Sisters of Battle

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**Melissia**

Since the other thread is probably ages old by now and was off topic anyway:

From StraightSilver, in a conversation he had with Jes Goodwin

Hiya,

Yes the problem with the Sisters of Battle has been the cloth robe sleeves on the under side of their arms, their hair and also the script work on their shoulders.

The problem with the robes on their arms is that it can only be sculpted flowing in one direction, which means posing can be a problem.

This isn't such an issue with Sisters armed with Bolt Guns as the pose will be pretty much set, but when you get things like Seraphim or models armed with close combat weapons you would get a very limited number of poses. This is because if you had the arm held up high the robes may stick out in a gravity defying way, which would look very unnatural.

The hair is essentially the same thing. They want the new models to be much more dynamic, which would mean their hair would not be as static as the previous Sisters of Battle miniatures. This poses problems with posing as the hair and robes need to flow in the same direction, which again limits the amount of poses possible (sorry for the over use of the word pose there - couldn't think of another on! ).

The bit I didn't quite get the gist of was the shoulder plates. He said they wanted embossed and rolling scriptwork on the shoulder plates, and the way it was curving around the plates was presenting problems. I'm not sure in all honesty what that meant but it may be similar to the problems mentioned above or it might be the way the model is cast. It might be the fact that you are very limited in undercuts on a tool when producing plastic miniatures ( by tool I mean mold, but plastic molds are known as tools).

He did stress that they really wanted to crack on with Sisters, but that they had been causing them technical difficulties for quite some time.

However he said that the process of creating the Dark Eldar has really pushed the limits of what they can do in plastic, and has taught them a huge amount.

Many of the problems mentioned above (hair, robes etc) were the same for the Dark Eldar, but they learnt how to manage it and would now like to take those lessons back to the Sisters.

Something else that was interesting was that he said the way he has always worked up until now was to alternate between Space Marines and something else.

For example Space Marines, Tyranids, Space Marines, Eldar, Space Marines, Dark Eldar etc.

However he said quite explicitly that he wouldn't be working on Space Marines after Dark Eldar. This was because he feels he has handed them on to other sculptors now and wanted to do something else, but of course it depended on what GW wanted him to do next.

He also categorically stated that he wouldn't be working on any Warhammer models from now on, although admittedly he hasn't done so for a long time.

So this is pure speculation on my part (so please don't take it as read as I am just thinking aloud - nothing was confirmed), but if he isn't working on Fantasy next then he will be working on something 40K.

It won't be Marines and Tyranids have been updated recently.

Speculatively that only really leaves CraftWorld Eldar or Sisters next.

He did say that working on Dark Eldar had reignited his enthusiasm for Craft World Eldar, and that he wanted to revisit the range so he could implement a lot of the lessons they learned with Dark Eldar and we know that he sculpted the Craft World Eldar Jetbikes and the Dark Eldar Reaver Jetbikes simultaneously so Eldar is a possibility.

But if his normal working process is Power Armour, Xenos, Power Armour, something else etc and he has just released Dark Eldar then it follows that Sisters ought to be next.

Now for the bad news. He told me that after working on Dark Eldar solidly for more than 4 years (as well as other projects) he was already exhausted. However there was still more work to do on the Dark Eldar Range and he would be working on them until June 2011 so that 90% of the range could be released by then.

He then said that he would be taking a long rest before starting any other projects. I am not sure how long a rest that would be but I would suspect at least a couple of months.

Jes isn't just a sculptor, he is also the head of the GW plastics department, and is involved in the training of staff and development of new tecnology.

It may be that when he takes a break from sculpting he concentrates on this area of his job.

Either way this means that he wouldn't be starting a new project until at the earliest July/August 2011.

It sounds like R and D has already begun on the Sisters, and if they have learnt a great deal during the Dark Eldar development and can put this into practice then they shouldn't take too long, but I would guess that we wouldn't see them at the very earliest until Quarter 1 2012, but more realistically later that year.

Again this is just my speculation based on the conversation I had with Jes.

They are most definitely working on Sisters, but it may be a while before we see them.

