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Also insects are the fastest evolving things in reality too and unless you want to insert the ICP gene into storm troopers then the nids can adapt.

rowan341 wrote:Also insects are the fastest evolving things in reality too and unless you want to insert the ICP gene into storm troopers then the nids can adapt.

Correction. Virus/Bacteria are the fastest.

Ok fine I didn't put bacteria into the equation mainly because bacteria is unlikely to eat anyone AND DON'T SAY NURGLINGS

rowan341 wrote:Ok fine I didn't put bacteria into the equation mainly because bacteria is unlikely to eat anyone AND DON'T SAY NURGLINGS

OMNOMNOMNOM!
Tyranids really are like bacteria.

I would have to say, with regards to the AT-AT vs Carnifex, yeah, the AT-AT would probably squish the fex. The one standing next to it, however...

kirsanth wrote:

Havoc13 wrote:Viral weapons can be modified, adaption is not a valid point IMO

Tyranid codex disagrees. That has been tried.

this is true.


the Ordo Xeno has decided that Bioligical based weapons are not to be used against tyranids as they will simply adapt to the Virus and begin to use it against those who fired it in the first place.

its also why Hellfire shells don't contain Virus's any more, they contain an Acid(which can't be incorperated into the Nid biology as easily as a virus) that dissolves cellular walls and living tissue.

it's also why Virus bombs arn't used against nids.








I don't think Intradictor ships would work against Nid ships as their FTL is based on psychic acceleration.

I think these Threads have rigged titles, you can't have Ground wars in either of these universes without Space ships somewhere in the equation.

the Empire would be very stupid to run away and leave planets behind. Nid fleets get stronger with each one they eat.

GEmpire ships don't have long ranged(5,000+ Kilometers) space bound weapons to engage the Nid fleets at a distance, the nids want to be close to your ships.(another reason the IoM's ships are supierior to the GE ships, super long ranged weapons)

Death Star super lasers shouldn't be brought into the equation. only the 2nd Death star and the Eclipse could target starships and the Rate of Fire is poor. Tyranids would evolve small ships to dissapate or absorb the laser(in Warriors of Ultramar they evolve things to absorb Nova cannon blasts)



Genestealers would wreack havoc on planets prior to the tyranid advance. because of the GEs advanced FTL travel they would spread accross the Empire much faster then they do in the IoM. Planets would be falling to Genestealer cults at a rate almost unheard of.

I did say at the bottom of page one that I have changed it to all Tyranid hives v the total of galactic empire (I meant ot put about including ships but don't know if I did or not) or 1 hive fleet 1 GE world atmospheric only.

problem is that subjects are limited to a number of letters so don't know what I could change it to

GE would win hands down. Just because you only heard of the death stars doesnt mean thats their only superweapons...
There were World Devastators, the Eye of Palpatine, the Resonance Torpedo Launcher, the Sun Crusher, the Eclipse-class super start destroyer (giant star destroyer with a death star gun, wich there were at least 2 known of these), Centerpoint Station, Gravity Gun, the Conquerer. The list goes on and on and on, and these were just ones that were ACTIVE during the empires rise/fall. All of these, except for possibly the Eye of Palpatine, could destroy at LEAST a planet, if not a sun, if not more. Most where mobile, some where long range.

The GE would win, hands down.

The Tyranid don't live on planets, they live in space. The use of the many planet-destroying weapons the GE has would largely be limited to blowing up their own worlds to deny the 'Nids resources. This is the exact same tactic the Imperium has employed, and it hasn't helped them beat the Tyranids hands down.

On the other hand, Palpatine is going to be doing more than force-choking Carnifex that get in this way. During the battle of Endor, the only reason the Rebels managed to win the space battle was because Palpatine died. They had been losing badly before this, as Palpatine was guiding his admirals using the Force to give them perfect battlefield awareness and tactically acuity. That'll count for something in a space battle against the Hive.

Rube - if they get the DS-class lasers to destroy the giant HIive Ships which forms the bulk of the hive mind (norn queen somewhere in there...) that WOULD be a critical hit. However as was pointed out they seem to develop quite effective offensive and defensive bioships against at least IoM technology.

You cant compare nids to some other force without including the space-bound part of the hive. As without a hive fleet the swarm at ground level lose focus and revert back to their basic natures. With that in regard I'd say nids would win if they were against a fully fledged Hive fleet.

