit types.

The line between Legions and Renegades is a difficult one, but I think both have a place. There is no reason that Nurgle Legions and Nurgle Renegades should not work together, even if there is friction. Then, it is logical to assume that they would fight alongside Nurgle Guard and Nurgle Daemons. A book each for Legions, Warbands (inc Renegades and Traitor Guard) and Daemons, plus ally rules to allow all three codices to work together would make sense to me.

I've only started in 5th so I don't know the old chaos codexes. I've read the CSM codex a few times and really like it, I wish my C:SM had that many troop choices

As for the models, this is what a friend ended up with

I think chaos will never be as good as it was in the previous codex. They had options, legions, renegades pretty much everything was covered. And I think that was a problem because no one else had such awesomeness.

I always felt 4th ed stuff like traits and vet skills was a really cool direction. Far more interesting and personalizable then special char + nifty rules shenanigans that go on now. (Though chaos is in that horrible jervis middle ground of lean and boring)

My best guess is that the conceptual future of chaos is more mechanical daemonic stuff, as this is the only thing unique thing that they still possess.

The other option is cultists inclusion. So things like stalk tanks, a range of cultist units plus all the space marine stuff they currently have. This would completely change the feel and honestly I would probably dislike such a focus cause I like elite armies with low model count.

Overall though chaos will never be that amazingly option focus army it use to be.

QUESTION: I can't remember but was chaos the last codex to get the plain jane Jervis approach?

Shrubs wrote:I've only started in 5th so I don't know the old chaos codexes. I've read the CSM codex a few times and really like it, I wish my C:SM had that many troop choices

As for the models, this is what a friend ended up with

To tell the truth, only model in that that I liked was the first one.

It pretty much was the last plane jane. Even the standard space marines book was less so.

I think everyone who played chaos loved the 4th edition book, it was everything and the kitchen sink. All the legions, the possibility forfull god-cult armies, daemons, and they even managed to squeeze in mere mortal chaos cultist.

Veteran skills allowed chaos to reshape its units to what it needed. Having played both as chaos and as imperial I can say it really wasn't sustainable. The Chaos codex was great but it was too flexible. It could be too many things. It was effectively multiple codices in one.

Going back in that direction would be nice but I think it'd be wasted effort. Any attempt to will only ever be as a collection of books rather than as a single book.

One thing that comes up, ever since the design staff said they were considering it: god-specific chaos codices. I don't think would be a good tjing. The chance that the one book would cover all 4 gods in the current codex format each as separate lists is rather unlikely, the prospect of having 4 separate book seems too much. It would get to the point where each detracted from the main Chaos Marine book, and GW in an attempt to push them could pull something like they did with daeons. You might end up without bezerkers in the main book, but something vaguely similar by taking the mark.

Shaman wrote:I think chaos will never be as good as it was in the previous codex. They had options, legions, renegades pretty much everything was covered. And I think that was a problem because no one else had such awesomeness.

I always felt 4th ed stuff like traits and vet skills was a really cool direction. Far more interesting and personalizable then special char + nifty rules shenanigans that go on now. (Though chaos is in that horrible jervis middle ground of lean and boring)

My best guess is that the conceptual future of chaos is more mechanical daemonic stuff, as this is the only thing unique thing that they still possess.

The other option is cultists inclusion. So things like stalk tanks, a range of cultist units plus all the space marine stuff they currently have. This would completely change the feel and honestly I would probably dislike such a focus cause I like elite armies with low model count.

Overall though chaos will never be that amazingly option focus army it use to be.

QUESTION: I can't remember but was chaos the last codex to get the plain jane Jervis approach?

To be fair the last codex was rediculously overpowered. Being able to take oblits as elites, basilisks, vindicators, infiltrate your whole army and have a demon prince that was nigh unkillable and could cut swathes through all of your opponents army was a little to much. They did the typical knee-jerk reaction and took out everything that made it too powerful, which was also the stuff that made it interesting.