Edit: Sorry, I just realised I may have repeated a lot of this earlier in the thread, I had lost track of where I had posted.

So assuming they're right about Jes taking a break until mid next year (But somehow that doesn't necessarily make sense, given that they're having problems with the models now?), next year might have only a single Imperial codex (with Grey Knights), as Necrons and Tau are the only ones which have had any real rumors about them aside from Sisters.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
In response to my post on the BoLS Lounge:

Melissia wrote:I think he might have already taken his break, after all he's working on the models or else he wouldn't have had problems with them to begin with, right?

Hiya,

Well he told me that he would be working solidly on Dark Eldar until June 2011.

They have 4 plastic kits to release for Dark Eldar next year, as well as metal figures and then possibly some of the character models.

Obviously he won't be doing all the work on his own as Juan Diaz is also doing some of the models.

He did say that they are on the final push but still have a lot of things to do.

One of which was the Haemonculi passengers for the raider. The Wyches will be included with the Venom and can be used on the raider, but they didn't know yet how to do the Haemonculi. It wasn't so much a problem of creating them, just what to release them with. My guess would be with the Talos.

However he was confident he could take a break from June 2011 onwards as this is when they plan to stop work on the Dark Eldar.

The Sisters of battle have been in "design hell" since before the dark Eldar, so at least 4-5 years.

They have started the initial planning but it was the aspects mentioned earlier that had caused them to be put on hold.

The implication was that these problems may have now been resolved with the dark Eldar Wyches, as a lot of these problems were exactly the same for them.

However with next year's 40K schedule already full up and with Jes wanting a break from a new range I would say thay are at least a year off.

If rumours are correct we have Grey Knights Quarter 1, Flyers expansion Quarter 2 and Tau/Necrons (my money is on Tau as I know they have already completed many of the new plastics and that Necrons are getting the Dark Eldar treatment. In other words a rewrite which will take a while) in Quarter 4.

This doesn't rule out another 40K release next year, I just got the impression that it wouldn't be Sisters.

**TBD**

Basically the message this thread is based on makes it's title a bit obsolete at the same time: it looks like there will not be anything new SOB-related anytime soon.

Sisters, IMO of course, would be better suited as an incorporated part of a new Inquisition codex instead of an army on their own. Aside from the odd historical precedence of an army made up entirely of screaming women (there is none of significance as far as I know) there still are the lingering doubts about this particular niche army being a good investment for GW. Some people with certain fetishes will be eager for this one, but the other armies mentioned all have far greater money-making potential with many more people. I am really convinced of that, so I wouldn't be surprised if these end up going down the road of the Dark Eldar, in the old "yes, they are really coming soon, really" sense of the way.

**Melissia**

TBD wrote:Basically the message this thread is based on makes it a bit obsolete at the same time: it looks like there will not be anything new SOB-related anytime soon.

Sisters, IMO of course, would be better suited as an incorporated part of a new Inquisition codex instead of an army on their own.

No, they'd be better off like they were in second edition-- the army of the Ecclesiarchy, with the Adepta Sororitas and Frateris Militia each expanded upon to provide a full codex. It has nothing to do with fetish, but rather, it represents the grimdarkness of 40k and the Imperium as a whole, and gives a chance for players to take on the elite human army as opposed to simply the ragtag servants of an Inquisitor.

Also, this thread isn't any more obsolete tahn any other codex thread aside from Grey Knights. GW doesn't often release this sort of information these adys.

**TBD**

I have never heard anything other than that they were and always have been the worst selling 40K army out there, so whether or not they would be better off like that depends on the point of view I guess.

For someone with an obsession with them they clearly would be, but for a money-making company like GW they likely wouldn't be the wisest investment.

**H.B.M.C.**

Oh honestly...

**Melissia**

TBD wrote:I have never heard anything other than that they were and always have been the worst selling 40K army out there

I haven't heard this from any official source.

But even then... Sisters of Battle were released at the tail end of second edition. So basically shortly after they were released, third edition came along and their codex couldn't be used. Then the Witch Hunters codex was released at the tail end of third edition, and people probably expected the same-- besides, GW was pushing Inquisitors at the time, not Sisters. And there has been almost nothing since third edition, almost no fluff mentions, almost no BL books (And only one thus far where Sisters are the protagonists, though another one is coming soon IIRC), and so on.

