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Do you think the use of special characters should be announced/is something that one should get "permission" from the opponent for?

Just got a narrow victory at my local shop, and my opponent made some polite comments about how he "wished he knew we were playing special characters," because he totally would have brought his
Skull Crusher and won. My interpretation: in a 2000 point game, it would be kind of weird NOT to see a special character.

Thoughts?

Do the new codexes require opponent permission? No. I let my opponent review my army list and declare everything, but I'm not going out of my way to tell them anything either. Your opponent sounds like he has sour grapes and would find an excuse for any defeat.

^^ yeah,that.

I don't say anything. I just wait for them to realize that that IS marneus calgar,not a veteran in terminator armor.

Yeah, I say this guy needs to get outta 3rd ed. Show me where it says Calgar is a "special character" that requires permission to use.

I have taken to thinking of them as Named Characters. They are just a unit that you may choose in your army.

If someone wants to have a hissy about it, then they need to change their game to be able to handle the overcosted characters.

I have an opponent that takes Lysander in every list 1000pts to 3000pts. He hasn't lived through a game yet.

And I am sure it is only a matter of games until he figures out how to take out Mephiston.

hungryp wrote:Yeah, I say this guy needs to get outta 3rd ed. Show me where it says Calgar is a "special character" that requires permission to use.

It's been that way for a very very long time. Can't blame folks who would rather not use them, despite Jervis' attempts to shift more of the 'very' expensive named character models in 5th ed.

We still don't use special characters and don't miss them either. I find them usually gimmicky and often broken.

What are you guys yammering on about? Is this some sort of anti-calgar slander?

If they're broken,why aren't you using them? >.>

MGS: Depends from character to character.
Some are just plain broken with thier rules, while others give nothing for a dumb points cost.

Ive found the swarmlord to be good for his points, but not soo good he is broken.
Mephiston seems broken at 1st, but with no inv save or EW he aint too good for an expensive character.



OT: Dont need permission to use characters anymore.
Dont see why you should really.
Way back when they could destroy units on thier own i see why, but now, they got a huge power cut.

Samus_aran115 wrote:What are you guys yammering on about? Is this some sort of anti-calgar slander?

If they're broken,why aren't you using them? >.>

Because they're broken?

I agree that some are broken, but permission not required, if standard game.

Tourneys might have certain rules though. Would depend on the TO.

If they're broken,why aren't you using them? >.>

Because not everyone plays ultrasmurfs?

So you think everyone should play an army just to get a broken character?

I did't vote becouse I think they should be anounced, but you don't need permision and how the question/Poll was worded you could no choose the correct one.

In general, yes I think you should get your opponents permission before using special characters.

However, if this is 40k specific it belongs in the 40k forums, n'est-ce pas?

RAW you don't need permission to play special characters. But that's not what the poll is about, the poll is asking about etiquette. I don't use special characters and I probably wouldn't know who is who from the fluff but I think it would be polite to point out that X figure is someone special. Then my opponent can make an educated guess at what to do about/to that figure. If you just plunk down a figure that looks like a beefed up version of everyone around him how can I know whether you're using Sir Awesome or just using his figure for the guy that leads the unit?
Like I said the poll is asking about etiquette not RAW.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:RAW you don't need permission to play special characters. But that's not what the poll is about, the poll is asking about etiquette. I don't use special characters and I probably wouldn't know who is who from the fluff but I think it would be polite to point out that X figure is someone special. Then my opponent can make an educated guess at what to do about/to that figure. If you just plunk down a figure that looks like a beefed up version of everyone around him how can I know whether you're using Sir Awesome or just using his figure for the guy that leads the unit?
Like I said the poll is asking about etiquette not RAW.

I don't get what you mean. do I have to ask permission to take a Battlewagon in an Ork list?
Or if I take a Death Company in my blood Angels?
No.
They are a legal, valid army list choice that has been determined by GW to be so.

The Permissive attitude is an odd holdover from when they actual told us they didn't balance them. The game has changed. Keep up, people!

No.

I'd be more than happy to take a broken character,if it matches my chapter only though. I obviously wouldn't take lysander in a salamander's list,or vulkan in a ultramarines list.

I personally love using broken characters in my ultramarines army. It sends a message like: "yes,this is why I play ultarmarines, because we have more special characters than entire armies,yay"

I don't really see anything wrong with calgar. He costs as much as a land raider, and he's only got three wounds (and 4s 4t). A trygon prime is far better than him,for like 30 less points.

skrulnik wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:RAW you don't need permission to play special characters. But that's not what the poll is about, the poll is asking about etiquette. I don't use special characters and I probably wouldn't know who is who from the fluff but I think it would be polite to point out that X figure is someone special. Then my opponent can make an educated guess at what to do about/to that figure. If you just plunk down a figure that looks like a beefed up version of everyone around him how can I know whether you're using Sir Awesome or just using his figure for the guy that leads the unit?
Like I said the poll is asking about etiquette not RAW.

