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Just an issue that came up and wondering what the dakkites feel about it.

Large flyers like valkries and vendettas and may some others to a lesser degree come on board and move 6" on. This means that part of the model is going to be off board.

1. Is this legal by the rules?
2. If it is legal, does this mean in subsequent rounds I can avoid targetability by always keeping the base on the board but hugging the edge and keeping the minimum of a large flyer targettable.

Personally, my feeling is too bad so sad but you have a large model and you have to deal with it and keep it all on board. And perhaps that may mean a forced movement of greater than 6" and thus not the ability to unload all weapon systems.

What do you think?

BTW the "semi-official" ruling from GW was that the base is what counts and only if a weapon system (say a rocket pod on a valkrie) that is currently off board cannot shoot.

Well its either you move greater than 6" to get on the board or you move 6" on and not make it completely on thus destroying your own unit. The choice is yours and yours alone.

Have a check of the FAQ, which confirms that any unit which fails to make it completely onto the board is destroyed

So if you choose to move your model partly onto the board it is destroyed.

What they said. And, those units aren't flyers. They're skimmers on large oval bases.

Edit: I was wrong. You have to move all the way on including the hull.

So as long as the base is completely on the board, the vehicle is also not destroyed?

geordie09 wrote:So as long as the base is completely on the board, the vehicle is also not destroyed?

No.

The base is used for determining if the vehicle is on difficult terrain or models. To determine if it is on the board, it's both the base and the model itself.

Move 6" on and the Valk is destroyed.

Akroma06 wrote:All that matters for things on the flying stand is the base. It's in the FAQ:
Q: What part of a skimmer on a large oval flying base
is used to determine if it is in/on terrain or if it is on
friendly or enemy models? (p71)
A: Just the base itself.

Otherwise while part of the vehicle is off the board it is still targetable as long as it is hull. So just because its hanging off the edge doesn't mean it is magicaly out of LOS.

Terrain /= "off the board", youre conflating two very different things there

If any part of your model is off the board when you ve moved on from Reserves, youre destroyed.

So if unit comes from reserve.. it has to be able to get all bases/hull to the board and so units coming from reserve always counting as moving in purpose for firing heavy weapons or rapid fire weapons?

Yes. I believe (don't have my books at work) that it says that in the rules

The rear wings are hull and a vehicle occupies the space of its hull. If that hull is beyond the edge of the playing area, it is not 'on the board' and is destroyed.

It is clear cut and simple.

-cgmckenzie

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Akroma06 wrote:All that matters for things on the flying stand is the base. It's in the FAQ:
Q: What part of a skimmer on a large oval flying base
is used to determine if it is in/on terrain or if it is on
friendly or enemy models? (p71)
A: Just the base itself.

Otherwise while part of the vehicle is off the board it is still targetable as long as it is hull. So just because its hanging off the edge doesn't mean it is magicaly out of LOS.

Terrain /= "off the board", youre conflating two very different things there

If any part of your model is off the board when you ve moved on from Reserves, youre destroyed.

I could have sworn I saw it in the faq, and thought I grabbed the wrong one, but since I can't find it I must say I was wrong...

Edited previous post so no one reads it and messes up.

Raza` wrote:So if unit comes from reserve.. it has to be able to get all bases/hull to the board and so units coming from reserve always counting as moving in purpose for firing heavy weapons or rapid fire weapons?

Yes - read the reserve rules, and note you must MOVE to get on the board. You dont just magically appear there.

Iwould say just the base. that is what cou8nts foir large vehicles on flyer bases, eg, Valkeries, Vendettas, Stormravens.

@Akroma

The INAT FaQ, at the top of this page, is what says the whole model must be on.


What would all of youi guys say about Baneblades moving on from reserve. The thing is longer than its 6" move, so it counldn't possibly move on from reserve without cheating or dieing, as you guys seem to suggest that i
f it can't get on, it is dead.


@ Raza

Vehciles count as stationary for Rapid Fire nad Heavy weapons. So a Bolter monuted on a Rhino would always gety to fire 1 shot at 24" or rapid fire. A space marine would have to rapid fire.

Right My point was kinda the opposite. As for the Baneblade. That is apocalypse and alot of apoc stuff breaks the rules. Typically we just houserule it and say that it can hang off the edge but is still targetable by say a blast weapon.

In fact almost all super-heavys/gargantuan creatures are longer than 6". If they start in reserve, they would never be able to be used.

Long story short, a Vendetta will have to move on over 6" from Reserve, meaning it will never be able to fire all 3 lascannons from Reserve.

