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This has been mentioned a few times by me at few places. I don't know why its hard for people to get past. Gamesworkshop retail price is their suggested price. Even LGS can sell items for 20% off and make huge profit on them, mine does this. Most online stores will sell items for up to 30% off and they still make profit as a retailer gets items for almost 50% of the retail cost.

I get tired of dealing with people who tell me to make an offer on an item they are selling that has been assembled and primed and get the answer "but the retail cost is x amount no way will I take 30% or more off the retail cost for the item". These same people relist their stuff for months and months and months unaware why its not selling. Maybe this will clue them in.


Example: Landraider Crusader Retail $66. I will get it for $53 +state tax from local shop. I can get it from an online dealer for $50 no tax free shipping. Both retailers paid about $30. I am all for supporting my local shop which I do buy most of my items for. Sometimes I like to get items I may not use regularly that someone is selling already assembled/primed/painted(usually) rather poorly. They will ask GW retail cost, even ones who likely bought theirs from an online dealer.

Not sure if this is just me in my years of buying and selling online. Just figured I would put this up to see what others feel or have dealt with.

Tyrius wrote:This has been mentioned a few times by me at few places. I don't know why its hard for people to get past. Gamesworkshop retail price is their suggested price. Even LGS can sell items for 20% off and make huge profit on them, mine does this. Most online stores will sell items for up to 30% off and they still make profit as a retailer gets items for almost 50% of the retail cost.

This is incorrect. You do not get 50% of retail cost. And a store that consistently sells at 20% off will go out of business, unless they don't pay their bills. On lines do not have the cost (usually) of a physical store, and have to make their money on quantity of sales. Please do not post falsified of why prices are what they are. On average if you sell a box for $20, if you offer 20% off, you might make $4 on it, before you pay wages, electricity, shipping, phone, water, sewage, rent, sales tax, income tax, dept of labour, dept of revenue. Credit card processing fees and prob a few other bills escaping my mind.

Margins are anywhere between 40-35% on most GW products and Direct order is something like 20%. Businesses can get away with this and still thrive if they have a large enough backing and most brick and mortar stores have online sales now.

Also.. If your store is only selling GW, it's probably not going to be in business for long with or without a discount. You need other sources of income like Magic, comics etc.

My local sells regularly at 15-20% off GW MSRP. It's still going strong, so i think your statement is a tad fallacious there too.

50% would be highly unlikely, but 15-20 % doesn't seem to break the bank.

How long have they been in business?


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And I said consistanly. It's minorly possible at 15% but I'd be surprised if the owner is making a solid wage.

Also, if they are adding something else, comics, magic and selling it at normal. It helps, but trust me, trying to sell at 20% is not a money maker.

Maybe this will clue them in.

I love how so far it seams everyone has missed your point, as they all argue about MSRP, retail and wholesale prices.

I get what you are saying though. I know people who just can't grasp that concept that a painted mini does not automatically mean it is suddenly worth more.

Some one else has built it. In the case of a complex model like a Land raider it is very likely they built it poorly. Often you may have to then dissemble it so you can paint it correctly. Just becuase they put thing together does not mean they have done you any favors.

Same goes for painted stuff. There are some gawd awful "pro-painted" things on flee-bay. So what if it is painted, I am now going to have to strip it down and repaint it to match my army.

People are entitled to sell their goods at whatever cost they see fit. Whether or not you can get a better deal for it elsewhere is irrelevant OP. There is no sense in starting a thread to complain about how people won't sell you their stuff at the price you want for it.

The local store Men At Arms Hobbies (been in business for 27 some odd years where a young Neal who started the Warstore used to go to for his wargame supplies) offers around 10-20% off on GW products.

know how you feel I just started a warriors of chaos army and it's rediculous what people want so I went with an online store not going to mention them butthey are Canadian so I'll support that but it's sad that iv been looking around and some of the stuff and it's sad what people want for assembled primed warriors :(

I don't have a local gw retailer where I live when I'm not at school but usually I buy from gw since te uys that workthere are pretty awesome and it's always fun to be there and I think it's fair to buy from there seeing how much time I spend there.