The next one should at least be more interesting, demon engines would be nice, as would proper chosen, but since all the neew releases are booked up for the next few years, we'll have to wait a while.

Fifty wrote:Chaos has the potential to be, and probably should be, the most interesting aspect of the 40k setting. Back in the days of Slaves to Darkness, Chaos probably was the most interesting thing in 40k.

Sadly, although the quality of the models has certainly improved, I don't think the actual aesthetic has been maintained. It all seems a bit... meh. That is true of both Chaos Marines and Daemons. They no longer seem as different and weird as they should. That is not just because I am used to them either. They just look like they have had spikes added and pointy arrows drawn on. I recently purchased the Eye of Terror Codex form EBay, and the models in that were just about holding on to the old Chaos "feel", but since then I think it has been totally lost.

Quite a few people building armies here on Dakka manage to recapture that feel, but GW's own models have lost it.

As for the lists, I'd personally like to see Separate books for each Chaos God, with Legions, Daemons, Renegade Marine and Traitor Guard buildable from each God-specific list, but I am wise enough to know that will sadly never happen. As it is though, I think whatever book comes next needs to allow you to build viable single-God lists without the need for overdoing counts-as. I'd even like to see ICs who give you God-specific bonuses for your army, but only if you stick to the apppropriate unit types.

The line between Legions and Renegades is a difficult one, but I think both have a place. There is no reason that Nurgle Legions and Nurgle Renegades should not work together, even if there is friction. Then, it is logical to assume that they would fight alongside Nurgle Guard and Nurgle Daemons. A book each for Legions, Warbands (inc Renegades and Traitor Guard) and Daemons, plus ally rules to allow all three codices to work together would make sense to me.

GW is a biusness first and really only care about the game second. I dont think Chaos makes enought $$ for them to make a codex for each god or legion, i at LEAST would like to see 2 more codecies, one for the god spesific (World eaters, 1k sons, Death guard, Emp Children) and another for the nonspesific god legions (word bearers, night lords, iron warriors, alpha legion) I think the only army you can truly make for chaos now is red corsairs.

To me, Chaos Space Marines should be some of the meanest troops in the game. This idea I had earlier is one way of doing it, without increasing point costs or changing the statline.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/298083.page

One unit of Chaos Space Marines with the Icon of Chaos Glory would have the following stats, as long as they were surrounded by the (Very weak, very easily killed) Cultists:

WS: 4 BS: 4 S: 4 T: 4 I: 4 W: 1 A: 2 LD: 10 Sv: 3+/5++

Special Rules: Fleet, Feel No Pain, Furious Charge.

Something that would make any unit in the game, if everyone was working in the same office building, and if Chaos Space Marines came into the break room, everyone, except maybe Grey Knights would say "Hey guys, want to get the feth out of the break room?". It's not even really that overpowered, since the cultists are designed to die like flies and they are expensive to provide the buff.

CSM, in their next Codex, will be a lot closer to Blood Angels and Space Wolves, IMO: close combat gods with the ability to have lots of special rules added (FNP, counter-attack, etc.). I would expect the Marks to have more relevance, an overall price cut, and redefining of how daemons work. Chaos simply has too much character and relevance to the 40K universe to allow them to be relegated to limited-build, limited-power codexes. I'd be willing to bet they are one of the strongest codexes out there when they get redone.

@Slarg232: Well I think that would work for a renegade concept for Chaos. I think if GW were to have taken a more comprehensive approach to Chaos we would have seen something like this:

Chaos Renegades: Focusing on mutants and traitor guard, where Chaos Marines are present in the form of the pirates like Red Corsairs and infiltrators like Alpha Legion that are forced to make extensive use of the lesser devotees of chaos, to maintain their capability to wage war. The presence of IG style artillery could allow Iron Warrior styled lists.

Chaos Daemons: Focusing as it does on demons, but incorporating chaos marines like the Word Bearers who make a more extensive use of daemons and dark rituals.