Ewok and Jar jar biomass mmmmm

There are a lot more hive ships that you're factoring in and the norn queen is "suspected" to be the largest tyranid organism. The problem the GE would have is the sheer numbers they would have to fight

I'm not saying it is a one-shot deal, however target priority tends to be biggest = gets shot first. In addition if the laser can destroy a planet in <10 seconds, whcih is about 5000km of solid matter, going through a few ships on the way seems possible - i.e. each shot can kill, or heavily disable, more than one "big" ship.

except Super lasers take a while to recharge.

those on the DS could recharge every few minutes, but those on other ships could take far longer as the power reactor was smaller.

also Hive fleets usually consist of Hundereds of Hive ships, each with a Norn queen onboard. splinter fleets consist of a few dozen.

a Super laser ship might be able to kill a splinter fleet, but not a Hive fleet proper.


there is no way the GE would have enough super laser platforms to stop every splinter fleet and if they stopped the actual hive fleet(by some miracle) they would simply create hundreds of splinter fleets which would take thousands of years to eradicate(and Genestealers would become a fact of life for every planet)


and Impierial fleets would likely only be able to stem the tide if they were in huge numbers. GE laser tech can only target ships at distances of a few hundred kilometers. Nid ships can fire Bioplasma at ranges of a couple of thousand kilometers and once they are up close they begin to crack open ships in CC.

Grey Templar wrote:
I don't think Interdictor ships would work against Nid ships as their FTL is based on psychic acceleration.

That's actually wrong now. The new Tyranid codex talks about a kind of Tyrannic Tugboat(the Narvhal) that utilizes a planet's gravity to accelerate the Hive Fleets' ships to where they can actually utilize a form of FTL. There's a reason Hive Fleets take decades to advance the closer they get to planets. The gravity fields screw with the Narvhals, which are how they can traverse larger distances faster. A few well-placed Interdictors or the Empire's Grav-Mines(hyperspace deployed nuclear devices that detect gravity signatures in hyperspace, yank both the mine AND the target out and then blow them to smithereens)would be a fantastic way to slow and even damage a transitory Hive Fleet.

the Empire would be very stupid to run away and leave planets behind. Nid fleets get stronger with each one they eat.

The Empire also has superweapons such as the Sun Crusher, which can destroy an entire solar system, the World Eaters which strip planets bare of biological material(hrmh. I wonder if you could maybe do this to screw over the Tyranids when you know you need to retreat...)

GEmpire ships don't have long ranged(5,000+ Kilometers) space bound weapons to engage the Nid fleets at a distance, the nids want to be close to your ships.(another reason the IoM's ships are superior to the GE ships, super long ranged weapons)

Actually, most SW ships can engage ships at very long distances. We just don't see it in the movies due to the fact that all the engagements we really see are close to planets--which restricts the tactical options that most SW styled ships have with their FTL(which is commonly used in the SWEU for precision jumps, tactical retreats, etc) to gain range if they need it.

Death Star superlasers shouldn't be brought into the equation. only the 2nd Death star and the Eclipse could target starships and the rate of fire is poor. Tyranids would evolve small ships to dissipate or absorb the laser(in Warriors of Ultramar they evolve things to absorb Nova cannon blasts)

If we're discounting the Death Star's superlaser, that's ridiculous. The Death Stars weren't just a superlaser.
They carried entire fighter wings, bomber wings, assault shuttles, AT-ATs, AT-STs, everything you could need for subjugating a world that capitulates rather than resists.

Genestealers would wreak havoc on planets prior to the Tyranid advance. because of the GEs advanced FTL travel they would spread across the Empire much faster then they do in the IoM. Planets would be falling to Genestealer cults at a rate almost unheard of.

Genestealers might wreak a bit of havoc, but it's worth noting that the Empire's process of inspecting ships seems to be far, far more thorough than the Imperium's.

Plus, they don't have to worry about random things just suddenly popping out of Hyperspace like Space Hulks do from the Warp. Once things go in, they don't come out--unless the pilot actually does it. Otherwise, you end up suddenly crossing through a sun's gravity field and get splattered in hyperspace.

And yet stealers seem to like cutting things like wire and the chances are the pilot would head to somewhere they could get help upon finding out that his crew were disappearing

Crew don't dissapear, they become infected.

especially in a universe that isn't as Xenophobic as the IoM the Genestealers would be able to propagate even quicker.



I don't really think that Hyperspace is true FTL travel(as in Mass to energy conversion for a physical displacement of over 326,000 Miles per second). i think they operate on the same principal as the eldar Webway, both being in the physical universe(hence why they can collide with physical objects) and in an alternate demension. the result is a FTL travel.

Intradictors operate(IIRC) by disabling all Hyperdrives within a certain physical radius. they might be able to detect Nid fleets, but i doubt they would be able to slow them down from going the speed they are at.