The fact that they're all-metal, and the models are leftovers from second edition does not help their sales. Basically, it's impossible to actually argue the Sisters sell so poorly because the concept itself is disliked, as it's almost a perfect storm so to speak of instances that would keep people from buying into the army. Also means it's hard to argue, given what we know anyway (I'm sure GW has their own demographics studies), to argue the other side, either-- but at least I can say that Sisters are beaten out only by Thunderhawks when it comes to requests for plastic models.

**andrewm9**

TBD wrote:I have never heard anything other than that they were and always have been the worst selling 40K army out there, so whether or not they would be better off like that depends on the point of view I guess.

For someone with an obsession with them they clearly would be, but for a money-making company like GW they likely wouldn't be the wisest investment.

They might sell badly becuase they are supported badly. If Space Marines were treated the same way Sisters were I bet you they wouldn't sell like they do. We'll never know though becuase it didn't happen. Sisters have had no new models in 6 years and most of their models were made in 1997. So no virtually no new models in 13 years except 2 vehicles, 2 special characters, and 1 HQ and maybe 1 infantry model which are all metal with next to no customisability. They also have very few codex options. Its not hard to think they might sell less with seeing that. Everybody who's been playing them has had their models for some time. As more codexes get released to for each edition they get less competitive as well. It all adds up.

**Frazzled**

Modquisition on.

Lets avoid the flaming please. Commentary or not is fine, but trolling for no purpose is unhelpful.

**TyraelVladinhurst**

hm maybe we'll get lucky (but i doubt it knowing GW!) and sisters of silence will be in the SOB codex

**Melissia**

It would be interesting for them to be there as an elites choice (similar to Legion of the Damned for Space Marines), but I doubt it.

**TyraelVladinhurst**

Melissia wrote:It would be interesting for them to be there as an elites choice (similar to Legion of the Damned for Space Marines), but I doubt it.

still it might be possible for that to happen, maybe have a special character to allow them as troops

**jmurph**

Not alot of news or rumors here.... more speculation and statements of personal preference.

Andrewm9: A common, but irrelevant argument. It doesn't matter why the numbers are what they are to GW. They don't like risking the costs iof updating for a line with poor sales, period. DE is good, because GW saw it as a huge risk, and it seems to be paying off. Sisters are in a similar boat, and my guess is that they wanted to see how a similarly situated army would do. So Sisters will probably get some more development. If DE falter, I can see Sisters getting shelved for a while.

I think the problem GW is also running into is finding a niche for these redone armies. It seems like GW wants each to have its own feel without getting superbogged down in tons of special rules. Again, DE is good because it seems to play very differently from other lists, but in a competitive way. Necrons will be kind of tough in this regard and their core mechanics are very similar to SM/CSM. Sisters pose some issues as they are kind of T3 SMs and have heavy theme overlap with Dh/Inq/Grey Knights and even Black Templars to some extent. Hopefully, they can find enough to give them a distinguishable style rather than just T3 Salamanders with a faith pioint gimmick.

**wolfshadow**

TBH, If they came out in plastic, I'd do a Sisters Army. They are just begging for some conversions. I'd prob only do a small force, maybe 1500 points worth. But even the metal models available now are attractive.

Loads of Charachter in the Sisters. And they have some great looking vehicles.

**DEATH89**

Oh well, if plastic sisters are that far off I'll have to console myself with DE and GK armies in the meantime, I just hope the new GK models (if the rumours are true about new GK's anyway) mesh well with my old metal ones, I don't really want 10 squads of various sorts to become less appealing to use as they don't fit in...

Still looks like my Cannoness and Seraphim will have to wait quite a while for their reinforcements.