Deadshot wrote:I would say just the base. That is what counts foir large vehicles on flyer bases, Eg. Valkeries, Vendettas, Stormravens.

@Akroma

The INAT FaQ, at the top of this page, is what says the whole model must be on.
The GW FAQ says this as well
The GW FAQ says this as well
@ Raza

Vehciles count as stationary for Rapid Fire nad Heavy weapons. So a Bolter monuted on a Rhino would always gety to fire 1 shot at 24" or rapid fire. A space marine would have to rapid fire.

Note: I added the yellow/blue above
Note: I added the yellow/blue above

first off, the Hull needs to be on the table or the vehicle is destroyed. So it is not just the base.

For clarity you do not rapid fire a bolter.

Rapid fire is a type of weapon, just like a lascannon is Heavy 1, you wouldn't heavy a Lascannon would you?

Call it 'Double Tap' to reduce confusion.

Could you use yellow next time please? Blue is hard to read.

Deadshot wrote:Iwould say just the base. that is what cou8nts foir large vehicles on flyer bases, eg, Valkeries, Vendettas, Stormravens.

Wrong. The base only counts for determining if it is in difficult terrain/on top of models, assaulting them, or disembarking/embarking models. Otherwise it is treated the same as any other skimmer which still requires that the hull be entirely on the board.

The INAT FaQ, at the top of this page, is what says the whole model must be on.

So does the GW FAQ.

What would all of youi guys say about Baneblades moving on from reserve. The thing is longer than its 6" move, so it counldn't possibly move on from reserve without cheating or dieing, as you guys seem to suggest that if it can't get on, it is dead.

Yup

Deadshot wrote:Could you use yellow next time please? Blue is hard to read.

Blue is easy to read and yellow nearly impossible if you're using the workplace-safe theme.

I suggest Red.

So, if a guy can't fit the Baneblade on the board at all, because of models or impassable terrain, and absolutely had to put it in reserve, would automatically lose it, if you had your way, because it couldn't comeon fully?

Grakmar wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Could you use yellow next time please? Blue is hard to read.

Blue is easy to read and yellow nearly impossible if you're using the workplace-safe theme.

I suggest Red.

Fixed with yellow and blue so everyone can read it.

I do not like to use red, because that is what the mods generally use to add notes and such to peoples posts.

Deadshot wrote:So, if a guy can't fit the Baneblade on the board at all, because of models or impassable terrain, and absolutely had to put it in reserve, would automatically lose it, if you had your way, because it couldn't comeon fully?

Strict answer, yes.

Real answer, no, since playing Apoc requires a fair bit of houserules, just make up a rule that allows it to come on the board, like it must move onto the board at the first available moment. so 6 inches the first turn it arrives, then another 4 or so to make sure it is fully onto the board in its next turn.

Thanks.

DeathReaper wrote:

Grakmar wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Could you use yellow next time please? Blue is hard to read.

Blue is easy to read and yellow nearly impossible if you're using the workplace-safe theme.

I suggest Red.

Fixed with yellow.

I do not like to use red, because that is what the mods generally use to add notes and such to peoples posts.

Yeah, now I can't read your text without highlighting it. Perhaps orange would make everyone happy.

Why do we all not just make the text bigger or bopld or something?

Deadshot wrote:So, if a guy can't fit the Baneblade on the board at all, because of models or impassable terrain, and absolutely had to put it in reserve, would automatically lose it, if you had your way, because it couldn't comeon fully?

From the GW FAQ:

Games Workshop wrote:. . .if the tank is forced to
stop for any reason before the entire vehicle is on the
board then the vehicle, and any embarked units, count
as destroyed and are removed from play.

So is there a diference between a wing and a tailfin?

Sometimes GW be damned with their rulings.

The only place you may be able to move 6" and be completely on is the corner move on 6 pivot your butt end into the corner, you may than fit. I'm unsure as I've sold off my Vendettas.

The rear wings are structural and important to the flight of the valkyries just as much as the main wings, so I insist on them being hull when I play with or against them(I do run guard on occasion). Calling it a tail allows people to start claiming that it falls into decorative features, which is wrong.

-cgmckenzie

Just play with the Pacific Mauraders. They feel that to not allow a person to play their models would be wrong. "Those vehicles are expensive" was what I was told by the TO when I sited the FAQ. They simply ruled that the base was to be used for all measuring purposes, except firing.
Looking forward to missing the Broadside Bash this year.