But bah on people selling for so expensive I see they want to get as much as they can out of it but most people just want too much.

First off, the margin is much worse than that. Both online retailer and store paid closer to $40 for that raider than $30. Wholesale is not 50%...as staff discount is 50% and wholesale price is worse than staff discount.

Second, assembling cost me time and effort, and I do things like trim moldlines, green stuff ill-fitting pieces, pin weak areas, and magnetize. I don't mind selling at a discount because I want to get rid of stuff, but in all honesty, the stuff I built is probably better than what most people build. And yet, despite the fact that I've put real effort into the model, it sells for less than retail. Personally, I have no problem with people that want a decent amount of money for their stuff, but really it's true price is whatever the market will bear.

If a store is selilng for 30% off, they are going to go out of business. Margin can be lower if you sell in bulk, as volume makes up the difference in lost revenue. For a gaming store though, a 20% discount generally doesn't mean 20% more sales...as their prices need to be closer to 25% to compete pricewise with online venues, but a brick and mortar place has higher cost. For the most part, it is rare to see any store sell at 30% off for an extended period and survive.

You can want whatever price you want for whatever reason you want, but I would remind you that's not how business works. What you're doing is essentially going into a movie theater and complaining that you could get the same popcorn at a supermarket...but it's not the same.

If you're selling used online and you're patient you WILL get a better price for your stuff. Now if you want to sell it fast, that's different.

My lgs has been in business for 14 years and sells for 20% off retail. I have seen the invoices as i'm fairly close to the owner and help him stock items sometimes. His cost from his distributor on some items are nearly 50% of the retail cost so he marks it up 30% more sells for 20% off retail and makes money. He has no issues paying his bills. I'm aware of the overhead a physical store has over an online this is not directed so much to the stores or online sellers selling items for their cost as it is to people selling items to me already assembled and painted and asking for an offer and feeling offended that they wont get MSRP for the item.

More so people with items that are NIB asking GW MSRP. They are not a retailer they have no overhead and likely didn't pay it themselves. This in combination to the "make me an offer" then feeling "offended" my offer is not what GW MSRP is. I know people will ask what they hope to get for it and this is as I said a "clue in" to why your trade/sell thread gets reposted for months and months with same stuff still there.

As OP points out, this thread is about second hand re-sellers expecting MSRP.

This is not a thread about buying/selling through retail.

Tyrius wrote:My lgs has been in business for 14 years and sells for 20% off retail. I have seen the invoices as i'm fairly close to the owner and help him stock items sometimes. His cost from his distributor on some items are nearly 50% of the retail cost so he marks it up 30% more there.

Can you send me a pm. With the name of that distributor? They sound great! though. I'd assume if you saw invoices, it was maybe PP.
I understand your frustrations on feebay. People have high expectations for their "pro-paints".

Especially since the 'pro painted' stuff generally looks worse than the stuff i was painting when i was 12.

Same with getting 2nd hand from bartertown or some folk at the Swap Shop. Just because you think the hot pink and lime green paint-scheme is awesome doesn't mean that the other person will, and they shouldn't have to pay more for it

Sergeant Horse wrote:

Tyrius wrote:My lgs has been in business for 14 years and sells for 20% off retail. I have seen the invoices as i'm fairly close to the owner and help him stock items sometimes. His cost from his distributor on some items are nearly 50% of the retail cost so he marks it up 30% more there.

Can you send me a pm. With the name of that distributor? They sound great! though. I'd assume if you saw invoices, it was maybe PP.
I understand your frustrations on feebay. People have high expectations for their "pro-paints".

Yeah, same here. Unless he's got a time machine to go back 15 years, he isn't getting GW at 50% off. Some things, yes, but not GW. From a distributor it's a max of 40% through Efigs and 35% through most others like Alliance and ACD.

As to your store discounting, that's an exception. He may own the building, be in an area with very cheap rent, or have some other factor going that lets him discount his items. In other words, discounting is costing him money, but he can survive anyway. For most stores, offerening a 20% discount across the board is tossing away nearly half your gross profit.