Chaos Legions: Focusing on the different cults of Chaos Marines. Allowing a vanilla list but also god-specific cult lists, driven by the now common special character approach. Close to how it is now but with god-specific chosen, and the ability to give marks to summoned daemons to make them more similar to their stable counterparts. The god-cults would cover the big 4 legions, leaving Black Legion as the chaos undivided who mix and match cults and Night Lords who follow chaos undivided using no cults. In the future Chaos could see Raptors done in plastic, Night Lords could act as a driver for that. A night lord special character might allow Raptors as a troop choice.

This codex build would give chaos something on par with the loyalist with a reasonable amount of viable diversity and the other two lists would portray those other facets of chaos making trade offs in the lists for different types of options.

@Skarboy: I think you're probably right about them being brought in line with Blood Angels and Space Wolves, but I don't think we'll ever see the add on abilities we've seen in the past. I think as it is Chaos marks are pretty relevant in their ability to reshape the CSM profile. More could be done such as if god specific daemons were brought back tying in what type and how many to the number of marks of a particular god are used. I don't think we should expect, or want, the 20 different ways to upgrade the chaos marine squad. I also think the most basic csm squad should remain relative basic and fixed or else it runs the risk of being too narrow in what it represents.

YOUR RIGHT


only problem is the fact that GW is buisness oriented, and i feel as thought the old ways of grimdark and "oh your army is the good guys? let me explain to you why they're space nazis in power armor blah blah" it sucks but i feel like they wanna get younger games and go the route of "SM are the defenders of the galaxy buzz lightyear! we side with necrons to kill the tyranids"

Simply enough all three don't require much more then reworked books, characters, and one or two kits. The rest already exists.

Renegades would need big mutants and upgrade sprues for the traitors and human size mutants. Chaos Demons are pretty much settled but would have the addition of characters for the mortal component. Chaos marines, would just do well with plastic raptors and add on sprues for the three cults that metal-plastic hybrid kits.

aka_mythos wrote:This is not to say Chaos isn't good, but Chaos Marines and Daemons are much more restricted in the ways they can be competitive.

Its sad when I hear about Chaos players using loyalist marine books to play simply because those are more "chaos". It shows a real shortfall.

For example why hasn't Chaos ever recieved a Chaos Rhino

All there effort for 5th was directed towards the Daemons which have been divorced from marines, leaving less distinction of chaos from loyalist.

Something tells me we won't see god-specific daemons reintegrated and will have to just live with the generic borrowed form.

With an emphasis on Chaos Marines and less on "Chaos" as a monolithic entity, I think we're going to see daemonic elements brought in as more mortal constructs, daemon engines like the Defiler or Obliterators.

It would be nice to see models like the Khorne Blood Slaugther or Nurgle Blight drones brought in

I'd like to see GW move away from rules that kill your own models,

IMO, I'm glad CSM and Daemons split. Daemons were flat out better than Marines in 4E, which was completely stupid.

There are players fielding Green Marines instead of Dark Angels, too. Not a big deal.

Chaos Marines use Rhinos with spikes, and I'm OK with that. If somebody wants to Orteza it with a brick of GS & bitz, that's their business.

Chaos Marines have Cult options, which is a pretty big differentiator. Plus Daemon Engines, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised to see markable Daemons next edition. But they should have even lower GEQ base stats (and cost) as the price for being flavorable.

I agree that Chaos should get more Daemonic whatnots as their differentiator. The current Codex is excellent at what it does, and can use some filling in.

The real question is whether GW should further split CSM to create a Legions book with more Power-specific goodies. I say yea, bring it. I'm happy with more Codices and a slower update cycle, such that at least half of the Codices are at least one edition back.

Rule-wise, Animosity-type effects should go away, not because they're inherently bad (they're OK), but because they generate a lot of whining and suppress minis sales.



Of course, what I *really* want for Chaos is Chaos Guardmen with Mutants and Traitors and Renegades.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Of course, what I *really* want for Chaos is Chaos Guardmen with Mutants and Traitors and Renegades.

And Chaos Sisters!


