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As I've recently been trying to get my foot Guard list up and running, I've been thinking a lot about Leman Russes. With a living carpet of Guardsmen in front of them, they have to rely on Lascannons, Missile Launchers, Railguns and Dark Lances to shift them. Suddenly Russes start looking a lot better.

I've used the Demolisher and Executioner, and Hydras and Exterminators are basically the same soul in different bodies. I have also dabbled with the Eradicator. But the Punisher, Vanquisher, Punisher and standard LRBT are new to me, so I'm asking for some opinions on what people like the most.

My thoughts on each:

LRBT: long range, and "good" against most infantry and light vehicles. Effectiveness is largely dependent on opponent's skill, however.

Demolisher: Bullet magnet, short ranged, usually only gets off 1 or 2 shots before it's inevitably targeted by the opponent. Extremely powerful, though. Definitely one of my favorites.

Executioner: Again, a bullet magnet (theme). Again, extremely powerful. Also limited by opponent's skill (other theme).

Exterminator: A Hydra in a buffer body. Seems fine to me. I will be trying out 2 of these in my foot list soon.

Eradicator: Slightly worse than the LRBT in an all-comer list as it can't crack vehicles, but if you play against Eldar, Orks, Dark Eldar, etc. then it seems ok. Again, dependent on opponent's skill.

Vanquisher: Fairly cheap, but that doesn't make it any more attractive. I avoid this thing like the plague, but I'd like to hear thoughts on it.

Punisher: Lots of shots, oddly expensive, but for once, it doesn't care how good your opponent is; they are still taking at least 23 S5 shots to the face. Bad BS and AP hurt, but I am going to be trying this thing out.

Please let me know your thoughts on this!

LRBT Standard.
Cheap and pretty powerful.
The Vanquiser is generally regarded as overpriced AFAIK...

purplefood wrote:LRBT Standard.
Cheap and pretty powerful.
The Vanquiser is generally regarded as overpriced AFAIK...

Agreed on the Standard Leman Russ, there's a reason its the backbone of the Guard.

As for the Vanquisher, the one in my list serves as a deterrent to the usual TH/SS terminators rolling up in a Land Raider and butchering my guys, any thing with an AV in the open gets popped in short order.

It's only 155 base, if I remember correctly. Pretty terrible for a single shot weapon, but I wouldn't call it overpriced. Just bad.

odorofdeath wrote:It's only 155 base, if I remember correctly. Pretty terrible for a single shot weapon, but I wouldn't call it overpriced. Just bad.

I keep mine cheap, with only a hull mounted lascannon. (sometimes with Pask if i can spare the points.) It may only be my luck at rolling, but it's earned its keep in many a game.

I love just running one Vanq with a las-cannon and have it stalk around my backlines popping shots off at big scary things or transports

The executioner i think is a take all comers list with you give it two plasma cannon sponsons and a lascannon front mount

The basic makes necrons marines nurgle tyranids...honestly a good kit out makes anything cry and die

You cannot compare them, it depends on the effect they have on your overall list.

I love the vanquisher and the executioner

The executioner I find performs better than the leman russ tank getting on average 7-8 kills as opposed to the 4-6 with the battlecannon.

The vanquisher is fun, not the best, but still fun.

For me it's a toss-up between the Demolisher and Vanilla. I'll have to go with the Vanilla, at least in my list, since other things take the demolisher's role (Manticore for heavy AT, Plasmavets for AP2).

My most frequent opponent is a guard player who has 11 russes (I'm serious... 11). Most of the time he fields 3 LRBT with no upgrades. That's a wall of steel that will scare anyone. If there's a particular weakness in your army, try to use the russ to plug it, but if you want an all around good tank, I would argue that the LRBT is the best in the entire of 40k. Cheap, tough and reliable.

Fearspect wrote:You cannot compare them, it depends on the effect they have on your overall list.

Umm yes you can. Some of them are clearly specialized (like the Punisher...), whereas others can be good versus many different targets (LRBT, Executioner, Demolisher, etc).

In terms of what they bring to an IG list, I have to say Demolishers. If you want to slug it out at long range, you have Manticores, Hydras, and Vendettas.

I really love Demolishers with plasma sponsons for Anti-Terminator duty, and linebacking for my other units vs. Space Wolves. Missile launchers really do a number on AV12 vehicles, whereas AV14 Russes could care not care less. The nice thing is that they're a huge threat to 2+ sv units, T5 multiwound models, and AV14 vehicles. Against Deathwing, TWC + LF spam, Templar Wing, etc., the S8 AP3 plate isn't nearly as effective as the S10 AP2 pieplate when coupled with the ML-resistant AV14.