On the subject of people selling miniatures: They get to ask a certain price, you get to decide what to buy it for. Any frustration on your part is sort of silly, as you can just go find a cheaper model elsewhere. If you can't find a cheaper model elsewhere, that sort of proves that their price isn't too far off of good price.

I'm starting to think people can't read. Words like about and almost does not mean exactly.

One example I know for a fact was before last price hike on assault marines they were $24.75 retail the invoice for them was $12.50 he sold them for $19. Now thats not exactly 50% off but pretty close to it. I know the items were all variable amounts of % increases but having some items with that High of a mark up especially on a unit that armies will field 14 boxes worth is alot of profit.

Even though as I mentioned this is not about the stores selling them its about the guy who bought the assault marines online for $18 assembled them all painted them all then decided he didnt want them. He puts them up for sell and wants an offer. I offer him $15 for the 5 guys. His response is I would never take 40% off retail for the items they are just assembled and primed. When the better solution would be to put what you expect to get for them and realize that for $3 more they can be bought new. This exact example is not a real situation just an example of something I have dealt with frequently. I buy up lots and lots of models more often then not ones that need to be fixed/stripped/repaired and repainted. I have bought up entire armies this way and resold them.

The issue seems to go hand in hand with people asking for offers then getting upset they not getting retail cost for their item.

Agreed with OP. It's ridiculous how expensive used minis are these days.

It's also hilarious to see eBay shops sell for retail+shipping when the shop "next door" has 10% off and free shipping. How does the first one stay in business?

I sold my entire 40k collection for 50% retail (except a few tyranids missing parts).
I don't care how cheap someone can get a model online/at a local store/from ebay, the msrp set by the manufacturer is the only constant and should be the measuring stick.
The guy expecting above 80% for assault marines was just out of his mind, and anyone expecting similar results should get more acquainted with the market on used models.

Personally I don't care what people expect for minis, I know how much I will pay, and that's usually only about 50% retail for anything second hand. If I have to pay any more I'll just buy them new and I don't mind paying GW shop prices for the convienience.

Tyrius wrote:I'm starting to think people can't read. Words like about and almost does not mean exactly.

One example I know for a fact was before last price hike on assault marines they were $24.75 retail the invoice for them was $12.50 he sold them for $19. Now thats not exactly 50% off but pretty close to it. I know the items were all variable amounts of % increases but having some items with that High of a mark up especially on a unit that armies will field 14 boxes worth is alot of profit.

We know how to read - we just don't believe a store is getting minis from GW at a 50% discount.

I typically sell second hand stuff at 30% off for NIB, 40% off unpainted, unassembled, and 50%+ if assembled or in bad condition.

Once sold a ton of battle sisters at 70% off... after last year's price hike on them.

I don't think it is right to get upset with someone's asking price, although I think you do have a point that they should re-evaluate what they are asking for it if they have to keep re-listing it over and over.

That being said, from what I have seen it can be rather difficult to find good deals on eBay. One of the things that I find interesting is watching items just to see how high auctions will go; it always strikes me as odd when I see buyers paying more than what a new in box kit would have cost to buy a model that has (at best) an average assembly/paint job.

The good deals on ebay are getting harder to find. They're out there, but it often isn't worth the time you'd have to invest to find them.

Craigslist is even worse. I gave up on it.

Here is my Attitude and buying habits:

If I want to pay MSRP, I will buy it MSRP from a Brick and Mortar or GW directly to 'pay where I play'. I am not going to pay MSRP for a dude at his house even if it is sealed product. He has to beat MSRP.

I consider the 20% discounter the 'base' price something is worth. I *PAY* MSRP the same way I TIP 20% when I go out to eat. I like gaming at a location, I pay MSRP there.

Now, if I can buy brand-new product from a discounter for 20% off with great service and delivery... I am not sure I would pay MORE than the 20% discount price to a dude wanting a trade. He also is motivated to make a sale/trade so I expect a little more to incentivize me to make an immediate trade. If I was making an honest offer on someone who had NIB wrapped product or blister I would offer 30% off MSRP. If he doesn't like it, then I keep my money and he keeps his model, anything more than 30% off means I can just go buy it regular-like from 20-25% internet discounters.

