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well after the "Imperium of Man vs. Star Wars galactic Empire: Ground War only" debate I felt like I had to do this after mentioning it on page 11


Who wins? Scenario: massed planetary engagements. neither side controls spaceways effectively and convoys can ferry in troops/supplies (and occasionally blow the hell out of opposing forces). Battlefield is strictly biosphere level-air and land. (At the beginning of course )

Tyranid hive fleets vs. Galactic Empire (from Clone Wars to Jedi Returns for reference)
Tyranid hive fleets... not sure how I can expand, perhaps by saying on large scale invasion
GE-clone forces
This can be multiple planet or a single planet

I am, for fairness, going to say that the GE initially controls the planet but it is a standard planet not a military world but it does have a sort of standard present garrison.

GE.
***galaxy wide empire.
***absolutely massive production levels.
***technology at or superior to Imperium.
Notes
-Massive production of droids (quadrillions) in clone wars indicates similar production capacity in light of a galaxy ending fight.
-Hyperspace jumping technology, allows very quick movement of men and material. This logistics train appears galaxy wide and multiple faster than the Nids-allowing them to be the first with the most.
-Fast transport of advanced troops. Troops are equipped with skimmer attack transports and AT AT transports as standard.
-If Nids start to gain a toehold Death Star will start laying waste to Nid capial ships or occupied planets.
-Rule of Cool. Darth Vader will not tolerate anyone getting uppity in the 'who's the baddest mofo of all time' department. He finds their lack of faith disturbing.

Tyrandis

1. plastic armor doesn't help

2. deathstar would most likely be easily infested do to its size and many dark pits

3. most imperial planets don't seem to have the load of anti air and orbital defences to even slow a tyranid invasion

Nids...

unlimited numbers.

will rapidly evolove to be more resistant to blaster weapons.


Nids ability to absorb DNA of prey species will prove a massive advantage.

if the Nids eat the Ewoks first the GE is DEAD. they will get roflpwnd by little furry rippers.

if the Nids eat wookies they will have Hairy Carnifexs with massive muscles.

the Nids will eat Gundarks and become even stronger.

now the Empire could sabotage the Nids efforts if the diver the Nids to Nal Hutta. the nids will become slime bags of doom.

Ewoks... are you kidding? The nids wouldn't stand a chance.

'nids. Possibly infinite numbers. They'll cut through Storm Troopers just as easily as they do Guardsmen. The Death Star will become a massive sphereical version of Space Hulk. The GE will soon become outnumbered by massive amounts and a few guys who shoot lightning from their fingers would do very, very little in order to stop it.

Valk

P.S: I know that the Jedi have other abilities, rather than just "shooting lightning", so don't point that out.

Palpaitine would scream as the Hive Mind crawled into his mind XD

The Imperator wrote:Tyrandis

1. plastic armor doesn't help

2. deathstar would most likely be easily infested do to its size and many dark pits

3. most imperial planets don't seem to have the load of anti air and orbital defences to even slow a tyranid invasion

1. Incorrect, ST armor is not plastic, it is hardened ceramic. Would help as much as a marines armor.

2. Kinda hard to land on the DS with it operational. Doubt nids would be able to infiltrate it.

3. Incorrect. Most Imperial plants have plenty of AA, and Massive orbital defenses, Golan II defense platform among others, not to mention planetary shields that block both energy weapons and ballistic weapons. Nids would not be able to land significant numbers once the shields went up, and they are not smart enough to attack military bases and/or shield generators first.

That being said, I would have to give this to the nids. based on the OP. Nids already on the ground.
The overridding numbers they bring, with the speed of their assaults, would bring the fist few planets to their knees quickly.

If it was a protracted war, I would give it to the GE, they would develop a viral weapon. Any planet that is infested would be wiped out.
If the GE could not develop a viral weapon in time Palpatine would just order the planet destroyed from orbit, ever by the fleet of a Death star.

Nids vs Vong... THAT would be a good fight.
Nids vs Aliens... brutal.