**Temujin**

Sisters of Silence appear to have no post heresy fluff unless I'm very much mistaken, but it would seem a bit cheesy to me to stick them in a strictly Sororitas codex just because they're female. If they are still around ten thousand years after the heresy they are presumably affiliated to the Inquisition. I suppose the fluff could be squeezed to somehow shoehorn them into the Ecclesiarchy's hands, or the Inquisition element to the codex could remain a key focus. I guess I can't think of a better codex to put them in, but it would be a shame if the codex became 'Assorted Tenuously Related Women of the Imperium'. It might be doing them a better service fluff-wise to have them being wiped out defending the Emperor on Terra.

**TyraelVladinhurst**

Temujin wrote:Sisters of Silence appear to have no post heresy fluff unless I'm very much mistaken, but it would seem a bit cheesy to me to stick them in a strictly Sororitas codex just because they're female. If they are still around ten thousand years after the heresy they are presumably affiliated to the Inquisition. I suppose the fluff could be squeezed to somehow shoehorn them into the Ecclesiarchy's hands, or the Inquisition element to the codex could remain a key focus. I guess I can't think of a better codex to put them in, but it would be a shame if the codex became 'Assorted Tenuously Related Women of the Imperium'. It might be doing them a better service fluff-wise to have them being wiped out defending the Emperor on Terra.

it's not just because they are female it's because BOTH hunt down psykers

**aka_mythos**

Melissia wrote:Since the other thread is probably ages old by now and was off topic anyway:

From StraightSilver, in a conversation he had with Jes Goodwin

Hiya,

Yes the problem with the Sisters of Battle has been the cloth robe sleeves on the under side of their arms, their hair and also the script work on their shoulders.

The problem with the robes on their arms is that it can only be sculpted flowing in one direction, which means posing can be a problem.

This isn't such an issue with Sisters armed with Bolt Guns as the pose will be pretty much set, but when you get things like Seraphim or models armed with close combat weapons you would get a very limited number of poses. This is because if you had the arm held up high the robes may stick out in a gravity defying way, which would look very unnatural.

The hair is essentially the same thing. They want the new models to be much more dynamic, which would mean their hair would not be as static as the previous Sisters of Battle miniatures. This poses problems with posing as the hair and robes need to flow in the same direction, which again limits the amount of poses possible (sorry for the over use of the word pose there - couldn't think of another on! ).

The bit I didn't quite get the gist of was the shoulder plates. He said they wanted embossed and rolling scriptwork on the shoulder plates, and the way it was curving around the plates was presenting problems. I'm not sure in all honesty what that meant but it may be similar to the problems mentioned above or it might be the way the model is cast. It might be the fact that you are very limited in undercuts on a tool when producing plastic miniatures ( by tool I mean mold, but plastic molds are known as tools).

This is an I told the collective world so moment... for so long when threads about SoB being done in plastic came up these were what I said would be a problem.

On why the shoulder pads won't work for them is because unlike a rubber mold, a metal one for plastic allows no undercuts... and every letter and every little detail wrapped around that shoulder pad would create those undercuts. That's why GW's chapter specific shoulder pads, the detail doesn't wrap around more than few degrees but then have slopes to fill in the undercuts...

**TBD**

Melissia wrote:at least I can say that Sisters are beaten out only by Thunderhawks when it comes to requests for plastic models.

That is not true and you know it.

Stormtroopers, Hyve Tyrant, Grey Knights, plastic Ork Warboss kit, Greater Deamons, Thunderwolves, plastic Thunderfire Cannon, Chaos Dread, certain Tyranid codex options, Warhound, etc etc.

**Kurgash**

So wait..what's the news/rumors?

**TyraelVladinhurst**

Kurgash wrote:So wait..what's the news/rumors?

sisters are coming either late next year or early to mid 2012

**Kurgash**

Isn't that the conclusion we already came to when that guy posted the Jes Goodwin conversation a week or so back?

**warboss**

Melissia wrote:From StraightSilver, in a conversation he had with Jes Goodwin

Hiya,

Yes the problem with the Sisters of Battle has been the cloth robe sleeves on the under side of their arms, their hair and also the script work on their shoulders.

so... is he in effect saying that the only all-female army in 40k is so delayed because they haven't done their hair and can't decide what clothes to wear??? lol, apparently somethings don't change even 38,000 years later.

thanks for all the info, though. it's good to know that they're actually in the works even if its a long time off. i would have started WH/SOB when i got back into 40k as i wanted an army inbetween my marines and IG in terms of arms/armor/point cost but the models/codex were the same as when i stopped playing back in 3rd edition. instead, i picked up the tau and might get an update on them sooner. that will only leave me with dark angels as the army i complain about with an outdated codex! (at least until 6th edition when i can start again about IG and BA!)

