Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Panzerboy26 wrote:So all I need to do for my Vendetta conversion is significantly cut back the tail in order to be able to move on 6" and fire all my lascannons?

Bit of a pain, but sure.

Bit of modeling for advantage, but sure?

Well, I'd refuse to play you, and a TO would probably count the model out... so have fun with your dudes!

How is it modeling for advantage?

There is no Vendetta model. Any model I make will be a conversion. Whose to say that it's tails aren't shorter?

If people are going to rules lawyer that my plane is 'too big' to move 'only' 6 inches onto the table without destroying itself, then I'm sure as heck going to rules lawyer right back.

The vendetta is a variant of the Valkyrie. They use the same hull. Much like the lemur Russ variants. Significantly altering the tail section of said to allow a 6" move IS modeling for advantage.

As for fourth point, yea disembarking and being over dangerous / difficult terrain. Still does not apply to board edge though.

What's the problem with moving 12" and firing one gun on your arrival turn? Its still a 12" moving twin linked Lazcannon. If you want to fire 3 on your first turn, then deploy it on the field. Everyone else who reserves transports or tanks deals with the same issue! Why should imperial skimmers get anything diffrent?

DarthSpader wrote:The vendetta is a variant of the Valkyrie. They use the same hull. Much like the lemur Russ variants. Significantly altering the tail section of said to allow a 6" move IS modeling for advantage.

As for fourth point, yea disembarking and being over dangerous / difficult terrain. Still does not apply to board edge though.

What's the problem with moving 12" and firing one gun on your arrival turn? Its still a 12" moving twin linked Lazcannon. If you want to fire 3 on your first turn, then deploy it on the field. Everyone else who reserves transports or tanks deals with the same issue! Why should imperial skimmers get anything diffrent?

And where are the rules that state that a Vendetta isn't a Vendetta if it's hull is based on a modified Valkyrie hull? Can you show me in a rule book where it specifically lists this situation?

There is no official model for a Vendetta. You can assume it has the same hull as a Vendetta, but that doesn't make it a fact. Until there's an official Vendetta kit released, we'll never know.

Yes, I am aware of how asinine the above sentence is. It's exactly as asinine as the argument that Vendettas can't move onto the table and fire all three lascannons. Realistically, the reason for it is a stupid game-ism that involves multiple FAQ interpretations, and generally isn't something people would spot at all. While that part on the Vendetta is 'technically' correct, it is also 'technically' correct that I can modify my Vendetta any way I choose without it 'technically' being modeling for advantage, because I have no 'official' model to base it from.

I find this whole thread very amusing. It is easy to see who plays with and who plays against a Vendetta. Personally, I am up to four of them but only intend on using them in Apocalypse games (where they are flyers not skimmers) Anyway my two cents are that I have no problem playing against someone who wishes to fire all three lascannons the turn it comes in. Yes I see how the rules would suggest this is not possible, but at the same time I remember this is a game and I am here to have fun. This game has way too many small instances of bad worded rules and somewhat confused interpretations. It is easy to get into a discussion every time your opponent does anything. In the end it leads to little playing and a lot of arguing. This is why GW tells us to roll off or get a TO.

Just my two cents, you guys can resume the argument, and please accept my apology for this interruption.

Panzerboy26 wrote:

DarthSpader wrote:The vendetta is a variant of the Valkyrie. They use the same hull. Much like the lemur Russ variants. Significantly altering the tail section of said to allow a 6" move IS modeling for advantage.

As for fourth point, yea disembarking and being over dangerous / difficult terrain. Still does not apply to board edge though.

What's the problem with moving 12" and firing one gun on your arrival turn? Its still a 12" moving twin linked Lazcannon. If you want to fire 3 on your first turn, then deploy it on the field. Everyone else who reserves transports or tanks deals with the same issue! Why should imperial skimmers get anything diffrent?

And where are the rules that state that a Vendetta isn't a Vendetta if it's hull is based on a modified Valkyrie hull? Can you show me in a rule book where it specifically lists this situation?

There is no official model for a Vendetta. You can assume it has the same hull as a Vendetta, but that doesn't make it a fact. Until there's an official Vendetta kit released, we'll never know.

Yes, I am aware of how asinine the above sentence is. It's exactly as asinine as the argument that Vendettas can't move onto the table and fire all three lascannons. Realistically, the reason for it is a stupid game-ism that involves multiple FAQ interpretations, and generally isn't something people would spot at all. While that part on the Vendetta is 'technically' correct, it is also 'technically' correct that I can modify my Vendetta any way I choose without it 'technically' being modeling for advantage, because I have no 'official' model to base it from.

Actually no, modelling for advantage is whatever the TO deem was such. It may be a Lascannon that's a 1/4" too long or a Razorback turret thats placed with the "hole" up front. I find it as stupid as you do, however you'd be cutting off part of the hull shrinking down the body of a vehicle (making it easier/possible for blast weapons to miss) not to mention the only drawback the Vendetta has the has to move over 6" to get onto the board. It's a drawback deal with it, so what your horribly underpriced overperforming space plane can't shoot all 3 lascannons when it arrives from reserves ..

panzer, check page 56 of your IG codex. second paragraph top right section of the page.

here it is in case you cant find it

"Vendetta Gunship
the valkyrie can be outfitted with a wide variety of weapon payloads, one of which is dubbed the vendetta. multiple lazcannon hardpoints allow the vendetta to function as a dedicated gunship, often formed into roving search-and-destroy wings that hunt enemy battle tank formations."

that pretty much indicates that the vendetta is a valk, simply with diffrent weapons. if the vendetta was a diffrent hull or diffrent vehicle it would have a diffrent entry, not simply a subsection on another vehicle.

changing your model to reduce its length and allow it to move on and fire, outside its above mentioned rules, IS modelling for advantage. the simple truth is this: you can move it on short and risk players calling you on this and the vehicle is either removed or moved on untill its not overhanging the table edge. some players will let it go, others wont. personally i won't and i explain this to enemy opponent brinigng said vehicle BEFORE the game. alternatly just move the thing on or deepstrike it like everyone else.

unless you can cite specific rules in a book that allow you to move your gunship on so it overhangs the board, or otherwise allows models to exist half on and half off the table edge? - and no the oval base ONLY applies when determining if the vehicle is in terrain and required to make a DT check, assaulting the vehicle or disembarking.

if you argue the oval base = hull size, then you measure movements from it, measure weapons to and from it, LOS etc. since the BRB section on vehicles very CLEARLY contradicts that, and actually even explains oval bases... (either BRB or FAQ) then i guess thats not an option.

Good lukc with modelling for advantage

Also there is an OFFICIAL conversion kit (as in, produced by FW, owned by GW) which only contains lascannon. That, plus the quote from the codex, proves your "interpretation' wrong.
It isnt rules lawyering to asking you to move your model all the way onto the board.

I won't ask him to move onto the board. I'll just call a judge over after movement, before shooting to have his model removed.

I won't go that far. I would make it clear he's required to move onto the board fully, then measure the move. If he's overhanging the edge I'll give him a chance to complete the move and bring his unit on, or face the fact it's getting remove from the game. Any further dispute brings over the TO or other authority. If friendly game then point out the rules and hope the argument ends. In friendly games tho good to make your posistion clear before the game.