I don't get what you mean. do I have to ask permission to take a Battlewagon in an Ork list?
Or if I take a Death Company in my blood Angels?
No.
They are a legal, valid army list choice that has been determined by GW to be so.

The Permissive attitude is an odd holdover from when they actual told us they didn't balance them. The game has changed. Keep up, people!

^ This.

Special characters are fun & they way they are designed now you need some of them to run certain types of armies such as Deathwing, Ravenwing, Salamanders, etc. They are generally expensive so by including them they reduce the size of your army so there is a trade off - special abilities versus more more units. Sure some are extremely popular, it is what it is.

G

skrulnik wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:RAW you don't need permission to play special characters. But that's not what the poll is about, the poll is asking about etiquette. I don't use special characters and I probably wouldn't know who is who from the fluff but I think it would be polite to point out that X figure is someone special. Then my opponent can make an educated guess at what to do about/to that figure. If you just plunk down a figure that looks like a beefed up version of everyone around him how can I know whether you're using Sir Awesome or just using his figure for the guy that leads the unit?
Like I said the poll is asking about etiquette not RAW.

I don't get what you mean. do I have to ask permission to take a Battlewagon in an Ork list?
Or if I take a Death Company in my blood Angels?
No.
They are a legal, valid army list choice that has been determined by GW to be so.

The Permissive attitude is an odd holdover from when they actual told us they didn't balance them. The game has changed. Keep up, people!

Leo is sating that you don't need permission to play special characters, it's perfectly fine to play them without permission. However, in terms of etiquette, your opponent should KNOW that your special character is a special character. This is especially important if you've converted a special character, for which there is no model, as your opponent has really, no way of knowing that you have a special character. In most cases, it is considered polite to inform your opponent of this, therefore, in terms of etiquette, you should point them out.
But that guy you were playing was probably a sour grapes kinda dude.

^ (skip over this guy)this. I always feel cool using one of the greatest warriors in the galaxy...I think that's how 240 points is supposed to make you feel.

The Nightbringer is completely broken though. He should be an Apoc only character, really.
S10,T8,W5 ? Seriously broke.

Oops,nevermind. You^^ posted before me.

Matters of permission aside, if your opponent can't be bothered to express any curiosity as to what you're placing on the table, it's his own fault when he gets face-pwned by it.

If you're using the special character model, shouldn't that be enough? Conversions I can understand
needing to be up front and explain.

Permission? No, especially not in the case of the newer books where the character can drastically influence your army list. If I'm playing Ork Bikers and suddenly, I can't use Wazdakka, I can wind up with no troop choices.

On terms of etiquette though, you should be able to provide your opponent with your list or at least run through what you have on the table and they should be able to do the same for you.

I don't think anything should require 'permission', but I think that Special Characters should be de-emphasised.

All things in all army lists require your opponent's permission to play, unless you've tied up your opponent in your basement and are holding a gun to their head. You do not need to ask special permission to field a special character though. An opponent agreeing to begin turn 1 after having seen your army list is implicit permission. Etiquette demands you make sure your opponent understands what your army is. Nothing is required beyond that.

As for the OP's opponent, definitely sounds like a case of sour grapes. Or tactical weakness- if they feel they need a special character in order to win.

Personally, I generally don't take special characters unless they are nessecary for reorganizing my FOC. I generally prefer to take more guys with guns than to take one extra-special guy with a page of individual rules.

No.

And if someone tells you that you can't use it in a friendly game, tell them that they can't use ork boyz/guardsmen/aspect warriors/TMCs

Yes, that will make sure the game runs with a swing.

Technically, no, you don't need permission to use special characters if they are a part of the standard codex.

OTOH no-one can be forced to play a game and they can just pick up their models and go home if -- rightly or not -- they decide you are being a dick.

Most arguments arise in games because one guy gets a nasty surprise from some special rule which he didn't know about at the beginning.

Special characters have far more special rules than ordinary units and they are often OTT, so they are more shocking.

It's just polite to declare your extraordinary characters and rules at the start of the game.

Should it be announced Yes, since its only polite to show your opponent your list before the game.

Should you need your opponents permission to play a special character? - No.

Obviously try not to be a dick about it or play dickish opponents.

I'm clear on JJ's stated and GW's real reasons for allowing special characters. I do believe that nothing has changed re 'we balanced them now so you can use them as standard', I regard the statement as Bull Gak. But if I were to play a stranger or at a tourney, I'd bring special characters and expect my opponent to do likewise.

We, ie my group, don't use them as an unwritten standard. If someone is invited to play with the group, then we just mention 'we don't use special characters' unless we're having a special characters game. Because sometimes we like to try them out with their wacky rules and powers. I believe the codices are, usually, far better balanced without them.

I don't know many of my friends to use special characters, with the exception of SM players - pedro, vulcan etc.

Frankly use them if you wan't don't if you don't most seem overcoasted to me