But seriously, I don't want them to make 20 different Codices for Chaos, I would much rather have one slightly larger one. I would rather have Legions, Renegades, and Cultists all have rules in one book, so that you can field a specific Legion with cultists one game, and then play a non legion force next game, without having to lug around 3-4 different books. Just my 2-cents about it.

The old legion rules weren't bad except someone really loved Iron Warriors and gave them much better rules than everyone else while the same person really hated Thousand Sons and gave them awful rules.

They could do something similar but not game breaking. Put all the rules in the same book and have them just be minor variations on the same basic list.

Like the old rules were something like this:

I.E. Alpha Legion gets infiltrate on their marines and they can take cultist units. Can use only unmarked or undivided units.

Night Lords get night vision and cheaper Raptors and Bikers. Can use only unmarked or undivided units.

Word Bearers get cheaper summoned daemons and the Accursed Crozius daemon weapon. Can use only unmarked or undivided units.

Iron Warriors get siege specialists on their marines and Chaos techmarines. Can use only unmarked or undivided units.

Black Legion ignores 'Eternal Rivalry' and can mix units freely.

God specific Legions get +1 on reserves rolls and free Aspiring Champions for units with their God's Sacred number. Can only use unmarked or their God's mark units.

The 2nd 3rd Edition Codex for Chaos was fantastic. Perhaps a bit much for some players to handle and certainly very strong, so I would love if the next codex drifted back into a happy medium between this and that. I love all the options in the 3rd Ed codex, but that's not the way GW is making them any more, so it's unrealistic to hope for anything of that level of detail. But I would love if the Marines evolved more from the generic tripe they are now to more of a Chaos influenced squad of elite bad asses, with cultist support, the true cult marines being very much elite, and better selection of daemons and daemon engines. The Chaos SM codex to me thrives in that nebulous intermarriage of Marine, daemon, and machine, so I hope they expand that more.

Also, while I am thinking about it, I would like to add that the Chaos Dreadnaught would be perfectly fine with it's rage rule, with the following change: It starts out normal, but at the beginning of any of his turn, the Chaos Player may release the frenzy built up inside of the dreadnaught, causing it to be: 1-2: Blood Rage, 3-4: Act as Normal, 5-6 Fire Frenzy. This would keep it being flavorful and Chaos, and would make it one mean mother fether. Once you unleash the rage, it is like that for the rest of the game.

Slarg232 wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Of course, what I *really* want for Chaos is Chaos Guardmen with Mutants and Traitors and Renegades.

And Chaos Sisters!

But seriously, I don't want them to make 20 different Codices for Chaos, I would much rather have one slightly larger one. I would rather have Legions, Renegades, and Cultists all have rules in one book,

The days of all-in-one Chaos are long gone, so I think it's a pipe dream to expect their return.

But it's also increasingly clear that GW is very busy fleshing out Codices in a big way, so one can expect more and more in each Codex, with more distinctive rules and so forth.

I'd be very happy with 4 Chaos Codices:
- Chaos Marines (Markable & Cult Marines, markable S3 T3 Daemons, generic Machines & Engines)
- Chaos Daemons (S4 T4 Daemons with all the chrome)
- Chaos Legions (4-in-1 book of Cult Marines, Cult Specialists, Cult Daemons, Cult Machines & Engines)
- Chaos Traitors (Traitor Guard, Tanks, Cultists & Mutants; markable S3 T3 Daemons; Markable CSM as HQ only)

I know it's a pipe dream, but still, Jimminy Cricket keeps telling me to wish upon a star

As for the 4 books, I highly doubt that there will be a Chaos Traitors codex. They are barely keeping up with the armies they have now, it would be foolish to add another one. Of course, I said that with Daemons, too.


All I have to say is if they break my army up to the point where I can't use half of my models, I am going to be pissed. No other army, not even the space marines, have had to buy units and then not be able to use half of them in the next codex. They are pretty much going to have to do a mega-dex, because to me at least, there is no way they would be able to split it into 3 different codices and not piss people off.