EmilCrane wrote:I love the vanquisher and the executioner

The executioner I find performs better than the leman russ tank getting on average 7-8 kills as opposed to the 4-6 with the battlecannon.

The vanquisher is fun, not the best, but still fun.

The executioner's potency greatly depends on your opponent's ability at keeping his stuff spread out. He can easily limit you to 5 kills max, and that's if you hit and wound with every shot and he fails every cover save.

Vanquisher is too expensive for a single-shot weapon.

Right, that's the thing, all russes that shoot some sort of blast weapon are highly dependent upon things like opponent skill in order to be effective. Once troops start spreading out, and once anything gets cover, their firepower effectiveness starts to drop, and in a hurry. This is especially bad for units that have a low firepower:cost ratio to begin with, like russes.

As such, to me, there are two classes of russes, those who use blast weapons of some sort (and stop working the wiser your opponent gets) and those which don't. Unfortunately, the "those which don't" pool is pretty shallow. You've got the punisher, which gets outshot against infantry by its points in lasguns, and you have the vanquisher, which I can actually see the point of sometimes, but it's role is pretty narrow. This leaves the exterminator, which, honestly, I think is actually the best of them.

On the one hand it's still pretty cheap, as far as russes go, and its multi-shot direct fire ends your opponent's input into how much damage you're allowed to do (outside of other universal things like cover). Of course, this tank also has a narrow role, and if there isn't something that you specifically need autocannons for that you also need them on an AV14 chassis for, then, honestly, there's not only no reason to take an exterminator, but little use to bringing russes at all.

I've tinkered with most russ types, and there was only one setup that got me close to being satisfied with how they preformed, and that was an exterminator with a hull lascannon and sponson bolters (HK missle as points allowed). With the autocannon, heavy bolters, and lascannon, the thing shreds the heck out of AV10 skimmers (at a huge points premium, but still...), while the tank puts out enough sheer volume of fire to handle hordie things (and, I'd note, terminators), with still enough gumption (especially with the lascannon) to reasonably threaten AV12.

An exterminator with heavy bolter sponsons and perhaps Pask in the turret can be extremely deadly, I am forced to agree.

The eradicator is handy in heavy terrain but the LRBT is the most versatile.

Vanilla or Demolisher for me, all purpose tanks. Maybe an exterminator if I dont feel like using static hydras.

Whoops I think I voted executioner

The main battle tank and the Demolisher are my favourite variants, though if I had to pick one it'd be the Demolisher. If you play enough against nids that put adrenal glands on their gants, you become VERY thankful for the rear AV11. The tank becomes impervious to anything in melee below STR5, and that's awesome. I always give'em the hull-mounted flamer too, to really dish out the hurt when you get up close and personal.

If I use a Demolisher, I just give it a hull heavy flamer and unleash it at the enemy. Sinking points into a vehicle that's moving close to the enemy (and therefore discarding a large portion of the AV advantage) doesn't sit well with me, so I keep it as a nice, cheap (relatively) distraction.

The executioner is most expensive, but also the most effecient, IMO. It's very good against power armor, monstrous creatures, and hordes, while staying decent against light vehicles.

Polonius wrote:The executioner is most expensive, but also the most effecient, IMO. It's very good against power armor, monstrous creatures, and hordes, while staying decent against light vehicles.

The Demolisher is handy for the S10, and depending on the rest of your army comp, you can swap Executioners for Demolishers and vice versa. Also, I didn't see the most powerful Russ on the Poll. The Primarch Leman Russ is hands down the best one.

I voted the Executioner, I love those Russes.

One thing I did want to add to the conversation though is while your opponents skill at spreading out can have a huge impact on the template Russes how you play can do the same. I'll sacrifice a Chimera if I think the target I could potentially eat is worth it. Terminators or Nob bikers having to group up if they charge in have often regretted it afterwards if I had a good roll with my Executioner, especially if they roll a 6 on the kill for the Chimera removing any cover they may be able to claim. Most opponents won't ignore the Chimera though and even if they do that often times gives you other advantages.

Omegus wrote:
The executioner's potency greatly depends on your opponent's ability at keeping his stuff spread out. He can easily limit you to 5 kills max, and that's if you hit and wound with every shot and he fails every cover save.

Vanquisher is too expensive for a single-shot weapon.

I find that my opponent doesn't always have the luxury of spreading out fully, unless I'm playing on a blank board.

As for the vanquisher, lolopinions

In the current msu mech meta I think the best Leman Russ Tank is none at all. Well the Primarch Leman Russ if you could actually take him.

Battle Tank - single str 8 shot isn't all that great vs vehicles esp small ones that you likely scatter off like rhinos. ap3 is often negated by cover and spreading out unless a transport just died.