As for stuff not shrinkwrapped... Like empty sprues, semi-assembled unpainted, or primed... I am always up for that stuff, but I expect a deal in case there are missing parks, unseen damages or things I have to deal with and the fact I am stuck with it if I am unhappy later. 50% off MSRP is as high as I go with that stuff.

Now when it comes out OOP or collector stuff, or stuff I REALLy want... then my need drives the value and I pay more.

Having been a collector of Baseball Cards, Magic The Gathering and Legend of the Five Rings; I have a really good grasp for 'resale'.

Beckett is the industry standard for Sports Cards pricing. For CCG's it used to be Scrye, but sadly they went belly up in the poor economic climate. Beckett has however picked up the slack for this market. My point being, these magazines provided an industry average for collectible card prices and this information is what dealers use as a base for their own resale price and collectors use as an established worth. To put it plainly, these magazines establish an MSRP for an industry that is incredibly subjective. Haggling is very common and accepted in this market.

When 'reselling' cards (i.e. collector to dealer) the dealer will usually only pay 30% to 40% of the cards listed value. For example: A MTG player leaving the game wants to sell his collection to the LGS... Scrye establishes a worth of that collection, but the LGS will only pay 30% to 40% of that worth. They'll then 'resell' the cards to other players for close to or at Scrye's listed price. Profit!

Models are very different in how they can be valued, but the principal remains the same. There is an established worth (GW's MSRP) and what it's resale value will be is subject to many, many, many different things. For example: The buyer may not like how you assembled them and the product is devalued to them, conversely should the paint job be superb the price may increase. In any event the item is no longer 'new' and will only hold a perceived value, but based on that MSRP. The seller will always have a higher perceived value of the item simply because they want to get as much as they can out of it. Sadly there are no real guidelines for this, but I try to apply the same system used for collectible cards.

In the end it's only going to be worth what a third party is willing to give you for it.

I feel your pain, dude. But at least sometimes it's good for a laugh.

When something is painted poorly I can see your point, but if its painted to a decent standard the only complaint is that it isn't painted the right color and then you aren't the target market. Paint, unless done poorly, should nearly always add a little bit of value provided its the proper scheme. How much i would look for comparable work from commission hobbyists. If its in the lower end but acceptable stuff I can turn out when asked then maybe a dollar or two per, but if they look like something GMM came out with then a lot more. Of course if its the wrong scheme or poorly done then you consider the amount of time its going to take to strip the models and repaint them.

$.02

Tyrius wrote:I'm starting to think people can't read. Words like about and almost does not mean exactly.

One example I know for a fact was before last price hike on assault marines they were $24.75 retail the invoice for them was $12.50 he sold them for $19. Now thats not exactly 50% off but pretty close to it. I know the items were all variable amounts of % increases but having some items with that High of a mark up especially on a unit that armies will field 14 boxes worth is alot of profit.

Wrong. You do not "know for a fact".

GW sells items for exactly a 45% discount to retailers. It is never a variable amount of %. This has been the case for over a decade.

My gaming store USED to get them at 60% of cost. They give prepay discounts on orders of 20% but switched GW discounts to only 10% since GW charged them as much as they did. It used to be a 20% discount for GW, which makes me think GW USED to do a 50% cost for my store, as their discount changed. Of course, the boss lied to me about everything else, so why can't this just be a lie about jacking peoples discounts that were promised.

About ebay..... I have been selling my 40k stuff for dirt cheap at least 50% off retail. I don't get very many bids and most of the stuff sells for original listing price.


For example: 6 assembled possessed CSM, newest plastics. Start price $9.99 shipping $5 dollars. Sold for $9.99

I sold 4, count them 4! Ten man squads of eldar guardians with accompanying weapons platform.
Start price: $9.99 free shipping. 3 sold together for $32.98..... That is $90 dollars worth of minis for 1/3 the price and nobody wanted them! One guy made off with a deal. No big deal to me because 1-I got my use out of them and 2- they are no longer cluttering my shelf.

The only differnces I have seen for painted figures is that they are a guaruntee sale. Meaning if the figures are painted someone will bid on them, while the unpainted figures can be relisted a few times before they sell.