Grav mines would work, but i think the GE would never be able to stop them completely with mines. also the nids would evolve some why of detecting the mines and either send a sacrfice organisim to get rid of the mine or they would evolve a resistance to the explosion.

there is also the Gravity signiture of the hive fleet itself(someone mentioned it earlier) that is so large it can distort planets and stars themselves. that would make getting close to a Hive fleet dangerous.


@Kanluwen:

don't make the DS super laser out to be more powerful then it actually is. it is still a laser(how a beam of light can cause a planets core to explode is beyond physics) and as such could be absorbed, disappated, or reflected.

my view on the Super laser is that it is a beam of laser light that bores a hole to the planets core and an amount of Anti-matter is shot down the Laser beam until it reacher the target and then the laser beam is turned off allowing the Anti-matter to contact real matter, resulting in a complete Mass to energy transformation(Antimatter=-1, Energy=0, Matter=1. 1 + -1 =0) and the energy from the conversion is enough to blast the planet apart.

O, and if the Nids are close enough to the DS that the Tie fighters and bombers are deployed the DS is good as gone.

Sun Crusher: the IoM has or has had the ability to extinguish stars. the absense of a gravity well would simply make the Nids head for the next star(at a faster rate due to the absence of gravity to slow the Narvhals down)

World Eaters: like Exterminatus, but slower and can't be fired at the nids inside torpedos.

i have never read any SW books where they were engaging at distances even close to what happens in 40k(granted i haven't read many). most 40k ships are 2-3 times larger then most GE ships and they are nearly always out of visual range of each other.
Most jumps i have seen in films and books are to get really close to your enemy or run to the nearest friendly system.



as to the Anti-air required to shoot down the Nids from landing on a planet. the GE mostly faces fighters, bombers and landing shuttles(IE. Large targets) Nids come down in swarms of man sized gribblies(gargoyles)

IoM AA is much better(servitor manned autocannon turrets that have a RoF of several thousand rounds a minute), but even it can only protect small areas(like cities and hives) from gargoyle swarms.

also i doubt GE AA could even target spore pods as they came down in their thousands if not hundreds of thousands.



on a final note IMHO the relative lack of expierence the GE has with warfare will be their downfall.

the IoM is having trouble stopping the Nids and they have had 10,000 years of expierence fighting in all manner of warfare from space to ground battles against thousands of different alien species.

the GE only existed for a few decades and the Republic before it only stood for a thousand years and records before that are sketchy at best and they only had a few real threats to their continued existance. you really think they would stand a chancem against the great Devourer?

These threads amuse me, with how much people get upset when they find out their version of the imaginary weaponry is stronger or weaker then previously thought by said person, and how you equate a movie to actuality in a ficticious world. According to the nids players nothing can ever stop the nids period. According the the GE theres no way they could lose. A few of you are trying to rationalize and for this i applaud you. However, it stands to fact, that since both being imaginary, there truly are NO facts to support either claim. Books of these magnitudes are written by many authors, movies made by producers, watched by people amazed at explosions and fancy lighting. You cannot truly rationalize this, and as such, attacking someone elses post is just silly. If one person wants to think the deathstar laser is XXXX power but someone else wants to think it is X power, how do you differentiate? Trying to rationalize your choices with broken, half explained so called "facts" well... thats why i read these. Keep em coming, i'll brb, going to go get more popcorn and mountain dew.

Skip next two posts internet had a seizure and triple posted

see below.

edited for a crappy internet that made a triple post

Tyranids would win , endless numbears would eventully destroy the death star.

1)Interdictors have nothing whatsoever to do with "disabling" hyperdrives. If you want to get very very simplistic about it, then yes--they do "disable" the hyperdrives, but the Interdictors are more to prevent hyperspace transit in the first place.

They exert a gravity well that yanks anything in hyperspace out into subspace, wherein the standard Imperial tactics are usually: gank it with a tractor beam and hold it still while the escorting Victory or Imperial class Star Destroyers pound it with broadsides of concussion missiles, proton torpedos, ion cannons, and turbolasers.

2)The Death Star's "superlaser", despite what you may think is a pretty big deal. It rips through the shielding on capital ships, planetary defense shields, etc. All of which are made to withstand sustained bombardments lasting for days if not MONTHS(in the case of planetary defense shields). The station is not defenseless without fighters and bombers being deployed--it has defensive batteries situated along the equator and embedded in the hull. And not with dinky anti-fighter weaponry alone either. Things used to blow away capital ships.

The Sun Crusher doesn't "extinguish" stars, by the by. It causes them to go supernova in a manner of hours. Which completely y'know...obliterates all the planets in that solar system, rendering all the resources unusable.