Demolisher - The 24 inch range really bites you in the ass if you want to fire at center mass of a land raider your in terminator charge range. 24 is often too close to move and fire multimeltas. The AP2 is often negated by cover so you rather have the better range and multiple shots of a Manticore which has less AV but can just hide behind stuff for cover or fire indirect out of los.

Eradicator - pretty useless vs vehicles and not very good in the meq meta.

Executioner - very expensive and was great with Mystics for anti deepstrike but thats gone now. They are also good when infantry is bunched up when a vehicle is destroyed. However if there are only 5 dudes this isn't as good as when people actually took bigger squads and there was more chaos around that you needed to kill plague marines.

Exterminator - your paying a huge premium for av14 here. A Hydra costs half as much and is better cause it ignores skimmers moving fast cover saves.

Punisher - this horribly bad. costs alot. Lots of shots but with no ap it does nothing to vehicles and is poor vs infantry assuming they at least have a 4+ cover.

Vanquisher - too expensive for your one bs3 anti tank shot. Might as well take a Manticore costs about the same and you might get more shots out of it and it actually is good vs infantry too. Vanquishers need their pintle heavy stubber and ability to fire battle cannon shells.

Kirika wrote: Vanquishers need their pintle heavy stubber and ability to fire battle cannon shells.

This, a thousand times thus. Although I think you meant co-axial?

I disagree that blast weapons depend heavily on opponent skill. This may be the case for foot armies, but in a mech-heavy meta, it's actually quite the opposite.

When you destroy a vehicle, especially when you "explode" it, the occupants are forced into the footprint of that vehicle. This forced grouping makes the occupants particularly vulnerable for the next turn. In some cases, the threat of template weapons will force that unit to go to ground, forfeiting their next turn.



In this role, the AP2 Russ variants (Demolisher and Executioner[?]) really shine as cleanup vehicles. You've got melta vets, Vendettas, melta CCSs, and Hydras for destroying transports. Once the transports are cracked, you use the Demolisher or plasma boat to wipe the squad.

Vanilla LR is the best bang for the buck. If you want to provide survivability to specialists like Vanquishers or Executioners, just add one or two regular LR tanks. Instant extra armor and a few extra shots.

Stock version with minimum extras, hands down.

The Green Git wrote:Vanilla LR is the best bang for the buck. If you want to provide survivability to specialists like Vanquishers or Executioners, just add one or two regular LR tanks. Instant extra armor and a few extra shots.

This completely throws the firepower/point ratio out the window, and now glancing shots can destroy you. Yay!

There are only three worthy russes. The others have serious problems which should rule them out right away. I'm quite happy that my logic matched up with the rest of dakka dakkas on the votes

The LRBT is one of the best options of russ. Very versatile, a decent price tag, can put out tremendous firepower with sponsons. Has good range, can take out marines without an armour save and is a threat to all but the heavy enemy vehicles. Theres nothing to not like really. It will nearly always make its points back aslong as you use its firepower effectively.

The demolishers an awesome piece of kit. It allows you to reliably hold ground. Most opponants don't want to go near it and those that do suffer for it. It can hold gunlines, provide mobile fire support for infantry or be used to breach enemy lines. It's also pretty good at knocking out vehicles too. The only downside is the 24'' range but its survivable enough to get up close most games. I find it usually falls just short of making its points back but it does come very close. On the other hand though, its too vital for me to drop this beast from my list.

The executioner. I found this tank to be a let down from all the hype but its still a great tank. I like the fact it uses lots of small templates rather than one big one. It decreases the effectiveness of spreading out. Something your opponant will have to consider. Very expensive, I don't think I've ever got its points back but its a game winner. Nuff' Said.

Now for those you don't need to bother wasting your time with.

Vanquisher. Looks the part of a good tank hunter on paper but it performs poorly. A manticore is far more reliable and cheaper, even if it does need to be babied a little.

Exterminator. Not a bad tank but a Hydra puts out the same firepower at a longer range AND gets the trackers to take down skimmers. Oh, I should probably mention you can take two hydras to each Exterminator to double your output of firepower

Eradicator is useless against meq's in cover. The battle tank performs better and the cover thing is meant to be this tanks niche. A eradiator will deny a cover save but still allow the armour save of 3+ since it has ap 4. A battle cannon will deny an armour save but allow a cover save which is usually 4+. Its best targets are hordes in cover but its an expensive tank and you'd be better spending the points elsewhere.

Punisher. As Ailaros said, mathhammer dictates that this tank can be outshot by lasguns. So unless you want an infantry squad made of metal armour for some strange reason, leave it at home.