Just one little side note (because I'm a perv who likes to throw stinkbombs into melees and then dodge out :-p)
I should have remebered sooner, BUT:

The bulk of Imperial groundforces is NOT made up of Stormtroopers, but of Imperial Army Grunts. This gives the GE a lot of additional boots on the ground but also a bulk of troops that is much weaker and lightly equipped.
Please do also note that the Bulk of all Armor of whatever kind will be manned by the Army, not the Stormies. Stormies are like marines*, they don't get the biggest dakka.

Have fun with this thread guys! (ducks out)


* Real World, not Space, doomed or otherwise

tough call, if the nids are on the ground already i'd say they'd win. but if they are still in the process of landing troops.... i give the win to the empire

God forbid that Genestealers get their hands on Sith or Jedi DNA and become "one with the force." Then they will just "will" the weak-minded Stormtroopers (because we have all seen how they are easily willed by the wave of the hand...lol) to lower the force field of the DS to let the rest of the 'nids in.
An alternative method for them is to have the Parasite of Mortrex infest some of the billions of Stormtroopers that come in and out of the DS and begin to infest from the inside.
And on my final note, if a handful of rebels including a farm boy with a light saber can bust down the doors of the DS, I'm sure the infinite number of 'nids could dissolve any trace that the Empire ever existed. Because, let's be honest, the occupants of the 41st millenium have used every piece of technology to try to keep the 'nids back, and nothing has worked. They just keep coming, and coming, and coming....

Tyranids, Storm Troopers, no items, final destination...

I think storm troopers have a fair chance, they have pretty ridiculous numbers, tyranid ability to regrow dead creatures by recycling them would win versus just about everything.

One plus for the GE - not even Storm Troopers could miss when firing at a Tyranid swarm!

It really depends if we're talking about a tendril like the one that hit Macragge, or the full bulk of a Hive Fleet. Even the Ultramarines managed to ward off a tendril, so I'd give that fight to the GE.

However, a full Hive Fleet is larger than hundreds of stars. It's length is measured on a galactic scale, and the condensed gravitational pull of that many 'nids alone could destroy solar systems. Look at the galactic map in the Eldar codex to see an example of the full size of the Hive Fleets - they're about a fifth the size of the entire galaxy!

A few Factors I would like to examine:

Deathstars: Maximum 2, if you discount the rebels actions. If the 'Nides spread out, the GE will be unable to destroy every infected planet. Also, easily neatralized by a few spods of Genestealers.

Viral Weapons: Will inflict heavy damage, until 'Nids addapt.

Vader and Palpatine: Like the Deathstars, there are only 2 of them, and they cannot be everywhere. Also, Shadow in the Force.

AT-AT's: Very Intimidating. However, they tend to fall over when a Ticked-Off Carnifex rips a leg off them.

I am going to have to agree with crazy here, they would rip apart the GE, not because they are more advanced, but because their number are unbelieve and they do not retreat or turn back, they just keep coming.

so before this goes any further I think I am going to have to change something here. This is of course to be fair. All tyranid fleets vs the entire GE or scenario stated in op but with it being 1 hive fleet

just thought I had to make it a little more fair

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:A few Factors I would like to examine:

Deathstars: Maximum 2, if you discount the rebels actions. If the 'Nides spread out, the GE will be unable to destroy every infected planet. Also, easily neatralized by a few spods of Genestealers.

Viral Weapons: Will inflict heavy damage, until 'Nids addapt.

Vader and Palpatine: Like the Deathstars, there are only 2 of them, and they cannot be everywhere. Also, Shadow in the Force.

AT-AT's: Very Intimidating. However, they tend to fall over when a Ticked-Off Carnifex rips a leg off them.

