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Well I was wondering do you have a favorite choice vote and then leave comment please.

wyches are an awesome squad in CC able to be fairly killy and last a while against nasty death stars for their cost. They get a lot better with drugs and are one of the few DE units to have grenades.

warriors have been seriously gimped by their weapons and weapon choice.

Hellions are too easy to shoot to death

Wracks are good, they do a few thing really really well but they are not as versitile as wyches nor do they have plastic models waiting.

Not sure why people aren't choosing warriors more, they aren't bad. Stick 5 with a blaster in a venom and you have a good unit.

I prefer my wyches though. S3 is underwhelming, but drugs and power from pain makes up for that.

What about wyches loadout you guys have thoughts.

x9 Wyches w/ Razorflail, Hekatrix, Agonizer + Haemo w/ Liquifier in a Raider.

when they hop out they have FNP making them more survivable, the Haemo sits in the Raider and torches things.

Or if you want a designated Anti Walker squad get 10 /w 2 shardnets and haywire.

My personal favorit for troop choice is the wyches as well.
Warriors are good but in my experience I'll get more milage out of a unit of wyches then I will a unit of warriors.

Wracks look good but since they dont have a model I've never tried them.

Hellions fall apart to quickly with out the baron in my experience and since the baron can only be in once place at one time....

My load out on the wyches are X9 wyches with a set of hydra gauntlets, Heckatrix with an agonizer and a Haemon in a raider with either the liquifier gun or the shatter shard (usually liquifier). More or less the same a revackeys build, but the unit really is decent for its points IMHO.

Depends really.

I prefer to have 10 wyches with 2 gauntlets and haywires.
Throw them in a FF raider and your good to go.

Failing that, 8 wyches (1 gauntlet and haywires) with a agonizer hek and a skinman for the token in a FF raider.

However, if i could be bothered to convert venoms i would possibly go for 5 warriors with a blaster in a venom.

I love my wyches. My troops have downed things many times thier size w/ x2 Hydra gauntlets and an agonizer.
Assault Terminators? Khorne Berzerkers? Ork Boyz? all go down to their I6 might!

Yes, I do not run my wyches with a Haemonculus. I dislike Haemonculus, and honestly, the way one plays DE should stop their raiders from being shot out of the sky to begin with, and most things you will be fighting ignore FNP anyway. Why take Haemoncs when you can take an Archon or the Baron?

Brother-Thunder wrote:Why take Haemoncs when you can take an Archon or the Baron?

Haemos give them a pain token. Simple as that.

In Close combat you get 4++, 4+ FNP vs a ton.

Haemos are the best option with these guys still IMO. Even if the wyches dont do amazing, I've had a Haemo fry 75% of a marines squad with his liquifier.

revackey wrote:

Brother-Thunder wrote:Why take Haemoncs when you can take an Archon or the Baron?

Haemos give them a pain token. Simple as that.

In Close combat you get 4++, 4+ FNP vs a ton.

Haemos are the best option with these guys still IMO. Even if the wyches dont do amazing, I've had a Haemo fry 75% of a marines squad with his liquifier.

I use venoms for all my anti-infantry needs. And while FNP is great against say, a full squad of tactical marines, and grey hunters, I must ask, is FNP going to make a difference against a 30 man mob of orks? or 5 AT? Not really. What people will take FNP for is negated either by sheer weight of attacks, or by power weapons. I'd rather have the offensive power of an extra weapon and I6 model than the FNP that is not useful alot of the time.

Then again, my meta is rife with hordes and power weapons, so maybe I am wearing rose-colored glasses?

You said you like Wyches the most, my guess was you use them as your troops instead of warriors like I normally do. Against a 30 man mob of orks it will help tremendously. Besides, your DE, why wouldn't that be a 15 man mob by the time your wyches are there?

revackey wrote:You said you like Wyches the most, my guess was you use them as your troops instead of warriors like I normally do. Against a 30 man mob of orks it will help tremendously. Besides, your DE, why wouldn't that be a 15 man mob by the time your wyches are there?

Indeed, they take place as a troop alongside my two MSU warrior units for the venoms. Yes, that ork horde will be feeling the pain from shooting, which is why my guys don't need FNP if they are already decimated to assaultable status.

So you also play msu warriors how did you convert venoms does anyone have expirence with hellions?