World Eaters, again, aren't meant to be an Exterminatus. They completely strip the world of any usable resources--but store them for processing and usage by the Empire.

3) The ships have longer ranged weaponry in addition to the standard broadsides of turbolaser/ion cannon. Most capital class ships are bristling with concussion missile tubes, proton torpedo launchers, etc. They use those in salvos or for a one-two combination with ion cannons.

However, they're not used often in closer ranges simply because shields have to be dropped to use them...which is a Bad Idea.

4) You don't need AA when you have planetary shields that completely disintegrate any organic material that comes into contact with them. However, most worlds in the GE do have defensive batteries and defensive stations in orbit. Anything smaller than a Corvette, however, is dealt with by the planet's fighter wings.

5) You're forgetting that the vast majority of the GE's "elite" soldiers are veterans of the Clone Wars.

if anything it would be Genestealers who destroyed the DS.

they would infiltrate and set up a Cult on the DS and would take it over and start blowing up the GE's ships.

Kanluwen wrote:1)Interdictors have nothing whatsoever to do with "disabling" hyperdrives. If you want to get very very simplistic about it, then yes--they do "disable" the hyperdrives, but the Interdictors are more to prevent hyperspace transit in the first place.

They exert a gravity well that yanks anything in hyperspace out into subspace, wherein the standard Imperial tactics are usually: gank it with a tractor beam and hold it still while the escorting Victory or Imperial class Star Destroyers pound it with broadsides of concussion missiles, proton torpedos, ion cannons, and turbolasers.

Except that the gravity well ITSELF doesn't actually pull the ship out of hyperspace; it's own safety mechanisms do that.

The interdictor projects a cone-shaped gravitational "shadow" which mimics the gravity well of a planet or star, at least to the sensors of ships in hyperspace. The ship's computer detects that it's about to hit a planet, spazzes out and drops the ship into realspace, where the Imperial fleet that's waiting tractors it and pounds the gak out of it.

That being so, Interdictors would do exactly zilch to Nid fleets, because their working is dependent upon the specifics of Star Wars hyperspace technology, which the Nids don't use. So the Empire sets up their Interdictors, clears a kill zone, turns on the field, and then watches, mouths agape, as the Nids blow past them without slowing down and chow down on the nearest planet.

Planetary shields mean squat. Look at what the Yuzan Vong did to Coruscant. Drop a pile of expendable ships (say, civilian transports crewed by genestealer cultists) into the shields, and they will go down. If there is one thing the Gribblies are good at, it's chucking expendable units at stuff.

Im still waiting for an Ewok Jedi..

BeRzErKeR wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:1)Interdictors have nothing whatsoever to do with "disabling" hyperdrives. If you want to get very very simplistic about it, then yes--they do "disable" the hyperdrives, but the Interdictors are more to prevent hyperspace transit in the first place.

They exert a gravity well that yanks anything in hyperspace out into subspace, wherein the standard Imperial tactics are usually: gank it with a tractor beam and hold it still while the escorting Victory or Imperial class Star Destroyers pound it with broadsides of concussion missiles, proton torpedos, ion cannons, and turbolasers.

Except that the gravity well ITSELF doesn't actually pull the ship out of hyperspace; it's own safety mechanisms do that.

The interdictor projects a cone-shaped gravitational "shadow" which mimics the gravity well of a planet or star, at least to the sensors of ships in hyperspace. The ship's computer detects that it's about to hit a planet, spazzes out and drops the ship into realspace, where the Imperial fleet that's waiting tractors it and pounds the gak out of it.

That being so, Interdictors would do exactly zilch to Nid fleets, because their working is dependent upon the specifics of Star Wars hyperspace technology, which the Nids don't use. So the Empire sets up their Interdictors, clears a kill zone, turns on the field, and then watches, mouths agape, as the Nids blow past them without slowing down and chow down on the nearest planet.

I sincerely doubt that, since the "new" way Tyranids work is by harnessing a planet's gravity field to "pull" themselves towards it at FTL speeds. It doesn't work the closer they get to gravity fields--which Interdictors generate.

the thing is, Intradictors don't create a planet sized Gravity field, they mimic one(IIRC) and fool a Ships hyperdrive into pulling out.

Nids will likely be able to detect that that gravity field wasn't there before and the will learn what it means and will avoid them.

if Intradictors actually created a real gravity field as powerful as a Planet all the GE ships nearby would be pulled towards the Intradictor and would crash.

Or more likely they just won't detect the fake gravity field

Or even more likely the Nids are stopped in the middle of nowhere and annihilated by the GE fleet that are waiting for them.