Death stars=3 The prototype in the maw cluster.
Viral weapons can be modified, adaption is not a valid point IMO.
Vader and Palp: are the sith lords... they had plenty of force users that were not "Sith"
'Fex comes p to the ankle of a AT-AT... squished bug.
The nids bio titan... that is a different story. (sorry can't remember the name)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rowan341 wrote:so before this goes any further I think I am going to have to change something here. This is of course to be fair. All tyranid fleets vs the entire GE or scenario stated in op but with it being 1 hive fleet

just thought I had to make it a little more fair

OP said ground war. Fleets are irrelevant.

Heirophant, Heirodule, Haridian. which one?

big titan? small titan? big flying titan?

Hirophant=Big titan

Hirodule=Small titan

Haridan=flying titan

In space Nids would lose horribly since their FTL would screw them,when their FTL is activated it takes years or months to reach a system and after they get close to system they must go by sub-light speed which makes them an easy target for the GE.
Nids simply lose.
On the ground things are different,I propose a stalemate.

and they are not smart enough to attack military bases and/or shield generators first.

Thats a very wrong statement.

Marneus Calgar said
"To think the Tyrandis are mindless beasts is a grave mistake. When you fight Tyranids you face not only those before you on the battlefield, but the untold thousands which seek to surround you, which attack your supporting units and destroy your supply likes in perfect synchronicity. these aliens have shown ecidence of both tactics and strategy that speaks of a far worse threat than that posed by a mere beast."

Ill say it again, Marneus Calgar said that. A tactical genius, who was beaten down, not only physically but also tactically.

Hive Tyrants
are incredibly intelligent and completely self aware. . . and can even learn from their mistakes. this goes some way to explain why tyranids can rarely be defeated twice.

and don't forget the Swarmlord.

Rube wrote:
It really depends if we're talking about a tendril like the one that hit Macragge, or the full bulk of a Hive Fleet. Even the Ultramarines managed to ward off a tendril, so I'd give that fight to the GE.

Barely, and their are still splinters from that.

I'd say nids win because even when in space they wouldn't bother going after the ships themselves first they would simply take a world at a time and the GE's space fleet would slowly get smaller and after a point wouldn't be able to be replenished.

rowan341 wrote:I'd say nids win because even when in space they wouldn't bother going after the ships themselves first they would simply take a world at a time and the GE's space fleet would slowly get smaller and after a point wouldn't be able to be replenished.

GE can bombard them from long range and since Shadow in the Warp doesn't work against Hyperspace engine the GE fleet can just evade Nids.

yes evade the entire Tyranid swarm that is of an indeterminable size. I think there may be a few problems especially concerning that the nids can easily split up for multiple attack directions

rowan341 wrote:yes evade the entire Tyranid swarm that is of an indeterminable size. I think there may be a few problems especially concerning that the nids can easily split up for multiple attack directions

Yes,but GE ship can just jump to a very far place thus evading Nids(this comes handy when Tyranids are closing onto you,you just jump to the safety and use hit and run tactics).

Havoc13 wrote:Viral weapons can be modified, adaption is not a valid point IMO

Tyranid codex disagrees. That has been tried.

Kirsanth your avatar was perfect to go with your comment just then

@IvanTih: yes they CAN jump very far away but that will meant they just loose their planets all the quicker

IvanTih wrote:

rowan341 wrote:I'd say nids win because even when in space they wouldn't bother going after the ships themselves first they would simply take a world at a time and the GE's space fleet would slowly get smaller and after a point wouldn't be able to be replenished.

GE can bombard them from long range and since Shadow in the Warp doesn't work against Hyperspace engine the GE fleet can just evade Nids.

Why would they bother? They would just use Intidictors and have a fleet of Star destroyers waiting. Again it is ground war only.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

kirsanth wrote:

Havoc13 wrote:Viral weapons can be modified, adaption is not a valid point IMO

Tyranid codex disagrees. That has been tried.

Uhh yeah by the IoM, which has NO inovation, and NO new research. Whereas the GE has massive amounts of both.

The Imperium does has research its just that they aren't moving that fast. Like that of a slowed slug.

Asherian Command wrote:The Imperium does has research its just that they aren't moving that fast. Like that of a slowed slug.

Sigged.