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Also wracks

rovian wrote:So you also play msu warriors how did you convert venoms does anyone have expirence with hellions?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also wracks

Venoms get really expensive to build...you pretty much use the back of a raider and the front of an elder viper, and two matching sails
As for helions, models are awesome...but save them as beastmasters, they just can't survive ranged fire even with FNP, they are great against hordes and tieing up MEQ's till you can get incubi in there, but in terms of the global meta they aren't just good in a MEQ enviroment, but it does depend on your local meta though no-one in my local area really plays full mech, even in tournaments, it just gets to boring! Everyone likes to play mixed stuff I have a regular nid and powerblob guard player and helions do awesome against them!
As for wracks, some people will swear by them for taking objectives, but IMHO, DE arent about sitting on objectives, they are better at killing things, and when those things are dead, kill another thing, and when that's done, then you can go contest objectives :p
Personally I like a 3:1 ratio of wyches to warriors, preferably trueborn and troop wyches :p set them up right, and you can never go wrong!

Well for my venoms I've bought broken OOP raiders on Ebay (10 USD each)

removed front gunner and the whole cockpit along its pilot.

trimmed the cockpit só its just a chair (removing the Fins) and glued him upfront (where the gunner supposed to be). Get yourself two Heavy Weapons and glue them in whatever fashion suits you best.

Some Reaver bits later and i got myself a Venom, actually TWO Venoms!

To my mind this is really a competition between Wyches and Warriors. I never really build a list without both and they're both awesome.

However, I voted Wyches because though I think I could build competitive armies using only Wyches or Warriors, I am obligated to admit that starting at 1750 and upwards I'd have an easier time doing it with Wyches alone than Warriors alone.

They're both absolutely amazing and viable though.

Wyches are probably the best thanks to Haywire Grenades. Wracks are very underrated, though, and they work well in an MSU format (5 wracks and a liquifier for 60 pts).

Hellions don't really rate anything more than taking the one token unit if you buy the Baron, and even then not so sure. Just so exposed and frail, even if their damage potential is reasonable.

Warriors are ok. They are solid, thanks to the Splinter Rifle, but don't really have one build that I'm impressed by or consider "must have."

The only problem with Wracks is their lack of Duality.

None, absolutely NONE anti-tank gear.

Ok ok, Liquifiers can glance rear armor with AP1 (at the same time) could get a Wrecked result, but that's not nearly reliable enough to be called duality.

If you're gonna rely on Wracks, ignore the Duality rule and build your army as separate weapons each to fill a certain role. Kill Infantry, Kill Tanks, Kill MCs, Kill ICs and so on. In the end that's bad! Mostly because its an easily outmaneuverable army.

So you would advocate the MSu warrior tavitin?

rovian wrote:So you also play msu warriors how did you convert venoms does anyone have expirence with hellions?


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Also wracks

I just use Vypers. Since I will be starting an Eldar army fairly soon, and since Vypers are of similar size to Venoms, so I use those.

Wyches - awesome in CC
Warriors - great for popping tanks or static shooting
Wracks - great objective holders
Hellions - eh.... yeah

I prefer wyches

I prefer Hellions, are they the best? No, not a chance, they get shot too easily, but I do like their background, they are basically your unfriendly neighbourhood street-gang in the 41st millenium.

rovian wrote:So you would advocate the MSu warrior tavitin?

MSu warriors are nice but their duality is not nearly as good as wyches.

They're great on CC vs Horde and MEQ, Haywire weaponry are great for AT. They have both in great numbers, unlike Warriors.

I think it really depends on your Style, MSU warriors aren't only what you use when you use then, you have a venom, shooting 12 poisoned shots a turn, which is VERY nice.

I wouldn't say wyches are any better, I'd just argue that it depend on the roll you want to use your army for. I prefer wyches only because of their background.

rovian wrote: how did you convert venoms does?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also wracks

Venoms are easy, use vyper hulls, take off the gunner add splinter cannons and some DE crew(the hangers on from the raider kit)
While Vypers are expensive, they have been aroudn a while. You can buy them on ebay cheap.

Wracks are pretty easy too. I kitbashed flaggellants, DE warriros torsos, and DElf corsair arms. Went for naked heads from DE warriros. I added a few special bits from old Chaos sets for my liquifiers and haemoculi. They look awesome.

Wyches are very, very awesome. They need a pain token, because if they don't have one, they die incredabily easy to shooting.

I was however, delighted with how awesome warriors with pain tokens are. When your opponent finally manages to kill your wyches, He then realizes that he has to now kill an entire warrior unit with FNP.

However I like my wyches the best

I really like the Warriors just for the volume of shots they put out, seems like whatever the focus on tends to wither away.