**Temujin**

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
Temujin wrote:Sisters of Silence appear to have no post heresy fluff unless I'm very much mistaken, but it would seem a bit cheesy to me to stick them in a strictly Sororitas codex just because they're female. If they are still around ten thousand years after the heresy they are presumably affiliated to the Inquisition. I suppose the fluff could be squeezed to somehow shoehorn them into the Ecclesiarchy's hands, or the Inquisition element to the codex could remain a key focus. I guess I can't think of a better codex to put them in, but it would be a shame if the codex became 'Assorted Tenuously Related Women of the Imperium'. It might be doing them a better service fluff-wise to have them being wiped out defending the Emperor on Terra.

it's not just because they are female it's because BOTH hunt down psykers

Sure, but the Sisters of Silence predate the Ecclesiarchy and surely wouldn't be placed under the command of a mere Sororitas commander. If they're still around they would be more on the level of the Custodes, not just another tool of the Church. Even putting them under the control of an Ordos Hereticus Inquisitor would be require some awkward fluff massaging. I wouldn't like to see the Sisters of Silence become just another band of religious fanatics. They were supposed to have a more personal dedication to the Emperor. I'd sooner imagine them defending the Golden Throne from daemonic incursion just as they were during the heresy, independent of the religion that they would know full well the Emperor would not approve of. Some forces are best served by filing them under 'too cool for rules'.

The Ecclesiarchy could get some Blanks inspired by the legendary Sisters of Silence without butchering the existing fluff.

**JGrand**

I don't see why this conversation would suggest that Sisters are coming any time soon.

The rumblings have been for Grey Knights, Tau, and Necrons for next year. Even that seems like wishful thinking. I predict the rest of this thread will be Sisters whining and wish listing.

**catharsix**

Melissia wrote:

If rumours are correct we have Grey Knights Quarter 1, Flyers expansion Quarter 2 and Tau/Necrons (my money is on Tau as I know they have already completed many of the new plastics and that Necrons are getting the Dark Eldar treatment. In other words a rewrite which will take a while) in Quarter 4.

This doesn't rule out another 40K release next year, I just got the impression that it wouldn't be Sisters.

Seriously, we get the Space Pansies before we get Necrons? Haven't they already gotten several redux's since the Necrons' last release? Show the shiny metal robots some love GW, furchrissakes... :(

**Kurgash**

JGrand wrote:I don't see why this conversation would suggest that Sisters are coming any time soon. I predict the rest of this thread will be Sisters whining and wish listing.

+1

**Medium of Death**

catharsix wrote:
Seriously, we get the Space Pansies before we get Necrons? Haven't they already gotten several redux's since the Necrons' last release? Show the shiny metal robots some love GW, furchrissakes... :(

Dark Eldar turned out well, if 'crons are getting the same treatment won't it be worth the wait?
(NO I WANT THEM NOW!

)

Back to the thread, It's interesting to see that they have been having problems with the Sisters design. If the shoulders are going to be detailed won't they need to be much bigger than they currently are? Possible new re-design?

**Slinky**

Awful lot of supposition and wishful thinking in filling in the gaps in this to equal a SoB release...

**andrewm9**

Slinky wrote:Awful lot of supposition and wishful thinking in filling in the gaps in this to equal a SoB release...

No more so than people waiting for Dark Eldar did. Is it so bad really?

**TBD**

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:
Kurgash wrote:So wait..what's the news/rumors?

sisters are coming either late next year or early to mid 2012

Actually that is not what is says.

It says we shouldn't expect them before then, but it doesn't say how much later after they might maybe make an appearance.

Btw I think GW is using the robes as a convenient excuse (or one of several excuses) to not release them anytime soon, but still keep up the appearance that they are busy with them.