My buddy plays D Eldar and wyches always tend to underwhelm me. I have only seen wracks once and they are tough as nails but past that I wasn't too impressed. Never have seen green gobli...I mean hellions.

*Edit: Spelling Error*

I'm a big fan of wyches, they tend to eviscerate weak units just fine, and can bog down and wear down more elite assault units. That being said, they really don't like having to fight large power armor units, so I tend to not send them in against full tac squads.

For a while I didn't really like kabalite warriors that much, everything I got out of them, I could get better and cheaper from min true born squads. But then I decided to run a 20 man blob with 2 splinter cannons... They got their first pain token pretty easy, and man they unleashed a bunch of shooting, and took quite a bit and didn't die very quickly (at end of game I still had 8 despite multiple turns of guard shooting at them, including battle cannons) 4+ cover, and 4+ FNP means they just last and last. The great part? It only cost 200 pts for the unit, which is a steal in my mind for what they can do. I'm even considering running another unit like that, 40 bodies is a lot without even using up all that much of my FOC or points.

I find that the Hellions are less forgiving to use. They have benefits, with some of their kit, but the playstyle doesn't work well for me. The wracks have a lot to argue with for a CC squad, but I just see the wyches as better with more options for the cost.

As a preference, I have a mix of Warriors and Wyches. I'm also a HUGE believer in the MSU and Venom approach, as it's really hard to argue with the amount of anti-personnell dice the venoms can throw out en-masse. The Wyches can take haywires, the warriors can pick up darklight, for me it's all about target saturation and flexibility. Typically I'll have 4 squads of Warriors and 2 wyches..

I find that making venoms is pretty simple. My gallery has 6 of the ones I've made up so far, with more to come. (I currently have 9 already modelled with 2 more on the workbench.) My philosophy is that the DE are a raiding force and will use whatever they take to their advantage. So all you need are bitz and a bit of creativity. Basically, strap guns, blades and a seat on any engine you can get your grubby little paws on. One that will be done soon is a Space Marine Landspeeder, with the bodies of the crew nailed to the hull... (a friend I play with often keeps on fielding Speeder squadrons and they keep getting shredded by turn2, might as well turn them into trophies.) Stripped down Eldar Falcons, Souped up Reaver jetbykes, Modded out Landspeeders, vypers, and tau pirahnae...

I don't see the Dark Eldar as the kind to use "Chapter approved" design specs.

hearne wrote:
I find that making venoms is pretty simple. My gallery has 6 of the ones I've made up so far, with more to come. (I currently have 9 already modelled with 2 more on the workbench.) My philosophy is that the DE are a raiding force and will use whatever they take to their advantage. So all you need are bitz and a bit of creativity. Basically, strap guns, blades and a seat on any engine you can get your grubby little paws on. One that will be done soon is a Space Marine Landspeeder, with the bodies of the crew nailed to the hull... (a friend I play with often keeps on fielding Speeder squadrons and they keep getting shredded by turn2, might as well turn them into trophies.) Stripped down Eldar Falcons, Souped up Reaver jetbykes, Modded out Landspeeders, vypers, and tau pirahnae...

I don't see the Dark Eldar as the kind to use "Chapter approved" design specs.

I also have 3 Vyper converted venoms now and 2 made from jetbikes. I find the best way to use the bikes is to try and lash 2 or more of them together and make one the driver and one a gunner. Each and ever vehicle in my army looks different though. Whether it be an old raider with new DL and crew or a new raider with old DL and crew or some random mix or match. I couldnt stand for the mto all look alike.


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notabot187 wrote:I'm a big fan of wyches, they tend to eviscerate weak units just fine, and can bog down and wear down more elite assault units. That being said, they really don't like having to fight large power armor units, so I tend to not send them in against full tac squads.

For a while I didn't really like kabalite warriors that much, everything I got out of them, I could get better and cheaper from min true born squads. But then I decided to run a 20 man blob with 2 splinter cannons... They got their first pain token pretty easy, and man they unleashed a bunch of shooting, and took quite a bit and didn't die very quickly (at end of game I still had 8 despite multiple turns of guard shooting at them, including battle cannons) 4+ cover, and 4+ FNP means they just last and last. The great part? It only cost 200 pts for the unit, which is a steal in my mind for what they can do. I'm even considering running another unit like that, 40 bodies is a lot without even using up all that much of my FOC or points.

most people dont take enough anti infantry. or if they do that anti infantry ends up being used against DE cardboard boxes. You can of course use this to your advantage but eventually it may bite you.

Also its easy to get pain tokens against guard, but against other armies it can be more difficult.